Single Parenthood: Breaking the stigma we never talk about

In this episode of Black and Muted, Cee, Dills and Shanice take on single parenthood. The silent burdens, the strength nobody claps for, and the stereotypes that still sting. They unpack the realities behind the labels, the pressures no one prepares you for, and the resilience it takes to keep showing up. Honest, layered, unmuted.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Black and muted.

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Black and muted.

SPEAKER_04 0:02

Black and muted.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Black and muted.

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Black and muted.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Black and muted.

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Black and muted.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Black and muted. Black and muted. Black and muted.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Black and muted. Black and muted. Hi and welcome to Black and Muted. Today's subject is single parenthood breaking a stigma we never talk about. So would you guys like to open a conversation?

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Such a deep topic, yeah. Such a deep topic. Alright then. Let's talk about this thing. What does it mean to you that you and it that ladies like when you hear that, when you even hear the term single mother, what does that what does that mean to you? Because obviously it can have different meanings, I guess. In a sense.

SPEAKER_04 0:53

It could be you um bringing up your kids by yourself, or you could be also co-co-parenting because you're still single, but obviously exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

But the thing is I don't know. Because I feel like I would have said that before.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Yeah. But it is a different thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

But I think it depends on how present as well both parents are. Because even in co-parent dynamics, you can still be balanced out. And sometimes you might not be, and then that's when it's like you're definitely a single parent and carrying a lot of weight by yourself. So when it's balanced out, would we still call it single parenthood?

SPEAKER_04 1:41

No, I I don't think so. I think it's a totally different experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

I mean, this is what my children's father will tell me about. Yeah. I think um I've of recently had to sit with just how to navigate in in a in a way where he is included more because he wants to be. Yeah. And in doing that, I feel like we have a healthy amount of being there together and then you know, not being apart because we're not together. You know what I mean? But I feel like single parenthood can So would you say you're a single parent then in that sense? I guess no. I'm a single woman, a parent. Am I single?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

That's what I mean by that. What does that mean to you? Because then I agree with that. You know, someone might just kind of just simply put it down to you know, well, you know, you're not with your partner, whoever, and that makes you a single parent, just kind of just Yeah, I used to kind of say that to be fair, yeah, until I realized actually there's layers to this, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

It's not as straightforward because there's definitely like a lot of parents, and I say parents because it's not just mothers, it's not just fathers, there's both who can end up in the situation where the other parents just not present. Could be that they're not alive, could be that they're not well, could be do you know what I mean? Like it can be vary so many ways where it's like we have to account for the fact that being a single parent does have many layers, it's not straightforward.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

So yeah, yeah, but it does still hold a stigma, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

The actual fake difference, yeah, it does. I think for me, you know guys uh know how I am right now, like stigmas are like it's ignorance, yeah. That's how I see it mostly, you know what I mean? Because ultimately I feel like anyone that is put in a position where they are a single parent, they may feel like they're valued less because some people in society can do that and value these people less.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Society paints it out to be in it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Like you're no longer as valuable because you don't have your complete family union under one house, whatever not. But I feel like it comes down to the individual always to be above the stigmas and be above like other people's noise. Yeah, yeah. Because if it was a choice to then not live in the same household, then why did that choice what what fulfilled the reason for that choice and why is it fulfilling to you? Do you know what I mean? Like, why is it of worth to the parenthood? Because I find like for me in my situation, not living with my children's father is healthy for us because we're able to very much get well when we're getting along, we can get along really well. You know what I mean? Yeah, and obviously, every relationship has its ups and downs, whatever not, whether you're together with that person or not, and especially if you have children. So there's always gonna be seasons where it's like sometimes we're not getting along too well, whatever not, but having space does help. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? So it's like yeah, for me personally, I'm I'm quite happy and content in the reality. And I feel like for anyone else who chooses it, then it can be liberating.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah. Some people you can only take them in doses, little bits at a time. True.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

I mean, or some people just thrive better alone. I'm that some people. You think so? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

You think you thrive better alone?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

So that whole single parent um connotation, or whatever you want to call it, do you mind that then?

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Do you mind like I don't I don't see the projections. I don't have space for that, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Do you feel like you're at a disadvantage?

