SPEAKER_00: Well, welcome.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here.
SPEAKER_00: We're winding down, by the way.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it may not seem this way, but we're going to spend the next five weeks on Revelation.
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of time.
SPEAKER_00: And you may say, boy, we could have just done that in one, but I'll let you say that next week.
SPEAKER_00: But here we are with James before we go through.
SPEAKER_00: I do want to tell you a couple of things.
SPEAKER_00: This actually shows up last in Martin Luther's translation of the Bible from the Vulgate into, well, he he he used Greek and Hebrew, but um into German.
SPEAKER_00: So in Luther's German translation, James comes last because he said it's a very straw-like epistle.
SPEAKER_00: He almost wished it weren't in the Bible at all.
SPEAKER_00: So controversy in James, and it's true that in the Council of Chalcedon in 381, that James barely made it into the canon.
SPEAKER_00: It was one of those books on the fringe, like Shepherd of Hermes.
SPEAKER_00: Shepherd of Hermes didn't make it, James did.
SPEAKER_04: Why not?
SPEAKER_00: Why did it barely why didn't Shepherd of Hermes make it?
SPEAKER_04: I mean this is.
SPEAKER_00: Again, remember remember remember how the criterion for criteria for doing it has to have apostolic authorship.
SPEAKER_00: Shepherd of Hermes didn't, uh hey, James, brother Jesus, saw Jesus, so apostolic, okay, that's that's fair, um, had to be widely distributed, uh, okay, and had to be coherent with everything else.
SPEAKER_00: And depending on how we choose to read the book, it could be, as he said, and I hate to use the word like faith and works, because I just screwed up hearing that, like, to the point I want to throw up, but um you could read this book in such a way as to hear it privileging action over I don't want to say belief, but like trust, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00: So I think and and Luther sure believed that, and remember that Luther um was very, very tightly wound.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he went to confession every time he did anything, to the point his confessor was like, let it go, it's okay, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Um because and Luther's big worry was was he ever sorry enough?
SPEAKER_00: He was sorry for what he did, but was he sorry enough that God would forgive him?
SPEAKER_00: And so he felt like the answer is no, you can never be sorry enough, you don't have to.
SPEAKER_00: So when he reads a book like this, I think it stirs up for him some of his own personality embedded foibles, if if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00: Um that's part of the the little bit of history.
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, two of our seven sacraments are are pretty well rooted in James.
SPEAKER_00: Confess your sins, and is anyone sick, let the elders anoint them with oil, so that's unction.
SPEAKER_00: Um you didn't have Jesus not going around anointing anybody with oil, and there's no confession going on with with Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: So two of the seven show up here almost exclusively.
SPEAKER_00: That's maybe helpful to know.
SPEAKER_04: The research that I found was that uh that it wasn't written by James, the brother of Jesus, or James the disciple.
SPEAKER_04: Um reason that it probably wasn't, but because they didn't know how to read or write, and that it would probably happen to go on Aramaic.
SPEAKER_04: And uh it also describes a level of organization in the community um that it addresses it would have had to take uh uh several generations to develop.
SPEAKER_04: So they really think that this was written between 75 and 120 common era.
SPEAKER_00: I I mean I I think all that's probably fine.
SPEAKER_00: I would say it's real controversial what language James spoke and whether or not he knew Greek.
SPEAKER_00: There's controversy because the area of the Galilee had Sephoris, which was a a Greek um as first language city, and artisans and day laborers from Nazareth, which was like a tiny village, maybe were working there.
SPEAKER_00: So we I mean we don't know.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus himself may have known some Greek.
SPEAKER_00: Um, nobody I've never heard anybody say James, the James the Apostle, like John's brother, because he dies within a couple years of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: So there just wouldn't have been time for him to write it.
SPEAKER_00: As with all of our authors, um, you know, authorship is imputed, not signed off on.
SPEAKER_00: There's no way that the disciple John wrote the Gospel of John.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's just I mean, he would have been a hundred years old.
SPEAKER_00: So what we normally think is that John's school wrote it, and I think it's very fair actually to think that James, the brother of Jesus, if not dictated, but his school, his followers may have written this because it has some very um I don't want to say Jewish, it's very Pharisaical.
SPEAKER_00: We usually think of that as a bad thing.
SPEAKER_00: A little more explanation.
SPEAKER_00: So remember, Jesus has got brothers.
SPEAKER_00: We didn't know about sisters, but he definitely has brothers, and they're not cousins.
SPEAKER_00: So if you ever hear this bit from the Roman Catholic Church, sorry, it's not put down that they're cousins, it's that's just patently false.
SPEAKER_00: He has brothers.
SPEAKER_00: So James is his biological brother.
SPEAKER_00: Of course, that shouldn't be threatening to anybody because you know the story sort of says Joseph's not his dad, so James is really just his half-brother.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: Um his half-brother James is called James the Just, and he does have this little um nickname, which is old camel knees, because he spent so much time praying at the Jerusalem Temple on his knees that they became well, calloused and they looked like a camel.
SPEAKER_00: So if you've seen camels' knees, I mean they're not attractive things.
SPEAKER_00: Um so James actually goes on, you can read about this in Acts, not to become an important figure.
SPEAKER_00: He is the leader of the Jerusalem church, which is the mother ship, if if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00: So when Paul wants to include the Gentiles, ultimately it's going to be James when you read the book of Acts, this James, who is going to make that decision.
SPEAKER_00: He decides in favor of it, but he doesn't say anything goes.
SPEAKER_00: When you read Acts, he says, restrain from sexual immorality and don't eat any blood.
SPEAKER_00: Now, that blood concern is very Jewish.
SPEAKER_00: So he lets circumcision go, but he doesn't let consumption of blood go.
SPEAKER_00: I said Pharisaical because remember that the Sadducees were the people who practiced their faith at the temple and went home.
SPEAKER_00: The Pharisees were the people who were looking to involve their everyday living to have that come from their faith, so that there was not just a Sunday ethic, but an everyday of the week ethic.
SPEAKER_00: The Pharisees are ultimately the ones we think that develop the 617 commands, the mitzvot, which means commandment, right?
SPEAKER_00: You're a bar mitzvah when you're a son of the commandment.
SPEAKER_00: They're the ones who develop those rules, they extrapolate them from the Torah.
SPEAKER_00: The Torah doesn't say, here are the 617 things you must do.
SPEAKER_00: They do that so that you can live an ethical life.
SPEAKER_00: So here's James in that bit saying, here's how you live an ethical life, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_06: Having been raised as a Catholic in at this age, and at that time, confession was important.
SPEAKER_06: You went to confession once a month.
SPEAKER_06: I mean, first Friday of every month, and and there were the you had a list of whether you did this or that or the other, and we would all line up.
SPEAKER_06: And Vatican II released and allowed a lot of less guilt I can remember as a child.
SPEAKER_06: And it sounds foolish that you lay in a bad brain because you say, I did this, I did this, I did this other thing.
SPEAKER_06: Um and so confession was so much a center, and it doesn't seem it's not as critical anymore, or according to the rules of the church.
SPEAKER_06: But somehow there's got to be a medium in between in terms of paying attention to your actions.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I and I think this is a really helpful to think about when we think about the sacrament that we no longer call confession, we now call reconciliation.
