Three Ways to Help Grieving Singles

Welcome to the Singles Oasis Podcast! We are starting off season one by focusing on Mental Health Awareness Month and grief.  Host Mary Bowen, and her special guest, Chrystal Ojo, CEO of Sound Mind Health Services discuss some of the stigmas surrounding mental health in the church and they provide tips on how to help singles currently experiencing grief.

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Thank you for tuning in! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

So good evening and welcome to the singles oasis. We are back and I am so excited tonight. I'm excited for our panelists. I should say our guest speaker. I'm so excited that we have the opportunity to talk about mental hellness. Wellness. Look, we are tongue-tied today. Lord help me. Right now, uh, I briefly want to let our audience know a little bit more about the singles oasis. So the singles oasis is a gathering place and a ministry specifically designed for singles. Uh many singles have found that, okay, God, where do we belong? Where do we fit in the body of Christ? There isn't a specific ministry for us. You know, there's a ministry for married, uh, married persons, there are ministries for children, a ministry for youth and young adults. But God, what about us? The Singles Oasis answers that question. So again, we are a refuge and we are a place where singles can gain godly wisdom in their walk with Christ. We talk about a variety of topics, everything from dating to loneliness, rejection, healing, again, mental health, which is something that is near and dear to my heart and also near and dear to our guest speaker's heart on tonight. So uh again, I wanted to welcome you all to the Singles Oasis. And again, we are here for you. So, as I previously mentioned, May is Mental Health Awareness Month. And with that being said, I wanted to make sure before the month closed out that we actually talked about mental health. We don't want to let this month go by without touching on it. I feel, and I'm sure many of our viewers feel, that the body doesn't really talk about mental health, it's it's kind of swept under the rug. There's some preconceived notions, there are some mindsets and things of such that just kind of basically ignore it, and we no longer want to do that. So on tonight, we are going to hear from our very special guest, uh Crystal Harris. Before I turn the mic over to Crystal, I want to tell you a little bit more about her. I've known Crystal for quite some time. We actually went to high school together, so we have some history. Um I'm so happy that Crystal is able to join us. So if Resilience had a name, it will be Crystal Harris. Recently widowed from her college sweetheart, she is determined to see her pain turned to purpose for the glory of God and for the good of humanity. Starting her career in the corporate world, Crystal made a bold shift into mental health nursing, a move that fuels her passion and gives her a unique, down-to-earth perspective that resonates deeply with women in both corporate spaces and faith-based circles. Crystal launched Sound Mind Health Services LLC in 2022, which is an outpatient mental health clinic that services over 200 patients in the state of Michigan. With over 10 years as a nurse practitioner, Crystal blends faith with modern medicine to bring a powerful balance to mind, body, and spirit. Her warmth and relatability make her a standout in healthcare, where she's helped countless individuals to come from surviving to thriving. As a speaker, Crystal has a gift for drawing people in with her authenticity. She's known for wrapping real hard truths and humor, making even life's biggest challenges feel conquerable, conquerable. Crystal doesn't just speak, she doesn't just speak to inspire, she speaks to uplift, empower, and energize. So I'm gonna stop talking for a moment. And Crystal, I'm gonna turn the mic over to you. So welcome and thank you for coming to the singles oasis on tonight.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Oh man, Miss Mary, it's so good to see you. I am honored beyond words. The longest bio ever.

unknown 4:24

It just keeps going.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

I know it's borderline obnoxious. But anyway, thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I don't know how else to be except myself, but I'm so grateful to be here to talk about this passion point of mine of mental health. This is my jam, all things mental health. And uh people may or may not know this, but this is actually the last place I ever wanted to work. Like I call this my never place. If you want to make God laugh, tell him what you'll never do. And I said, I'm never gonna work in mental health. I'm never gonna do that. And here I am, not just working in mental health, but really feeling sincerely called to help fill the gap along with my other colleagues in this space. Um, we are in a global mental health crisis. News flash, and maybe you didn't know that, but certainly post-pandemic, people are hurting internally, and it's being expressed in a myriad of ways, many influences, and then especially if you're in the faith community where there's additional stigmas on top. I'm not gonna get into our notes, but we'll get that later, get there later on. This is something that we it's beyond time for us to talk about, to no longer dance around, to no longer put sling oil on top of it, sprinkle holy water on it. It's time to talk about it, it's time to deal with it, and that's what we're here to do tonight.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Period. Yes, we will because we're not sweeping anything under the rug. I mean, this is for for our for our viewers, this is going to be a candid, raw conversation. So, again, it it's gonna be God led, Holy Spirit-led, but also we're gonna keep it on the reel. We're not gonna dance around these tough topics. Um, thank you, Crystal, for introducing not only yourself to the audience and kind of telling us a little bit more about your occupation because what caused you to this is just a general question I had, what caused you to stumble into mental health given that this was like a hands-off area for you.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yeah, I ran so far away from it that I ran right into it, basically. And it was divine providence without sounding too deep. So I graduated from you know with my nurse practitioner in adult gerontology, which has nothing to do with mental health, and I could not find a job. Now, your girl, ain't never had no problem finding a job. And so I knew that something was up. I didn't know what it was. And one evening I was just scrolling trying to find something on Indeed. I'm like, I gotta make some money. I paid all this money for this degree. And the only response I got was from a gentleman in um East Lansing. He owned a practice, had been there for many years. He hired me on a Friday, on a Friday night. I thought it was a scam. He had me start on Monday. He's like, between Friday and Monday, read this book that's like akin to um psychiatric for dummies. So we had me had me read a book over the weekend. I started on Monday. He trained me for a week and then he left. And I virtually ran his practice by myself. No clue that I was ever gonna, I know, no clue that I was ever gonna work in mental health, but that is the place where my heart broke. And and you know that when you find your why because it makes you cry. I can't talk long about this topic without coming to a full week. That's when my heart broke for the conditions of men, women, boys, and girls uh with mental health um issues. That's when I saw the depravity of how they were treated. That's when I saw a lot of the unfairness, that's when I saw the maltreatment. It just was um it was beyond words, some of the things that I saw, and I and I knew then that I was called to help fill that gap. Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

That's that's heavy, that's heavy, and we need we need warriors. I truly believe that the Lord plants, he strategically plants people in different different professions, definitely, because he needs his strongest warriors to intervene and intercede. Yes, so here's my first question for you. So, why is mental health so important? Why is it important?

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Well, I believe mental health is so important because we nothing exists in a vacuum. So we are triune beings. If you're a person of faith, then you know that we're created in the express image of God, right? And that means just like it's God the Father, God the Son, God, Holy Spirit, there's three and one, we are created similar to that. There's mind, there's body, and there's spirit. So when there's something that is maladaptive, when there's something that is distorted in any three of those areas, it impacts the other areas. Now, I personally believe that the spiritual component is the most important of the three, but nothing happens in a vacuum. So if your mindset is is not healthy, um, if you're experiencing extreme anxiety, depression, um, you know, prolonged issues from trauma, grief, et cetera, all the things that we're gonna address tonight, it will impact you spiritually. It will impact you physically. And so those things all work together in tandem.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

And thank you for saying that because I really feel that there are some people that have a what's the word that I want to say? They and I don't want to call it a mindset, but I guess they have a perception thinking that if I take care of my body physically, I'll be okay. Or if I take care of my body mentally, I'll be okay. But if I but if I neglect just one aspect of my body, it just throws everything off. Everything is off-kilter because everything is connected and it like you say, it throws everything off.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Absolutely. Beloved, I wish above all things that you would prosper and be in good health. Here's the next part. Even as in conjunction with parallel to your soul prosperity. So God cares about the prosperity of our soul. What is your soul, your mind, your will, your emotion, your imagination, your affections, all those things together comprise human beings. And it's so important that we take care of ourselves in all three of those areas and aspects.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Oh, yes, yes. Thank you for the reminder. So, what are some ways that you've seen, Crystal, that the body of Christ has overlooked mental health in the church? Let's let's lay it all out.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Well, all right. Let's get juicy then. I so I'm a church kid, so I grew up in church, like in church all the time. And one of the things that I noticed when I got saved and gave my life to the Lord is that I got a Bible and a mask. Meaning I got my Bible and then I got a mask to cover up how I was really feeling. And I existed like that in Christendom for at least a decade of having internal experiences, feelings, desires, habits, hangups, whatever, and not sensing a safe space to express that, to be my true and authentic self. So what did I do? Like most people did, I assimilated. And so we have terminology for that now, one of which is spiritual bypassing. Spiritual bypassing is um using faith as a facade for your feelings. So, you know, it's like, okay, girl, I know that that terrible thing just happened to you, but ain't he all right? Won't he do it?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Praise him or hallelujah, anyhow.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yes. It's like, wait a minute. What I'm saying is I'm hurting. What I'm saying is I'm suicidal. What I'm saying is I'm not okay. I don't need you to sprinkle jute like holy jupes on top of it. I need you to sit with me, I need you to learn how to mourn with me. I need you to learn how to celebrate with me. I need you to accept the full expression of my humanity because God does.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

All right.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Oh yes, oh yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

