The Year Everything Fell Apart (And What It Taught Us)

Where did the Abundance in Business Method™ come from?

In this episode, Mike and Lisa share the real story behind the framework that now underpins all of their work with family businesses and business partnerships. The story begins during a period when things weren't working — not just in business, but in their relationship too. 

Together, they explore:

•  Why they thought they had a business problem when the real issue was much deeper 
•  The conversation that changed everything 
•  How they discovered they wanted the same destination but had different ideas about how to get there 
•  The origins of the ME, US and BUSINESS framework 
•  Why healthy people and healthy partnerships create healthy businesses 
•  The story of three business partners who found themselves facing similar challenges 
•  How the Abundance in Business Scorecard helps uncover where pressure is really coming from 

If you've ever felt like your business is becoming harder than it should be, this episode will help you understand why.

Because sometimes the problem isn't the business.

Sometimes it's what's happening underneath it.

Calm within. Aligned together. Profitable in a way that supports life.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to the Sunday Lunch podcast. I'm Mike Overwater, and I'm here with my partner in life and business, Lisa Clausen. We've spent most of our lives around family businesses. We've grown up in them, worked in them, led them, and at times we've even survived them. What we've learned is that family business is one of the most rewarding things you can be part of, but it can also be one of the most challenging because business and relationships are so closely connected.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

And that's really what this podcast is about. It's not about having all the answers or pretending we've got everything figured out. It's about having honest conversations about what really happens when family, business, and relationships intersect. We'll share stories from our own lives, lessons we've learned the hard way, conversations we're having with clients, and ideas that might help you create shifts within your business. So you have more calm, more alignment, and more enjoyment in both your business and your relationships. So whether you're in business with your partner, your family, or people you've known for years, we're really glad you're here. So let's get into today's conversation. Today we want to tell you the story behind our work. It's not the polished version or anything that you'd really put on a website, it's the real version because people ask us often where the abundance in business method, which is what underpins all our work with family businesses, comes from. And the truth is it didn't start with a framework. It started from a place where things weren't working for us. That's right. And it was actually back in 2020 in um in those glorious um COVID times, and we were actually in lockdown. And I can remember specifically a day out on a walk, and for us here, it was um it was March time, and I don't know if it was the beginning of lockdown when we had the conversations around this, but probably a few weeks in. But it was a really beautiful sunny day, and we were out on you know one of our allowed walks, and um we started to have a conversation about what it was that we were doing, and before we knew it, there was sort of heaps of friction between us, and and then it felt like we just couldn't couldn't even talk to each other. Um remember exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

I can't remember the other details, but certainly it it seemed that because we were, you know, and it might be a lot same with other people, that um you know, when you're isolated and you can be isolated in your room for moments, or you can be isolated like we were in lockdown, um, a lot of noise goes away. So you sit with yourself more and you're thinking about things more and you know, and you're reflecting more. And quite often when all that the noise of the outside world, because you didn't have all that distractions coming in, you know, you weren't bombarded with people contacting you wanting to catch up or deal with issues and all that sort of stuff, because we're pretty much, you know, alone with ourselves and we were uh yeah working to get that business going.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

And um that's a very good point. Because yeah, we have so we have five um five kids. We had a we have a beautiful blended family, and at that time the three older kids were all doing their individual things, and so we're in different places, but the two younger girls um, you know, were with us. So apart from doing that parenting and and our work, um, and there were lots of different things we were doing as well at that time, yeah. Like Mike says, it was really, you know, very um kind of a very sort of insular kind of time, you know, and just us to be able to either do family kind of things or yeah, have those deeper thoughts, which clearly we'd both been having because then we kind of all came to air just one day, didn't it? And came spilling out. Um, and we found ourselves in two really different places about what it was we thought we were actually doing in our business.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Yeah, absolutely. And um, I was um I guess looking at the you know, I guess the the strategy and the process and yeah, you know, lots of stuff and um yeah, it was um the the pressure was the pressure was mounting, I guess, in terms of our interactions with us you know, with each other and seeing where we were heading and um you know what exactly we were doing and um I guess the only really uh bright side to everything at at that time was we were um we were locked in it over at the beach, which was um which was which was a blessing. And the weather was beautiful, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

