3. When Something Needs To Change & You Notice First

Change in a family business almost always starts with one person.

The person who senses something isn't quite right before anyone else is ready to acknowledge it.

If you've ever found yourself lying awake at 2am wondering whether you're overthinking things, whether you should speak up, or whether you're the only one seeing what you can see, this episode is for you.

In almost every family business, partnership or couple-led business, change begins with one person. The one who notices the tension before anyone else. The one who senses conversations becoming harder, relationships becoming strained, or the business slowly drifting off course.

The difficult part? They often carry that awareness alone.

In this episode, Lisa and Mike explore what it feels like to be the person who notices first, why that role can be so lonely, and why awareness doesn't always arrive at the same time for everyone.

Drawing on their own experience, as well as the story of a business partnership facing this exact challenge, they discuss:

•  Why noticing first can feel both like a gift and a burden. 
•  Why people become aware—and ready for change—at different times. 
•  The emotional weight carried by the person trying to protect both the business and the relationships within it. 
•  Why trying to fix everything alone rarely works. 
•  How one courageous conversation can begin to change everything. 

Because awareness isn't something to fear.

And it could be all that stands between where you are now and the beginning of something better.

Sometimes the most important thing you can do isn't solve the problem. It's simply begin the conversation.

*Music credits to Dagored

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the Sunday Lunch podcast. I'm Mike Overwater, and I'm here with my partner in life and business, Lisa Clausen. We've spent most of our lives around family businesses. We've grown up in them, worked in them, led them, and at times we've even survived them. And what we've learned is that family business isn't really about business at all. It's about people, relationships, conversations, and what happens when all of those things become intertwined.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

And that is what this podcast is about having those honest conversations about family business, leadership relationships, and the realities of building something meaningful with people that you care about. So sometimes those conversations are inspiring, sometimes they're challenging, and sometimes they're simply the conversations that nobody else seems willing to have. So today's episode is one of those because we're talking about someone we believe is one of the most important people in any family business. The person who notices first.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

That's right. The person who senses something isn't quite right before anyone else sees it or is ready to acknowledge it. The person who lies awake at 2 a.m. wondering whether they're imagining things, whether they're overreacting, or whether they should say something at all, or whether they should just leave it alone and she'll be right. Hope things will improve. If you've ever found yourself in that position, we think you'll recognise yourself in today's conversation. So let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this topic recently, and partly because we've seen it so much in the businesses we work with, but also because when I look back on our own journey, I can see there were definitely times where one of us knew something needed to change, you know, long before the other one did. And I don't think that that's unusual. In fact, I think it's probably how most change starts. Not with everybody sitting around a table agreeing that something isn't working. It isn't like that. You know, it usually really is one person. It's that one person who can't quite shake the feeling that something is off. And the strange thing is they often can't fully explain it. And it might not be, you know, a big blow-up. Um, it's not always a crisis. Sometimes it's just a feeling, and a feeling that conversations are becoming harder, and people are, you know, more frustrated, and that's playing out, and then the atmosphere feels different. Things might be taking more energy than they used to. And I think because people can't always explain it clearly, then they start questioning themselves. Um, you know, I know I've done this myself. Am I overthinking this? Am I imagining it? Am I being too sensitive? Um, yeah, I think that's one of the loneliest places to be, because you're carrying something that nobody else seems to be talking about.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point because um just listening to what you describe, um, I think that both of us, both are, you know, or all partners can be thinking or feeling that things are are off, but don't necessarily say anything about it. And in fact, you can both be lying awake at night and um have a different lens on the same uh symptom or issue that might be might be sitting there. Uh it might be that people just pay attention to different things. You might notice tension, notice the energy, notice when something felt out of alignment, whereas the other person might be looking at uh different things like the business, the clients, you know, the projects, the numbers, and uh the practical challenges just sitting right in front of them. And because we look at things through different lenses, we've all you know, we've all got different perspectives and have different uh see things completely different because we've got different um, you know, background and you know, traits and and everything like that. And so we won't always see the same picture. I think that's something a lot of family businesses experience. People assume everyone is living, you know, the same reality, but they're not. They're looking through different lenses and carrying different pressures. So naturally, they just see things differently.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, um, I think that's one of the biggest lessons that um that I've certainly learned is that people don't become ready at the same time. You know, we know this too from our work in change. And you think about you know, change and change management, where we've spent a considerable amount of time in our careers um, you know, supporting organizations and leaders through change. And and we know that's the challenge. We need to engage everyone, right? We need to get everyone's buy-in. And but that's when you're really clear on the fact that something needs to change and you know what it is, and you're ready to tell and sell your story to others. So that's one element of it. But we know that people don't become ready at the same time, and sometimes when you don't have the vision, as we talked about in the last episode as well, kind of in place and something people understand, then how do you even begin to make you know anything different? And I think that, you know, this people not being ready at the same time has been true in our relationship, you know, at different times. Something it's been sometimes it's been you more ready, sometimes me. And it's definitely true in businesses that we've worked with. And it's probably true for you listening to this. Um, look in your relationships generally, you know, not just talking about business. But sometimes it really is that only one person notices that there's something going on first. They become concerned first, might start asking questions first. And look, because you know, they're ahead of everyone in their awareness, that feels incredibly lonely. I think what usually happens is that then that person starts carrying that, you know, and the weight and the burden of it, all that concern, the extra responsibility then that that brings. And then they carry the emotional load of it on their own. And then before long, you know, you're trying to solve a problem that nobody else has even acknowledged yet. Um, and that's really exhausting. And actually, you have to ask yourself, why would you do that when you're not actually certain, you know, what it is that you are, you know, that you are actually faced with. So be careful not to jump in too quickly because you might be wasting heaps more time and energy, which will really affect your personal capacity to show up well in your business.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