So I'm getting excited. I'm getting excited about it. Because it's it's the truth. Because have you, I don't know about you, but I've I've noticed that some, including myself, I've experienced this. Let me just put this out there. You know, you see people praising and you see them shouting in church, you see them serving faithfully, but internally they're suffering. Internally, they feel as if they're dying. They're internally, they feel like, okay, no one is seeing any of this. I feel like I have to put on this mask, I feel like I have to put on this performance. I feel like I can't be vulnerable because I'm concerned about how people will treat me, how they will view me, and whether they will even maintain a duty of candor or if they're going to spread some type of lie or rumor about me at the and you know, in the church.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Here's the irony about that is that the Bible that we read is full of mental health issues from depression to anxiety to suicide, trauma, incest, rejection, everything you can think of is in your Bible. The Bible that you read, that you fall asleep to, that you carry around in your purse, and you so holy, that Bible is full of mental health issues. Why is that so important? Because God did not want us to ignore these things. We are made in his image, but we live in a fallen world, and there are many things that impact our mental and emotional health. And I would submit that spiritual bypassing is actually one of them. When you're having experiences, feelings, life experiences, whatever internally, and you don't have the safe space to express those things, that's traumatic. That's lonely, that's isolating. And then you add on top of that, because it's a singles oasis. Now you don't have a partner, perhaps you don't have a sister circle like I do. It's like doubling down on those uh symptoms. It's like adding fuel and flame to that fire. It does not make it easier, it makes it significantly more difficult. And we're going to talk about tonight how the church can help alleviate those things instead of adding pain, adding insult to injury. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

So let me ask you this. So, what are some stigmas you have heard, or maybe what are some things you've witnessed in the church concerning mental health and even the perspective surrounding counseling? Because I can at least tell you what I have heard in, you know, in my experience. I didn't grow up as a church kid, I did not um come into Christ, I did not give my life to Christ until my my late 20s, and I was messed up. I can definitely tell you that I have no shame in saying that. Like, you want to talk about toe up from the flow up? You want to talk about deliverance? I can talk to you about that, I can keep it real. But enough about that. But what I have heard, and in some of the things that I have witnessed, which is disheartening, I especially see I see this amongst the men, especially. I I've I've heard the you need the man up, you need to stop all that crying, you know, you need to swallow all that, put some hair on your chest, you know, you need to brush it off, shake it off. So there's the avoidance, there's there's not even an acknowledgement of how people not only feel, they don't even have a chance to experience, you know, what they're experiencing in the moment, they're expected to, okay, deal with it for five minutes and then move on to the next thing. I have heard, you know, you're not saved. If you're getting counseling, you're not saved. If you are struggling with this particular issue, or you haven't fully submitted your life to the Lord because you're still struggling with some type of addiction, or you're still dealing with some type of proclivities or tendencies. These are just some of the things that I've heard. But what have you heard and even what have you seen, you know, within your practice concerning the body of Christ and their take on mental health, counseling?

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Yeah. So let me preface this by saying that so much of what I'm about to mention and so much of what you're mentioning is changing. Thank God. The tide is changing. It's like turning the Titanic. You know, this is not a zero-turn lawmower, you can't just flip it on a dime. We're talking about years and years of ingraining of mentality, of mindset, of poor biblical literacy and interpretation that has just been expressed in this perpetuation of beliefs from the pulpit and by congregants. And so, because of that, there's this uh pressure, this stigma, you know, you mentioned how men are told to toughen up, and and that's true. And then the on the female side of that, there's this perpetuation of like what I call the superwoman syndrome, where women are like, you know, you have to wear this cape, you gotta do it all, you gotta be the perfect first lady, you gotta wear the hat just right, you gotta you gotta fit these roles that may or may not be suited to you, that may not be, may or may not be your divine design. Um, much like when David, you know, was trying on Saul's armor and he had to realize that thing don't fit me. It don't fit me to um to be that way, to play that role in church, or to play with that role in life. But when we funnel everyone through the same filter, that's when it gets difficult. And we don't allow for ourselves to truly and authentically be the real expression of God through me and the real expression of God through you, and to accept that they that those things are not always the same. They're they're vastly different, and that creates mental health uh issues. And so those stigma, those stigmas, like you mentioned, include shaming those who uh seek mental health uh counseling and treatment, um, saying things like, oh, you just need deliverance, or just pray about it, or um, or that, or whispering about, oh, that person is crazy, or whatever the case may be, um, downplaying our human experiences, um, dismissing our pain, um, and just you know, like we talked about the spiritual bypassing, those things are are just really poor. They they just produce poor outcomes for our mental and emotional health, and it's not healthy. On top of that, it's not godly.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

No, it's not no more, yeah. So I want to read a scripture to the audience really quickly before we shift into a subtopic of mental health. So I want to read Ecclesiastes chapter 3, verses 1 through 8. So to everything, there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven, a time to be born, and a time to die, a time to plan, and a time to pluck up that which is planted, a time to kill, and a time to heal, a time to break down, and a time to build up, a time to weep, and a time to laugh, a time to mourn, and a time to dance, a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together, a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing, a time to get and a time to lose, a time to keep and a time to cast away, and a time to rend and a time to sow, a time to keep silence, a time to speak, a time to love, and a time to hate, a time of war, and a time of peace. So if you are not familiar with Ecclesiastes, at least these passages, these passages talk about different seasons, different different seasons, different occurrences that we may experience in our lives. To my viewing audience, if you haven't already, at some point in your life as a single, you will experience some type of loss. You may weep the loss, weep and mourn, excuse me, the loss of a loved one. And what we want to focus on for the remaining portion of our discussion tonight are our grieving singles. I fall in that category, Crystal falls in that category. So, what does grief look like for singles and how does grief affect us differently? So, before we really dive into it, Crystal, I need you to give us some basics. So, can you tell us exactly what is grief? Like what?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yeah, so grief is um it's a process, it's a journey. There is a real definition that I want to point out. It's the deep and poignant emotional distress experienced in response to a loss, particularly the death of a loved one. Here's why it outlines a loss because we can grieve a divorce, we can degree, we can grieve the detachment of a friendship, we can grieve the loss or changes in our health, declining of our health. We can grieve a lot of different things. But in tonight, in particular, we're gonna focus on the grief pertaining to the loss of a loved one and why that's so important. So I want to highlight a couple things about grief. Number one, grief is normal. If you're in the chat, put normal in the chat. Grief is normal. We want to normalize a grief process. We're not gonna shout on top, we're not gonna force the person to come shouting from the casket. Perhaps they can't even breathe, perhaps they can't even see straight. We want to normalize that. Grief is normal. Number two, grief is natural. This is not an abnormal, strange occurrence. Think it not strange. This is not an abnormal occurrence. Grief is natural. Number one, grief is normal. Number two, grief is natural, and number three, grief is a Process. It is a process. On top of that, it is a highly individualized process. What am I saying in layman's terms? Don't tell me how to grieve. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying I'm not going to tell you how to grieve. You're not going to tell me how to grieve. We're going to handle it by way of Holy Spirit, who knows each of us so intricately, so delicately, so perfectly, so completely, that He walks us through our grief process. And we can go through what a healthy grief process looks, sounds, feels like, versus what an unhealthy grief process looks, sounds, and feels like, so that you know where you are along your grief continuum. But we have to establish that framework that grief is normal, grief is natural, and grief is a process.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Yes. Thank you. So that helps. Thank you for providing a definition. So there's I've heard that there are stages to grief. In fact, I've heard that there are like five stages to grief. So what are the five stages of grief? And can you talk about them?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Sure. So there's at least five. Some will argue that there are seven, but five is kind of widely accepted, and I'll go through them. So number one is denial, and I'll I'll kind of talk about them as we go along. Denial is much like how it sounds. It's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this person passed. Um, it's that initial shock slash denial. That's usually where they they group those two things together. It's where your mind can't quite fathom what just happened. So the first one is denial. The second one is anger, self-explanatory, right? So you're angry, you're angry at yourself because you didn't show up for the person, you're angry at the person because they died and left you here. You're angry at God, you're angry at whoever had a hand in, you know, that that um, you know, whatever produced the person's passing. If if they didn't take them to the doctor enough, or they didn't, whatever. You're just angry. You could be angry at nothing at all, or everybody and everything. Anger. Number one denial, number two, anger, number three is bargaining. This is where you're like, man, if I could just have one more day with the person, you're begging God, you're trying to pray to everybody who listen. Let me just have one more day with the person. Then the next stage is deep, deep depression. This is where it's like it gets dark, and this is all remember we talked about how all this is normal. So if you're progressing through these stages, it is normal to go through that depression stage. What did I call it? A stage. It's different from a diagnosis. This is a stage of grief, and we'll talk about those differences. Lastly, is this the last stage, which is acceptance. When you come to a point where you have accepted, you acknowledge the person is deceased, they're no longer with us, etc. And you, I would say that the last stage comes with a point of peace where you're like, okay, this is no longer my reality. That person is deceased, I've accepted it, and I'm able to face forward and move on with my life. Okay, so I said them quickly, but we don't move through them quickly all the time. So I just named the five, but you could be going through these five stages of grief for two years, three years. Um, and nobody can control that, okay?

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Because that's a you brought up something that I'm curious about. So, in terms of grief, like is there a timeline or timetable for grief?

