At Your Service Podcast
Join Brennan and Chyna on their mission to humanize the service industry, by sharing real journeys from service workers and creatives. Including, but not limited to, piercers, tattooers, cosmetic artists, hair stylists, nail techs and bartenders. While simultaneously providing a safe and affirming space for the LGBTQ community.
At Your Service Podcast
Introductions
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Brennan and Chyna introduce themselves, the podcast and connect over their passion in the service industry.
Hello everyone. I am Chai and I am uh the owner and artist of Better Days Tattoos.
SPEAKER_00And I am Bren. I am the owner of Pincush and Body Piercing that's inside Better Day's Tattoos. And we are at your service. Alright, China. So this is episode one of our silly little podcast. At your service. Um, and I just kind of want to start off talking a little bit more about what we do outside of just tattooer owner, piercer, and all of that. Um so what do you feel like outside of being a tattooer? What do you do?
SPEAKER_02What do I do when I'm not tattooing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in your life. Who are you?
SPEAKER_02Um overall, I am very um family-oriented, uh, big hobby person. I like to be outdoors, I like to be with my dogs, I like to hang out with my wife. Um, I like to paint. Obviously, art is a big part of my life, so it's something I like to be deeply involved in, even outside of the studio. Um, and on top of that, I mean, overall, like I just like to kick it, dude. Like, I'm a I'm a tourist, so my tourist energy is just like, catch me on my couch. Literally, you just be vibing. Yeah, how about that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'd say for me outside of piercing, I also am a big hobby person, as you know. I spent a lot of time with Victoria doing our crafter. Um, I also love to read, and um, I do spend a lot of time traveling, not just for work, but I just really love to not be home. Uh that's where we defer. I love being home. When I need to be home, I'll be home for three days straight, but for the most part, I need to be out and about living my life. Yeah. Um, I just love I love experiences, and I feel like I will probably never give up fully like on that traveling.
SPEAKER_02Um, but yeah, I mean I get that. Like, I I do travel a lot. I wouldn't consider it my hobby, but it is something I enjoy doing, and it it it is something that I also do deeply value. So I think you know, we do align in that way. Yeah, I think I just prefer like caking it at home, chilling in my backyard, hanging out in the pool, small, subtle, peaceful moments.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I'm learning how to have those moments, and yeah, you in better days have definitely been teaching me to slow down a little bit and enjoy those small moments.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it's kind of the vision, you know.
SPEAKER_00That's the whole point. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that's kind of even why we're here, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's exactly why we're here.
SPEAKER_02I think that we both value a certain form of solitude, you know, and I think it takes work to get to that place in life, and that's kind of like how Better Days has even impacted my life is you know, I I opened up Better Days during a very chaotic time. And I think over the last couple of years, because we're going on our two years of being open, um and it blows it blows my mind because two years feels like it was just yesterday, honestly. Um, but it's been a great two years. Uh, but going from a very chaotic point in my life to where I am today, even currently going through something extremely challenging, I still am finding so much peace and comfort in the space that we have, you know. And I find that a lot of it is deeply rooted in the people who make Better Days what it is. Yeah, you know, and that including you, you know, like being a part of the team, being a part of the studio. I think all of that has given me permission to exist freely and openly and find that, you know, there is comfort even in chaos.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02You just gotta find it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you're gonna make me cry. I'm not even like 10 minutes in yet, and I already want to cry. No, but that is exactly a really good that's a good segue into why we're starting this podcast. Because the entire point of this podcast is bringing community together in specifically service industries, just because we aren't humanized enough. Um, not in that it doesn't mean just in on the internet or just to our clientele, to each other, we don't humanize each other enough. There's a lot of where we feel some places feel like they're better than others, or they just feel like they can't associate with others because they don't think do things a certain way. And that's literally the whole point in this, is finding that peace and that comfort with each other in the service industries. Um, I do want to throw out there this isn't gonna be a podcast just about tattooers and piercers. This is also about permanent makeup artists, nail techs, cosmetologists, barbers, bartenders, anyone in the service industry. Um and eventually we'll bring on you know features to talk about deep things, of course. But for the most part, this is meant to be a silly casual podcast where we just bring community together and humanize each other. So I'm yeah, really stoked for that.
