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Black & Muted
Black & Muted is a bold, unfiltered podcast that tackles the conversations we're often told not to have.
Hosted by Cee, Shanice, and Dillz, and produced by Everton, Black & Muted creates a safe but honest space to explore the taboo, awkward, controversial, and often unspoken topics within the Black community and beyond.
From relationships, masculinity, mental health, colourism, parenting, sexuality, grief, identity, and community issues, to the cultural topics that divide opinion, no subject is off limits. Through real stories, open debate, guest interviews, audience participation, and live call-ins, we challenge perspectives, break stigmas, and encourage meaningful dialogue.
Some conversations will make you laugh. Some will make you uncomfortable. Others may change the way you see the world.
But one thing is certain: these are the conversations we need to have.
Black & Muted
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Black & Muted
The Hypocrite On The Block: when the message comes too late!
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On this episode, Cee, Dills, and Shanice unpack “The Hypocrite on the Block”— when the message hits too late. They dig into that too-familiar switch where silence turns to outrage only when it’s personal, and ask the hard question: why does empathy wait for proximity?
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SPEAKER_00Yeah, what's going on, everyone? We're back with another episode of Black and Muted. I'm here with my lovely co-host, Janice and C. And we're here for the episode today is The Hypocrite on the Block, When the Message Comes Too Late. And in this episode of Black and Muted, we're going to confront the uncomfortable truth of street violence, hypocrisy. Once tragedy hits home. We're going to obviously explore, you know, how older generations kind of have an effect on the cycle. We're going to discuss how we can kind of break that cycle, you know, before it gets too late. So I mean how do you how do you feel about that subject?
SPEAKER_02It's a difficult one. Because you do tend to just talk about things that happen in your community when you hear things go down. Um and you're not always necessarily in the front line when, you know what I mean, when we are speaking up about these matters, evil. So I think everyone has plays their part in it. So I mean everyone has a bit of that in them to say, yeah, I want to make a difference, but it doesn't necessarily happen.
SPEAKER_04I think it's also like change begins with you as well. So taking accountability where we can, because obviously we're not responsible for like the generations of what's happened, what continues to happen, or what goes on on a day-to-day outside of ourselves, but then where we can apply a little extra compassion, some compassion, some understanding, or necessary disciplines. I think that's where we have the role to play. But to be fair, I have very minimal experience in the streets as such. I've had experiences in passing, but not necessarily things where I can be like you know, that was an experience.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so like I was very sheltered as a kid.
SPEAKER_04My family, they didn't for me to be covered. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think of like you know, some things like in life, some things are easier said than done. So you know, when you see things, it's easy to have an opinion and to say, you know, you would do this or you would react this way, or you know, but then when you're actually when you're phased in that situation, it's like fight or flight in it, and in that moment, you know, sometimes I am known to jump out of the car if I'm like kids fighting, you know, when it comes to instincts, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Because I am a mum as well, do you know, and I just think about what will the mum feel if that will happen to their kids. And I went, do you know what I mean? I drove past that or whatever, so I tend to do that. I think so. Everyone has a little something that they do give to society in that, but it's still happening, so there is more to give somewhere, do you know what I mean? That's also how you bring up your kids as well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but I guess the thing is it's what we can't control that becomes the problem. But is it what we can't control? I mean, giving that you have I'm looking at you because I know you have more experience within a particular environment. So would you say there's things within the streets that need to be addressed by the streets, or is that to be honest with you, I just think like it's you just need to let the streets be the streets.
SPEAKER_00I think every everything plays its part in it. In society, everyone has their role to play. I just think that um yeah, I mean, there's uh I mean there's been things like gangsters from the from like you know, from back in the day, do you get what I'm trying to say? Or crime syndicates, even things like that. Do you know what I'm saying? So I just feel like that's just even being specific, in it. But you know, just in general, the point I'm trying to make is that in society that people have their roles to play, and I think what the issue is is that a lot of people have opinions on things that is not even nothing to do with your something that you don't understand. So, for instance, you'll get people that will kind of like make comments on things that like happen on the roads or happen on the streets, but respectfully, if you're a civilian and you're not into that stuff, then yeah, you're not gonna have an understanding, so you're not gonna understand why they've reacted that way, you're not gonna understand why they're seeing things like that, you're not gonna understand why they have certain morals or certain values. Like at the moment, like what I'm starting to see is that like a lot of people are kind of like endorsing this kind of this snitching kind of like culture in it, and for me, I don't agree with it at all.
SPEAKER_02But the thing is, is that if you live in that that world, when it spills out into normal society, that's when the problem, do you know what I'm saying? That's when it becomes a problem.
SPEAKER_04But it's almost inevitable that it spills out. So why do you not agree with snitching? I mean, I hear it, but at the same time, I don't be hearing it because do you not feel like sometimes people need like if there's not if there's not, yeah, like if there's not like a something outside of that, do you not feel like it's just gonna be worse for the most part?