SPEAKER_00: And that's interesting in this.
SPEAKER_00: You know, as a Baptist, we were we, I mean, at least my own experience was that we were supposed to confess everything to God.
SPEAKER_00: And you had you had to do that.
SPEAKER_00: But James says confess your sins one to another.
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that interesting?
SPEAKER_00: One to another.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where the idea that people actually make a physical representation of God when we hear that correctly and when we represent God correctly.
SPEAKER_00: And I I would tell you, I've heard five confessions in my ordained ministry.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I do that face to face, not in a booth.
SPEAKER_00: And the truth is, you sort of know before you come in what I'm going to say, which is God forgives you.
SPEAKER_00: That's not at stake.
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to hear your confession and say, oh my god, you are terrible.
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
SPEAKER_00: You're going to hell, so you may as well enjoy yourself.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a prescribed script, and it's the same in church.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, actually, we do it every Sunday in the liturgy, but we don't do it one to another.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why we have this extra opportunity called reconciliation.
SPEAKER_00: We do it face to face as a reminder that we're mutual human beings.
SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: I've always wondered what would happen if we put a confessional in our church.
SPEAKER_00: Would I sit in there for two hours by myself, or would anybody come?
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I actually just I'm sort of curious.
SPEAKER_00: And if people came, would they expect me to prescribe penance to them, or would they just want to say what they're worried about, and I can say, listen, God's not worried about that, but don't keep doing it.
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_06: My more most recent experience, and I'm not sure exactly how the Episcopal Church does it, but with the Catholic Church, a couple of times a year, there'll be ten priests spread out, and and people just stand in line, and and and it's it's a kind of ritual because you can say just about everything you want to say, and they will, I think, pretty much say the same thing back and bless you, and you leave feeling do you get penance?
SPEAKER_06: Do they tell you to say so many are uh sometimes, but it's nothing, it's not go say ten Hail Marys and 12 hour fathers or go for hell.
SPEAKER_00: And drink some holy water.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, but it's it's more, but my personal experience, and I don't know how Tim, it's been more an uh a personal reaffirmation.
SPEAKER_06: You are a child of God, yeah.
SPEAKER_06: And you're you are you're right in life, and and God bless you, and you know, thank you for coming in, not like that, but do you know what to say?
SPEAKER_06: But that's so we do have it's like getting a counseling session, kind of we go, we go, okay, it's out there in the open, another human being knows that I'm this common person, and um I think that's why we do it in the Episcopal Church face to face, and we do it by appointment.
SPEAKER_00: And I will tell you, when you have to make an appointment to do it, fewer people do it than when you're just available.
SPEAKER_00: I'm available these hours, you come show up.
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and and actually, and my experience has been you can do it both ways.
SPEAKER_06: I have done it by appointment.
SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah, it was both yeah, and it was before I was having some major surgery, and and it was more like okay, if I'm gonna die on a hospital bed, I want to be, you know, that yeah, and I did a personal and I made an appointment.
SPEAKER_06: So they'll do it either way.
SPEAKER_00: And huh, maybe next Lent during Sunday morning before church, we'll just have open time for confession.
SPEAKER_00: That'd be interesting to see if anybody did it.
SPEAKER_00: Because we are all gonna die someday.
SPEAKER_00: But the point of confession, I think, is not so you're not in a state of sin before you die, it's so that you're not living in a state of sin.
SPEAKER_06: And it's and it's what to me, it it feels there's a sense of um connection with another human being, and it's it's through that God, you know, through the through God.
SPEAKER_06: It's it seems like I'm not sure if I'm explaining this for you.
SPEAKER_00: No, you're doing it fine.
SPEAKER_00: But you know what's interesting is none of what we're talking about is in the Bible.
SPEAKER_06: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: We get this line, confess your sins one to another.
SPEAKER_00: We get a couple other things which say God is faithful and just and will forgive us of all our sins and all of our unrighteousness, you know, so confess that, like be honest, and that will happen, and then the rest of it, tradition's made up.
SPEAKER_04: But it says it it wasn't made a sacrament until the 13th century.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_06: And it don't you think, or it seems to me, that within human relationships, real husband and wife, we've had a you know, a broken marriage and there's been problems, the way to heal is to be honest with each other.
SPEAKER_06: There's a third person present with a counselor to in order to.
SPEAKER_06: So it's like very human kind of way to heal, I think.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it takes very seriously, and I think this is why I I'm glad we've changed the title in some ways from Confession to Reconciliation.
SPEAKER_00: I I've I've really done a lot of thinking on this, and I didn't mean I'm an expert by any means, but I have thought about this a lot, and I sort of think well, I'm positive, reconciliation takes two people who are mutually willing to go forward with one another.
SPEAKER_00: Short of that, you can't have it.
SPEAKER_00: You can only have like forgiveness or confession.
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the whole idea is we have as a base assumption, God wants a future with us, and when we choose to also want a future with God, we get to have reconciliation.
SPEAKER_00: And in a spousal relationship, you know, if two people, if there's a hurt and both people aren't willing, it just didn't gonna work.
SPEAKER_00: And hey, in some ways, I don't want to say like you have to want reconciliation.
SPEAKER_00: There's people who I can't have them hurt me again, so I can't have a future with them.
SPEAKER_00: And God will fix that after we die, because I can't do it now.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there just won't be reconciliation, there'll only be forgiveness, which is okay.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's hop back to James.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I hope that's interesting.
SPEAKER_00: And unction is the same thing.
SPEAKER_00: Is anyone sick?
SPEAKER_00: Have the elders of the church, anoint them with oil, and pray with them.
SPEAKER_00: Now, elder is the word presbyteros.
SPEAKER_00: I'm a presbyter.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we use the word priest out of our sort of Anglican uh tradition, but um, you know, the Methodists call their people elders.
SPEAKER_00: Uh that that and the Presbyterians obviously do that as well.
SPEAKER_00: Um so is anyone sick?
SPEAKER_00: But James doesn't say is anyone dying?
SPEAKER_00: He says, Are they sick?
SPEAKER_00: And then we've had to figure out okay, there used to be something called last rites and extreme unction.
SPEAKER_00: We have neither of those in the Episcopal Church.
SPEAKER_00: Neither.
SPEAKER_00: We have prayers in the time of death, and we have unction.
SPEAKER_00: And I will tell you, I give unction to people before surgeries, but I also give unction to people who lost their spouse and are grieving, and golly, like they're just so is that sickness?
SPEAKER_00: It's dis-ease.
SPEAKER_00: So, so I I offer oil to people who have kids who are alcoholics and they don't know what they're gonna do.
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean that's that's what I offer, and I have some in my car uh in case there's anybody out and about.
SPEAKER_00: I was at the I think I was at a post office and somebody was like all wrapped up and then somebody else's kid was having I don't know why they told me this one.
SPEAKER_00: I was like, uh, you know me, pray for you.
SPEAKER_00: I've got some oil on the car.
SPEAKER_00: And they said, well, yeah, I mean it's an interesting thing.
SPEAKER_00: People actually are pretty open to it, whether they're Catholic or not.
SPEAKER_06: So I think it's that, I think it's gotta be that human.