SPEAKER_00 25:13

I wish that would be amazing, but no, there isn't. It's so nuanced from person to person. It even depends a lot on the um the circumstances surrounding the person's passing. So um if your loved one died tragically, suddenly, it was completely unexpected. The expectation is that that grief process may be prolonged and maybe more complicated than someone who, let's say, was chronically ill or elderly. Those are very different circumstances. The loss of a child, different from the loss of a parent, different from the loss of a spouse. You know, all those things is so highly individual. That's why it's dangerous to judge, to inflict our own thoughts and opinions on another person's grief process. Please don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

I think one of the most insensitive things you can tell someone that's grieving, is like, girl, you need to stop crying about that. Girl, pick yourself up by the bootstraps. Girl, stop crying while you're doing all that crying. That was like five years ago. Because people have moments. Because that was something else I wanted to ask you about before we go back to um our discussion in grief. Why do people have moments? So let's say it's maybe five years later and they're still, you know, grieving the loss of a spouse, for example, or grieving the loss of a child. Why are they having these moments? And are there such a thing as things that trigger these moments?

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Absolutely, yes. So you answered the question in your answer in your in your own uh statement is that there are often triggers. There's internal triggers, uh meaning our own thoughts, feelings, the time of the month, what have you, the environment, uh I'm sorry, your internal feelings and an internal emotional environment can be a trigger. And then there are external triggers, a sight, a sound, a smell, uh um anything that's related to your five senses. If you go to a restaurant, you guys always just go to a restaurant. If you see a certain car, you see the car, whatever the case, you know, you smell the person's favorite cologne, all those things can be triggers. And when the trigger happens, it can um actually produce a grief wave. So oftentimes grief waves, grief waves are unexpected, they're unpredictable, you could be not thinking of the person at all, and then all of a sudden, in pops the memory, you know, and poof, there it is. You find yourself in the middle of Walmart crying over your tomatoes, and you don't know what's going on, and all that is normal. So when you're triggered, that's also normal. But we can we'll talk about some of the ways to kind of manage that, especially in the earlier stages of grief, so that you can function and kind of get live through it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

I know you may have alluded to this just a little bit, but can you kind of give some examples of what the various stages of grief may look like? It could be your own personal experience, or you can share an experience of someone else you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Sure, yeah. So um I don't know who all knows this, but I lost my husband to late-stage colon cancer in December of 23. And um, so I'm very familiar with the grief process. I used to teach and train on grief uh before his passing, and let's just say I tossed all of that out after I went through my own grief process. I'm like, let's just start from scratch and approach this very differently. So the initial denial, like when it set in, like, oh my gosh, he's actually gone, hard for the brain to wrap, you know, to kind of come to terms with that, even though I watched him take his last breath. Even even with that, though, it was difficult. So that initial denial, like, man, you know, feeling like he's gonna come home. And even though, you know, psychologically you know that he's not gonna come home, there's part of your heart that's still holding on. That's the best way I can explain that. It's part of your heart that's still holding on, that you just want this to be differently. And so with the second, that's denial phase. With this, and for me, that didn't last very long because I'm a very practical person. So uh as a nurse, you see a lot of things, you see people pass all the time. And I think just by way of my um profession and that mindset just kind of kicked in, and I'm like, all right, that's not a thing, he's gone. So I moved through that one pretty quickly. But if if his passing, like we discussed, was tragic, sudden, that might have taken me a lot longer to accept that because it's more jarring. You know, he was chronically ill. But for someone who, you know, you kiss your husband and they go off to work and then they don't come home. That's something totally different. The second stage that we discussed is anger. I was extremely angry. I was angry with him for leaving me with my big haired daughter to raise her by myself. I was angry with God. I was angry with myself. What could I have done differently? I'm a nurse practitioner. How could you let your husband die under your own watch and care? Like you're a terrible person, like all the things. Angry, angry, angry. That didn't last very long because my faith mindset kicked in, and I was able to go to God and grapple with him. So that's my story. That's that may not be your story. You could stay in the anger phase. Some people stay angry for years, and uh, it really just varies from person to person. So, in the anger phase, anger needs an outlet. Put that in the chat. Anger needs an outlet. This is not the space to bottle it in. Anger in turn, anger bottled up is pressurized. You ever seen one of those experiments where you put the bottle in the air and then it whoop poof and it explodes? Anger needs an outlet. That's not something that you want to ignore. So, what was my outlet? Journaling. What was my outlet? Prayer. I told God, hey God, I'm mad at you. I had conversations with with God, with people, with with myself. Anger needs an outlet. The last the third one, bargaining. I didn't spend long in this phase because I didn't spend long in the denial phase. So those two are kind of linked together. Um, but that's the part where you're like, man, if I could just have one more day with him, man, if I could just, you know, I had some of those feelings, some of those thoughts that I just desired one more time, one more chance, one more trip, one more, whatever. Okay, and then depression. This stage for me looked like intense, deep heartbreak. Like it was, it's hard to explain if you haven't experienced the death of a close loved one, the way that your heart aches. Literally, it um grief has physical manifest. I did not know that prior to going through my own grieving process. The the weight that I felt, the physical pain that I felt, um, the exhaustion that I felt after sleeping all night, still physically exhausted, the mental fogginess was embarrassing. If you have any, if you have any kiddos, you know what it's like to have the the mommy fog, mommy brain. It was like mom brain times a thousand. I literally just handed over my life to my siblings, like y'all gotta figure out everything because I got nothing. I don't know how to grocery shop without grocery shopping for him. I don't know how to fill out my car, I don't know how to do anything. And so that depression that lasted a little while. And then lastly, acceptance. For me, I'd say I moved through my grief process in about maybe six months, is how long it took for me. And I I I found that in my conversations with other people that that's relatively quick. I did not know that because I wasn't comparing. But here's what I did: I was very intentional to engage with my grief. I did not avoid it because of my line of work, because of my faith, because of my authentic prayer life and connection with God. It was there was something in me that knew that if I did not face this, I was gonna be stuck. And so I immediately started seeing my therapist every week. And then I started going to a grief support group that met weekly for 16 weeks. And then I eventually taught that group at my church. So I helped uh others through my grief process as well, not trying to be a champion, not trying to be extra, just really trying to heal, you know, recognized, recognizing that if I didn't do something, I had spent all of my adulthood with him. And I knew that if I didn't do anything intentional, I would be stuck there. So I hope that was helpful to see a practical application of how we can move through the grief process.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

That was definitely helpful because I was curious about more specifically, you know, what the acceptance process um looked like in particular, because I'm not as familiar, you know, with that process, and at least what I can say in my instance, it took me a bit longer to accept the fact that my grandfather is no longer here. Um, my grandfather passed away in September of 2023, and he passed away a month before just yeah, a little under a month before he um was gonna turn 90 years old. And I had wanted to throw a birthday party for him. I wanted, and I just one of the things that I felt, I felt like I missed an opportunity to throw a party for him because he didn't, you know, he didn't make it, you know, make it until then. So that was something that I had struggled with internally. I struggled with, you know, regret because there were things that, you know, I kind of regretted. I regretted, you know, not spending, you know, more time because time is so precious, especially when, you know, your elders are are much older. So one of the things I wanted to ask you about, because this is still heavy. I'm like, I'm still, you know, dealing with this. And, you know, some of the people close to me can tell tell you, you know, what that struggle looked like, you know, for me, because there are things, you know, that I had to take to the Lord intimately, you know, in prayer. I had to ask him why. That I had some other questions too that I not only had to accept the Lord's will, but I had to ask the God, ask God to give me peace because I was really, really struggling. But for those that are experiencing regret, is that a normal feeling? And then where does I guess regret fall within those stages, you know, of grief? And how would a a single person, whether they're grieving the loss, you know, of a parent, you know, or a grandparent or or of a spouse or whomever, someone that that they're very close with, how how do they deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 35:43

So, yeah, so regret is also part of the grief process. And if I had to lump it with any one of these, I would put it with anger. It can also go um in the depression phase. Um, but I would say primarily in the anger phase because you just have all this, it's like this rushing in of suddenly suddenly you have clarity of all the things that you could have done, should have done, would have done. And um, that can really weigh heavily on the psyche. From my own experience, I allowed myself to visit that place. And um I'm trying to describe it, like I it's like I allow myself to go to the end of every possibility in my mind. Okay, what if I had done this? What if I had done that? And I did that because I really needed to free myself. As I'm raising our daughter, I foresee a day that she'll ask me, you know, what happened to daddy? And what was your part? What were you doing? And in my mind, I had to come to terms with that potential moment to so that I can look at her and say, Mommy did everything that I could do. Or if the opposite was true, like if there was something that I discovered in that regret phase, you know, that I could have done better, that I could be honest with her and let her know, like, hey, mommy missed something, but mommy's a human being, and I hope that she'll forgive me. You know, um, so for me, that regret phase looked like as part of my anger, I was angry with myself and I had to forgive myself. So picture the morning after, after his passing, um, I got up and literally looked in the mirror and released myself from everything that I could think of, you know, that I could have done, should have done, would have done. Um, again, in just this desire to move forward, to detach myself from uh the weight of what I just walked through. This was almost a two-year journey, you know, of caring for him and um walking him through this, what I didn't know was the last years of his life. Um, and resolve coming to a point of resolve that I did everything I could. So regret for you may not look like that. Maybe it doesn't have a peaceful end. Perhaps it's that the person was calling for you and you never came, and then now they're deceased. If you have a peaceful, if you had a peaceful end with your loved one, that does not mean that you don't have to have a peaceful end. Those those two things are not um, they don't have to stay connected forever. You can still have peace in your life through the power of self-forgiveness, um, so that you can go on with your life and resolve that the person would not want you to live without peace just because you guys didn't you didn't have that moment of peace before their passing. They still want you to have peace. Oh, you asked me about singles. So for singles who are struggling in particular, um, yeah, for singles who are struggling, so I found myself single after my husband passed. And I live by certain principles. Um, one of those is I don't suffer by myself. As much as I, you know, it bruises my ego, you know, I have to swallow my pride to send a text to a friend, a sister, like my circle wouldn't let me suffer. There are people that are at my house all the time. But let's just say you don't have that kind of support where you don't have an amazing life-giving village like I did to really survive this season and come to a point of thriving again. If you find yourself alone, grieving alone, my first thing to you would be to seek resources. There are a plethora of resources in our Flint community, wherever you're listening from, seek out resources. That can look like a therapist like myself. That can look like a psychiatric nurse practitioner who can give you medication for the interim so that you can function. Some of you don't have the luxury like I did to close my practice for a month. Yeah, just so I could be and heal and fall apart and whatever I needed to do. So should your loved one pass, you got to go back to work in a week and a half, go get you some medicine in Jesus' name so that you can function, so that you can live. It's not going to stop you from hurting, it's going to help you to function. Those two things are very different. Eventually, you will heal, and you may not need the medication anymore. Consider it like a crutch or um a life jacket so that you can swim. Okay. So you may need medication, you may need therapy, you may need counseling. Phone a friend. This is a time where you need to humble yourself and say, sis, I am hurting. When they call and say, Girl, you all right? How you doing? What you find? Nothing. I don't have an appetite, I'm doing terrible, I haven't showered in three days. Be honest. This is not the time to be the superwoman. Be honest. Please show your scars to those who have shown themselves to be a safe place for you. Tell them. And then after you've shared with them what your current condition is, express it in the form of a need. Some people I found really need instruction. One of the things that I learned through my grief support group is how to help others to help me. Everybody wanted to help. And I had to help them to help me. When they were asking me what I need, I had to keep a list in my mind, in my phone. Okay, bring me some tissue today. All right, uh, bring me and willow some dinner today. And did you pick willow up from school? I can't, I can't do it. Don't have the capacity for it. Whatever the case may be, went help others to help you. Let them know what's helpful for you. Do you want to talk about your deceased loved one? Do you prefer not to talk about it right now? People are they get awkward when people are grieving. So you need to empower the village around you to support you.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

