Episode 3: Enjoying the Hunt with Robby Denning

 On this episode of the Monster Muleys Podcast, host Shane Rasmussen sits down with Robby Denning, renowned mule deer hunter, author, and host of the Rokcast podcast. Robby is widely respected for his practical, down-to-earth approach to hunting mature mule deer and for sharing hard-earned lessons that hunters of all experience levels can apply. As a key contributor to the hunting community through Rokslide, Robby has helped countless hunters improve their understanding of mule deer behavior, scouting, and hunting strategy. The conversation covers big buck habits, lessons learned from decades of chasing mature deer, and the story behind Robby's incredible 208-inch mule deer harvested last season. Along the way, Robby shares entertaining stories, valuable insights, and realistic advice that will help hunters become more effective in the field while enjoying the adventure that makes mule deer hunting so rewarding. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Alright, so my guest today is Robbie Denning. Robbie's a great guy. Uh great buck hunter, great hunter, but probably even a better guy. Um strong Christian. Um really colorful guy, too. Love his storytelling ability. He really brings a down-to-earth perspective on hunting, and he knows how to enjoy it as well as get it done on big bucks. Someone I've always admired and um love listening to his advice. It's so practical, so common sense. Alright, today on the Monster Mullies podcast, we got Robbie Denning. Um, you know who Robbie Denning is, unless you've been living under a rock, Robbie's a big butt killer, he's been around for a long time. He's got a great storytelling ability. But Robbie, how's it going, man? Good, Shane.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Thanks for having me on, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Yeah, thanks for uh thanks for jumping on. For those that don't know, maybe just take a minute, tell us about uh maybe how you got started, so focused on mule deer, and just a little bit about you.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yeah, you bet, man. Like like it always is, if you got a good father, they get you pointed in the right direction. And my dad was taking me deer hunting. I I think in like 1978 seven was the first time I went, maybe 76. I was about eight years old. And of course I wasn't hunting, but he would take me to camp, and he was great. And back then you couldn't hunt till you were 12. So I think 81 was my first season. And um, you know, he always made sure I got out at least a weekend or two a year. Um, never got a deer. I couldn't hit crap, um, too hyper, wouldn't listen to the old man, shoot three shots straight in the air, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah, I never even got my first deer until I was 19. Um, but but man, looking back, it was dad. It really was. You know, he's the one that took me and got me going. And then, you know, when I got into my early 20s, I just got all on fire about big bucks, and I kind of took it from there. And um, so that's that's how I ended up. But hey, kind of a fun fact. The first forum I ever joined was Monster Mulies, man. I didn't even know what it was, it was just like, what is this? You know, it's back when you had dial up, you know, beep, beep, beep, beep, you know, log on and a bunch of guys talking about big bucks. I didn't know if it was a stadium full of guys or if it was three guys. I I don't know. But anyways, I started posting on there, and you know, I had a lot of respect for for Brian, you know, the founder, and you know, he's one of our best big buck hunters, and you know, just followed him for years, and you know, fast forward like 15 years, he contributed to both the books that I wrote. I've got good stories in there um from him on big bucks, and um just just a good dude, man. And so when you guys said you were starting a podcast, the first thing I thought was, well, it's about time. And then the second thing I thought was, man, I want to get on there. Yeah, so I was glad you asked.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Yeah, we're glad you're you're on. Um, yeah, what year was that when you got back on Monster Mueller, as you can remember?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Dude, it must have been around not long after it started, oh four, oh five, right around in there. Um you know, we uh do you know when it started? 99. Okay, yeah. So I was a little late to the party, so it's probably 04. Like I said, I didn't even know what a forum was, you know, or whatever they were called, message boards or whatever, and all of a sudden I'm on there every night, you know. Yeah, so uh and and it's still out there. I love it. You know, that's why I put it in my first book, too, because I mean it's an invaluable resource. I think anybody that's hunting big bucks, if they're not stopping by there, you know, they're not gonna get a picture of really what's going on. I got a couple of diehard friends that are on monster mulies all the time. Corey Dixon, you're out there, you know it. And um, you know, he's always, in fact, if I miss anything, he's like, hey, dude, get on monster mulies right now, check this out.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Nice. Yeah, no, I uh I love that you mentioned your dad. I've heard you talk a lot about your dad. And uh one of my favorite things is even when he got older, you would said he you would say he would drop by your truck, leave you a note on the windshield or something. That's awesome. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

He would, dude. I like seriously, he he he worked on a boat dock. He might my dad was my my dad had poor health, you know, in his later years, and you know, we lost him in 2024, and I miss him every day. But um, you know, he didn't have that great a health, but dude, he worked until a year and a half before he died, you know. He was just like not the kind of guy that's just gonna retire and sit in his chair, and he always kept a job, and he worked part-time at a boat dock up in the hills, and so he knows he drove all the mountain roads all the time. And I'd be hunting, and he I wouldn't even tell him where I was, and he would figure it out, he'd come find me. I wasn't hiding anything, but you know, I'd just be like, Oh dad, we're we're heading up tomorrow, and he'd come find us and leave me notes on the truck. Just always an encourager and super interested in in what I was doing all the time, you know, even when his health was so poor. And um uh if anybody looks on my Instagram, I think it's like a year ago or two years ago. I think must have been about a year ago. I did it it's a real, so you'd have to watch it, but it's only like 60 seconds long, and it's got uh um just a little shot of his of his tombstone on there. If you look really close, it's it's it's it's a picture of kind of above timber line. There's a wall tent, you know, it's carved into the rock, and um, you know, there's a big buck, you know, somebody's standing outside the wall tent. It just kind of looks like a silhouette of a guy, you know, how they made it. And then you can see this this big, you know, 194 point down the mountain. And you know, it's kind of phony, you know, just the way they have to carve it into a rock. But that that is a real picture in my mind of of of him, you know, when he was probably in his late 20s, early 30s. Uh he had this big 10 by 12 wall tent and he would pack it in. And he would usually camp by the road, like a road camp, but he had horses too, so then they would, you know, day hunt from horses. And so that image is just burned in my mind uh uh of of a young kid. And and uh so that's that's what we put on his on his gravestone.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