SPEAKER_06: I've had I've been blessed as it is before major surgery.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I've been I've asked the priest to come, and and I just feel like, you know, if I go, I go, but yeah, but I'm gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's I think it's certain, and this I think is part of the sacramental piece, is that it's physically embodied.
SPEAKER_00: There's a human being representing God's voice, and that's imperfect, but just for that moment they do, right?
SPEAKER_00: And we need physical bits.
SPEAKER_00: And I actually want to say that's probably a good way to think about the whole book here is how is it do we embody God's transcendence?
SPEAKER_00: There's ways we can do it in our community and with our speech and with our faith behaviors.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's in some ways James is about living a sacramental life, embodying a spirituality that is not just transcendent, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00: One other weird word on that that's not in James.
SPEAKER_00: If I asked people to give money to the Interfaith Caring Ministries food pantry, some people would, but I guarantee you I'd get a whole lot less money than I do groceries.
SPEAKER_00: Now it's true that ICM can probably buy groceries more effectively than we can.
SPEAKER_00: They can buy from food banks and in bulk and blah blah blah, and you can't do that.
SPEAKER_00: But I know that if I ask for your money instead of your groceries, A, they'll end up getting less.
SPEAKER_00: And B, I think buying groceries for other people while you buy your own is a really interesting way of sort of being in solidarity with people that don't have enough to eat because you're considering while meeting your own needs and wants the needs and wants of other people in a real way.
SPEAKER_00: And and I think that's right.
SPEAKER_00: I think that's better than sorry, I think it's better than writing checks.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I personally do believe that.
SPEAKER_06: Um those bags were like that.
SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
SPEAKER_06: When you had them, when you had it, I mean, I I mean there's this deep little eye-to-eyeball.
SPEAKER_00: And I and I'll tell you what's really interesting.
SPEAKER_00: I had somebody within the first two, three weeks of us doing that here, making those available.
SPEAKER_00: Somebody said, I used to try to not see those people, and now that I have these bags, I look for them.
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking to give them away.
SPEAKER_00: And that's a sacramentality of relationship building.
SPEAKER_00: You have something real, you feel good in giving, not, you know, torn up about should I?
SPEAKER_00: I I think that's the kind of stuff, I know the James doesn't explicitly talk about that, but in some ways he does.
SPEAKER_00: He says, if you see a brother or sister in need and you say, Well, God bless you, you live in peace, and you don't help them, you didn't do anything.
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's really that's really interesting.
SPEAKER_00: And then the other balance is sometimes we think, oh, you know, we need to do all this social help, but we're not the Red Cross, and our job is actually not to be an NGO, our job is to be an interface between faith and action, but between faith and action.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that's really important.
SPEAKER_06: I'll just say I want to say one more thing.
SPEAKER_06: Our trip to Jordan, I've never before been on a pilgrimage with other people that do for the same purpose.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and this really different.
SPEAKER_06: Tim and I done a lot of stuff on our own, but it was really different to have other people that I really didn't know well that were sharing this same experience and and it and for the same reason and all it was just it was just a very nice sense of that that I never I didn't anticipate.
SPEAKER_00: It it's a retreat, and and that's an interesting thing.
SPEAKER_00: As with all trips, everybody goes looking for different things, but then you have these moments of unity, whether it's uh I don't think it's just because you have a cooking class.
SPEAKER_00: I actually think it's because you have prayer and the Eucharist.
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
SPEAKER_00: That's sort of this anchor that, and I will tell you, church people are on their best behavior on these trips.
SPEAKER_00: Like they're really nice to each other because, you know, we we know we're like churchy people, so we're supposed to be good.
SPEAKER_00: But and that's where actually, I don't want to say travel's a sacramental act, but it but it is.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and in some ways it's exclusive because not everybody can afford to go, and now that it is in health to go and whatever, but um, but there is something really neat about doing it in community and with different intentions.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I that's why I continue to want to do it.
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So now how about James and y'all?
SPEAKER_05: I read James once before because I was told it was about practice, but that was a good idea.
SPEAKER_00: And now that you've read it again, what do you think?
SPEAKER_05: Um I think it's a good idea.
SPEAKER_05: To me, that's an important argument.
SPEAKER_05: That you read it.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: I think that if you just follow James, you compassion is gonna be right on.
SPEAKER_01: You don't, you know, if you just follow it what he outlined and believe in his way, I think I think you're gonna cover it all.
unknown: I just really have a hard time.
unknown: Very clear.
SPEAKER_04: Um very clear here about that uh like you said all the words, you believe that you don't do anything.
SPEAKER_04: So how do you um it's interesting that Martin Luther must have had some kind of serious problem to focus on the works on faith alone?
SPEAKER_04: Um, but anyway.
SPEAKER_00: Um Well, Martin Luther actually believed all of our works were bad because we are utterly depraved of God's image and likeness.
SPEAKER_00: So he he believed we could do nothing good.
SPEAKER_00: But that's why our works are no good.
SPEAKER_00: So it's all about grace because it's all about God's gift to us, and our response is worthless.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's sort of what he decided.
SPEAKER_00: He also was believed in predestination as well, so you just have to keep that in mind.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but the thing is this, well, I really like James because what he's basically saying is that you act as you believe.
SPEAKER_04: In other words, yeah.
SPEAKER_04: We incorporate the teachings of Jesus in our lives, and God works through us around because of that, and uh it's just like one of the things that know here in this idea is uh chapter 120, verse 22, this is the main theme of the letter.
SPEAKER_04: Maybe that's a point where people get hung up.
SPEAKER_04: Uh, because then you put you going farther and say, well, thank you for it.
SPEAKER_06: I'm not crazy about the whole be happy and you're suffering.
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I know what he's saying.
SPEAKER_06: I kind of don't like that.
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
SPEAKER_04: Because I've never managed it.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, me either.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I he doesn't say to be happy, this is important.
SPEAKER_00: Consider it joy.
SPEAKER_00: Because I didn't think happiness can withstand suffering, but I think joy can.
SPEAKER_00: I had a Catholic professor in in in um Atlanta who said repentance is joyful sorrow.
SPEAKER_00: I think he's right.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I listened to an article, I I read, listened to, I listened to it on tape, um, an article even just yesterday, that's this great reminder about what hope is, and that hope is in fact not a feeling at all.
SPEAKER_00: It is a commitment and a practice to setting goals and doing the necessary work to achieve those goals, and it's predicated on the ability that I can do that work.
SPEAKER_00: So I had a kid, uh still have a kid, who told me he wanted to be a professional soccer player when he grew up.
SPEAKER_00: Well, he hadn't played soccer in three years.
SPEAKER_00: That isn't hope, because that's preposterous, right?
SPEAKER_00: That's that's wishing.
SPEAKER_00: So this book, this article said hope is not about wishes at all, it's about attainable smart goals, essentially.
SPEAKER_00: And sure enough, hopeful people aren't born.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what they do is they develop resilience through struggle.
SPEAKER_00: And this big article was talking about how kids can't solve their own problems anymore, and the very people who say that are the ones who solve their kids' problems for them.
SPEAKER_00: And so the thing you have to do is let your kids struggle as hard as that is, because through struggling and working it out, they learn how to be resilient and be hopeful.
SPEAKER_00: They don't feel it, they practice it.
SPEAKER_00: And so that's an interesting thing to have in the background here, right?