SPEAKER_02Me too. Me too. I think it's important to highlight the true nature of what our industries really ask of us as people because I think you're right. I think we do tend to dehumanize people who work within the service industry, and as unfortunate as it is that we have had those experiences ourselves, I think it's only made us better to come out of that and to, you know, be inspired by these roles that we maybe have fell into, and to really look at those things and be like, you know what, like enough is enough, like something needs to change. And I think it's people like yourself and myself that come together and we're like, okay, like we know that there's problems that exist here and there's ways of doing certain things that maybe work for some people, but it doesn't work for everybody. And I think we want to hold space for the people where it doesn't work for everybody. Exactly. You know, there's different ways that we can do things and be successful without hitting the glass ceiling.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. You know? Yeah. Just break it. Just break it. Yeah. Just go for it. Yep. Absolutely. I knew there was gonna come that moment where I'm just staring at you and start giggling. I'm sorry. I love you. I love it, I love you like. Oh my goodness. Well, the big topic today um is talking about what the industry, our industry, means to us and what our role is in this industry. Not just title, but really why we got in the industry, what we found on our journey, because both of us have been in the industry for quite a while. I think you're closer to around 10 years, right? Somewhere around 10 years.
SPEAKER_02I I actually was just looking at my Instagram last night, and yeah, I am on 10 years. You're on 10 years. I am on 10 years. A full decade.
SPEAKER_00A whole decade. That's a long time. That's a long time to be in this industry. It feels like 20.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00It's like oh I get I get it. I get it. It's I understand. I I'm coming up on uh 10 years in total, but I was only in the industry for like around a year, left for about a year, and now I've been here almost officially eight years as a piercer. So, you know, similar, but you know, different sides, but still the same, which is nice.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Um which I I do love. I think that's like one thing that I'm really excited for with this podcast is the conversation of where things may differ for you and I.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But it's still very introspective into the insight of what we do have to deal with, the nature of our industry, how things operate. Um, and then you know, once we bring on guests, I think that's gonna be really exciting too, because then it opens up the conversation even more for different industries too.
SPEAKER_00I'm so excited to hear about the other industry. Like there are like outside in just on our industry alone, there are still other people that work in our industry that I don't know nothing about. Like Ari, our permanent makeup artist, and what is like a restorative artist?
SPEAKER_02Is that what what yeah, restorative, restorative, gender-affirming, cosmetic tattooing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I didn't even know that was really a thing. And then getting to work with Ari, I cannot wait to hear her perspective on everything. Yeah. Um, and also just like the different types of artists, different types of piercers. Um, but then I'm really stoked to just hear from other industries, just to see how things do align, all the things that we we can kind of work together to maybe understand something as a consensus to make everything kind of easier for us, or something that we're like, wow, I would have never thought about it that way. Maybe I need to change the way I look at something. Yeah, I'm so stoked.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I would absolutely agree with that because I do think when when I was younger, I would say that I was definitely less open to like feedback or other people's opinions. But I've learned that it's actually like such a cherished gift to be able to listen to other people and what their experiences are and also receive in uh feedback, you know, like to genuinely open yourself up to wanting that constructive criticism, I think is incredibly important because it teaches you how to truly navigate a lot of different worlds, and I think the more that we can expand ourselves, we can expand our industries, you know, and I think overall that just adds to the value of how to make something really, really good and solid, you know. Um I think like moving into kind of like who we are in terms of our roles in the industry, you know. I like I said, like I am on 10 years of being a tattoo artist. Um, my father was a tattoo artist. Uh I kind of grew up with, yeah, yeah, my dad was a tattoo artist. Um, and I kind of grew up in a very like misleading culture of tattooing because my father was in and out of prison my whole life. Um, and so I learned very young that tattoos were kind of just associated to these very negative experiences and the way that impacted like my family life and then my parents' marriage. Um, it just put a really bad taste in my mouth, you know, because I've always been an artist, I've always loved tattooing. Um, and I've just always been obsessed with tattoos, you know, just what they are, how they work on the body, like all of that kind of stuff I've always nerded out over. Um, and it wasn't until, you know, the season of college that I was like going to school and I wanted to be a psychologist because I really love, you know, human connection and discussing things with people. And, you know, I think I tend to fall into that area of like always wanting to help or always wanting to fix. And I realized very quickly in college that it's that's not the path I wanted to take because I personally cannot carry the weight load that comes with that. Um, because I was also doing like a bunch of CNA work at the time, and so I was already getting kind of like that real life experience of what even being in some sort of social services might feel like. And I was like, I can't do that.
