The Bravery of Self Reinvention | Dr. Navin Goyal, MD

Dr. Navin Goyal, physician-turned-entrepreneur, author, co-founder of LOUD Capital and co-founder of OFFOR Health joins the Hunting Bravery podcast for a powerful conversation on mindset, growth and the courage to embrace uncertainty. Drawing from his experiences in medicine, entrepreneurship and leadership, Dr. Goyal shares how bravery is built through daily choices, self-awareness and the willingness to keep moving forward despite fear or failure. The episode explores personal development, mental resilience and the importance of staying authentic while pursuing meaningful work, reminding listeners that growth begins when we stop playing it safe and start trusting our own path.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Quick question, what would you do if fear wasn't allowed to vote? Today, we're gonna find out. Bravery isn't the absence of fear, it's the decision to move anyway. Welcome to Hunting Bravery. I'm Amy Sewee, and this show is about the moments that change us, the quiet decisions, the uncomfortable truths, and the courage it takes to step into a life that actually feels like yours. Here, we talk to people who've taken the leap, sometimes boldly, sometimes trembling, but always honestly. Because bravery doesn't always look heroic. Sometimes it looks like saying yes. Sometimes it looks like walking away. Today, we're hunting a different kind of predator. The thoughts, fears, and beliefs that keep us small. Okay, today's guest is Naveen Goyle MD, a physician-turned entrepreneur who has made a brave decision to step beyond the traditional path and build a life focused on impact, growth, and service in new forms. After 13 years as an anesthesiologist and medical director, Naveen took a leap that many only think about, transitioning fully into entrepreneurship and venture capital. Along the way, he co-founded Offer Health, a mobile healthcare company now delivering care to more than 13,000 children each year by reducing barriers to access. He also co-founded Loud Capital, investing in mission-driven companies and helping build an ecosystem, Loud Collective that brings together leadership, data, and operational expertise to create real business value. Navine is also the author of Physician Underdog, where he shares his journey from medicine to entrepreneurship and a co-creator of Beyond Physician, a platform helping medical professionals create alternative income streams by monetizing their expertise. In this conversation, we explore what it takes to leave certainty behind, how courage evolves as responsibility grows, and why mental fitness and daily habits are essential when building a purpose-driven life. Navine reminds us that bravery isn't just about bold moves, it's about staying grounded, humble, and intentional as you grow. So we are honored to have you here, Navine. Thank you so much for coming.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Thanks for that. Uh that intro is so long. It seems like I'm like robotic, you know? It's like then this happened, then this happened. But it's interesting to hear that read.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah, like all of the things. There's so many things. That's it's amazing to me, all the things that you've accomplished. So you did. You started off as an anesthesiologist. What made you decide to pivot and take that leap into doing something totally different?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, and I think um it's a great question. And I, you know, when people do ask me that, we tend to say it's this decision or pivot, right? But it's really these like things that have added up. And so one of the things I'll start with is when you're young, you decide a career many times, right? So, like to be a physician, you have to know that kind of early. And for me, it was grade school, and I went throughout college four years, medical school four years, and then anesthesiology training, which was four years. And then there's more training if you want to. And I was like, all right, I'm ready to get a job and get me, you know? I guess. So I ended up um getting a private practice job. And I think, you know, in the process of going through training, you get used to studying and learning for the next stage. And so by the time I was in private practice and I was on a earning money, which is a real job, which is scary. Then you resolve it's also like you take your boards, like board certification that you've heard of. So in the first couple years, the learning curve was actually really steep. Okay. So I'm learning and I'm growing and I'm nervous and I'm stressed, but that's actually what pushes me. Right. And after a few years, learning curve goes a little flat, get to know people. Hey Sally, how you doing? Blah, blah, blah. I'm not as stressed. And what's interesting is that's like, I was getting bored.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Yeah, yeah. I was just gonna say that's that's not your comfort zone anymore.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Like this stress, high energy, like all that is more and I feel like I I tell people no one tells us that we're going to evolve, change minds, you know, um, learn new things, be a different person. Like, no one tells us this, right? They just say, What do you want to be when you grow up? And okay, great, it's a great career. You should go that route. Right. So I felt guilty for feeling bored. I felt ungrateful for thinking I was grateful initially, but I was like, the fact that I'm thinking of something else, why am I like, what's going on? So I had to process that, I had to take layers, unlearn a lot of things that we've grown up with.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

And just to give you a little insight, I've had. So when I mentor like high school kids, I talked to business classes, et cetera, I say, I don't want to ask you what you want to do when you grow up. What I want to ask you is, what do you want to start with? Because it introduces the optionality and expectation to change and evolve.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

