Fat Jabs, Kelly Osbourne & Keyboard Warriors - Too Fat. Too Thin. Never Right.

Too Fat. Too Thin. Never Right.

This week on Face Facts, we’re talking fat jabs, Sharon and Kelly Osbourne, body dysmorphia, online abuse and why everyone suddenly becomes an expert whenever a woman changes her appearance.

We discuss the reality of weight loss injections, Faye’s personal experience using them, the impact they can have on the face, and the impossible standards women are expected to meet.

Too big. Too small. Too old. Too young. Too much. Not enough.

It seems no matter what women do, somebody has an opinion.

From celebrity transformations to comment section cruelty, we’re unpacking the judgement, double standards and unrealistic expectations women face every single day.

Because when it comes to women’s bodies, everyone seems to have an opinion.

And somehow, we’re still getting it wrong.

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Produced by Holly Rushton

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Face Facts, the podcast where we cut through the noise and separate the facts from the bullshit in the aesthetics and wellness industry.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

I'm Jem and I'm Faye, and in this episode we're going to be talking about weight loss, medication, injectables, um, and the effect that it has on your face.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Yeah. So aka GLP ones, also known as fat jabs, which include Azempic, Manjaro, Ragovi, Retitrutide, which is available in the States. Um so yeah, so you you won't mind me saying, you have tried them, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 0:41

I have tried them. Um and do you know what? If they'd been around years ago, I would have jumped it at the chance of them. Because I used to be quite a lot bigger um than I am now, and I think that they're a wonderful thing. My mum has been on them, she's lost a load of weight, and I think that for her it was the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

My mum's been on them. Um yeah, I um put my mum on them, and I've got quite a lot of clients who take them. Fantastic, I think, for clients who get that menopausal weight gain, and no matter how much they try and they're killing themselves in the gym. They're trying not to drink, they're they're already miserable anyway, because they're menopausal.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

And then everything they're trying to do is just not working.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

So I think in they it's just well, just made life so much easier for them, you know. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, and like my mum, she's lost loads of weight, she would never have been able to do it otherwise, and I honestly think that it will have prolonged her life. Um, so for that I'm really grateful, and her confidence has gone through the roof, and I'm so happy to see her happy. However, for me personally, I tried it and um I have anxiety anyway, and it just really affected my mental health, and it was kind of straight away from taking it. And then when I researched a little bit more about it, um, in fact, there was I told you, um, you hadn't heard of this person, but Jelly Roll's wife, she um had tried them and she said that it was one of the worst experiences of her life because she was like borderline suicidal after three minutes. I know.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

So I wonder if it's because it suppresses that hormone. Yeah. And then so it's funny enough, when I when we had this conversation, I I said to my mum, I said, Oh Faye can't take them because she says that it really affects her mood, and my mum said, Yeah, it does. She said it just dumbs everything down. She said it's like it takes the spark out of you. Yeah, like you know, like the spark away from Christmas, she said. She said, You don't your libido goes, you don't feel like sex, you have got no interest in everything, anything. She said you just have this sort of like fuck it, yeah, whatever attitude. It's the weirdest thing.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

It would be like I would take it in the evening, um, and it would just be like, Well, first of all, I couldn't sleep, so I was like, oh my god, like horrific for that. Not good if you struggle with insomnia or anything like that. But then it was like the next day. Well, they say, don't they, that it's good for people who want to cut down on addiction, like even alcohol addiction, they say that.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

I don't know why they don't give it to heroin addicts.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Honestly, because it was like I'd go to have a glass of wine and I'd be like, not just a bit.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

That's what my mum said. She said, She just can't drink on it. She said, and I don't know why they're not giving it out to her like proper, proper addicts, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

And so that's why I think it has its place, but I just think for me personally, it just wasn't good. And I think the other side of it that we see so often is we have women, don't we, coming into clinic who've been on weight loss medication, lost a hell of a lot of weight quite quickly, and that does have an impact on your face.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