SPEAKER_01 5:44

No.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Because you're raising two children by yourself essentially in the home? No. No, you don't feel that that puts you at a disadvantage. No, because these are the kind of stigmas that they they put on the single parent household. They believe that these things have to do what you're saying that's why I'm gonna be able to do it. Are very different. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

I mean, yeah, and that's true as well, because you have quite a huge family, two, ten, two as well. I have two kids. I kind of find it, I find that my children even help me more than anything to have structure, to have routine, to have discipline. You know what I mean? Like if anything flowing with them helps me a lot. Yeah, yeah. And when there's another person in the house, it gets my nerves. With all due respect. With all due respect. It's kind of just a thing where it's like, like I said, I feel like if it's if if it's a choice that you, if something that's if it's something that you've chosen for yourself, then be proud of it. Like, don't let no one else's ideas of how your life should be outweigh your own choice. Yeah. Do you get what I mean? And I also see for my children's father, he thrives very well when he's able to do what he needs to do in his own bubble. And we're still able to show up for our kids. We're still able to, like, you know what I mean? If they have things that they need to do in their school, whatever not, we're there together. So I don't it doesn't really feel really like a single parent thing a lot of the time. Yeah. It just feels like a single woman thing. But I enjoy autonomy, so I like that though.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

Like you was like, oh, I like you know, you find your happiness there, you know what I mean? Because mental health is a big factor in it, and if you're not happy, especially living together with the person, is that what I'm saying? So you know, you've got to be in the right mind to be happy, I guess. But I agree with you. Um I like to be by myself.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

I mean, we're Aquarians, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

Yeah, there is that. We thrive alone, we do. I do, yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

But do you find there's challenge? Like, would you say there's any challenge navigating with more children?

SPEAKER_04 7:55

Um, not necessarily, because yeah, I had my first just before my 20th birthday, so I guess throughout all my adult life, I've had a child. You've adjusted to being a mum. Yeah, I've had a family, do you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Just grew. Um that's quite beautiful to hear. Yeah. I think we don't get enough of that anymore.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

Yeah, definitely you don't really see it anymore. No, it's true.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Like mothers enjoying the fact that it's just like you said, it's we've just grew. Yeah, not like oh we've got bare kids and no, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

It's I love having I love having a big family, do you know what I mean? Yeah so I think also I was the only kid for my mum's side. So I think that was a big factor into it. But I love it, do you know what I'm saying? So I've always got time for them. I like my human beings, I like the people that they've turned into. Do you get what I'm saying? That they've always been. So yeah. That part. Yeah, I love it. But um, yeah, I'm very like single parent, like their dad's not involved at all. Um, and the first two share a dad, so they're not even like they're grown now, do you know what I mean? So their relationship with their dad is their relationship, it's got nothing to do with me. Um, where the younger ones don't, he's he just pops in and out whenever he feels like it. So I'm very much like that. That was quite frustrating, yeah. But um, it's never the stigma of the phase and you know, like people using it in a bad way has never affected me. Do you know what I mean? Because I don't care, but most people think to be fair, and I really don't care about society because it's just crap anyway. But um do you know what I mean? Like it and that's the thing, all of these things come from society, but the reason why there are so many single parents these days is because of society, do you know what I mean? And uh how how our community works and stuff, do you know what I'm saying? So yeah, but um yeah, I'm very much a single parent. But the only thing that I had a stigma, and you know, not a stigma, but the only thing that actually I felt really embarrassed about and was being a young mum. So that stigma kind of shadowed over me being a young mum, do you know what I mean? But when I realized that I'm really present and I've given them all the best choices that I could, it that went away as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

So because you're a great, you're a great mum. Thank you. No, for real. I feel like it comes down to our own efforts that will outweigh what other people have to say. Yeah, do you get what I mean? Like if I know I'm giving my all to my kids, to myself, to whatever I'm trying to build for us, I really couldn't care less about what anyone else has to say. Do you know what I mean? So it's like I I love that for you.

SPEAKER_04 10:31

And and the thing is as well, like I do get a lot of compliments about how my kids present themselves out in the world when I'm not about when they're at the shop. Do you know what I mean? And when I see my mum's friends and they're always like, oh my god, they're so good, and they're always so pleasing, like you know, like they're so polite. So, yeah, like you've been there. I built it, yeah. Yeah, and I did it by myself. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

So, like, would you say that you've been at a disadvantage then? Like doing it by yourself, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um there's a few. Um, mainly I feel like uh I think I've worried about it more so than that, and it's actually panning out, do you know what I mean? But my main concern was um having boy children and not being able to talk about experiences because my experience as a female is gonna be completely different to yours as a male, do you know what I mean? And like one of the conversations we had before about shaving, that was a big thing for me, but actually he's he's a good boy, do you know what I mean? And he's managed to navigate through it, and it reminds me of like the nighty kids because we navigated through a lot of shit. Do you know what I'm saying to you? It was a different world, but we navigated through and he he's like that. Yeah, do you know what I mean? I don't have to hold his hand, I'm like, okay, I'll talk to him about it, and then he'll go off and do his own research. And do you know what I'm saying to you? So I think that was my main because that's my like my big one, but so far, so good to be fair. Um and then, yeah, just having the presence of a man around. Do you know what I'm saying to you? I think that also is a big factor because even my children, my girl children and my boy children, are my our relationship, do you know what I'm saying? So you say my my girl relationship is completely different to me and my son's relationship, whereas is it would be the same if their dad was around. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 12:40

If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

What would you say the challenges are then? Like what do you think the father presence or male figure presence could have done or do that you haven't achieved?