That's so right. Um and it's, I guess it's around the the awareness thing because it's the awareness becomes the burden. Um, you know, it's not just the issue that you're thinking about because you've got the issue that woke you up. Now you're aware of it to a deeper level. Um, that becomes a burden um in itself. And and that's the part people don't often talk about it. It's not just that you're worried about something, it's that you're trying to decide what to do with what you're seeing. And I know it uh myself is you you don't have the conversations because um you might um feel that the the other person's not really aware or sees the issue and you think the conversation isn't gonna go well. Um and you it's all going through your head. Do you raise it? Do you leave it alone? Do you wait? You know, uh, do you push harder? You know, and every option feels uncomfortable, especially when you're you know when you're in family businesses, the relationships are so much closer. So everything has a higher degree of um, you know, perhaps risk or however you want to frame it, um and how you raise things and address things. And um and and and that's a lot to carry. So um you know, you do feel uncomfortable and and quite often the conversation isn't gonna be perfect, it's not gonna be smooth, it's not gonna be sweet, but it doesn't mean it it it shouldn't happen. And um it's as long as you I guess erase erase any issues with the right intention, love and compassion. Um just yeah, it's a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Well, it is, and I think because you know that the the consequences, you know, of the of the conversation that you have, especially if it doesn't go well, are going to follow you, you know, into that's true, into your personal life, which is why we talk about Sunday lunches. Um, you know, because you and you don't know that, you don't know it until you've said something, of course. But until you say something, you don't you don't stand a hope of being able to get something sorted, which is why, again, you know, our work is grounded in trying to create safe spaces for people to have these conversations that are so flipping hard to have yourself. And so, yeah, we really, really understand that. But you you've got to have you've got to have the conversations. And look, again, this is about our general relationships as well. It's super hard to have them because also sometimes, um, well, actually, all the time, the other side of a difficult conversation is some relief. Yeah, you know, there is something new, there is an opportunity to do something better. That's that's without a doubt. Um, and I guess as well in this family business scenario where our relationships are so impacted, it's these are the times when you can ring fence the conversation being about the good of the business and the good of everyone, which might give you the courage to talk about it. And I mean, and these I can see and feel now as we're talking, Mike, that these are other future episodes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Oh, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

That we can we can jump into um because yeah, it's yeah, it's not light, it's it's deep. So um just thinking about actually a recent call that we were on with a couple in business together, and we obviously won't share um details, but um one of them had come across our work, I think, um, seeing one of our ads at 2 a.m. after not being able to sleep. Um, and they wanted to jump on a call because you know they needed some support to be able to, you know, get through from where they were. And they definitely cared really deeply about each other. You could see that and genuinely wanted the business to work. And in fact, there were a couple of businesses that they were both involved in. And one of them had started noticing things, you know, before the other. So I think that also was obvious. We saw a bit of friction with, you know, the person who had done that, bringing the other person onto the call in the first place. Um, so noticing that tension and frustration and that conversations weren't happening, um, and seeing that, you know, the expectations were starting to drift apart. So, you know, these were the kind of symptoms that were showing, and this particular person was thinking about them, you know, in the early hours of the morning. But what struck me was they weren't trying to criticize each other and um and and the person who had noticed wasn't trying to create any conflict, they were actually trying to protect what they'd built and didn't want to see it unravel. Um but they also realized that they were challenged in having those conversations on their own. Um, they could see where things were heading and they wanted to do something before it got there, which is what we really encourage people to do. You know, don't wait until you get to a point that you're unraveling. You can put some things in place. Our framework will help you to do that, whether you do any work with us or not, and you you take that scorecard and you see where you are, raise your consciousness about what's going on because you won't be able to do anything differently unless you start with doing that. And so I think this is something that many of you listening would relate to. You know, the people who notice first, um, if that's you, you know, are really trying to create problems. And if that's not you, and you have had an issue raised by, you know, one of your partners, know as well, they're not trying to create a problem, they're just trying to prevent them. And you have to start somewhere. So I think just us all being aware of what it might take for that to happen is is is helpful.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember that conversation actually. And uh you could almost feel the weight you know they were carrying.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

