So You're in the Arts....Still?

Everyone has their own opinion about what a successful life in the arts is supposed to look like, and the time line it's supposed to take to get there. Well maybe everyone should keep their opinions to themselves.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

We've seen it over and over. An actor stands on stage in tears with a newly won award in their hands and tells everyone aspiring to be them that if you just keep going, if you are persistent and talented and love what you do, you will succeed. But in an industry that continues to be oversaturated with talent and underperforming with opportunity, it's time to admit that no matter how hard you work and how talented you are, there's a good chance you will never break through and have a career in the arts. You just have to decide, are you okay with that? This is Raging Gracefully. Everyone, welcome to Raging Gracefully, the podcast where two women are just navigating what the hell it means to get older as a woman and be a creative and just trying to figure it all out. I'm Ashley. And I'm Sue Haley. And we're just really excited to get going. We thought like for the first episode, we would just kind of rock out with talking about career. We're both creative humans, and we're just like, let's just get into it. Let's just go for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yeah, I like that. This is gonna be our first episode, and um um Ashley's gonna kick it off with what her process was kind of like entering this creative stage.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Yeah, I think what's crazy is that like I I think this all rolls back to and we're gonna talk about this, but like how you where you think you're supposed to be or what you're supposed to achieve by certain points in your life as a creative. And like I went to theater school and we had our senior year, we had a class called Business and Professional Aspects of Acting. And our professor had been a actor years ago, but you know, like a lot had just kind of transitioned into being a professor. And it was just wild that he was giving like advice on how to like save money and and some of the advice was valid, you know, like he was like, You should, and this was in 2007. So he was like, You should move to New York City with no less than 10 grand if you want to just like get an apartment, feel comfortable kind of settling in. And like Wow. I it wasn't a it wasn't bad advice. I mean, I went to school in Dallas, and so like to do a cross-country semi, you know, type of move, like, and I did, like, I ended up staying in Texas for an extra uh six to seven months and just worked at a restaurant and saved up a ton of money, so and like did nothing else so that I could move to New York with like enough cash to like settle in. But what was crazy to me is he said to us, I think it was, he might have said three months, which feels extreme, but it might have been three years. He was like, if within three years of moving to New York, you're not, you're not making your money only off acting, you're not an actor anymore. You're a waiter. Wow. And that was so terrifying, right? You're graduating college, you're like 22 years old. And unfair. But it just shows how like out of touch people who weren't actively in the industry were. Like, so I moved to New York and it was like, you know, I started hitting like cattle calls and all that kind of stuff. But it was crazy. The worst.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

I haven't heard that call that in a long time.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

That was like, I mean, that's what it felt like, you know, you would show up as a nun. It was right. That's what it felt like. But it was just crazy because I it's still haunts me because you like, I think about what I thought my career would look like and how that's like changed and how that's morphed and what what you define successes and where you think you'd be at a certain point. And now I'm in my early 40s and I do not make my money off creating my creative endeavors still. Um yeah, so it's just like, I mean, I'll get back into it because I want to let you hear your initial like experience. Yeah, it was just kind of wild of how you were held to this standard or like this expectation of being like, if you don't hit a certain like you can't call yourself an artist or an actor if you're not dot dot dot, which is like such bullshit. And I'm just I'll let you go. I'll come back.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah, it is. I mean, I think I would have been, I want to say deflated if your professor said that to me. And then I would have had anxiety. Like, wait, you feel pressure? You're like on a deadline to do what? That you can't control things. You cannot control so that's what I want to start off with. It's like, you know, I started doing theater in like second grade in my drama club, and I was like, if not the lead, the supporting to all these like little plays. But I always knew that's what I wanted to do. But I grew up in the South Bronx, like in the ghetto. And I did. And I went to this Catholic school, and then we moved from there and we went to another part of the Bronx. It wasn't so much ghetto. It was still not great, but it wasn't the ghetto. And I remember people being like, You want to do what? And they were like, You can't do that because you live here. Because Yeah, well, you know, if you think about it, it's this little neighborhood in this part of the Bronx where what they see is, you know, um star search and they see all these like so they're That's the access you have to like what successes. Yes, so they don't for them, it was like, what do you mean you're gonna be like on TV and these big movies and the Oscars? And it was like, no, I it just I like creating. Yeah. I wanna I wanna go for it. I wanna go into Manhattan and do this. I mean, fast forward two years later, and I did. I I moved out when I was 19 and I lived in Manhattan, and I did. Of course, the goal was to make all my money through acting. Who doesn't want that? Who doesn't want that? That's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