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Um that's a good question, because my mum was a single parent as well. So um I don't really have that experience to be like, okay, yeah, I know this, but um I don't know, I just feel like obviously these are children, do you know what I mean? These are small human beings that are are dependent on us and learn from us because we're mostly their environment for a very long period, you know what I'm saying to you. Um so just having another person to balance it out, yeah, to balance it out so it's not because sometimes, like you know, when they say um your children, things that you don't like about them is you, do you know what I'm saying? It's things that it's things about yourself that you need to look at, yeah. So it's like my girls, my previous daughter, wow, she's got an attitude when she starts, and she's really calm and do you know, I mean, chill, but as soon as she starts, she's yeah, sassy, yeah, spice, yeah, and even like like more than mine, do you know what I mean? So I'm like, yeah, do you know what I mean? If I if they had somebody else, maybe they would have been a bit more balanced rather than you know, I'm not saying that all of them, do you know what I mean, will be the same because they're not all the same anyways. Their father like character-wise, um really loud, really loud, center likes to be a center of attention, and um my kids really don't like that, so they're complete opposite on that side of things. Um, but he's intelligent, do you know what I mean? But he just doesn't have time. So, yeah. So I'm not saying that him being around would have been better, do you know what I mean? Per se but yeah, a a good male.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

I mean, it could have, I don't know, you never know, right? Girl, we tried. See, this is the thing, sometimes I feel like you're really just dealt the cards you're dealt, yeah, and you'll never handled anything you can't manage. Do you get what I mean? Like ultimately, yeah. So it's like it's a blessing when things are, I guess, more traditionally aligned where there's two parents in a household. But for some people, I do feel like there is capacity to do what happens within a two-parent household without the other parent necessarily being there. Yeah. Because even sometimes in two-parent households, you do have some the one parent that's always at work, yeah, yeah, and that doesn't actually get time with the kids anyway. Yeah, do you get what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 15:26

So they say God don't burden you more than you can handle.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

So facts, and I trust it fully, yeah. So it's like even that, to that point, the stigma can't, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 15:37

It can't touch it. For real. It's true. For real. And I feel like for me, a lot of the the reason why I don't really care as well is because I come from a lot of single mums. Do you know what I mean? Like in the sense of my mum and then my nan, her mum. Do you know what I said? They basically done it by themselves. So I think that kind of helped me strike whatever, because I know what they're doing. I know that what their shift is. They brought me up, and you know, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

I hear you, I do hear you.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

But in that sense of independency, like, yeah, it will definitely come from like you know what I'm like. I'm always gonna say the home, I'm always gonna say the home. Do you get me? And obviously, like how you just put you just highlighted and just highlighted that you know you come from like single parent households, so you you can see like you've you've seen your your mums, you know, go through the struggles, you've seen them kind of like rise through it, you've seen them like show character, you know, um smile in the face of adversity. So for me, it's like you then kind of adopt that in it. So you've seen your your mum do it, so you know that it can be done, in it. Like even when it's difficult, it struggles, but you've been through hard times, yeah, and you can do it. So I just feel like, yeah, definitely that values come from home, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 17:03

I think the ability to be human survival as well, do you know what I mean? Because your instincts is always to survive, yeah. But when you have children, I feel like that instincts is much stronger, do you know what I mean? Because you've got your your next generation, yeah. Like you have to you have to make make sure they're good, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

And I guess one of the pros of having come from an environment with single mothers or parents is the fact that you're able to kind of see or what they weren't able to balance out and give you, you can show up for, you know what I mean? Because, like I said, there's I don't think it it's it's a terrible thing to end up being a single parent. It's just not fair sometimes when you don't have a village or community to you know take some weight off your shoulder and whatnot. Because then that's when I I've seen people go through it in really harsh ways, and then it becomes resentment towards having kids, and it's like it's not the kids' fault. Yeah, do you get what I mean? But this is another reality for some. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

That comes down to the person though. Some people don't like to take accountability for the choices that they've made often, you know. And then it gets so bad that you're even like blaming your children, as you just said, you know, rather than like, you know, just putting your hands up and just kind of just you know being accountable. Think about the choices that you're actually making.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Yeah, you know, and also I guess sometimes character changes. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like some people don't have energy that people want to be around. Like people don't want to stand being around you. Do you get what I mean? And sometimes I feel like it's important then to look in the mirror and be like, okay, why am I not able to build relationships in this way? Why do you know what I mean? Because I don't think the problem is necessarily being a single parent. I feel like that's actually a huge blessing in some ways. Yeah, just how it's played out in my own life. But I feel like the problem can be if you don't have support or just another person.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 19:06

