Digital Seance Experience

Electronic Voice Phenomenon (EVP) is the focus of this episode of “Paranormal Yakker”. Guests Ron Yacovetti and Lourdes Gonzalez, researchers and developers behind the "Digital Séance Experience" hold key roles at the IDC (an institute aiding paranormal investigation). In the interview they discuss their transition from traditional ghost hunting to pioneering Instrumental Trans-Communication (ITC) methods.

The Digital Séance Experience

Unlike traditional "Spirit Boxes" that scan radio frequencies—a method Ron critiques for truncating messages and introducing radio contamination—the Digital Séance Experience uses a closed-circuit system. They utilize analog white noise generators, an interface, and software to filter and slow down audio in real-time. This allows them to capture coherent, nuanced communication without the artifacts associated with sweeping radio stations. Ron emphasizes that their focus is on "mentation" and consciousness, theorizing that the white noise acts as a transducer for non-physical signals.

Metaphysical Foundations

The interview delves into the influence of philosopher Dr. Bernardo Kastrup and "analytic idealism" on their work. Ron and Lourdes argue that most paranormal research is hindered by an unexamined adherence to "physicalism"—the belief that only material reality exists. By adopting an idealist framework, they posit that consciousness is primary, making paranormal phenomena not just plausible but normal. This perspective informs their belief that locations do not "record" trauma like a tape deck (as in "Stone Tape Theory"), but rather that experiences are part of a "cognitive neighborhood" accessible through consciousness and association.

Research and Approach

Lourdes shares her background in Espiritismo and her skills as a court reporter, which help her detect subtle vocal patterns, dialects, and cadences in their recordings. They stress the importance of intentionality and focus during sessions, noting that their work often provides profound solace and validation to those seeking contact with loved ones.

If you are interested in spirit communication and learning the latest advancements in equipment that enables one to communicate with loved ones who passed to the “other side” this episode of “Paranormal Yakker” is one you don’t want to miss.

Timecodes

00:00:00 – EVP trailblazers Ron Yacovetti & Loudes Gonzalez.

00:01:28 – What triggered Ron & Lourdes interest in spirit communication.

00:06:10 – The Digital Seance Experience backstory.

00:12:05 – Ghost & Spirit Boxes vs Ron & Lourdes EVP system.

00:16:14 – Influence of Dutch philosopher Dr. Bernardo Kastrup.

00:26:07 – How instrumental trans-communication changed the EVP field.

00:27:59 – Mediums, spiritualists & instrumental trans-communication.

00:30:32 – Synopsis of a typical Digital Séance Experience.

00:33:36 – How spirit communication differs in various locations.

00:40:36 – Where Digital Seance Experience events are held.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hi everyone, I'm Stanley. Welcome to Powerable Yacco. My guests today are fellow Yacco Ryan, Yacke Vedi, and Lord Gonzalez. They are trailblazers in the development of equipment that enables one to communicate with those who passed to the spirit realm. They're also the creators and driving force behind the digital seance experience. Ryan has authored a number of paranormal themed books, including those on spirit communication. He's also chief communications officer and research analyst for the IDC and Institute form to aid paranormal researchers and investigators in the search for answers into matters related to the unknown. Lord is the research archivist and records manager for the IDC Institute. She is also an acknowledged voice phenomenon authority and has perfected her skills at accurately detecting anomalous voices. Ron the Yakman Yakavetti and Lord Gonzalez, welcome to Paranormal Yaker.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Love being on. We do.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Before discussing your amazing digital seance experience, which has played to sold out audiences everywhere you've taken it. Since you, Ron, was the one who got the ball rolling. You can go first. And then Lord, I'd like to hear about your journey.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