It's like, of course we all want that.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

So much more. Yeah. You have to like train. You have to constantly be in it.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Yes, you have to always be working towards something. And I also think that like what people who aren't in the industry, and maybe because of like social media things, like the message has gotten out a little bit more, but like just so you know, like one job can like affect your career in a positive way, but there it will probably not change your life. Like there are very it is so hard to get a job that will actually like snowball it into the thing of like, now I'm an actor forever and I never have to have a survival job. And I think people don't understand that, that they think like, A, if you're not on Broadway, you're not successful, or if you're not like on, you know, like law and order, they're like, I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

You're an actor, but just one episode, but like they yeah, if you're not up there.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Then like you're not like a successful actor, quote unquote. And then yeah, and I I just I feel like people haven't under and that, yeah, and that sorry, I like lost my train of thought for a minute, but that like you people don't understand that like how often people will book something that seems big, but it it's like it's a finite contract. And like especially in theater, it's just like you work. I mean, if you're not on Broadway, you have a you have a specific contract for a regional gig or a tour or like even a limited engagement on Broadway, and then you're done. And it like if you're not, if you don't immediately have a next job, like you might have to go back to your restaurant job. Like I have friends who have done that, like, and people look down on you know survival jobs because they don't get it, but it's like they have no idea how many times they've been served by someone who was definitely on Broadway for a long time. It's like the idea of what success is and how you're supposed to be at a certain point at a certain age is is really wild to like the outside perspective.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, and you know what to piggyback that it's like those survival jobs that everybody's like, oh well, she's a waitress or he's a waiter or they're bartending. The reason we took those jobs, this is before all this social media and COVID, because we needed the daytime to do the auditions. Yes. It's not because, hey, that was the most appealing thing. Or it just that is kind of was the, what was it, the norm. So everyone pretty much who I worked with were artists. Yeah. Everybody I bartended with, waitress with, we were artists. And we either had acting class in the morning at one of the like little conservatories, you know, Meisner, Esper, you know, um Stella Adler, whatever it may be. And then at night, not at night, but you know, four o'clock came, five o'clock came, six o'clock came, okay, I'm going to my job. And that was not obviously that gets very exhausting. It's like having two full-time jobs. It really is. But that's how much I loved it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I always used to think, okay, this person, and I'm not knocking it, but this person has this nine to five and whatever, but do they feel the fire I feel? Mm-hmm. Because I don't know if I'm willing to give that up.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

I have thought about that too, because I just like, you know, I have so many, I have a lot of friends who have found fulfillment elsewhere now at a at this age. And like, if they have the opportunity, they definitely would perform or anything, but they've like transitioned to either like job jobs or like teaching or coaching and like, and that's great because I they are making money. Like it's better than me. And so But I I do, I am in a I still in my life, I'm just like, I'm I cannot give it up. Like I cannot be doing a job and not be creative in some form. Like it's just not, it's not satisfying in my life if I'm not making something or working on something, sometimes to a fault, sometimes like too much. Like I say yes to too many things. It's well, yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

I know they will, yeah, you do. I know. But I'm like, I'm that's how I feel. So I had to be put in a position recently where I was like, okay, do I just take a management job? Because I have experience in that. And I think I told you this. It's like all of me was like, no. Like I internally felt sick. I cannot do this. I cannot spend this next chapter of my life just doing something for the paycheck again. Yeah. I can't do it. I can feel it in my body that it's a big no. So now I'm in this place where it's like, I told you I went FICOR and now I audition all the time. But I started out rusty after COVID, because it had been a while, and now I feel so back in my groove, in my choices, in everything that I do. And I feel like I got a lot of me back. Uh because I felt like I lost a lot of me.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

