Feral Nightmares
A true crime and supernatural podcast hosted by Taye and Binks
Feral Nightmares
Almost Home
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You’ve probably heard the Kitty Genovese story as a punchline about human indifference: “38 people watched and nobody called the police.” That line is everywhere, and it’s also wildly misleading. We walk through what actually happened in Kew Gardens, Queens in the early morning hours of March 13, 1964, and why a case with real fear, real confusion, and real attempts to help got flattened into a neat headline. Along the way, we talk about the pop culture pipeline that kept the myth alive, from a famous movie monologue to decades of casual retelling.
We also put Kitty back at the center. She’s not just a name attached to the bystander effect. She’s a smart, funny, ambitious woman building a life with her partner Marianne Zolanko in a pre-Stonewall world where being openly queer is dangerous and being treated fairly by police is far from guaranteed. That context shows up in the aftermath too: the way Marianne is questioned, the way the investigation loses focus, and the way the media turns a tragedy into a morality play.
Then we get practical. We break down what social psychology gets right and wrong about bystander apathy, why crowds freeze, and how to intervene safely by reducing ambiguity and giving direct instructions like “You, call 911.” We also trace how this case helped push public pressure that contributed to the creation of the 911 emergency system and how emergency response evolved into today’s location-enabled services. If this episode changes how you think about responsibility, community safety, and who gets remembered, share it with a friend, subscribe, and leave a review so more people find us.
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Welcome To The Nightmare
SPEAKER_00Hi there. Hi, and welcome to the nightmare. I'm Tay. I'm Binx. And wait, we didn't even say that. We didn't do that on the last one. Oops. Oops. You know what? We mentioned we were on some fuck shit, so we are still on some fuck shit. Because it's the same day. Yeah, like 20 minutes, not even 20 minutes. Yeah. I don't even know how long the last record it was. I don't either. You know what? We're here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We exist.
SPEAKER_01Hi. How's your day?
SPEAKER_03Oh, it is a good day to like cuddle up on the couch and listen to a podcast. It is. Or watch it on our YouTube channel. Or, you know, just do anything that involves us. Right. Let us be the main characters in your day.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I feel so bad for them. Look, if we are ever the main characters in someone's day.
SPEAKER_03You know we're the main characters in people's day, like every day at work, right?
SPEAKER_00We entertain. We are just main characters, period. We are. We really are. And then people get mad at me when I don't know the names of the um background characters. No, someone be like, oh, so and so. I'm like, who? Oh, so and so. Who?
SPEAKER_03No, the tall guy with the the thing and that. Oh, yeah, that guy. Yeah. Yeah, that person. Honestly, I don't learn their name until they've been there for six months. And usually I'm too deep in to ask what their name is. So I just have to wait for somebody else to say it. And then you get the situation with Alan slash Alex. Who? The guy that worked between me up on the platform with me. Oh! The one that like messed up his knee and hasn't been there in a while. Oh yeah. Yeah. His real name is Alex. We have been calling him Alan for six months. He didn't correct us. He did not correct us. So you know what? That's on him. It really is.
SPEAKER_00Alright. I am a sofo winning.
SPEAKER_03Alright, you know what? There we go.
SPEAKER_00There's mine. You okay. You are not going to start.
SPEAKER_03Am I going to start tallying on this one so my husband doesn't have to do it? Yes.
SPEAKER_00Oh no, I already told him that he was gonna have to get it.
SPEAKER_03He's gonna have to do it on the last one.
SPEAKER_00So you can give away your microphone is that I'm gonna be winning this. Shut up.
SPEAKER_03Let me let me move the flame over there. All right. I'm ready. Are you ready? Okay.
The Movie Scene That Lied
SPEAKER_03What is this is a a big case. Okay. A lot of people have heard about it. You mentioned it a little bit. I mentioned it a little bit. The thing is, is a lot of people have heard about it, but what they know is wrong. So I'm gonna take you back to the first time I heard about it. All right. Ooh, a little antidote. A little antidote. So in 1999, there was a movie released, written by Troy Duffy. It was called Boondock Saints. I have never seen it. You really need to watch it. I need to watch a lot of it. It is a cult classic. Because it was released in theaters and then very quickly pulled because of events in April of 1999 that I will eventually cover. So basically, Columbine happened, and a movie about vigilante justice was not what needed to be in theaters. Yeah. But it had an amazing cast. He had Sean Patrick Flannery, Norman Reedus before the Daryl Dixon days. Well, I kind of want to see what he looked like before the Daryl Dixon days. Oh, yeah. Yeah, watch uh Blade. He was in that one too. Oh yeah. Willem Defoe as a gay FBI agent. He dresses a drag. Oh no, like he he's like the straightest gay man you'll ever see. He does have one little like alluded to love scene. It's fantastic. You gotta watch it. Billy Connolly and David Della Rocco. Funniest part is David Della Rocco's character is named David Della Rocco.
SPEAKER_00They call him Rocco. Okay, now that they say that, I just get like the clip from Elmo like hating on a fucking rock. And then this Elmo just Anyway.
SPEAKER_03So this movie, and I didn't see it until I think it had been out a couple of years before I got to see it. And my friend group at the time, we were all You had friends? I had friends, yes. Late teens, early 20s. It was actually suggested to me by a coworker who's my age that I am now. He was like, You guys gotta watch this movie. It's great. And it turned into a tradition for several years that on St. Patrick's Day we would go and buy beer and sit in my living room and watch this movie. Anytime somebody hadn't seen it, dude, we're fucking watching it. All right. So Boondock Saints is the story of twin brothers, Connor and Murphy McManus. And the relevance to this case is really like the first five minutes, if that. But it sets up the whole storyline. So I want you to close your eyes. And just listen. Your eyes are open. I need you to close. I know. Just listen to my descriptions. Very relaxing. Right. All right. So we open South Boston, St. Patrick's Day. Billy Connolly's doing a lovely voiceover. Sounds like a prayer. I believe it is part of the prayer they use. And it pans to a church.
SPEAKER_00Look, I just got Madonna stuck in my head.
unknownOh my God.
SPEAKER_00It's like a little prayer down a minute. Okay.
SPEAKER_03So it pans to a Catholic church. Still not getting the Madonna out of my head. That's okay, because you'll see why it still works. And the priest is doing our Father, who art in heaven, prayer. Yeah. And it's panning over the audience. Yeah, or the the congregation. Sorry. I mean, Catholicism really is a show. And as the Monsignor gets up to give his sermon and thanks this young priest for driving all the way across town to be with him this morning. Oh my God, across town. Right. Every time I hear that, thank you for coming all the way up from across town. I'm like, I understand it's Boston. But come on. But come on. I drive across town to go see my mom.
SPEAKER_00I'll drive across town to go to work.