That's awesome. Yeah, sorry, sorry you lost your dad too soon, but that's um that's awesome. That's one of my favorite. I mean, I like all kinds of hunting, but I love staying in wall tents. I love the wall tents, I love the fire crackling at night, the comfy bed. I love wall tents.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah, when you're hunting like that, you're you're living well.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yeah, yeah. Um, so one thing I was gonna um one thing I've always uh re I've loved about you, Robbie, is I was gonna ask you a little bit about this. So um there was a time in my life when I was um hunting so hard and putting so much time into it that um I was driving myself nuts. And I would I remember coming home and being like just miserable. Mainly it's on these it was like archery hunting, the season's so long, it takes so much to to make it come together. And um, I remember you telling a story where your dad like said to you, he's like, geez, I was you, I hate hunting. Because you hit it, yeah, because you hit it so hard. And I've had the same thing, and I've and I've learned uh I've learned to make it more enjoyable and back off a little bit. I still have struggles here and there, maybe overdoing it. What how how long, how old were you when you were able to switch that mindset? Like, you know what, I'm gonna have I'm gonna have a nice camp. I've or I've been on hunts like this. I know morning and evenings are my best shot. I don't got the energy to sit there in glass for nine hours straight. When when how old were you when you started putting all that together and do it felt okay about that?

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Well, dad started hacking on me about it when I was probably in my mid-20s because you know, I I would hunt so much, you know, and just get burned out and you know, lose my temper, be grouchy, you know, that kind of stuff. And by the time hunting season was over, I was so burned out. And and that's when he would say things like, gosh, you know, this is supposed to be a little bit fun, you know, you're kind of ruining it. And and you know, he would just mention that stuff over the years, and um, you know, I always had a hot temper, and then when I was burned out, it was even worse. And then, you know, started having kids in the early 2000s, and you know, then you really kind of start paying attention to how much time you're spending in the field, and it's really started to think about it. Like, man, do I really need to hunt 40 or 50 days here? I mean, sometimes you gotta do what it takes. I'm not saying that, I'm not not at all. But um, kind of in that time, just listening to dad, you know, he was always like, It's okay to take a day off, man. Just you know, just have a nice camp. And you know, if the weather's not right, don't worry about it. You don't have to hunt the whole season, you know, because I was always so afraid I'm not gonna get one, yeah, you know, and um uh which don't matter how hard you hunt, that's kind of what I learned. Sometimes you're not gonna get one. It's just it's just it's just not in the cards. And so it wasn't like a switch all at once, but you know, I'm a Christian and you know, I've studied the Bible, and man, there's in the Bible that says, man, we shouldn't do anything seven days in a row. You know, everybody should take a day off. And so that was kind of in my mind, like, you know, any I mean, in the Bible, it even talks about resting your animals, you know, and that you know, that was for the Jewish people. It was exactly on you know, Saturday, the Sabbath, but you know, in in um modern day Christianity, it's it's not so much about the day as it is the principle of resting. So in my 40s, you know, dude, it just you know, to you're a dad. I mean, that's kind of how I know you, sharing your dad stuff on my Instagram page. Um that's why I like your vibe, you know, you got the kids out, stuff like that. I I just um in my 40s, you know, just working two, three jobs, it takes a lot to make a living. I was just getting burned out on life, and then that was one thing I just kind of started doing was just making sure one, you know, and it was typically on Sunday, that's the rhythm of life at my house, you know. There's you know, you're not working, stuff like that. I just started to try to make sure that you know, I'm taking a day off, take a full day off, you know, and and and then I just found I just figured it out. I'm just more refreshed, you know, just life in general. And so then I kind of started applying it to hunting. And you know, sometimes you do, I mean, I'm this is not a legalistic, like this is the only way to do it, and you know, never do it any other way. It's but you know, I I don't like hunting seven days in a row. You know, I used to hunt seven to ten all the time. And now if if we're logistically on a hunt where I I I I I can't just leave on a day, you know, packed in, whatever, I don't feel any shame anymore taking a day off. I've done it, you know, people go back on rock slide, simply look at some of those posts I used to put up and like, hey man, I'm back in here for eight days. You know, these are self-filmed hunts, I'm taking a day off. And you know, some guys would be like, Well, man, you get freaking that's like 20% of your hunt. I'm like, Yeah, but I'd rather be in the game for six days with my head in it than eight days burned out. And so, Shane, it was to answer your question, it was a slow transition of figuring it out that rest is a good thing, it really is. And as as fun as hunting is, and as you know, it's as hard as you need to hit it sometimes. It's just hard. You just it just wears on you. And and so that's something I just pay more attention to now. And and you know, I think the best rhythm is about a three to a six-day hunt. And and this is something else, too, dude. I learned this from Brian, this last story that he put in my second book, was you can wear out an area, like you can spend too much time in an area, and and you know, you're spooking the deer yourself, even if nobody's around. And and I really thought about that one day. Like, you know, he's right, like you know, it's not gonna apply to everywhere, but you know, some places, you know, remote mountains and stuff. I'm the only one in there, but you know, I'm walking on the ridge every day, the does are seeing me, stuff like that. And I just kind of decided too that man, I don't need to hit it that hard. It's good to, you know, hit a place, give it two, three, four, five days, whatever, and then give it some rest. Even if it's just one day off or you know, coming back in a few days. That's that's why I hate short seasons, you know, stuff like that. Because you can't you on a short season, you don't feel like you can rest, you know what I mean? Yeah, where if if if it's a you know 30-day archery season, yeah, I'll hunt six or seven days and then then you know take a week off, you know. So anyway, Shane, I'm going on and on.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

No, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

That that's kind of how I came to it, bud. And and to me, I have more fun hunting now than I did in my 40s when you know, maybe I was a grinder, but uh like dad said, you're ruining it for yourself. He was right.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

I love I love that take because in the day of you know, keep grinding, you gotta grind, grinder, grinder. And and you do, sometimes you do, but I love that. I love that take where you remind me exactly of that that story with the two bulls. The young bull says, let's run down there and breed a what breed one of them. The old bulls, nah, let's walk down there and breed them all.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

That's right. Let's let's walk down there, go through the gate, and we'll breed them all.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

And um, so, anyways, bro, I it's just been a good formula for me, and you know, I I just I just uh it works for me. And now that I'm getting older, you know, my body hurts more and everything, sometimes you gotta take a day off.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

I love that, Robbie. Um, so uh one thing I I was gonna ask you about too, I've heard you say um that uh not you haven't not that you've it's not that you've lowered standards, but you were you said something along the lines of, you know, if I'm only holding out for 190 inch or 200 inch bucks, those opportunities are so rare, I'm not gonna become I'm not gonna get any better at deer hunting. Which which I've noticed that too, except for I'm not I mean I'm more like holding out for 170, but even those in a lot of the general units in Utah, those those are tough to come by for me.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

And I mean I took like a one low 160s buck and I was happy with him, but yeah, um were you always like that or just or just was that kind of a recent thing, or you just noticed like, dude, I'm not getting I'm really not getting a chance to hunt because those bucks are so rare.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, and I I think you know, when I was younger, as I was always chasing phantoms, as in deer that didn't exist. It was in my mind that, oh, there's a giant buck here somewhere. But as I got older and I scouted more, I kind of and you know, a lot of times you just end up in average units, you can't draw great units every year. So this doesn't apply if you have like a super great tactic. But on average, you know, I'm just hunting regular places, and so then as I got older and I scouted, I'm like, the kind of buck I want doesn't exist here. You know, the it's like I haven't seen a buck over 170 here. So what am I holding out for? You know, really what what am I holding out for? So I either need to move and keep looking other places, or in some on some hunts, you gotta lower your standards. I had a muzzloader hunt back in 2020 and um you know it was in a decent unit, but I knew the genetics weren't real good. My buddy'd hunted a lot, and I looked at his videos, looked at his pictures, looked at what had been killed there, dude. Like one 190 buck and you know, 81 got killed there. And I'm like, you know, look in the record books, is it doesn't even have any records. Why am I even hunting there? Because it was a fun hunt and I wanted to go on a rut hunt. And um, you know, but back then we were just getting our butt kicked by that 16-17 winter kill. The units I like to hunt just was nothing going on. Uh looking on the winter range, can't even find a 180 buck, you know, that kind of a deal. So I went on that hunt and I just thought, you know, I any 26, 28-inch buck I see, even if he doesn't score not heavy, I'm gonna shoot. And I did. I I ended up finding like a 27-incher. Um, not real heavy. The bucks don't get real heavy in that, but I lab aged him later. He was five years old. I was real happy with that buck, you know. And and so I think you gotta match your goals to reality. And the reality is big deer are tough to come by right now. You know, we've had some butt-kicking winners, you know. I think we're healing up now. I really do. I don't want to just keep talking about bad winners because it it is looking better the last year or two. Um, but you can't hunt what doesn't exist, you know, and that's why scouting is such a big deal to me, or at least unit history. And if it's like, hey, there's a legitimate chance here to get a 190, then you hold out for 190. You really do, yeah. You know, but but sometimes those just aren't available. And you know, I got my best buck last year in 15 years. Um, you know, and and I was just in a unit that everything came together on. It's just a regular unit and get it on one point. In fact, I think I can go back this year. Um, but I you know, I I I would still would have shot a 27, 28-inch, you know, 180 buck and probably get him on the ground. He was really 175, you know what I mean? But you know, just to not because that's what I was thinking was that hey, you can't just, you know, grow a giant out of the sagebrush, and and luckily I did find one. And you know, talking to people over there, they're like, wow, that's just so unheard of. You know, that's like one in five years of somebody getting one like that around here. And so, so, anyways, that's that's kind of how I put it all together. Don't hunt phantoms, you can't kill what doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

I love that, yeah. And that buck last year, that was I love that story. You were in grizzly country. Did you actually see any grizzlies?

SPEAKER_00 17:49

I did not, but my buddy that was with me saw three.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

And all I saw was track. So yeah, I got I just got real lucky. That's why it was in his head the whole time. Because every day he's seeing a grizzly. And and uh so so yeah, I I did not see him. But right before I killed that buck, I came across um one of those big tanks that they used to feed cattle or to water cattle, excuse me. And um uh this was in November and it was still full. Um uh I didn't see any cattle in there, but anyways, and sure enough, bear bear tracks all around that thing, you know, and we're not talking black bears, big grizz tracks, you know, and um you know, as long as my foot. Um uh but but no, I never did glass up any any any grizzlies.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, they kind of change the they kind of yeah, they change the hunting a little bit. I mean they just change hunter behavior, they do. It's just when there's grizzlies, I mean it changes my behavior anyways. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yep, me too, bro. It was I was making sure I was real close to the truck by the time it was dark, and I didn't I didn't leave the truck until I could see 100 yards, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