SPEAKER_00: Is that um trials, setbacks, having to work it out, is what really develops not just your perseverance, but it develops your hope.
SPEAKER_01: And is hope faith?
SPEAKER_00: I don't think they're equitable, but I and but I do think in some ways, maybe uh they go along together.
SPEAKER_00: And this is where I think as a kid and a teenager and in my early 20s, I really struggled because I thought James was talking about how I'm supposed to feel, but but I'm I'm really convinced he's not.
SPEAKER_00: He's talking about what I'm supposed to do, regardless of my feelings.
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we think, oh, you know, it's best when you're generous and you're cheerful about it.
SPEAKER_00: But I but I've sort of decided actually, like, um if you don't feel like doing it and you do it anyway because you believe it's important, that might be better than doing what you feel like.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is definitely part of marriage, right?
SPEAKER_00: Is that you do, you don't always feel like doing what your partner would most enjoy.
SPEAKER_00: It may actually be very difficult for you, and that's a mark of a healthy relationship, not a bad one, right?
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that you, without the feeling, muster up what you need to do.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I think we could read, James, actually, the whole book that way, that regardless of our feelings, we're meant to do these practices, and if it's harder for you, all the better.
SPEAKER_00: Because that develops perseverance and hope and resilience, right?
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think, I I do think there's all this other business that we lump on here, like, oh, God enjoys it more, and we're not just doing these things because we'll make God happy so we'll have a better afterlife.
SPEAKER_00: I think if we could strip that all away, I think we sort of say, listen, I don't always feel like sharing with people who come here and ask me for rental assistance.
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I probab I pretty much never feel like doing it.
SPEAKER_00: And I always say, why on earth am I doing this?
SPEAKER_00: Because this is a scam, or this, I'd rather spend the money on this or that.
SPEAKER_00: But I will tell you, I always write a check.
SPEAKER_00: I do.
SPEAKER_00: Even if I think it's cockamamic.
SPEAKER_00: Now, if they come back, I say, no, you already got your check.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not a once-a-year guy, I'm like once a lifetime, you know, because this funds are just so limited.
SPEAKER_00: But whatever the story is, and some if just to assuage myself, sometimes they'll they'll say, Well, I can whatever, and I'm like, no, that's between you and the Lord, you know.
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'll let I'll let that be on your conscience, whether you need this or not.
SPEAKER_00: But on my own, you've asked, and here, here, here you get something.
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm really cynical.
SPEAKER_00: I I'm not always nice to these people, but I do always give them a check.
SPEAKER_00: And um, I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I but I can rest there.
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know if that makes sense, but it's very difficult for me.
SPEAKER_00: Um, because often you help one person and you get four or five of their friends asking for stuff too, and you just start to you start to wonder.
SPEAKER_00: But I don't give out enough, I don't give out big enough checks that this is rife for major abuse.
SPEAKER_00: And in some ways, like I say, I I think I don't know about accountability, but obviously they're accountable for what they do with the money or if they need it, but I think I'm accountable for whether or not I choose to practice generosity.
SPEAKER_00: Choose.
SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like it.
SPEAKER_00: Anybody else?
SPEAKER_00: Big pushers or reactions to James or portions of this that really stood out to you.
SPEAKER_01: Well, I like what you said about tongue.
SPEAKER_01: Because I think anything can you about the tongue.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you can give them more problems with that than everything else.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: That's a it's an interesting thing, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00: Because I think one of our most popular vessels of humor is sarcasm.
SPEAKER_00: And I and I think James sort of says uh there's no room for sarcasm.
SPEAKER_00: That's right, which is something that we rejoice in.
SPEAKER_00: Now I learned this as a teacher, there's no room for sarcasm in the classroom.
SPEAKER_00: And um I I I thought most of the time that's true because it makes kids not feel safe, and I I didn't realize at the time that that's actually always true.
SPEAKER_00: I thought I could pull it off where other people couldn't, and of course that's just that's just wrong.
SPEAKER_00: Um I know one person well who is a funny person, um, and he never seems to make jokes at other people's expense, but he's but he's funny.
SPEAKER_00: And um boy, that's that's sort of like like a like a virtuous hero to me, because you know, jokes at other people's expense, James sort of categorically says no to.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_04: Something that I've been uh pondering about a lot was that um when he talks about warning and retrograde chapter five, and um you know says uh come down and read the bell, but the wages that are coming upon you, your riches have rotted, and your garments are rocky, your gold and silver have rusted, and your lust will be evidence against you, and will eat your flesh like fire.
SPEAKER_04: You have laid up treasure for the last days, you know the wages of the laborers who know your field, but you cannot by fraud cry out, and the cries of the hardest of the Lord of hosts.
SPEAKER_04: You have lived on the earth and luxury and your failure, you have happened, you have heart, and a day of slaughter, you have condemned, you have killed the righteous person, he does not resist you.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, I don't think we didn't hear, but somewhere I read not too long ago is that you know, we shouldn't even bother praying for people like this because when people are so committed to their own comfort and wealth and things and that side today and not uh decided to not help any of the others, uh they're trying to like uh frozen and uh situation that you know we can look at things in one day too, and we see here that uh you know situation, just like it's for it, and hopefully it'll be clear.
SPEAKER_04: So I mean not say for people who are just so far gone that not waste our time on it.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you ever waste your time considering somebody else affirmatively?
SPEAKER_00: Is that ever a waste of time?
SPEAKER_01: Well, for most people it's not, but for people who are so blind Well, I know I think I think we I think we need to continue to pray for each and every one of us because to not be the right somebody off, and I don't want to be the person divided by I think that's I mean I think that's probably what my gut says.
SPEAKER_00: And then of course I always think what is the point of prayer anyway?
SPEAKER_00: Is it that God will make somebody do what I think they should do?
SPEAKER_00: Is prayer um a way in which we try to get God to do what we want?
SPEAKER_00: Or is prayer more like a consideration of God's presence in all people and situations?
SPEAKER_06: It's the lateralism to me.
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's different things to everybody, but you know, but I did sort of learn I'm supposed to pray for people by name and condition.
SPEAKER_00: So, God, this person's sick, or listen, there's this baby, and and they they have this you know congenital birth defect, and let's just pray for them.
SPEAKER_00: Which means what?
SPEAKER_00: God let them live, fix it.
SPEAKER_00: Is that how God works?
SPEAKER_01: No.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know the answer to that.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I will tell you, there's this story where uh Moses gets you know the whole Torah, and God says, Look at those people in that calf, I'm gonna kill them all.
SPEAKER_00: And Moses says, No, you shouldn't do that.
SPEAKER_00: That'll really damage your reputation.
SPEAKER_00: You should consider a different thing.
SPEAKER_00: So, so, and then God says, Well, fine, Moses, I'll do what you say.
SPEAKER_00: So, in that story, prayer is changing God's mind.
SPEAKER_00: But most of us don't believe that prayer does that, but we pray like it does, or we wouldn't be asking for all the stuff.
SPEAKER_03: So I Is prayer just a comfort for us?
SPEAKER_03: Well because I've had a real problem um coming to terms with prayer.