SPEAKER_03You drive across town to come see me. So as the Monsignor begins his sermon, the camera goes to two men kneeling in prayer. Now you see why Madonna works. They are dressed in identical black peacoats, black t-shirts, blue jeans. They have matching tattoos. And as the Monsignor speaks, you see these two gentlemen get up, walk up to the altar, and the Monsignor starts speaking about the murder of Kitty Genevese. And as he speaks, he goes on to say how you know many witnessed her stabbing and her murder, and her murderer was walking away, and that no one called the police. And that this happened in broad daylight. And as he's doing this, you've got the brothers are kissing the feet of Jesus on the crucifix, crossing themselves, and walking out of the church. And the last line you get from the Monsignor is we must all fear evil men, but there's another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. And as they step out into the daylight in in perfect sync, light their cigarettes. Can I open my eyes now? Yeah, you can open your eyes now.
SPEAKER_00Like I was like kind of like just I I'm trying to remember.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Hang on, I gotta move my my poster over here to my right hand. You were about to hit it again, weren't you? No. So yeah, this is this is the first time I've heard about it, right? Yeah. And then 20 years later, I hear a podcast about it.
SPEAKER_02And basically, everything that is known is wrong.
Kitty’s Life Before The Headlines
SPEAKER_03So I'm gonna go ahead and I'm going to tell you about Catherine Kitty Genovese, who was like a badass boss bitch. We located badass boss bitch. I love a good badass boss bitch. So yeah, she went by Kitty.
SPEAKER_00She was born in Brooklyn, New York. How come I feel like anyone who like goes by Kitty is like secretly like a boss bitch? And like so because like Kitty Foreman from like Right.
SPEAKER_03And every time I would rate Kitty, I kept thinking about her. So she was born in Brooklyn, New York, July 7th, 1935. She was the oldest of Vincent and Rachel Genevese's five children. Okay. You know, in high school at Prospect Heights High, she was voted the class cut up.
SPEAKER_00What is that?
SPEAKER_03Class clown. It was 1953. I know the lingo's off for you. And so she graduates in 1953. She's 18, you know, she's an adult. Yeah. And shortly after she graduated, her mother actually witnessed a murder out on the street. It was like, pack your shit, we're leaving. And she and Vincent moved four of their five children to New Canaan, Connecticut. Or New Canaan, sorry. But Kitty stayed in New York because she's grown. And she was very briefly married during this time, too. Brief marriage. Don't even know his name.
SPEAKER_00It was like, oh hey, and you're gone.
SPEAKER_03Right. So she's working in New York, starts out working as a secretary at an insurance company and ends up working nights at a bar called Ev's 11th Hour. Now, Kitty thrives there because she is a cut-up. She's, you know, very sociable, very extroverted.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And a good personality characteristics to have as a bartender. Yeah. You know, she wasn't exactly friends with everybody, but she was friendly. Everybody loved being around her. She can get along with people. Right. So Kitty, like I said, she's thriving at this job. She starts out as a bartender and ends up as the manager running this bar. Right. Like I said, she's being a badass. All right. Now. Especially like in the 50s. Yeah. 50s into the 60s. Now in 1963. So 10 years later, she's 28. You know, and I I wanna preface this. This is pre-stonewall in. Okay. So Kitty's got a secret. And is it her roommate? Yes, her roommate. Well, in March of 1963, she meets Marianne Zalanko at a nightclub in the Greenwich Village.
SPEAKER_00Ooh.
SPEAKER_03And they fall madly in love.
SPEAKER_00Oh, good for her.
SPEAKER_03You know, Kitty would take Marianne to Connecticut to see her family, and it was all this is Kitty's friend. This is Kitty's roommate. Marianne would later say, like her family knew, but they did not acknowledge the very 1960s. Now, see, you know, they another thing is because this was pre-stonewall.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And someday I am going to cover the stonewall in. And I am definitely going to be here for it. Right. And we will be covering Marsha P. Johnson. We're going to be covering because I swear to God, the courthouse, as soon as I figure out where I gotta go to buy one, there will be a brick in front of our local courthouse, Marsha P. Johnson. So I encourage anybody to do that. If you're able to somewhere that does like commemorative bricks and stuff, and you are an ally, Marsha P. Johnson. Marcia P. Johnson.
SPEAKER_00Look. The fucking whole like pride and that was started with Stonewall. It started with Stonewall. And it was built off the back of trans people, and especially like trans women of color. And don't you ever fucking forget forget that. Right.
SPEAKER_03And I I love, you know how I am. Yeah. I love everybody, unless you give me a reason not to. So, you know, the couple's madly in love. Yeah. You know, Marianne is a self-proclaimed introvert, very quiet, very shy. Kitty's an extrovert. But Kitty, you know, Kitty's got dreams. So like a black cat golden retriever, kind of? Kind of. But they they balanced each other. Yeah. Right? As all good relationships do, you have to have that balance. As all things should be. So Kitty had dreams, right? She eventually wants to own her own, I believe, Italian restaurant. And she's telling Marianne, like, girl, you're a fantastic artist. Pursue that. Pursue that dream. We're gonna live our dreams too.
SPEAKER_00This seems like a quintessential like lesbian couple. Right.
SPEAKER_03Well, they end up moving into a second floor apartment in Kew Gardens, Queens. And this area is known to be safe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, and they start building their life together. And I remember, if I remember correctly, because for the life of me, my phone hated me the last two weeks while I was trying to research this. And I was trying to listen to the morbid coverage of Kitty. It would not download for nothing. Like I would be at home, download it, get to work, it would not be there. On pissy, I don't know what my phone's doing, but whatever. Find it. I'm about to.
SPEAKER_00Also, when did you actually settle on this? Because I knew like at the beginning of the week, you were still trying to figure I mean, like, I wanted to do a lot more research. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There's books that were written that I want to read. Yeah, I guess I want to read these and this. I ain't got time for that right now.
SPEAKER_00That's why I do audiobooks.
SPEAKER_03Well, I can go to the library and pick out the book. I prefer an actual book.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but you also know me.
SPEAKER_03Right. So, you know, I if I'm remembering correctly, because it has been a while since I was actually able to listen to their, you know, coverage of it. And Marianne would sit up in their apartment and paint, and Kitty would sit there drinking a cup of, you know, tea or coffee and reading a book. Like on it, that's just that's how they would spend their time together. That just sounds so peaceful. It does, right? So they they move into these garden these apartments. And I actually found a picture of the apartment building today. And it is adorable.
SPEAKER_00Like, what are we talking about?
SPEAKER_03Like, hang on. Let me. Because I found it right before you got here.
SPEAKER_01Really?
SPEAKER_03Yes. Nice.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that is fucking cute. I don't know if you can see it. No, you can't. We can have Mike like edit in a picture. I'll send that to Mike.