SPEAKER_00I can't do it.
SPEAKER_02I can't fucking do it. Like my heart is big, but my mind cannot bear the weight that comes with the challenges. Um, so I ended up saying fuck it. And I was like, you know what? Like, I'm gonna drop out, I'm gonna become a tattoo artist. Um, and if it doesn't work out, I'll go back to school. Well, here we are 10 years later, you know, and it it's amazing. Like, I am very grateful for the journey I've had in this industry. I'm very grateful for the people I've met, the relationships I've built, uh, even the ones that have come and gone, you know. Every person has shaped some part of my development as an artist and as an as a business owner as well. Um, and I find myself very fortunate for that, you know. Um, I think my drive for how I show up in the industry comes from that experience as a kid growing up. Um and also just the experiences I had coming into the industry, you know, the shops that I worked at, the people I was around, the way that they were doing things, certain ways of operating, just like, or just the way they treated clients in general, you know. Um I think a lot of my experience is no, a lot of my desire actually is it comes from a place of like, I don't want to be like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't want to be like that. And so I think I've made it a part of my purpose in the industry, you know, um, to try to work towards creating something that looks different than what I think maybe you and I both have grown up in in the industry. Um, because I f I feel that it's very similar for you in the piercing community, you know. Um, and I think those are mindsets that we need to work on shifting.
SPEAKER_00I agree entirely. This is this is the the moment that I realized that what you felt your purpose was in this industry was the moment that I realized, oh my god, this podcast that I've wanted to do for a few years now, China needs to be the one to do it with me because I feel the exact same way. The whole reason I wanted to start this podcast to humanize the service industry is because I myself have not humanized myself, and there's been a lot of people on my piercer journey and and in my life just in general that have not humanized me. So, yes, exactly. Um, I feel like our mindset is very similar, and in that way, like you said, there might be something that we need to shift a little bit, and I think that this podcast is just gonna help us grow even more in that, which I'm super emotional right now. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02Well, I it's an emotional subject, you know. I mean, it really is because we are both so passionate about what we do, and not only that, we're very passionate about the people who are in our industries, people we aspire to be, and people we want to inspire to become, you know, and everyone else in between that. Like we're trying to do something that's different on a scale that doesn't typically want to move, you know? And I think that's the thing is like people within our industry, we're hard-headed, we're stubborn, we're rebels, like we go against the norm, you know. Like, you tell us what to do, and we're like, fuck you, dude. No, I'm good off that. Like, I'm gonna do it my way. And that's been my whole path, right? Like, I have always been fuck it, I'm gonna do it my way. Like, I started tattooing in my living room, you know, because I didn't know. Like, that's what my dad was doing when he wasn't in prison, and then when he wasn't in a shop, he was like, Well, I still gotta make money. And so I grew up thinking like there was this whole different way of doing things until I got hit with what the fuck are you doing, you scratcher.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, Oh my god, I didn't know. I didn't know. I'm bad.
SPEAKER_02You just will you teach me? You know, and then they're like, no, fuck you, you know. So it's like you you really have to dig yourself out of the mud in order to make something of yourself in this world. And I think people like ourselves, we're left with two choices. Do we want to become or do we want to just be? You know, and I think a lot of people in our industries find themselves asking the same question. It's what they do with that that matters the most, you know. And I think what I love about our intention with this podcast is we want to do something about it, you know, we want to make something become of this and add substance and value, you know. And I think I think that matters. I think that I think that matters a lot. And it says a lot about like the intention and the drive of where we're trying to go with this.