I think that's so important because, you know, as you're saying that, my mom was a teacher. She just retired, but she was a teacher for like 30 years. My dad had, you know, had an insurance company that he ran, you know, 30 years, whatever. And that's just the mindset that was from, you know, my parents' generation. And a lot of it was like you get with a good company and then you get pension and you know, say they're the whole and and so you're right, there's this sense of guilt when you don't want to follow that.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Yes. There's there's guilt, there's a little bit of shame, there's there's all these negative feelings for wanting to leave comfort, for wanting to pursue something that gives you energy, for wanting to, you know, like it's it's like, no, no, you should be miserable because you committed to this. Right. Yes. And and the more I talk about this, and you'll probably continue to have a a lot of conversations, um, more people want to change. Like more people want to do something because we're excited. And, you know, to be honest, I wanted to be a doctor to help people, and then you realize there's a bazillion ways to help people. You help people, right? There's yeah, there's there's a lot of different ways, and it doesn't come through the vehicle of one lens that we thought so as a child. Right. Or, you know, whenever. Right. So, so that's one perspective. I started getting bored, and then um I was reading the Wall Street Journal every day, the business section. This is when there was paper and we were reading it. There wasn't, I don't think the iPad and all that stuff was out yet. So I was reading the paper in between cases and stuff like that, and I always read the business section. And I got very curious about investors who would uh, you know, learn about the journey, be a part of the journey, make money off the journey of these large technology companies that were going public. At that time, it was Tesla, Apple, Amazon, these things were being spoken about. Okay. And I would read, you know, these early investors and these early, and I was like, what is this? Who are these people?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

So then I was curious, I was like, who, who's like, who are these people that get to look at these companies that potentially can become these big behemoths? Um, there's the monetary aspect, but then there's the journey aspect. Like, how cool would it be to know an Amazon or an Apple early in its world and and be on the little roller coaster and hear about it? So I got curious about that. So I started actually investing in some early stage companies because I was like, this is cool.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

And at that time, this was in Columbus, and Columbus was really becoming hot in the startup world. And uh, so I found some opportunities. Um, and then I also had the opportunity to start my first business, Offer Health.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Okay. And so, so that came. So, so tell us what Offer Health is.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

So, Offer Health, it stands like for Office OR.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Originally started out as a company called Smile MD. Okay. And essentially it's bringing anesthesia services to dental practices.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

So um originally wasn't that interesting. It was like a cosmetic dentist comes up to me and says, Hey man, I have a lot of uh clients that fly in into my practice from around the country. They pay a lot of money, and they actually really want an amazing experience. And a lot of times they're really anxious. And I can only do so much as a dentist. It'd be awesome to get an anesthesiologist in here and get them really comfortable, sleepy, whatever. And I said, never thought about a dental practice. Right. But instead of like shooting it down, I was curious. I brought it to a couple of my friends who were also anesthesiologists. We started talking about it, and several months later we started a business.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

No kidding.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Um, yeah. And that business was taking anesthesia services, so the the medications, the equipment, and then, you know, doing these cases, that's sometimes three, four hours of of work. Um, and so that was that was the plan to kind of be this lifestyle side gig. And then we got a dream call uh within a year from an insurance company that said, Hey, do you take care of children? And one of my co-founders is a pediatric anesthesiologist. And when you do anesthesia, it's kind of the spectrum in general. You kind of expect different ages, different sizes. And uh we said, yeah, we do, you know? And one, you know, a couple of months later we presented to this insurance company and they said, We have a lot of children on Medicaid who have dental disease and don't have access to the operating rooms. The only reason they need to go to the operating room is because they need anesthesia. Okay. So, like let's say a five-year-old child has unfortunately a lot of rotted teeth and need to be extracted. Okay. They go to the dentist, the dentist says, Oh my gosh, we need to take out these 10 teeth. Geez. Okay. Yep. So what do you think an average weight is for that child on Medicaid for a hospital just to get an operating room and get that done?

SPEAKER_01 10:02

I don't know. It's gonna be astronomical.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yeah, it's about one year. And in like let's say cities like Chicago, it's two years.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

So you're in pain, you can't eat. Yeah. So, and the reason is it's because the way the system is, because Medicaid doesn't reimburse well. You're a hospital, your operating rooms are high cost centers, and you basically are like an orthopedic surgery will reimburse well, right? So they prioritize the higher pain, which when you just look at numbers, it makes sense. It's just really unfair to the children who need that operating room, right? So that doesn't make sense. Um, but we know that's you know, sometimes it's just numbers they look at. Right. So basically, we take our anesthesia services and bring it to the dental office where they got diagnosed, put them off to sleep there, and get it done within a month. Wow. So we had a contract with insurance companies, and I mean, there's a whole story. I could talk about two hours. I mean, this is still developing, but it's 12, 12 years into it now. This past year we took care of 15,000 kids in five states. Um, and we have states that are calling us to come to theirs because that's so because it's so bad. But it influenced how I look at business, which is you want to build a solid, you know, obviously business model that can be sustainable and profitable. Um you are impacting people in some way, right? Um, and so like nowadays healthcare companies will say, Oh gosh, we help patients, and you're like, what do you do? And it's like, you know, I'm gonna throw this on the revel revenue cycle management on the back end, which is important, but that really doesn't impact patients. For sure. It impacts the top line of hospitals and and medical practice. So I just like, no, that's that doesn't impact people directly. So it really influenced how I look at business, which is to make a solid business to positively impact people. Um, and then just be creative. You know, for if you think about healthcare right now, it is a very thick and expensive thing that doesn't take care of a lot of people. But we were able to take some of the ingredients and create a new model. And it's really empowered me. It's um it's just really elevated like what else can we be doing with what we have in my lifetime. Right, right because people are like, oh, I want to build a new healthcare system. Great, okay, awesome, but that's gonna be a while. Like, what do we do now? Right, right. So, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Well, I think and and to that, so so you went from the, you know, one thing and you just kind of branched it off. You already knew all about anesthesiology, and you branched it off.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

