The Brooks Show
Join Brooks Antle as he sits down with guests from all walks of life for honest conversations about current events, public policy, culture, faith, and the people making a difference in their communities.
The Brooks Show
Chip Keating for Governor: Fighting Waste, Fraud & Abuse in Oklahoma
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode of The Brooks Show, I sit down with Chip Keating to discuss his campaign for Governor of Oklahoma and the issues he believes will shape the state's future.
We dive into government waste, fraud, and abuse, Oklahoma's response to illegal drug activity, the rapid growth of AI and data centers, and the economic opportunities and challenges surrounding smelter plants and industrial development. We also discuss taxes, job creation, energy policy, and how Oklahoma can remain competitive while protecting taxpayers.
Whether you're interested in the future of Oklahoma's economy, government accountability, or the 2026 governor's race, this conversation provides an in-depth look at Chip Keating's vision for the state.
🎙️ Subscribe to The Brooks Show for more conversations with Oklahoma leaders, policymakers, and changemakers.
So if you are like me and you love your caffeine, go on down to Red Iron Coffee and pick yourself up some today. That's redironcoffee.com. Like I said, that's redironcoffee.com.
SPEAKER_02Great to have you on.
SPEAKER_00Well, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Thank you for doing this. Um, so before we get into some of the Oklahoma politics, I kind of want to get to uh get a little backstory on you. Um where you grew up and uh your time in uh the highway patrol.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, love it. So I'm originally from Tulsa. That's where I was born. I've been in Oklahoma City since uh 1995. I grew up in my more my high school life, graduated from high school in Oklahoma City, and uh, you know, I'm a unique uh candidate having a Tulsa and Oklahoma City background. But uh yeah, first job out of college, uh I'd always wanted to be in law enforcement and uh joined the uh Oklahoma Highway Patrol in 2001.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. So can you kind of tell us a little bit about your experience in the Highway Patrol? Maybe some significant uh runs you've made in your career, maybe some stories.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I got it. I don't know if we'll have time on this uh show, but yeah, I will tell you uh the patrol really, even to this date, what it stands for, uh going back to the uh training. Well, I graduated the 53rd Oklahoma Highway Patrol Academy. The core values of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol, whether it be honesty, integrity, professionalism, uh the there's just it's who I am. Uh once a trooper, always a trooper. We have an old saying in the patrol, you bleed brown. Uh troopers wear brown uniforms. It really is a family, uh, the selfless service of it. But yeah, I did it for just under four years. Uh started in Tulsa after patrol school and moved back to Oklahoma City, worked uh the hoot shift eight to six in the morning. So I've seen a lot of crazy stuff, been in a lot of uh dangerous situations, a lot of pursuits, a lot of fights, shootings, etc. So um a very uh obviously a dangerous job, but something I wanted to be in law enforcement my whole life. I thought that was going to be God's plan for me. Originally, ever since I was a little boy, I thought I wanted to be a Secret Service agent, but God had different plans. I didn't want to leave Oklahoma when I applied for the feds uh just because I love Oklahoma so much and I wanted to stay here, and so went uh trusted in uh the great Lord and went in the private sector, and that's where I cut my teeth in the oil and gas business. And my wife and I started dating in college, uh, our freshman year, and um we just love Oklahoma. And so uh God had different plans for me, and I uh trusted in the Lord and went in the private sector, but uh obviously something very important to me are first responders and law enforcement, and so I've stayed very involved uh in those organizations and in the first uh responder community ever since I've left the patrol. So really I haven't left, it's still very much a part of who I am.
SPEAKER_02We love it. Thank you. Um moving on into some politics with the um popularization of the no tax um on um no pro no income tax in Oklahoma. I wanted to kind of get your insight on that and where you stand with uh the popularization of that policy.
