WEBVTT 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:07.599 Okay, I want to do a little departure from normal and actually start by telling you about the word believe. 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:08.400 Is that okay? 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:20.480 So believe is this pretty solid bit in English, and usually what we do with it is I don't know why I didn't clean this board. 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:27.600 Usually what we do with it is make it a cognitive category about assent, right? 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:33.359 So believe has to do with do you think something is factual or not? 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:33.840 Right? 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:35.759 Did it happen or no? 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:38.560 That's usually how we use the word believe. 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:42.399 Even when we're telling a story, we say, Don't you believe me? 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.679 Don't you think the fact pattern is true? 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:47.920 And again, that's a box that we usually check. 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:53.200 So we believe George Washington was the first president of the United States. 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:58.079 We believe his birthday was on February the 15th, right? 00:00:58.159 --> 00:00:59.520 These are belief bits. 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:05.519 But think about how different that is, because we only have this one word we use from believing in Jesus. 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:18.879 Now we could say we believe Jesus was a historical person, but isn't that way of thinking very different in believing in the larger life he came to bring? 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:21.439 And just think about how different those are. 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:34.000 So it turns out, and and this is a little bit from Latin, we get there's three words in Latin that each get translated into English as believe. 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:38.239 And one of them is visio, like vision, right? 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:41.120 You hear the this is belief as vision. 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:44.560 So again, this is like a way of looking at the world. 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:49.359 The education word would be schema, world view. 00:01:50.799 --> 00:02:04.400 And think then that when you change your belief, you really altered the way you see the world, like you got new wineskins, to return to that terminology. 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:12.719 Or like Piaget says, you've accommodated your worldview to fit new information. 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:18.159 So belief is not just about a fact, it's just a way of seeing the world. 00:02:18.319 --> 00:02:26.800 So I just to consider is the universe neutral, negative, or good? 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:30.000 These are beliefs. 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:35.280 Well, the facts say life is short and full of calamity. 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:37.680 That's actually a way of believing. 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:50.240 Another way of saying, of believing, is that uh our bodies are great, the universe is good, the universe conspires towards you meeting your personal destiny, to quote the alchemist, right? 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:52.719 Different beliefs, different visions. 00:02:53.840 --> 00:03:02.319 Um another uh word that gets mapped to belief is the word like fidelitas. 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:04.479 You know, this this one's pretty easy. 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:11.680 We get fidelity as belief, whether that's in marriage or otherwise, this is you know, sort of being faithful. 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:15.039 What do you know, to a vision or to a person. 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:25.360 So if you believe something, then uh then you've got this this faithfulness, this perseverance because it's in your core, right? 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:37.520 And then the other one that gets mapped is something like fiducia, which you you get is like a fiduciary responsibility. 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:39.599 This is a stewardship term. 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:45.840 It's very similar actually to uh to fidelity in a sense, right? 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:55.439 You you you are sort of managing, I mean again, these are all ways of orienting your life and your values. 00:03:55.919 --> 00:04:01.919 So again, we often say we just in English we've got this one word, but in Latin there's three. 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:12.080 And all of this is really coming to this idea about where do you put your where do you put your heart, right? 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.560 And and the the cour in French, that's where that's our heart, right? 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:19.040 So all of this is is belief. 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:31.759 What I want to say is that most of um my early church experience, belief was an intellectual ascent more than anything else. 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:34.639 Do you believe in Jesus? 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:41.519 Didn't necessarily mean I reoriented my vision and lifestyle. 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:50.000 It was really, did I have an intellectual ascent that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and was my personal savior? 00:04:50.160 --> 00:05:04.319 That's what belief meant to me as a teenager and a kid and in my early 20s, much more so than reorienting the way I interact with myself and the world. 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:13.439 John is much more interested in these deeper categories than an intellectual ascent. 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:16.560 That's what I want to put out first. 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:18.079 So I hope that's I hope that's okay. 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.839 Because again, we usually look at belief and it's a confusing word. 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:24.480 Like salvation's a confusing word. 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:31.439 Salvation for me was you go to heaven or you go to hell when you die, and that was it. 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:36.000 That was getting saved meant you didn't go to hell when you died. 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:42.959 But John is much more interested in larger life, both now and later. 