With regards to the digital seance experience that we do now, I was technically the one who got the ball rolling first. But with regards to an involvement with spiritual activities, her story predates mine and is different than mine by quite a bit. Basically, for me, we're now in New York, we live in New Jersey together. I started doing what was under the moniker of ghost hunting, and I know that's changed a lot over the years, paranormal researcher or investigator. I started when I lived in Los Angeles for 14 years, between 2000 and 2014. I had an early affinity for EVPs, which is something that she and I share. And then when I first saw the use of what's called ITC, instrumental transcommunication, most people know from the spirit box or the ghost box, born of the Frank Sumptions Frank box. When I saw that at the Glen Tavern Inn with a group of people on the third floor, first time I had ever seen a spirit box session, and it was being conducted by uh Chad Lindbergh from uh the Fast and Furious movies. He was on a show with John L. Tenny, and everybody introduced themselves and it got to him and he goes, Hi, I'm Chad. And then it was uh 15, 20 seconds, give or take later. A voice came out of the little sweeping radio and went, I know Chad. And I was like, What just happened? And what do I have to spend to get it? So I was hooked, I did not realize that new in the game that real-time contact was something that people even attempted. So that had me hooked flash forward for 20-something years. The standard for forerunners in ITC research was people who built ghost boxes. I do not, but I wanted to contribute. I came across the works of Dr. Annabelle Cardoso, who is the last surviving member of the original guard of EVP and ITC researchers. And when I say original guard, I don't mean the TV pioneers. I mean the actual pioneers of this type of work, mainly most of whom were in Europe, but not all. I became friends with her and she mentored me into what was called direct radio voice, which is DRV, using a vacant shortwave, medium wave channel on a radio that received, but on a vacant channel. No sweeping, uh none of that, no lights. That's how I got involved and got the ball rolling, was just the affinity for the real-time contact, which was being facilitated through radios.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

And my story really starts from the beginning. My family practiced Espiritismo, which is a form of medianship in the Caribbean. So the paranormal was normal for me, but I did shy away from it because I had a traumatic experience because the family, most of the people in my family, practiced, but my mom did not. But I was used to seeing my cousins and my aunts and my cousins, male and female, channeling. It was normal to me. But one day, as my cousin was channeling, she banged into my mom. And then my mom and her were channeling. All of a sudden became like real, real, if you want to say that. Because it was okay until I saw that. And so from there, I shied away. I respected it. I can't say that I was afraid of it, but I just didn't agree with it because it didn't feel good when I saw that happen. But I still had precognition dreams a lot for many years into like 2007. And then I had another traumatic experience where I pre-cognized my friend's miscarriage and then her demise a month later. And then from there, those dreams stopped. But then in 2016, I met Ron and he introduced me to EVP, and that first EVP sucked me right back in. I mean, knowing that it was just me and him, it was an investigation, but it was just me and him, and we got a simple yes, and it just I forgot all about that and went right back in. And then when we started doing direct radio voice, I found it very fascinating because to me it was the purest form closest to EVP. So that really intrigued me.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

What exactly is the digital seance experience? And is there a backstory as how it came to fruition?

SPEAKER_02 6:22

That's an excellent question because there is, and not everybody asks that. So the digital seance experience also the name was initially hatched as my third of five books was called the Digital Seance Initiative that we were calling live events that we did with the public. The background behind us right now is the cover art without text from that third book, the Digital Seance Initiative. We changed it to experience in a rebranding, and we did it because we were doing spirit communication sessions, but we were doing sessions, and we found sometimes we were set up in either common areas or areas at investigative locations that people were holding events that seemed to accommodate the most people for seating. So even if they broke the group up into like three groups of 10, the common area could accommodate all 30 people. So that's where they would set us up for a big group thing. But in the common areas, oftentimes were snacks and drinks. So voices were coming through that shouldn't be there, and people were ripping open bags of Cheetos and popping soda cans, and they're going, I'm not really hearing anything, you think? So we thought, well, what modality have we seen in anything occultish, paranormalish, that has that focused attentiveness? And it was the seance, hence the digital seance initiative, then experience. And basically what we do is we do a method that was derivative of what Laura's mentioned, direct radio voice, which was using a vacant channel and a long wave or medium wave radio frequency, no sweeping. And we would do that, and then we eventually cross paths with a gentleman named Keith Clark from a company called Varanormal with a V.com. He introduced us to the software that we do this with now. And so what the method became was we use analog white noise generators that feed an interface, and the interface goes into the software. People see the software and sometimes they think that is causally what's behind everything. It's not. What we're doing with the software is simply what everybody does with audio capture in the paranormal when they go home. They take the recordings, they put it in software, they denoise it, they slow it down, they amplify it, and then they share it. But if you're trying to have dialogue in real time, then the idea would be to try to do all that stuff present at the time, not when you go home. That's what it is. Analog generators through an interface, fusing three channels into one, and then filtering it and slowing it down in real time, slowing it down. The flow of live white noise had never been done before we had done it, and it was based on an experience we had. And so from that, we had a closed circuit, non-contaminated version of direct radio voice now fused with the software component to clean it up in real time, hence the digital seance experience. And then the differences are also with the analog generators and the white noise and the no radio part.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