You could.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Um, you know, certainly um being awake at 2 a.m. Uh the need for something to change was just was obvious, but how to address it was the challenge. Um and their partner just wasn't in the same place. They had they saw things, you know, as we described, they saw things different and they had different pressures, they had different priorities, and they yeah, their realities were just in in a different, different space. So what you know makes it difficult is that nobody's wrong. Nobody's a villain in the story. They they simply weren't seeing the same picture at the same time, and that's incredibly hard when you're the one carrying the awareness because it can start to feel like you're pushing uphill.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Yeah, yeah, and that was definitely the part that that that stayed with me as I was sort of going, looking at each of them, you know. Um, we often talk about alignment as though everyone arrives there together, and of course they don't. And this is one of the pieces that has been a challenge to us really in our work because our group cohort program is for partners to come into together. It's called align, but what we realise is there is always one person that may have noticed first. And how do you get people to come into a program that's to support you all to come into better alignment when you need to be somewhat aligned in the first place? So, you know, that's there's there's real um substance in what we're saying here because these are the foundations of what we see um happening, you know, for businesses. It it is usually one person first. Sometimes the other people get on board very quickly and sometimes they don't. Um, because yeah, people are coming, becoming aware at different times and ready at different times, and we've all got different capacity, you know. So some of us may have more capacity at other times, and all of those things help us to understand when the time is actually right for us to have, you know, the right amount of collective capacity in the partnership to do the work that actually needs to be done. And that work always just starts with one conversation. Yeah, you know, one conversation can just change everything. So um, you know, I still think about that. And I know how hard that first person tried. You know, I know how much they cared, and I know how lonely it can feel when you're carrying that awareness that other people just haven't reached yet. Yeah. So they've still got more conversations to to have, haven't they?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Absolutely. Yeah. And I guess one of the things that we see happen over and over again is that the person who notices first starts believing they need to fix everything. Um, and I and I understand why, because you know, once you see the issue, it's difficult to unsee it. Uh, but it's a huge burden to carry. You feel like you're the person responsible for the conversation, um, and then responsible for finding and implementing the solution, um, and responsible for how everyone's going to react when you when you raise the issue. And um certainly you feel as though you're the one that's going to have to then um achieve the outcome because you're the one that's raised it. So it's your issue, you own it, you produce the outcome. And that's simply too much, I think, for one, you know, for one person to carry.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Yeah, and I I can see that the person who notices first does not need to have all the answers. You know, you don't need to have a plan, um, you don't need certainty. Sometimes, you know, their job is just to simply trust what they're actually seeing and feeling and to stop dismissing themselves and to stop convincing themselves that they're imagining it, and to be brave enough to start a conversation, which isn't going to fix everything, it's just the start, but start the conversation because that's where change you know needs to begin. And, you know, I've wondered recently that what if the awareness, you know, isn't a burden? So it's not the burden that you might think that it is. What if it's actually the gift? You know, that awareness and that consciousness-raising moment that you have is actually a gift.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

That's a really good point.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Well, and I think the challenge is too, though, to see it and see it almost subjectively. You've got to have self-awareness in the first place, you know, to be able to catch yourself, to see it, to know, to not explode, to not, you know, do anything until you're ready. You know, all of those things require us to have some self-awareness. But what if it's actually the gift? What if the reason that you can see something is because you're supposed to see it? Um, not so you can carry it all alone, it's because you're supposed to see it, so you can help bring it into the open. Because every meaningful change that we've ever seen doesn't matter if it's in our work now with family businesses, whether it was in the work that we were doing with, you know, corporates and bigger organizations supporting them and that, you know, leaders and teams through change, somebody notices something needs to change first, whether it's in those micro change moments where you're implementing something, you know, someone knows when it's not going well, you know, someone knows when it needs to go better, and someone needs to have that conversation to bring it. So, yeah, how can you how can you bring it? Yeah, how can you bring it?