SPEAKER_00What do you mean though? What do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_04Sorry, like people who aren't ever held accountable for violent crimes, if they never had that point in meeting justice, because you know, usually it is because someone then became the snitch. But if they never had that point in meeting justice, do you feel like that would have been better or worse? Because a lot of the time you do find people who do who do experience performment, they tend to actually say, like, that was the best experience they could have had. Yeah, then they come out to wanting to help others come out of that life. Like, yeah, do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah of course. And you're talking about in terms of necessary. Like when they go inside and rehab re like habilitate. Like what I'm doing, what I'm just basically trying to say is that like in terms like to bring it to the subject, like, yes, there's gonna be things that you know you may look at and say, you know, this is wrong, or you know, you shouldn't do something, you shouldn't do that. But when it comes in the moment, you're gonna react that way, you know.
SPEAKER_02Um I mean, but there's consequence, that's the point. Yeah, there is consequence, but you know that though, innit?
SPEAKER_00Like you, but you know there's consequences.
SPEAKER_02Most times when they're living that life, they're not actually thinking about getting locked up or dead or their mum burying them. Do you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00So I think they are, but they're not understanding, you don't understand the severity.
SPEAKER_04Or how real it is.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you don't understand the severity. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Like that's what I think it is, yeah. You don't understand how serious it is. Yeah, do you know what I'm saying? Like, until it hits home, until it's close to home, and then you realise, yo, like you know, like it's it's real. Yeah, but I mean, like let me give you like an example, yeah. Like, okay, cool. Say like it was you like got children, say like your children was attacked in school, like what would you how what would your first instinct be? Like, what would your first reaction be?
SPEAKER_02But for legal reasons, I will not say that.
SPEAKER_00Do you get what I'm saying though? Do you get what I was saying? But we all agree that like we all know the right thing to do, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04I mean, in essence, right, nothing's neither wrong nor right, it's down to the moment and what in life.
SPEAKER_00And how can you say that to the judge though?
SPEAKER_02And how big the problem is as well, like how long it's been going on for, etc. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Because if it's resolved, like, do you know what that was an instance, right? When my son, he was in school and there was a kid that kept on like bullying him. Yeah, I was just so annoyed. I was like, attack him. Like, if he hits you, hit him back. He was like, Mom, no, that's not right. I'm gonna tell the teacher. So I was like, okay, you know, tell the teacher. So I told the teacher, and now it's like, can I talk to the parent? Because clearly, whatever you're saying to the child is not applying. Like it went on for a good couple of weeks, yeah. And then um they were like, they'd rather not have those things happen, whatever. And then there was this day we went to school, and then, like I said, his approach was never to hit back, right? And I find it interesting because I feel like we have a very similar thing there where you know maybe if you attack it might be worse than another route. So he wrote the child a letter, and I think in the letter, he had appealed to him in a way where he I don't know what he said directly, but at the end of the day, he came back and said, Mommy, he's my friend now.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's so cute.
SPEAKER_04And I was like, Do you know what? The higher parts of me would say, Yeah, that that is the best way, but then there's other parts of me that's just like if someone's really trying to get you down there, get them. Like, I don't know. I don't crash out. I don't crash out. Listen, I've had situations where people have been in my face testing, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hands on me testing, and then I don't crash out, but that gets the weeks of a situation reoccurring, you're gonna have you're gonna have a wrath.
SPEAKER_02I had it with my first or my eldest daughter. Do you know what I mean? She hit she was bullied, but it was going on for years, and it was just like she'll come home with new clothes and it'd be ripped. See, I couldn't handle it, my telling me nothing. When I'm talking to the teacher, it was like they didn't see anything, so it didn't happen. So I just one day I caught the girl doing it. So I told Helema, okay, cool, listen, deal with it. And if you know what I mean, and then when you come home today, you tell her no, you're not you can't touch me anymore. My mum knows about it now. So she went to school, got it got worse. So I just said that would hurt me too much. Uh listen, I waited outside for the mum and figured out who the mum was. And I told her, Shake, next time my child comes home with any bruises or cut clothes or whatever, it's gonna, yeah, I'm gonna go back to the city.
SPEAKER_04But then you know the thing is, right? We have to then take it to the deeper causes because children that are then comfortable attacking other children, what do they experience at home?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I she she was like from a massive family and she was like not getting attention. She was the middle child of like nine. Oh do you know? Yeah, so yeah, so she so I knew why it was happening, but that's still your problem, that's not my problem.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean as a parent, we get reactive, we want to protect ours, but then the other part is how is it that you even have this comfortability? And I think this is what interpretates in the streets a lot of the time because I guess for some people that becomes a safe place if home environment isn't nurturing and if home environment is empty, because a lot of the time you have parents who are out providing, they're caring for, you know, I mean they're doing what they have to do to keep the house sustained, so you don't have a parent at home, then you find an older that suddenly looks out for you, but they're on the street 24-7, they have time. Yeah, so I guess it's and then you get groomed, and then you're yeah, you don't know that you're getting groomed. Yeah, you know, you think, oh, you're just getting respect. This is validation in some sense, this is me being seen, and then it's a rabbit hole from there, right?