And the slowing down of the white noise, the earlier pioneers in the 80s, when they would receive voices, they noticed that sometimes, many times, the voices will come in quicker than a human can speak it or detect it. And then we did get an experience where Ron only heard one word that wasn't the full word, and it was like three sentences in there. And he remembered that, and he came up with the idea to slow down the white norms.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Yeah, I remembered it because I heard what I believed was, and I obviously beyond a doubt no, but I believed highly compelling that it was my mother mentioning her and her mother, who had passed two years before her. And the voice came in so fast that I heard this only when at the time we hadn't been slowing it down at the moment. It was slowed down 50% in review, and it sounded as emphatic as any Captain Kirk speech on any Star Trek episode you've ever seen. But female, and really you could hear the emotion, and that was 50% slowed down. So I sound intoxicated on the recording at 50% speed, but the voice sounds completely normal and emphasized and clear. And so Lord is by trade as a court reporter, so she knew immediately that there's no way a human being can speak this fast without stumbling and tripping over the words, blending things together, snurring. It doesn't matter. You can't speak this fast with clarity. So that's when I remember the pioneers saying that, and we slowed it down in real time. And the white noise we're using, also important, has no data. And we remove the radio as the source of the white noise to remove cynical, low-hanging fruit that when you get voices like a spirit box or ghost box does, that's one of the knocks on it by people who are cynical. Is the anomaly you're looking for is voice, and you're using a device that comes with and receives voice. This doesn't have that. It's closed circuit as far as physics of sound goes. So it's analog, no data, no voices, no sound banks, no words. It's not an app, even though we're using a computer for part of it. And that's it. Analog white noise, filtered, slowed down, real time, and then you don't even hear the static white noise. Sometimes you hear a blip here and there, but for the most part, it runs pretty quiet until there are what sounds like vocal patterns or voices that come through. Some much clearer than others, sometimes not as much. So we we cut a little bit of slack into the other side of the veil as we would colloquially refer to it.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

And the fascinating part about the white noise, though, because you know it's a constant level and there is no data, but you can tell emotions by the cadence and the slowing down of the white noise, and we still get voices that are speak really fast. So you could imagine how quickly those voices are coming in.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

And that's as mentioned in her bio, that's an authoritative opinion, as far as I'm concerned. She has an incredibly attuned ear to vocal patterns, people talking over each other at the same time, different cadences, dialects. And so when she picks things out, oftentimes we agree, and when we don't, I I hedge my bets before I argue.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

EVP, electronic voice phenomenon, was first popularized in the 1970s. And the first popular spirit box, often called Frank's box, because of its developer, uh Frank Sumpton, uh, came out in the early 2000s. In what ways does your spirit communication equipment differ from previous ghosts and spirit boxes?