SPEAKER_00Well, there's no question. If you look at really uh some of the the states that are from an economic perspective are really winning across the United States, the common theme is zero income tax states are the highest growth states. And so taxing, you know, taxing work uh is not uh a good form of public policy. And so we really have to find a way for Oklahoma to get to a no-income tax state. I very much support uh a zero percent income tax state. Other states have figured it out. Uh it's easy to point to Texas and Florida. I mean, those are massive economies, though, from uh just you know a GDP perspective. But we can look to other states like Tennessee, like Mississippi, like South Carolina, like Nevada, like South Dakota, that have also uh done this and really see what they are doing from an economic prosperity perspective, from an uh you know, growth perspective. And I've talked one of the central themes, Brooks, on our campaign trails. Obviously, in Oklahoma, we're a very conservative state, but we don't govern that way. Uh we really govern like Democrats over the last 20 years, and spending's a very big problem. Even the very conservative states that don't have an income tax, you've got to rein in spending. And year over year, for the last 20 years, Oklahoma's budget's grown 18% a year, and wages haven't kept up. And so to get to a no-income tax state, which we can do and we can grow revenue in our state, um, we've got to frankly get spending under control and start acting and governing like conservatives.
SPEAKER_02Why do you think the spending is out of control currently?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think that's part of our populist nature. I mean, we, you know, claim to be a conservative red state, and I think and we are. I mean, I think our values represent that, but we don't govern that way. And so if you look at Oklahoma, and part of our theme and part of our campaign's been around sound public policy is replicatable, and we can look at other states that have done it right and not try science experiments. We don't need to do that in 2026. And Arkansas's a very good example of a state that got serious about modernizing their government. And if you know this were our 1907 moment, our statehood moment, will we set up Oklahoma the way we set it up today? The answer is no. And Oklahoma has 380 agencies, boards, and commissions in our state. 380. To put that in perspective, Arkansas had 258 years ago. Today they have 15. And so they got serious about modernization, integration of uh their their government, and they didn't cut services to their citizens, they actually uh streamlined services, cut red tape, cut bureaucracy, and then cut through all the waste, fraud, and abuse. And over time, as you become a big government state like Oklahoma has become, we have a lot of waste fraud and abuse uh inside that apparatus. And it's gonna take someone that frankly is gonna get serious about doing that before we can do very meaningful uh tax reform. And we've got to do both. But you gotta, you know, I like to say you gotta crawl before you walk.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. And why do you think this is something that's so popular now and hasn't been implemented in the past with uh no tax on uh income?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think today, if you just look at a lot of the measurable outcomes and where Oklahoma sits in the the outcome rankings, I think people are waking up to our moment, and that's why this election is so consequential. When you are at the bottom of the heap in a lot of these measurable outcomes, people activate. And so it's easy when Oklahoma was treading water at 45th or 46th in a lot of the outcomes, but we're at the bottom now. And you know, 10 years ago, Oklahoma used to say, Thank God for Mississippi. Well, today, states like Mississippi, states like Arkansas say, Thank God for Oklahoma. And I think that's a wake-up moment for our people. That I mean, in fact, as I travel the state, it is a wake-up moment. And so I think this truly is our crossroads. And I think this is such a consequential election uh in our state history that it really is going to take somebody that's gonna come serve and go back to the private sector. And look, I'm running against a field of gentlemen that combined have spent 30 years uh as elected officials in that building. And so, you know, it's a simple question to voters. You know, if you're satisfied, you know, that one in four eighth graders can't read and write, if you're satisfied we're number one per capita incarcerated, or if you're satisfied we tax everything under the sun, if you're satisfied that we have an illicit drug problem, vote for one of those guys. But if you believe Oklahoma is better, we can be better for our family, for our kids, for our grandkids, I'm asking for Oklahomans to vote for me. And someone who's taken an oath to protect and serve, someone who's worn a badge and a gun, someone who's signed a payroll and built successful businesses right here in our state. And I want to run to do just that, to be a selfless leader and then to go right back to the private sector. And I think that's missing from politics today.
SPEAKER_02Right. And with your background, I mean, you know the drug game probably just as well as anybody doing what you did in the highway patrol. I mean, you saw it firsthand, you see it uh on a day-to-day basis in that line of work, as I do in my line of work. Um, what would be the first thing you what would the first steps be in attacking that situation, getting drugs off the street and eliminating the problem with drugs, um, the homeless problem that's just it just seems to keep intensifying, and uh drugs seem to be kind of an underlying issue for the cause of it.