So then it's like and if it means you have to make your village up, make it make the village, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

I mean, don't be afraid to go out and talk to your neighbor. Yeah, love thy neighbor. I really take to that a lot. Like, don't be afraid to talk to your neighbor and build a community there, like how they used to do. Yeah, like I grew up being able to go into all my my nan's neighbors' houses and just, you know, I mean, you play around, whatever, not there was never like uh anything about it, and it's something that I've adopted as well. Like in my where I am now, I just children come through, they come through. Yeah, and let them feel safe doing that. You know what I mean? And also, you know that the mothers are busy, like you know, in it, like you're in your house, you're cooking, you're doing whatever you're doing, you guarantee another mum's doing the same thing. Yeah, at least they know the children's safe, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

Yeah, and there's nothing like that. There's nothing, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 19:55

There's not a better blessing.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

No, yeah, there's nothing like that.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Because that's one thing I love. My children can be outside playing. I know they're going all around and through, but I know they're safe. Yeah, I know there's adults looking out for them.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

We're losing that art though. No, we're not, and that's the issue.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

We're not losing it.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

I think I believe so.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

You think so?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, that's the issue at the moment. There's no, there's not really no community like how it used to be. Not our time, anyway. It's completely different. Some people don't even know their next door neighbor, you know.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

I would say it's me.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

I would I would say it comes down to again the individuals that we are. Choose to open your heart to other people, choose to let other people in, choose to if you want community, if you value community, choose to create it. Do you know what I mean? I think sometimes people are waiting for the thing to be there, and I think especially like since COVID, a lot of people just became like in their shell and not really wanting to connect, not really wanting to get out into the world again. And you know, for some people that solitude became heaven, yeah, and I get it because it is, but at the same time, if we don't want to operate together, we ain't gonna create nothing. Yeah, so there's power in unity, and I think choosing unity is where we can kind of break that as well, and I think that breaks a lot of stigma because then you have to really get to know someone else, you don't have to be in their face 24-7, but you have to learn to open your heart a bit to find a mutual ground of respect, you know what I mean? And that's small things that build up relationships.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

I think people have maybe lost the art of building relationships, but it's difficult though, because it's it's not like again, it's not how it used to be, in it. Like it's it's it's just you don't even know who the person is next door. The person next door could be a mad person that's just come out and they've just housed them right next door to you in an estate full of like parents and children. Does that make any sense?

SPEAKER_04 21:54

It's always been the case though. That's the thing. But it's it's it's always that that's always been a

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Probably worse before we have now you can track someone's name and find out if they have a criminal record and if they're on record or things like this.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

But I would disagree, you know, but also spirit. I would disagree with that because I would say that before there was a lot more places and a lot more things for the like places for these people to go. Whereas now they've they've stopped a lot of funding in these things. They've they've cut a lot of these centres, they've turned a lot of these old school places that were shelters, that was places for people to go to, whatnot. They've turned it into houses. And then I think with that, with the play centres, things like that, children don't eight can't go down to the end of their estate to the local play centre, no one gets to know everyone.

SPEAKER_04 22:37

So now do you know you know like these community centres? Yeah, back in the days, they were actually run by the community because there was no funding, yeah, like seven eighties, eighties, but they it was the month that was like, let's get together, and do you know what I'm saying? And it was only later, like in the late in the mid-90s, that they actually started getting funding from like councils and stuff like that. Do you know what I mean? And it was mainly because of disrepair. But it's always, you know what I'm saying to you, like now, yeah, I agree, and but there is a lot of things happening in my area, but my kids are not interested, they don't want to socialise. Do you know what I mean? They've been doing it all day, and that's the last thing yeah, 100%. But yeah, I think like you said, if you're gonna know who your neighbour is, it's it's it's it's gonna take you to be to extend it. Do you know what I'm saying? Like sting the hand out and be like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

But do you really do it like it's it's it's just not the same, it's not the same. It's not the same. You just don't really, you really don't know who it is, like.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