SPEAKER_00I guess when you're in the moment, you're not really seeing it as like you're being groomed because where it's just happening around you, you just it's just the norm, innit? It's just it's your environment, in it. Like everyone's kind of doing it. So, you know, you and your older friends are kind of like, you know, you're just you're seeing what they're doing, and you're just thinking, you know, I want to be like that when I'm I can't wait till I'm 15 and you know, I'm doing what they're doing, I'm allowed out late. Even little things like you know, I can't wait till I'm allowed out until 10 o'clock. But after going at 7, 8 o'clock, I can't wait till I'm allowed out until 10. I can't wait like that. You know, little things like that, that yeah, like but you don't know what's happening after nine o'clock.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, after I used to have six p 6 pm, even if it was hot outside and the sun was all right, my mum was not playing that, just like get home by six. So, you know, you missed out a lot, but I guess that's not it was much good money there, trust. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00But again, yeah, like um so you see how you approach the situation. Yeah, would you say that was the right thing to do?
SPEAKER_02Um that was healthy. It was years, yeah. It was years, it was years talking to the school to the head teacher.
SPEAKER_00Um, do you feel like you had no choice at that point?
SPEAKER_02It was no choice, it was literally no choice. I had to let the mum know that the the way your daughter is treating my child is not right, but you can have it too. That's what if you need to learn a lesson. How did the mum respond? She was like, What my I can't remember the child's name, but she was just like, Wait, my daughter, my daughter. Um, and I was like, Yeah, and she was definitely one of them mums that knew what her daughter was about because the child was doing it to her siblings in the school as well. So she knew what her who her child was. Yeah, but I want you to know who I is. I mean someone has to disrupt the pattern.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, someone has to disrupt the pattern.
SPEAKER_02And the girl never troubled there because I did it in front of the girl, she never troubled there again.
SPEAKER_04See, that's where sometimes that's what it takes. Because maybe she always felt like she'll get away with it. Yeah, this is the thing. When you consistently think, oh, I'm gonna get away with it, yeah, then you know, no accountability, there's not gonna be no correction. Yeah, and I mean it's just human nature that sometimes we do all need to have a redirection of path.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think the main thing is well, like you lot said, if it's like with what's going on at the house, in the house, in it. So maybe when they go home and that there's a lot of like violence and things like that, so they carry it outside, in it. That's what they know at the end of the day, that's how they react to things, in it. At home, it gets loud or it gets aggressive, so that's how they respond to things. You think you can just go around just you know, just hitting someone just because you're you don't want you want them to stop talking or something, yeah. Like don't go like that.
SPEAKER_04You can't translate it into the real world, there's no communication, yeah. So I think that's something that we're doing well as a generation to work on, yeah. Because we communicate a lot more than our prior generations, and I guess they were shut down a lot more, yes, so there couldn't even be space or capacity to to interpret how they felt without using physical. You know, I've allowed that as a child, you know, yeah. And the generations prior to that were worse because more time, what did they have to go on other than their own cruelty?
SPEAKER_02So no, we have gone far, we've come far, definitely. We're doing good. Even my kids recently they were talking about you know that they're really when I when they were younger, I'm always like, if you need to be punished, if you've done something wrong, I'm gonna tell you about yourself. But also, if someone does wrong to you and they don't get pulled up about it, I'm gonna talk to their parents, and if their parents don't pull up, I'll pull them up. Do you know what I mean? It's right, it's fair. Yeah. Because why should you know, I feel bad when I'm telling off my kids because they're still learning, like at those types when they were younger, but you know, you have to make sure that they know that it goes both ways. So my daughter said to me the other day, I'm really happy that you did. She was like, I you know, I always felt embarrassed when you told me off and stuff, but now I understand it. I'm like, yeah, it takes time, I guess, for it to make sense. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So let me ask you a lot of questions, yeah. So you see, like um what do you like tell your children like if if someone hits you, what do you tell them like they should how they should respond to it? I told you that in any instance depends.
SPEAKER_04If it's something where I can either put myself forward and be like, hey, no, then obviously no. Like if it's my little son and he's playing with another baby, and sometimes you know children do have different conditions and whatnot, so they can respond to playing in a different way, and they're still playing. So I would try to teach them not to always be so aggressive. Depending on the situation, situation where you're attacking my child for weeks, you must hit them.
SPEAKER_00You think that's right though? Good man.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's not about what's right, it's about justice. Yeah, is that hypocrisy then?
SPEAKER_00Is that hypocrisy?
SPEAKER_02It's also teaching that bully is that it's it's teaching a bully as well that that's not acceptable society. Sometimes someone might confirm.
SPEAKER_00No, I agree. I agree with that, but I'm just saying this is how like it's right. Sometimes things are necessary, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's also teaching about kids out there because it's gonna be sometimes there's bullies in workplaces and not necessarily physically, but there are, do you know? It's the way of teaching your kids. I'm a person, I have a right, and no, yeah, have a backbone. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Don't let everyone just push you and push you.