SPEAKER_00Well, there's no question. I mean, the reality is number one per capita incarcerated, 50th in literacy, those two metrics directly correlated. Then we passed an illicit drug. Medical marijuana is not what Oklahoma has. I mean, we're a narco state. We have 1,400 grows, 2,800 dispensaries. We were responsible for 60% of all black market marijuana in the United States last year, came out of Oklahoma. 1,200 of the 1,400 dispensaries are illegal. I'm sorry, the grows are illegal. They're run by the CCP, the Sinaloa cartel, you know, the Irish mob, the Russian mob. I mean, we literally have a criminal network inside of Oklahoma. Behind door number two is meth production, fentanyl production, heroin production, human trafficking, sex trafficking, money laundering. The list goes on and on. We got to cut the head off the snake. Day one as governor through an EO, I'm gonna uh activate the National Guard, declare a public safety emergency, and we're gonna give the highway patrol that's short 400 troopers today, the OBN short 100 agents, all 77 sheriff's departments in our state are short manpower resources. We know exactly where all these illegal grows are. We're gonna give the men and women that are doing this work the resources they need to cut the head off the snake. Then we're gonna go actually do what the legislature has totally and utterly failed to do over the last eight years, and we're gonna make medical marijuana medical. Looking to Arkansas again, our neighbor to the east, they have nine grows and 38 dispensaries. They have a doctor-patient relationship to be able to have a medical marijuana card. The dispensaries are treated like pharmacies. That's a far cry from what Oklahoma has right now. We truly are an illicit drug state. And then you you bring up a very good point. To tackle homelessness, to tackle the mental health crisis that our state's currently under, you've got to root out the foundational problem of that, and that's dope. And so it is time to get serious about being a law and order state, and then we can go address the homelessness in the in the mental health crisis that, frankly, has been self-induced here because of total and utter lack of leadership in our state.
SPEAKER_02Right. It seems like every small town you drive through, there's almost more dispensaries than there are dollar generals, um, especially in the larger cities, just dispensaries everywhere. And the, of course, that that um that feeds into the mental health crisis, feeds into all of it. But why do you think this was allowed to happen? How how did we how did we end up this way? What was some things we could have done to prevent this?
SPEAKER_00Well, first and foremost, I mean, looking at a post-mortem on this, when we as a state passed state question 788, we did not regulate how many um grow licenses that we would issue. And so at one point, right out the gate, I think we issued 12,000 grow licenses. I don't know who in their right mind thought that this was going to be a great idea. And it was a money grab. Typical tax and spin, big government, hey, let's charge 7,500 bucks for a license. And so we've created a totally unregulated and uncontrolled uh uh drug crisis in Oklahoma. And you are right. I mean, I played a little game. We were down in uh Duncan uh probably about a month ago, going to a Stevens County fish fry and starting at the north side of the town, the south side of the town. It's not just in the metropolitan areas in Oklahoma. We played a game with some of my team in the car, count the dispensaries. There were 12 dispensaries from the north side of the town to the south side of the town in Duncan, Oklahoma. I mean, this is just crazy. And also, in order to get a medical marijuana card, frankly, it's you you you apply, you have a telehealth uh appointment with a doctor in India and tell them you have a headache, and 72 hours later you have a you know a card in the mail. I mean, this is just absolutely nuts to me.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, and this is an issue that I'm you know it's near and dear to me just because in my line of work I see it every every day when I'm at work, and so um I really appreciate that. And uh moving on to tribal relations, I know this has been a uh a conversation of contention. There's been a lot of back and forth, and I see right now that uh between the governor and the tribes, the relationship there is kind of you know, at a stalemate, is kind of divided. What would you do as governor to bring the tribes back to the table and build that relation?
