Complications, Controversy & Cosmetic Tourism - What’s Really Going Wrong?

BBLs. Botox. Bad injectors. And the conversations the aesthetics industry keeps trying to avoid.

This week on Face Facts, we’re talking BBLs with dermal filler, the rise of “celebrity injectors”, surgery abroad, regulations, unrealistic expectations and the uncomfortable truths about the aesthetics industry.

From the Lip King to the growing trend of liquid BBLs, we’re asking where the line is between innovation and irresponsibility.

We get into why regulation can’t come soon enough, what happens when practitioners inject beyond their level of competence, and why so many complications could be prevented with better education, ethics and accountability.

We’re also talking cosmetic surgery abroad, whether the horror stories tell the full picture, the reality of managing patient expectations, blacklisting patients, and why sometimes saying “no” is the best thing a practitioner can do.

Oh… and yes, we’re talking about Kris Jenner too.

This isn’t about scaremongering or shaming people for the choices they make.

It’s about having the conversations the industry often whispers about instead of saying out loud.

Because aesthetics shouldn’t be about chasing trends.

It should be about putting patients first.

If you’ve ever wondered what’s really going on behind the perfectly curated before-and-afters, this episode is for you.

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Facebook: @Facefacts Podcast

Produced by Holly Rushton

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Face Facts, the podcast where we separate the noise from the bullshit in the aesthetics of wellness industry. I'm Jen and I'm Faye, and in this episode we're going to be talking about the industry, the good, the bad, there is some ugly and everything in between. Yeah. So shall we start with, because this is obviously very recent, uh, BBLs and the unfortunate death of Jordan King, aka the Lip King. So for those of you that don't know, a BBL is a Brazilian bum lift, which is uh procedure performer diamond or filler. Now, this injector, he was was he under he was under or definitely he got arrested. He was under investigation, wasn't he? Yeah. It was an ongoing court because he did this procedure on another injector, uh, and unfortunately she died. It was all in the press, I'm sure you've all read about it. And now, unfortunately, I'm sure they're saying that the rumour is that he's died from following the same procedure, yeah. Yeah, so I mean, for me, it's just too risky, just no. Yeah, I think it's like you were you you said in an earlier episode about threads and how you feel like that is just that step too far, and how that's a surgical procedure essentially, yeah. And I think that that is when we're talking about it's the volume of filler that we're putting into that area, um, and then it's in an area that is um very vascular, very vascular, open to infection, yeah. Um it's just one of those things where it's just too dangerous, and I think the regulation is coming in, regulations are coming in at the right time, and I think that people obviously consumers seem to want it for valid reason. I want it, you want it. Um what a BBL? No regulation. Oh, goodbye. No, we don't I don't want I don't need a BBL. I don't need a BBL, I need less of a BBL. Regulation we desperately need. I mean there and there's good and bad in both camps. I know some incredible non-medic injectors, um, and I know some incredible medic injectors, but in both camps I know some medic injectors that shouldn't be an injecting, then I know some non-medic injectors that shouldn't be injecting. I think if the whole industry is regulated and we're all under we all have to perform to one governing body, then we all know what the fuck we're doing, right? Yeah, exactly. And then I worked for regulator for a lot of years, so I worked for a regulator for about 13 years. And you were in the medical industry, right? Yeah, in the medical industry. And I think that it's only right that something as invasive as injectables and all the rest of it is under the same level of scrutiny as some other things. Um, because at the end of the day it's people's faces and it's about safety, and if you aren't safe, then you know. The only thing with this is that I worry that it will the ones who are already rogue and have got basically it's reckless, they're it's recklessness, and if you're operating like that, you're not doing it because you you're clearly not worried about what you're gonna do. You're in it for the money, you're just taking as much money as you can because you don't care, and it's those people that I think will drive them underground even more. Yeah, I completely agree. I mean it won't stop them. You find that a lot, don't you? There's a very famous woman who has been doing bluffs and other procedures. Chop chop lady. I don't know, but it sounds about right. Yeah, um, and she I think the problem is she is in her home country, she's qualified. She's qualified. It's just that in this country she isn't, and so that's given her the confidence to come over here, treat people. Um, and I think you've seen that more and more. People think that these things don't happen in the UK, but they do, they do happen all the time. Yeah, um, but for people like that, they're they're kind of not regulated at all. No, because she I mean she is a doctor, but over here she's she's not on the register because she's she's not registered. She's not there's a whole process for if you are an overseas doctor and you come over here, you have to get