So I are with my patients who are taking it, I recommend they stay on the lowest dose possible for as long as they possibly can. Not only are we women that are getting older, we're prone to osteoporosis. We don't, as women, we it's a lot harder for us to build muscle anyway. Then if you dramatically lose weight, you're gonna lose a lot of muscle. We need muscle as we get older, and it's hard for us to build it. So the slower you lose weight, the more muscle you're likely to maintain. So the better everything looks. So a lot I've seen a lot of people who have lost weight very quickly on these medications, and they look skinny fat because there's no tone there, there's no that they've lost all their muscle, so they're the skin's a bit loose and yeah, it's skinny fat basically, um, and it's it's not a great look.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Isn't the one so the new drug that's out in America now, that one is Retatrotice. Yes. And is that meant to be? I think you keep some of your muscle mass don't.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah, so it works on so you've got basically, I I describe it like this you've got Azempic Wagovy is like your Primarch. So that works on one hormone. Okay. One receptor. You've got Manjaro terzepatides, that works on two, so that's a bit like Yazara. And then you've got retrotrutide coming in, which works on three. Okay. So that's gonna be like your Prada.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Okay.

unknown 5:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

So that's in my layman terms explaining it. But with the retotrutides, I think is gonna be, I think Manjaro is gonna be better for people who are very, very overweight and they need to just shut that whole horm hunger hormone off. Whereas with retro trutide, it's gonna teach you to eat properly. Okay. Because it's not turning everything off completely. So which I think is better, because I think if you can build better eating habits and eat properly, then hopefully you're not reliant on this for the long run.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Yeah. What would you say? You know when people say because I work with a lot of personal trainers. I know you you were a personal trainer at one time. What would you say? And I know that there'll be people out there who would just say, You're just lazy, just go to the gym, just we don't need this. Like, people who are on them are just lazy, you just need to go to the gym.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

So I have it's the equivalent to a foundation level degree in nutrition. If this was about when I was doing my qualification, I would have said exactly the same. No, we need to teach people how to eat properly, how to supplement, how to exercise, give them a decent programme, get them confident in eating the right foods, in the gym, this, that, and the other. That doesn't work for everybody. And now I think I look at it now, and it's a tool in your box, in your tool, in your toolkit.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

And that's what it is. For some people, great, but other people no. But if that it's far in my eyes, it's far more unhealthier to be overweight and eating shit. Yes, yeah, you know, whereas this, if you lose a little bit of weight, and then you like, oh actually, I feel quite good about myself, oh, I think I might start going to the gym. Yeah, you know, it it's just gonna be a whole yeah, a whole new lifestyle. And that's what I've had with people. They've like, they've lost a bit of weight, they've then started the gym, and then they come into me because obviously all their face has melted, so to speak. And they're like, Finally, I'm gonna start doing some things for myself.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Yeah. And I love that. That's one of the things that I hear so often from patients when they come in and they it seems to be around like milestones. So they'll have either reached their goal weight, or they're gonna be 40, or they're gonna be 50, or weirdly enough, they've just been got divorced. And they want to kind of they're like, No, I'm gonna put myself first. I've not done that for a really long time. It's time for me. I want to invest in myself, and uh we're lucky, aren't we? That we can invest in our faces in a way that isn't as expensive for us because we've we know good injectors, we know um you know what works, what doesn't work, we're not wasting money on and we're not guessing. We're not guessing. Um so it can become like a really costly exercise, can't it?

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Oh goodness, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

But it's so important because if you just do nothing for me, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Well, I think like your face in your body, it's like a car, it's like a house. You have to service it, you have to maintain it. So you're you don't like not put oil in your car, do you?

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Well, I just don't.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

What about add blue? Do you put that in? Do you know what ad blue is?

SPEAKER_00 9:38

I d is it coolant?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

No.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

What is it?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

It goes in the in the bit.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

In the bit. You nearly have me then.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

So no, it's something I think it's something to do with the fuel.

unknown 9:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Isn't it pigwee?

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Pigwee?

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Oh my god, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Add blue, yeah, I'm sure it's pigwee.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

I'm sure it's so too big. I've accidentally put it in the wrong hole once.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

That's gonna so be an outtake. Um we'll have to keep that in there.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Anyway, yeah, let's not start any rumours.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Um, but I have put that in the wrong it goes, so I would think, I'm sure it's something to do with the fuel, but you would just assume that it would go in where you put your diesel.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

But it doesn't. I've seen Ricky's lifted up the bonnet and it goes into there somewhere. That's a that's a boy job.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

That is a boy job.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Nothing. Oh, it's really good. I'm actually, I can't you know, like people like really complain about their partners and they're like, oh, they're so fucking lazy, they didn't do anything. Like, I can't I can't moan. Like he'd he'll put washing on, um hang washing out. Yeah, he does we sort of like have our own jobs that we do, but I don't have to yeah, no, like yeah, I think he just ke he he I've we I was saying this to Charlie the other day, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:06