SPEAKER_00Well, the first thing I'm gonna do is the EO, right, that we just talked about uh in a and declare a public safety emergency because we're in one right now in Oklahoma. The second thing I'm gonna do, I'm gonna sit down with, frankly, uh all the leaders of uh all our tribes in Oklahoma right away and invite them, and we're gonna hit the reset button. We have to. Oklahoma's been compacting with our wonderful uh Native American partners for over a hundred years. We have to get back to that. We have to hit the reset button. We've got to figure out a way behind closed doors and figure out how we can work together and come out united for Oklahoma because the tribe should play and must play an important role in moving our state forward, and they can be a very, very uh integral uh partner with the state in solving a lot of the problems that are facing the state.
SPEAKER_02Okay, thank you. Um I also I watched the debate that you guys had the other night, and it's one of the conversations that got a little heated was the conversation about the smelter plant in Inola, and you know, some people, especially the attorney general, being uh, you know, petitioning to get that shut down, and then you have uh Maisie on the other end who is completely for it. Where do you stand on that smelter plant and possibly more smelter plants moving into Oklahoma?
SPEAKER_00Well, first off, uh they're a bunch of flip-floppers. I mean, Maisie and Drummond don't stand for anything. I mean, they stand for obviously pandering uh in and and what's going to be politically beneficial for them. So as I said at the say on that debate stage, you know, to the attorney general, this was such a concern. Why is he waiting two weeks, you know, before an election? Why is he waiting, you know, the following week after he doesn't get an endorsement that he so desperately was going after to totally flip-flop on this and file an injunction?
SPEAKER_02Does a lot of this stem from that Trump endorsement, you think?
SPEAKER_00Of course it did. The timing of that is not coincidental. And then the same thing with Maisie, here he was totally against this for the last year on the campaign trail, and an hour before an endorsement comes that he, you know, gets through Roger Stone, not in a relationship with the president, it's now the best thing that's ever come to Oklahoma. So where's the integrity and where are you in standing for principle? What I've said all along from the very beginning of my campaign is local control is paramount in Oklahoma. We are a populist state. If the residents of INOA want this project, we should respect local control. I am all for jobs and economic growth and prosperity in our state. Where I want to be very careful as a state going forward is the subsidies. A $255 million subsidy on the backs of taxpayers of Oklahoma's to out-of-state or out-of-country operatives to come to Oklahoma at the same time that our farmers are getting creamed with fertilizer costs and tariffs, et cetera. And that's the third largest industry in our state. We're handing out giveaways to out-of-state companies. Subsidies should follow jobs and they should not be given on the front end. They should be earned after whatever it is coming to Oklahoma has proven that there was an economic benefit to it. And always be mindful of local control. So we need more industry in Oklahoma, no question. But we need to be very smart and very measured how we deal with subsidies going forward.
SPEAKER_02Right. And you see that that uh like the UAE company that's going to be owning 60% of this uh smelter plant, how does that benefit anybody in Oklahoma for a United Arab Emirates company owning, you know, a majority stake in this company?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, look, I I think that begs the question. I mean, the fact that UAE wants to make an investment in America and specifically Oklahoma, I don't think is uh a problem. The problem is that investment is made on the backs of the taxpayer of Oklahoma, that $255 million subsidy. That's where I think we as a state need to be much more measured and much more disciplined how we deal with those. So I don't want to discourage investment into our state that are good for our jobs and for our economy. I want to be very mindful that what the taxpayers in Oklahoma are going to be on the hook for. And I that is what really should be questioned here with this whole thing.