SPEAKER_00 17:33

That's right. And I I I guess consciousness or awareness doesn't get guarantee that you're going to get a perfect outcome either. You know, I think that's important to say.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

And um just reflecting back on what you were saying before, Lisa, around um, you know, having the conversation. Um, I know at times where um egos and pride get in the way, you know, you might raise something and with the other person and um, or they might raise something with you and your pride um won't allow you to um you know acknowledge the the situation and and that makes the conversation difficult, but it doesn't mean that it that that it shouldn't be had and you need to work work through that. Um yeah sometimes people do the work and you know things improve dramatically. Sometimes it just takes longer than anyone hoped. Yeah um because you know change can be can be difficult and uh getting people on the journey is uh is a process. Um sometimes the businesses end up just changing shape and relationships change shape. All of these are these are possible, but it doesn't mean that you should sit quietly with you know what you're seeing. Yeah and as we know, life isn't a you know, getting from A to B, you know, E your North Star, your golden life. It it's not a straight line, neat process. Um awareness is super valuable because without it, nothing's gonna change at all.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Before we finish, we'd love to leave you with a question. What are you noticing right now that you haven't yet put into words?

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Oh, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Yeah, and who might need to be invited into that conversation?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

That's that's that's a really good question. And I was just thinking also, Mike, about what you said about you know, ego and things. And of course, we all need ego to get up and get out of bed in the morning, right? And get on and do the things that we want to do. But how can you, you know, start to think about being ends-driven instead of you know ego-driven? There's a bigger piece here. You've got a business, you're serving a customer. Whatever it is that you're doing, there is a customer at the end of everything. That's the reason that your business exists. Um, the reason that your business um needs to serve you is because you're all in your partnership making a contribution. So you deserve to all have your needs understood. Um, so conversations are the only way that you're going to begin that. So, how can you get out of your own way and be, you know, be ends-driven and not ego-driven in understanding there is a lot more at stake, you know, than just you losing a bit of pride in a moment or having to manage some really unpleasant, uncomfortable consequences, right? We have to, we have to, um, we have to brave up, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Absolutely. And some good things in there for future podcasts, please.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Definitely, definitely, definitely. Um, we're not going to be a shortage of topics to talk about. And actually, on that, we had a conversation after we recorded last time's podcast. And we thought, yeah, if there is anything that you want to bring forward and have a conversation about, then we'd love to hear about that. And at some point in time, we're probably going to you know get to a space where we can invite guests on. We just probably need to get into this flow a little bit ourselves and get better at this and to be able to manage that. But we would love that, of course, because this is an opportunity for us to all learn from you know each other. Um, and actually, there's a beautiful expression that I use a lot in you know, in our spaces of different work. But and this is a good one, I think, for you to remember now because we're just, you know, we're we're co-hosting together, um holding space in this podcast for some conversations that we hope are going to be really helpful. But you have so much wisdom, you know so much already, you know your businesses, you know your dynamics better than than anyone. And so I guess it's just you always remembering that um in your partnership situation, that everyone knows something, no one knows everything, and together you'll know most things, which is another reason why you need to come together, you know, as your collective and have those conversations, because you all have something of great value. And by the way, that wasn't an expression of mine. And um, and forgive me if I'm misquoting here, I'll put it right in a future episode, if I am, but I think that that uh those are the words of Margaret Wheatley, and she's a New Zealander, and um, and I think it's a really, yeah, it's a really good principle to kind of remember. So if today's conversation resonated with you, we'd love you to know that you're not alone. And we also have a free training on our website called Four Signs Something Needs to Change in Your Family Business. And um we think that you'll find it super helpful. So that is is there and available for you, I think, in the programs and trainings tab. So some of the most important conversations we've ever had definitely started with one person quietly thinking something isn't right. And some of the most important changes we've seen in family businesses started exactly the same way. So not with certainty or a solution, just with awareness. So hop up to the website www.echoeko.com.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yep. If that's where you are right now, take that gently. Trust yourself, get curious, and remember that you don't have to carry it on your own. Okay, thanks for spending time with us. If you've enjoyed today's conversation, please subscribe, share it with someone else on the family business or partnership, and join us again next week.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Until then, as always, take care of yourself, take care of each other, and remember healthy people create healthy partnerships, creating healthy businesses. And that's where abundance begins.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

See you next time on the Sunday Lunch Podcast.