SPEAKER_03But yes, like, you know, adorable little apartment building. Yeah. Okay. And you know, they started building their life together, which at the time, being queer was still illegal. Yeah. You know, cops are busting up bars. Any if if they thought it was a gay bar, they're busting it up. Kitty's, they're still encouraging each other. They're still, you know, madly in love. Yeah. And they got a year together. Almost exactly one year.
The Night Of The Attack
SPEAKER_03Because on March 13th, 1964, Kitty worked the closing shift at Ev's. Marianne had gone out bowling with her friends. And you know, Kitty was supposed to come back in in the morning and open.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So she shuts down the bar at 2 30 in the morning.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Closes up, goes out and gets in her red fiat, drives home. Well, she's sitting at a stoplight, and she is spotted by a man in a white Chevy Corvair. Kitty does not see him. So she drives home.
SPEAKER_00The man follows us.
SPEAKER_03The man follows her. She uh pulls into the parking lot of the Long Island Rail Station. Because that was the parking lot for her building.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03At this point's about 3.15 in the morning. Are you noticing the time discrepancy between what old Monsignor said and what time? Broad daylight is what the Monsignor says telling this story, right? 3 15 in the morning. 3 15 in the morning, what are you doing? I'm dead ass asleep. Well unless we've had our wake up at the witch's hour. Yeah. We're asleep. For the most part.
SPEAKER_00The general population is going to be asleep at 3 15 in the morning. I always get woken up like sometime around 3 o'clock in the morning. So Kitty Parks. Yeah. In this lot. Oh, you're talking about Monsignor from like the movie. The movie, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I was like, okay, when did Amonsini get The Monsignor from the movie in broad daylight? People watched as she was murdered. Yeah. No. Wrong. We'll get you'll get more into it. I'm gonna get more into it. And unfortunately, I am so pissed, but I apparently got to get a subscription to the New York Times. Yeah, I didn't feel like it. I did find an LA Times article though. For free. Anyway, so about 3 15 in the morning, she parks.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Gets out of her fiat, her little red sports car. Because you know, she's a boss bitch. We love that for her. We love that for her. She actually, at one point, and I forgot to put this in my notes and I just remembered it. Kitty got arrested. For being a bookie. A bookie? She was taking bets at the bar she was working at. Got arrested. So when they were like publishing her picture, the newspapers were using her mugshot. Nice. Instead of like a picture provided by her family. They used her mugshot and they cropped out the you know Queen's fucking police department. So here's the thing. This is a safe neighborhood, right? Yeah. She's lived here for a little bit. She's made some friends in the neighborhood. And the parking lot is 100 feet from her building.
SPEAKER_00Ain't far at all.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Not at all. She should be safe. She's done this dozens of times. Coming home late at night, walk into her building, no problems.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, the man in the white Chevy Corvier was a shitbag by the name of Winston Mosley. He parks his car at the corner, gets out, armed with a large hunting knife, and starts approaching Kitty. Kitty starts running. Unfortunately, he did catch her. And in the middle of the street, he stabbed her twice in the back. At that point, Kitty screams out, Oh my god, he stabbed me. Help me. And this commotion actually woke up multiple neighbors in not just her building, but adjacent buildings. Now A couple of were like looked out the windows, like, it's a domestic. We don't touch that. She probably probably got into a fight at the bar, it's late, you know, whatever. But one man by the name of Robert Moser opens his window, leans out, and shouts, let that girl alone. Scares Mosley away. Mosley runs back to his car, hops in, drives off. And Kitty, who is gravely injured, manages to drag herself into the rear door of her apartment building and starts calling out for her neighbor Carl Ross because she's very close to his apartment door.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Carl Ross is a punk ass bitch. Oh, what do you do? So, like they're they're friends, they're neighbors, and he's also a gay man.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So they got like the whole community thing going, right? Yeah. He is, and this came from Mary Ann, scared of everything. He was often scared to leave his apartment. So kind of like agoraphobe? Not necessarily an agoraphobe. He was very mistrustful of the police, which at that time fully understand. At this time. At this time, right? So she's yelling for Carl for help. Yeah. Because he's the closest friend. And I literally put in my notes, and he's a bitch. Because Carl opens his door multiple times, sees Kitty. Even apparently opens his door again when Mosley comes back. So after Robert Mozart yelled at him, Mosley, you know, runs, gets in his car, leaves. Yeah. He comes back ten minutes later. Originally he'd had, you know, he had a hat on. When he comes back, he just put on a different hat. And of course it's it's a 10-minute time span. He then proceeds to start walking down the street looking for open doors. You know, apartment building, storefronts, whatever. And he finds Kitty. And in the stairwell, just feet outside of Carl Ross's door. And according to Mosley, that door opened at least once while he was stabbing, raping, and robbing Kenny Genovese. That punk ass bitch. Right. Carl Ross called his friend who lived in a different county. Hey man, this is going on what should I do? Call the cops. He's not gonna call the cops himself. So he climbs out his window up the fire escape to another apartment and wakes that neighbor up, tells them what's going on. They run to the apartment of Sophia Ferrer, who is one of Kitty's very good friends in the building. Sophia was a you know a stay-at-home mom. They would meet up and have toast and coffee in the mornings.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like they had their little girl, you know, chats, always had their apartment doors open for each other. They'd literally just walk in and be like, bitch, get this shit. You know, great friends. So this neighbor goes and gets Sophia, tells her Kitty's being attacked. Sophia wakes up her husband, call the police. Her and this woman run downstairs. At this point, Mosley's gone. And Sophia has to like force the door open because Kitty's in front of it. The door was locked from the outside. She forces the door open, scoops Kitty into her lab and is holding her, telling her help is on the way. And waited there and held her until the ambulance gets there. So like I said, I refer to her as a real one. Because yeah, I know I hit that.
SPEAKER_00No, no, I'm not even talking about that. Like, what were the names?
SPEAKER_03Sophia and Sophia and the other woman, I could not find her name. Nah, they they'll they were the real like those are women. That's a woman's woman right there. No, but the whole Ross, that's his name. Carl Ross. Carl with the K. Yeah. Like, oh, he's not done. He's not done. He's not done in this. So while all of this is gone, 35 minutes, two separate locations of this attack. A 10-minute window where she was able to get to relative safety, right? Now, you had people from the apartment across the street that called after the first attack.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You had a neighbor in her building call that wasn't, you know, dealing with Carl.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Then you had Sophia's husband. So at least three calls went out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There could be more, but there could be more, could be less. The problem is, is in 1964, to call the police, if you didn't have the number memorized, like the precinct, you know, number memorized. Not just 911. Not just 911 did not exist. When did it exist? I've got that in my notes. Don't worry. Oh, thank you. So, you know, you had to literally go get your phone book, look up your precinct's phone number, call in, you know, get the receptionist dispatch or whatever, tell them what's going on. And if all you're doing is hearing, or you just kind of see it, but you can't see that this man's just stabbed the shit out of this woman in the street, yeah. You're gonna be like, oh, it looks like, you know, there's a couple out here arguing, they're fighting, whatever. So once the call was, you know, the call that got through of this woman has been stabbed, she's bleeding out in the stairwell, the police were there within minutes. Yeah. Okay. Well, sadly, Kenny passed away, or not Kenny. Kitty passed away in the ambulance.