It was, but but I think that yeah, what we're talking about really is the is the pressure and the way that that pressure, when it's not dealt with, can actually manifest itself. And I think that's what we were dealing with. And that was the beginning though of us moving towards a solution. And so that was actually some of the the background. I think you can probably hear I was you know, I was feeling that all again, Mike and reliving it. And I think you know, if you're listening, you probably can feel the the heaviness, um, and it was a really difficult time. And of course, then we didn't have anybody else to distract us from that either. So, one, you know, we'd now surface this stuff and we had better do something about it because we didn't have anything else apart from the girls, you know, who didn't know what was happening for us at that time to process anything with. So we kind of had to make our way through it all. So if you're listening and thinking this sounds familiar, then you're exactly why we're sharing this. Because when we were going through the pain in our business, we genuinely thought we were the only people struggling like this, didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

And what we've learned since is that almost every family business, every couple in business and every partnership experiences some version of these challenges, but the details might be different. The patterns are definitely remarkably similar. We have seen this across the time of working with family businesses. And look, there was a period, I think, around all of that. And after lockdown, and then coming back to you know, to our home, um, where I generally didn't know, you know, whether or not we'd make it as a couple, as business partners, and maybe not as friends. There was so much that had come up. And some of that stuff wasn't even relating, you know, to the business, but it had opened, you know, a real can of worms. But the interesting thing was there wasn't really one, you know, one big event. Um, that was a single moment where things changed for us, but it was because of lots of those little pressures that were piling up over time, wasn't it? Business pressure, financial pressure, family pressure, COVID pressure, you know, expectations, responsibilities, and trying to support other people. And that, of course, is the crux of all of our work, and trying to build something really meaningful, trying to be everything to everyone. And eventually it just all started adding weight, I think. And when I think about it, you know, there's an analogy that you've probably heard before. It's like carrying a backpack. You know, at first it's manageable, and then someone hands you a rock and then another rock and another rock, and eventually, you know, it gets heavier and heavier, and you're just exhausted and wondering why everything just feels so hard.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, right. I think we've all been there and I and understand that. And I think one of the things we both did uh was respond to that pressure really differently. Uh when things got difficult, um, I tended to retreat, you know, the uh the old man in the cave type thing. Um I'd go into deep think mode. Um, look at process, I'd work harder, you know, and just try and solve the problem that we were faced with. I was convinced there had to be an answer somewhere. Um if I just thought about it long enough. So looking back, I can see that I was doing what a lot of business owners I see do. I was trying to fix everything through effort, you know. Um and a lot of things, the the harder you try or the more effort you put into, the more elusive the solution can become.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

And so, you know, I was looking at strategy like I mentioned before, I was looking at uh problem solving because those were you know the tools that I knew best. And the challenge wasn't that um, you know, every problem doesn't need a new strategy. Uh some problems just need a conversation, and I wasn't always great at recognizing the difference of when one was needed or the other. So yeah, it was a big thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah, it was, and then just thinking about you know, when things got difficult and I wanted to talk, so there was me pacing up and down outside your cave, your cave door, hoping that you'd open it at some point. And you know, I wanted to talk immediately, um, you know, repeatedly a lot, um, in detail, which as you can imagine, created some really interesting moments um of friction, you know, between us, because I'd be wanting to process things out loud, right? I'm an external processor, um, Mike is more of a reflector. And so while he wanted space to think, you know, for me, I taught my way to understanding, and so it was really important for me. And then the more pressure we were under, the more obvious those differences became. But you know, none of us, neither of us was wrong. We were just responding to pressure differently. And I think this is something for us to think about. Um, and at the time, though, it didn't feel like that. We didn't understand that. At the time, it just felt really frustrating. But of course, it's easy to see these things in in hindsight.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