You know something though, yeah. You don't know. But like I said, people go on record now. You can always look at someone's letter and see their phone and look it up, and if you want to be assured by their background or anything, but also you can read energy and read people enough to know like is this person safe? And trust children, like children are very quick to energy, sometimes a lot more before us. And if they ain't trying to go near someone, then don't force them near that person. Yeah, do you know what I mean? But there's always telltale signs. I feel like, and also those people tend to not always want to be where there's gathering. Like if it's like you're isolated, you're more of a you're more of a target than if you're gathered with others that are, do you know what I mean? Like there's three people from the block that are cool, they talk to each other regularly, they intertwine. There's one person that's gonna look from the outside and be like, oh, well, I can't, I can't, because then you know what I mean? They know there's gonna be trouble. But if you're an isolated person, you become a victim because you're now vulnerable. You have no one to talk to, you have no one that they're gonna see will come to defend you or back you up. So I feel like it's even more important. It's it's it's radically important to more so focus upon the outcome of what you want than what you don't want, and then trust that you can make connections of what you want to outweigh what you don't want to experience or your children to experience. Do you know what I'm saying? Because you're right, like there's gonna be a predator down on every street, probably you can't prevent certain things, but at the same time, you can build relationships that can help be like a fortitude. And I don't know, like for me, faith is a big thing. Like trust, trust in the most high.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Teaching your kids as well. Do you know what I'm saying? So they're boundaries and trust, yeah. Because they they get to a certain point, whether you like it or not, they they're gonna go to the big bad world. Do you know what I'm saying? So you you have to explain to them that there are dangers. And you know, obviously, you know, I love what you said, but sometimes there is situations where it's the person you know is the family member. Also, that's true. Do you know what I mean? It's the family member or it's like a really close friend. That is also true. That's dangerous.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

I mean, but then that's when it's like open your mouth. Well, yeah, I know what I mean. Like talk about things. Like I I feel like again, it comes down to being very radical in certain things like have come make people uncomfortable. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Talk about the things that will make someone uncomfortable. If you notice something small, you're like, oh, talk about it to the other person. Don't don't go into the the the habit of I'm gonna hush hush and do you know what I mean? Like just kind of be funny. Open your mouth because that alone does a lot more for a situation than silence. Do you know what I'm saying? So it's like there's always gonna be risk, period. But the more I feel like sometimes the more radical we can be, I feel like it kind of helps. It's like a fortitude.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

Yeah, I hear it. I hear it. But yeah. You have to build your community, man. That's what it comes down to, generality.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I I just don't think it's I just don't think it's there anymore. I just yeah, I just don't think it's there anymore. It's hard to trust, like hard to even trust your neighbor. They smile in your face, next thing you know, they're flipping complaining to the council that you're making noise, but then they're smiling in your face, all this sorts of general stuff, all this sorts of fake stuff, like you know what I'm saying, like these people don't have no values, they don't have no morals, they don't have no principles. You've gonna put someone that has no principles next to me. Do you know what I'm trying to say? It's just trying to live honesty, like it's just yeah, it's gone. I don't even want to get to know you. I don't even want to get to know your daughter, I don't even want your child to get to know about your because I don't want to be mixing with people like you. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Like, it's just yeah, it's just it's not what it used to be, man. It's not what it used to be. Life is what you want to do. Doggy dog. Life is what you want. Every man slash woman for themselves.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

You know I'm not gonna agree with you. I'm not gonna agree with you. No, humanity is missing, and I feel like the first step in building it is ourselves. That's what we need. We need ourselves. If your heart is pure, trust someone else's heart is pure.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Don't go make your friends of a maniac. Don't go make your friends of a maniac. You're my friend, someone say I'm a maniac. You're a maniac.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Might be. Yeah. One in every fruit. You know what I mean? I mean shit. At this point.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

People think it's crazy to to do these things, to be truthful, to be you know what I mean, to be radical against what you believe, and if it goes against the the the what's it called, the mainstream or the you know, the what's that when thing is a popular thing, whatever not.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

I think um and knowing thy thyself.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yes, that's some people don't be fucking with it. No, they don't, because a lot of people are conditioned to otherwise, you know, conditioned to then believe that you have to be a sheep, especially for women.

SPEAKER_04 28:58

It's like, oh, you are a bold woman. Do you know because I have an opinion or I have experience, like it that's my women, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

I I'm I'm I'm I'm being, I'm doing what I'm meant to do. But at the end of the day, some people might think, yeah, you're gonna think that's crazy behavior. And if you stay away, that's fine. I know my heart's good. You know what I mean? So don't don't don't ups your mind already in a way where you're not even gonna see no good.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

Yeah, that's true. People follow the light. So if you're a light, a love. Yeah, yeah. It's true though. You find your tribe because people just see you resonate, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah, it's not everyone in your street you might talk to, bruv. I might talk to you next door and not the other person next door. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's not life, is not that. See, I don't like sleep behind the.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Once again, it was that though. It was that once again, it once upon the time it was that. Like my day, it was that. My day, the whole that whole row knew each other. You could go in and out of each other's houses, door open all day long. Susie, Michelle, Janet, Jane, Andre, and Simpson.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

But like C said, there's also risk doing that because there's it is someone that's mostly familiar to your family, that would then be someone that you should be fearful of, right? So it's it's it's well dealing with humans, we're always gonna have problem.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Yeah, but again, like that's but again, but that's individual case. What I'm saying is in general, I'm saying that that's gone, that neighborly, that's the we're also saying that. No, I I'm from that, so I try to create that.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