I think that's what's crazy is that like you and I have both briefly discussed about how like right before the pandemic hit, like we both had some momentum going. And like, you know, I've had to I think what's also hard to explain to people, and I don't like want to get into it, but like getting contracts for like union stuff and getting your union membership, it is very tricky. And like I know in a theater world, getting into the union back then, now it's rules have changed and it's easier to get in. But back then it was very tricky, and like I wasn't actively pursuing musicals at that time, and that was the easiest way to get an equity contract because it's just bigger casting, to be honest. It's just numbers. Um, it's not like it's easier to be in a musical, it's insanely hard. But like um, but with normally I would be going in for plays and it would be like six people, and two of them were going to celebrities, and you know, it's like at best I was probably gonna be considered for an understudy, if that. Um, which is also fine. Understudies are amazing, and usually uh not usually, a lot of times very not only as good as the person on stage, but like better.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

That's what I hear.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Yeah, it's just about like stunt casting. Anyways, all right, before the pandemic, it was like I had gotten finally into the union. I was finally getting into like, even if they were like uh EPAs, like equity principle casting, uh like so they were like cattle call type of stuff, but I would sign up for an appointment. So like I still knew I could get in and I would do that, and I was like getting callbacks for regional theaters, and I was like having really great response in the room. I would have directors in the room remember me from the last time I came in from them, and it was like really great. And I it was just so crazy that like I'm not kidding, I think I said it's some of the best auditions of my life in like late February, early March 2020, and then the world shut down and it true like it took me so long to get momentum in the city that it was like I don't have representation, I'm not famous, and I didn't go to grad school for acting. So in theater, that is really hard to get noticed if you don't have those things. And so after COVID hit, after like people were starting to come out of it and theaters were starting to reopen and have auditions, I was just like, I'm I'm back to zero. Like I'm in my mid-30s at the time, and now I'm starting over. And it felt, it felt crazy to be like, it felt really um like I guess like hopeless. I don't know. It felt really um disencouraging. Unattainable, discouraging hard discouraging is a good word.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

I think discouraging. That's I was like, what is the word I'm looking for? Discouraging feels probably where you were going.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Right? Like it just felt like how am I supposed to do it took years and years to do this to begin with, and now like I'm gonna start over at like 36. Like, what do I do? And and like holding yourself to this standard that like no one set except for like the outside world and yourself, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah. You know, I was like big go-getter, still am, but yeah, I got my agent really networking and kind of figuring out who's with who and how do I get in and doing my research, asking a lot of questions at these cattle calls that I hated. Mm-hmm. I really did. And um seeing how they got it, because again, I came from somewhere that my mom didn't know how to get me into this business, and no one in my high school wanted to do this. So it was just me. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna get in, I'm gonna do this. And I did do it to my credit. I did it. I got innovative. I got my SAG card on my very first film audition. Incredible. Like I booked it. You're feeling great. I was I had my own trailer. This was like a big deal in 2008. Oh my gosh. And I got my SAG card, and then after that, I kind of like had really good traction. I mean, I did some pretty like big commercials that paid, and I could kind of lay off the bartending not as many days.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Which feels amazing, right? You're like making money off like everything you want to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

I was young and I was like, yeah, no, this is it. I'm I'm getting there, I'm getting there. And the truth is that that can change so quickly. And the whole union thing for SAG, I don't know how it is now. It was hard to get in back then. You need three major principal roles and two something else, or one huge production, which is what I got. But what they don't tell you pretty much is that for theater, you're saying you didn't go to grad school and all that. Where I've been told this from casting directors. You can go in the room to audition for a TV role or a film role, and the director and writer already know what they're looking for. So if it's just the imagery and it is not me, and they can't think to themselves, it's not really where I was going, even if I rock the audition, I'm not gonna have a chance. And this is coming from several casting directors. And I'm like, wow, okay. So it's a little different because I think they've made up their mind already.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

Yeah, and they don't have imagination to expand on what they thought they wanted. And I think that's also something that's really hard that, like, I mean, it got to a point when I was working at restaurants that like if people asked if I was an actor, I said no. I remember this. I would tell them I wasn't because it's like so hard to explain these details. Like you said, to be like, I'm actually pretty good and like I've had some success or had like some good auditions or good callbacks. And wait, wait, I can have a great thing for you.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

What? Tell me you're I'm in a restaurant and you're serving me ready? Yeah. Tell me that you're an actor.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah. Oh yeah. So like I I'm an actor. Yeah. Oh yeah, what have you been in?