SPEAKER_00All I could think when he said is, Oh my god, you killed Kenny! Yeah. Yeah. Um, I feel bad for Kenny, but like at the same time. So like, no, that's just fucking tragic. Right.
SPEAKER_03And it it really is.
SPEAKER_00So no, and Carl, he knew that he knew that his friend was stabbed.
SPEAKER_03Right. But he was being very selfish in his behavior. Yeah. Which at times I can kind of get. But this is he he literally was thinking about his own safety as a gay man in New York where it's illegal to be gay. But at the same time, you're watching your friend, your friend bleed out and die, being raped and murdered feet from your front door.
SPEAKER_00And you'd open the door and looked. And looked. Yeah. No, that's fuck Carl. Fuck Carl.
SPEAKER_03But, you know, based on wounds to Kitty's arms and hands, she put up a hell of a fight. She was not gonna go down without fighting. So, you know, as I said, several calls were made to the police reporting the attack in the various stages.
SPEAKER_00And didn't Carl like see it like before like before she came in?
SPEAKER_03Potentially, no, Carl didn't see it before, but he potentially saw her right before Mosley found her again.
SPEAKER_00And couldn't like got her inside of his own?
SPEAKER_03Didn't he had the opportunity to help and didn't. And even her, her baby brother, who she was very, very close with. His name is Bill, we'll talk about him in a little bit, said he could have saved my sister's life.
Aftermath And Police Missteps
SPEAKER_03So witnesses saw Mosley flee the scene in a white Chevy. Okay. Now Marian was woken up at 4 a.m. by the police notifying her that her roommate had been murdered and they needed her to go ID the body. So she does. Absolute devastated. So by 7 a.m., when Detective Mitchell Sang shows up to question a, you know, question Mary Ann, she is fucking hammered.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because Carl came to console her and brought booze. Fuck Carl. I mean, I get it. But while he's trying to question Marianne and like get information, anything that could be pertinent to this case, Carl is interrupting. He's being like very intrusive. So they ended up arresting Carl for disorderly conduct. And he was one of the original main suspects because she was murdered just outside his door.
SPEAKER_00Wait, what do you mean by being intrusive?
SPEAKER_03Like he was very combative. Like they weren't even talking to him. They were talking to Marianne. He's there to comfort his friend after, you know, her partner has been murdered, which he saw and did nothing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Other than going to other women. I assume he kind of left it out while he told. I have no idea. But he's there consoling her with booze. And the cops trying to ask her questions. Trying to solve this. Trying to solve this. Like, okay, with is there anyone, you know.
SPEAKER_00But he can't get past his own shit.
SPEAKER_03Get Carl keeps interrupting. Yeah. Carl keeps injecting himself in his bullshit. So he gets arrested for disorderly conduct.
SPEAKER_00As he should.
SPEAKER_03And becomes like number one suspect. Okay. Now, hours later, and I this is exactly how I wrote this. Hours later, homicide dicks. I mean, detectives, that's what they were called. Yeah. John Carroll and Jerry Burns show up and interrogate Marianne for six hours. Because at that point it got out that they weren't just roommates. They were very special friends. Very special friends. So they interrogated her for six hours, focusing on their sex life. Very inappropriate questioning. Yeah. So, you know, at this point, you know, even the neighbor said that when they were, you know, questioning anybody seeing anything, there was a preoccupation with the gay lifestyle. Yeah. So good news is shortly, very quickly, Winston Mosley was arrested on a burglary charge. He was caught, this time in broad daylight, helping the homeowner move while they weren't home. And loading a television into his white Chevy Corvair. So the arresting officer was like, White Chevy, you know. That matches this homicide.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And calls in, you know, the dicks, Carolyn Burns again. Mosley confesses, not only to the murder of Kitty Genevese, but two more. He had brutally raped and murdered a teenage girl in her bedroom down the hall from her sleeping parents. And he had raped a wife and mother in her living room, stabbing her and setting the house on fire. Oh shit. Husband and kid survived. She didn't. She did not. So he ended up dying in prison in 2016. So fuck him.
SPEAKER_00Fuck them all the way to hell.
SPEAKER_03Fuck all of them. So this is where we get into the second half of this. Okay? Because I didn't want to spend a lot of time on Mosley. Because he's a piece of shit. And everybody's like, but he had a wife and kids.
SPEAKER_00Fucking. Also Fuck him, fuck Carl. Like and like his wait, was it his name, Carl? Carl. Fuck Carl. Like Auntie. So many. Like Sophia and the one other Sophia and the other lady. They did what they did. They're the real ones. They're the real ones. Um even Sophia's husband, like even you know, Robert Moser yelling at him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You know, it's gonna take him a minute to get out of his apartment and down to the street. You don't really know what's going on, be like, hey, you know, get your ass. Dad voice, right?
SPEAKER_00So but the police failed her.
SPEAKER_03Police failed her. The so-called failure. Well, well, the police let their prejudice sidetrack them. Yeah. But Kitty was buried by her family in New Canaan, Connecticut. Okay.
The New York Times “38 Witnesses” Myth
SPEAKER_03And they weren't given a lot of answers. Just over two weeks after her death, the New York Times ran the headline, and this is a snippet of the headline: 37 Who Saw Murdered didn't call the police apathy at stabbing. This was written by Martin Gansberg, a well-respected reporter, journalist, like award-winning journalist. And it's the fucking New York Times. Okay. Now he goes on to, in this article, to contradict the title where he says 37 witnesses to 38. All of the details were heavily exaggerated and distorted. And essentially, what happened is one was quoted, yeah, I heard it, but I didn't, you know, didn't care, whatever. So the thing is, is that a small number of people actually witnessed visually what happened.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Another small amount heard what was happening. And most of them did not know it was an actual murder.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03For the time period, you know, you're not going to step in between a man correcting his woman. That's disgusting. It is disgusting. And also, it was 3 15 in the fucking morning.
SPEAKER_00Most people are gonna be dead asleep. And like for me, at least, whenever I'm asleep, I stay asleep no matter what loud noise.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I can sleep through just about anything but the fan cutting off. Oh, and like you want to see me and Mike both snap away quick, let the power go out, and that fan go off.
SPEAKER_00No, I can sleep through that. I can't sleep through it. Like, you know that automatic sound from like your animals, like that and you're just like, nope. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So and now, side quest real quick. About 10 years ago.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03I worked third shift. So I worked overnight.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'd get home by seven in the morning.