That's awesome. So would you say today? I mean, I I'm guessing you would agree with this. It's much harder to kill a bigger buck today than say 15, 20 years ago, or not really. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 19:05

They're they were hard to kill 15 or 20 years ago. They they were they were always hard. Um, and you know, even gosh, apparently when I was hunting in the 80s, it was phenomenal. But I I don't remember it being phenomenal. And you know, my family were they were all better than average hunters, and I think dad killed one you know 29-inch good buck, and you know, a couple other four points, but it was still really hard. Apparently, that was the heyday.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

So I think what's harder now is the draw hunts now, like what are considered you know draw hunts 15 years ago. We were picking those up as every other year, you know, it wasn't that hard to get, didn't take that many points to get a decent hunt. Where now if if if the unit has any potential at all, it's just got a waiting list of guys trying to get in it, you know, and and um that so so these days it it's it's harder to get a quality tag, is what it is. There's still plenty of hunting opportunity, like I said, I still got to manage my hunts or I get so burned out. But you know, I'm hunting stuff on average that you can hunt every year or every other year, something like that. Because I because if I'm waiting, like you used to be able to wait for a high point unit, you know, because you could catch them. You know, maybe you're looking at maybe Colorado, for example. There would there was a unit I was like the first time I hunted it, it was zero points. I didn't get one, but had good potential. That was in '96. And then a couple years later, it like I got it again in 99, but between 96 and 99, it went to a to a two-point unit. So I had to get a point in 97 and 98, and then I drew it in 99. And then um, and then all of a sudden it's like a four-year way, and then it's a five-year way. And so what once something starts creeping more than a point a year, you can never catch it. Yeah, you can you it's impossible. And so those units now, and there was multiple ones in Colorado that way, dude. You just you can't get them. You just can't get them, especially as a non-resident in the smaller pool, you know. It's not worth sitting around uh building points for. Now, having said that, Shane, yeah, every year, you know, I apply for great tags, you know, I do I do to try to do that if there's any way to draw one randomly. Of course, I I would always want a better unit, always. But to answer your question, those units are getting hard to come by. Um, uh, you know, there's just too too much of a waiting list, and that's why I'm still fighting for as much. I mean, there's not really any general seasons anymore, but just as much opportunity seasons as we can, because once you have to, like I said, once it takes more than a year wait, you could just check those off your list. You're never gonna get them. Yeah, they're they're they're gonna outpace you. You're gonna get old before you ever get attacked.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

Exactly. I noticed that with Colorado I drew and geez, what was it, oh nine, and it took three points to get, and I chased it forever, and I could never ever catch it.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

And so you're always right there. Just right there, and then it just just gets them just a little bit ahead of you, and you're thinking, yeah, next year, and it never happens, does it?

SPEAKER_02 22:12

So I jumped units and then I and I burned my points. I had quite a few that year. I actually actually got my biggest buck that year. But um, and but now, same with you, I'm looking at these lesser point units. What what it seems to me like in Colorado is these lesser point units, I don't know. Think there's still big bucks there. It's just maybe you're dealing with a lot more pressure and maybe access issues compared to these ones that take more points. That's kind of what I've noticed a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

But but something to think about and something that I've noticed, and this is this is along the same lines of is it harder now to get a big buck than 15 years ago? 15 years ago, you could have a draw hunt and it was special to you if you knew what you were doing, but it wasn't special to everybody, and so you still had the run-of-the-mill guy out there, you know, putt putting around on his four-wheeler, you know, not hitting it that hard, hunting by himself, you know, stuff like that. Where now, because these tags are so hard to get, that same guy, he shows up with five buddies, you know, at least over the course of the week. He's rotating through five buddies, they're covering plan A, plan B, plan C. And so there's a better hunter now in those units than there used to be. But dude, I go to uh just a regular unit, like where I was last year, where I killed that buck last year. Three guys drove by me that morning and went up the hill, and I watched them leave in like an hour. Because because so they were glassing and then just took off. Yeah, yeah, and they just took off, they probably just went somewhere else, not a big deal. I mean, you know, I'm not I'm not saying they're bad hunters, but I'm like, oh, if this was a 10-point unit, they'd freaking have a guy camped on this knob every freaking day, there'd be a tent on this knob, you know. And so, you know, that might be a little exaggerating, but there's better hunters now on the draw units than there used to be. And if they're really good, oh man, you're contending with the outfitters. Yep. I mean, there's even guys out there that they they don't even have a tag in their scouting bucks because they're coming next year, you know what I mean? Yep, and so I think that makes it harder too. Uh, there's there's there's more competition yet in the over-the-counters, or the or the easier to get ones, it's not so intense if people are just out for a deer hunt, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Yeah, and the sun can slip through the cracks, yeah. No, for sure. Like I know, like on the Henry's down here in Utah. I know, like they say, by the time the muzzlow or especially rifled rolls rolls around, the best bucks are already killed from the app.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Yeah, and they they were named, they were found in July, or they were watched from the previous year. You know, that that's an intense amount of pressure. And you know what? If that that's fine, if Utah wants to do that with that unit, that's all cool. I'd love to have a Henry's tag. But um, but again, you didn't really deal with that 15-20 years ago. It was just kind of, oh, I got the tag, you know, and hey, I I came and scouted for a weekend, and now people look at you like a weekend, frick. I've been living here since July.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Yeah. So on your general unit tags, let's just say, because you I know you you hunt Idaho a lot. How how hard is it? Like, I mean, how many bucks do you have? What percent would you say hit 170? Would you even have any idea?