And he has kind of as I've got a bit older and the pressure of having kids, three kids, three under five.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah, that's mental. And I had What um were you taking any drugs when you made that decision?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Not contraception, clearly. But um, yeah, like it's been so overwhelming that I feel like at one point I just got to a point where I was like, I can't be responsible anymore.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

So I just No, it's too much shit going on.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

So I just went the other way, and then he kind of became like my parent. It's really weird. He'll say if you're taking your supplements, and I'll be like, uh, you know, no, you know, he kind of parents me a little bit. Um but yeah, I think it's just the overwhelm of having too many kids and just yeah, not enough time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Um but yeah, I haven't got a cleaner at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Okay, so I have a cleaner that comes twice a week and someone that puts a this sounds really I probably get hate for this, but I have a cleaner that comes twice a week on a Tuesday and a Friday, and I have a gorgeous woman, um, Adele, who comes in and puts our clothes away.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Oh my god, I'm so jealous about the clothes putting away. I just really um I'm gonna get so much hate for that, I think.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

No, I just well do you know what I look at like I have three kids over time, I've got business.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, you do not need to justify it to me. I get it, because I think if how much money could you be making doing something else rather than putting the clothes away? So that pays for itself, you know. Um I don't have a cleaner just because I am fucking OCD. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

And they'd never do as good a job as you.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

No, and then the ones that I've had, the few that I have had, I just end up being like, oh for fuck's sake, like I'll end up doing it myself. Yeah. So yeah. So going back to talking any amazing cleaners, please get in contact.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Hello at any OCD cleaners, yes, please reach out.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah. Um, so going back to talking about fat chaps then and Azempic, uh, we've seen some examples, haven't we, of celebrities Kelly O. Yes, and her mum, Sharon. And well, let's just take a step back, I think, a little bit, because we talked in our last episode about insecurities and a lot of this stuff coming from a place of insecurity. And like Kelly Osborne, let's be fair, she's been bullied.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Bullied for her whip.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

In the past. And I totally get like anyone in the public eye that succumbs to plastic surgery, having treatments done, taking medication, this, that, and the other, like the amount of scrutiny and shit that they get.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Like I d I honestly don't know how they do it. Like, seriously, when you actually think I've we we obviously have businesses that we run online.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I'm gonna if I'm gonna turn the comments off so I don't have to read them because I I'm like not mentally well, I am mentally strong, but I just think it's really cruel when you start picking on someone's appearance. There's just no need for it. Like I was brought up like if you don't like something or you don't like somebody or you don't just shut your fucking mouth and move on. Like you don't need to be nasty.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Just shut your fucking mouth and move on.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah, but you don't need to be nasty, like I all these trolls online. I'm like, why? Like, why are you like where is that coming from?

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Like I would never if I didn't like something online, I don't didn't give it two thoughts because they're insecure, they're insecure, and so they're projecting that insecurity onto you. It's like so often when I look at negative.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

But even when I was really insecure about my own appearance, I was still wasn't a fucking horrible cunt, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

No, and that's what that's what I think has happened to Kelly Osborne. She's had a lot of stick for a lot of years about her appearance, her weight, then she had a gastric sleeve.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Oh, did she?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I didn't know she had that, or I think a sleeve or a bypass, she had one or the other, and she thought about it for a really long time. She had counselling, she went down that route, and then she had a baby, and then it seemed well she's lost a dad as well.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

So But I found that after having Elliot my figure dramatically changed. But previous to having him, I trained like an absolute lunatic. So I was doing hours and hours of exercise a week over exercising. I clearly had like a problem with it. Like looking back now, like I'm like, Jesus Christ, I had an exercise addiction. Like I'd panic if I couldn't exercise or if I missed a a session.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

How many hours do you think you were doing in a week?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Oh, over 25.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

That was like a job.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

It was my job at the time.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

That is a full-time job.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Like way before I had Elliot, you know. Yeah, yeah. Um, but well, yeah, but not only that, I would then choose to go and do more exercise on a little break that I had.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

That is wild.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Yeah. But I was obviously not in a very no like with my body not in a very good place. But then it took me so long to get pregnant with Elliot because we were gonna go down the IBF route. But because I've got Bobby, my eldest, um, so Bobby, my eldest, is just coming up for 18, Elliot, my youngest, is just coming up for four. My eldest, Bobby, as you know, is severely autistic. He was very he was diagnosed at two and a half and he was very hard work for a good few years, and we were like, we can't have another child because we need to give everything we've got to this one, you know, took all our energy, yeah, yeah. And we didn't lead a normal life with him. Like we it wasn't wasn't until he was about ten that we could go and sit in a cafe because yeah, because and he was obviously non-verbal, he speaks now, but that's why I had such a big gap.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Was that a bombshell at that time at two and a half?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Was that how do you know I knew there was something wrong but I was in denial?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