SPEAKER_00No, I agree entirely. Um the whole point, like you said, is the to have that the to give substance, to give intention. And realistically, that's what this I can't say all service industries, because I don't know the history of all service industries, obviously, but our industry specifically for the tattoos and piercings, like it did start with intention and culture and purpose. Um, and through at least the American side of the industry, um, we've kind of lost touch of that. And obviously, there are always going to be people like us trying to kind of bring that back. Um, and at least I can only speak on the piercing side of the industry, but I am friends with a lot of people across the states who are far more educated in the history of piercing than I am, and they want us to go back to that. They want us to have that intention and that in not even just intention, the integrity, the pride that we used to have when piercing became a profession, and just a little over 50 years ago. Um, it has not been that long that we've been professionals. And I think that that was probably one of the biggest reasons why I wanted to start this podcast. I started learning for I seven or not seven years, I'm so sorry, five years into piercing, I realized I knew nothing about the history, and then I learned the history, and that was when I decided I wanted to do something like this because that intention needs to be there. Outside of, you know, kind of a segue into what I feel like my purpose is in this industry. It has changed a lot throughout my career, but I do feel the last year and a half has been about educating and being full of intention and also giving people the um opportunity to see that you can be anything you want to be, whether it's in this industry or wherever you want to go. And that that's goes back to us just being that's who we are in this industry. We're like, you know, fuck the system, fuck society. I'm not gonna do what you tell me, nor am I even gonna listen. And if I do, I mean, all it is is so I can tell you to your face, fuck you. That's the only reason I'm gonna listen to you, you know? And it's because as individuals, to live authentically, you should be able to just be whatever the fuck you wanna be, except for an asshole. But whatever you wanna be. Literally. Round of applause for all. But yeah, and I feel like. Sorry, I lost my train of thought there for a moment. Um part of being in this industry is all about community and being there for one another. You don't have to be the most extroverted person in the world. I know plenty of amazing tattooers and piercers that will never speak a word to you at at work, but then you get them home and you're like, you're friends with them, and they just yap, yep, yep, yep, yep. And it's because they're introverted as hell and they're still passionate, and we need to, I want to bring that, you know, give people that opportunity to be whoever they want to be on this podcast. And I'm hoping that in seeing that, because you guys are gonna, you know, speaking to the audience, obviously, you guys are gonna hear a lot through through the time with us that you're gonna hear a lot about our journeys and where we have come from and the things that we have gone through. And we want to show you that you can go through really rough shit, and you can hit, you know, rock bottom multiple times, but you know what is all you have to do is get back up and just live authentically. Just be yourself, just do what makes you happy and feel alive as a human. Um and I once again lost my train of thought.
SPEAKER_02But uh but I I completely agree with you on that because I do think one thing I think I want to like go back on is you have to move through it, you know. That that has been that has become such a big thing for me is moving through it. Like, yes, get back up, but move through it. Don't just get back up and bolt into the next thing. Move through the experience, move through the journey, move through the emotions, move through all the hard shit that's coming your way, you know. You have to open yourself up to those things because I think if we don't, we just restrict ourselves, we become resentful, we become angry, we just become these like big molded things of ick, right?
SPEAKER_04Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So you have to move through it. Like movement is what creates momentum, you know. So it's not just like getting up from a hard place in your life, it's about getting up, moving through that hard place in your life, and finding yourself at the end of it, being like, oh, okay, I see. I learned all the lessons I needed to, and now those things can carry with me in the future so that I show up a hundred percent as my best self, right? Absolutely moving through it. I think that's one of the biggest things, you know. It's actually really funny because like as I'm saying that I'm thinking about the let them theory from Mel Brown Mel Mel Robbins. Mel Robbins is her name. And the let them theory is basically like trying to release your way of holding on to anxiety or other people's feelings or getting wrapped up in chaos, right? And as much as I love the let them theory, I'm also kind of thinking like you have to move through it though, you know? Like you can't just let people like sometimes you do need to step up and set boundaries for yourself. Sometimes you do need to use your voice and be loud even when you're nervous. Like, sometimes there's just moments where we just can't let people just do things, you know, and and that includes ourselves. Like, we also have to hold ourselves accountable. And I think that's one of the really important things that we need to take into consideration when moving through some of these conversations is the point of accountability and what that really looks like. Because it's like you said earlier, you had said sometimes we really want to go back to a certain time frame in our industries, right? But that's really scary for a lot of people, yeah. Especially nowadays.