SPEAKER_03: I've always prayed, but after studying more than I've ever studied before and reading more, it's I mean, I feel like we're here on earth and things are gonna happen, and whether we pray or not, it's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_03: And that so what's the point of prayer?
SPEAKER_03: I think I mean I know faith is is there.
SPEAKER_03: You're you know, you have faith in God that He's going to give you comfort through your issues.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: But does prayer, do you pray?
SPEAKER_03: Do you really does it work?
SPEAKER_00: Here's I think there's prayer training, yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Uh uh, what's it prayer prayer train?
SPEAKER_03: Prayer training training.
SPEAKER_00: A chain.
SPEAKER_06: Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Those change.
SPEAKER_02: Those changes.
SPEAKER_02: And people you you know, they they call you and say, please pray for this.
SPEAKER_00: Can I tell you a story?
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
SPEAKER_00: I and and then I'm I'm bombastic, you know this already.
SPEAKER_00: So I used to have this practice that I was supposed to spend X amount of time every day in prayer and pray for people by name.
SPEAKER_00: And of course I ended up with this really long list, and it kept getting longer because I wasn't supposed to forget the people at the front of the list because I didn't know if the outcome, the proper outcome had happened.
SPEAKER_00: And um actually, really early in my ordained ministry, I was doing something like this while I would walk my dogs.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what I was thinking about, and it was very dark in the morning, and I would do this for half an hour every day.
SPEAKER_00: And this one woman was on my list.
SPEAKER_00: She um she really was a lovely lady.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, really, really gracious.
SPEAKER_00: Really gracious.
SPEAKER_00: And she had this catastrophic news that she had stage four ovarian cancer.
SPEAKER_00: Now, that's catastrophic because that's the kiss of death.
SPEAKER_00: You don't you don't respond to that.
SPEAKER_00: It's just a question of how long you're gonna live.
SPEAKER_00: And it was, I mean, she had a tumor the size of a grapefruit.
SPEAKER_00: So, and I'm a little jaded because I visit people and I see people die, and I'm around machines and all of that business.
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I've sure seen and I know that um chemotherapy kills people probably more than cancer does.
SPEAKER_00: And what an awful death that is to be sick all the time.
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was thinking, you know, she this lady decided she was gonna fight it.
SPEAKER_00: And I think she decided she was gonna fight it because her kids weren't raising her grandkids right and she wanted to be the stopgap.
SPEAKER_00: I and I think that's a noble thing, but I also think that's out of your power to do, right?
SPEAKER_00: So here I am, and I'm just saying, like, God help this lady just accept she's gonna die.
SPEAKER_00: And this is really strange, it doesn't happen to me often, but I like heard this voice back, and I don't think it was ex it's not like I heard it with my ears, and and I'm not convinced.
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know, but the voice back was why do you get to pick what's best for her?
SPEAKER_00: And I answered, because I've seen people die from chemotherapy, and I happen to know that this goal that she's got, you know, of raising her grandkids is out of her control ultimately.
SPEAKER_00: So there's nothing to live for.
SPEAKER_00: And again, I got this voice back.
SPEAKER_00: Why do you get to pick what's best for her?
SPEAKER_00: It's her life.
SPEAKER_00: So I had this.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the end of the day, what do I really think?
SPEAKER_00: I probably had a dialogue with myself, but I'm really sure I had it in God's presence.
SPEAKER_00: So, what did I end up doing?
SPEAKER_00: God, I hope she can figure out where to really put her energy and that she's not divided, and whatever it is, she decides to do it.
SPEAKER_00: Now, initially I had to say, God give her clarity whether she's gonna live or die, so she knows how to plan accordingly.
SPEAKER_00: Um that was the intermediate step.
SPEAKER_00: But I think the thought was really about helping her have clarity where she was gonna put her energy.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, how not her future, but where she was gonna put her present.
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not convinced that God made that happen.
SPEAKER_00: But what I think I realized was that instead of prayer being this formal time when I come with petitions, prayer for me has become an awareness of God being in the room.
SPEAKER_00: Because most of my life I'm not aware of that.
SPEAKER_00: Who is prayer for?
SPEAKER_00: Probably for me, more than anything else, but I do think there is something really amazing about the community when we consider one another affirmatively.
SPEAKER_00: You know, this I used to think this was hogwash, but Buddhist, this is Buddhist practice, um, people that you have a difficult time forgiving.
SPEAKER_00: You try to imagine them and with the words, may they be free from pain, may they be free from suffering.
SPEAKER_00: And oddly enough, um, I do think that does something for you.
SPEAKER_00: I think that changes the way we relate to people.
SPEAKER_00: And by changing us, I'm sure that changes them.
SPEAKER_00: Because we relate to them differently.
SPEAKER_00: And then I do think there is something about the communion of saints, setting our our our thoughts, our mindfulness on other people, and essentially wishing them to be free from pain.
SPEAKER_00: I feel very comfortable praying for people to die.
SPEAKER_00: God help them to die, help them to know when it's time and to go without fear.
SPEAKER_00: And that's about being free from pain.
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know that that's magic like God makes it happen, but I do think it might help them.
SPEAKER_00: Because I think at the quantum level, I'm not a physicist, but at the quantum level, we're all connected.
SPEAKER_00: This thing called quantum entanglement.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I think prayer is actually the moment where we sort of take that entanglement in, and we sort of do it in.
SPEAKER_00: God's presence.
SPEAKER_00: So I've had some really great prayers that were wordless, that were outdoors in beautiful situations.
SPEAKER_00: I just felt connected with the universe.
SPEAKER_00: I've had some wonderful prayers, again, that changed the way I treated people and changed the way I viewed myself.
SPEAKER_00: And I've had prayers that I felt like, you know, lift actually helped to lift somebody up.
SPEAKER_00: So I hope that's an okay answer.
SPEAKER_00: Long-winded.
SPEAKER_03: That's a good, that's a good answer.
SPEAKER_03: I I have found my my prayers have changed, and um I give a lot more thanks to begin with.
SPEAKER_03: But and then um I pray for people's comfort and peace, for them to find peace and comfort in, uh especially people that I know that are very ill.
SPEAKER_03: Um and that's how I've changed my prayer.
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
SPEAKER_03: Um or ask, you know, him to or for me to be able to find ways to help these people.
SPEAKER_00: So that's how my prayers have changed rather than asking for them to be cured or I I want to say I resonate with those changes, and I'm not gonna pretend like I'm a prayer guru, but but I resonate with that, and I and I feel like that's enriched my own faith life.
SPEAKER_00: I did read a really interesting book called Never Pray Again, and it was written by some actually kind of evangelicals, and I it I mean it's one of those saucy titles, but it sort of sort of said a lot of times we pray for God to help the poor.
SPEAKER_00: So instead of doing that, go help poor people and let that be your prayer.
SPEAKER_00: And in some ways, I think James pushes us to do that instead of just asking God to take care of it.
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead and ask while you embody that.
SPEAKER_00: Don't just ask God that your brother won't be so mad at you.
SPEAKER_00: Go work that out and let that be your prayer.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's an interesting, interesting thing.
SPEAKER_00: I I I I think.
SPEAKER_00: And in that sense, I think prayer does influence the world.
SPEAKER_05: Oh, I like I read the book that we had when I was taking the course in uh about prayer.
SPEAKER_05: It's about praying for things that seem hopeless.