But I think as a parent, when you know there is something wrong with your child, you are a little bit in denial. I think, especially when you're not pushing for a diagnosis, you know, because I would I would well I still would give anything for him to lead a normal life, you know? Because he has like really bad anxiety and you can just see worries about everything. Yeah. Um so to take that away for him I would do in an instant. Yeah, of course. Whereas what I find really hard is when I've gone right off on one, I find it really hard when you have everybody wants to stick a label on somebody now. Um and if a kid is just naughty, oh well he's got to have something wrong with him. No, your kid's just fucking naughty and you need to parent it.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Sometimes it's poor parenting. It's not the child, it's not that the child's ADHD or autistic or this, that and the other. I mean, some people might cut at me for that. I think people would And they're the ones that I find are pushing for a diagnosis. And it's like if your child has got something wrong with it, the last thing you want is that diagnosis.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Because it just feels so fine.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Yeah, you'd give anything. Yeah. I'd give like my right arm. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah. Because do you find it offensive then when people say, Oh, I think I'm on the spectrum?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

If they gen if I can tell they generally aren't, yeah. Because it takes the piss out of people that really are, you know? Yeah. It dumbs it down.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Yeah. Like we all like me and my mum always said it would be because with autism it's something you can't always see. I mean, sometimes you can with Bobby because he's got a teddy that he carries around with him, and quite often he'll have headphones on, and so you can sort of see, because he's obviously quite tall, uh an 18-year-old lad walking around with a teddy, you know something's probably not quite right. But if he was born with like if all autistic people had a green ear or something, yeah, you know, then you'd know. Yeah, yeah. And people might just be a little bit kinder and a bit more forgiving.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Yeah. And I suppose that's where we're that's where we're coming at with like the whole conversation around this, around people who have like just be kinder. Like with the whole Kelly Osborne thing, like I d you know, at the moment, bless her, I think she looks She just looks gaunt.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

But I just think she looks sad. And she's probably grieving. Yeah. And for her, and like I do, uh I can control it's a form of control with your diet and with your food.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

And it's interesting, one of my on my Instagram, one of my posts that kind of went really big was about this woman who had been grieving and she had a bit of a glow-up. And one of her things was that she said that she feels as though the tears left a mark, and how grief leaves a mark on your face. Yeah. And I do think that that's true. We all live a life, don't we? We all have these experiences that uh shape us and make us like you talk about Bobby, and that's obviously been really hard for you to go through. And I think all of these things do leave a little imprint on you, but how can it not?

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah. I think with me, like my exercise addiction came from again, it was control, it was something I could control when I was struggling with Bobby, you know? Yes. And I've I'm probably like all autism runs in our family, so my nan is autistic.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Is she?

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Well, she's not diagnosed, but she 100% is. We can see where it comes from. Her son is severely autistic. Obviously, I've got Bobby that's severely autistic, and I probably would say I am on the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Aren't boys more heavily affected than girls, or have I got that?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

It's it's higher in boys than it is girls.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Um and is that because girls can mask a little bit more?

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah, and now I'm getting older, I've I've found that I've probably masked my whole life, and this is probably. Where my OCD and my hyperfixations on things come in.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Well, I think that and the control.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

I always have to be in control of stuff. So it'll be at the minute it's my diet.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Whereas before it was exercise. But what I was getting at, and when I went off onto a tangent, my figure changed after having Elliot because I wasn't track I wasn't exercising like a lunatic. So when I was doing all that exercise, I was like, just another class and I'll lose a bit more weight, and another class and I'll lose some more weight. But my cortisol levels were through the fucking roof.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

So when your stress hormone is really high, it's very hard for you. Well, when you're doing it through exercise, very hard for you to lose weight. So your body will just hold on to things.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

That's probably why my bloody body's permanently stressed. Yeah, and now making excuses, it is also the chocolate bars.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah, and then after I had Elliot, I was like, I'm really busy in clinic, I've got a newborn baby, I cannot get down the gym. No, I need to control my food with my diet. And then I would just was really strict with my diet. But then I've been on all sorts of like throughout the years, I've been on like bodybuilder type diets where I've weighed everything I've eaten.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

In fact, let's name diet. I've been on the cabbage soup diet.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Uh special K.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Ducan. Special K I did. Yeah. Ducan.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Um shit tablets.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Cambridge.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Did you do the shit tablets?