Yeah, that's true. What's this really interesting looking back is that we genuinely thought we had a business problem at the start, anyway. We thought we needed a better strategy, uh, you know, a better plan, clearer direction. And those are things we were working on. You know, something in the business needed fixing. You know, because that's where all of the symptoms seem to be showing up. And that's where, you know, like everyone, I think people look at the symptoms first. And you know, the business is a is a visible thing. You you can see the numbers, you know, the way they're trending, all the challenges, they're all really visible. So naturally we we focused our attention there.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, yeah. Eventually we realized though, um, you know, something really important that the business wasn't actually our problem. The business was where the pressure was becoming visible, as Mike said, all those symptoms were showing up, like you know, a warning light on a on a dashboard. The light isn't the problem, but the light's telling you something that needs some attention. So around that time we started having a very different conversation. And instead of talking about what was wrong, we started to talk about our future. You know, we had to move ourselves from that place of you know, Mike not wanting to speak much, me wanting to talk much, going back into our thinking about what it was we needed to do helped us to understand that we needed to be more positive about what we did want. You know, those were the conversations we weren't really sort of having. So we needed to think again, what were we actually trying to build? So we came right back to that, those basics and thinking about the vision that we had, you know, what we wanted our life to look like, what mattered most to us. And that really was honestly the thing that that changed everything when we started to focus on what we wanted.

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Yeah, what surprised me was how aligned we actually were. You know, we both wanted to do meaningful work, supporting people. Uh, we both wanted financial security, which I think uh most people are looking for. Uh, we certainly both wanted the freedom of working from anywhere and doing our own thing, being our own bosses. And um we certainly wanted strong relationships between us and with our family and friends and and people that we worked with. And we wanted to make a difference in the world, have an impact. And to top all that off, we wanted a life we genuinely enjoyed living. Um, and that's you know, that's our abundance. So the destination wasn't the issue because we wanted all those things. The issue was that we had different ideas about how to get there. I think that's what we came to.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Yeah, we did, and and that was a huge realization for me because I'd kind of convinced myself that we wanted different things, you know, thought we were really pulling in opposite directions, went into that, you know, emotional space as as many of us do, um, especially as women, you know. And when we really talked about it, we discovered we were trying to reach the same destination. So you can imagine the relief in that when we realized that where we were going was something that we shared in. So that was great, and then gave us some positive um, you know, feedback that enabled us to have some momentum again around continuing the conversations to keep moving around, you know, how it was then that we were going to get there, because it were the it was the maps that was different. We just had different maps. And understandably, when you think about it, because Mike, um, you know, you come from a strong commercial background, um, business consulting, business coaching, about growth, performance, strategy, you know, you're a really great strategist. And I come from, you know, that place of um, you know, leadership development, learning and development, coaching and facilitating and you know, human behaviour and relationship sort of stuff. So we'd often look at exactly the same situation and come to different conclusions. And so I I've always been the person that says, you know, we need to understand the people better. And it's not that Mike doesn't want to understand the people better, but he might say, look, but we need a stronger business strategy. And the thing that we realized was that we were actually both right. We were just simply seeing different parts of the same of the same picture. So, you know, those are frustrations as well for us, weren't they?

SPEAKER_02 14:45

That's right. And that's when we started asking a different question. Instead of asking, what's wrong with the business, we started asking, what if we're looking in the wrong place? Because every time we thought we'd found the problem, another one appeared. It felt like we were mowing weeds without ever getting to the roots. So over time we realized there were actually three things influencing everything. How we were showing up as individuals, how we were functioning together as partners, and how the business itself was operating. So it's those three things. Eventually, those became what we now call me, us, and business.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

And um it really was kind of as simple as that, and the framework is is as simple as that. But as we you know often say, it's um it's a simple framework, but it isn't always easy, you know, to implement. But it is completely possible, and our work, you know, has has proven that. So when you know, we talk about me, that's about how we show up as individuals. So are we are we calm? Do we have the capacity to cope? You know, our personal capacity is really is really important for us to understand, to see, to monitor, to manage.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