SPEAKER_05: Well, just about anything prayer.
SPEAKER_05: But what she said that helped me.
SPEAKER_05: Uh I mean, if you're praying for something far away, and you know, they said in every action or inaction or situation in the world, there are little things that are more positive than other things.
SPEAKER_05: You know, there's some more positive there somewhere, and uh, your prayer brings energy to that which is positive.
SPEAKER_04: It's uh you know the fact that all the people are praying for you in the day.
SPEAKER_04: The fact that the people are showing their care for you.
SPEAKER_03: That's where comfort comes in, where the you know just knowing someone is thinking of you and um you're you're in their thoughts is the comfort that you can do.
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I think anointing with oil is so powerful because it's duly connecting.
SPEAKER_00: It's it's a physical connection as well.
SPEAKER_00: So it it does at the macro level what's happening at the quantum level, anyway.
SPEAKER_00: I I do think prayer is really interesting in James because you know, I um I have got lots of opinions, and you that's not new for me to tell you that.
SPEAKER_00: And one of the opinions I continue to share in church is that I just am a little bit confused with how it is we talk about our political leaders and with people who have viewpoints different from our own, and I think James really would take us to task on that.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I recently was reading a Facebook post, and this is why I hate that I'm on Facebook in some ways, and that I'm friends with parishioners, because sometimes I read what they write, and I'm like, oh my god, I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_00: But there was somebody who made this post that said they needed a new swear word to describe um a particular group of people because the F-word wasn't strong enough and and they used a new word, and I read that and I thought, like, what the hell is that?
SPEAKER_00: Um because the thing is, and this is what I appreciate so much about the prayers of the people, we didn't pray for our people to win.
SPEAKER_00: We pray for people to pursue justice.
SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's a book we had to read called Praying Shapes Believing, and I'm positive that's right.
SPEAKER_00: If we pray for outcomes, we believe we know.
SPEAKER_00: Listen, I didn't know about trade agreements, but I sure hope the people who know and have influence will pause to think about justice.
SPEAKER_00: I I know I don't like a lot of Donald Trump, but let's be honest, none of us knows him personally.
SPEAKER_00: You don't know what that guy's like, you've never met him.
SPEAKER_00: How can we decide we know him?
SPEAKER_00: I don't know anything about Madonna except she's a different person every time she makes an album.
SPEAKER_00: So who is she really?
SPEAKER_00: She may not even know.
SPEAKER_00: Or it could all be engineered to make money.
SPEAKER_00: Because people do that, they have stage persona.
SPEAKER_00: And um, so to pretend like we know somebody based on their media, well, it's like worse than presumptive, it's just foolish.
SPEAKER_00: And how is it helpful to say, like, oh, I hate the president?
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if if your critique is he's hateful and you hate him, then actually you're twins.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, and I it's funny you can say this like, hey, we don't pray for candidates, we pray for justice, and in the same morning in church, someone will pray for Donald Trump.
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm like, okay, it's fine, and I don't know what that person means.
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I do know what they mean, um, but that's okay, like I can't be mad about that.
SPEAKER_00: But the question is, what do I do?
SPEAKER_00: What do I do about that?
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, when somebody affronts my values, I think prayer is probably the most important thing.
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, like, why am I so mad at that person?
SPEAKER_00: Well, because they're not doing what's right.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but that happens all the time.
SPEAKER_00: So why am I so mad about that?
SPEAKER_00: And prayer actually becomes a way to be mindful about myself so that I don't be reactive and do stuff and think that God's on my team instead of an opportunity to be a little reformed.
SPEAKER_00: I know prayer matters that way.
SPEAKER_00: God, why am I so mad?
SPEAKER_00: And then paying attention to your own answer and chasing that down with the idea that, hey, we didn't it's not helpful to be so mad.
SPEAKER_00: It's not helpful.
SPEAKER_00: It's okay to be disappointed.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, listen, life's disappointing.
SPEAKER_00: Lots of the time.
SPEAKER_00: And life exceeds expectations.
SPEAKER_00: What do we choose to focus on?
SPEAKER_00: Praying shapes believing.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think sorry, I was reaching just now.
SPEAKER_06: I like what you said about gratitude, because I think with aging, and you know, when you're a little kid, you pray for this and that and the other, and even as a teenager, you can sing like, oh, I hope this guy has me happy.
SPEAKER_06: But as you age it, you recognize the graciousness of what God has given you through life, and not just you, what's there just getting up in the morning and listening to a bird sing or something just so aware of it?
SPEAKER_06: Simple, and you become very, very consciously aware of that.
SPEAKER_06: Um I wish I had discovered it younger.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would tell you this, and I think this is right because I'm doing this um couples therapy certification right now, because I do enough premarital counseling that I just need more skills, and that's a really different set of things than I feel like I've ever heard.
SPEAKER_00: And and biologically, um, you know, we're hardwired evolutionarily to look for negatives more than positives.
SPEAKER_00: It's hardwired because negatives are threats, and we're always on the lookout survival-wise, for a threat.
SPEAKER_00: But um, when our frontal cortex develops, I mean that's really what makes us mammals, we we um we can retrain our brain to look for positives more than we look for negatives, and that's really what a gratitude practice does.
SPEAKER_00: And voicing appreciation, particularly within couples, that's what it does, is retrains your brain instead of it.
SPEAKER_00: It's natural to look for negatives.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's in our DNA that we look for negatives more.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but we we we can change that, and that's what gratitude practices ultimately do.
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really interesting coming back to James, right, that there's this whole section about not judging other people.
SPEAKER_00: Don't slander one another.
SPEAKER_00: Anyone who speaks against their sibling or judges them speaks against the law and judges it.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, essentially, when you judge your brother, you're judging God, which is really interesting because I feel very comfortable in judging my brother.
SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm usually right.
SPEAKER_00: That's the sad bit.
SPEAKER_00: So there's that really interesting thing to really enter into prayer, which is maybe a conversation with myself in God's presence about.
SPEAKER_00: Why am I doing that?
SPEAKER_00: Well, because it makes me feel slightly better than I already feel about not feeling good about myself.
SPEAKER_00: Okay, how can I change that?
SPEAKER_00: I can practice gratitude, especially with the people I like the least.
SPEAKER_00: Anyone who knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it sins.
SPEAKER_00: Gosh, that's a terrible line, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00: That's where we get the thing, the things we've done and the things we've left undone.
SPEAKER_00: There it is.
SPEAKER_00: Tough.
SPEAKER_00: Tough stuff.
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm being lexury.
SPEAKER_04: That's why we're here.
SPEAKER_04: What about that lady that you were praying for?
SPEAKER_00: Did she Yeah, she took the treatment, she lived a couple more months and she died.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so actually, she had like a short-lived, miraculous comeback.
SPEAKER_00: She did.
SPEAKER_00: She she um she was upright, of course, she lost all her hair, and I'm pretty sure her it was really painful to her body, but um maybe it didn't hurt as much because that's where she'd set her goal.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a really interesting thing.
SPEAKER_00: When you've got a goal and you know it's going to be tough, pain doesn't hurt as much when it's a surprise and not in your goals.
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's people who run marathons with stress fractures in their feet, and that has to hurt like awful, but they do it and the pain doesn't, because they're not thinking about the pain, they're thinking about their goal.