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, you know, it scares the hell out of me, even though like to a degree, I do want that. But God, it scares the shit out of me.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's because, you know, I think in terms of like what we respect about those times, it is that there was deep substance to what we were doing and how we were doing it, you know, the connectedness, the community forward aspect, the how how it was more integrated in that like I don't know, humane way, you know, of like you're a piercer, I'm a piercer kind of thing. And we have this like shared respect and the shared value system because we come from the same paths, right? Nowadays, I do think a lot of things have become very individualized, you know, with all the private studios open, with a lot of artists kind of treading into their own path and making a way for themselves. They're only doing that because we have failed, yeah, in the past, you know. So to say to go back, that's scary because what are we going back to? You know, because I think we've moved forward, especially in the last 15 years in the industry. Like, you know, you look back and You're like, oh shit, things were a lot different even 15 years ago. But how do we hold on to the traditional values, the things that actually built the industry and the culture of tattooing and piercing while creating space for safety and comfort and freedom for people to exist truly as they are? How do we get rid of judgment and shame and belittling? Like, I think it's looking at those things of how do we I think to put it into like perspective is I have always existed between two worlds, right? I've always existed amongst older tattooers and newer tattooers. So there's a very big gap between my experience of I kicked it with a lot of the old school guys, loved them, loved the way they did things, didn't always love the way they treated people, didn't always love the pride and ego that got in the way. With the younger generation, I find that there's a lot of carelessness. There's a lot of fuck this, fuck that. And in some ways, to the older artist in our industry, that's disrespectful. For me, I've always kind of been a middleman, you know? I've always been a middleman in this situation where I'm like, okay, but these kids have they have a vision. They have they're onto something here. So I think as older folks in the industry, gotta open themselves up to the mindset, right? But they also have to be willing to not gatekeep and expand on the knowledge of why they feel those things so strongly, you know. And to the kids who are coming into the industry, they gotta open themselves up to the experience of those people because we wouldn't be here without them. Exactly. You know, they're the ones who did the dirty work, they're the ones who did the hard shit, you know. We get the benefit and the privilege of being able to, this studio is not working out for me. I'm gonna go open my own. You know? Yeah. You only get that opportunity because we've had X, Y, and Z for so long, you know? And as much as I love that, it does create its own complications, you know? It it does create its own complications because then we invite a lot of people who don't properly know how to tattoo, who never had mentors, who never actually learned anything about sanitization or bloodborne pathogens, you know, taking risks, putting, putting the community and the public at risk. And I think that is where some of that like pride and ego comes in, is like, why the fuck are these kids out here doing that? You know, like back in my day, we would have never gotten away with that. Okay, well, before your day, homeboy was over here wiping people down with a bucket and water with a wet wet rag. You know what I mean? Like, so it's like no, no one is perfect in our industry. No one. No, and as much as we aspire to become the next greatest thing, we also have to be very, very aware and very cautious of all of the different roles that have played amongst our industries to get us to where we are today, and most importantly, asking ourselves, where are we headed? Where are we headed in our industries? You know, and how do we protect not only ourselves, our spaces, but the people coming into them? I think is one of the biggest questions. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_00I agree entirely. That was, you know, when I thought about who the audience of this podcast, who we're trying to aim to speak to, one of those groups of people are people that are interested in this industry or any service industry in general, like any profession, um, as well as, you know, clients of ours or anybody's just kind of wanting to get an idea of the people of the industry. And I think you're I th I backtracking a little bit, I do think that the biggest thing that I think I have even had a struggle with is like where do we want to go as an industry? What do we want out of this, you know, this fight that we've had and this the fact that now tattoos and piercings are becoming more recognized as normal. Um, I honestly see more people, and this might be just because all all the people I'm associated with are in the industry for the most part, but I mean I've been I've been to places in in like I went to Lethbridge in Canada, and it was the first time in my life where I experienced people that didn't have piercings and tattoos. We were the weirdos. Me and my girlfriend were just like the strangest people to them. They were like aliens, like, get out of here. Um and no, they were a lot nicer than that. But actually, they had asked us specifically why are you here? You're too cool for this place. Genuinely words that came out of somebody's mouth. Um, but um that was like one of those moments where I really realized, like, where are we going as an industry? Because here, specifically in California, everyone's got piercings and tattoos, everybody's some form of alternative. Everybody here is just like, you know what? I am me. Fuck you. I'm gonna do whatever I want. And that's