And it kept kind of getting a little bit further away from from what you do. So it wasn't, so at this point, it wasn't like, you know, this giant leap. It was like, oh, I'm curious. And you know what? This makes sense. So let's do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

You know, and that's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

It was baby steps. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

And then when I look back, I'm like, built a business, brought in other executives with even different business experience because I didn't have any at the time. Right. So now I know how to build trust, delegate, build a business. And, you know, this is like really exciting here. It's humbling. All right. And so, and then the learning curve, like it's just astronomical. You there's so much to learn, and you, you know, and and it's it's very different for medicine because there's a roadmap in medicine. Okay, yeah. And and people ask me, what is what is harder? I mean, that's I think everything's hard and everything's challenging, but it's different. Yep. And so um, after starting that company and then doing some angel investing, then I ended up starting a fund, which, you know, because I was angel investing uh um and talking about it and passionate about it. I wasn't coming home and talking about anesthesia, but I was talking about this company. Yeah. And so um I became a business junkie, and people knew that around me, and they said, Well, I want to invest in it. I'm like, hey, I'll introduce you. They're like, Can I just give you money? And that's kind of how it started. Yeah. Um, and then we started a fund, um, and that fund became more funds. And then I was like, a few years into it, I was like looking back and uh, I'm like, I don't look at this job the same way. Um, I do want to tell you a moment where I was in the operating room, I was taking care of one patient, they were asleep, and I was grateful to be there, but my mind kept going to Offer Health's day, and they were taking care of about 50 patients that day in different states. Wow. And I said, I feel like I meant or I should be focusing on that. Focusing on a company that's taking care of 50 people right now and one person here. And again, not trying to be ungrateful, but and that's like that was a big shift in my mind. Yeah. And then I worked really hard to to make that happen. Wow. So that was a that's your answer that you asked 20 minutes. There are a question.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Oh, yeah, no, it was great. It's that that's and I love it because you took us through the whole thing and like your your mindset and how your mindset was changing. And that's I think the most important part because people, you know, that they'll look at somebody like you or like me and say, hey, you went from this to this. How did you do it?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

And that's a loaded question.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

I mean, everybody wants to know though. Yeah. Everybody wants to know because they want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

You know, most people, when they're asking this, they're they're like, okay, well, I have this thing that I think I want to do. I'm really nervous to do it. I'm really afraid to do it. How did other people do it? Like, give me the roadmap.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

I know.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Give me the roadmap so I can do it exactly like that. And the problem is there isn't one.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Everybody's journey is different. Everybody's aha moments are different. Everybody's experience is different.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Do you have an aha moment that you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

When I was in real estate, I loved it. Loved it. Every minute of it. I was good at it, had a team. And but I've always, you know, liked snakes. You know, my dad put me in a creek when I was little and taught me how to catch all kinds of critters. And I just had this fascination with snakes. You know, like, why isn't it kittens or puppies or something? Snakes. So um, but it was always a hobby, right? So I'm literally the the moment for me that I I knew I might not be on the right path is when I was in the in the car listening to Jack Hanfield, and he had these affirmations. And one of them was, are you living your best life? Um, are you are you on purpose? And my stomach like dropped. And I'm like, whoa, what the fuck was that? Yeah. Like, why did that just happen? And because I was happy. Like, I I wasn't looking for anything else. Every all of my goals revolved around growing my team and growing my business. And so from then on, I wasn't really searching because I had no idea what it would be.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

But I was just kind of like aware. And then it's like I find out there's Pythons in Florida, and then I catch one. I'm like, this is it. This is my purpose. I don't know how it's gonna work. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know what what this even is, but this is it. So it was like my my moment was not directly related to actually taking the leap, but it was just like, huh, there might be something else out there, even though I'm not looking.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Yeah. And I'm not even unhappy. Which I love that, by the way. I think that's even a if we had to take a broad message to people, it's almost like that you you're giving permission to people that you don't have to know what that j leap is, but you're open to making those steps or a leap. Right. Right. Yeah. Which I think like is really cool because I think mine sometimes goes into business and then it's like, oh gosh, I want to do it, and then I make it happen. Yours is actually like, I thought I was happy, but then there's like opening of like, maybe there's something greater for me, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And it's it's hard when you don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

And then and I don't even know where to look.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Because how long did you like that moment to when you heard about the Florida thing or saw something? Do you like months or like the next day?