If you get me, it's different because the kids don't play out no more as well. So it's kids they force you to kind of like talk to other mums and do you know what I mean? Other parents, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

But then do you trust your children outside nowadays? How things are going to nowadays? It's it's very tough.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

I trust them in the garden.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

You see what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Oh, but they can go around in the garden, you can go to other people's garden. I do, but they're a crowd. I've got to try all due respect. Yeah, my children are not of the age for me to let them on the main road. Yeah, seven and three, they cannot go on the main road.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

If they're teenagers, you see now they see now they can't, are they? We was outside, seven and three, you was that playing outside and you were staying at the front. You're playing run out, she was playing he with seven and three, we was outside, and that do you know what I'm trying to say? Like, yeah, the 10-year-olds, whatever's up, but we was all get me, we was all one.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

But you know what? Maybe also like did was there's older siblings that would look out, and like you said, everyone would talk to each other like because I grew up being able to go outside, yeah. But I had cousins that I'd be outside with, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Everyone that I grew up with was like family.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Well, meaning I'm the next so from like from like eight, I was going around heating. Yeah, I mean I was with my friends and I was walking around heating, like that's an estate that's like two minutes from my house, and that'll sometimes we'll go around some another another estate like around the corner from me, Brookstone, and that and go and check all the older ones, they'll be all like 14s and and 12. Everybody's out for each other, but we're all kind of but again and Brookstone. I'm like nine, ten, and Brookstone's all 15-20 minutes from my house, and walking across the road, I'm cutting through estates and that. But I was doing that then. Do you know what I'm trying to say? You wouldn't see that now, you wouldn't see a group of eight-year-olds walking 20 minutes from one estate to the other.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

I didn't do that myself until a little bit older, I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

I hear you still, but that was happening though.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

But it's back in the back in the end, as we'll call it, right? It's there was a community that was strong because it was generations of adults that had been.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

That's what I was saying, it's gone. That is gone. I think he's pushing it a bit with the 20-minute book, it felt like 20 minutes, the legs of an eight-year-old, the legs of an eight-year-old with 20-minute rules, but it's like five minutes, it felt like 20 minutes, but we took 20 minutes to get from the room.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

What do you mean where there was just the ability to still like go from your block to be safe? Yeah, yeah, feel safe as a kid, but also you had yeah, again, if we want it to come back, we have to be the people that pioneer it. It's not gonna come back by itself and it's gonna take trust in the unknown.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

I've still snitched on myself, by the way. My mum didn't know that. Uh-oh. She used to think she used to think I'm at the front these times I'm walking around. Yeah, but again, again, I'm not saying I'm just gonna snitch on the uh, but no, but again, yeah, I know I hear it.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

It's definitely different times. I hear it. I was talking about being a hustler earlier. I was like literally where we had to navigate in the the kids in the of the 90s and 2000s, we had to navigate, we found ways to cut, do you know what I mean? And yeah, where these kids I'm having to show my son like on maps, a road that's like 10 minutes down the road, you know, I would say it's you where I knew my ends like the back of my hands, do you know what I would say it's you? But again, it's different times. We were outside.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Did you grow up in a single parent household?

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Which one?

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Your mom. Yeah. Apart from nine though, I was with my dad my mum and dad was together until I was like nine. So I had the experience of both.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

What would you say is the biggest take? When your parents were in the same home, did you find that more beneficial than when they had parted? Did you notice it because you were quite young? And being around a corner.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

It's tough to say because again, I was young when my parents split up, so when I actually started maturing and growing, I was already in a kind of like a single parent dynamic. When I done most of my like learning and understanding, you get me? So I was already kind of in that what I would say from my like because I I probably remember that experience. What I would say yeah is like I don't know, man. There's just I can't speak for everyone in it, but you see, like, there's just something about your dad, like you know, like bro, you respect your dad, like you know, like you you respect him, like it's not to say bro, mum loves my mum, like mum respects my mum. Do you know what I'm saying? Like she's done everything for me, and like, yeah, but like there's just something about there's just I don't know, there's just like an aura that like, do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 35:25

You know the aura is what is it they don't have the workload of seeing you every day.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