SPEAKER_00 23:40

What are the shit tablets? Yes! I remember Ali Adios I did. Oh I did.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Oh my goodness. So when I did Adios. I was working for Clarens at the time. And I took Oh no, can't just take one, can I? No, because I have to do everything to do the stream. I double drop them. Oh no. And I was on my counter and I was like, oh god, I've got a really bad stomachache. And at the time I used to walk to and from work. It's when Ricky, me and Ricky had our first house, and it was like a mile and a half's walk from the town. And I would normally walk to and from work every day, and I was like, oh my god, this is going on. I was like, I need to go home. So I had to go to HR and I was like, I need to go home. And they were like, okay. I had to call a taxi to get home. Awful. I was shitting my fucking ass off for about six hours. Oh so ill.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

So that was such a bad one. Yeah. That was such a bad one. I think that was probably I mean, they were like, what were they?

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Fat binders or something.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Yeah. So they just used to extract fat out in your pill. But then if you had a lot of fatty food, it would just come out as oil.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

No. No terrible.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

What other ones have you done?

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Um I've done like Slimming World and Weight Watchers. Oh, I've done the shakes. Yeah. The shakes work until you stop taking the shakes.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah, it's like anything. It's like if you it's a calorie reduction. So if you redu however way you reduce your calories, whether you just decide to have three miles bars a day or have three milkshakes away, three milkshakes a day, as long as you've cut your calories down, you're gonna lose weight.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

The when I was at school, because I was quite big during school, I was bullied quite a lot. Um and actually I just the way that I lost the weight wouldn't recommend this was I just ate apples. Nothing but apples and lettuce. And obviously I lost a hell of a lot of weight. I mean, how I wasn't really seriously unwell, I don't know. Um, but I lost a lot of weight fast. But you do when you're younger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Now I don't eat a lot and still Do you remember like when you were younger, you'd be like, you'd wake up, obviously, you'd be out over the weekend and then feel like shit on a Monday. Yeah. And then you'd be like, Oh, I'm going out again this weekend. I know, I just won't eat bread this week and I'll drop half a stone.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Seven pounds in a week, yeah, and you don't even need to think about it now. It's like, oh, yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah, now it'd be like seven years to drop half a stone. Yeah, it would feel like.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Yeah. What are we we were gonna talk as well about um you haven't seen this, but I know that you've heard about it. But Manisfer has been on. Yes. With um Louis Thereuke Louis. I do like Louis, yeah, he's good. Louis, he reminds me so much of my one of my really close friends' husband. Like, just remind me he's got that perfect way of like just being silent, but I think that in this particular subject, uh the silence they just couldn't handle it.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Really?

SPEAKER_00 27:07

They just couldn't handle it. They just they were on the back foot anyway. Everyone told them so manosphere is all about uh what is it like toxic masculinity? Is that what we're gonna call it? And they just had these uh various different men who had some really disturbing and wild things to say. I mean, they showed them some of the examples, some clips, and one of them was like uh basically, in my opinion, inciting rape. He was like, if you want sex and it's your girlfriend, you take it.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Which is just uh abhorrent because what is worrying is that our sons, we both have sons, yeah, could end up watching that and could, without the right guidance, think that that is okay and acceptable. Yeah, but yeah, there was just a whole like it was really alarming, really scary things that they were saying. But to be honest, I felt sorry for these boys, and that is what they were, they weren't men, they were boys.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

But they were talking as well about how one of them had a wife and she was pregnant, but he she wasn't allowed to have other partners, but he could.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Wow. I mean And she was okay with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Well, on camera.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Did you see her? Yeah, really? But then, like, the type of men that these are, first of all, it's given small dick energy all day long, and the type of men that they are, they would like basically I'm not saying that violence, I mean they beat the confidence out of somebody. Like they they would put their woman down, like make them think she's not capable, he's the man, you can't do anything.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Well, one of them said that women never women have never invented anything.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Oh, we gave fucking birth to you.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

So that's wrong. Um, but on another one, he got all these girls into his podcast studio, and they were kind of like tearing shreds out of these young girls. Oh, so he does a podcast. Yeah, so he does a podcast. Had these young girls in there who used they use each other to kind of leverage their platform, but he had these girls in and she was sort of giving him a bit of shit back, and he was like, Do you know what? You're ugly and fat, you just need to get out of my studio.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

And I was like, that is so like just uncalled for, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Like just nasty, nasty.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Can I just say it was no oil painting?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Yeah, like how dare you? Like like the audacity, isn't it? And talking of the audacity, but and this is these types of men that do this as well. Dick pics, you know, when you do you get them in your DMs?