SPEAKER_02 12:34

That's an excellent question, too, because that is one of the things that we have tried to do in branding what it is we're doing in its uniqueness. I have an opinion that probably amongst many ITC practitioners or people over the years, not all, but might be an unpopular opinion. I don't see the Frank's box as a progression. When you look at the definition of what you would call progress, it has a topological effect to it where you have something and then there's a continuation of that, and then you keep building upon, building upon. I think the Frank's box and the sweeping radio from Direct Radio Voice, which was a vacant channel that didn't touch broadcast, was a divergence. It was an alternate way to do it. But I think in theory, how it works, the ghost boxes work, is similar to what we do. I think that the white noise acting as something that transduces a non-detectable, non-physical signal, which we think is mentation or thought through consciousness, we think that's what's being put forth in what we're hearing as communication. So if that is true, we can at least support that assertion that we believe in some part by saying that there is clearly a brevity or shortness to the messages that come through the ghost boxes that we don't experience the limitation of. Because when it hits a frequency, it would be like if you and I are on the phone and I kept intermittently hitting the mute button. They're no longer available to the thing that's transducing, and then maybe through resonance in some way making the voices detectable. So I think that the method inhibits itself, but I don't think it's a progression from earlier ITC with direct radio voice. I think somewhat maybe of a hindrance, definitely a derailment or a different way of doing it that invited skepticism because it's using a radio and it's able to receive radio voices, and you're sweeping through them. And I think even from and and this is something that we do, and we'll get into more because we put forth a metaphysical philosophy called analytic idealism. And I think if you look at a physics of sound perspective again, the concept that many people, I won't say most or all, but maybe, think that the spirit boxes or Frank's box works under is that you fragment the vocals by sweeping through broadcast, which is never the same second to second. So you have a randomization of sound fragments, and through that, the spirits are manipulating the sounds to put them in place to make words to communicate audibly. If you take the extra step and think that through, it's mind-blowing to have the right word in the right place at the right time to answer a specific question. That they would be able to manipulate sounds that have to be present at the moment they need it to make the answer in order for it to come through with timing and relevance. It's like you just are manipulating sounds that have to be there to put them in the right place at the right time. It's almost completely incoherent. But if the noise by which the sounds are coming through is in some way working like a VLF converter, the VLF very low frequency used to be used for emergency service and submarine communication because of the size of the waves propagating the water. If you wanted to get VLF, but your radio only went down to long wave, a converter would transduce and bump up so that you would be able to play VLF frequencies at, let's say, 1435 shortwave. We think the white noise is functioning in somewhat of a transduction way like that, taking a non-detectable, non-physical signal and then allowing it to be audibly heard and maybe resonate through the application of the white noise. Again, this is in theory what we think is happening. It seems to at least make sense in the ghost box modality, it doesn't have access to the white noise because it hits frequencies through the sweep constantly, and I think it just truncates messages.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Dutch philosopher, computer scientist, and prolific author, Dr. Bernardo Castro, challenges how we understand consciousness. His work, which has influenced your work, centers on consciousness studies and analytical idealism, a form of metaphysical idealism developed within the analytical tradition. In what ways has your work been influenced by Kastruck's work?

SPEAKER_02 16:50

That's an excellent question. I really appreciate that you asked that. I'm going to try to be short. It's changed our approach a lot. It's affected our presence in the paranormal community and what it is we speak to. There's some people out there here and there who will quote what we say, but without context or understanding of the full breadth of what idealism is, for whatever reason they do it. But it was life-changing. As far as the work goes, what it did for both of us, and for me as an author, even, is it had me re-examine and look at a lot of these axioms or the these uh aphorisms, things that are taken like like dictum, like gospel, self-evident statements in the field or ideas or theories that have survived through hand-me-down from person to person in the field from the TV shows and celebrities from TV shows, appearing at events and stuff. And I looked at some of these explanations and I went, they're in a lot of cases, they're invoking science and then violating it almost immediately in the same explanation. Or it's just kind of metaphysically across the board. What he did was he says he doesn't influence or change anybody's mind. He either resonates with the person when he says resonates, or it percolates and then it hits him as an aha moment. I had the aha moment. And what it did was is it changed the lens through which I see everything. Not that I'm not open to other things, but I'm consistent in my view. Metaphysics in the paranormal field, I think gets confused with people think it means like candles and incense and crystals. They have practical application within a framework, but that's not what it means. It literally means that which stands behind the physics. Science tells us what nature and reality may or may not do. It asks questions of nature through experimentation and we have outcomes. It doesn't tell us what nature and reality is. Metaphysical philosophy attempts to do that. And so why do I think that's important? Well, what's one of the age-old questions that people in this ghost hunting field get asked? You don't think that's real, do you? You don't believe in ghosts. You think ghosts are real? You think that stuff's real? I don't think somebody can posit an educated guess as to what they think is real or not if they don't have an idea what they think reality actually is. That's metaphysics. And if you don't know your metaphysical stance, you are making guesses and theorizing and hypothesizing things with inconsistency a lot of time. I've seen people jump from one metaphysical view to another. And then the explanation doesn't hold up. It's not coherent because it these metaphysical views conflict, and they're building an idea or supporting an idea, taking pieces from both camps. So that's how it's influenced what we do. And I've written in one book and I'm working on another one where I challenge long-held theories or hypotheses in the paranormal or in high strangeness, like stone tape theory, uh, psychometry, residual haunting, even interdimensional hypothesis. And these are all things that I think that the experiences being described happen. I'm not taking a position of debunkery. I think I created that word. I'm not taking that position. What I'm saying is the explanations for those experiences don't hold up. That's how he's influenced and changed what I do a lot.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