registration. You have to be able to show that you are fit to practice medicine. And that's like if you go to the States or Dubai or somewhere, you need to be a medic over there, and you have to just because you're a doctor over here, doesn't then give you the license to then inject over it in America and the same with Dubai and whatnot. Um so what do you think then um about going overseas? Well, but as Richard's works was gonna bring me on to, which is what I find quite wild when you see injectors and you know they're not medic and they're holding clinics in places like Dubai in America, and I always just think, How the fuck are you doing that? Yeah, how are you doing that? Yeah, like are you over there and you're working under a doctor? And I don't know, I don't I don't know how they're doing it. No, I would be really worried, especially like places like Dubai, I'd be like, I can't do that, I'm gonna be arrested. Yeah, thrown into prison for like 30 years or something. Yeah, you don't want to mess around with Dubai, do you? You do not want to mess around. Um, but what so a lot of people over here feel priced out of surgery, of injectables, of you know, some really expensive treatments, and then they'll go to places like Lithuania, Poland, Turkey. Turkey is obviously what the one that's the most famous for going and having um a facelift or a tummy tuck or whatever. What do you think? What are your thoughts? I think if you want to it it's it's it's riskier, isn't it? Because in the in the UK we our standards and regulations are so much higher. So that's obviously another reason why the price is higher. Obviously, the rent is higher if you go to like Harley Street or whatnot, you're paying for the rents and all sorts goes into it. Um so I think like it's it's up to you, isn't it? Like, if you want to do that, that's that's that's on your own risk, but you need to do your own research. But if it goes wrong, then you're own your own. Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, you took that risk. I have I have a lot of patients that did you see that lady that had was it um did she have the dental work done? She lost her nose. Yes. That was Turkey. I feel really sorry for her. Uh that was Turkey, I think. And but this is the problem, I suppose. Are we seeing like the one bad example? Or is it just I mean, I've got loads of clients that have been to turkey surgery and they all have they all rate it. They've all on saying that as well. I I had um so with my teeth, I have had veneers and invisalign for like four years. I've always had any work I've had done, I've had done in the UK. Yes, it's way more expensive, but my teeth don't look like turkey teeth. No. And there is nothing worse than that bright white, thick smile. Yeah, it's almost like they're all like uh custom coffee, aren't they? Yeah, yeah. Like everyone's white in your t-shirt. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I know people say now it's different, and you get to choose the shut the the shape and this, that, and the other. But I watched a thing the other day and they were literally like there was all these different like rows of teeth, and they were like, Oh, well, I'll have that one, that shape, and that. Whereas when my teeth were done, every single tooth was carved to my mouth. Yeah, yeah. You know, that was that was bespoke. Yeah, which is how it should be. Yeah, with treatments, that's how they should be. They should be bespoke to the individual, yeah, and not like for instance Botox. Well, so when I trained, I had to have six months needling experience before I could even go on a Botox on a filler course. So I had to do phribosomy for six months, and I also had two my Botox course was two weeks long. Good, two weeks like now, people are training in a day and they're getting like 50 million certificates. Like, how can you be competent in that? I think what's happening there is they're teaching injection patterns, okay, right, but I don't think they're understanding the muscles, the anatomy. And so you're gonna you're gonna get you're gonna get into problems really quick and you don't understand the way that the face moves, yeah, the way that one muscle interacts with another muscle, you're not gonna understand how to deal with complications. And not only that, then you've also got on the other side of it, not only are people doing these ultra-fast, what they what do they call them? The fast track training courses, they're doing these training courses. Then the people who are delivering, not all of them, by the way, then some of the people who's delivering the training courses have been on a fast track training course themselves and they've not even been qualified a year. Yeah, that's the scary thing. That's the scary thing because you've got people who are probably lacking in knowledge in the first place. Technique, skill, experience, yeah, all of it. Yeah, it's and again, that is reckless, like that is ego-led recklessness, and that recklessness is what gives the industry a bad name. Um, and that's where you get some really shocking shit results and some horror stories from. Because you're ignorant, you're ignorant to the risks, yeah. And that's where regulation needs to come in, and that's that's that's where I think I'm I'm so happy that we're going there because I think one frustration for me is you know, what we do is not easy. No, we every single day go into clinic, we're dealing with women with insecurities and men with insecurities, there's an emotional toll of that, so we're kind of like therapists, yeah, and then at the same time, we're