SPEAKER_01 18:34

No, no, no, no. It was months. It was, I'm trying to think, I think probably like at least a year.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

At least a year. But I mean, I didn't slow down in real estate or anything. You know, I wasn't like, oh, I'm just giving up because there's something better. I don't know what it is. You know, I love that. So thanks.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Because I bet you a lot of people are there. A lot of people feel a little either unsettled or positively motivated, but they don't know what it is. And and that can be probably frustrating. Um that's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah, I think so. And I think that because I get people all the time that, you know, they're like, How did you know? How did you know it was right? And I'm like, I just did. Yeah. I mean, there's no way when I was up on that snake deck and I was, you know, on that first hunt, it's like I knew in my heart, just it all made sense. I was like, this is 100% what I'm supposed to be doing. I don't know how I'm gonna make it happen. I don't know what this even looks like. I don't even know where I am in the middle of the Everglades right now, but it's gonna happen. And then in less than two months, I sold my business. I rented a room from a guy I found online in Miami. I still can't believe I did that. And I moved to Florida to find out how to become a Python hunter. So that's wow. Yeah. Yeah. But so when you know, yeah, you know. So mine was very, it it was like a slow, but then it was like boom. Yeah, it just happened super fast. So with you, so what was what so what's next after that?

SPEAKER_00 20:07

So after after that, so then loud capital had started, and then I'm getting more into it. Now I have a full-time, I still had a full-time anesthesia job, have a family, yep, wife and two kids. Then I had offer health, which I had delegated, I brought in a CEO and and some people. And so from a daily operational aspect, I wasn't needed or involved, but I was still involved every day.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Can I stop you for one second? One of the things when I was in real estate that we were always striving for was to have somebody else run our businesses. And that was the hardest thing is to let go of that and let somebody else run it. How did you do that? I mean, was that easy for you?

SPEAKER_00 20:52

I'm gonna tell you, we're actually talking at a very interesting point if from that perspective, because um I am proud of that. I'm proud to build trust with people and they understand that whatever they're getting into with me, that I'm transparent and you know, um, and then to be able to delegate it, I've reflected on that. I think it's because when I was practicing full time, I literally didn't have the capacity, but I saw the opportunity. So I had to bring in someone. Okay. It wasn't like I was sitting here working in it and be like, I'm gonna delegate this. So that's number one. Okay, okay. And number two, I'm actually going back on, and I literally gave a talk three, four months ago on, and then to be able to trust people, uh build trust with people and delegate, like that is a skill you can build. And I still believe that, but I'm at a moment in time now where I am too far removed from a couple things that I started and I regret it. Really? Yes, and and and I won't go back, I wouldn't go back, it's just what I do moving forward because I needed to do that, and that's how I was able. To build these other skills and get to this clarity. Yep. But everything moving forward, I want to be pretty involved in. Um, and again, still delegate things, but just not be as proud to delegate most of it out.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Because then the meaning goes out. It's not just about building something and making money and feeling good that this company does this. There's not a meaning as much to me where I'm influencing the the change and and the decisions, which as a business junkie, that's what I that's what I enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah. Yeah. So you're delegating out the the best part for you.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yes. So I've learned that. So now it's like I'm in the happy medium, which is uh because I I think I'm gonna continue to start and build some companies. Yeah. Um, I think I'm kind of that's the person I am. Um, but I think I'm gonna do it in that manner, which is like the media medium. Yeah, you know, one foot in, maybe I don't know if that's good analogy, and um, you know, keeping your foot in.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's that's pretty, pretty awesome. Okay, so so where are we now?

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

I I I took a sidetrack.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

No, no, no. Apologies. You didn't, I was probably me. Um, so then by the end of 2019, I'm um overwhelmed and I had to make a decision. Now, one thing that I'm proud of is I'm usually pretty energetic and um present. Um, and I would have a couple partners in my anesthesia group say, Naveen, you look like a zombie when you walk in here. So I was feeling that, but when you get external observation, yeah, it's like, oh crap. Like I really can't be here anymore. Right. Right. Um, and then the business stuff was growing and going well. And every time I would, I would take a day off of my anesthesia job and go to my office and just just be enthusiastic. So I made the jump end of 2019. Okay. Um, and I said, worst case, I have a fallback, which as a physician is like a unique leverage point.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Um, I said, if this doesn't work out, I can always get a job and still provide for my family, like all that kind of stuff. For sure. But I wasn't thinking that way. Um, and you know, I haven't, I haven't really looked back. Um it was scary. I don't think there's ever a time where it like I think your conviction um is awesome. Like I I have to do this, like I know it. I almost was, if I had to reflect, I'm a very reflective person, especially the last five years with this change. It makes you really grow, right? For sure. And I've reflected, I think it was a little bit delusional, like a little bit like, oh, it's gonna work out. I didn't know if it was gonna work out, and I was scared as hell. And I had some of the closest people who knew me, um, like really happy for my success or happy for the moves that I made. But they did say, Are you sure though? You sure you want to leave this? And that scared the shit out of me. Yeah. Like I was like, wow, there's not one person who I can talk to outside the mirror that understands me, that understands this move.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