And it's so good that you, you know, you mentioned, you know, some of these things because I will definitely say, like, I can definitely second, you know, what Crystal has shared in terms of the importance of having a community because I know some of my coworkers, um, some of them are very near and dear to my heart. They sent us food. Like, you know, when like when my grandfather passed, because we weren't even thinking about food. Like my best friend, like my best friend from high school, she said, what y'all eat? Have y'all eaten anything? She said, I'm coming over to mama's house and I'm gonna bring you some potato soup. You know, other people had ordered us food, you know, what do you need? I think one of the things, you know, just as a aside, we're gonna go off just a little bit, but this will help people to know if you know someone that is grieving, especially a single, be mindful that when they're in the midst of that grieving process, especially if it's fresh, they're not eating. They're not thinking about food. I let's just be honest. So that's one of the first things that you can do to help someone is like, hey, if you haven't eaten, you know, what would you like to eat? Even if it's something small, like a salad or something to that effect. I think there's there are several different ways in which we can help. Also, too, if you know of someone that is grieving and and maybe they lost some of their close family members, you know, maybe it's you know, it's a college student or whomever, or someone that's relocated and their family is not close by, you know, if you have a good enough relationship, just go sit with them. Y'all don't have to talk about a whole lot, just go and sit with them. Let them, they will eventually open up to you and they will either cry their heart out or they'll just share something with you and you know, make you laugh. But sometimes just sitting and being present without saying a lot is enough for the moment. So if you're ever wondering how you can help someone, these are a couple of ways. Crystal, what are some other ways we can maybe help other singles that are grieving? I mean, I just listed two, and those are kind of the tip of the iceberg. But what are some other ways that we can maybe help our other fellow singles that are that are struggling with grief right now?

SPEAKER_00 43:23

You said one which I was gonna highlight, which is the ministry of presence, like the ministry of silent presence, not trying to fix it, not trying to, you know, patch it up, but literally just being there with the person. The the present, uh, the present of presence. That ministry is so profound. I remember those who cried with me. It sticks out in my mind out of all the people that I saw. I remember the ones who weren't trying to be strong around me. That stuck out in my mind. So, you know, there's something to be said for weeping with those that weep. That's a beautiful thing. When someone can you can share that experience. With them, that those tears are communicative. It's saying to them you're not alone. It's saying to them, I feel what you're feeling. Um, so I remember the friends and family members who are brave enough to express emotion around me that stuck out in my mind. So the ministry of presence, mourning with those and weeping with those that weep. And here's a crazy one ask them. Like when you when you're the grieving person, you may or may not have capacity for to answer that question, but at least it's courteous enough to say, How can I help you? What do you need right now? You mentioned the person who called you on the phone and happened to ask if you had eaten, and then shortly after showed up with food. So when you see a gap in a person's life in their world, you come to visit, and I would say be attentive. Uh pay attention. You go and you you come to their home to sit with them to bring food, and you go to the bathroom, you see that there's no toilet paper. Bring some. Like you don't have to add, hey sis, can I go get you? You saw that there's none, so go get some. Go get some tissue. Come on, tell her you see. I mean, when you open the fridge and you see like she don't have staples, but they're they're gonna be hosting guests, you know, because you this is your friend, right? You know that her aunt Bertha when she comes in town, she always stays with her. She don't got no staples in the free. Go get some staples. She don't feel like cooking, but if ain't Bertha coming, maybe she can cook. So go get some bacon, go get some eggs, go get some bread, go get some juice, get the basics, fill her refrigerator up. If her house is a mess and you know that she's about to host guests, clean the house. These are things that were happening around me. I didn't have to do a what I tell you. I didn't couldn't do anything. And I um historically have been one of the strong friends in my circle, if not the strong friend in my circle, but this was a time where the pain was so intense that I couldn't even pretend to be strong. I had to let people care for me. I had to let people love on me. And so when people come around and they want to help you, let them. So if you're one of the helpers, pay attention. If you see a gap, fill it.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Yes. Oh, that is so good. That is so, so good.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Absolutely. It sounds so deep, but it's really just basic. And you know, I'm not gonna make people feel badly because I haven't been the perfect griever. I share with you how I taught about grief previously versus how I teach about grief now. And there was a time where I would run from the grieving person because I didn't want to add pain to them. I didn't want to say the wrong thing, I didn't want to do the wrong thing. Please don't do that. Like, I'm really I may or may not write a book of the help people, help people to grieve for grief supporters. Right. Because it's uh it's such um like helping others grieve is is is like a ministry, and there's so many do's and don'ts, so many basics that could just help the average person to support someone in a grief process.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

So I guess one of the things that, and I think we kind of touched upon it, and I can at least say this personally, because I know that with grief there are physical manifestations that we see um in our body. Like we see, you know, different things happen. Like I know when the last time, you know, I lost a very close loved one, I had difficulty sleeping. And that's not my MO. That's that's not that was rather, you know, unusual. It's unusual for me to have trouble sleeping. I typically sleep very well, I sleep peacefully and so forth. So that was at least one of the things that I experienced the last time I went through the grief process. I also had to be very careful because I love food, but when I'm grieving, I won't touch it. Like I kind of have to be directed to eat, which is outside of my character. And then you mentioned the fuzziness and the fogginess, but what are some other uh physical effects that we may see that grief has on the body that I may not have mentioned or you may not have previously mentioned?

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Sure. So there's physical pain, you know, like actual body aches. Grief can be manifested in heartache, where you feel like a heaviness in your chest, it can be manifested in physical pain. Like I'm talking about back pain, neck pain, feeling stress, like all those things can be part of your grieving process. Um, extreme exhaustion. Nobody warned me about how exhausting the grief process is. Um, we talked about mental fogginess, uh loss of appetite, trouble sleeping. Those are kind of the basics that I've heard.

unknown 48:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

So I it's safe to say that we all don't grieve the same, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:52

No, definitely not. No, our grieving experience, our grief journey are it's it's very highly individual. Uh it depends so much around the circumstances of the person's passing, and it depends on um the loved one who's left behind. So, you know, there's a lot, so many nuances, so many contributing factors that affect our grief journey. And so it's it's um it's a very unique and tailored experience.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

Excuse me. So we've been talking like quite a bit about grief, and you know, the Bible deals with grief. Can you maybe share a scripture or two that possibly speaks to grief?