SPEAKER_02Right. And moving to the AI data centers, especially the one we're seeing that's um kind of moving along there in Claremore. I there's tons of um citizens who are not on board with this, and they would love to bring it to a vote of the people. Um, how how do you feel about that? Where do you see that going and leading?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I think this again, uh something we've said day one is how AI and data centers are coming. They're here in the United States, they're not going away. This is a national security issue. China's trying to win, India's trying to win, the U.S. must win. Now, where we need to be fearful as Oklahomans and as a state, we need a lead on what it is that we should be concerned about. Power, water, local control, and subsidies. I'm not for subsidies for any of these. Again, back to like the uh aluminum smelter, be mindful of local control. If Claremore doesn't want data centers, they shouldn't have them. But if Northwest Oklahoma wants data centers, then Northwest Oklahoma can make that decision. The ratepayers of Oklahoma should not be on the hook for any of this. And frankly, they shouldn't be able to use our water. So if the state can lead and establishes the parameters, that then we leave it to local control. We shouldn't just say no to it because it's a national security issue. We're so blessed in Oklahoma to live on top of an ocean of natural gas. We have the power to do this behind the meter. We need natural gas turbine manufacturing to be brought into our state. That is exactly what I'll do as governor. Then you can provide the power needs directly at the well head and use produce water. All of our wells in Oklahoma produce salt water, and there's technology there today that you can descale that water on a loop system for the cooling and not use our groundwater. So there are ways to do this and do it uh, frankly, smartly, and not just let it be a free-for-all open game season in Oklahoma. We cannot make the mistakes we made in the wind industry, you know, 15 years ago.
SPEAKER_02Right. Okay. And so I want to talk a little bit about the freezing of property taxes for seniors and veterans and get your insight on that, what that looks like, what that means, and where you stand on that uh on that situation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we I think that is uh a common theme you'll hear with all the candidates. No question, the concept of being free of the government, you know, and not having to pay rent to the government is something I'm very interested in. To get there though, I really go back, Brooks. We we we can't grow government 18% a year and cut taxes at the same time. Those two are those two concepts uh don't work hand in hand. So we've got to get spending under control, we've got to modernize the footprint of our state, and we absolutely, day one, can freeze property taxes for 63-year-olds and above. But the idea of totally getting rid of property taxes entirely, I think is very far-fetched. You've seen a lot of states try to do this, states that are a lot richer than Oklahoma, and they still haven't been able to do it. And so we have to find a replacement uh mechanism to fund roads and bridges, education, law enforcement, et cetera, than to just eliminate them entirely. And so we absolutely should, though, at 63 freeze them for our seniors, freeze them for our vets, and then let's start really figuring out how we get our spending under control. Oklahoma, so we can provide meaningful tax relief to Oklahomans, whether it be income tax, property taxes, et cetera. But we got to find other revenue opportunities in our state to grow our economy. Data centers could be one of those if we do it smartly. You know, those opportunities and a way to tax that, so long as they follow the parameters that we just outlined and described, we should be very fearful of just saying no entirely to it.
SPEAKER_02Okay. And I know this kind of ties into everything you've been saying, but I've I did a study on um, I believe it was in 2010, the average age of a first-time homebuyer, so this would be their first home they're buying, was uh 32 years old, and now that average age in Oklahoma is it's anywhere between 38 and 40. And so it just seems like it's getting harder and harder for younger um people, younger couples to be able to afford a home in Oklahoma, and that's why that age is continuing to continuing to rise. How can we you know mitigate that and help younger people get back in their homes? Is there a plan with um with helping younger people uh financially be able to afford homes here in Oklahoma?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I've seen that as well. I've seen it as high as 42 years old. Right. And so obviously uh inflation's real. Uh cost of goods is very real. One of the easiest ways, Brooks, is you think about what do we need to do to make sure more uh inventory is being uh delivered for first-time home buyers. I'm the huge fan of making our city council, our school board elections, all to be in June and November. And if you see, you know, picking on some of the municipalities, there's a lot of municipalities that try charge double impact fees uh for new uh lot development. It's made it harder and harder and harder for new developments for home builders. And I've spent a lot of time talking to home builders, and so, you know, these home builders aren't just going to absorb these fees that these municipalities are imposing on them, they're passing them down to the home buyers. And so, not to single out one particular city around the Oklahoma City Metroplex, but they charge double impact for development, and these are $25,000 times twice, what times two. So when that happens, that cost is being directly passed down to the first-time home buyer. And so what we've seen is the cost of buying you know a home in Oklahoma keeps going up because those developers are not absorbing those fees. So getting back to we've got to start running government, frankly, the way it's intended to be run, and not as these profit centers, the way we screwed up with all the marijuana licenses. That's not how government's supposed to work. We see that happening with a lot of the uh municipal um uh municipalities around the state. And I think it's all around when elections are. We have the lowest voter turnout state of any state in the nation. And so, you know, in March school board and city council elections, you know, lower voter turnout is it benefits the Democrats. So why are we not just doing elections in June and November? And then obviously in Oklahoma, insurance is a big deal. And so that also, you know, when you go get your you know, first loan and get a mortgage out, you know, that those insurance premiums are spread through to your uh principal taxes and insurance with homeownership. So the fact that Oklahoma is 2x what the national average is for insurance, it's just big bureaucracy. What in the world? We need more enterprise, more options. We need a bigger marketplace in Oklahoma for insurers to come and do business here. The myth that it's all weather driven is just I don't buy that. It's not true. Other states like Texas, states like Florida have very uh complicated weather like Oklahoma do.