SPEAKER_00No, no, I hear what you're saying, and even with that, yeah, to be honest with you, it's like it's funny that you actually say that because even like from the like the background that I've come from, it's going into a work environment, it's like it's funny because when you're in certain situations, like you know, like okay, cool, I'm like may have gone to HR before before whatever. Do you get what I'm saying? And it's like the way that they behave and the way that they go on, it's very funny, in it, because it's like you lot proper trying to come across intimidating, but it's like what you don't understand is how I just how I see you lot is literally you're just I see you lot as just a person with just a title. So I don't even really I don't yes, cool, you may be a head of service or whatever, but that doesn't mean that doesn't there's not I'm not inferior there. Do you get what I'm trying to say? You in a room with me trying to that doesn't do anything to me respectfully. I've been like not that it's anything to be glorified, but I've been arrested, I've had police threatening to, you know, send me to jail for 10. I've been in situations that's a lot more harsher respectfully than just a guy and a girl with a title in their name sitting in the room trying to look at me. So when I'm going into when I'm dealing with certain things in work, it's like cool. My younger years, maybe I I may have let things slid because I don't know how to handle myself in a professional environment. But once I understood how to do things professionally, it was a lot more easier to just maneuver in it and I become a lot more confident in when they're trying to like get on to me. Because at the end of the day, I'm I'm a black boy working in the council. Do you get what I'm saying? So there's gonna be politics, do you get me? Without saying in it, do you get what I'm saying? And when they try to come with whatever, once I kind of understood how to carry myself professionally, I was a lot more confident. Do you get what it was a lot more difficult to kind of try and bully me in a sense, in it? That's how just call the spade the spade in it, trying to bully you. Do you get what I'm trying to say? And it's like when you know, yeah, intimidate me, even then, and not even you know, let me not even say intimidate because it wasn't even like I was, but it's just more just bullying. You know, when like people with authority are doing things, and like if I'm an apprentice or a trainee, I only know so much. So when certain things are being done, I'm just I'm new to this. I don't understand that you know what, they're not even really allowed to do certain things. Like, have you even checked the code of conduct? Have you even checked the it's not even what they're doing is behind like is backhand stuff. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Like, but I'm I'm not privy to any of that stuff. Yeah, do you get what I'm trying to say? But then when I start to understand those things, you get me because it's not easy. Then all of a sudden that becomes power. Yeah, do you get it?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I mean, I just say that to say that basically, like, it's again for me. The main thing though is coming from the environment that I've come from, they I don't get scared from just seeing titles. Do you get what I'm trying to say? I've been in more dangerous situations, so that's why I feel like at the same time, I don't I wouldn't say that what I've been through is bad in a sense because I feel like it's helped build character.
SPEAKER_04I must say, I feel like the principles, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Do you get what I'm saying? Like it builds it literally builds character, man. If you can survive in those kind of environments, like literally you can conquer it. Yeah, do you get what I'm trying to say?
SPEAKER_04But you do need people who have experienced that on the other side of it, like how you say now you know how to navigate corporate. Yes, you need to have the growth, the growth that needs to happen, and the direction and the guidance.
SPEAKER_00It does bring, I'm not gonna lie, it does carry a lot of trauma though. Just even the way that you handle things and deal with things and just your behaviours, and I I won't deny that you can't deny that in it. Like, literally anyone that you see, whether you was even street or not, like once that you know, once you've kind of come from that environment or that area, just naturally, there's just what you've seen, what you've experienced, what you've witnessed happening in the area, like you a lot of these things are not is not actually normal.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That we've been through. It's not actually normal. It's not. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Like the fact that we even see it as complete different upbringing, yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, and that in itself is the the trauma of the PTSD that we are carrying with ourselves, the fact that we see a lot of these things as you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I've met some scary characters out there who have actually been completely traumatized, yeah, and it is real, it's real, like traumatized from the street.
SPEAKER_00Let me give you an example here. Like, if you lot was to see a mad person on the road and you know they're just screaming their head off, it's like just whatever, just would you feel scared?
SPEAKER_04Not really. Not if they're not doing nothing to me.
SPEAKER_00But that's not you see what I'm saying? But that's actually not normal.
SPEAKER_04that someone's you you don't even know what they're you don't know what they're about to do but you just wouldn't be and that's just the little things I say because you've seen like you've seen it you've it's it's around you like it's taught to be ready no but it's not the precious thing though I feel like we've also then become maybe a bit too desensitized to the things that are telltale science do you get what I mean I think it's my error loud it's outside rolling the streets with boys beating them up and like I don't I think but I feel like even when it comes to say for example then like crackhead like you said a crackhead that's obviously in their high and they're they're going on yeah before they were that person there was a buildup do you know what I mean I feel like if everyone just continues to ignore that yeah yeah then because that's what it is those ultimately I'm not gonna engage with it yeah I acknowledge it I observe I see you ain't really causing harm to you oh you might I don't know you know I mean but I know I don't have capacity I'm not I'm not a big person I'm just gonna mind my way I'll say a prayer for you that's the most I can do you know I mean but before it got to them being that person there was a build up who who like when they were 19 for example but even do you know the sad thing is you meet people on the streets now they are 19 yeah looking like they're the 40 year olds that's been on the streets you know I mean so it's like where did the where did it go wrong? Not even where did it go wrong but where did we all miss the beat? Like where did we all say fuck it?