dealing with um prescription oiling medication, needles, injecting things into people's faces. It is hard, and then when on top of it, you're working in an industry that doesn't have the credibility that it's so deserves because you hear about the bad examples and not the good. Yeah, for me, when we've got regulation, it will I can feel like I can breathe again because it's like what we do is just so hard, and we do a lot of us do a really good job, yeah. And sometimes it's just like um like a hierarchy, and I get it, like the injector who does so I do my own Botox and microneedling and skin boosters, etc. But I have um an injector that does my filler for me because I just think I am not going to get my face symmetrical doing that on myself, and and I see a doctor I've seen him for years, I've seen medics, I've seen non-medics, like I'll see whoever I who is good for me, you know. Um, but there is this real with some people a real hierarchy in the industry when it should also come down to experience. Yeah, and I think what what I didn't realise way back when I started was a lot of the people who are doing well in this industry are not necessarily good injectors, they're good marketers. Interesting. And I think one thing that really is a bugbear of mine, and I had a client recently, I have to be careful about this, but she has been a patient of mine for a while, and she said, Faye, I hope you don't mind, but someone's reached out and said, I'll give you free Botox, and I will also pay you if you come and do some promotion for our clinic. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna do it, but I love you, I'm gonna come back to you after. I don't want to move away from you, but that to me is wild. Yeah, but it's disingenuous, and I've never ever done that. Like she's been she's being upfront with you. She's but a gorgeous woman, she thank you for coming to me and I think it yeah, it's because she because she wants to keep you, yeah. She respects me, and I like and I like the fact that she's upfront about it, she's not been shady behind your back. No, no, but on the other side of it to her followers, it's a bit disingenuous, you know. Well, yeah, because I just think I'm the one really that's been treating you that's made your voice so lovely. Yeah, yeah. Can we talk can we talk about how when someone gets married we're never when they're really on the list? It's like I'm gonna thank my makeup artists, I'm gonna thank my hair person, my brow lady, my blush lady, my this, my that, we're the dirty secret. We're the dirty little secret, yeah. It's like they're having an affair with us, and this is where I've I've genuinely had patients in where the husbands come in and the wife's said, Look, whatever you do, we've never met before. So I funny enough, I had it the other way around. Um was it at the start of this week? Yeah, Tuesday, I had it the other way around. So I had a new guy come in, and I was like, Oh, does you you know you're just chatting? I was like, Oh, does your wife have anything done? He was like, No. I was like, alright, and he was like, Yeah, and she doesn't know that I get anything done. And I was like, Oh right, okay. Never heard of that one, no, although I do have a client now who I adore, and he comes to me for various things, and he comes to me now more than his wife. He loves it. And do you know what I love about it is the fact that he really owns it, he knows it makes him feel better. It he's like makes it makes him feel great, he feels more confident, his skin is glowing. Why should men not? No, I'm all for it because if you feel better about yourself, it just spills out into all aspects of your life. You're just a nicer person, you're more productive, you feel better in your confidence, yeah. Your relationship will get better, yeah. I'm all for it. So, which treatment do you think makes you feel the best? Always Botox. Always Botox, yeah. That's the one treatment that I couldn't live without. Actually, no hyfu for me. Oh, really? So I just think Botox is so versatile. There's so many things you can do with it. Yeah, it's it's it's I probably would say desert island treatment Botox. Yeah, like my mum, like she won't mind me saying this, we call it her dodgy eye. So she's got like one eye which is smaller than the other, and then when she has a drink or she's tired, it's like I can always tell that she's had a drink, it's the eyes going, and um, and it's even just like one drink. Now I'm saying I, my eyes twitching, but I Botox her eyelid and open it up, and it just makes such a difference, and now she's like, and that for instance, is keeping her off of having a blef. Yes, you know. Well, I use it because I have a snarl, like uh um Elvis, Elvis, and literally, but I hate it, and in pictures, if I don't do it, I'm like this all the time. I look really pissed off, permanently pissed off, and like I I didn't find it soon enough. I can't look back at all pictures. So do you do gummy smile for that or yeah, but just on one side? Oh, gummy smile just on one side, and it just evens out my lips. Nice, yeah. Um, what is the funniest thing that's ever happened in your clinic? Or weirdest thing? Funniest or weirdest thing? I'll have to think on that one. What's yours? I'm gonna think while you tell yours. Recently, the one that springs to mind, she's a gorgeous client, by the way. She's gonna be a little bit more than a little bit. We're gonna have to start this off literally every single time we're gonna talk about anyone. We love you all. Yeah, we do, we do. Um, she's lovely, and she she comes from quite a way to