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Oh, that's a good question, dude. You know, I wish I had my journal in front of me. There was a couple years I was writing that down, like how many bucks I saw before I would see a shooter. Now, a shooter is gonna be kind of relative to that unit, but for the most part, I don't want to shoot bucks that are less than 180. Like I said earlier, sometimes you get them on the ground and they're 172, but you know, it was 180 in my mind when I pulled the trigger. So I remember for a couple years in a row, I was looking at over 100 deer, 100 bucks during the scouting season. Uh-huh. Yep, from the scouting, because when Idaho, you know, we still got uh uh, you know, we're lucky, we can still hunt in a lot of our units. You can hunt the archery season, and if you and if you don't get one, you can still hunt the rifle. So, you know, I I try to look at units like that so that my my scouting is like really paying off, you know, because I I get all my archery scouting countertowards rifle. And and for a couple years in a row, it was over a hundred bucks before I would find a shooter, and then that shooter may be 180 to 205, you know, somewhere in there. Um, so I don't know if that's a good or bad number. I really don't know. Um, it's it's probably not as good as it used to be, but you know, I didn't keep track of stuff as well. Um, there's definitely less less big bucks right now, but but but Shane, I I just have a hard time getting on the you know Hate Hunter bandwagon that is out there because it's like, dude, we went through two epic freaking winters around, you know, northern Utah, southeast Idaho, southwest Montana, uh, western Wyoming, you know, northern Nevada. You know, you draw a big circle around there, dude. There's a there. The buck inventory went way down, and it wasn't hunting pressure. It was 1617. We were just getting healed up, then 2223 came in and just cleaned them out. But again, it's they're they're kind of healing up now. And then you move south of that, you know, look at the droughts that southern Utah was plagued with, which carries over into you know south uh southeast Nevada, you know, and and so there's just there was just a lot of things going against them, but rain is a good thing. And I think you know, we like we're already seeing it here. And and and I I I fully believe deer could get right back to their levels they were in 2016-17. I really know before the really, really first hard, bad winter. I really think that they could. And gosh, I look at you know, nobody got their clock clean more than western Wyoming, and yet last year, those guys the the deer population's lower, you know. You're not seeing a bachelor herd of 14 bucks, and you know, there's three of them in it that are over over 180. You're not seeing that right now, but man, they're taking some quality bucks, and the guys I know that know what they're doing, they're like, hey, you know, I I can still find a really big buck. Yeah, and uh so some of this stuff, it's like how many do you have to have? I I don't know. I don't know if there's ever enough for some sportsmen. Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Yeah, no, there's a couple there's been some really good bucks taken in taken in Wyoming for sure the last year or two. Um, I was talking to uh uh Brian Laterner, right? Had him on the podcast. By the way, these are gonna start going live in about five or six days. On the we'll have them on Monster Millionaire's website, and they'll be on you know, Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Nice, sweet. Yeah, but I was talking to him about and I asked him the same question because we all know he hunts Wyoming, lives in Utah. Yeah, he was telling me that um what he's found before the winter of 22-23. He was saying he figured about four percent of the bucks. Because I mean, in the when he's scouting, he was seeing I mean two, three, four hundred bucks and all his own. Yeah, I remember and he was he thought about four to five percent were breaking one seventy, about one to two percent were breaking that one eighty. I asked him what he thought about Utah. He said Utah um he said less than one percent were breaking one seventy. But so yeah, it it does depend on I guess where you're hunting. And for me anymore, like I'll go in with an idea. It's like I'm holding out for 170 buck. And you know, I I pretty much do, but I mean uh kind of like that last couple days of the hunt, and you see a pretty decent one. This is just me, but um, like it depends. Like, uh, do I feel good about taking this buck? Like, is this buck gonna make me smile? I've hunted hard for six or seven days, and that's I actually that buck's pretty good looking. And you know, and so sometimes it just kind of depends on the experience for me a little bit, but yeah, it's hard to always say uh put a score on and the experience, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Yeah, and I you know, to the numbers that Brian just shared, you know, he was he was said he was he was he was out in Wyoming during you know some very productive years, he would see three or four hundred deer, one percent of them were over 180. Well, and and I wasn't hunting over there, I'm just talking general units. But remember, I said I have to see about a hundred bucks before I would see a really good one. So mine was one percent as well. So very comparable. Um uh just there's just not as many deer in the units that I that I that I go to. And then, you know, Utah, gosh, nobody manages their deer more than Utah. I mean, I'm not saying they manage them great. I'm not I don't want to have that argument, but I mean, you know, they got these seasons laid out, you know, archery rifle muzzle odor, you know, and and um uh and yet anywhere in Utah a a big buck can come out of it. And and not to not to hot spot Wyoming, one of the best bucks I know of came out of a general unit in northern Utah last year. And a guy I knew was was hunting during the rifle and then it closed, and then there was a muzzle odor season that opened after that, and a guy got it. You know, this is on a I I I realize there's no general tags in Utah, but you know, yeah, way more tags than neighboring units. And dude, it was a hog, you know, 200-inch buck, you know. Um uh and so I guess I I I'm I'm just trying to say that I hope we always have those kind of units because if we don't, we're all gonna be standing in line for the the high point units, and the only hunting we're gonna get to do is on monster mullies or rock slide or hunting fool looking at the pictures or epic. You know what I mean? Yeah, but then every there's just too there's just too many guys in in line. That's why I'm so afraid of like Colorado, like really clamping down on their deer hunting. You know, and I'm not seeing Colorado's doing a great job, man. Those late seasons that really hurt those deer. Even second season's been late since since 2020, and every big buck hunter I know down there is like, wow, we're seeing way less big bucks. It it's it's it's not negative, it's not, you know, somebody lying. It no, it's the truth. When you have eight or ten guys that are don't even know each other and they're all big buck hunters and they all say the same thing, you know it. But just just go the opposite and you know, make you know, Colorado's already a limited quota, but really clamp those licenses down where some people want them. Dude, I I I I looked it up like a year or two ago. I can't remember, 150,000 preference points are on the sidelines right now that guys could spend. And so that's something that's different than 20 years ago. You know, a good unit would pop up, you know, you had two, three points, you could get it, or you might have to wait a year and get it. Oh, now anything pops up. It's like whack-a-mole. You know, there's there's gonna be guys jumping in with 20 preference points that are sitting on the sidelines. There's so many of those guys go go in hunt and fool and look at their tables. You know, they always say you always have tables in there that show the number of uh preference points for residents and non-residents. Oh, it'll blow your freaking mind how many points. So, and and Colorado's trying to fix that. That's why next year or the year after it's gonna go to uh part of those tags will go into a random draw. And I know there's guys beating on the dashboard right now saying that sucks too. I get it, but but the alternative is just keep these as preference point only, and you ain't gonna get on, yeah, unless you're 17 and you and you can build points, and and even then, I'm there's so many preference points out there now. I even see it in Wyoming because guys started getting preference points whenever Wyoming opened it, oh six, oh five, or something. You know, there's guys pushing 20 preference points now. I might be off a couple years on that, but any good draw unit that pops up, you you you you can't you can't outcompete those guys, and that's why you know Wyoming has a you can share your points. Um and so even these units that were just kind of okay, they've they they've really jumped because guys are like, Well, I got 15 preference points, but I can't do anything with it, so I'll put in with this guy that's got five, we'll average 20 and go in at 10. And so you're just seeing every year that that that that point level go up, and yet the deer hunting is 20 years ago. If they started managing a unit, the deer hunting actually got better. Now, all that all that happens is the demand gets bigger, but the deer hunting doesn't get any better.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah, yeah, no, and it's funny because I mean I could be wrong, but it once Colorado, and if they do, it sounds like I don't know, they could bump these dates earlier again just because of the amount of pressure from the public, and it sounds like a lot of big bucks have been killed. I'm sure that in 10, 15 years from now, there'll be people saying, geez, remember when we used to be able to hunt clear to Thanksgiving, complaining that we don't get to do that anymore. So it's always gonna yeah, it's always gonna be something.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