SPEAKER_00 49:35

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, so I have oh gosh, so one of my favorites is Psalms three and three, and it says, Um, this is more so about uh along the lines of encouragement, but here I'll use one that um that helped me to feel the presence of God nearly near to me. And it just says that he's near to the brokenhearted, and um he supports or helps those who are crushed in their spirit, and so that was a scripture that was on repeat in my mind uh during my grief journey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

What about you? So I think you touched upon one of mine, so you hit on Psalm 34, 18. That was the that that was one. The brokenhearted saves those who are crushed in spirit. Another one is a good one for me, is actually Psalm 147 and 3. He heals the brokenhearted and bandages bandages the wounds, and another one that's really there's actually I have two, I have another one. I have Psalm 145 and 18. So the Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth. And we are reminded in Hebrews, and again, I don't have the exact verse off the top of my head, but we're reminded in Hebrews that he will never leave nor forsake us. And we also need to be reminded, I believe David said this in Psalms. Um, though my mother and father um forsake me, the Lord shall lift me up.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Absolutely. Love that. Yeah, yes, indeed. The scripture has been so comforting through my grief journey, and it's been an ironic and kind of a duality of experiences because, like, I shared I was mad at God, but yet still I use the scriptures to for comfort and my devotional and prayer time because I felt much like Peter, who's like, where else am I gonna go? You know, I knew that there was nothing else in that season that would bring me true peace. And I just kind of thrust myself at him. Like, let's have a conversation, let's have tough talks, let's really grapple with this, help me to understand why this happened the way it happened. And, you know, God has been faithful to reveal as I can um reveal to me along the journey as much as I can stand, you know, as much as I have capacity to wrap my little small brain around. And realize I had to really come to a place of humility to realize that even if God sat me down and explained every nuance, every detail of what happened and why, my brain could not absorb such wisdom, such understanding. His understanding is unsearchable, right? And I had to just release uh what I had hoped for that outcome to be so that I can again move on with my life. One of the scriptures that helped me to do that is Psalms 3 and 3, and it says, For thou, O God, art a shield for me. You are my glory, and you are the lifter up of my head. I cannot tell you how many days I experienced the lifting of God through his presence, through his word, you know, through singing, through worshiping, through crying, through lamenting, all those things were lifting experiences. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Even though I have our some of these scriptures noted down there, some scriptures, if you notice, I'm taking notes as well. So I'm like noting some of these scriptures, so I can like tab them, you know, in my Bible. So, you know, we've been talking about, you know, scriptures that encourage us and some of the scriptures that we've used to, you know, sustain us during our time of grief. We not only see an epidemic of mental health, you know, that we do have a mental health crisis, I should say, you know, within the country. What I'm really concerned about, especially for those that are grieving, especially singles that that may be isolated, I'm concerned about the way that they may be coping with the grief. They may be coping in with it in a way that is unhealthy. So let's maybe talk about some of the ways that people cope with grief that's unhealthy. I'll talk about one and then we can maybe just maybe just throw these back and forth. Okay. So I see this by nature of my profession as well, um, in terms of substance abuse. I see it with substance abuse. Um, professionals that are in stressful professions, highly stressful professions, you know, where there is a lot of pressure, you do typically see more substance abuse uses usage, and when you see or when they experience either some type of loss or some type of trauma or dramatic change, that's one of the things that they lean toward or use as a crutch or coping mechanism. What else have you seen that people use to cope with grief that is unhealthy?

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Oh boy. Well, uh there's substance abuse, there's food, you know, like excess. Let's just lump this up in excess. So when there's a loss, you know, in order to fill the time that you choose to spend with that person, in order to fill the gap in your life that you feel, um, we just try to do anything. So it's excess and food, excess and travel, excess and sex, excess and anything in excess. You're you're buying too much. Like my my advice was online shopping. When I tell you I went ham with the online shopping, Amazon was getting all my little money, she in was getting all my little money. What was I doing? I was trying to fill the space that he took up in my life. It was my it was my um it was my way, but whether it was intentional, unintentional, you know, what have you, subconscious, whatever. That's that was my outlet. For some people, it could be TV binging, like let's just avoid this altogether, let's stay in my happy place, let me watch a bunch of funny stuff, or let me watch a bunch of sad stuff, whatever it is, um, to avoid dealing with the real issue. And so this whole thing is around the issue of avoidance, pornography addiction is another one. Um, and then I think maybe worst of all is isolation, where you just go recluse. And I say that that's probably the you know, out of all the things that we name, which are all, you know, they're not they're not lending to the best outcomes in terms of your grief process, isolation is probably the most detrimental because um you can cut yourself off from the support that you need to heal. And um, I've seen a lot of people cut off their nose despite their face when it comes to grief processes. It's like I'm and some sometimes well-intended. Like, I just don't want to make everybody else sad, you know. Every time they call me, I'm crying, and so I'm just gonna deal with this on my own. I'm just gonna tough it out, like maybe it'll pass, like a virus. But that never that never happens, you know, it always gets worse because you've cut yourself off from those who can actually help you to heal, and uh it just ends up kind of spiraling those times.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

So, okay, this is I'm trying to figure out how to to phrase this next yeah question because you know, I've seen you know the memes, I've seen the posts that talk about the strong friend, like check strong friends. So, what advice do you have for the strong friends that okay, that they need to take off? Of course, they need to take off the superwoman, superman, you know, cape and allow not only themselves to feel, but allow themselves to be vulnerable and feel the weakness because also too, the Bible says, where I am strong, the Lord, uh where I am strong, um, where I'm weak, the Lord is strong. Excuse me. I am just hearing it tonight, but the Lord talks about that. The Lord talks about, you know, the Lord will fill in that gap for us. I mean, Paul basically said that, you know, in his words. So, what advice do you have for like the strong, those strong friends that are currently grieving right now? Like, how do they how do they come out of that that that persona or how do they come out of that that that strength and allow themselves to be weak so the Lord can minister to them and that the Lord will allow people to minister to them?

SPEAKER_00 58:11

Here's gonna be something that may be a little difficult to hear, so take a deep breath. Okay, when you're in a grief process, you're desperate for help. And uh you may not know that, you may not recognize that, but admitting that you need help, not just um letting others help you, but inviting others to help you. So this is the part where you're going to have to humble yourself. A proud person will drown next to a boat. They will pray and pray and pray for God send me help. And then when a boat comes, there's like God, I wanted you to come and send me help. But when we pray, God sends people. I noticed that years ago, when I pray, God sends people, and um, it's important that we utilize the human resources that are around us. God has placed human resources around you and around me, and it's our job to activate those human resources to empower those human resources, like we touched on earlier, to let them know I appreciate your help. Here is how I need it. I appreciate that you're here and that you're willing to help. Let me show you the best ways to help me right now. Some days it may be I don't have it today, I don't want to answer the phone. It may be setting up a signal, like in my in my circle, it's pineapple or or I think it was a green heart, where if they text me and I don't and I just ain't got it today, I text back a green heart and they're like, uh oh, I need to show up, I need to pray extra hard, whatever it is. It could be a private signal between you and your circle. They know, you know, so that you don't have to type, I'm not okay, I'm sad, whatever. Maybe you can't do that. Put the green heart when they text you back. Set up a signal, some sort of private code that you and your friends know, like she's not okay today. She needs a little extra love, a little extra prayer, whatever the case may be. So letting people help you, inviting people to help you, and then accepting the help. Letting people help you, inviting people to help you, and accepting the help, acknowledging that I in this state cannot do it on my own, not effectively, I'm unable, I need time to just fall apart, to let my heart heal, to grapple with this grief process. I'm not okay, and I need other people right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

That's so good. That's so good. So letting people help you, inviting people to help you, accepting the help, and acknowledging that people are here to help you. Like this is just like this is so so good. I mean, it sounds, it's it's so it's so basic, but it's interesting how we as humans, as mankind, because of pride, let's let's also throw that out there, because of pride, a sense of pride, you know, we're initially rejecting the help, that very present help that God is sending us in our time of trouble.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Come on. Yes. It's so weird. Like sometimes people have a well, like I had for a long time, what I call a fear of need. I didn't want to be the needy one. I had I had uh embraced that strong friend identity for such a long time that I'm like, oh gosh, if I'm the needy one, maybe I'm the weakest link in my circle. Maybe I maybe my friends won't tolerate or they won't be able to sustain me for a long period of time because I'm the one that's usually giving. I'm the one showing up for everybody else, and now I don't have it. So thankfully, my experience with my sister circle has been actually they can hold me up for several seasons. Uh, I've and we've invested so much relationally that I have some, I got some equity in our friendships where I can endure a season where I don't got it. I want to I want to be invited, but I'm not gonna show up. And everybody knows why. And that's okay. And they're loving me through that season into my next season as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

So and I think it's important, yeah. I think you mentioned something that's really important, you know, with your sister circle is that um not only the not only the balance, but also the importance of yoking, being equal, being equally yoked. I think we limit that scripture to romantic relationships, but that extends beyond romantic relationships. That includes our platonic relationships, you know, our friendships, and even our business relationships. And that is why it's so, you know, important that you have the barnabuses, you know, in your corner. You know, you you have people that understand not only what it's like to go through grief, but can extend you the same comfort and consolation that the Lord has extended them in their season, and then they can reciprocate the same to you. It is so, so, so important, especially for those strong friends. Like those strong friends, like you you gotta put that that sense of self, that sense of pride aside, and allow again, I think we really miss out. Let's just let's just put this on the table. I really think for us that wear the labels as strong friends, I feel like there are times we really miss out on the opportunities where the guy where God can heal us and where God can minister to us because we're so used to helping everyone else that we don't recognize that we need help ourselves, like you just said a few moments ago. We need to accept the help. It is okay to have a moment of weakness. That's where the Lord's strength will come in. That's where the Lord, the rams in the bush, that's where um those apples of gold that the Bible talks about, you know, the words that are spoken in season are like fit apples of gold. That's what we need. And if we are either A, isolating ourselves, or if we're putting up this facade, if we're allowing pride to lead us, we're allowing the flesh to lead us, and and just saying, I don't need anything, let me go do this, do this, do this, this, and this, it's problematic. It's hurting us.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:09