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Right, not anymore, but back in the day, what is wrong with people? Well, men.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

I don't want to open my phone from some fucking stranger, or it's not even a stranger sometimes, it's people you know, yeah, and I think, how the fuck have you got the audacity to send me that picture of your fucking button mushroom? Like, I don't want to see it. Like, they're not even nice to look at. Why do men think do mention it? And also, it's not even like you've had a dialogue with them. No, it just comes out of the blue, it comes out of nowhere. In fact, I will go as far as to say it's sexual harassment, it's not fucking on.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Of course it is.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Imagine if we just like got our clouts out and just started taking pictures of them and sending them.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

They'd love it.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

But yeah, but that's the problem. But it's it's like no.

unknown 30:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

And I just think like it's violent. Yeah. Like you they might think if they just think it's funny and like, oh, I've got my dick out and I'm gonna send it to you. No, I didn't fucking ask for it. I'm not talking to you. I don't sometimes I don't even know who the fuck you are. Yeah. Like, no, and what the thing is, it's just what if your kid got hold of your phone? Like, because your kids play on your phone and stuff, it's just not fucking on.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

But it's weird, isn't it, how there's like there is a whole secret world of things going on, I think.

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Yeah, and on some things I just think I'm like so fucking naive too as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Same. Because there are sex clubs, there are swinging, there is all these kind of things going on. So it's like we're probably a bit naive. We get addicted to the side.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

I know, I have I have clients that go swinging. Do you? Yeah, but I just think like fucking they're consented adults, aren't they? I think people that go to swingers' clubs, like they're they're all going there for one reason, and they're all consenting adults. I would like to just go and walk around and see what's going on, but I would it's not I wouldn't be up for participating.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

But you wouldn't get very far because they'd be they'd all want to have sex with you.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

No, I'd just be like, I'm just a lucky. Oh, can you just look? No, I don't think you can. I would just be like, I'm just a lucky lucky. Just have a little look for 10 minutes. She's not up for anything. Um no, um but I think like the people that go there, they're all consenting adults, they all know what they're going there for. It's behind closed doors.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Did you have you ever watched that documentary, which I think might have been a Louis Threw one as well, actually, of swingers? And it was funny because this man had got his wife into swinging, but when you actually took a step back and watched it, she wasn't swinging at all, she was taking the tickets as everyone was coming in. What? So was he getting on everyone? So he was getting on everyone, and they had this like house with a pool and champagne and everything, and she was like sat on the reception taking and it was dead sad. So he just wanted to get his end away with other people, yeah, and she was just there doing the admin. Oh which isn't that kind of like what happens in some dynamics?

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

And that that's the manosphere thing, yeah. You know, yeah. And by the way, I have to say, and we talked to in our previous episode about like my husband is such a good dad husband. Like, there are I'm not shit talking about men here because there are we're talking about a select few that don't represent, like no, they give men a bad name.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Yeah, because there are some really decent men out there, yeah. Like I'm like my Ricky is like a decent man, and he gives off like your Charlie probably does, a decent man that respects you, gives off big dick energy, yeah. Do you know do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Charlie will love that. We we need to we need to pull that out as a clip because Charlie will love that. Um okay, so I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions now. Okay. So, what is your most hated treatment or something you wish you'd never had done?

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Oh, for me, probably when my lower face botox is settling in, I have a couple of weeks and I'm like, oh my god, what the fuck have I done? You feel like you can't talk properly. Yeah, and I laugh and I feel like I'm giforing because I'm like, Yeah, and you can't whistle.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah, you can't and we say this, but how often do we whistle? Do you whistle a lot?