SPEAKER_02Like I feel like that's what happens we all just say this all the time whatever you know like I was my I was talking to my friend the other day and she was talking about like giving you know people that have got drug problems money and I'm like I always offer a sandwich or a meal deal or whatever do you know I mean if you're hungry cool I'll buy I'll buy for you a meal do you know what I'm saying but I won't give money um and then she was like my auntie was saying no you shouldn't give them nothing and I was like no because anyone could fall into that trap you know all you have to do is let a little bit of depression hit you and you could go completely so you have to give grace and you know the other side to that is yeah it's like you could like because I see as you don't know what it takes for them to even get through a day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah like we alone being comfortable to a degree in our lives going through a moment of depression that's heavy we need a we need our release you might have a drink you might have a smoke you might have a a dance you whatever it is that gets you to feel okay again you get to have that release if their little bit of release is that little one liquor yeah are we really right to then judge what they do with the money we give like that's how I feel sometimes I'm like I feel like intuitively I I I like you know no I was just gonna say mine is not based on what they're gonna spend their money on the rebellion in me if they ask I have a problem with giving but if I see them and they're just they're minding their own business there's something in me that just wants to give but when they're all up on me and I'm at the cash point and they're following and on the train they're approaching me there's something in me that I'm like no like chill like but when I'm walking past someone that's homeless if I've got change you know I will just automatically give because they're not harassing me. And you know that sounds bad because obviously there's a part of judgment there. But for me yeah it's all to do with behaviour and I feel like they're a bit erratic and stuff.
SPEAKER_00But I feel like yeah yeah but then wouldn't you say those ones that are behaving erratic wouldn't you say those are the ones that actually need it more because their need they're actually is the feeling for it they're in such a need they're actually at that breaking point. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01The chill ones are already I've got my own bad habits I'm not there to fund that's not none of my business that's none of my business if I've got change in my pocket and I want you to get a sandwich or a drink be grateful with that.
SPEAKER_02Listen I've got to man I gotta feed them kids know what I'm saying so you're lucky that's the other perspective to this I would say you have our own lives too like look at how how a lot of people a lot of people on the streets choose that life.
SPEAKER_04Yeah like do you know I mean that like I would say maybe I don't know the degree of the help because I've not experienced it yeah but I know there's enough shelters out here to help get some level of there's an image that a guy helped and the guy the homeless guy the homeless guy didn't want to be in there so he said just come and shower and go back out and sleep on the streets.
SPEAKER_02So sometimes it is a choice.
SPEAKER_04They do choose it and some people don't want responsibility of life and that's why they choose it. Like I remember there was a time I felt so bad because this young lady had um approached me and I could tell she was like my age at the time I think I was like 20 26 27 as well so I was like how did you know what I mean? And in instantly I was just like okay how can I help you and I remember like I felt I couldn't do much. I just had my newborn do you know what I mean I had my son I I can't do much for you right now but I took her to a church and then when I did and she was and then um I spoke to one of the pastors then they were like you know I guess it's hard to witness these situations but a lot of the time they have people come in in the same situation and you realize they don't really want help. They actually don't you know and it's yeah it's it's a double edged sword. I feel like if I have it to give I'll give it yeah and I'll pray that you do the best thing that you can with it and if that best thing is sometimes whatever you need to ease your mind and it might save you from taking your life maybe I would prefer you doing that.
SPEAKER_02Because then it gives you another chance of tomorrow is that is that fair to say though that they don't want to help themselves if it's the reality it's not that what's fair babe I'm not saying all of them but it's all people but I don't know some people actually can't help it I mean addiction you're stuck in a cycle any better it's like some people that come out of prison go back in prison come out because you know I'm saying they know that life they'd rather that life come out I guess a lot of people just don't want to do the uncomfortable thing as well like I think we all know like to a degree where we can shift before we get to an extreme you know I mean yeah some people just choose to not do that it's a choice sometimes sometimes it's a choice button but it's it's the relief of what you gain that keeps you doing it.
SPEAKER_00How many people got mental health though so they actually don't know what they're doing I don't know I wouldn't I wouldn't look at mental health in that way you can see a lot of these guys you can see that they just feel self-medicating it happens but not everybody obviously in this London if you have mental health to the degree of you're not capable to to to manage yourself you are naturally given a whole lot to make sure you're okay yeah so where though where are you given a whole lot from childhood right up until right up until you're taking care of your whole life if you have mental health or disability yeah but you say that but like not in all case not in every case in it and then some people do end up like going down these roads sometimes you know what it is is sometimes it's life life gets to you there ends up becoming a break you have a breakdown you have a mental breakdown no one doesn't really support you doesn't guide you and then from there you just end up hanging outside KFC I mean it it's not a jump though is it you don't that you just don't you don't point of choice KFC isn't it so my I I kind of agree and I see where you're I kind of see where you're both coming from but my thing is is no matter anyone's journey there comes a time there's gonna be a choice now on mental health can't really put them in the same category.