Absolutely. Yeah, I would also add to that. Um, it's coming to mind something else that I did to empower my sister's circle and my village is that I let them know, uh, hey, I'm looking okay. Like if you were to look at me, because I'm just never gonna like I'm not one that you're gonna catch me falling on the streets. I'm just not that girl. You know, other people may be like that, but like when I left my house, I was poised. Literally. I remember going to purchase things between the time of my husband's passing and between his service, um, up until his service, and people were asking me, like, like they would literally stop, are you okay? Like, I can't believe you're out here buying tissue or like I didn't think I was gonna see you out in the I'm like, Well, what did you think I was gonna do? People said the darnest thing. They're like, I didn't expect you to see, I didn't expect to see you out. Like, well, I need a tissue, so here I am, you know. But I I empowered my sister circle to tell them, like, look, I may look okay. You know me, you know that I'm not, I'm not one that's gonna freak out a lot. Um, you know, by way of my profession, you see people die all the time, you see people sick all the time. Um, you can't lose it. Like, you you gotta kind of have some level of poise in this profession. But please know I'm not okay. Like, you may see me functioning, you may see me like my house is clean, my kid is good, but like I'm letting you know the crystal that you knew, she's not coming back. She's been completely changed by this experience, and you need to know that. And I'm hoping I've had to have really clear communication with them throughout this journey to let them know uh all of the internal changes that I've experienced as I'm experiencing them. I'm educating those around me to know that crystal is gone. That phase of my life is gone. The way that you interacted with me, then that's gone. This is such a life changing. Experience for me that I'm never going to be the same. And I'm hoping that you can learn to love the new version of me. So I've empowered them and let them know, like, hey, there are many days, many moments that you'll see me at your kid's birthday party or whatever, and I'm cutting the cake and whatever. But no, inside I'm not okay. So let's just settle that so that people don't look at the external and think that because you're continuing on with your life, then somehow, oh, she's good. Oh, thank God, we can just go back to normal. No, normal is gone. That that old normal is gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:29

Wow. Wow. So it's interesting, and I I don't want to delve too much into depression, but I kind of have a twofold question for you. So um, do grief and depression go hand in hand? Is there a difference? But my other question is so is there such a thing as like functional grief as there is functional depression?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Uh so okay, answer both your questions. Well, grief and depression can go hand in hand, but they're very different experiences. So, as we described, grief is a normal and a natural process. Depression is um a diagnosis. That's that is uh a grouping of symptoms, like it can for a lot of people be a chronic illness. So those are two very different things. A person who is grieving is expected to go through, matriculate through the stages of grief, come to a point of acceptance, and then you know, and then go on with their life. Whereas depression can be chronic, it can be a lifetime, and it often is for a lot of people. So depression is a more pervasive and disabling experience, and so it's very different from grief. Hope that helps to draw a line of demarcation between the two.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

Yes, that definitely helps. What was the second question you asked me? Um, so I've heard these terms used loosely, so they're like functional depression. So I've I've heard people use that term. Is there also a term? Is there such a thing as functional grief?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

So when I think about functional depression, that's like my high performers. That's my they're not always executives, they're not always bosses or CEOs, but a lot of times they are. Sometimes they're moms, sometimes they're widows, sometimes they're dads, who just learn to put on the face. They learn to do whatever is necessary to keep going, but inside they're really broken and they're not doing well emotionally, they're just performing externally. That's the difference there. So they're not doing well internally and emotionally, but they're performing externally. So if you're to watch them, like I was just describing to my friends to you about how I empower my friends, the reason why I was explaining that to them so thoroughly is it was to invite their inspection for them to like to ask me more poignant questions. Like, okay, I may be showing up outside, I may be winning cases, attorney Mary Boney, I may be seeing my clients, I'm gonna be back to work, you know. But I need you to know that I need a call every week, I need a text message every week. I need you to know I'm not okay. I'm not gonna tell everybody this information, but I'm telling you because you're my friend, and I want you to know. Like one of the best descriptions that my friend gave me, she's like, You're like a duck that that's on top of the water. So on top of the water from the from those little feet up, he's like, Cool as a fan. You can't see that underneath the water his little feet are just swimming, swimming, swimming, like paddling like a duck. You can't see that. She's like, You're like that duck. And I'm like, that's exactly right. A lot of high functioners are like that duck on the top, on the surf from the surface. You can you can see, oh my, look at that little duck. They're just they're just gliding across the water. Look at them gliding. You have no idea. You have no idea the effort that it is taking them to live, to exist, to function, to get back to a safe a place of thriving. You have no idea the effort underneath the surface that it's taken for that person to show up and to say, Hey, good morning. This is Crystal Speaks Life. Hello, this is attorney Mary. I got that case ready right here. You have no idea. And so please, please check on your strong friend. They're like that. Please. You'd have read me like a book. That was such a good analogy. My friend told me that. I said, excuse me, don't act like you know me.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

I know just call you out.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:34

Yeah, that's real life.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:36

That it really is, and that that's the importance of again, that's the importance of having good true friends. You know, those friends that you know the Bible talks about, uh, a friend that's uh like a brother, you know, that's born for adversity, you know, and then there's friends that are close to you like a brother in this instance, there are friends that are close to you like a sister. You know, you have you have those sister friends, that they are so important because you just never know when you need to lean on them, and I thank God for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

So I have a few more questions for you. So, what are some healthy and natural ways uh for us to maintain our bodies and our temples as singles while we are craving? Like, what can we do to take care of ourselves?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:24

Yeah, this is a really good question because when you're in the throes of an active grief process, you don't want to do anything. Like you experience some level of apathy for a lot of people to varying degree, and you really want to um make sure that you eat well. Number one, that you eat. And then when you eat, you want to make sure that you eat well. Uh it may be so your appetite loss may be so severe, like mine was that I had to set a timer or I had to keep people around me that were like, hey, eat, and they wouldn't take no for an answer. I lost like 20 pounds, you know, just no appetite. And um, you want to eat, and when you do eat, you want to eat well. Number two, you want to sleep. So you may need to see somebody like myself or take you some energy or something to where you can sleep because that sleep support is foundational. Good rest is foundational to it, takes so much energy. Remember, we were talking about that exhaustion earlier, it takes so much energy to go through the grief process. If you add sleep disturbance on top of that, you're gonna be in a world of trouble. So you want to eat, you want to eat well, meaning we're not just eating comfort foods, you want to eat balanced meals, we want to sleep, and we want to live life. Now that's the last thing you want to do a lot of times when you're in a grief process. But for when I say live life, when you're in the throes of grief, that may mean take a shower. That may mean go to the grocery store. That doesn't mean that you're writing at a New York Times bestseller. That may mean if you have to go back to work, get through the workday. That may mean you know, it could be something small, but you have to be take intentional steps forward. Take intentional steps forward. The idea here is not to get stuck. The idea is not to stagnate, it's to be an active participant in your grief process. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

So something, you know, I you know want to share personally, because I had alluded to this, you know, earlier that you know, my appetite decreases when I'm in the midst of grief. So, you know, those general reminders to eat are very helpful. And then also, too, I think what some singles struggle with, because again, the not eating is not intentional, but there's so much planning and forethought that actually goes to planning a funeral. I had not had to assist someone with planning a funeral. I think it had maybe been about maybe it'd been a couple years because I had helped my cousin with my you know great aunt's funeral. And that was like the first time, you know, actually as an adult where I saw what all went into it. So when my mom and I were planning my grandfather's funeral, it seems like we were constantly running around. We had to go do this, this, this, this, and this. There's just so many things you have to do on your to-do list. So naturally, you're not going to think about eating, and then you're constantly tiring because yes, you are getting a lot of calls, you know, as well, you know, while you're trying to make arrangements. So, how do you balance all of that? Let's just put that on the table because I think that's something that is not talked about, that as a single, and you, if you have to basically work on the arrangements, prepare the arrangements, you know, make those not only make those phone calls, um, make the arrangements, you know, with the funeral home, with the cemetery, let's just call it like it is, it can be very overwhelming. What advice do you have to a single that's overwhelmed with that? Because I'm glad that I I was able to walk my mom through this process. I think that helped her from being so overwhelmed in addition to dealing with the grief. I think we were able to minister to each other, which was very helpful. But I'm gonna stop chattering about allow you to give us some advice.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Oh my gosh. Yeah, some advice on that. So probably sound like a broken record, but everybody may or may not have the massive village that I had to step in and literally take over my life. But if you can have one friend or two friends that you can share those responsibilities with a coworker, a neighbor, a past, somebody. Uh, I think sometimes the tendency of a single is to live like a single, to think like a single. It's it's a do it's a two-edged sword. You know, it makes you very strong, independent-minded, but at the same time, it can be I it can go borderline into isolating. So this is a time to come out of your shell as a single, to reach out. Um, there's no reason why a single should not have friends. You know, you should be a single person, but also connected. So an individual, but also connected to the life, you know, to life and people around you. And so, community, a single person within community. So, this is a time to call your community. It's like a call to action. Hey, these are all the things that I have on my plate. Who can take what? Let's delegate, let's see what can be done. What are the things that only you can do? Focus on those things, and if at all possible, you want to delegate the rest.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:34

Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna throw I'm gonna throw a little wrench in all of this. I'm gonna throw a little wrench.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:38

Yes, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:39

I gotta do this. So there it sounds like from what you just said that there um I don't want to say an onus, but there there needs to be some initiative taken by the person that is grieving. But what if you what if you are a single that doesn't really call anybody? And it's it's not and it's not intentional, but it's just you're more of like, you know, you like to see people in person and you're not really a person that talks on the phone. But when you're going through the midst of that, I mean I guess what do you do if you don't necessarily like talking on the phone, but you still need to be connected with the community and you're dealing with something like this. What what do you do? What do you tell that single that's kind of reclusive, but not?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:24