SPEAKER_01 34:44

I whistle every day while you work.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Whistle while you work.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

No, normally at the kids. I'm like, come on. Yeah. I don't treat my kids like dogs, but you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um and it's not that I don't wish I hadn't done it, I just hate that settling in bit. So for instance, for me, and I say this to a lot of clients, I like my Botox and my filler about six weeks later, when everything has settled down, and then I look in the mirror and I go, Oh yeah, I like it now. Nice. Yeah. And when I'm all back to move in properly, everything's settled, there's no swelling, no bruising. Um, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

And I think that's what a lot of patients need to remember as well, because I think initially because okay, let's talk about baby Botox. I.e. just a bit of Botox. So you've still got so it's like it's it's just a it's just a marketing thing. Yeah. Botox is Botox. There is no real such thing as baby Botox.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Like dose dose equals longevity. Yeah. So if you go frozen, it's gonna last you longer. Yeah. If you go brow lift, which is could be baby Botox, yeah. Um it's gonna wear off quicker. Yeah, but it's exactly yeah, it's just dose and duration.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Yeah. And so pay patients need to remember, don't they, that sometimes you have to go through the peak of Botox to get to the sweetest.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, have the shits bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 36:09

What's your Well, I'm so conscious that the girl who did my lip blush might be watching this, and it's not that I didn't love lip blush, but if you are predisposed to cold sores, it's just not the one for you. Right. Because I ended up with about four or five cold sores, and it was just so not worth it for me.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

Really?

SPEAKER_00 36:30

So not but if you take the a cyclobar, did you not take that? No, because I didn't and I should have, yeah, and I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Because I tell all my clients when they come in for a consultation for lip filler, I'm like, do you get cold sores? And if they say yeah, take it.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

But it's weird because with lip filler, I've never got cold sores.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Have you not? No, so it might be because of the amount of time that's on the lip, you know?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Yeah, so um yeah, no, wouldn't be repeating that.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

I'm gonna ask you a couple of treatments. So, microneedling, rate or hate?

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Love, love microneedling, think it's an amazing treatment.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

It's so versatile, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 37:11

It's really underrated. I think it's one of the most underrated treatments. However, I have to say that radio frequency microneedling, which people get a bit confused on, um, I don't love.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

No, I don't either.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

So interesting. Don't we often feel the same things about them, yeah?

SPEAKER_01 37:30

So have you seen the pictures of um Judy Murray when she had Morpheus?

SPEAKER_00 37:36

No.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

You know Judy Murray tennis. So there is some pictures, before and after pictures of her having Morpheus, and there's a lot of stuff now coming out about Morpheus 8, and people saying actually it's probably not that great. No. Um and anyway, when I saw this before and after, I was like, there's no way that is just from radio frequency microneedling. Her face is smoother, and she's clearly had Botox and filler as well, but they were trying to say that it was just from that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

I think the results industry has a lot to say about the way that we market things. Yeah. Not us personally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

But you know that results are hyped on that.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yeah. And Mika Johnson is. She's just had a massive glow-up.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Oh, has she?

SPEAKER_00 38:21

She looks really good for it.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

Oh, good.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah, she does. She looks really good for it. Um, she's had I think she's gone more traditional, like she's had Botox filler.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Nice. But she didn't have anything, did she? So whatever she will have had done would have made an impact.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Massive, yeah, she looks fab. She looks really good.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Oh, fair play. Um What about Haifu? I know. I've never had this as well.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

So we were talking about this before, weren't we? So I think Haifu is good if you it's really good for sculpting, lifting. It's good if you've got a little bit of a wobble under your chin.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

I wouldn't say it's so if you're fuller in the face.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah, so me, Haifu is your best friend. You're gonna love it, it's gonna give you a snatch jaw. Um I just love it.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Whereas it melts a little bit of fat because it heats everything up, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Thermal coagulation, yeah. So it's ultrasound energy, heats it up, goes to your SMAS layer, so the layer that we work on when you have a facelift, um, and it's really good for lifting and tightening.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

But like for you, for example, I don't just melt what tiny little bit of fat I've got in my face.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Yeah, so I think you're more of a candidate for like sculpture or yeah, and that's what I was gonna get on to next.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Sculpture, rate or hate.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Love.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

It gets so bashed. It's it's a real controversial.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

I was really afraid of it for ages. Just because I've heard all the bashing of it and it was I'm one of these when I first started in aesthetics, I would train in every single new treatment as soon as it came out. But now I prefer to sit back for a couple of years and be like, okay, let's see the complication rate of this, let's see some before and afters a bit longer down the line before I train in anything and make a decision.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

So I saw an interesting thing the other day, and it was you know that podcast Niptock.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Yes, I love that. Yeah, I love those girls. Love, love Ashley and Laura.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Yeah, I love those girls. And Ashley was sort of quite vocal about the fact that she was like, do not do biostimulators, do not do sculpture. But like, I couldn't disagree more with that. Like, and I love those girls. Yeah, but I just really disagree with that.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

I think maybe because she's had a facelift, so maybe it's coming from what her surgeon said to her.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Yeah, so it's a perspective thing. Yeah. Because I think a lot of surgeons are quite vocal, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Saying, Yeah, some are really for and some are really against.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Yeah. My sur my surgeon that did my um, he said that just give it six months before you go to have your facelift.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

So sculpture, what we're giving that one out of ten?