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:51.680 And this is so ingrained just in our language, because we don't have a word that means all of that at the same time. 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:54.639 Again, belief is like, do you think it's true? 00:05:54.879 --> 00:06:04.160 This is just the limits of our language that we almost have to constantly remind ourselves is not what the Bible is interested in. 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:12.639 The Bible is not interested in you getting um factual history correct and being done. 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:20.160 The Bible is interested in reorienting your life, the way you treat and understand others and yourself. 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:28.720 And if we stop at the first, we've missed the whole reason for the endeavor, which is fundamental transformation. 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:42.639 That was very assertive of me, but I want to see if that brings up any questions or comments in you, either on its own or as you've read what is going on here in John. 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.120 You mentioned intellectual understanding. 00:06:48.319 --> 00:07:02.079 So when you were being raised in your 20s, you the way this is the way that the story people as true. 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:03.839 Factually true. 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:07.120 Factually true, because it actually happened just that way. 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:10.720 And then after that, you changed. 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:12.959 Well, I'm trying, it's really hard. 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:14.480 I don't know if I'll ever change. 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:22.000 I don't know that you necessarily need to, because the thing is, something can be factually true and also true with a capital T. 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:31.439 But one of the weird things, having got a degree in math, and this is I should never have done this, is that you know, math is true, but but it isn't at all. 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:33.120 I mean, it's all completely made up. 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:35.360 I mean, this is what you learn in number theory. 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:39.839 Everything works in our digit system because we've decided the digit system. 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:42.800 But if we change the digit system, it doesn't work at all. 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:50.000 You know, so everything works in in mod 10, but when you've got mod 60, it's all recalibrated and it's all different. 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.800 Addition, subtraction, multiplication are all different when you change the standard. 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:56.079 And who set the standard? 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:56.720 We did. 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:59.120 It's not inherently true that things come in tens. 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:03.920 Babylonians count in 60s because they count all of their knuckles. 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:06.000 It's called the hexagesimal system. 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:12.079 So all of their ratios and fractions are totally different from ours, and they're not wrong. 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:14.800 This is different, they have the different bases. 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:17.040 And this is an interesting thing, right? 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:19.519 I believe in the Pythagorean theorem. 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:20.639 I believe it works. 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:27.920 With our gravity and our situation, you know, I mean, there's just so many assumptions based on that. 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:32.080 Now, math people out there who are listening to this may say, you got that all wrong. 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:32.960 That's fine. 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:35.840 Um, I wasn't, I should never should have been a math major. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:45.759 But there is, frankly, some um presuppositions we have to put in place even for our mathematical values to hold. 00:08:46.399 --> 00:09:24.080 Um I think for me, being raised Hispanic and speaking Spanish before I spoke English, um, and being raised in the Catholic Catholic and Probably told that there was more emphasis on the to me, and it seemed like it was more about love and the terms of the terms of Jesus and his sacrifice and um but but in embedded in that also was the heaven and hell. 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:33.200 I think that's what makes it really hard, is that we've got this heaven and hell bit, and it complicates everything. 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:44.240 Because I think we can say, oh, Jesus loves you, but you'll go to hell if you don't get it right, and then and then, my God, what kind of love is that? 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:53.200 You know, I mean, but at the as a kid, that was our definition, is that Jesus loves you, so you don't have to go to hell if you get it right. 00:09:53.360 --> 00:10:00.559 But but then what we learn, right, is that love isn't a gift, it's really a reward for having done the right thing. 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:03.679 Well, you don't have to do much, you just have to believe. 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:05.840 But if you don't believe, you go to hell. 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:07.519 So I mean, again, it's not a gift. 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.320 If you have to do something, it's not a gift. 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:13.840 Gifts are free, wages are earned. 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.120 So salvation is a wage in the way I grew up. 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:19.120 Now, again, we didn't hear it that way. 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:23.679 We were told, no, no, it's a free gift from God, you just have to open it. 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:25.519 But that's not how gifts work. 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:29.600 If I'm given a gift, I don't have to open it, and I still get to keep it. 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:30.720 It's mine. 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.120 That's the definition of a gift. 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:36.480 If I have to open it, well, I had to do something. 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:38.399 I had to do something. 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:40.240 And that's a wage at that point. 