He made me realize why I operate the way I do. So analytic idealism is a philosophy, and be known to me, I always worked in that philosophy, not realizing it because we are most of us operate under physicalism and we don't even know it. So it for me, like religion, I was brought up Catholic. The concept of when you do communion and you have to confess, it didn't make sense to me because I didn't think that I needed a middleman. And not only that, but people saw God as this physical form. And that didn't make sense to me because you start doing the circular reasoning. Well, who created God and who created him, and who so I always thought of God like this invisible mass, which is still physicalism because I'm seeing it as this invisible mass. But realizing that it's probably closest to meditation and consciousness. Well, then now that made sense to me. That's the reason why I would argue with my family about the whole religion stuff. And then he made me have a reasoning for precognition because try to explain these things, but then they put it back into physics, and then the explanations don't make sense. But under analytic idealism, it all makes sense, it makes the paranormal normal, which is what it was for me straight from the bat. When I first started, it was normal to me. So it just made sense, and it just kind of like I saw my life flash before my eyes because it was like amazing to me. I was like, Oh my god, this man knows what he's talking about. This is who I am, and he just gave me something. And through that, I feel like I was stuck without knowing that I was stuck, and now I'm able to have further critical. Thinking because of it.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Bernardo Castrop holds two PhDs, computer science engineering. His first job was at CERN. He was involved in the predictive mapping of the Atlas project, uh, early AI. When they found or discovered, declared the Higgs bus owner, what they call the God particle. And then he got a second PhD in philosophy. I watch him talk and I'm like, did I even graduate? It's inspiring and intimidating. The funny thing is that I've been reading his books and his academic papers and stuff for a few years now. And she's like, You're gonna talk to him one day. And I tried to reach out for an interview and he was so busy. He had released a paper on UAP phenomenon. He was just inundated. So he could he couldn't do it. I was like, all right, flash forward. Now I just came up on January year, there's an ambassadorship program of analytic idealism with him. So I meet with him every week now. Today was one of the days. So I actually so I get to speak to him. I get to discuss ideas and things, everything from consciousness to a variety of other things. They bring in leading people in in different fields and biology, Michael Levin, Jeffrey Kreipel, Christoph Ka, who's a neuroscientist, also Marjorie Woolcott. So it's humbling and it's been totally inspiring to be part of that. And his metaphysics has shown us something else that's important. And I hope that this is what I'm about to say, a takeaway from this interview for anybody who's watching it, who's into the paranormal or ghost hunting or supernatural or whatever they want to call it. One of the reasons why having a familiarity with one's metaphysical position is so vital. If you know, and I'm sure you do for people watching, the gentleman, brilliant man named Carl Sagan, he said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It became known as the Sagan standard. That is one of the biggest things plaguing people who believe in all this paranormal supernatural stuff. Because, in my opinion, that statement is only true, only if by being termed extraordinary, it is done so because of what happened exists outside of a dogmatic belief system. And so hence it needs a grandiose entry into the belief system. Hence, extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary proof or evidence, because this box is the belief system, which is most times people don't know, and which is the reigning worldview for a while now. Physicalism used to be called materialism that says that the only thing that fundamentally exists is material stuff, physical things, and everything else comes from that, including consciousness with your physical mushy brains creating it. That's the worldview. And when that view says that all this paranormal stuff isn't real and it doesn't exist and it's fake and all that stuff or can't happen, it's because it doesn't fit in that box. So the Sagan standard is starting with an aphoristic view. It's saying that it's an ideology. Science is not an ideology, it's a method of inquiry. But it's saying that this is what's true because we believe it based on axioms, and then what's not fitting into this can't be legit. So let's not even look at it. Hence the whole the term of the clergy people back in the day who wouldn't look through Galileo's telescope. They didn't want to acknowledge what it is he saw. That's what we're subject to because of metaphysical bias. That's why knowing one's metaphysical position is vital because all we're doing otherwise, and there's tons of people in this field aggregating really compelling data, videos, pictures, audio recordings, a lot of it, sci phenomena, telepathy stuff, clairvoyance, mediumship. And we're taking an eight-inch diameter ball, that's our evidence, and we're throwing it out there at a four-inch diameter hole. That's the people we're appealing to. And we can't figure out what it is we're putting out there isn't getting through. We have to do something to inform and influence the place which we're putting our stuff out in order for it to be seen fairly through a lens that allows for what happens, where the theory fits the facts, not the other way around.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