SPEAKER_00 41:06

I'm gonna give it a nine. Perfect. Yeah, I'm gonna give that one a nine. What about um fat freeze? So cool sculpting.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Oh, so that one I would say to keep your money. I tried it years ago and what a pile of shit. Honestly, it was like they put this. Did you have to freeze? Well, that I was like probably 10 kilos heavier then.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

And they basically get this like block, don't they? And put it on your wherever you say that you've got fat. Yeah, and it sucks it up, and you sit there for like 40 minutes with your fat sucked up into this like it's like an ice cream tub, isn't it? Yeah. Sucked into the ice cream tub. Yeah. And then they're like, oh yeah, and then in a few days you'll I was so itchy.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Were you itchy?

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Um I can't really remember, but I remember just thinking this has done shit.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

I was insanely itchy. I do think it did a bit of something. A bit of something.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

I went to this really like back street clinic as well.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Okay, so I went to Gorgeous Woman, she was really cool. And but I just think it is expensive.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

No, I paid like 60 quid. 60 quid? Yeah, because it's one of these, it's a clinic. I think they've got them all up and down the country. It's called cool contours. Have you heard of that? Um they've got them up like in in the south, there's quite a few of them, and they are renowned for high turnover, very cheap high turnover. But nothing they do actually works.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

It like I do not do um, you know, the likes of like lemon bottle and things like that, because I just don't think it works. No. So it's like it might be cheap to have, but that's because it's shit. It's doing nothing for you.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

Yeah, and also they say, Oh, it's all natural. Like, I don't do fat dissolving. Do you do fat dissolving? No, I did it years ago, and I'm like, I'm not doing it anymore because I feel like I'm ripping people off. Yeah. And what I used to do with my fat dissolving is I would give them one of my nutrition plans.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

And actually, they lost weight because they were following my diet. Yeah. Like, and it was a tailored diet to them as well. Yeah, much better. Um, and that's how they lost weight.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Hai fo, if you've got a double chin, is wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

And that's a lot of the time people would come for they'd ask me if they did um fat dissolving injections under the chin, and actually Haifu amazing. Yeah. Or just Laibo.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Yeah, that jaw type. Yes. With uh Dr. Is it Salzina? Yes. Her results look amazing. Insane. Olivia Atwoods had it done with her. Yeah. I love Olivia Atwood.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

Another girl had it, I can't remember her name. Cat you know Cat Dealy? No, not Cat Dealy. Anyway. Cat you know, she does a lot of aesthetic stuff. Skincare, she's got a skincare thing. Anyway, I can't remember. But she's a-she American. No, she's she's English, but she's had she's had an amazing result from it. Right, okay. So, um what are we saying about core sculpting?

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Uh fucking shit.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

Zero.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

Yeah, zero minus zero.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Yeah, I I agree.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Um, okay, and then what do we think about threads?

SPEAKER_01 44:38

No, absolutely not. I just think, um if you seen how they do that, if you've seen the tool, it looks like a screwdriver.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

It looks brutal.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

I just think no, like stay in your lane. You're not a surgeon. Don't be inserting Frankenstein screwdriver in someone's head.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

What do you say though? If someone says, Well, I can't afford surgery Save up, wait.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Wait, do something else. Do something else. Don't because you can have nerve damage with threads. I have seen some yeah, really like awful.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Have you seen the cat eyes that they do?

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Yeah, it looks horrific. And everyone's like, oh look, well, I've got this amazing like it's like the Russian lips, it looks amazing when it's first done because you're swollen because it's so invasive. But I think anything like that should be done in a surgical setting as well, personally. So I think we're giving that a zero. Yeah, I don't rate it. I mean, I'm probably gonna get loads of injectors that will come at me for this and be like, you don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Oh well, we've signed up for that, haven't we? When you do a podcast, you sign up for a bit.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

Yeah, but you've got you've got to have an opinion, haven't you? Yeah. And at the end of the day, this is just our opinions.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Yeah, exactly. Um but I agree with you on that one. Um so yeah. That's our second episode.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

Yeah, so if you made it to the end, thank you for listening and we will catch up with you on the next one. See you soon. Take care.