I don't know, it's not that though, because because okay, because my mum and my dad used to work, so and and and it was like my mum does nights, my dad does days. So uh in the evenings, I spend the evenings with my dad, my mum goes to work, she comes home in the morning, takes us to school, whatnot, come home from school, do your mum for a little bit until she's getting ready to go to so to be fair, uh if they're both working, my nan will come, my nan used to come down from Luton a lot, used to get involved, my aunts come down from Luton, they used to get involved a lot. Like, do you get what I'm trying to say? So I wouldn't really say it's that. I just for me, I just it's just that male. Yeah, just that male presence. I think that's just what it was. Do you know what I'm trying to say? It's just, you know, like again, like I said, I love my mum, and don't get me wrong, like my mum, if she says whatever, I'd said listen, both parents. I had respect for both parents. Do you get me? Both of them was like British but old school Caribbean in the way that they dealt with things. So, you know, be cockney, talking cockney, but then when it comes to serious yadi accent, you know, do you get what I'm trying to say? So you know the difference straight away, you know the different different conversation when they're talking yardy. Do you get what I'm saying? So it's like rah, like, but it was all of that. But I would just say that, like, I don't know, there was just an authority there. Like when my when my mom's telling me off whatever, cool, but you see, when she said, Oh, I'm gonna tell your dad, just I patterned up. I patterned up. Do you get what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Um I hear it. I was like that with my granddad. Yeah, and it's just if my mum said we're going to see grandads.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

I thought you don't say that. Yeah, what I would say though, what I would personally say is that like there's certain things in my life that like I knew my mum wouldn't understand. Do you get what I'm trying to say? I would say, lucky for me, which everyone doesn't have, like, because my family from London is pretty much my dad's side of the family. So to be fair, I was kind of always in around my my dad's and my dad's family anyway. Do you get what I'm saying? That was always, yeah. So I kind of got my mum never ever made it like, oh, you can't be. Like, when they split up, my dad bought us about us a mobile phone. I think he bought us like the 3210s. Do you get what I'm saying? It was them days. The 3210 was brand new, bro. He bought it. I think it was like 90 pounds or something. He bought me one, do you get me? He bought my little sister one. She was like, she's four years younger than me, so I was nine. She was like five, maybe. Do you get what I'm saying? But just so he's got so he can contact us directly. But my mum didn't mind. My mum was even like, yes, yeah, yeah. Have your own phone so you can speak to your dad directly. So from about from early, yeah, had a mobile. So I could always kind of go to my dad for real. Do you get what I'm trying to say? So with that, whenever I kind of had an issue, I would just go to my dad's house. And he lived around the corner of like 15 minutes from me, literally. So I would just literally just get on my pedal bike, go to my dad's if I needed anything. So I kind of had that, not everyone has that. Yeah, you get me, not everyone has that support network. Not everyone has that. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Which I get in it.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

But for me, I was kind of had the privilege of so do you feel like you had a balanced upbringing still, even though they weren't under the same roof at a point?

SPEAKER_00 38:36

I say that you know, it's as balanced as it could of as it could have been. I have to commend them both in it. They've done like I feel like they've done the best that they could. And again, the one thing that I would honestly say as well, which I have to respect, especially for like what I see in today's day and age and like what I might go through, it's whatever we've seen. The one thing that they done is whatever personal issues that they had between them, there was never no point that they used us that we would felt like a pawn. There was never no point that whatever happened between them, my mum never ever made us you can't see your dad, or you know, or never. It was always cool, go to your dad. If anything, my mum used to ring when, like I said, when we're acting up, my mum would call my dad and say, Yo, listen, come and get your child, like talk to your children, do you get me? So it was it was never, it was never that. Do you get me? So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

I love that. Do you feel like there was a difference in their well-being? Did you notice as a kid? Maybe your mum being more happier. Was she more stressed? Was your dad happier? Was he more stressed? Do you know what feels like that?

SPEAKER_00 39:49

I don't even know if I should even say what I want to say. I don't even want to dish it with nobody. Say it in the world. I would just say, this is what I'm just gonna say. I definitely noticed the difference in both parties, whether it's positive or negative, I know it's the difference. Do you get what I'm saying? Um yeah, I know it's the difference still. Get what I'm saying, and I also I understand certain things as well. I've grown up to now understand why certain things played out how they how they played out. They played out just from you know so they were better apart. If I put myself in certain shoes, how I mean with the only things, you know, I'm gonna kind of understand. But um, nah, do you know what? Mate, at the end of the day, they were together for however long they was together. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Like what they said they were together, I don't think they was a good nine years before they had me. They were together. They've been with each other for they know each other. Do you get what I'm trying to say? So whatever they've gone through, whatever broken them up, they know like they were done with each other. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Like they've even had two children in the meantime. Yeah, do you get it? So they've even had two children in the meantime, and they're from those days as well, where like you just your parents kind of just kind of stuck together more time. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Like that was just a family thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Like no matter what, yeah, yeah, sticking through thick and thin.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Listen, was he married as well? No, no, he wasn't, no, okay, nah, yeah, no. My mom and dad wasn't married. No, then like, yeah, no. Okay, yeah, no, not really. I think that's why I'm not really too like because I haven't really seen that mum, like it's like if I do get married, I do, but if not, like it's I can do the family thing without it. You know what I'm trying to say? I can do the household thing and not have the marriage, still have the love there. I do I'm not gonna lie though, I do feel like if I'm being honest with you though, I do feel like if my dad was living in the house with me directly, I do feel like things would have been a lot more different, though.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