SPEAKER_01No absolutely can't put them in the same category because if someone's mental health is totally gone deteriorated and they don't know what they're doing it's kind of different from someone who eventually then started sniffing coke and then went on to and then went on harder and harder and harder and now they're so deep that they can't find their way out you had a choice before you got that deep so I hear what you're saying but before you got that bad there was a choice but then there's addiction though in it like some people have that addictive personality so when you try something you try and certainly but this is true if I have an addictive personality I have an addictive personality but that's why I stay away that's why I stay away from things you have a choice I know what's good for me and I know what's not good for me. Or what's too much at some point and if I'm gonna use life and blame life to go and put something up my nose or something in my arm then yeah.
SPEAKER_00But you have that this is the thing though you you know you have that kind of restraint you're able to kind of you know have that kind of resistance but not everyone does have that you know some people do succumb to peer pressure easier some people do but then they still have the choice whether to go and get help for it or not that's where it gets slippery because if you don't you know what I would I would say this yeah you know you lot say this yeah but when you actually like actually going through it there's when you actually say there's there's ways you can help where there's not actually a lot of avenues to help these people with it like I mean what I would say is yeah because it comes down again to like not completely expecting everything outside of yourself to make you make sense.
SPEAKER_04Do you get what I mean? Like at some point we have to be accountable for what we're doing for our own lives. I think a lot of the time if depending on how early you start as well you've naturally not even gained the the the grasp on accountability within yourself. So then you go down a rabbit hole but ultimately if you like there's there is a point where there's a choice and I get where maybe depending on when it started there may not have been much of a sport and some people can turn people away yeah right so there's like there's layers 100% not gonna deny it but I don't know you know I I personally think I I hear your perspective 100% hear your perspective but mental health isn't so cut clear and it's very complex.
SPEAKER_03But this ain't about mental health you're I'm saying I'm saying in relation to mental health because I think that you were saying that there's a difference between people who have mental health and those who don't have mental health I think everyone has a form of mental health I could agree to an external mental health and you have to consider the external factors and also people's strengths and weaknesses everyone has different strengths everyone has different weaknesses and if you think of the the environmental factors we're talking about childhood how a child is brought up what they're being taught you know um how they're being socialized by school by their peers by their family by their friends by the media so it's not so cut and clear I think even people that it's like if if we're if we're going to agree what you're saying then it's like people that go and commit suicide we don't feel bad for them or people that don't commit suicide no that's what I said no I'm just saying though but see where it may feel like that's an extreme case. No like I said there's layers I did say there's layers. No I'm saying it may feel like it's an extreme case to you but that's a perspective to you some people will crumble at something that may seem very small to you or may not see as significant to you. Absolutely everyone has different weaknesses and everyone has different strengths and that also that also comes down to cognitive development and how people process and what people view as what's important or what they need or what they lack or what is self-fulfilling for them in life.
SPEAKER_04So a crackhead may be like okay the person came to be a crackhead for whatever so and so reason you're saying at some point there was a choice some people literally just fall into it some people make very unconscious decisions you don't fall into lighting you have to be in that there's a preparation that happens even when you're doing that like I do get what you're saying and I do agree like I said there is layers it's not clear cut and it's not black and white because again like you said if it's from the home and then there's a social environment you're in before you're of an age like say 25 where you're cognitively you can make conscious choices to then no hear me honey.
SPEAKER_03Yeah but that's the thing though being subjected to a 25 year old not everyone at the age of 25 science is your cortex develops after 25 based on certain quantitative data is not it it doesn't it's never nothing is ahead of 100%.
SPEAKER_04I can hear you but at the same time what I'm saying for the majority when you hit the age of 25 is when usually you become more self-aware and when you're then able to make conscious choices. Prior to that age you can obviously be given grace because a lot of who you are is based upon your environment so like I said if you are a child and you become mixed up in that life it can definitely be something that we can say is small that took them there but not so small because as a young person it's heavy you get what I'm saying but as an adult if you become indulge in certain things as an adult you have to have a degree of accountability because you did know when you was light in the Satam and you was inhaling sorry but you knew what it was going to do.
SPEAKER_03You enjoyed the hit and that's why you did it again you didn't want to confront the root and we know after a certain point in time I'm running from something even if you can't name it 100% but what if there were things that had an impact such an impact at childhood development that it also has an impact on how someone processes things as an adult that's likely no but that happens a lot so trauma usually starts from childhood. It goes it is yep some people are able to bring themselves out of it but you're talking about years and years of childhood trauma not everyone is able to get to the age of 25 and now feel like they have a decision to make and they can make these decisions and I'm strong enough to make these decisions or I need to know what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_04Well this is where I did say like for the most part as community then when do we then observe that people are in a state where they need someone to check in and we check in because not everyone has the awareness of the fact that what they're doing is not okay or what they're doing is going to be self-destructive in the long run because in the moment it's fulfilling for them. But as community that's why I said there's times where maybe we shouldn't be so desensitized when we see someone having a frantic episode because then at that point in time that's probably this moment to say hey like you know like or wait I don't like I don't know what we could really do because depending on your life like I got children my love I can't put myself on the line like that I'll pray and I'll be on my way or I'll call a police officer I'll do you know I mean but I can't put myself on the line but there's someone out there who this might appeal to who then has capacity to wait to sit down and to say you know what I saw you and let me take you on a journey someone out there will have the capacity. So I'm saying as community this is something we can make raise awareness for because someone does need that someone needs someone to be there. It's true.