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Immediately throw out.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

That was me. That was me. It was like, oh my God. Well, what have you been? Have you been in anything that I could see in anything? What have I seen you? Anything coming in? You have anything you've got to do. What have I seen? Questions wow blow your mind.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

And then you're just like, Yeah. Because that and that, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Because then they see you and they're like immediately judging you that you're a failed actor. Which but that's not what you are. It's not what you are. And also as we get older, like I don't even think that's a term that should be used anymore. Because I mean, it's just like if you were working as a a banker and you're like, you know what, I don't like doing this anymore because it isn't fulfilling, or I don't like working at this bank because they don't treat me well. And I'm gonna go into something else. People wouldn't be like, you're a failed banker. They'd be like, you pivoted, you weren't happy. You were, you know, it's like they wouldn't be like you failed at banking. They would be like, you found something else that fulfilled you, or you changed and pivoted to something adjacent that made sense for you. You know, it's like, I feel like Or even better.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

That's so great that you did that. Yeah. Most people wouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Most people wouldn't do it, and it's like, oh, because you couldn't. Was it too hard? Was it too much? It's a lot, right? It's a lot, right? But then there is not for the faint of heart, right? Oh my god. No, stop saying that. If you could do anything else, you should do it. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Oh, on that note, I had a um just because she just popped into my head. There was this older woman and she was really good friends with Woody Adwin. Mm-hmm. And she said to me, if you want to be an actress, dear, you have to have no boyfriends, never get married, do not have relationships, because they come in the way. You must be laser focused. And I thought for a while, after I was in relationships, and then I wasn't getting where I thought I'd go. I'd go, maybe she was right. Maybe maybe it was the damn men. Maybe I needed to not be in any relationships and just she was like, I know you're not gonna believe me. This woman was in her 80s. She was she was not playing.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

Yeah, I bet.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

She scared the crap out of me. Because I was like probably seeing two guys at that time, and I was like, oh shit, well, how do I do that?

SPEAKER_03 18:03

I think it is a difficult balance, and I feel like, but and you're right, like then you get to a point where you're like, Well, do I have time to balance like the relationship? And if I found somebody I want to spend my life with, do I want to like what kind of sacrifice does that mean? Does that mean I sacrifice my relationship or sacrifice my career? And like, and then and it yeah, I I don't I still don't know the answer to that. I mean, I know that there's been like now that I'm primarily in comedy, like just like theater, like most of that is during the evening. And my husband works a nine to five. And so it has been really, it's been really tricky and like a big balance and a lot of like communication of being like, I have rehearsal, like it's Monday and I'll see you Saturday, you know, like type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

And not that takes a lot of communication.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

A lot of communication and a lot of like support and understanding of like not that I'm not prioritizing or like I'm prioritizing things as I need to. It's not being like you're not as important as my career, but it is like this is important to me, and like I don't want to just be a bartender. Like it be for people who do, like, good for you. I it's exhausting. Like, I I salute you because I've done it for so long, and it's like it's physically taxing and emotionally taxing, and you know, I I just don't think I actually have it in me to like do that for my life, but but it it's just like I having to decide the balance of like a relationship with your career, and then like I said, as you continue to get older to be like, well, I do want to spend my life with someone that I care about, you know, because careers are touch and go for creatives, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

I mean, and also nothing lasts forever, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

In the sense that that let's say you do get that job, it's gonna be a job that eventually does come to an end. Yeah. Right, exactly. So it's always a huge question. How much of me and my dreams do I give up for s this other part of my life?