SPEAKER_00: We all have that in some area of our lives.
SPEAKER_00: There's things we do perpetually that would drive other people crazy, but we've become acclimated to it because that's ultimately our hope or our faith or our practice.
SPEAKER_00: So so it was it was kind of cool, and then it was just really sad when she died, particularly because she'd gone through all of that, but you know, that's what she chose to do.
SPEAKER_00: So maybe it wasn't that sad.
SPEAKER_00: Actually, she'd attained her goal of initially bouncing back.
SPEAKER_00: That's you know, that was the thing.
SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, it's just a tough loss, because sure, right?
SPEAKER_00: She um we all gonna die.
SPEAKER_00: She just was a really nice person.
SPEAKER_00: It was really it's really sad when nice people die because uh uh the world needs more nice people.
SPEAKER_00: Any other thoughts?
SPEAKER_00: We didn't talk about favoritism.
SPEAKER_00: There is an interesting bit about favoritism.
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, a lot of us would like to presume that we're not biased or whatever, but um, you know, the the DOD came out in Harvard.
SPEAKER_00: There's this book called Blind Spot you can read, and uh it turns out that um your eye has a has a blind spot.
SPEAKER_00: So there's a place you can you can take a book and you can move it, and there's this certain point where you won't see the book anymore, you'll see around the book, but the book's in front of you.
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just super strange.
SPEAKER_00: You you have this blind spot, and you don't know that.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00: And that the premise of the book is we all have these blind spots about, and I don't want to just say like racism or sexism, but in general we do have blind spots to those things.
SPEAKER_00: And so someone developed this really easy test that you can take, you can do this online that help you evaluate whether or not you have a blind spot.
SPEAKER_00: I sure like to believe that I'm not prejudiced, but um the way this works actually is you have to make equations like if you say bugs bad, flowers good, and you have to make those ranks.
SPEAKER_00: Well, you already believe that, so that'll be really easy.
SPEAKER_00: But if you have to go rank bugs good, flowers bad, you're not gonna it's gonna take you a lot longer to do that because you're gonna have to consciously think about it.
SPEAKER_00: So what it reveals is what is subconscious and what's conscious.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00: So if you have to take an inventory that says white people good, black people bad, the research sort of says you're gonna fly through that one compared to when you have to say black people good, white people bad.
SPEAKER_00: And that reveals an unconscious blind spot.
SPEAKER_00: Listen, when you think about it, you can make the informed decision, but those subconscious decisions travel something like 7,000 times faster than conscious decisions, which is why police shoot people.
SPEAKER_00: Because that's how fast it travels.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00: And police have biases, well, frankly, based on their experiences, like we all do.
SPEAKER_00: So there's this interesting thing where our brain likes to develop in general rules, it's called heuristic reasoning or rules of thumb.
SPEAKER_00: That's a terrible word because that's about you know beating your spouse.
SPEAKER_00: But um, rules of thumb, our brain is hardwired to do that, and in general, in our experience, those are true.
SPEAKER_00: But they're not always true, and that's the hard thing for us to get our heads around, is that our our prejudices and our biases and our stereotypes might generally be true in our own experience, but they're not always true.
SPEAKER_00: And if we act like they're always true, we trample people down in support of this sort of stuff, whether it's economics, like James talks about, or other kinds of favorites.
SPEAKER_06: What is a website where someone can take a look at it?
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's in my blogs.
SPEAKER_00: I can forward it to you.
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's a blog coming out about it soon if you're on that blog.
SPEAKER_00: If you're on the on the website list and you don't delete these things, there's one of these things that comes out every morning about Luke.
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, I can just say I'll send it to you because that's presumptive of me that you have to come through all this.
SPEAKER_03: I used to get Luke every day, and I was reading it, and I just realized I haven't been getting them.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, looking at Luke.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I haven't been getting it lately.
SPEAKER_03: I do.
SPEAKER_03: I I don't think I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_06: I was.
SPEAKER_00: We send them every day.
SPEAKER_03: I was getting it every day, and I just realized that I haven't been getting it in the last probably week.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll tell you when I get done, I'll just go ahead and bind it because it's the whole book of Luke.
SPEAKER_00: Um it's coming all the way through Easter, in fact.
SPEAKER_03: Um I love I love them, and I read them every morning, but just when you mention it, it's like and I I like I like reading from a book.
SPEAKER_06: I I I'm not good at reading.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I'm gonna make a book.
SPEAKER_00: If I have to independently publish it, I'm gonna make a book.
SPEAKER_00: That was actually one of my Lenten goals, was to make a new book.
SPEAKER_06: Print this off, honey.
SPEAKER_06: Print this off because then I can hold a page, I can write on it, I can do stuff.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: I don't like reading screens either.
SPEAKER_00: But I have it in there, that's that's why I call them out.
SPEAKER_00: But I'll send you that link.
SPEAKER_07: Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: But it is an interesting thing.
SPEAKER_00: I will tell you that, you know, people approach rectors differently from associate rectors, and people approach male priests differently than they approach female priests.
SPEAKER_00: And people often approach priests differently according to how we're dressed, or whether or not we have particularly jewelry, or uh what's on our skin.
SPEAKER_00: I get lots of different approaches for that.
SPEAKER_00: People are sometimes radically dismissive or radically prepared to give me power I didn't deserve.
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting stuff.
SPEAKER_04: You know, there was an article in the Chronicle this morning about Pope Francis, that he what it basically was saying, he was saying is that a lot of the bishops are asking that women be getting more power in the church and leadership roles, and Francis is saying yes, that they women deserve that justification or whatever, uh, and uh that uh women need to have a more positive leadership, you know, etc.
SPEAKER_04: And uh so I think you know uh I was surprised to read it, but I was glad to see it, and also to learn that the bishops were asking for more women in leadership role.
SPEAKER_04: And it's just a matter of time until the Catholic Church is starting ordaining women, but I mean by a matter of time, you know, eighty, fifty years or so, you know, but you didn't there'll be married priests for you.
unknown: Yeah, they've got to be.
SPEAKER_01: And that's there is that's what I don't understand because because the Eastern Rite churches under the Catholic Church, the priest can be married.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, well actually you can be married with children and be a Catholic priest now.
SPEAKER_00: The trick is you get ordained Episcopalian and then you go over from there.
SPEAKER_05: Or Lutheran.
SPEAKER_00: And I think oh, but only evangelical Lutheran.
SPEAKER_00: If you're Missouri Synod, no.
SPEAKER_00: Um Gloria Day's Missouri Synod, so we don't have communion with them, just heads up.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I mean that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Um nor would they with the Episcopal Church.
SPEAKER_00: Um so I I don't know, it's one of those hard bits because in order to do that, what the Pope would have to do is say another Pope who spoke ex cathedral was wrong, and when you do that, you undermine your whole tradition.
SPEAKER_00: Like you undermine your own ability to speak ex cathedral.
SPEAKER_01: Wait a minute, but speaking from the chair didn't come until what 1576?
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, no, no, it's much older than that.
SPEAKER_00: Uh in fact, remember, this is one of the um the counter-reformations, is the Council of Trent.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: And that's where the Pope tried to prove that the Pope's the Pope is stronger than Scripture by making the Apocrypha Scripture.