SPEAKER_00I want to say yeah because obviously I made the point in it like I'm I'm I'm agreeing in it that like yes in life you do have choices in it everyone has a choice in life do you get what I'm trying to say for me it's like how you how you've brought up or things that you've gone through affects the choices that you make do you get what I'm trying to say and sometimes you can't even like you can't these guys that are in these situations or have become sort of you know crackheads or um they're just sort of you know on the streets or whatever you want to call it nitties whatever you want to say sometimes they they can't help that it's it's life that they've fallen into this do you get what I'm trying to say um just general living just general daily day day to day living a lot of people are living like like living on the go. A lot of people are living in the minors do you get what I'm trying to say and when you're living in the minors like mentally it's depressing it's down you can't do anything because things are just onto you things are just chasing you like then like you're you're you've got children so you're trying to raise children and the reason why you're living in the minors is because you're trying to raise children you're trying to make sure your children's the right and then you know you need your you need your um downside so you're trying to do whatever on the side and then that's and then before you know it you're in the mad right now your children are getting older now and now they're just kind of doing their own thing and then now you're just losing control and then before you know it like this and then like it's not this is not all the time in it but I'm just saying it's just like that you like you can say that there's choice that they could have made a choice but sometimes life is just overwhelming and yeah it happens it does it I know somebody even down the road there's an estate at the end of my by my park and this lady I always used to see her all the time and her daughter's the same age as my 15 year old yeah lovely lovely girl always hello how are you and then after a few times I've seen her she was like oh did you have that 20p or I didn't think I think of it you know I mean I just thought she would change the shot and then all of a sudden I didn't see her and I said to my son oh have you seen Pingy's mum and he's like oh she's an E now mum she's some like she's not even around the area she's moved out because she's just on Coke or whatever I don't know crack or whatever but I was it happens do you know what I'm saying to you and she's just got her 15 year olds and she's got like a five year old do you know what I mean would you say that she made a choice to do that though yeah 100% definitely she did but her environment was to even have children her dad was the same so I feel like okay we wouldn't agree but then could she hurt what we can say is she hope could she hurt the choice that she made what we could say is it's it's it's not an easy choice to make we can give grace upon that we can show compassion to it because obviously to get to that place yeah you clearly have to be going through things enough to feel like there's no other way right but then this is where I say community becomes important because for those of us like I've not had the completely easiest slate do you know I mean there's many things where I could have said well I'ma just do that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah and if I give you the reason it's making sense. There's many things but at the end of the day if we conform to that and we don't say that you know what there's a better way and we show others a better way then there's not going to be growth happening. Like we're gonna allow a cycle to happen because it's just life. I don't think life does that to us all the time I feel like life gives us challenges and sometimes those challenges can be overbearing but I do also feel like being a part of life you have to know you are you are part of something greater anyway. You have a purpose being here even if you don't feel like it you you you're not you're not alone in your walk of life but then if we're not together enough to say this because of all the different reasons that we choose to be separated and segregated then these choices look easy and become what it is you know so we're not gonna say the choice is easy but we're gonna acknowledge there's a choice. Because if I chose to do that today I know that it's all it's only going to lead to eventually I'm not gonna be able to come off of the thing that makes me feel good and escapes everything else.
SPEAKER_00I think for me like again like I'm saying like I agree is the fact that that I'm not saying that it's not a choice but what I think I'm more saying so is that like it's in I'm not say it's sometimes they can't help that they're in these people can't help that they're in this situation. Like do you get what I'm saying that you sniff something you can help that you smoke something okay you can the reasons I get what you're saying when you're chasing a high though sometimes it's easier to get high than it is to face your issues but that's what that's how she needs to say she's saying that any one of us could choose that but it's still a choice we all could do that we could all kind of I'm agreeing with you but I'm just saying for some people like for some people it's easier to make that decision though. Obviously everyone's got their own like their own reasons do you know what I mean like some people they've had they've gone through something horrible unimaginable do you know what I mean and that's why they've gone that way some people it's just like fuck it why not do you know what I'm saying on a merry roll yeah so and then they just lose their people freaking do it on a memory roll and still find ways to live a normal life they're working they're like somewhere like that do you know what I mean a man's functioning properly like fully it helps some people but my point is it's like how deep something how deep something goes for you you do have some say in and if you feel like you really do need the help I know it might always I'm it might sometimes feel like there's no one out there yeah but trust that there's people out here and I'm sorry I'm not gonna take accountability out of the picture because that's the only way that you get from point A to point B period you're not gonna get nowhere in life if you can't choose to be accountable for your outcome of life there's not a saviour coming saviour's within you that's right so I said to bring it back into the the the like the subject then so okay then cool would we say that like the the older generations have like would we say that they have an impact then on like our morals and our beliefs and our principles that we are kind of putting out there because we are the the mothers and the fathers of today do you get what I'm trying to say the elders are the elders do you get what I'm trying to say so like our morals our values our principles the way that we behave the way that we go on the way that we carry on would we say that they have a part to play in like what they've showed us what they've taught us what we've seen massively.