There is hunters, there are some some of the biggest complainers I've ever met. And dude, I'm talking to my family. Dude, my uncles I was telling you about, oh my gosh, dude, they just depressed you when you get around them. You know, just they can't find a silver lining in anything. And and you know, I always say maybe I have rose-colored glasses on, but if I thought that way, I wouldn't even go deer hunting. I'd just go on elk.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Well, a lot of them don't. Yeah, no, like my dad, like he he still he will here and there, but yeah, a lot of those guys they they don't hunt anymore. And that is, and what a you know, they I guess that you know they had a different, and but you know, and I'm I'm happy for them, you know, that they they had it how they you know that back in the good old days or whatever they say. I'm glad they loved it. But um, yeah, you gotta that's one thing I've always appreciated about you is you are always optimistic and kind of half you gotta have the ha the glass half full. I love that perspective because you can get it.

SPEAKER_00 35:30

Dude, you gotta, you gotta. It's too hard. If it if if if if you're down about it, you're not gonna last very long because it is it is hard. Yeah, it really isn't. And dude, believe it or not, I'm not a glass half full guy in all the other areas of my life, you know. But but I really like deer hunting, and I'm like, I I've got I've got in the slumps before, and just like you know, stinking fishing game, yeah, too many wolves and making fun of Utah guys, too many guys from Utah, whatever it is. You know, I've got it, I've got in that before, and I'm like, what am I even doing out here then? If I if I don't believe in what I'm doing, I just shouldn't do it. And and and and part of it was just watching, you know, my dad's generation, which were the baby boomers, but even guys that were kind of my age just just down in the mouth about it, and then they would end up quitting. And then I was like, well, I don't want to quit, you know, and so that's where I'm at right now.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

I just and and and maybe maybe I have rose colored glasses on, but I found a really big buck last year, biggest one I've killed in 15 years. Yeah, so I know I know it's working.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Yeah, that was I was I was super happy for you. My boy actually at the Expo, he uh guessed, he came within an inch of the score. Well, I guess you guys scored it wrong, it was really 208, but you had it like at 205 or something.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Yeah, so what what what we did? We were gonna give away a suppressor from unknown conditions, and it was gonna be for net. And so when when when I had Travis Hobbs, it's really good score. And yeah, and so and and we used the Boone and Crockett online calculator. And um, you know, I'm used to kind of looking at it on my phone. Well, everything was tipped sideways, and so it was just a little different look. So when we got to the drum roll and Travis, you know, he entered all the numbers. You know, I I found out what it scored when everybody else did. I looked at the wrong line and I looked at the gross. Uh, wait a second, where we yeah, we were going for gross. I looked at the net.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

And so I think it was 205 net, and so that's what I read, and everybody's like, all right, cool. And we gave the suppressor away. And then, you know, Travis is over there. He's like, dude, the gross is 208. Oh no. So I went over to the unknown munitions, Jake Mushaney. He's a cool guy. He's like, dude, we got to give another suppressor away. He's like, All right. Oh, so you gave away two? We gave away two, dude. We gave away one for one for net and one for gross.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

So yeah, he came out uh the 208 and 5.8, I think is what he was. Uh gross, and then he was so 208 and 5.8, and his net was 205 and 5.8. Dude, that buck only had three inches of deduction as a non-track.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

That's crazy. Yeah, it was totally crazy. His rack was so even. Yeah, that's awesome. I loved how and you how you were saying that's like yep, even in today's day and age, like it can still be done. Uh, you can still turn up a giant in this no-name unit, and that's what makes yeah, I love Mule Deer for that reason.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

I mean, you gotta get lucky, but I hunted 15 years hard and faithfully, and and it happened, you know. And I killed a lot of big bucks in between that 15 years too. But that was definitely that was the best one since 2010. I was flipping flabbergasted when I saw that thing. I just could not even well, I mean, I'm rubbing my eyes. Like, is this even real?