SPEAKER_00Is this before or after you had your after. Okay.
SPEAKER_03She was baby. It was right at actually she had just turned one.
SPEAKER_00Oh.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, 10 years ago. She'll be 11 in a couple weeks. Oh shit. Michael worked second shift. I work thirds. So I'd come home, get cleaned up, you know, take care of her for a little bit until she fell back asleep. Then I'd go to bed. Well I woke up one morning at like 10 30 to my now husband, because we weren't married yet, busting into our bedroom, yelling at me to call 911, somebody has broken into my truck. I got up, grabbed my phone, and I mean dead asleep. Grab my phone, throw on some pants, because I was sleeping in a t-shirt, and go to the front door following him. Because he has already grabbed his firearm from the nightstand, is barefooted in pajama pants, chasing this motherfucker through our yard. Michael's standing on business. Michael is standing on business. One thing I didn't grab, and like I'm on the phone with 911 watching this from my front door because I'm not gonna leave my child alone. And I tell them white male, late 40s, early 50s, grayish brown hair, camo jacket, jeans, brown work boots. He's currently hiding behind my neighbor's house. Cops come everything. I forgot to put my glasses on. So you're like no, I look, I nailed every fucking detail. Despite being blind. Despite being blind. And having literally been shocked awake. That's my superpower. Now, my husband did, you know, chase this guy onto the neighbor's property, which said no trespassing, posted signs. Sadly, he did not get a no trespassing charge. That would have been great. But when he, you know, the cops showed up, he Mike tells him where they're at. He's like, hey, I want to go to my house and put some clothes on because he really was in pajama pants. Yeah. No shirt, nothing, no shoes. Neighbor comes out because all the cops are like at the end of his driveway. What's going on? And then, you know, Mike tells him what's going on. He's like, all right, cool. Walks in his house, comes back out with his holster and his revolver on his hip. And the cops are like dealing with Mike, you know, over to our house, all of this stuff. And the motherfucker comes out of the bushes. And the neighbor draws on his ass and holds him there at gunpoint until the cops come back and just come back over. And like literally yells out, hey, I got him. The detective complimented me on being able to give that detail of a description. Guy got 1129. And you know, so it can happen that you can give accurate information. Yeah. I'm also a very detail-oriented person. So for me, it's easy. But I will tell you, by the time I made it into work at 10 o'clock that night, my husband went from chasing this man with a loaded pistol in his plaid pajama pants to a boustier spiked heels on a ball gag. What? Yeah. We worked in the same factory. So as the story got retold, Mike's like, yeah, I was in my pajamas. I was like, oh, so you had on your spiked heels and your ball gag. You know. Blue collar men are gayer than gay men.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03100%. So Yeah. It's hilarious to watch. But yeah, that's by the time I got into work that night. Nah, they're gayer than I am.
SPEAKER_00I'm just sitting there like.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, Mike said when he happened to look out the door the window of our front door, the guy had already gone through his truck and was looking at my car. And there was a giant rock next to where I parked my car at that house. And all he had to do is pick it up and bash, you know, fucking shower window. Mike learned to lock his doors after that. I I it took me a little bit to break him of leaving the keys in the ignition. Country Boy.
SPEAKER_00So no, I understand Country Boy, but at the same time, I just find that's He didn't grow up like I did.
SPEAKER_03So back to our main story. So like you can it can happen. You can get information, you can get details.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, some people will, some people won't. Some people are gonna want to become involved.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because it's in their nature. I've said it before.
SPEAKER_00Hi. We're nosy.
SPEAKER_03Hi. I'm nosy, but also part of ADHD is injustice, something or other. So you Oh, a strong sense of justice? Yeah, super strong sense of justice. Like you. Cannot stand to see someone treated unfairly, things like that. So, you know, Mr. Rogers said, well, his mother said actually, Mama Rogers, and this paraphrase down to look for the helpers. So when things are going wrong, when there's a disaster or, you know, whatever, look for the people who are helping.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, focus on the good. Michael and I are helpers. You know, Michael and I instant, you know, we're jumping in to help.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, I've literally had to chase him down through the yard of that same house because we'd heard a motorcycle wreck. Motorcycle T-bones and SUV. Dude got up and walked away. I've got the video. At least because we had we ended up having to give that to the guy for insurance and for the police.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because it was kind of a sketchy neighborhood. I mean, the truck had already been broken into. So we had a security camera and we caught the whole thing. He and I were in the backyard, you know, doing yard work. And we heard it. And by the time I made it to the fence, he was already out the street turning around yelling, call 911. I'm on the phone with 911. That's my job. And then while we were waiting for the ambulance to get there and everything, I ran and grabbed our first aid kit. And the bike behind him was his parents. And his mama came up off that bike before it was stopped. So I was like, Your mama, cool. Here's the first aid kit. I'll let you tend your baby. I know he's like 45, but that's your baby. I get it. You know, and we hung out with him until everybody with the trailer came to get the bike. Two hours sitting in our front yard in the shade. But anyway, so there's people out there. This will happen. So even though Gansberg's article was bullshit, the Genevace family believed it. A lot of people believed it. Because why would the New York Times publish something that wasn't right? Respected newspaper, respected journalist. Why would they publish false information? So really and truly, Vincent and Rachel Genevese did not talk about their daughter's murder. The remaining children didn't talk about it. Nobody dealt with their grief properly. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, even though this article had grossly inaccurate information. Yeah. People believed it. People believed it.
How Kitty Helped Create 911
SPEAKER_03And it went on to shape social psychology, pop culture, and actually influenced the creation of 911.
SPEAKER_00Wait, like you mean our show that that no, the 911 emergency system. Hi, I'm stupid. No, I'm smart, but I'm also stupid at the same time.
SPEAKER_03I want to knee just a moment. Because you literally brought, oh, they couldn't just call 911. I completely forgot that. I know I know the my my side quest took a minute. But I was like, don't worry, it's in my notes.
SPEAKER_00Oh, and then as you were talking, boop. I forgot everything. The birds took it. The birds. The birds work for the bo bourgeoisie.
SPEAKER_03So for those of you who knew what I was talking about, unlike my co-host. Oh, fuck all. The 911 Emergency System was created in 1968. It was commissioned by Lyndon B. Johnson as a unified way to get emergency services. So it was 1968. It started so four years after Kitty's murder. In the 1980s, they added where the caller's, you know, landline number and location would pop up on the displays for the operators, you know, very much helping narrow down locations. Yeah. In 1999, the Wireless Communication and Public Safety Act mandated that all cell phones be equipped with GPS and tracking. So that once again, you can pinpoint where the person's calling from.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And also if say somebody's kidnapped, they've got a cell phone, it's on, you can track their phone.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And now, like present day, we've got what they're calling next generation 911, which accepts digital data, pictures, text messages, or basically you can drop a pen straight to the 911 operators. And they can get to you even faster if possible. So, like we we genuinely, although this badass woman lost her life because of these events and because of this bullshit article, we now have something that everyone in the United States uses. Yeah. And 911 was selected because it was easy to remember and easy to dial on a rotary phone. Yeah. You know, because you literally go 9, 1, 1. Yeah, so like I said, shit sucks, but I'm so hung up on the fact that I thought about the TV showing up.