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

And I hate to say it like that because it's not like one is more important than the other. Right. But in the end, one is always more important than the other. In some level. Like for me, as you know, I have two kids. Mm-hmm. It's hard. Yeah. Because once you have your kids, nothing comes before your kids.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

I was just gonna say they come first always, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

There is no leverage there. Just is, and I'm not saying that in a bad way, but for women who have children, when you have your children, there is a part of you that gets lost, and you may not get it back. When they're little, you can consume yourself with a lot because you're busy, but there will come a point where you will either resent your choices or question how much did you actually put effort in? How hard did you actually work? Because they do go to bed. Do I do extra work when they're in bed? And that's where I'm at. And you have to be okay with that. So I check in a lot with myself now. Yeah. Now. Yeah. Because there was a lot that I didn't. Everything you and you have a child, you can laser focus so much that you don't check in at all.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

Mm-hmm. And you lose yourself. It's hard to lose yourself. Yeah. I also feel like this is something else we had said we wanted to chat about, which I think this could kind of segue into it, is like the fear and how that pushes you. And like of of like the fear and the telling yourself, like, if I keep working and being focused and working hard, it will pay off. And like and and I had said to you that I'm like, well, I've hit a place where I'm like all out of fucks, and I'm just like, I'm just gonna I'm like, I want to get to that point. I just like did I hit it after COVID when I started getting into comedy. I was just like, this is something that I have always wanted to do and it's going well and I enjoy it, but it's just like now I'm just like, well, I'm 86 fucks, like right? Like I don't, I don't care. And I'm like, if nothing else happens, I I love what I'm doing in my life and it's very fulfilling to me. And I've met incredible people. I'm working with incredible people. I'm being asked to work with incredible people, and they continue to make me laugh, and that's so cool. And but it's like, but I I think what you've also said to me is like so, so important of being like this mentality. Of being like, no, I am working really hard. And so like it's gotta pay off, right? Like, dot, dot, dot, like, right? It's the believing.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Right? It's that faith. So two things is like, I recently have been like, not recently, it's been a year now that I'm like intentionally go to bed and wake up going, okay, God, so I'm gonna give it to you, but I'm gonna work my ass off and still give it to you so that when you think it's ready, I'm ready for it, you're gonna give it to me. That's me believing in the higher power and thinking maybe they know something that I don't, right? And then there's something that I wanted to say to you. That whole fuck it thing is beautiful. I'll tell you why. I'm glad you think because I read it this way. When you say fuck it to something, like, okay, um fuck it, it's like with the whole acting, like in acting, when you say fuck it, you give it all because you forget about caring so much about everything. Mm-hmm. And I truly believe that a lot of times that's where the juice comes in. It's like I didn't care anymore. And now look. And it's not that you really didn't care, it's just that you said, okay, I'm accepting this. Yeah, and it's like, I don't know how to do it. I'm happy here. Yeah. I'm I'm happy here. I'm good here. I like where I'm at. Yeah. I don't know if that's what you meant.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

No, I think you're right. I think you're totally right. And I like I feel and I I also like I definitely flip to your your mentality that you've had of like, no, I keep working hard. Like it's going to pay off. Like I I continue to like be on top of my shit. Yeah. It's like, is it a lie? Or like, is it like, what's the lie you tell yourself to be like, I am a hardworking person and like I yeah, I do think I like am talented. I'm not talented all the time. I'm also just like sometimes I do a great job at stuff, sometimes I don't. And like that's being an artist. Like you're not gonna hit home runs every time. That's also just like part of it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

There's also that thing that I think is very true is without fear and without failure, you can't actually get anywhere. Mm-hmm. So fear for me is like something that holds you back so long until you realize like you can't stay there. Mm-hmm. It's uncomfortable. You gotta move no matter how afraid you are, because you'll stay stuck. And then if you are gonna fail, it at anything that you really want to succeed at, there's gonna be moments of lows where you fail. I can't imagine that it's all up up.