SPEAKER_02 38:42

So when you show, I mean, you knew he was big, but I mean, were you thinking like 190-ish big? Dude, I couldn't.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

I I the wind was blowing super flipping, flipping hard. And so um, when I first saw him, I just thought, big heavy buck, 30 inches wide, is what I thought. And and then I just kind of learned don't don't keep gawking at their antlers, you'll waste time and you'll get too excited. So the wind was literally 30, 40 mile-an hour winds. And he's he's over 500 yards away. And I'm thinking, at first I'm thinking, I can't, I can't even shoot. Yeah, this is too windy. I'm gonna just watch him. He he was chasing does out in the sagebrush. But I'm just gonna watch him and and and and see what he's gonna do, and then I'll make a stock. And um the so I got on the ground, and again, I'm just kind of looking at him in eight-power binoculars. I got the spotter set up and turned on the turned on the uh uh phone scope and and got it going on him, but I didn't even really look at it. That was just more of you know to track the shot and you know, in case I got a shot. I just wasn't sure. Well, dude, all of a sudden the wind just lays down. Like, you know, we we're 34 mile, 34 40 mile an hour gust, and all of a sudden it's just it's just kind of blowing softly. And dude, in that same time when he was chasing those does, he was working his way towards me and he cut off, he got down to like 480. And I'm thinking, man, that's in my boiler room. I'm not a long-range hunter. Um uh and the wind's laying down. I'm gonna at least get on him and get my scope on him and and just see what this wind does, you know. Because if it comes back up to 3040, I'm not gonna shoot. I mean, this wind was blowing so hard, Shane. When you were standing up, you could feel it pressing on your body, like it would shake your body. And um, so I'm watching him in the scope. The wind, you know, the wind, when I say the wind died, I know it's 10, 15 by that time. And um, and dude, he comes up to like 480, and the does move up the hill from him, and he chased this doe down in this little draw, and then he turned and started to quarter away. And um uh I had the so the wind was blowing right to left, and he's looking uh right to left, quartering away from me. So I just put that 500-yard dot low on his back rib and let her rip, and he freaking pow! And then he just he went rolling down the hill. So um uh well, you what you were asking. Oh, did I know he was a giant? Well, I knew he was a shooter, I knew all that, but you know, I didn't I didn't know how many points, I didn't even know if he was a non-typical, that wasn't even in my brain, and so he he crashed down into the draw, and then he then he got up, and I got a couple other shots at him, and I got him, and then he was down. So I looked at the phone scope, and you know, because even though he's down, I'm still like, where did I hit him? And so, dude, I'm blowing up the phone scope. I'm like, oh my gosh, this freaking deer's big, like he's got some non-typical crap on him. Like, I couldn't even believe it. I thought, get off your phone and get over there. So the horse was tied at the bottom. I I walked down to the horse, got the horse, and made this big loop around him. And and when I said he went down, I couldn't see him, but I never saw him leave the draw. So I'm assuming he's down. It's pretty tall sagebrush, you know, maybe five foot high, six foot high, pretty easy to hide a deer in. So I got around back back up above him. It probably took about 15 minutes to make that loop. And um uh, you know, I'm kind of nervous, but I'm I'm pretty sure when I that shot on the phone scope, it looked solid, you know, right the shoulder. So then I got up above and I could look down there, and he was down, down in there. We'll do and I could see him from the side, if I remember right. Dude, x every point had a had an extra point on it, like four or five inches, six inches long. Every point had an inline point on it. So then then I really freaked out. Like, holy crap, he's way bigger than what I thought he was. You know, it was that it was that kind of a deal. And and then when I got down there and started rolling him around, I I couldn't believe it. And he he wasn't quite 30 inches wide, he was 28 and a half, but he was so much heavier than and and just carried his mass all the way out uh just a fantastic buck, dude.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Yeah, he was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Top five bucks of my whole life.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Awesome. So I was gonna ask, because you obviously you still get after, you still get super excited, and a lot of people start to, you know, they start to fade off, like we've talked about. They don't are kind of would you say just your I'm guessing it's your optimistic attitude that's kind of helped you stay that way? Because I don't I don't wanna I don't want to be one of these guys, and a lot of people out there they don't want to be one of these guys, you know, you start getting mid-50s, late 50s, and you're kind of just like done. Would you say your optimism has helped you stay with it?