That's an interesting thing you said, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

So I I if it was lonely and and it was very lonely. And I have I've I've really like proud to have really close relationships, but there's still that, like, okay, like I support you.

unknown 25:29

Really?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah. Because um, and another thing is relatively young, so I was 41, 42 when I left, it was an early career from a physician standpoint. Anesthesiology is a considered a higher pain, good, um, relatively flexible work schedule. So it's like a aspirational piece of the physician world. Okay. And so, and then I'm in a good private practice, I'm a medical director, I have a good gig going on. So that's even more reason. People are like, you're not only leaving into this new world, you're like leaving what people covet.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Yes. I mean, people want their whole life goal. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

And you're like, mmm, yeah, that's not mine. And that's where guilt and shame and I see that that g guilt came in. And then I was also starting to go, because you know, we're our worst enemies. So then I'm like, wait a second, I took a spot in medical school and training. Now I'm gonna leave. Now there's gonna be patient. I mean, it's all this stuff. Yep, right. So, yeah, so that was the move I made. Um, and I think it, you know, all that like negative stuff or lonely stuff, but that's where that's where like that's where it, you know, it's quiet, and that's where you question yourself and you have to be so determined where you are alone, you feel like you made the decision alone, everyone's watching you, right? And so you you can't fail. And and I only say that, and and if someone was like next to me, I wouldn't be like, well, if and if it didn't work out and you had to go back, that's like you failed, like you disappointed everyone. No, but you have to you have to move forward, and whatever happens, you are gonna be a different person from it. And that's what I will tell someone who's about to jump is like whatever happens, it's gonna be a different world, and you're gonna be so much better of a person, you're gonna be way more aware, and you'll probably be humbled. And those skill sets and opening of the mind is gonna make your life way better, even if you fail and you have to go back.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

That is, I can't like I have been trying to figure out how to say that, and that's exactly what it is. I just never thought in the in that term. I think what about for people who who hear that and they don't have that growth mindset that, you know, you get you know burnt by the stove, you know, you don't put your hand on the stove anymore. I mean, but you know what I'm saying. You know, they they they got burned when they took a risk and they took a leap. And now they're like, mm-mm, I am not gonna do that again. I am not leaping out of my comfort zone anymore because I just got my butt kicked.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Yeah. So I think, I mean, I think there's a lot of people like that, risk averse, or something happened in the past and it's their obstacle. Um, you know, it it doesn't have to be this like big shift or big move, but um in the end, it has to come from them. So I've learned in those conversations, you offer, you share experiences. I would share ideas, like, okay, so you go to the same gym, you eat the same food, you have the same career, and because you changed one thing in the past, like you're scared to do anything right. So um I feel like this is my mood right now. I feel like I would just bring up like how comfort is killing your life. Like, how happy are you right now? You know, and and I I have a lot of these conversations where like happiness and and joy, like, are you as joyful as you were before? And I'm working on that too. Like I'm I'm learning to be like my teenage daughters who are just like laughing all the time. And I find myself saying, Hey, be quiet, like slow it down. And I'm like, wait a second, they're actually teaching me to like freaking perk up. Because I'm this boring adult, right? So, so that same like mentality or or kind of lesson is what I tried to open up with others who are thinking that way.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

And usually they the reason you're having that discussion is because they're looking for something. Yeah. So you kind of give them a little bit of an opening to what they're looking for, even if you don't know what it is, and and let them kind of my goal is just for everyone to leave a little bit more motivated to a little bit more courage. Like I think that's literally my I don't want to say purpose, but I think that's my thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah. Well, that's a great thing. That's a great thing.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

And it's also interesting how you say that, you know, it it can change. And it's okay to change, right? So just because I'm all about the pythons now, I don't know how long that'll last. I'm not saying I'm gonna do it forever. I mean, for now, I can definitely see myself doing it forever.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

100%.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

I don't know what's gonna happen in the future.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

I know.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

And or if one day I'm gonna wake up and be like, kind of over pythons.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

You know, I don't know. That could happen. It's not it. If it does, I'd be like, all right, so what do I do now?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

You know, because I'm not I'm not afraid of it.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

No, that's great. Well, I will I will tell you that I I've already had those moments.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

The last couple of years and venture capital. It's it's a tough road. Building a venture capital firm from ground up. No business is easy, but it it is really challenging because you're raising money, investing in other startups, and it's it's it's a different, it's a different animal than I thought. And um, the last couple of years have made me question so many things. Like, do I really love this? Um, fortunately, those really some of the dark days I consider because I was like, the business is slow, like, what's going on? I'm not as excited, I'm stressed out. Am I in the same position I was when I left my practice? Um, that that darkness became real clear to me that I do want to do it. It's just like it was hard. Just because it's hard, you don't go away from it. So that was good. But I also feel like there was a couple of moments where I was tying my identity to this new career, which is what I did before. And then I left it and I'm proud to leave it, and I'm proud to talk about this about no, you don't need an identity. Right. But I was adhering to it. So I called myself out. I go, no one is calling you this, only you are. If you decide to be um, you know, fascinated with water and and give tours somewhere and go boating and be on a beach and serve margaritas, and you want to do that, go do that. Right. So it's interesting that so I had like some repeated patterns, but I can tell you after two career one career loving it and then leaving, the second career, plenty of obstacles, plenty of excitement, had to go back and question everything, and now I'm just rejuvenated. Like I want to be so good and so influential in a positive manner in this industry, which is very like there's plenty of opportunity there. Yeah. Um, that that I'm I am so motivated and excited.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