SPEAKER_04But with the elders and the older generations we have to take into account all the things that made the makeup of those people and for the most part a lot of people have been not even just physically but psychologically Spiritually, not even a lot of people, collectively. This has happened amongst many races where we have been taken away from what's what's God to us, taken away from our knowing as a as a person, as a people, away from our values, away from the things that our self-esteem. Do you know what I mean? The things that we had to uphold us and keep us strong, those were stripped. Do you get what I mean? They were completely stripped. And so for the older generation, we have to acknowledge that they're coming through a different timeline and bloodline and struggles. We're experiencing the pain of the past, we're experiencing the light of the future. And we are very few here where we can say actually there's a way to go about the future that makes it better and completely allows the past to feel like a like it's part of it in a sense. It's part of it, but it's not it's not the the only thing that defines. It shouldn't just shape everything. Do you get what I'm saying? And that's where we're at now.
SPEAKER_00So it's like okay, that's great that you said that. And it's that's so what can we do then now in it to like make a difference?
SPEAKER_04Like I feel like it's community, it's accountability, it's it's it's it's yeah, it's okay. But those are like vague answers.
SPEAKER_00Like, what do you mean by like what do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_02Like, well, what I mean is step in, like, don't be afraid to be part of the community, don't be afraid to leave. Your neighbours say hi neighbor, smile but also your kids as well, like we were saying, you know. I mean, yeah, we make them into human beings that you like and you wanna push out onto the world, not that you hope they can then continue on for generations to come.
SPEAKER_04Get them people you like, make them safe, yeah, make yourself safe, make the people you're raising safe, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00But how like how how though?
SPEAKER_02Like it takes a lot of shadow work, it's a lot of shadow work, it's a lot of actually sitting with the things about yourself you don't like, it's being aware as well, yeah, not just like what's going on in your household and stuff, but just aware of your surroundings, your like I said, your neighbours, your community, you know what I'm saying, because there might be a point where you need them, unless they know you you're not gonna get absolutely not saying it's important, but again, like um when I'm saying like what can we do to make a difference, like like examples though, like because again, we're talking about we're talking about hypocrisy, we're talking about like a way of life, in it, a way of living, innit?
SPEAKER_00Do you get what I'm trying to say? And again, like how you said you've kind of taught little ones, you know, to someone trouble hit troubles you and they do it a certain amount of times, you're to do it back. But again, we know that that's not the right thing to kind of you know like show them. But at the end of the day, that's a principle that you've been taught from your elders.
SPEAKER_04No, it's yeah, but it's something where I can say I'm conscious of what I say right now.
SPEAKER_00So you're carrying on tradition.
SPEAKER_04It's not carrying on a tradition, it's a carry-on, it's not even a carry-on, it's an acknowledgement of reality. If you allow someone to abuse you enough times and you don't show them that you know you're not you're not here for that, they're gonna take the piss out of you. You might lose your life. Yes. That's the extent that that can go to because there's been cases of children your little one wrote a letter, and that works. And that was his God in him. Yeah, and I love it.
SPEAKER_00So why don't we start telling the ones maybe to write a letter to your enemies instead of invalid? Why don't you write a letter from the heart? That's what you do. And appeal to the, you know.
SPEAKER_02He found his own way, and that's what you that's the best hope.
SPEAKER_04I mean, that is the thing that children teach us, though. Because I would still say it's valid, and that's me living life, having lived life.
SPEAKER_00Because I'm gonna be honest with you. That's not a good idea. I'm gonna think that's actually a good like that. I thought that's actually a good, a good idea, to be honest with you. I think that a lot of people should do that. You know, if someone's troubling you, instead of meeting them with aggression, maybe appeal to the other side, in it. Maybe there's something that they're actually lacking at home, and you know, if they see he actually wants to be my like friend, he might actually look at you different. Rather than bullying you, he might actually see the no or she, if it's a girl, you know, they might actually look at you different.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, but sometimes violence as well, like a bit of Martin and a bit of a legitimate.
SPEAKER_00We hypocrites. No, that's it.
SPEAKER_04But you have been a hypocrite, you have to overstand the circumstance, the time, the situation. Yeah, there's a lot of things take into account. Like, for example, if I'm if I'm with children, right, and they're in my care and a situation happens amongst them, I tell them to write letters. That's what I would do. But if it's now outside the home, yeah, and it's a consistent matter of abusing another's person, I'm telling you, raise your hand. I'm telling you to kill them, but you're not weak. Yeah. And don't let them think that. Just stand your ground. Do you know what I'm saying? If you have to, then you have to, you know. And obviously, maybe you're right because one thing can lead to another.
SPEAKER_00But I'm gonna end it on this one. I'm gonna suggest that you know, if you've got any issues with anyone, write a letter to them, write a heartfelt message, you know, appeal to the heart. And if it don't work, then detained. But um, yeah, no, I obviously hope you lot enjoyed. Um, another fabulous episode. Make sure you like, comment, share, subscribe, and yeah, we'll see you on the next episode of um black and muted.
SPEAKER_02Peace out.
SPEAKER_00Peace out.
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