one thing I love about California. But as the industry, like, that's was our whole thing. We were just like, we're gonna do what we're gonna do to be happy and feel like myself as an individual, but where are we going? And I'm I'm a little scared for where the industry is going, to be honest with you. Um I, you know, I've met more piercers in the last year and a half than I've known my whole career. And I've met a lot of people that have been doing this 20, 30 years, and I, which is mostly what I grew up in with the with in this industry. More recently, though, I've met more people who have been doing this only five to ten years, people like around the same amount of time as me, but they have a very different mindset than I do. They have more of the mindset of like the younger generation of piercers and tattooers. And it scares the hell out of me because I don't think that most, I don't want to say most, there's some people in this industry and just in the world in general that aren't willing to learn from mistakes. Not I'm not talking about them specifically, just as our industry or as humans in general. And it scares me about, you know, as we get more accepted accepted into society with uh piercings and tattoos, eventually it will become something that is so normal that it is not something that's gonna feel alternative anymore. It's gonna feel like, oh well now I'm just like everybody else, even though you could look completely different, obviously. And it scares me because I still want future generations to get to experience what we've gotten to experience, where we we got to we had to fight for where we're at, you know, in 20 years. I don't think it's gonna be like that anymore. And I'm hoping that if we keep the education alive and we come together as a community kind of talking about our trials and tribulations, of like I'm not only in this industry because it looks cool to have tattoos and piercings, I'm in it because I had a journey. I I had it because I'm in it because I am an individual and I just don't want us to lose sight of that. And we are losing sight of that, unfortunately. Um I don't think I think it's gonna take a lot longer than 20 years for us to fully lose sight of that. That was just a stupid number that I threw out there. But it does genuinely scare me. And I think that it isn't just in our industry, I think it's in a lot of service industries. I mean, eventually we have a couple of bartender friends that want to be on on feature about park bartending, and through them I've learned a lot about the bartending culture because the bartending culture I knew back in Reading is so different than the bartending culture I know out here now that I've only known of for like the last four or five months. And they have a history, there's an art to it, and it's getting lost. And that's I'm getting so emotional.
SPEAKER_02But but that's society as a whole. Yeah, exactly. All the fundamental things, and I think this happens with every generation. I think this happens with everybody who's getting older. I think if we've experienced life to some extent, there's always something new that feels threatening and scary, right? I think it really comes down to are we going to open ourselves up to those changes or are we going to neglect them? Yeah, you know, because I think if we neglect them, we create and become a part of the problem. You know what I mean? So instead of being scared, be curious. Ask, ask yourself like, where are we headed? How can I assist in this? How can I open myself up as well in terms of listening to what the demands of the incoming generation are? And then where can I share my experience so that they understand? Okay, I see you, I hear you, let's make this happen, but let's not forget this part.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Let's not forget these very fundamental important things. You know what I mean? So I think yes, like, is it scary? Of course it is. I argue against the 20-year thing. I do not think that because if you if you look at tattoos, you look at piercings, you look at all of these modifications that people, humans have done for thousands and thousands of years. It's not everyone, like globally, you know, like if you go like you gotta zoom out in order to really see how big the world is, right? Like, is it becoming more popular? Absolutely, but have tattoos become kind of a part of like this trendy culture because people want to one self discover and like at the same time, you know, externally portray who they are, like, yes, and I love that, but there's also a whole trend right now that's like tattoos are so bad, don't get tattoos, like those are so ugly, like why would you do that to your body? That is always gonna come and go, you know, and I think that's like one thing that like some of the older older artists in the industry will argue and say, like, this is why you guys need to know how to tattoo every style, this is why you guys need to understand the history of tattooing, this is why you guys need to be exposed to the culture because one day these stylized artists, some will be extremely successful because their art is in demand by an abundance of people, right? But there's a lot more tattooers who are just doing walk-ins. You know what I mean? And so I think at the end of the day, that's the service part, you know? And I think that's kind of where the divide is right now is that like you look at modern art, you look at art that gets hung on the walls and in galleries, like people pay money for those pieces, right? Because they're one of a kind. One artist did them, they're stylized. So, of course, that artist specifically is successful. Now, look at all of the other hundreds of thousands, millions of artists in the world who aren't that person. What are they doing? They're vendors, they're selling at markets, they have some of their stuff maybe in a store or two, they're selling online, they're on Etsy, like, but they're not making millions off of this, you know. At the end of the day, I think that most of us in the industry, we just want to be happy and we want to do what we love doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Some of us are privileged enough to be able to do a very specific style, but most of us just want a tattoo. You know? Yeah. And I think that shines light on a little bit of the past, a little bit of the present, and kind of where we're going.