And it moves all the time too, that goes up.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Well, that's well, that's right. And things that, you know, we may be, well, for example, you know, we think about things that change. Um, you know, one day we may be really able to manage our way through change or lead through some change. But and any other day, if something has happened to us, especially that was, you know, really challenging the day before, well, guess what? You know, the following day, it might be really, really hard for us to manage or lead change. And it really depends, we're human, we're so dynamic, we're so dynamic. Um so you know, it's about are we be are we clear about what matters to us as an individual in that me space as well? Because if we're not okay personally, eventually that impacts everything else. So understandably, the me doesn't matter whether you're a couple in business, whether you have multiple partners in your business, there are multiple individuals, and you all show up in that us piece. So in the us, then it's all about how we're actually functioning together. So, do we have a shared vision? Will we share it in our story? We we did have a shared vision, but we needed to stop and actually reflect and think, do we? And if we didn't have a shared vision, we were going to have to have done something about that. But that was the starting point. But we needed to understand how we were communicating. Did we trust each other? Do we understand what we're actually building together? And then thinking about how we actually do that. Hey, you know, getting into that that business piece.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Yeah, no, and so yeah, looking at the business, it's how the business operates, the the goals that you've got for the business, the systems, how systemized is it? Um, I'm I'm I'm big on that. Um the culture, because have you got a performance-based culture? Is it positive? And the capability of you know, your business, and that means the people and the technology in it to deliver, you know, what you're what you've set out for, the vision for the business. So can the business sustain itself without costing us everything else? So and then we realized was that we weren't trying to create a successful business, we're trying to create a family business. It didn't cost us the profit piece and the Sunday lunches. That's what what we wanted, and that changed everything for us. Today we described the outcome very simply. Addressing the me part creates calm leadership, addressing the us creates aligned partnerships, and addressing the business piece creates profitability, which impacts everything. Calm within, aligned together, profitable in a way that supports our life. And what we discovered is that healthy businesses don't create healthy partnerships, healthy people and healthy partnerships create healthy businesses.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

That's why everything we do starts with me, us, and business.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Yeah, it does. And so that is the framework that is the starting point of any of the work that we do with um, you know, any of the businesses that we work with. And while you were talking there, Mike, I was just thinking about um, you know, recently having worked with three business partners who are all fantastic people, really good people, capable, hardworking, and genuinely all wanting the business to succeed. And probably if you looked at the business itself, you know, you would have focused on the commercial challenges, um, which, you know, lots of businesses are having, especially at this time. But when we looked deeper, we saw something else, and our framework, you know, helped that. There were three people carrying different pressures, different frustrations, different expectations, and different needs. And those needs weren't really being addressed. And so that is where you know that me piece becomes really important because the individual needs of each person weren't being discussed. So, how could they possibly be looked after? You know, and if our business needs to support us and not the other way around, and our business needs to serve us and serve us at that individual level, because we all need something different, um, that was a real challenge. And so it meant that trust had weakened. So, of course, we know when there is, you know, a lack of trust that it becomes harder to step forward into conversations that you need, that communication piece becomes really hard. So, understandably, eventually the partnership has become quite fragile. Now they're working on things to better understand how things might continue to move forward and what it means for everyone and everyone's needs being met. Um, and now they've started to have those hard conversations because nothing can actually start until you're prepared to do that. And, you know, that's the work that we do. We hold space, safe space, for you to be able to do that with robust systems that help to guide you. Um, so you know, nothing is left to chance. So that story has particularly stayed with us because it was also us, you know, we've really lived parts of that ourselves, haven't we?