SPEAKER_00You know what? You're not that much better than me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, debatable right now. Yeah, so anyway, because of this article, and it was called the Bystander Apathy or Byster Effect.
Bystander Effect What’s Real
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Usually there were actually lab experiments done by psychologist John Darley and Bib Latane. Hopefully, I didn't fuck that up. I believe in you. Bib is the first name. B-I-B-B. Bib? Yeah. Latine. Latine. That's an A. I don't know. There's a little line over the E. Basically, they did all of these experiments. And it would be something simple like, hey, we're gonna give you this test or like this questionnaire, you fill this out, we're gonna step out of the room. And if it's one person in the room and they're filling it out in a couple minutes, and they pump smoke into the room. So like it's a situation, something's going on. And they would do that with one person, or they would do it with two or four or five, whatever. And they noticed that if it was a single person in the room, within like five, 10 seconds of the smoke entering the room, they would kind of raise an alarm. Yeah. Like open the door. Hey, then you know, whatever. If there was more, you know, two or more people in there, 20 to 30 seconds. And basically it was kind of hive mind of somebody'll say something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, I don't have to be the one to do it. Right. But they did find out that in like serious emergencies, people reacted very quickly. So, you know, seeing a car accident, seeing, you know, someone in distress, even if they're surrounded like a group of people, you know, a large number of people, they're jumping in to help almost immediately. Their brains are quickly assessing this is emergency in help. Yeah. And it was also affected by whether or not there was a male in the group. Apparently, only men can jump in and save somebody, but we have already discussed that with Carl Ross and fuck him. He can he, I mean, he did let the neighbor know. That's the only good thing. He let the neighbor know. That was it. So you can actually take courses online on how to overcome the bystander effect. Am I boring you?
SPEAKER_00No, it's not that. I know it's nap time. It's nap time for both of us. So it doesn't help the fact that like we had a big brunch.
SPEAKER_03We had a very big brunch.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So basically, here's a couple of examples on what to do.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03But you can take like a full course. I cannot remember. Like, you can look it up and they'll have like a full course. But it's basically a personalized request. Like, hey, white shirt, call the cops. You know, reduce ambiguity, yelling out, raised voice, everything going all right, everything okay, draws, you know, especially in a situation like kiddies, draws attention away from the victim. And it's also breaking that, you know, social silence, as they call it, and assuming a total responsibility. Basically going in, you act like the boss, you become the boss.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And just start telling people what the fuck to do.
SPEAKER_00And it's because if there's no one to take charge, people tend to not do shit. Yeah. So I'm almost done.
The Witness Documentary And Marianne
SPEAKER_00Like, I am sorry, like I am truly. You are not boring me. I am interested. We both are tired.
SPEAKER_03I know. We're it's it's rainy. We're tired. So Kitty's youngest brother, Bill, would go on to actually create a documentary called The Witness in the early 2000s, I believe. Because despite their age gap, because he was literally, she's the oldest, he was the youngest. There's like a 12-year age gap. So he was, I want to say like 16 when she died. They were like peas in a pod, close as fuck siblings. And he wanted some answers, especially after it come out that a lot of the things that they over that had they had believed or that had been in that article were wrong. Yeah. So he literally went back to the apartment building and watched a reenactment of his sister's murder. He spoke to Sophia. He had never heard of her. As far as his family knew, his, you know, Kitty had died in that stairwell alone. And I'm gonna say this, and I'm not the only one that believes it, is that had the Genevacy family been given this information, Bill Geneavese's life would have turned out completely different. Because he basically became the guy that I have to act. I have to save somebody because nobody saved my sister. So he joined the Marines, he went to Vietnam. He is a double double amputee in a wheelchair. And all because of his sister's murder and the false information the family had been given. He would not have felt like he had to put himself in danger to save someone else. He actually spoke to one of Winston Mosley's sons, who's a minister. You know, good for him. Of course, Mosley's son does not believe his father did it. Because the father's confessed, he's convicted. But then he's telling the son, no, no, I didn't do it. It wasn't me. And you've got that, this is my dad versus this is you know what the police are saying. And because Winston Mosley was a black man in the 60s, even though it's New York, like I can see. Yeah, nobody trusted the cops. Right. But yeah, Bill went through and he did this whole documentary. I wasn't able to watch it because I did decide to do this kind of last minute.
SPEAKER_00What can we find it on?
SPEAKER_03I will look it up because I didn't I didn't even get to that point. But it's called The Witness. And he literally he goes and he stands in that stairwell where Sophia held his sister and looks at Carl Ross's door and says, He could have saved my sister. He could have saved her life.
SPEAKER_00Are you sure it's the witness because it uh I think so.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the witness.
SPEAKER_00When did it come out?
SPEAKER_022015.
SPEAKER_03Okay, you looks like you can find it on YouTube, uh, YouTube, Amazon, possibly Netflix, Apple TV, PBS independent lens. So yeah, I I mean I highly recommend it. You know, I'm gonna watch it as soon as I can. But we do have another character in here that I want to talk about, just briefly. Mary Ann. Because she kind of gets she definitely gets forgotten in the story. Yeah. You know. So Mary Ann actually went on to live a very long life. She died at the age of 85 on April 3rd, 2024. I was like, she died on my birthday. Because, you know, I don't have a birthday like you. Yeah. But she went on and she ended up, she was working for a company that designed and built submarines.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's fucking cool.
SPEAKER_03She was like good at carving and painting and drawing, like very artistically talented woman. And when she died, her and her partner had been together for 24 years. So she did go on and was able to love again and live, you know, a good life. But in 2016, she was interviewed and asked about how she felt. And I'm gonna have to hold this up because I wrote in cursive and it's a little dark in here.
SPEAKER_00Do you need to put it by a candlelight?
SPEAKER_03No, no, I wrote in cursive, therefore, it's a little messy even for me.
SPEAKER_00Oh, let me try.
SPEAKER_03No, I can read it. I know what it says. You want to read it? All right, you read my first quote from Marianne.
SPEAKER_00After the No, that's the the top.
SPEAKER_03Oh. The top paragraph is a quote from her.
SPEAKER_00I was very numb, I would say. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you can't read my handwriting. We've established this a long time ago. Poor Vincent.
SPEAKER_00Poor Vincent.