SPEAKER_03 24:23

Yeah, I think that's what's what's crazy is like after after the pandemic, when I was just like, okay, theater's taking a long time to come back, and like a lot of the smaller theater companies that I used to work with or people I would audition for, like kind of got out of theater because the funding was gone and rebuilding was too hard. And so I was like, I've always been so scared to get into comedy. Like it was just felt niche and I wasn't cool enough. And like I just felt like I was not part of that community in a way I wanted to be. Basically, I just felt like I wasn't cool enough to do it. And so I was just like, I had always gone to see shows and stuff like that. And then I was like, like I said, it was post-COVID, and I was like, fuck it. I have nothing to lose. I'm gonna take classes in writing sketch comedy like I want to do, because I've always loved it. And so I'm just like, I'm gonna start taking classes and learn how to do this. And I did, and it worked out very quickly in a way that I was like, oh, if I would have just stopped being so fucking scared. And also, like, you know, I I mean, I still sometimes have this imposter syndrome because so many of the people I'm currently working with are younger than me and have been doing it for twice as long as I've been doing it, if not more. And I'm like, feel like I'm playing catch up in my 40s of being like, well, these people are in their 30s and they've been doing it since their 20s, and like I was doing theater and now I'm like in a like an adjacent world, but not the same. Like, you know, sketch comedy at improv world is so different. And it just feels like, but I but I think, like you said, the fear is like it holds you back in a way that I'm like, I wish I would have just gone for. I wish I would have just stopped. I wish I would have just said fuck it and been like, there are no rules. Like, don't stop letting people tell you when it's too early or too late to do something.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah. And just do it. Like, who cares? I mean, that's a whole nother, we could probably do a whole nother episode just on the fact of like that, like who says that you're on this timeline? Yes. Sometimes it's ourself. We put these standards on ourselves. It has nothing to do with anyone else. And sometimes it's the people you surround yourself with and society with the you're how old and you're not do you want children? Or wow, but you haven't really booked much. I mean, those type of things where I'm at a point in my life where I'm like, yeah, but in my head, I go, okay, but are you happy doing what you're doing? Like, right. I don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

I mean, I I mean, it just makes like I'm still at least I'm still pursuing something that makes me happy. You know, I'm just like, why is it any also why is it any of your fucking business? It's none of their fucking business. To be hon right, it's just like I just don't when someone isn't it's also again, it's so wild to me that like, especially in the acting world, it's like one of the only industries, in my opinion, of what I've experienced, that someone can like openly judge you about where you are. Like I feel like I'm not saying it's right, but I feel like another having another actor be like, oh, and little judgy, I'm like, well, you're in it, you know how it how it works. But having like people, the table that you're serving at the restaurant, having them make snap judgments when they know nothing about the industry, it feels like acting as one of those only is one of the only mediums where like complete strangers can be like, I'm gonna have an opinion about your career even though I'm not in it and I don't know anything about you. When I would never do that, if somebody was like, Yeah, I went to business school and like, whoa I applied to everything, but right now I'm kind of just like working at an ice cream shop because there aren't any jobs, I wouldn't be like, boo, you know, I wouldn't be like, I wouldn't be like, you're terrible, you don't know what you're doing, you're failure. I would never think that about someone in another industry.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah. And you know what? Sometimes, if not all times, I think that there's a lot of projection there.

SPEAKER_03 27:56

Yeah. That's such a good point.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

I mean, I think people love when they feel bad or they feel a certain way about their lives. Or unhappy or they come at you. I don't know what happens to them. I don't know how much joy they get from trying to make you feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_03 28:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

But you can't get a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

Like a power thing or something. I don't know. It's fucking weird.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

That it's also like a lot of people are not happy with their lives either. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

There's a lot of facade.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Yeah. There's a lot of um labels.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

I'm, you know, I work I'm vice president of this company, or I'm, you know, I run a whole whatever. Sure. And you know, it's the labeling, it's the title. Some people just take the job for the title. I'm good. I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, I'm fine.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

I was like, I've made it this far without having any titles like that. Like, I don't need it now. It's whatever.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

And I don't think they're wearing it any timeline. I mean, imagine you really and I think there comes a time where you start to feel like you're getting older and things, and maybe that's where it all creeps in.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

But what if you didn't think that way? Yeah. Let the chips fall where they may, right?