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:42.639 If I have to do something, it's no longer a gift. 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:48.159 But see, it's so ingrained in me that you don't get a gift until you open it. 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:53.279 Really, what we should have said is you'll enjoy it more if you open it. 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:57.759 But you don't have to because it's yours. 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:07.840 And this is where I think if you're if you're feeling a little bit like, oh, Mike, you do have to open it, I just want you to think through that intellectually, that's not right. 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:16.399 But we were so instilled with that mentality that it's changed the way we think about gifts, all kinds of gifts. 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:24.720 What do you believe about gifts? 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:25.600 You see what I mean? 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:29.519 This is really deeply ingrained church business. 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:39.279 And we taught our kids one thing, but we spoke out of both sides of our mouths, and I'm still living into this two-sided bit. 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:42.320 God helps those who help themselves. 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:45.279 Maybe, but that's not a gift. 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:52.879 A gift to me, and I guess this is the way I was raised, is was always transactional. 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:54.080 Absolutely. 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:58.879 I got a gift, it was my responsibility at the very least to send a thank you note. 00:11:59.120 --> 00:11:59.519 Yep. 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:06.399 I I I'm I'm not the king of thank you notes, but I'm at least a duke of them. 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:08.000 I'm a duke. 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:10.559 You're a very good thing. 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:11.120 I'm horrible. 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:12.000 Next level down. 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:12.320 I'm good. 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:13.840 Listen, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:24.000 I mean, I'm at least in the petty nobility when it comes to thank you notes because gifts also were transactions for me instead of deposits. 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:36.480 And I'll tell you, it drives me crazy with my own children if they don't say thank you, because thank you completes the transaction. 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:37.759 Don't you see? 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:43.519 Now listen, it's good manners and it's helpful, but it's it's not a gift. 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:59.919 And I get so mad when I don't get the transaction that I've taught them to, when really, if there's any transaction at all, the fact that they enjoy the gift, that should be the transaction I'm looking for. 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:05.840 Or they don't even open it, but I was thrilled to give it to them. 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:13.759 You know, I mean, I think these are the higher values we're trying to get to, and we have to accommodate the way we view the world. 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:19.679 I get gifts from people sometimes, and I'm like, okay, mental note, on their birthday, I must give them something. 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:21.600 Because they gave me something. 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:23.039 Transaction. 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:27.200 But that's just like this human and how we live on earth. 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:39.200 So this other is like which is why I think we've got to rethink how we view God, because quite honestly, I often think God's in it for the transaction. 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:41.759 So I think I've told you this before. 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:59.279 Um Meg uses the phrase personal relationship with God a lot, which I really appreciate, and it's really loaded with baggage for me because the image I got for God as a teenager was that God loves you and is sitting at a restaurant waiting for you to come on a date called prayer. 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:11.519 And God sits there and you don't show up, you're late, and you break God's heart because you don't spend enough time with God, and that's a transaction. 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:19.840 And I love that you emphasize it, and I I it it it bristles at me because that's my core image. 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:24.720 And I had to do spiritual direction with this nun for a long time. 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:45.360 You know, in my my prayer life was I would I would spend 30 minutes a day or whatever, and I finally got to this place where you know I would sit down mentally and be like, God, I'm so sorry, I've made you wait all day, I don't pray enough, and then I sin and I do all this wrong, and my brother, you know, he's sick, and would you help him out? 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:46.240 Like that's what I did. 00:14:46.320 --> 00:15:02.799 And then after like two years with this little nun, I was able to reimagine the scene where I would start doing that, and God would go, shh, shisten, if we're only gonna spend 10 minutes together, let's spend it together. 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.519 But you doing all that is not us being together. 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:06.559 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:12.639 Well, see, that's a very different image about a personal relationship. 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:14.080 You you know what I mean. 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.639 My prayer was transactional. 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:21.840 If I spent the right amount of time, then God would give me what I wanted. 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.240 Sick people would get better. 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:30.879 If I went enough in prayer, then, you know, I'd be happier. 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:35.120 Like I was just looking for these transactional values. 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.080 And I want to say, in some ways, it goes two ways. 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:45.440 The way we treat each other informs the way we treat God, but I also think the way we think about God is how we think about each other. 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:51.039 And this I think is the biggest complicator about hell being an eternal consequence. 