How has instrumental transcommunication changed the field of spirit communication?

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Well, I would say the real time, the real-time process of it, because it is fascinating. You mean with the spirit boxes, when I first started and when I heard voices in spirit boxes, I never heard the voices within the sweep. I always heard it that where I felt it was spirit communication, it was either above the sweep that it was so loud and it replaced it, or it was a low voice that you would hear underneath the sweep, which we believe is that white noise helping to bring that voice forward. But to hear it in real time with timing and relevance to a question, well, that's fascinating. That's what intrigued me. That's what changed. I didn't really have a view on it, but it didn't one way or the other. But I found it fascinating because I was like, this is this is legit.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

I will tell you, uh, I've known ITC people in the in the field who've been in ITC or in the paranormal field longer than me, with a lot of different brilliant ideas and building brilliant devices. And the first person who pointed out to me that the vocals never seem to be present in the sweep in the radio voices, but either lower where it's hard to hear them because it's competing with that of the sweep, or above it where it completely replaces it, the first person who said that to me was her.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah, because I noticed that someic ears. Sometimes when people would say, Oh, I heard that to me, I recognized the song. I'm like, I don't think that's what it is. So when I first heard that really low, then I started concentrating on voices like in the lower range where you still hear the sweep. And of course, at times there was these really loud ones that just completely just obfuscated that sweep. So that's where I would listen for the voices.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Have you found that medium spiritualists and channelers who, as a general rule, don't use any tools to communicate with the departed, but only use their uh intuitive psychic gifts, have been receptive and open to incorporating instrumental transcommunication in their sessions, or have you found a reluctance on their part to use it?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

I mean, I would say it depends on the person. There is more mediums that they don't want to use the spirit boxes, but we have experienced people who will give it a shot. They'll work with it. For us, it's a little different. Mediums tend to love to work with us because they they'll do their reading and they'll hit certain things with certain people. And then once they're done, we turn on our method. And when the same things come out of what they just said, it makes the experiencer very happy and validates what the medium said. And for the medium, well, they feel good because they were all it gives them that validation that the information that they gave out is accurate, or at least it appears to be accurate, right? Because if they're getting it and we are getting it, then they go some validation.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

We worked with some very talented mediums and we've ended up cross-validating each other on certain things. They'll say I'm picking up on whatever. And so this is also important now that we explain how it is our method works with no microphone, no data, closed circuit as far as sound goes. Because unlike an app, which people can confuse things sometimes if they see a computer involved, unlike an app, there's no suspect element of environmental noise or you saying oftentimes I'll hold up my glasses. It's been mimicked by other people for whatever reason. I'll hold up my glasses and I'll say what's in my hand. Now, if I said, Can you tell me glasses because I'm holding it up, with a mobile app, which we're not big proponents of, I wouldn't say that. If it was a mobile app, I would say, can you say what's in my hand? What am I holding? I won't say the word because the microphone on the app, you cannot rule out the possibility that it's hearing you and able to use that. With our system, I can say the word. There's no way to influence it other than through psi phenomena, which is what we're going for anyway. So there's no detraction from that use of the word. But that's an important part of why we explain how our system works and that it's closed.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Is it possible, Rodin Lords, to walk me through a typical digital seance experience?