SPEAKER_03That's a different story. It's a whole really whole different story. I was very numb, I would say, from the whole thing. I felt, wow, she was so close, and I was sleeping, and I didn't uh didn't know what happened. And then I could have saved her. You know, that's what I really think, really think still.
SPEAKER_00She thinks that she could have saved her.
SPEAKER_03She could have saved her. She feels like if she had been awake, she could have saved her.
SPEAKER_00And that's just like the survivor's guilt.
SPEAKER_03Right. And, you know, after losing Kitty and, you know, hours of interrogation about shit that had nothing to do with the murder. And, you know, the article comes out, and basically having to grieve in private, you know, she kind of like Bill felt like you've got to help. You've got to be the helper. Right. So, not really sure how long after Kitty's death, but Marianne was driving home from work one night and she sees a man hit a woman on the sidewalk, like they're fighting. Pulls her car over, jumps out, asks the woman, Do you need help? And the woman runs and jumps in her car. And this is her quote. She says, I drove her home, but never saw her again. I could have just driven by that night, but I said, I'll take the chance. And that is the story of Kitty Genevese and the bystander effect, which is partially bullshit. But not complete bullshit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So like she like call definitely failed her. The police failed her in a not like in a way like in previous. Wait, which case were we talking about where like the police completely dropped the ball? It was one of the cases that we talked about. You can't remember either.
SPEAKER_03Oh, the are we talking about the one where they waited an entire week to get any security footage from her round? Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Justin Cummings. They didn't they didn't fail her in that way, but they did fail in because they they lost their focus. They lost their focus.
SPEAKER_03And because I can genuinely see these two pricks questioning her about lesbian sex.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And being disgusting about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I still want to beat the shit out of Carl. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_03Fuck Carl. Fuck Carl. And and literally, Marianne said, she's like, he was scared of everything. So, you know, and in reality, he could have been agoraphobic. But in one of the sources I'd found they had actually met him when they moved in and he helped move carry their couch upstairs. So he would leave his apartment. So he's not completely agoraphobic. But he was anything involving the police helping someone, he was out. But if you needed a drinking buddy, apparently, he's your guy.
SPEAKER_00Like it sounds like he didn't even tell tell her his part that he played within the entire I I possibly she knew.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. Because like honestly, this is just Because I mean she really she's like she spoke, she says, you know, in one interview she had done, she's like, she talked to the person the man she believes was the last one to see her alive. She's like, and he was scared of everything. So I I fully believe that was Carl. And you know, he really did set himself up to be a suspect.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And especially like getting combative with Yeah, getting, you know, not letting the cops do their job. Like he was definitely letting his own personal shit affect that entire thing.
SPEAKER_03And you know, I get it. But at the same time, Detective Sang was not in there being like, so you eat pussy. Yeah. He's he's trying to be like, hey, your roommate was murdered. What happened? What you know, is there any do you know anything anybody would right? And the the sad, stupid fact about this is Mosley left his house that night while his wife and kids were sleeping to go out and find someone to attack.
SPEAKER_00Damn. So I might really itchy.
SPEAKER_03Kitty was driving home from work and sitting at a red light. He looked over, he saw her and said, That's the one. So it was really just random.
SPEAKER_00Like bad Somebody was gonna die. And it was just bad fucking timing.
What Safety Looks Like For Women
SPEAKER_03She was at the right place at the wrong time. Or the wrong place at the right time. However you want to look at it. Because she's wrong place, long time. Right. She's going home. You know, and as a woman, you should be able to go home and be safe.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, you should be able to exist and be safe. And that is unfortunately not the case. Not the case. And the fact that I have had to teach my daughters very specific habits and to the point, you know, I don't like to have to yell at my kids. If I do end up yelling at them, it's usually because I've just kind of lost, you know, I'm overstimulated. I have yelled at my children in the car because I'm trying to get both of them into the car, door shut, load whatever I've got to load into the back, and then get myself into the vehicle safely without incidents happening. And my kids, for the longest time, especially when they were tiny. You know, old enough to buckle themselves and shut their doors, but still tiny enough, like you could pick both of them up and run if you had to. They would leave the door open and be like fucking around with their toys, whatever they got at the store. And I'm literally having to yell at them, shut your fucking door. And you know, getting them going over shutting their doors. Locking it, you know, put your seatbelt on, shut your door, put your seatbelt on, then fuck with whatever you're you got. And I would sit there in the parking lot of the fucking Dollar General and yell at my kids because I needed them to remember that your girls. You cannot afford to not be aware. Yeah. And I had to do it multiple times with the little one. Literally, like I told her I was like, all right, go get in the car. And little shit's standing next to the closed door, twirling and dancing. And there's a white minivan next to us. With somebody sitting inside. Could have easily just could have easily snatched my kid. I walked over because she was about five. I opened her door, threw her ass in, and shut the door, loaded my groceries, hit the lock button to lock all of the doors so I could put my cart up. Because it was on the other, you know, other side of where I was parked. And even if I'm gonna be five foot away, I'm locking the doors with my kids in there. I come back, I get in, or actually I stop, buckle her up because she's in the booster seat and all of that. I get in and I lean into her ass. And I was like, Do you see that van next to us? Do you see the man sitting in it? He could have reached out and snatched you. I tell you to get in the car, get in the car. This is the shit I have to teach my daughters. This is the shit everybody has to teach their daughters. And Mike doesn't get it because I will literally talk to a crackhead in front of a gas station. But I don't feel threatened by them.
SPEAKER_00And also then again, you're an adult. I'm well, I know it was it's genuinely I don't feel threatened by them.
SPEAKER_03They're not after me for anything, maybe a couple bucks. And if I'm like, dude, sorry, I ain't got the cash. Pretty much gonna leave you alone. They're gonna leave me alone. No, not a problem, baby girl, whatever. You know you need a good confidence boost, you having a bad day, go down to the corner store that's got the crackhead. They gonna make you feel great, okay? I have no problem with that. But now a white man, they won't leave me alone. Whole different story. Yeah, you know, I have been followed out to my car. I have walked into a store, somebody walking out. I'm in there doing my shopping, back when Walmart was open 24 hours, doing my shopping, and I see this guy that passed me walking out as I walked in in the store, and I'm like, alright, you forgot some shit. Whatever. But you keep on seeing him. Kept seeing him. I go to the register, I pay for my stuff. I go out, I get in my car that I was driving at the time, and I lock the door. Windows are rolled up. I literally pull out my phone and I called one of my guy friends, because I knew he was awake, and I was actually calling him to bullshit about something. And next thing you know, this man is tapping on my driver's side window. I cracked my window and I was like, yeah. And he was like, hey, can I get your number? Sorry, I'm on the phone with my boyfriend. All right, well, you know, can I get a cigarette? Sure, here's a cigarette. Leave. You know. I was 19. My mom didn't know I was at the store. Nobody knew where the fuck I was. I literally called that friend, just to bullshit, and then I was like, hey, you heard all of that, right? I'm driving home. I will text you when I get home. If I do not text you in the next five, ten minutes, come looking for my ass. You know. But that shit, we shouldn't have to teach our kids that we literally shouldn't. We shouldn't.