Sure. Yeah. So I mean, if you're like, okay, I don't really like to chatter over the phone, but you're not averse to community, I would recommend joining a grief support group. The the um phrase that came to my mind when you were talking was like like amongst like. So when I did my grief support group, I was the youngest in my group, um, but we were all connected by the same cord, and that was grief. And so you may join a grief support group, and you're the only single there, or whatever the case may be, but everybody there is connected by the same cord. And so that's an opportunity for community where you all are speaking the same language. Grief is a language all its own. And when you look around the room and there's just a bunch of nodding heads, and everybody's compassionate and everybody understands, and everybody's going, me too, me too, that happened to me too. It's such a sense of peace, such a uh a comforting experience to have that, to have a safe space to share about your loved one, to support others in their journey. That mutual exchange can be a safe harbor when you're grieving. So you won't feel so isolated if you are intentional to connect during that grief journey. Doesn't have to be yapping on the phone, doesn't have to be girl, let's go to lunch, because you may not have the capacity for that. So my grief group was one day a week for two hours, two hours, uh two hours on a Wednesday every week for 16 weeks. And that was the date that I set with myself. That was the date that I set with to face my grief intentionally because life happens for all of us. So there's the grief event, the person's passing, but then life goes on. You still gotta, you know, raise your kids and do your job and whatever, come participate in church and all the other things that you have going on. And if you don't um intentionally and engage with your grief, become an active participant in your grief process, you'll find yourself years down the line, you're like, Oh man, I never processed that. And now you've got to you've got to backtrack to deal with something that you could have dealt with all along. Was that more helpful?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:25

Yes, that was definitely helpful. Thank you. So I know we have about 10 or 11 more minutes or so. So before we do our wrap-up, I was wondering if you could maybe give some tips, you know, to our audience. So let's break these tips down by subcategories. So, for example, what are some tips you'd have for singles that have recently became widows?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:55

Oh, so I you can tell by how I talk about community that that's my jam, right? And I know some people are some people are more averse to community, or I don't even know how to describe it. Just they are more um recluse in their nature. I know some people who are just they're not even anti-community, they're just more recluse. They're like, yeah, I'm good. Like I kind of like myself, my own space, my own company, whatever. I would say when it comes to experiences like grief, widowhood, um, even in scripture, you see widows with widows, right? So, like this is a normal occurrence for for us to link up together for the sake of survival, for the sake of healing, for the sake of thriving again. You don't have to hang out with everybody, but everybody should have somebody, a safe space where you can be honest, transparent, authentic about your life experience without fear of judgment and with the expectation that your interaction with that person is going to be helpful and not harmful. That's just basic one-on-one. So connect with somebody. I would recommend a widow group. I joined a widow support group. I joined some of them on Facebook where I could just go and we could say things that nobody else would understand. We could crack jokes that everybody, other people would clutch their pearls at, you know, whatever the case may be. And that was all refreshing because we all speak the same language, nobody judges, everybody understands. So I call it squat up. You want to squat up. Who is your squad? If it's if you got a small squad, you're just like, I got my one hit a quitter. You want to squat up. You got your one hitter quitter, that's your ride or die. You like, I don't look, all I need is that one, that's fine. Or if you like me and I'm more communal, I have a sister circle of like eight to ten ladies, not excluding my biological sister, that at any given time I could call any one of them and ask for whatever I needed, and vice versa. And so uh I would say some tips would be to squat up, um, to make a connection, um, to really take care of yourself. I would say to take some time to discover yourself again. When you're no longer a wife and you have played that role, sometimes the role can be morphed into an identity. What do I mean by that? So uh motherhood is a role, being an attorney is a role, being a nurse is a role. Those are all roles that be that we play. But sometimes if we're not careful, that role over time becomes an identity. So when you're no longer a wife, you feel somehow less than. There's uh, and that's not true for everybody, but that's true for a lot of people, that you can feel like, oh my gosh, what is my place in life? What is my purpose in life? Have I lost my sense of self? Um, and so you want to take a season or two to discover yourself. Who am I? What do I like outside of the person? I remember when my husband passed, like, and I had to go to the grocery store. I couldn't, I couldn't grocery shop because I'm like, all my grocery shopping was around what is he like, you know, what am I gonna cook for him? Uh I had a hard time shopping for clothes because I dressed, you know, what does he like to see me in? How does he like my hair? All that comes with um the role that you play as a wife. And I had to take a season. Thankfully, I had the mindset um that I did not lose myself in my marriage. I still maintain my sense of self. I knew um, I knew, you know, that the core of Crystal was still intact. But there's a lot of things that I became, and that's not a negative thing. We know when you when the two become one, you know, there's a merging of life and all the things. So I had to really um rediscover myself after I became a widow. So I would highly recommend that you do that and that you learn that you intentionally face forward to live life in a new way as a single and as a widow.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:39

Okay, I'm gonna narrow. I just have a couple more questions, so I'll narrow some of them now. So, what type of tips would you what type of tips do you have for singles that now find themselves as single parents?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:54

I'm just telling all my little story tonight, so this is awesome. This is all this is my story. This is my song. This is my story. Yeah, this is my story, and so I have leaned so heavily on my village. Like, I I mean, I I don't say this lightly that when I can call someone and say, Go get willow, I can't make it. My last patient's running over. I called them to say go get willow. You know, I can't like I just need to sleep today. I'm so exhausted. Like we everybody needs somebody. There's no like you cannot be an isolated single parent. You're going to need people to help you care for your baby. You know that old adage that it takes a village, it takes a village. So that's my church family. Yes, that's my church family. Those are my close friends, those are my family members, people that are trusted, that I know not touching her, that's not looking at her, that's not doing wrong. They're they're loving, they're an extension of my hands and my heart towards my baby. Those are the people that I trust. Um, and so because of that, that has allowed me some space to explore, to get my legs and my legs underneath me in this new single space. Um, it has been invaluable, the role that they have played in my life. That would be the first thing. The other thing is to give yourself grace. Like I tell on myself, so you don't think I'm talking about you? The times that I have that, you know, y'all like, oh, this is crystal. Crystal speaks life and the mental health expert, honey. When the child is getting on your nerve and you don't have anybody anymore to, you know, hey babe, can you take your daughter when that's gone and you're tired and you've been working all day and the child is falling out, whatever. I have lost it a few times with Little Miss Willow. So you want to give yourself grace. I'm so glad nobody was following me around with a camera. You gotta give yourself grace because I'm a human being and this is real life. This is not a fairy tale.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:07

No, it is not. Like, let's just keep it real. Because let me tell you something. Like when you like when you're grief, it it not only like changes you, but I'm telling you, it will test your patience.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:19

Oh test your patience. What not to say to a person who is grieving? You just want to, I mean, thank God I have the Holy Ghost. But if I didn't, some people would be jacked up to this day, man, the things that people have said, and it's just like, wow, I want, and then you didn't even catch that coming out of your mouth. That's the sad part. That's why I feel it's so important.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:44

Seriously, like people want to people want to really test you and like, do you I am saved? Do you know what's keeping me right now? You need to say the Lord, what's keeping me from me laying my hands on you?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:55

Listen, you better be glad because I mean it's happened many times. I just have to look astounded. And I've had to uh have really kind of formulate some sound bites to help me through this experience because people very well intended. I I don't believe anybody that said anything to me has been ill ill intent or malicious intent. Well, one of the things one of the things I one of the things I have said uh as a response to some of the ignorant commentary that I've received is I hope you never understand. Like, you know what? Thank you for saying that, but I hope you never understand. I know that you have your own thoughts and opinions about how I should be handling or matching my Greek prize process. I know that you're mad that I'm about to get married again in a month. I know that you're mad that I found, you know, that I'm going on with my life. I know that that upsets you, that ruffles your feathers, but I hope you never understand. I hope you never have to walk in my shoes to have my experience. I hope that you never understand. And I mean that for myself. I mean that for my soul. I hope you never understand.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:54

I'm glad this is recorded because I look, you need to use that because it's maybe that's the situation. But seriously, this is an instance where because I I really there are some people that say things and it may be from a well-intentioned place, but there's other folks that's just okay, let's just call it what it's out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:13

How about that?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:15

How about so what's really what's really going on? What's really in your heart?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:20

It's not what you put in you, but what comes out of you that defiles you. So what is really happening? What are you meditating on? Because makes you wonderful what it is? Because that's that's kind of scary to me. The fact that you are not the fact that you have no filter and you're allowing that to utter that from your lips is very concerning to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:43

It's very concerning. Absolutely. One of the things I prayed, I went for a walk at my husband passed around eight-ish or so, and at midnight I found myself walking outside, going for a little brisk walk in the middle of December. And one of the things I prayed, that I don't know if I've ever prayed in this way, um, was Lord, reveal hearts around me. Somehow I knew that this significant life change was going to shake up my relational circle. Somehow I knew that uh maybe it was intuitively, maybe it was by way of Holy Spirit that um my relationships would never be the same. And God has been faithful to do that. He has shown me um differences, you know, in in how people treat me now that I am, you know, as a widow. It was almost immediate. Sometimes people's postures changed around me, the way they interacted with me. I did not recognize the extension of the covering that I had experienced for all those 20 plus years uh through my late husband, and people started acting, as they say, brand new.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:41

Yeah, brand new. Why are you acting brand new?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:45