see me. And um, in her last appointment, she turned up with a cat. And I was like, oh, a cat. Yeah, a little kitten um in a box. Yeah, and it was meowing and trying to escape. That is. And I was like, I can't believe I've got a cat in mind then. So normally we say no children. No children. Now we need to say no pets. I've had a sausage dog turn up as well. I've had a sausage dog actually. Yeah. I've had a sausage dog. Um, so yeah, so and then obviously you just have like the odd wild client here and there. I do talk off a ledge. I had a client once, and she is no longer a client because of her behaviour. But she, if it's the first time her having Botox, and I fully go through, like, you're gonna go through all sorts of weird and wonderful things over the next two weeks while this is settling. You might have one eyebrow go up higher than the other one day, the next day it might be the other eyebrow. First of all, you'll think it doesn't work on me. Yeah, this isn't working. Yeah, you'll you might look a bit mental for one day, like it's gonna change every single day. I'm gonna see you in two weeks' time, and we're gonna tweak it if we need to just ride it out. Yeah, just trust the patient. She was ringing me um on Instagram at two o'clock in the morning on a Friday and Saturday night, sending me essays. What's going on with my face? You need to fix this now, da da da. And I'm like, I've told you, I'll give you an aftercare form, you've had an email, you need to wait the full two weeks. Yeah, anyway, she came back after two weeks looking absolutely fine. And she was like, it just needed a tiny tweak, yeah. Yeah, and um she said, Oh, well, what happens now then if if I don't like it? Do I come back? I went, No, you don't come back. She went one, you do not come back. No, see ya, yeah, because you can tell that some some patients are not that it's they're not right fit. It's a bit like when you have a they're not mentally sound to have aesthetic treatments because if you can't cope with that, don't the uncertainty, yeah, don't don't have it done, don't put yourself through it and don't put me through it, yeah. At two o'clock in the morning, yeah. And obviously, you know what that is. She's had a few drinks, yeah, she's she's looking in the mirror, yeah, and she's freaking out. Yeah, but no, I would never do that. No. Well, I think yeah, I think sometimes there are patients that just are not the right fit for you, yeah. Um, and I'm trying to think, I I don't think I've found any yet. I think I've been really lucky. Oh, I know. I think I've been really lucky. Um to be obvious to be honest, though, they're few and far in between. And I do find that it's like you do sort of attract your tribe, you know. Yeah, so 99% of my clients are lovely, yeah, and they all like want a natural look, which I'm like, yeah, I'm here for because that is my vibe. Yeah, natural, undetectable settle work. Yeah. Same, same. What would you say if someone came in and they looked, let's say, not natural, and they looked quite overfilled, a bit inflated. How would you handle that? It's hard because you obviously don't want to say to them, you look ship, you know? Um, and give them a complex. So I think sometimes it's I try to hold off on treatments and be like, let's just do a little bit of Botox before we do any filler and just see how that settles. Um, and I do try to get them into dissolving what I think needs to go first, and then it's just gonna be a long process with that one. Yeah, I think you know, we're holding someone's confidence in our hands, really. Yeah, and what we say sticks. I remember I had a lady who came to see me for the first time, and she came to see me because another injector, a doctor, had gone up to her on a train and said, just so you know, I'm an injector, and you need to have this, this, this, and this. Um, that's not even and that's not quite right, and and went up to her on a pack train. Wow, so unsolicited advice that the poor girl. So she got off the crit the train, cried her eyes out, and then went away. That's horrendous. I know. Like, surely that's against okay with conduct, isn't it? Yeah, it's horrific. But I don't know whether he was hoping that she would say, Oh, okay, and who are you? and I'll come to you. Yeah. But actually, no, like, and all the all the advice that he gave her, he was completely wrong about. He was it was so off. But you hear that all the time in our industry, and there is a clinic that I won't name, and I've had about 20 patients come to me and say that they've left their inters. Does it begin with a C? Does it begin with a C? No, not that one. No. Do you have to write about that? No. Um, yeah. You'll have to tell me that after. Yeah. Um, no, this is someone else. But basically, they all go in and they're given, they all come out with the same checklist, and the bill at the end is £3,000. What? But they're made to feel so shit about their faces that I think it's just like feel like you're so terrible, you better have this done. Yeah. Yeah. You're beyond repair so you spend three grand. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And then they'll come to me and I'm like, you barely need any work. Yeah. You're stunning. If anything, I think we're quite similar because if anything, I'm like talking people out of having done. Like, less is more, always. And like, let's just do a little bit and see how that settles. Let's see how you respond to that. See how you feel. Because I think when you try and do too much at once, too soon. Yeah. It's I think that's where you end up with overfilled. Because, like I said to you before, it can be addictive. The fact that you can have a complex about something, like we talked about liquid vineplasty. You can have a complex about something, it's really got you down, you're feeling insecure, and you go in, and 20 minutes later, yeah, that thing that's been bothering you. What happens is that you then stop looking at that, and then you notice something else. Yeah, and then you get on that slippery slope. Yeah. And I find that a lot with patients who are first-time Botoxers. Uh yeah, they keep like what it is, is for instance, I like to let my Botox fully wear off so the muscles come back to life because I like to do a brow lift. So then when I do a brow lift, my muscles are working to do the lift. Whereas if you there's nothing wrong with this, by the way, if you're the sort of person that wants to have your face completely frozen all the time, then you come in every 12 weeks and keep on top of it. That's fine, it just depends how you want to look personally. But I think people, when it's their first time having Botox and they get that little bit of movement come back, and they're like, Oh my god, it's all gone. Yeah, yeah, it's more off, yeah, it didn't last very long at all. And it's like, no, that's not the problem. That's not that's how it is, that's how it works. Like week seven, week eight, you those muscles start coming back to life again, and you should start to see some movement. And a lot of the people you come to meet are people who are probably cautious, nervous of filler, want to kind of try it but are not sure, and then they'll kind of do one thing and they'll go from being quite, I want it to look really natural, barely anything, to I want I want I want it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like you don't need anything. No, and that's where we have to step in and say, Hold on, yeah. And I think sometimes if that's where we might lose clients because we're like, no, hang on, because you need to have patience in this game as well. Like as a client, you need to have patience and let things settle, let things adjust, and then let's have a look at some other stuff. Um, and I think if they want, they're just seeing stuff on Instagram and social media and they want those results overnight. And what do you do when people come in and and so say they're booked in for lips, and then they come in and they they bring a picture of a celebrity's lips. Yeah, I'm just telling the truth. Yeah, I'm like, no, it's not gonna happen. Like her lips are like that because she's naturally got that lip shape, or yeah, she's had her lips done six times over the last three years. You know, you're starting from zero, you've got completely different lip shape, you know. Yeah, it's it's people's expectations, isn't it? Yeah, it's like going in for a facelift and saying that you want to come out looking like Christianna. Well, she does look a little crazy. She does. She looks younger than her daughter. She looks phenomenal. Yeah. Phenom but hands give her away a little bit. Oh, talking of hands, that's one of your icks, isn't it? Yeah, so I do have a little ick um about overly feminine male hands. Yeah, I've never even noticed this. And then I said to you, well, it must be a pen pusher. I've never heard of that. I'd never heard of a pen pusher. But now that you've explained it to me, so a pen pusher is someone who doesn't do manual job job. So Michael Esper, basically, he's a pen pusher. But he doesn't have overly feminine hands. That's good for him. It is it's good for me. Anyway, I think we need to wrap this one up. So we have spoken about the good, the bad and the ugly in the clinic, in the clinic, in the industry. Um I'd love to know your thoughts. Like, if you have had an experience and you maybe it hasn't been a good experience, or you've got an injector who you love and she's now becoming your best friend because you trust me. I love that. Yeah, yeah. I have so many friends now that started out. My treatment couch is like a therapy couch, and obviously what's said in that room stays in that room. It's like it's like a proper safe space, you know. And we'll be the first ones to hear about divorce. We'll be the first ones to hear about birth, everything. Pregnancies, yeah. It's like each week is the next instalment. Yeah, especially when I've got like quite a few clients who are who are gonna start IVF or are going through IVF, and they're like, I'm booking in, but I might need to cancel. Yeah, right, it's absolutely fine. Yeah, like I hope you do have to cancel, you know, like in the nicest possible way. Yeah. Oh, I know that's the best bit about our job. Yeah. So if you've got any good experiences, bad experiences, just experiences, then email us, tell us. Oh, we might read some out actually. Yeah, that'd be a good one. Yeah. Read some out and just share some of your experiences. Yeah, shout out to your injector. The unsorther is in your life. Yeah. For once we will actually be named. Are we naming your injector? Oh, yeah, I see Dr. Rob. Um he is on Harley Street. Yes. And my I forgot to I forgot to shout out, and I always pay full price for my treatments, by the way. So do you. So we don't give shout outs to people that don't deserve them. No, I pay, I do not go in there and expect him to give me a discount because I'm paying, I'm not paying for his product and paying for his time and his expertise. Yeah. And my designer vagina was done by Dr. Carlo Ravas at Signature Clinic. Nice. So there you go. Yeah. On that note, we will love you and leave you and see you on the next one. See you soon!