SPEAKER_02Louisiana.
SPEAKER_00Louisiana. Yeah, we have bad public policy. And so when are we gonna wake up and get serious about sound public policy?
SPEAKER_02This is an issue that hasn't been reined in already.
SPEAKER_00I think that's why I'm running for governor. I think you see a bunch of office hoppers that are frankly all for political special interests and not representing the voters of Oklahoma. I really do. It's hard, it's not easy to run for office today. I think it uh doesn't favor people wanting to step up, serve, and go back to the private sector. It becomes a career for people. And so I really believe it's a leadership vacuum, uh, is what we've been experiencing. So common sense. Let's just do common sense. Let's look at what other states are doing and deliver that in Oklahoma. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. And I think that is one of the biggest things about my campaign. Get back to common sense. That's what people want. Quit being so political and let's just do things that we know make sense.
SPEAKER_02Right. And with the current administration, with Governor Stitt, I would like to ask, what are some things that you have really aligned with him on and what are some things you would do differently? I know that uh you had we had talked a little bit about the tribes and there would be some differences there, but what else could you point to that you think you would do maybe a little different?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think, you know, I think Governor Stitt uh clearly wants a limited government approach. I think Governor Stitt wants to see more economic prosperity and opportunity under our state. I think Governor Governor Stitt wants to see a lower taxation state. I think the biggest difference is between the two of us is day one, I understand that the governor's power in Oklahoma is weak constitutionally. The legislature is a strong form of government. You've got to go into the this position out the gate, and you've got to lead, set a mandate, set a vision for Oklahomans, but let the legislature take the credit. You can't frankly tell the legislature what they're gonna do. I mean, they're the powerful form of government. So the bully pulpit is the tool the governor has to really lead the populous nature of our state. And so how I will work with the legislature day one uh will be very different. And then obviously with the tribes, very different. Day one, work with the tribes, don't fight with the tribes. And I think it's the same concept with the legislature. Work with the legislature and not fight the legislature and go protect them. You get a lot more done when you don't care against the credit.
SPEAKER_02Of course. And I know you're on a time crunch, so I want to close this out with asking you what does Oklahoma look like and how does Oklahoma benefit from a chip keating governor?
SPEAKER_00Well, very clearly, four years from now, I we are gonna be at a zero income tax state. Four years from now, we're not gonna be dead last in literacy. I mean, my my hope would be we'd be at you know, 20 or 25. Under a Keating administration, we've got to start setting priorities, setting visions, setting long-term goals, and sticking with them. Four years from now, we're not gonna be an illicit drug state. There's gonna be accountability if you break the law. We can't just turn our backs to dope. If we want to break systemic poverty in our state, we got to start with drugs. And so, under a Keating administration, a zero income tax state, property taxes free for our seniors, uh, educational outcomes meaningfully move in the right direction, and we are rooted. This great state will illicit drugs out of here immediately.
SPEAKER_02Okay, thank you so much, Mr. Keating. Thank you for being on the show. I really appreciate it, and I hope to uh see you in the future and possibly do another uh another show with you.
SPEAKER_00Let's do it. Well, Brooks, thanks for having me, and make sure your uh viewers go vote tomorrow. Please, I'd be honored, humbled to have your vote, vote for Chip Keating, and uh we can do better than this, but we need real leadership and the career politicians aren't going to get us there. So God bless you and thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Yes, sir. Thank you.