So well, that's pretty awesome. So so this is for your foreseeable future, yeah. What you are like 100% diving into and making this happen.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Yeah, yeah. And and it's almost like cheating a little bit because the reason I say that is because it it's venture capital can be anything. Okay. Okay. Um, it's almost like if I if we took, um, I don't know if this is a good analogy. If we just called what you do and you took it a step back and you said, I'm gonna be involved in tourism and safety my whole life. It's almost like saying that. Okay. Like you can find things that you're gonna be helping people and saving people, and even something that has to do with entertainment or tourism or whatever. You probably will find something, even if you completely pivot. Right. And so, yeah, I don't know if that was a good analogy, but um for again for venture capital, it's anything business, building a business from scratch, investing in a business, buying a business, doing business development, bringing people together, teams. So, so anything in that world can be in the realm of venture capital. And I do think I'll be involved in that for the foreseeable future, whether that's in this exact structure or not. Okay. But if that makes sense, yeah. Because I told you I'm probably gonna continue building companies. That's in the realm, right? So I might want to run a company in five years, start one, and I'm like, I want to do that. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. But it but the good news is it's really, it really builds experience and empathy and venture capital, which those two words aren't um ever used together, I feel like.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

That might be the first time I've ever heard that. Yeah. But that's a really cool thing. That that is a really cool thing. What when you were talking about um, you know, you were having these conversations with yourself and you know, you were really scared.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

How did you get through that? You know, do you know like what you said or what what that thing was that when you were like, all right, I've gone through this, I've had all these talks with myself, and now this is what's happening.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

I think a really big one was giving myself permission to if I if I decided not to continue, that it wouldn't be a like a true failure. It would be like, no, I I want to do this now or I want to change. Because for a while I was holding that like pressure on myself. And again, I I think people have it when they make these career shifts. I I think mine was a little bit on a little bit more of a spotlight because I put myself out there, I talk about it, I wrote a book on it, and I felt that extra pressure. I had people around me looking at me, the same people who said, hey man, I you know, and you just, you know, you don't want, you want to be right. Like, let's be honest. And it's it's it could be ego, but it could just be like, man, all the naysayers, like this is how I got here. Like, no, no one, I believed in myself. That's the only reason I'm here. And I'm gonna continue to believe in myself. I really want to make this work, but then you just work yourself up. No one's paying attention, everyone's like doing their job or whatever. And so if you need a change or pivot. And so I just I think giving myself permission to say whatever these dark moments you decide, Naveen, like it's all good. It's not a like a failure. You just like you learned a lot and all that. I think that was really helpful.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Yeah. So that's kind of so so you're the underdog, basically. And, you know, trying to figure that out because to everyone else, they're like, I mean, you're you're saying they don't care, which they don't care. Like nobody really cares. Like they, they're looking and they care, but not, yeah. And you don't want to be judged. You don't you don't want to, you know, you want to come uh out ahead. Yeah. But sometimes being that underdog and you know, it makes you hungrier.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

100%. That's the chip, the chip on the shoulder. And that's where I think going back to getting bored at my anesthesia job, and then I started a business and it was really uncomfortable. I think I I need a little bit of that. And it's funny because um, I've been recently saying this is like we shouldn't punish ourselves for pushing ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