00:15:51.279 --> 00:16:01.039 If you believe that, I'm not saying you shouldn't, but if you believe that, I think the notion of gift is completely ruined. 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.799 Because you can't because there's a con there's a wage. 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:15.679 Now, I'm not telling you not to believe in hell, I just if there is eternal punishment forever, then where is there any gifting? 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:22.559 I don't remember that the theologian beloved. 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.879 But they said that hell is an empty place. 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.519 Well, Augustine says evil is not real, it's an illusion. 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:40.159 And Augustine believed in hell, but this person is taking Augustine more seriously than he took himself. 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:42.159 And it may have been Rob Bell. 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:46.320 Now, I will tell you an interesting idea uh comes from C.S. 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:46.720 Lewis. 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:48.399 I've mentioned this in the Great Divorce. 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:59.279 He says, hell is this place of just utter loneliness and despair, and God asks us to leave every day, and it's only eternal if we stay there. 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:10.400 But I had this really interesting professor who said, listen, you know, um, if God's everywhere, then God's in hell, or better way of thinking, hell is inside of God. 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.599 So hell is like the ulcer in God's stomach. 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:31.279 There's an interesting way of thinking about this, and God beckons us out of hell all of the time, not because we have to earn our way, but but but frankly, it's an opportunity to enjoy God's gift. 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:32.880 We don't have to. 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.079 It's ours, whether we enjoy it or not. 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:44.559 And I will tell you the interesting thing about transactional gifting, it makes gifts very unenjoyable or less enjoyable. 00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:49.440 Because every day is a gift from God, but I better make the most of it. 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:53.680 This is a wonderful trip, and I better see everything. 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:58.079 I'm going to get to go to school, and I better get great grades. 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:06.000 You this is my way of thinking, and it has served me very well in the sense that I've done a lot of stuff. 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:07.920 How much of it have I enjoyed? 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:09.680 Don't ask me that question. 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.720 What I've enjoyed is being productive. 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:16.720 But that doesn't mean I enjoyed any of the things. 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:18.559 I enjoyed the produce. 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:29.599 So this is, I think, really helpful to think up front about what believe means to us and what it might actually mean in John. 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:38.880 That's kind of scary in terms of the production because I tend to look at my head and think, ah geez, I'm so productive. 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:40.480 I don't know. 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.279 And but that's wow. 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:44.799 That's a question. 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:46.400 What does that mean? 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.640 I really enjoy it. 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:49.359 Wow. 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.240 It's really hard. 00:18:50.319 --> 00:19:00.319 And you know what's hard is because I suspect this is true for most of us, we sort of think, well, yeah, but if I just thought about enjoyment, I would never do anything. 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:09.519 Because our system is so shakily built that if we think, oh, you know, I don't have to be a workaholic, then I won't do anything. 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:10.559 It's an either-or. 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:13.839 We've bought into an either-or mentality. 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:17.920 And it and actually it's not true at all. 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:23.279 But I just said that it's not true, but I'm like, oh yeah, I think it actually is pretty true. 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:26.319 If I rested, I wouldn't do anything. 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.799 So I can't take breaks. 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.599 I have to make the most of every opportunity. 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:35.039 When I go to Rome, I have to see every sight in a day. 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.039 I did that, by the way. 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.480 I'm like the king of checking off the whole itinerary. 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:44.000 I enjoyed being productive. 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:45.200 See, again, this is it. 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:46.720 I enjoyed being productive. 00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:52.400 But I will tell you what I also don't enjoy about being productive is in my mind I'm like, maybe I missed something. 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:55.440 Damn it, I might have missed something. 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:59.119 There was that chapel I didn't go into, and what if I missed something? 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:03.680 Instead, I know people who will go to Rome and they don't go to anything. 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:10.559 They sit in a cafe and they like have it like a like a like a cannoli, and that was their trip. 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.200 And I think, what a waste of a trip. 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.680 Except like that was what they wanted to do, you know? 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:23.599 And I and I say, well, you wanted stupid things because you should have wanted to check out the whole itinerary. 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:27.839 I mean, this is like but I want you to hear. 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:31.039 You're you're what you want. 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:33.839 This is the definition of being a type A person. 