SPEAKER_00But we have to.
SPEAKER_03And I mean, at one point Mike was actively considering putting a GPS tracker on the little one when she started school. He thought about it. Hard. And I think she'd been in kindergarten for a couple of months, and we were talking about it because she would get off the bus and go into the school. And he was like, you know, don't they walk you to class? And she's like, no. He's like, what do you mean they don't? I was like, she she gets off the bus and she walks to her classroom. He's like, but she's so little, like, they don't take the kindergarten. No.
SPEAKER_00He was like, what the fuck? And I'm like, Michael. Like, I didn't really have to deal with that because when I was in kindergarten, I was also at a daycare as well.
SPEAKER_03Well, that was during that time as he was working second shift in his job. So he was home, you know, in the mornings. He didn't have to go in until you know the afternoon. So he would put her on the bus in the morning. And then she would do after school care. Yeah. But yeah, that's when I tell you I have seen some shit and I have been through some shit. And my kids still being so fucking oblivious kills me. Because even in Mike, now that it's me and two daughters, like he is on point every time. And between me and him and our RBF, you're not getting to our fucking kids. We will literally put them between us. He's gonna lead the charge of fucking backing him up. So uh but yeah, that is just another fucking sad statement on the existence of humanity. Of humanity. Yeah. Okay, on this one, I beat you. I hit it twice. Fuck you. Bitch. Uh fuck you. You totally hit it three times the last one.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, it was only twice. You hit it three times. No, it was twice. I will go to the video. Go to the fucking video. We'll make Mike do it. I told him he had to do it.
SPEAKER_03No. So he and I are gonna continue this argument because we are still on our fuck shit from three hours ago.
SPEAKER_00I might have I might have been silent. Like, that's the thing. Like, we can't really joke about it. You can't joke about Mike.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I'm gonna talk some major shit about some of the players.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but like fuck Carl. Fuck Carl. Fuck his little pussy ass bitch. Like, no, like as a gay man myself. Like but I I mean I'm also like time period though.
SPEAKER_03Like, there's a lot of factors that it's I still hate him.
SPEAKER_00No, I still hate him. No, I fully understand. No, but like, Zinda, while watching one like actively listening and seeing your friend get raped and murdered, but not doing anything.
SPEAKER_03Like, I just I'm sorry, sir. You were in your home. I know you got at least one kitchen knife, a skillet. You're a gay man, so there's probably some awesome fucking heavy ass mid-century modern decor you could have used. Yeah. Like go out there. The man ran away because somebody yelled, let the girl alone. You could have come out that door with a knife. Anything can be a weapon. Anything can be a weapon. And I've literally like told friends, like if you were in a situation, like if you're loading groceries, you know, one, get your kids in the cars first. Fuck the groceries, make sure your babies are good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And if somebody's watching you or somebody approaches you and tries to do anything, you grab that gallon of milk upside the fucking head. That's eight pounds.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, you grab the bag of canned goods. You be bop a loop upside the head. No, I'll be out there dual-wielding like grocery bags. Right. My luck, it'd be the time that I got the bags that ripped.
SPEAKER_00No, like you're going to swing, it just falls. Man.
SPEAKER_03Like beat a motherfucker with a bag of oranges, something. Something. Yeah. You know. Maybe I'm the problem. I don't think I am. But I mean, you're the problem.
SPEAKER_00The child did throw an empty milk. And carrots. She threw milk a carton and carrots.
SPEAKER_03And he was annoying her. I'm like, the funniest part is that like two, three weeks later, I was going through that child's backpack and found an empty milk carton. I was like, what are you doing? Stocking up on ammo? No, I just put it in there when it was done. I found a big ass rock in there. I was like, no, we're not throwing rocks. But at the same time, if something were to go down and I needed backup, that's my kid that's gonna go find a brick and rock your jaw. Yeah. Because she's scrappy. But yeah, so all right, that's our nightmare.
Where To Follow And Support
SPEAKER_03So if you enjoyed this, enjoy us.
SPEAKER_00You can follow us on X, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, at Fell Nimers Podcast. You can also see us on our website, FellNightmares.com. And you can also email us at fellownimerspodcast at gmail.com. Yes. Wow, I was able to get all three. And YouTube. Feral Nightmares. So wow, I was actually surprised I was able to get through all of them.
SPEAKER_03You can get all of them. I'm very impressed. Good shot. Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_00This is never gonna happen again. It won't.
SPEAKER_03Um we're so tired.
SPEAKER_00We are exhausted.
SPEAKER_03All right. So that being said, please like, subscribe, follow, review, help us help us grow.
SPEAKER_00Like send us to any anyone you think.
SPEAKER_03I mean, we're super excited because we had like 80 downloads.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Wait, really? Yeah. Oh shit.
SPEAKER_03That was before the new episode dropped. Oh, damn. Yes. We still need to check out the We gotta look at that again. We'll make it.
SPEAKER_00And also, we're what's the word for it? What? Like International? Yeah, we're international. We've added some more countries.
SPEAKER_03Wait, really? Which ones? Poland. And I think Germany. Not a hundred percent. I'll have to go back. I mean, like hang on, let me look at the picture I sent you.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, we're fucking international. I am fucking sight.
SPEAKER_03Like, we are like honestly, we're kind of ridiculous. Yeah, United States, Canada, France, Poland, Germany, and the United Kingdom. Nice. We have three Canadian listeners.
SPEAKER_00What up, Canada?
SPEAKER_03Two in France. What's up, France? Bonjour. Bonjour. One in Poland, one in Germany, and one in the UK.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I don't know like the green for Gutentag. Guten Tag. That's German. I don't know. Polish, no clue. England. What's up, mate? Great. Okay, don't pay me for that one.
SPEAKER_03Don't hate us. We're dude, we're from the South. We're from the South. Um, but yeah, North America, 93%. Our listeners are North American. We've got like 65 downloads from the United States. Nice. Like, and here's the thing, because we're ridiculous, but I think when we set our original goal, we were like, we'll be happy if we have like 50 downloads in six months. So yeah, so like we're growing actually faster than we're all. We've been a lot faster than we thought. And so it hasn't even been a month.
SPEAKER_00It hasn't, yeah. I mean, it'll be a month like in August 3rd. Yeah, like and that's like two weeks. So fuck yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know. So yeah, we are like go us, right? But yeah, so all right.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's nap time. It's nap time. So sweet dreams and fellow nightmares. Bye. Bye.