But I've done that to myself. I push and I push and I push. And then if I'm really stressed, I'm pissed off and I'm like, I'm like, what am I doing? I'm stressed out. Why am I stressed out? I did it. And it's it's um, you know, there's that quote with like, you know, just being grateful for being what is it? It's I don't know what exact quote, but it's like, it's like be great being grateful for being in this position of stress.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Oh, yeah. Right? Like something like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Yep. Um, and uh, and it's so true, right? Like I push to be in five different rooms. Wow, like from the outside, like that's incredible. I'm in it, but I'm so stressed. Yeah, but I walked in each room. So, anyways, um yeah, and and but I'm starting to get better at that. I'm starting to get better at that, like in the moment of darkness. So I would say a couple of years ago when I felt like really dark cloud, I think if I'm in that same position today, I look at it a touch differently in the sense of it's transition. It's not like you're a complete failure and you shouldn't be in this deep part or dark part. This is actually where real growth will happen. You will get out of it and you'll probably become more aware and smarter, whatever happens. Um, but I I think you need to go through those a couple of times. You I think to have this conversation and someone say, sounds good. Yep, cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Yep, can't good luck with that. You know, um, yeah, I think it's it's it is really hard to to draw the roadmap for that. I was gonna go somewhere else and I totally forgot what I was gonna say. Sorry, I'm going no, you're fine. Like everywhere. That's that's what this is all about, right? We we just keep going to those different places. But um, but and I'm I'm looking at my notes again here, like for the underdog thing. Um actually, so we are let me go back really fast because we were talking about um, you know, what people think of us and all of that. So when I first moved to Florida, I know nobody. I don't have a job. I don't even know if I can be hired as a state contractor for as a Python hunter because it was a pilot program and nobody could tell me if they were gonna continue it. And if they did continue it, if they were even gonna hire anyone. Um, I don't know how to catch pythons in the wild. I have plenty of, you know, experience with captive ones, but I don't know where they are. I don't know, you know, all of these things that just didn't make sense. So I come in, guns ablazin, I'm gonna figure this out. I start networking, I start just calling people. Who do I need to know? Who do I need to talk to? What do I need to know? All of this. And the Python hunting world at that point was 25 people. And that's it. That was the pilot program. And here's this chick from Indiana that is coming down here, moving, dropping everything to move to hunt pythons. Get out of here. Yeah. Right. Well, I was oblivious to any of that, which was fine. I didn't, I didn't, I was meeting people, I knew people, but I did not care. And about two years later, I'm hunting with one of my friends, and she was an original. And she was like, you know, Amy, when you first moved here, nobody liked you. I was like, oh, she goes, I mean, we all like you now, but we didn't like you. Yeah. And I was like, well, yeah, and it makes sense because now that I'm, you know, kind of at the top of that Python world, I know when people come in, you're like, even though I shouldn't be like that, but you kind of have that, uh, I don't know about that. Yeah. And you know, you have to work on being more accepting and coming from a place of abundance and all of that. But I but it was interesting that I didn't even know that nobody liked me. It wouldn't have made a difference, anyways, because I was doing what I was doing. But then, you know, I caught a 17-footer by myself, like right after I moved there. So people were like, Oh, okay, maybe she does what she's doing. But yeah, I thought that was just like nobody likes you.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

There's so there's something to say about being oblivious and a little delusional. There's something to say about that to get you going.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yeah. You know, for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

As long as that stops eventually.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah. And but you know what? Yeah, or just just don't care about. But when I did first decide to move, I was concerned. I always like to say, I don't care what anybody thinks of me. I love saying that. But then it's like, okay, but I do. But it's you only care what certain people think. Like the whole world that I don't know, I don't care. But it's like, okay, my parents, my close friends, you know, colleagues, things like that. I I do care what they think. And so I did when I was getting ready to move, I was like, um I am probably gonna be judged for this. Like, I don't know what people are gonna think. And then I'm like, it's not their life. Who cares what they think?

SPEAKER_02 42:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

There they can sit there and judge and say, Oh, she's never gonna make it. And maybe I won't, but I probably will.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

And if I don't, so they were right.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

Who cares? I come back and I pick up where I left off in real estate, no big deal.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Yeah. It's putting less weight on that because we we care so much about what people think we tend to. Um, it's putting less weight on that. It's and it's you know, going back to that um no one's paying attention, it's like going to a party and you look weird because you forgot something, and like no one is really looking at you because they're worried about themselves. Yeah, it's true. That realization takes a while, I think. Um, even today, like I still have to remind myself of that. But um, I wish I could accelerate that teaching for all of us, you know. Um the other thing it reminds me of is when I became a medical director, um, there was it was a very divisive position because uh half my group thought this position was like it was at a new hospital, so there's like divisive. So I consider it like an overnight thing where I was pretty well liked and I I spent a lot of time on building relationships in my group. And suddenly by taking this position, um, it was going to be overnight, people are gonna be like, oh. So it was very bothersome to me. In fact, it's why I wanted didn't want to do it initially. Okay. But one of the the current director was leaving and he said, Naveen, I want you to do it. And I was so nervous because of that piece and then imposter syndrome, just thinking I wasn't, I didn't know the duties of it. But I brought it up because what I really had to go inside and say the reason why they don't like half these people don't will not like me or don't like me is not because of what I'm doing. It's because what they think the position is and what they think I'm doing. So what I did was I reached out to all of them. And I said, if you ever want to talk like about what I do and and whatever, like let's talk. Talk. Most of them didn't take that up. So that was on them. So at least I tried. Second thing was going down to my values. So some people thought in the group, oh, you're not doing what's best for the group. Like those were some of the like commonalities of belief for that position. Because you you make decisions at a hospital. What's best for the group, what's not. And I said, you know what? I definitely can't appease everyone. But if I know that what I'm doing is close to my values, which is definitely to represent everyone, I'm doing this. I did extra work for the group. Um, then then I should feel good about that. And after, and and again, this is reflection, right? So this is like a switch. But after a while, I felt so much more comfortable. But that was one of the biggest pieces of growth, which is making decisions and knowing that people will be disappointed or won't agree with it and being okay with it. That is very difficult. Very difficult. And I'm like, that muscle's pretty good now. Like I can do that and be like, you know, because that's that's a huge skill. It's a huge skill. That's how we learn.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

And I I do think that it's a skill because it's like something that you have to work on it.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

You have to, yeah. But but I'm proud of that. And I go back to that. I I remember my old style, I was so scared. It's like, hey man, I want you to be the medical director.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

I was like, I was like a little kid.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Wow, that's that's amazing. I think that we are about out of time here. What else do you want to add to this?