00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:43.599 And I think it comes back from, frankly, not just the Protestant work ethics, but about us justifying our existence. 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:46.319 It's really, really. 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:51.279 This may not be core stuff for you, and I may just be doing group therapy. 00:20:51.519 --> 00:21:00.160 But I I but I think some of this is inherent in the way we view God and view other people. 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:05.680 When you put this book out here, I thought immediately I had to go home and read it every single day. 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:12.160 Listen, we're not the only thing, and I'll just tell you, because I'm this person, we're taking this pilgrimage to this trip. 00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:13.200 Yeah, we're going to Jordan. 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:20.480 And if you go on this trip to Jordan, you are not going to miss a single thing except for going to the Red Sea Riviera. 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:22.559 And I just can't even justify that at all. 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:25.680 Even though it would be enjoyable. 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:29.920 I can't, I can't justify it because it's got no historical significance whatsoever. 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:30.880 It's zero. 00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:34.480 Um, and then I think we maybe we should have done it. 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:43.279 But uh we're gonna go as a group and we're gonna do these fun things, but but we also have to hit check all the important things, and in some ways I do like that. 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.319 So it's this tension we live into. 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:54.640 I I I didn't want to take a trip, a group pilgrimage to Jordan and have canoes in a cafe for twelve days and say that was that. 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.759 Um no, but if you went by yourself, you could do that. 00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.759 I would you're responsible for 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:03.119 If I went by myself, I still wouldn't do it. 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:05.680 I would be pounding the pavement. 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:06.559 Oh, I would. 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.240 Again, I would leave no stone unturned because I don't know when I'll be back. 00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:11.519 Again, that's my mentality. 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:19.440 But again, like I'm around interesting people who take these trips and they don't have objective except to just be in the place. 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:21.119 And there's probably some middle ground. 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:25.839 But like the heart is not, the heart and the head are not decorated. 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:26.880 It's not wrong. 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:28.319 It's the way you feel. 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.240 See, it's this is what you've said is it's not wrong. 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:34.160 It's it's a different way. 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:42.799 And really what's what's wrong about my way is if I'm not enjoying it and if I'm not present, then it is wrong. 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.799 Not sinful, it's just missing an opportunity. 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.880 But in that is when you feel inside you yourself. 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:55.279 That's because you're not happy, you're not really happy unless you do these things. 00:22:55.519 --> 00:23:01.119 So you would have to have a conversation with yourself to hold off, and then you wouldn't be happy. 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:02.400 Well now I full attention. 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:04.400 And you've said this interesting thing, right? 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:13.359 Because I what I'm trying to say is I think there is a certain core about this way of being in the world that will never make you happy. 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:16.160 Because you could have missed something. 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:21.279 And if your goal is to do everything, you will never meet your goal. 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:21.839 Never. 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:23.359 It's not possible. 00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:28.079 And I know I'm talking about tourism, but I'm really talking about God. 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:32.480 I'm really talking about how we relate to God. 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:34.079 And that's life. 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:35.599 Would you have a view? 00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:41.200 Yeah, I mean, again, if this is the way I view the world, in some ways this is my whole theology. 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.799 God expects me to not miss anything. 00:23:45.039 --> 00:24:05.200 And I had an opportunity to help somebody with a bag lunch, or to listen to somebody who was broken and I was so busy and I missed it, or I could have given another 3% to the church last year, or I could have, I could have, I could have, and how disappointed I've made God. 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:10.000 This really comes back to do we disappoint God or not? 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:21.920 I have always felt, and even at 68, I still feel somewhat this way, and that's that to use kind of a math analogy. 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:28.720 There's the X or the Y and the X-axis, and then there's there is a zero point. 00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:35.680 And that zero point is below it you are failing, and you're gonna be punished by God. 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:50.400 And above it, you can celebrate, but you better not, you better be careful because because you behind you is that that that step change that drops you back below zero. 00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:57.359 And so I've always I've always felt that about all I can do is get up to zero and just try to stay there. 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.880 Yeah, because even if you do something great, what are you gonna do next? 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:06.319 Well it's not like you can sit there and enjoy what you just did, because you've got to do something else now. 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:08.400 You've got to beat your own love. 