SPEAKER_00: It never was.
SPEAKER_00: But that was the Pope's proof that tradition is greater than Scripture itself.
SPEAKER_04: And well, that's uh mistake.
SPEAKER_04: But the church has always had a problem with the early church had women for until Constantine, and they uh charging with the way the woman.
SPEAKER_04: But the battle has been going on for centuries, and uh yeah, I agree with you about the pope, and I never agreed with that myself, but anyway, uh it it has to come.
SPEAKER_06: But you know what to mean as a raised Catholic, the women the woman role, I because I went to Catholic school, the nuns were very instrumental in my jobs were very instrumental.
SPEAKER_06: Um, and those women, they they're my heroes.
SPEAKER_06: I'm Sister Mary Riker and some of the other nuns.
SPEAKER_06: And two, my parents, my grandparents, my mother, uh, and I don't know if it's just a personal thing, but I think it's been informal, it's informally said, you know, but it's informal from my experience as a Catholic part.
SPEAKER_06: But women were pretty very powerful and important, and what happens right close to you.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that becomes, I think, a way that you could consider James James' discussion of favoritism.
SPEAKER_00: And again, there there is what's interesting, right, is that there's most women have a patriarchal bias.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean, and that's and well, and when I think of the blessed virgin at her position in the Catholic Church, my goodness, if you go into a Catholic home, you have the blessed virgin.
SPEAKER_06: Before you had Jesus on the cross was too sad.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Which shows how all this stuff happened.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: Well, we I need to give up.
SPEAKER_00: No, no, I've been trying to bring it up.
SPEAKER_00: That is part of the subject.
SPEAKER_00: Is that favoritism?
SPEAKER_00: You know?
SPEAKER_00: And maybe just a few other bits to highlight in James.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you care about this, but the chapter one is actually called the epitome of James because it's a concise summary of everything he goes on to develop.
SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, if you if you're interested in this, when you read chapter one, he outlines everything he's going to go back and address.
SPEAKER_00: And one of his conclusions in chapter one is that religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this, to look after orphans and widows in their distress.
SPEAKER_00: And to keep oneself being polluted by the world.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, so so that's that's a pretty that's a pretty strong criterion for uh whether or not our faith is properly practiced.
SPEAKER_00: Remember, it doesn't literally mean widows and orphans.
SPEAKER_00: Those are the people who had the least amount of, I don't want to say power, but ability to protect or look out for themselves.
SPEAKER_00: Um it may not be that widows are in that condition now.
SPEAKER_00: I I actually would say I don't think that's the case, that widows in the United States belong in that category.
SPEAKER_00: Umphans is a funny word.
SPEAKER_00: We don't usually use that.
SPEAKER_00: I think probably foster kids probably belong there.
SPEAKER_00: And then and then you have to decide who else belongs in that group.
SPEAKER_00: Um and again, that's that's a criterion for faith.
SPEAKER_00: Notice what James does that we've been trying to do really the whole time, the whole study, is it contrasts two kinds of wisdom.
SPEAKER_00: And and maybe in some ways what James is contrasting is knowledge versus wisdom.
SPEAKER_00: You know, like we did way back when we talked about Proverbs, but that there's wisdom that comes from above, and then frankly, there's shrewdness.
SPEAKER_00: And we often call shrewdness wisdom, but it's not.
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's an interesting uh thing because the wisdom that comes from above is full of mercy, and shrewdness rarely is.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just just thinking about that.
SPEAKER_00: James is highlighting that that difference, and that's one of those pieces that it is um often missing.
SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a process in um chapter four that's sort of interesting, um, that reads, submit yourselves to God, resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
SPEAKER_00: Come near to God and he will come near to you.
SPEAKER_00: Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts.
SPEAKER_00: Grieve mourn and wail.
SPEAKER_00: Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
SPEAKER_00: Humble yourselves before the Lord, and God will lift you up.
SPEAKER_00: And um, I did hear an interesting commentary on this, oh, I think when I was in college, that sort of suggested that this is actually like a process of repentance, and it's in steps.
SPEAKER_00: So submitting yourself to God is the first step, and then the second is resisting the devil.
SPEAKER_00: Now remember, this word in Greek, diabolos, means slanderer.
SPEAKER_00: That's really important to remember.
SPEAKER_00: James no way has in mind the axis of evil that is a spiritual being opposed to God, but rather the slanderer.
SPEAKER_00: What is because it's interesting, he goes on to talk about not slandering other people.
SPEAKER_00: Um slander, right, is circulating information about people that isn't true.
SPEAKER_06: In Spanish, the word diablo is devil.
SPEAKER_00: It is, but I want you to know in Greek, diablos means slanderer.
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
SPEAKER_07: I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00: And the reason that's important, that's in my Linton blogs too, is that you know, Baptist is a Greek word.
SPEAKER_00: It means dunker.
SPEAKER_00: But we decided we're gonna just call it baptism because we don't dunk, we sprinkle.
SPEAKER_00: Satan means accuser, but we decided, no, Satan's like this thing, but it means accuser.
SPEAKER_00: It's not a proper name in the Bible, and devil's not a proper name either.
SPEAKER_00: And accusation and slander are are are uh definitely in the same bed together.
SPEAKER_00: So in that sense, they're interchangeable.
SPEAKER_00: And what's interesting, right, is um this idea that slander is something that draws us away from God.
SPEAKER_00: So when we resist slander, we're able to close the gaps between us and God.
SPEAKER_00: Slander are those things we buy into that aren't true.
SPEAKER_00: Like you suck.
SPEAKER_00: We often buy into that, and when I think I suck, there is a larger gulf between God and myself.
SPEAKER_00: So resisting slander is about humility.
SPEAKER_00: That's where you get it to the end.
SPEAKER_00: Humble yourselves and God will lift you up.
SPEAKER_00: Humility is not about uh deprecation, humility is being exactly who God made you to be, no more and no less.
SPEAKER_00: We usually err on the no more side and are very happy to put ourselves down, but that's not humility, that's masochism.
SPEAKER_00: So resisting slander is slandering other people, but resisting slander about ourselves.
SPEAKER_00: And I did hear this really interesting thought once again yesterday, was reminded of, but I saw listening to this book again.
SPEAKER_00: Um quantitatively, the absence of scarcity is what?
SPEAKER_00: Abundance.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's right.
SPEAKER_00: But this book says actually qualitatively, the opposite of scarcity is just being enough.
SPEAKER_00: And this author sort of says scarcity and abundance are two sides of the same dysfunctional coin.
SPEAKER_07: Wow.
SPEAKER_00: Because um in general, when we think about abundance and we think about scarcity, we're always on the edge of what will I do next instead of being enough.
SPEAKER_00: And I think I think that's an interesting way of considering humility is neither about scarcity nor abundance, but being enough.
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the end of my fun with James.
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, thanks for thanks for being here and participating.
SPEAKER_00: And next week we'll take on, I think arguably the most understood book in the Bible, and I hope we come to a better understanding of it.
SPEAKER_00: We'll be doing that the next five weeks.
SPEAKER_00: Next week we'll read just Revelation the whole bit, and then we'll come back over four weeks and dial in to four sections.
SPEAKER_00: So see you then.