SPEAKER_00 45:39

I just, you know, I want to leave the message of uh with with people that um most things we learn is is not in the classroom. It's really by putting yourself out there and and and just learning and not being too hard on yourself. So when you fall, like don't be so hard on yourself. You tripped, get up and just focus on that. And um, all these little things will add up to to find your true self, you know, which is giving permission to live and be and change. So, you know, yeah, that's what I would tell my younger self.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Yeah, those are great words for everyone's younger self, that's for sure. And so where can we find you? Online podcasts, all of that?

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. That's my main thing. Um, I have a podcast on YouTube called Made to Rise where I talk about imposter syndrome. Okay. So I've really gone deep on that. Um, I have a book called Physician Underdog. That's on all the all the channels. But yeah, I post uh I do content videos and stuff on all the social channels. Okay. I I I'm talking I like talking more about this stuff in general, which is are there life lessons that people can learn at the right time? And I've gotten a couple, couple, you know, people who've given me feedback, like, man, I needed that today. Right? It's like you hear that one you hear that one time and you're like all worth it, like every single time. But the but you know, the process of creating content is where I learn. So like that's the outcome is the piece for other people. But for me, I call it like a public journal. I'm telling you things and thinking things and sharing things that I want to write down and share, even if it's for myself.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Yeah. So we appreciate all of that. Well, thank you. Thank you for being here today. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

Thank you. Thank you for what you're doing too.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Tales from the Field presented by Ken DeTire. I caught a python that was 17 feet three inches and 110 pounds. It was, I still can't believe I did it because I caught it all by myself. And that almost never happens. I think I'm one of like four people that's done that. But it was such a crazy night because I was by myself. It's, you know, around midnight. I'm on a two-lane highway, and I see this python that's sticking its head out of the grass. Now I'm kind of new at the python hunting thing, so I didn't quite know how big this thing was, just based on its head. And so I see it, I pull over, I jump out, and with me, I have this six by six inch black drawstring bag because I know that I am not strong enough to outpower a 17-foot python, right? So I had to come up with something that, you know, might help me. And when I used to be in the vet and pet store business, anytime, you know, we needed to calm an animal down, we would put a dark cloth over their face. So I thought, you know, maybe that would work with a python. So, anyways, so I've got this bag with me. I jump out, I really have no idea how big this python is. And I get to her and I couldn't find her because she went down and it took, she's 17 feet, and I know where she is, and it still took me a good couple minutes to find her. But finally, I saw a little piece of her pattern through the grass and I followed it a couple feet up to her head. And oh my gosh, it was the biggest python head I've ever seen. And I'm standing there with this giant python head and this little bitty headbag. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this. But you can't hesitate with these things because if you hesitate, they're gone. So I said, let's do this. So I jumped on the python, and I'm like, I couldn't see her body because she's buried in the swamp. So I'm kind of like straddling her, and I've got my hands behind her head, behind her jaws, and she's trying with all her might to pull back into the swamp. And so my my elbows are locked out. I'm literally squatting her up, like using all my lower body strength to keep her from going in the swamp. So this was like a battle of strength, not this wrestling match, right? But I've got this headbag that I'm trying to get on her head and trying to not let her open her jaws, because if she opens them, then she's gonna get leverage on me. And so again, still have no idea how big she is. And so finally, after it felt like two hours, but it was probably only 15 minutes, I finally get this headbag over the snake's giant head and it just stops. It just stops moving, thank God, because it was gonna be her or me, and I was about out of energy. And so when she just stopped, I'm sitting there on top of this python, this huge python, still don't know how big it is though. And catching my breath, trying to, you know, figure out I gotta pull this thing out, put her in my truck. How am I gonna do this? Well, a truck drives by and I'm like sitting kind of in a ditch on top of this thing, and you can't really even see me. So I yell out to them. Well, they stop and they back up, and I'm like, hey, come help me. They're like, What are you doing? I said, I'm sitting on a python. They're like, why? Like, you'll see. So they come down and they were like, oh my God, that is a huge python. And so they helped me. Like, I grabbed the head, they grabbed the body, and I was like, oh my God, that is a huge python. It was crazy. But she um, she is my biggest so far, 17-3, 110 pounds. And just in case anyone was wondering, everybody knows this, I'm 5'4, 120 pounds. So yes, I did still weigh a little bit more than her, but I did win that fight. Bravery doesn't end when the episode does. If something you heard today stirred you, sit with it. Ask yourself where you've been choosing comfort over courage, and where one small brave step might change everything. Remember, bravery isn't about being fearless. It's about being honest and moving anyway. If this episode resonated, share it with someone who might need it. And if you're ready to keep hunting your best life of purpose, I'll meet you right back here next time. This is Hunting Bravery. Stay curious, stay great.