SPEAKER_03 29:06

Like Yeah. Let's see. I'm also seeing a lot of my friends in their 40s like thrive. Like I'm seeing things finally hit for them in a way because you know who you are, you feel more confident about who you are, you care less about what other people think about you. So, like you said, you just walk into the room and you're like, fuck it. Like you're in your body. You're in your body.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

Yeah, that is a good thing. Like, getting older is has been hard, but like, but I will say that there's something about like feeling grounded and knowing more who you are. Even if you're like, wow, my life's a mess. I don't know what I want or I don't know where I'm gonna end up. Like, if you can try if you can kind of focus and zero in on who you are and know that, I think it'll it helps. You know, it's just like, well, I can only do my best and you either cast me or you don't, but I know that I did my best and I worked really hard.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

And that's really all I can do about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

I think if you can leave the room knowing, like, I really, I really did great there. Like, I know I did great. Yeah. Everything else has nothing to do with you. You can't control the room and the people in it. No. But, you know, it's hard. It's hard because, like you just said something interesting. A lot of your friends are now thriving. So I went to school with a lot of the actors now that are on some major roles. Um not just one episode. I'm talking about their leads.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

There's arcs involved in their plot and there's character.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Four of them that I sat in class with. And I do have this mental, I don't even know, it's dialogue where I'm like, first I hear that lady go, no relationships. Like, wait, what is that real? Because I, you know, two of them really didn't have any. But then I wonder through their inner dialogue go, I didn't like do anything else but this. I mean, there's so many ways to look at it that it could just go on and on and on. It messes with your head. I'm really happy for them because I know them and they're all really good people, and they're all really good artists. I just am like, some part of it gives me hope.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Of course. Some part of it. Yeah. Now, if I could just get like an agent that actually works, we'd be good. Just somebody who actually wants to get paid and sees me in my light. We'll see. I guess, you know. Like again, I wake up in the morning, I'm like, I'm gonna do all my work. Let me know when that agent's coming.

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Yeah, like let me know any of the rewards in my life.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Not that you need an agent for everything, but no, for the major, there's things that they get that you can't get. Yeah, on your own. That's all.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Which is also something that's hard to explain to people. It is, yeah. It's just one of those things that I'm like, I'm so cautious about. And I I guess I should. I mean, or I used to be cautious. I don't really encounter it anymore, but like I was so cautious about telling people if I was an actor, because there was always this immediate judgment. And like you said, judgment. What have I seen you in? And now I'm just kind of like, you don't even know what you're talking about. So, like, I'm gonna tell you what I do, and I'm gonna tell you how I operate. And like, if you judge me, like I don't care, you're a stranger, I'm never gonna see you again. And like you said, I'm like, are you 100% happy with where you are in your life? Because you probably aren't. Like, who no one is where they thought they would be. That's the biggest thing, is I'm like career-wise, like Well, I don't think anybody's where they thought they would be. No one is where they thought they would be. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm mad about it. I'm very happy on the track that I'm on, but it's like this isn't when I moved here almost 20 years ago. I'm just like, this isn't what I expected my life to be. And that's kind of just like what it is. And I don't know. It's like I'm I'm I'm very satisfied right now with like, and I feel like, like I said, there are moments of like feeling like I'm playing a little bit of catch up in the industry that I'm in right now. But overall, I'm like, I'm really what I do it makes me very happy. So I'm like, it's fine. If my day job is like some type of survival job, it's whatever. Cause I just like, this is very cool what I'm I love what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

You know, there's also this whole thing where like I didn't get in this to be famous. Yeah. And there's a lot of like that. But I actually I love to create. Yeah. I love to get that script and make my choices and go deep and work out with like another actor. I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 33:12

And like you said, it all kind of feeds into it's into each other, like being creative and enjoying it, like people sense that.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

You know?

SPEAKER_01 33:20

You're just happier. Like I'm happier now doing a lot more creative things. Yes. And like I said, I stalled for a long time and I felt, you know, I just felt very defeated or discouraged. It would be like frustrated, sad sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Because um, but I've had to learn how to balance my family life. But like I said, I just have to make sure that throughout the day a lot of my things are done so that I could do other things. Because I can't just not do a lot of the things that I I'm a mom.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

Right. But I'm not just a mom. Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Uh all right, guys. Thank you so much for listening. Please tune into episode two, which should be coming out shortly. I'm Ashley. And I'm Sue Haley.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

And um, you know, just be good where where you at.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Yeah. And thanks for tuning in to Raging Gracefully.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Raging Gracefully. Thanks, guys. Bye.