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:10.960 And see, I didn't, John, I don't want to tell you that you're wrong. 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:15.119 I just want to say that's exactly what I'm talking about with our belief. 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:16.880 What do we really believe? 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:22.400 What do we trust about God that we are inherently disappointing? 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:32.559 That we have to keep treading water to stay afloat in God, or do we trust that if we stopped, we would float? 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:34.799 Is that our culture? 00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:36.960 Well, everybody's culture. 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:38.960 It's clearly not everybody's culture. 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:42.960 I mean, now listen, I think this is part of the difference between type A and type B. 00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:48.640 I think this is part of a difference between whether you're a saver or a spender or somewhere in between. 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:53.359 I think this is the predictor based on the Stanford marshmallow test. 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:56.960 Will you hold it for 15 minutes or will you eat it immediately? 00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:04.319 I think it's all of those things, but I think all of that comes back to how do we understand God? 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:07.599 It's not just culture. 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:11.279 I mean, our culture tells us who God is. 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.720 And we buy it or we spit it out. 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.799 I mean, I this I think is part of our deal. 00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:25.119 And so um I hope I've gotten time too off track, but I think John is really asking us to think about what do we believe. 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:26.960 What do we believe? 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:36.319 And I'm gonna do one other thing with you about a couple of words, and then let's come straight back to the reading and see if this was all a waste of time or not. 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:46.240 Um, I got these three words, and I still remember them from 19 years ago when I was uh what was I a senior in college? 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:48.160 I was a sophomore in college. 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:54.880 Now, if you know your prayer book, you're gonna be disappointed that I changed this up. 00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.319 These are words that we often use, and John talks about signs. 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:04.640 I mean, I rem I remember this as from a 19-year-old. 00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:12.559 My professor told me, when the thunder claps on the night get up and say, a sign points to a reality deeper than itself. 00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:14.960 That's what a sign does. 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.400 Points to a reality deeper than itself. 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:24.640 Street sign is a name, but it's deeper than the actual signpost, right? 00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:28.799 It points to a reality of nomenclature and orientation in the world. 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:39.200 Jesus does these signs, and if we just think about him bringing a dead person back to life, we missed the reality deeper than itself. 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:44.079 Jesus is not interested in resuscitating dead people. 00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:47.599 So, what's the reality? 00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:49.680 It's about new life. 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.920 You don't have to be dead to get new life. 00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:57.680 I mean, if if we just think about it that way, we missed it. 00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:02.960 Symbol, if you're an Episcopalian, this is your definition of sacrament. 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.680 A symbol is an outward sign of an inward reality. 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:13.759 An outward sign points to reality of an inward reality. 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:19.920 Now, if you know your prayer book, a sacrament is an outward and visible sign of an inward and spiritual grace. 00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:27.920 That's a s but that's really a symbol in the nomenclature I memorized as a 19-year-old, and I think it's right. 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:39.359 Because a sacrament is a way of participating in God without exhausting participation in God. 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:46.480 It's a way of participating in God without exhausting what it means to participate in God. 00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.400 So think about our sacraments. 00:28:49.039 --> 00:29:00.240 There are ways in which we participate in God, like we have the Eucharist, and we have anointing with oil, and we have marriage and ordination and reconciliation and confirmation. 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.400 But none of those things exhaust what it means to be in God. 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:09.920 In fact, I would tell you, I think teaching and learning are sacramental. 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:13.119 There are ways of participating in God. 00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:14.880 There's other ways, there's more than that. 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.599 I don't know that we ever get the whole deal. 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.079 So these are just ways. 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.200 They're also symbolic and they're signatory. 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:32.799 I want to put that up in front of you because we're gonna look at those today and next week. 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:35.839 Signs, symbols, and sacraments. 00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:14.720 I don't want to do things because I just want to you know, I don't it's not uh it's not something that uh uh that I have to do at all. 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.559 But I don't have to kind of know where I probably would have been. 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:36.880 Um I think aging, one of the benefits of aging is that you can look back on things and say, you know, that really wasn't worth the effort. 00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:38.799 You know, so I don't want to think that again. 