SPEAKER_00 43:06

It has, dude, but also just realizing my limitations. I got a real bad lephany. I heard it when I was 16 wrestling, and it's just plagued me my whole life, and and I got by you know pretty good on it. But man, the last uh I I I took a fall down the mountain in 2021 and hyper flexed it, bent it back behind my back. It just messed me up. I mean, I'm bone on bone on that leg. And um, so I've had to recognize my limitations, and that slowed me down a little bit, but maybe in a good way, Shane. I don't just run all over the unit now. You know, I really I really try to hunt slower. Um just taking care of your body, you know. I mean, I I don't eat a bunch of fast food, you know, take my lunch to work every day. You know, I I'm not a workout beast, you know, but I I do I do run a large personal training program and health club, so you know I'm I'm fitness-minded. Um and so, dude, just taking care of myself, recognizing my limitations, but Shane, I love deer hunting. That's that's what keeps me going, brother. I just love it. And that's why dad was right when he was like, Oh, I'd hate it if I was you. And I'm like, Yeah, I gotta get more imbalance here because I don't want to hate it. I don't want to hate it. I want to have fun. I wanna and and you know, you and I already talked about this. Sometimes it's not gonna be fun. You gotta go hard, and maybe you gotta hunt longer than you want to. That's just how it is. But but no, dude, I I still love it. I'm fifty seven and you know it's Long as the old body will hold together, I want to keep doing it. My friend, my friend David Rydell, he's on Instagram, best Instagram page out there. Go look at all his books. I went to old Mexico with him last year. Uh he turned 78 when we were in Mexico. I'm so proud of him. And he still gets up every morning. He goes out. I mean, he you know, he get he gets around. He really does. And man, I I hope I'm doing the same thing when I'm his age. And he's got and he's still got the heart for it. Just what you said. You know, how how do you have the heart for it? I think he just loves it.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Yeah. I need to I I follow his page. I may need to reach out to him and see if he wants to get on the podcast. I'd love to talk to him.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

Oh, dude, you should, man. Go look at his his Instagram page. He's got bucks back in there from the late 60s, early 70s, all documented, you know, old film cameras and you know, uh, I mean, and just crazy stuff. Like here he is with a big, you know, 180 buck and he's got his shirt off. You know, I mean, how's that for 1970s, you know, and a mustache? Yeah, you know, he's he's lived it all. But but you'll see when you talk to him, he's still really positive. He's still really optimistic, and you know, and he's seen better deer hunting than you and me put together for times 10. Yeah, you know, he lived through it. He's still like, yeah, it's not what it was, but you know, this is this is one I'm hunting, and I'm gonna make the best of it.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Yeah. Well, Robbie, I love it. And I'll uh I won't keep you too much longer, but um just in like three to four minutes, what would you if you could give advice to to uh uh uh I'll say a I don't know a guy mid-20s, got a handful of points. His goal is to kill a 180 buck, what would you what would you tell him in the next in the next three years? He really wants a 180. What would you tell him?

SPEAKER_00 46:05

Well, be a good researcher, you know, make sure you you you know what hunting fools saying and epic outdoors, those guys are all good. Join monster mulies, you know, all that stuff. Um, you know, um don't chase phantoms, what I said before. Um don't just think the big bucks are all in the 10-point units, and if you just hang on one more year and you get that extra point, you're gonna get them. Those days are gone. That's like 2005. You know, we're not going back to that. And so um be realistic in your goals. And, you know, dude, I would love to get another 200-inch buck in my life, but you know, I don't I don't know what's in the cards. So I just want to hunt, I want to hunt the best bucks available in the units I can get into. And so that gets down to scouting or local knowledge, you know, talking to guys, what's what's you know, you can't hunt unicorns, you can't go think you're gonna shoot a 200, and you know, you you talk to the guy that's lived in the unit for 25 years, he's a good deer hunter, and he's like, Yeah, we killed one 200 about six years ago. Well, you're probably not gonna get one, you know, but but you can still get a nice, really nice good buck and everything. So be realistic about that stuff. Um, you know, like I said, it took me a while in my life to get some balance. You know, don't don't piss off your wife and your family for hunting, you know. Um, you know, I mean, you know, my my wife was great, she's one of the most easy-going women out there, but I always took care of her needs. I always did. I always made sure there was enough money. I wasn't just off, you know, pissing away money and and you know, my kids are eating cold Cheerios, you know. Um, you know, I just made sure everybody was taken care of. And we weren't rich by any means, but like last year, dude, I'm 50, 56 last year. First time I got to go to old Mexico, I've been trying to go since I was 25. I didn't go borrow a bunch of money, I did anything. I waited until I had the money. I had a few friends tease me, like, oh, going to Mexico now. I'm like, do you think I would go if I didn't have the money? I wasn't going to Wyoming when I was 20 because I didn't have the money, you know. So stay on your budget. And by doing that, you'll get you'll get a real sober look at what's available to you. And then I think you can be a better hunter. You're not always looking over the horizon, you're not always grass is greener, you know, you're just like, hey, this is my opportunity here. You know, you mentioned, hey, there's some units in Utah that's probably not over 170 buck. Well, if that's what you're stuck hunting, then you're gonna have to be happy with 170 buck. Or tell you what, partner, go well cutting. There's a heck of a lot more of them right now, and a lot more opportunity and a lot less point creep. Um, uh, and so that's what that's what I would tell him be realistic, have a budget, take care of your priorities, take care of your job, take care of your family. Dude, part of the reason I got to enjoy hunting the way I did, I took care of my boss. I worked for the same guy for 34 years, man. I knew what he wanted out of me. I made sure I delivered or over-delivered, and then if I needed some time or whatever, I wasn't just taking from the company. I'd already added to the company. So, you know, thinking about things like that.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

I love that. I love that. Out of the box and just practical advice. Well, Robbie, that's why I wanted to have you on here. I always appreciate your perspective and your optimistic attitude. So, anyways, finally uh nice. It's super nice getting to talk to you and meet you face to face, kind of through a Zoom call or whatever. But thank you so much for jumping on, Robbie, and I'll be cheering for you this year.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Hey, dude, back at you, dude. And tell Brian hi and I'm I'm I'm and tell him it's about time you guys got a podcast. Can't wait to listen to his. And um uh you're the right man for the job. You're good, you're good at it. And like you said, man, I've always liked your vibe, you know, taking your kids hunting and you know the things that you've shared on Instagram, and just keep doing it, buddy. We need more positive guys out there like you. There's enough negativity out there.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

I appreciate it. Thanks a ton, Robbie. You enjoy the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

You you bet. You let me know if I can help you with anything else.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

I will, man. We'll see ya. Hey, buddy.