And so I would I would add that to my list of uh tips and tricks for a widow is to really pay attention, to watch and pray. You want to see and notice those relational changes, those who are treating you differently because you are a widow and not in a good way. You want to be um careful about the company that you keep because your covering is gone. We know biblically that when we are married to a man of God, that is a spiritual covering, that is often a physical covering. And I have had very strange experiences with the opposite sex, with clergy members, with parishioners, um, because that covering is gone. And so it took my therapist, um, a male, to explain to me, hey, you're gonna have to move differently. Like, okay, when certain things are over with and you go to certain engagements, if you're not about that life and you're not trying to flirt and date, when from the time they say dismiss, you need to hit the door. Like you need to interact with the opposite sex differently if you're not trying to send certain messages. And so you really have to be careful, not paranoid, but careful about the company you keep, how you move through life.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:03

Because doesn't the Bible say, if I'm not mistaken, I want to say it's in it might be first Corinthians, is it 15 and 33?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:10

Um corrupt communications, evil communication, corrupts that matters. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:22

I'm sorry, and and and that's also interesting that you mentioned, you know, to be mindful of the company that you keep and you know, just pay attention to how people treat you. I think, wouldn't it be prudent to also ask the Lord to strengthen uh singles, especially those singles, well, all singles, not just widows, but all singles, but ask God to really strengthen them in the gift of discerning spirits. Would it would it be prudent? And would it also be prudent for singles to ask God? Because this is one of the questions, this is one of the things I do pray about quite a bit when I'm in different environments and different atmospheres, whether it's at court, whether it's in the office, um, or or wherever, wherever the setting is, one of the things that I asked the Lord, I said, Lord, reveal the hearts of the people. What is in this atmosphere? What do I, what am I fighting? What do I need to fight against? You know, I I need to understand exactly what is in this atmosphere and what is what are on the hearts of the men and women in this particular place. So, would it also be uh diligent or prudent for singles to ask for that um strengthening, at least in that gift, or at least strengthening in terms of um being more sensitive to the Holy Spirit when He's giving warning signs about this particular person and their motives and how they're moving?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:44

Absolutely, yeah. So that discernment uh is two-edged, you know. So I'm always leery of a person who can only discern a battery. So it's also, you know, it's showing revealing of motives, you know, like you said, about what's going on in this atmosphere, because we don't wrestle flesh and blood and we don't wrestle it the same ways, right? So if we're in a spiritual battle, we have to use spiritual weaponry. And one of those weapon uh weapons, spiritual weapons, is very strong discernment to hear what's not being said, to read what's not being written, to read between the lines. Uh, the person's mouth can be talking, but you're hearing what's actually going on in the in the intent of the heart, and that's a gift. It's both a gift and a spiritual skill set that can be exercised by time. And then uh once you get that discernment of not just the bad trees, but the good trees, because like we talked about how you know, village, how people step up, the storms reveal strength. So there are people who stepped up in my storm that they were more distant friends, but then when the storm came, they drew closer. And then there were others who were closer friends, and when the storm came, they retreated. So you have to pay attention to those things. Not we're not labeling people as good or bad. We're seeing, okay, who can I trust in a storm? You're just gathering data. And then once you gather the data, you uh my next prayer was give me the courage to act accordingly. Don't let me see it and then behave like I'm ignorant of it. Now that I see it, let me be responsible to what you showed and revealed to me. So uh one of the things I um that I use as an analogy is that the strength of a snake is its secrecy. So when a snake is in the grass, right, that's when it's most strong. But once a snake has revealed itself and says, I am a snake, it showed it showed you its nature, it loses its strength. Now you can see it for what it really is. And then once you see a snake as a snake, now it's on you, boo-boo, to interact with this interact with that snake as such. You cannot claim ignorance anymore because that thing has revealed itself. And so now you have to be responsible to reposition people in your life um accordingly and act accordingly. So act pray for the courage after you get the discernment, pray for the courage to act accordingly.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:00

Oh, yes, yes. I love that. That's that's just so good. That is just so good. Um I know we have to wrap up because we're it's it's after 8:30, but do you happen to have any secondary resources? So any particular books you would recommend to our viewers if they're currently experiencing grief, you know, maybe it's a book or two that you read, you know, during your grieving process, or maybe um a book or two that someone might have recommended to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:29

Wow. Now look, of course, that would be ready, but so first of all, the Bible.

unknown 1:35:36

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:37

Let's start there. That's our foundation. Right. I'm Googling. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:47

While you're Googling, I was told that um I haven't read it yet, but I did purchase this book for someone. But someone in my at my doctor's office recommended this to me. It's okay to not be okay. I can't remember the author's last name, but I heard good things about it. I'll have to Google it. Megan Devine. Yes, Megan Divine. Yes, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:09

Absolutely. There's one grieving God's way. Uh Timothy Keller, waiting walking with God through pain and suffering. That's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. I have to send you one more that's on my list. And maybe you can tag it in the comments when we're done because it really blessed me.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:39

Yes, we can do that. I'll definitely do that. You'll send that to me a little later. So, Crystal, I have just oh my goodness, I just totally love this discussion. I just hate that we have to we have to stop. I mean, I I just feel like we can continue talking for like hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:55

Like I just I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:57

I just love it because this was just so you know, so good. And I know we we got to most of my questions. There were a few that I didn't get to. So um the first thing I wanted to ask you is so if any of our viewers want to connect with you um in terms of mental health services, how can they contact you?

SPEAKER_00 1:37:16

Yeah, we will be delighted. Uh, Sound Mind Health Services. Sound Mind Health Services. Uh it's w dot soundmindhealth services.com. If you go to our website, you will see a new patient intake form. That is everybody's first step in receiving patient care from us. We provide caring, compassionate, and confidential. Anybody gonna know your business chat? Confidential care with a Christian backbone. Everything that we do is infused with faith. We are faith forward, we are not faith-forced. So we see people from every community, from every background, every walk of life. You better believe we're gonna love you with the love of God. You're gonna feel that, you're gonna sense that, you're gonna receive caring and competent care. So that's www.soundmindhealth services.com, or you can call or text 810-214-2881. And my admin staff will be delighted to serve you.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:19

Yes. And then my next question for you is so if any of our viewers want to connect with you on social media, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:30

All right, you can find me on Facebook and Instagram. Uh Sound Mind Health Services on both of those pages, and Crystal Speaks Live on Facebook and Instagram. You can also go to my YouTube channel, Crystal Speaks Live.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:47

Yes, I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. So we have a little ticker growing across the bottom with some of your info. I wanted to make sure that we put that out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:59

Um thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:02

You are more than welcome. So I have just been so delighted. This has been such a wonderful, wonderful discussion. I like I said, we could just keep going if you know if we could. But you know, we both have to do this thing called adulting and you know our responsibilities. So I definitely want to thank you, you know, for your time. I want to thank you for being a special guest on the singles oasis. I know that our viewers are walking with away with a plethora of information, resources, and some of the tools, you know, that they need. I'm gonna throw a click plug out here for myself. So, in terms of the singles oasis, you know, if you want any updates about the podcast, you know, when we're gonna invite Crystal back. I'll get to that in a moment. Um, but if we're talking about other topics, please follow me at substack.com forward slash at Mary Bowen, or you can follow me on Facebook, look for my professional page, Mary Bowen. You can look for me in those two places. I also have a YouTube page as well. I believe that's Miss Mary B30, if I'm not mistaken, or it's Miss Mary B. I will let y'all know a little bit later. I cannot remember the name. So don't judge me. Look, we listen. But again, follow me on Substack, so Substack.com forward slash at Mary Bowen. Um, M-A-R-Y-B-L-W-E-N, and you can follow me on Facebook at Mary Bowen uh as well. So I believe this concludes our segment. I want to thank our audience for tuning in. And again, I want to I want to thank Crystal again for joining us tonight. And Crystal, would you like to come back and maybe do another mental health segment specifically focusing on trauma, maybe a little later in the season if you're open to it?

SPEAKER_00 1:40:54

Absolutely. Oh, yes, I believe. I'll be thrilled. Thrilled. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:59

We definitely, we definitely want to bring you back because I feel like you know there's more that we can cover on this topic. But I also feel that the Lord knows that you have something to share about trauma, and I would definitely love to have a conversation with you about trauma-based, or I would say trauma-informed counseling as well. I know that's something that I have heard kind of um discussed within the legal community, especially those that are work as prosecutors and especially those that serve as victim advocates, you know, as well. That's something that um has been talked about kind of quite a bit. And I know some of my colleagues have actually written articles about it. So I would love to have that conversation with you and just talk about the different manifestations of trauma, and we can talk about some of the books and things that you know that we've read as well. But again, but this has been so much fun. I'm like, I've just been so excited. So again, I you just don't know my heart has been so warm, and I know that our our followers of the the podcast, the Singles Oasis, have been so delighted that you were able to share your time with us. So again, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. So I'm gonna go ahead and end the recording now. So, to our uh viewers, just know that we're gonna share this on our platforms. I'm not exactly sure if this stream is live or not, but nonetheless, we both will have the recording. So I'm gonna share this on my personal page. I'll share this on my Mary Bowen page. I know Crystal's gonna share it on her um Crystal Speaks Live pages, on her YouTube pages, her Facebook pages. Uh, I believe she also has an Instagram and she's probably gonna share it on her Sound Mind Health Services as well. So be on the lookout for we're gonna probably post it maybe, maybe tonight or sometime tomorrow. But again, thank you all for viewing. We appreciate you, and again, Crystal, we appreciate you as well. So thank you, Mary. Bye y'all, thank you, bye y'all.