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Yeah. And we just think that particularly in this economic climate, uh, there's so many things businesses and business owners that you just can't control. Like the markets are so um volatile and um moving so fast now. Um, costs are going all over the place, uh, especially with the um, you know, the fuel cost hikes and inflation's been running rampant, interest rates are impacting businesses. There's all this economic uncertainty. And um, you know, the global events that we've got, uh it just creates so much um uncertainty, volatility, and ambiguity for everyone. But one thing we can influence is the quality of our relationships, the quality of our communications with everyone. That's close to us and we need that we need to have conversations with and the quality of our partnership. And we've become convinced that those things matter more than ever.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah, definitely. Because, you know, I think those of you listening who are in family businesses will understand that, you know, your family business is your relationships are the business. They really are. And, you know, because the dynamics of those might shift as the partnerships change, in that, especially in family businesses, you might be looking at succession and how to create a legacy. So your children might be moving into the business, they might already be in the business, you might need to exit. You know, and every time there's a shift in that partnership dynamic, there's a shift in the impact on your business. And you need to be once again looking at the me, the us, the business, and understanding. So one of the things that we eventually created from this work is the abundance in business scorecards. So a scorecard tool that helps you to assess, you know, where everyone is. So it was the tool that the business I spoke about before used to be able to gain understanding of their situation from each individual's perspective. It's a super simple tool that helps people look at all three areas, that meos and business, but it helps identify exactly where the pressure might really be coming from because it's different for every business and for every person in every situation. And that's the complexity and that's the sophistication of the work that you know you are undertaking when you get on board with realizing that your partnerships need to have, you know, some kind of support and work. Because the problem is, isn't, you know, it's well, it's rarely where people think it is.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah, that's right. Someone might tell us they have a business problem, then discover they're actually struggling. What they're struggling really with is um personal capacity, or they've got issues with role clarity, or they're not clearly um in tune with the vision. And suddenly the conversations change. So if you'd like to complete the scorecard yourself, you'll find it on the website. It's free, takes just a few minutes to complete, and often start some really important conversations that you get a lot of value out of.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah, super helpful because you'll get um, you know, you'll get instant feedback there as well. Um, so before we kind of roll into our last piece for today, we'd love to leave you with a question. I think we're probably going to do that each time. Um, for you to be able to just reflect. And if you were to look honestly at your own situation right now, knowing what we have said um about the me, the us, or the business, you know, where's an area that needs your attention most? Is it the me, is it the us space, or is it the business space? What is it that you think?

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah, and then just lead on to that, and what might that be trying to tell you, I guess? Um, because awareness is usually where change begins, and businesses don't change, individuals do. So as we come to the end of the episode, I think the thing we'd really love for you to take away is this if things feel difficult in your family business, uh, it doesn't necessarily mean you're failing. It might simply mean something is out of alignment. It might be in me, how you're feeling and showing up as an individual. It might be in us, how you're partnering, communicating, and making decisions together. Or it might be in the business itself, how the business is operating, growing, and sustaining itself. But once you can see where the pressure is coming from, you can begin to do something about it. And that's really why we created the abundance in business method, because we know what it's like to feel as though the business is costing too much, not just financially, emotionally, relationally, and personally. And we also know that things can change, not overnight, not by pretending everything is fine either, but through honest conversations, better understanding, and a practical roadmap that helps you move forward together.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Definitely. And as we said before, yeah, that's you know, the the well, the hard way actually is the easy way. The hard way is the easy way. Um, and again, the framework's simple, but not always easy to implement. But when it's implemented, what a change it makes. And it's something then that becomes a system within your own business that's you know something you can revisit time and time again. So if today's conversation has helped you see something in your own business or partnership, we'd love you to take that, you know, really gently. Um, sometimes it can be quite confronting, and you don't need to fix everything today, but just start by noticing where is the pressure showing up? What conversation might be needed, and which part of the framework needs your attention first? Is it me? Is it us? Or is it business? And if you'd like to take a deeper look at that and and a step further, as Mike said, you can complete the Abundance in Business Schoolcard on our website. It's it's free. Um, so there are opportunities for you to do that. So it is a simple way to see where things are strong, where pressure might be building, and what your next step could be. So thanks so much for spending time with us. And if this episode resonated with you, please subscribe or share it with someone else in a family business or partnership that you know. And do and join us again next week.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

Next episode, we're talking about someone we believe is one of the most important people in any family business. The person who notices first, the one who senses something isn't quite right, the one who lies awake at 2 a.m. wondering what to do.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah. And if you've ever been that person, we think you'll really see yourself in that conversation. So until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other, and remember that healthy people create healthy partnerships, create healthy businesses, and that's where abundance begins.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

See you next time on the Sunday Lunch Podcast.