SPEAKER_02 30:40

We're at a a lot of time we do a lot of the paracons or expos. We get our own room and we'll run sessions with the door closed for 30 minutes every hour, and then the other 30 minutes we'll take questions or talk to people. When we're part of an investigation, sometimes they'll run two different sittings for about 45 minutes. Sometimes we'll do a collective sitting at the end of the night as a big finale to do a digital seance. For the most part, what we try to do is we try to create a little bit more of the seance ambiance. We're actually leaning into that even more now and have a quiet space, a controlled space, people focusing. We encourage people to call out if they hear something, but not to break into conversations. We encourage people to participate because when we bring it out to the public, it is not for us. It is in service of other people who, at even at the paracons, have had very meaningfully profound moments that we could not have possibly manufactured if we wanted to. Because the stuff about people we had never met before that day would come through and other people would hear it and identify it, not just them. So you can't just lean on confirmation bias. People who don't know them would call things out, and it would be multiple things with regards to the same person that was being heard by multiple other people. So most times that's pretty much the protocol is to set up a controlled environment with people paying attention and then asking questions similar to how EVP or electronic voice phenomena sessions go, where you allow a silence after a question for an answer to come through. We often tell people if somebody goes, is my Aunt Jane here? And then someone goes, Is my Uncle Tommy here? And then a voice goes, Yes, you don't know who they're answering. And then make sure that they speak loudly enough so that recording devices pick it up. I often tell them, you don't have a QA if you don't have a cue.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

I mean, focus and intention is very important. We notice when there is focus and intention, the communication is better. When we first started, uh the one and say, when we first started doing this, it really was for us. We were doing research and we were getting these voices. We were trying to uh come up with something new because, like you say, he couldn't build ghost boxes. But then when we started taking it out, we started experiencing other people experiencing life-changing moments. And our first one was a 15-year-old young lady who believed that her grandmother was coming through. And I don't remember the name of the show, so I'm gonna make a name up. But she said, Grandma, if this is you, what TV show we used to watch when I was a little girl, and Dr. Roberts came through, and that was it. She started crying because it was an unusual name. I never heard of the show. That's why I can't remember it. And she started crying and it was impactful, and that was the aha moment for us to say, wait a minute, this is not for us. This is for us to share for service to the people, to give them that solace or whatever it is that they're looking for to get out from spirit communication.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Because you brought the digital science experience to so many varied environments and locations, I was wondering if spirit communication showed itself to be stronger when held in certain areas versus other areas.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

I'm gonna say yes. I think the environment has something to do with it. I don't know how it works because it's a closed system. But if under analytic idealism, if we believe that it's mental, then that means it doesn't matter if it's a closed circuit or not. And intention, the environment, all of that does play its role in the communication. Yes, I I absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