00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:45.839 Um but the thing about God is yes, the key word is trust. 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:49.200 And I think a second keyword is thank you. 00:30:50.640 --> 00:31:01.759 Um when I uh I felt like oh my god, like when I had as an adult decided thank we're gonna go. 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:08.400 And um felt like I wanted to be a relationship. 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:27.200 And so um what you suggested to me is to make a box for Thanksgiving, you know, and just thank God for the son and all this other stuff, and that sort of opening up. 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:32.400 But they're also getting a day when over now. 00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:38.960 I want a conscious loving relationship. 00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:47.599 Yes, I believe in God and I know learn God and I go to church on Sundays and I participate in classes and so on, but I want something deeper. 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:51.119 I want a consciousness. 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.480 During the day, I want to be able to think of it. 00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.119 I want to be able to remember that God is with me. 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:02.720 So I asked for God for a spiritual card. 00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:13.359 I got one, and that one day I was at church, and the lady who was in the bookstore, she came and brought me a card. 00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.799 And this man said, and she said, This man likes to call me. 00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:24.720 And I know who that man was, and he ended up being my spiritual character, and he helped me learn how to talk. 00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:43.440 But the thing is this, is that the life that God is a man, and it's one that I feel like we one of the ways to force is to be consciously aware of God, not just a God of all the time. 00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:48.079 And um the key is right. 00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.160 And that's a hard thing to learn. 00:32:52.720 --> 00:33:02.160 And uh and when you know, and when we get to these different levels of spirituality, uh, that doesn't mean all these other things go away, you know. 00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:05.119 I still deal with, am I doing enough? 00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:11.920 You know, maybe uh, you know, because you know, when you're my age, you ain't got a lot of time left. 00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:17.599 So you better be you know examining some things thinking, am I doing enough? 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.799 And uh because, oh I know the good game of song. 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:32.720 But anyway, uh so and um, you know, it's I also have to deal with this, I have got to have something to do for God. 00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:37.599 You know, I can't just sit around and do nothing. 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:43.039 But the other alternative would be I could spend more of the day in prayer. 00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:48.160 But I'm not a that I I do have definite times. 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:52.799 But there are also times that I want to be present, too. 00:33:53.440 --> 00:34:15.280 You know, so all I'm saying is that just becoming consciously aware of God of that is that we need a ton of science every day that all you can spare is ten minutes and starting. 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:28.079 Whereby it's just you like to have a cup of tea or a cup of coffee, and you know, you can have prayer with you, or you can sit and listen and you can go on. 00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:29.519 I mean, that's your time. 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:40.000 And God takes that, and you have gone and you're being faithful to that time, even though you feel like nothing's happening. 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:45.760 God honors that and brings about changes to the individual. 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:46.719 Okay. 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:51.199 And then you find, you may find that well, you want a little more for a time. 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:57.199 You know, so so these things have a way of working themselves out. 00:34:57.440 --> 00:34:57.920 Yeah. 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:03.199 We say, okay, I really do want to see God. 00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:05.519 You know, I want to know more about God. 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:07.199 It's a two-way street. 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:11.440 God's gonna be kept calling you in all kinds of different ways. 00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.039 And things is are we in the hearing? 00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:28.400 You know, you get this idea, or you get this feeling of what you're God, or somebody says something to you, and you think there comes a time when we have to make a decision one way or another. 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:39.199 And when we make the decision to go for God, well, then that's when our reality begins to really change because God's right there in the wheels helping us to do that. 00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:55.199 And uh there are times when I have uh uh just been told, I noticed things in myself, and I have just been told it, gee, we have to be God, you know. 00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:13.440 So anyway, I'm gonna say, but the thing is, I I think you know, you talk about the cross, and you know, I think when then you say, Five mic, that when the outstretched arms represent God is with us, but uh vertical being is transcendence. 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:18.800 And I think what we're missing out on a lot is the transcendent part. 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:29.119 And that uh, and of course we all get there, but so a lot of people don't know how to do it. 00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:36.960 I think that the the difficult thing about it though is which God are you spending 10 minutes with? 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:42.960 The transactional God or the one who actually enjoys you like you are. 00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:44.239 Can I ask a question? 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:45.920 Yeah, was it John? 00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:53.199 Was it I I maybe making this up, but it was either something you said or in the videos kind of near the beginning of this. 00:36:54.079 --> 00:37:01.760