In a better way.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

I don't know if in a better way, I don't know in a worse way, but things would have been different.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Do you get what I'm saying? Like, just because like there gets to a point where literally wherever I I just felt like my mum didn't understand me. Even if she did. Do you know what I'm gonna say? Because at any day I'm a child. And do you know what I'm trying to say? Like, I'm but she might not understand whatever, but she understands being a child, isn't it? And that but for me, then it gets to a point where it's just kind of I just kind of just felt like mum, you know, you don't understand what I'm going through. You don't know like to be there and just if you know, like yeah. And then sometimes it's long to go to your dad for certain things, and sometimes you just you're brethren, so you just do your own thing, you make your own decisions. Do you know do you know what I'm saying? Whereas like if the dad is if my dad is in the house, I'm more than likely you'll be able to pick up on certain things. Maybe if even eavesdropping or overhearing certain conversations, then afterwards just come in the room and da-da-da-da. Do you get me? Um because yeah, like I've even like later on, like when I was living with my dad, like do you get me before he passed or whatnot? Like that used to happen sometimes. There'll be times when like I'll be on the phone, whatever. Then after the conversation's done, you'll be like, you know, like lala, that was his nickname for me, but oh lala, let me try to you quickly, yeah. I'll go in the front and be like, oh like X, Y, and Z and X, Y, and Z and X, Y, and Z and whatever, and you know, like just the reasoning and that in it, but that's Do you get what I'm trying to say?

SPEAKER_01 43:12

And it's like, yeah, if that had been in the house directly, then certain things that I would have been going on with, he would have been able to see that yo, you get me certain things, my mum might not even understood that I'm even going through what I'm going through because she just not no no disrespect to her, but she just doesn't was it more so due to your like environment while you were going through certain challenges?

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Yeah, 100%. So definitely it's always environmental society, it's definitely it's always that, especially where I'm from as well. Like being from being in Southwark and being in Peckham and that like definitely, bro. Like you can't even deny you can't even just deny it. Like not even trying to turn it political or anything like that, but you just can't even deny being black in those kind of communities, in those societies, this this one this this one. aim this is what I'm trying to say there's no they've only they they've only got one aim for us do you get what I'm trying to say all these stigmas and all these things that we're talking about now that's they put these they put us in these environments to create that yeah do you get what I'm trying to say on purpose so when you have when you don't m meet that stigma when you go against the grain they hate it they hate it do you get what I'm trying to say like you've broken the mold um yeah ma'am would you for another young brown child that may be grown up in that environment what advice would you like share to that child honestly to maybe be stirred differently this is what I would just say don't be afraid you got issues but don't be afraid to talk to people even if it's like your friends don't even have to be your your parents but even if it's like your friends is just someone like just make sure that your people around you you can go through because to be honest with you who you're around every single day that's gonna be who you kind of fall to in certain times let's just have it right like do you get what I'm trying to say let's have it right because they're the people that kind of know you that you well you feel that knows you in it do you get what I'm trying to say so make sure that they're solid and if you don't feel that they're solid in your heart then just don't even have them around you you can be alright with them at a distance you don't have to have them as friends because that's they're actually dragging you down. Yeah as long as they're around they're actually dragging you down. Do you get what I'm trying to say they don't mean you know well like do you get what I'm trying to say and and also as well I would just say just don't be quick to be like don't be quick to just strain circles and don't be quick to just seek like friendship groups or be popular or anything like that. No like have your own lane have your own thing have your own uniqueness about you that people kind of question or people kind of look upon because in the early stages it's gonna look a bit like what's he doing he's doing nothing different because you're not following everyone else or because you're not being a sheep because you're doing your own thing so you look a little bit different. But there's gonna be a point when everyone's just been following one person and you just help that one person who's on their journey you just helped them thinky why you six, seven eight are now stuck wherever because you've been living someone else's life instead of living your own and then when you turn around now then you see my guy or my girl over there that's been doing her thing from the start and you've now seen the elevation the progression by themselves and you're thinking oh damn why didn't I yeah because you was too busy cussing and making them feel weird making them feel strange or making them feel different because they wasn't do your own like do your own thing and you're gonna attract people that are also doing that do you know what I'm trying to say like naturally like that's what I would just say man just yeah yeah have your own mind have your own mind so so wrap up don't watch the stigmas basically do your own thing and be trusting yeah some good advice this week all right this is the episode of Black and Muty today I hope you enjoyed make sure you like comment share subscribe and check us out on socials and yep look forward to another episode see you a lot soon love and please