I think that the closed circuit system just uh allows us to rule out contamination in ways that are typical to maybe ITC methods, but ontologically, in an idea of beingness and what has primacy as an irreducible base, what reality may be, which we think is through idealism is consciousness. There's no independently physical things. Physicality, and this is uh a confirmed thing for the most part through quantum physics for at least 50 years, I think that physicality is the result of observation and measurement. Things don't have physical parameters that are then revealed upon observation and measurement, but physicality is the result of observation and measurement, which is how you can have things like entanglement, because particles are not little independent marbles that somehow can be millions of miles away, and when you spin one on the axis this way, the other one spins on the same axis the opposite way in alignment with it at the same time. You you can't have that if these are independent things. I agree that in essence, because it is not a fundamentally physical apparatus, but presents itself to us as all physical things do to our sense perception, that yeah, that a factor in it. And I also think also that some places that people think have stories or myths that go along with the history of them, that those memories, especially if things actually happened, are part of what we would call a cognitive neighborhood, things, uh ideas that are grouped by association. Now, that may not sound familiar or even sensible to someone if you're thinking in terms of how, again, how we were brought up through physicalism, that physical things exist primarily and then everything else can be explained from it. But under idealism, where the reality is fundamentally subjectivity or consciousness, which is nature's only true given, everything that we know directly or indirectly through acquaintance is through being conscious. If something exists outside of consciousness, it may as well not exist because we don't have access to it. Based on that, I think that you can have certain things that are grouped by association in what we would call a cognitive neighborhood. An example, if you remember your first car and you're driving along the coast and what song you were listening to, and the color of the car, and the smell of the ocean you were driving along the coast and the wind in your hair and the song, that's all things that are grouped by association, part of what we call cognitive neighborhood. So, can instances and stuff that has happened at a location collectively be part of a mental process that you could pick up on or connect with possibly? Yes, I think so. I don't think per what we call residual haunting or stone tape theory or psychometry, which again, I believe the experiences happen, but I don't think that these things like experiential states like love and despair are being stored in the wood, crystals, or rocks that are part of these places, because that runs into all types of problems with physics with regards to mechanism for recording, mechanism for playback, entropy erasing it. That's a whole other thing. But based on the idealist foundation, as Lord has nicely laid it out, yes, I think that places, certain things in certain places may have things that are more conducive to what it is that we're doing and through messages and stuff coming through. I think it's a mistake to look at something like this and say that if you can't bring it into a lab and recreate it, that it's not legitimate. I understand the reasons for doing lab studies and lab experimentation because it's more rigorous and you can control it for EMF readings, for contaminants. But when we take something from out in the field at a location that is termed haunted where activity happens, and you bring it into a laboratory to do it under controlled circumstances, you are unknowingly biasing the experiment. Why? Because we don't know all of the contributing factors behind the phenomena. It could go for miles, it could be the size of a village, things that are participating in that formation of whatever's the experience is. We don't know. So when you move it, you bias it. And it comes with an unexamined assumption, too, that everything that happens with these paranormal phenomena happens from a microscopic to a macroscopic scale. So of course it'll fit in the laboratory. You should be able to do it there. Not necessarily so. We don't know if certain things, certain phenomena are triggered at a higher level of complexity when there's a lot of things on a larger scale that are in place, and then you get the phenomena. Now, that's not to say that this is an exclusive statement to covers everything. If you look at the works of people like Dean Raden, for example, who's done extensive work with psi phenomena, they have recreated well above chance odds on several different things having to do with telepathy and remote viewing in laboratory settings. So that box has also been checked. But again, Sagan's standard and the ideological perspective of physicalism saying this stuff is impossible, it doesn't get looked at. They once again say, I'm not looking through Galileo's telescope. And the standards also is another thing, too, is because it there's a lot of stuff in the paranormal field that is substandard that gets put out there as class A evidence. Not all of it is that gets put out there. Uh people are not, I think, as stringent or rigorous as they should be. So when it's not good enough, they go, This is not good enough. This is not good stuff. This is not qualified, doesn't make your case. If it's too good, if it's better than they think it can be, then that also disqualifies it as probably being hoaxed or fabricated. So we are archers shooting the arrow at the target through a size that is like an olive jar to nail what is acceptable to maybe make the case for legitimacy. And even that target, as we fire through the jar, gets moved.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

So I just wanted to bring it back just quickly to cognitive neighborhood and stone tape theory because personally, for me, it's it's very important and we want to provoke thought. So just like, well, when Ron was saying when you have a memory, certain things you'll look at it and it'll remind you of something. So that's what we think is happening. So when a medium goes in and they see something or touch something, it's not because it's stored in there, but they're picking up on someone's experience, on a memory. That makes more sense. It seems like it's closer to the truth because we do that all the time here. You look at something color red, it makes me happy and remind, you know, reminds me of something, brings me back to that memory memory, or someone else will see it and it can be traumatic for them. That's how we believe that stone tape theory is happening, that they're picking up on a memory.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Should viewers of Paranormal Yakker want to learn about the books you, Ron, have authored and find out where and how they can attend the digital seance experiences, events that you and Lords organize. How can they do that?

SPEAKER_02 40:56

The website is Gognac Paranormal. It comes from her last name, Gonzalez, and mine, Yakavetti.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

And we do have a YouTube channel that we have some evidence clips on there, also Ganyak Paranormal.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Ron the Yakman, Yakavetti, and Lords Gonzalez. I thank you for being my guest on Paranormal Yakker. It was uh great yakking with you. I very much enjoyed it. Thank you. Hi everyone, this is Dan Maller, Paranormal Yakker. I hope you enjoyed the interview we just watched. So that you don't miss any upcoming shows. Be sure to subscribe to my free YouTube channel. To do that, just press the subscribe button on your screen.