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is there used to be one specific way to be a tattoo artist, to be a piercer, to be a hairdresser, but social media, the culture of where we're at right now and where we're headed, I think we have been exposed to the fact that there's multiple ways of doing this. And in my opinion, I think that's good.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I think that's good. Oh my god, yeah. That's the best part about growth. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm I'm not fearful of so much of where we're headed, because I think where we're headed could be good. I think we just need to, again, keep an open mind and also ensure that whatever we've learned in our experiences, we communicate those things to the people coming in, you know. Like my example it is Better Days, you know, because I find that Better Days is diverse in the sense that there are multiple people from different age groups. And it's really cool to me, you know. It's really cool that I've been in the industry for a decade, and then I have another artist who's been in the industry for a year, two years, you know, like little baby. Um, and it's cool because we coexist very, very well, and I love that. And then I have mid-year tattooers who are five, six years in, and we coexist because we're all headed towards the same future, right? But I think what's really cool is listening to the perspective of those younger tattooers and where some of their concerns are or where some of their hesitancy is, you know, because I think a lot of where we started as tattoo artists was unfortunately, and not all mentors and tattoo shops have been like this, you know, but there's a handful that have belittled, degraded, put down their apprentices. And I think it creates a lot of scarcity, it creates a lot of fear, it creates a lot of shame for the artist who's trying to become something. And so when I listen to the conversations that some of these younger tattooers are having, I'm like, okay, how do we redirect that? How do we change that? You know? And maybe it wasn't always done the right way, but sometimes there was purpose in why people did move like that back then, you know? Um, because imagine giving your free time to somebody and they just walk all over it. Yep. You know? Like there had to be some form of accountability because people don't pay for apprenticeships, you know. Like that's the kindness of the mentor is to offer that time if the intention of the mentor is to genuinely teach that person how to be a good tattoo artist, you know. And I think that's what I'm saying is some of them just aren't. Some of them just want somebody to be their secondhand man and just do whatever they want. But I do think a lot of artists do move with the intention of actually teaching and educating the people who they bring into their space, you know? Yeah. Um I think one of the questions that was coming up for me when you were talking earlier was, you know, like how do you find yourself what steps are you taking to make sure you're moving the way you want to, and that you're happy in the moves that you're making present day?
SPEAKER_00Sorry. Um, well, honestly, I was about to say, which kind of answers your question a bit, is you just to change my perspective a little bit on my fear of the future for the not just the energy, but for myself. Because this last year and a half, my big moves have been just, you know, finding myself, finding peace within myself, starting testosterone, and living more authentically. Those were like some of the big steps that I found to be able to move forward and feel proud of those, the like moving forward. And it made me a lot less afraid of life in the future. But recently, these last couple of months, my biggest fear has been where is this industry going and where am I going in this industry? And I would say, aside from moving into better days and also working at my friend's studio, the Gilded Needle, both places have just being part of the community here and out there has really changed how I view things and has made me feel a lot more safe. And I think more recently in the last even just last week, my biggest shift into finding more happiness and peace in my with myself and trying to change my perspective a little bit on the future is being more open with my community. I struggle so much, and we kind of already talked about this outside of here, that I struggle so much with being open with the people around me. And there's lots of reasons why, but realistically, at this point in my life, being almost 30 and having a safe community, there's no reason for me not to. It's scary, it's hard, it's a change. And this last week I've really opened up a lot to everybody at Better Days and over at the Gilded Needle and my girlfriend and family. I've really been opening up about like my struggles and why I feel a certain way. And I think that is the biggest step that I've been taking, um, more just in general in my life, to find happiness and comfort in my life because I feel like a lot of the stressors in my life right now are because I have just focused too much on that stress. And oh my god, my how are other people gonna view this? How are other people gonna feel about this? Well, what about me?
SPEAKER_03You know, what about me?
SPEAKER_00I've not focused on myself enough, and I think that hopefully I answered your question that that's what I'm doing to find that happiness and find, you know, changing my perspective. And this podcast is also a big step. I think that yesterday I was so pumped because it was just such a great fulfilling day at work because everybody was in the studio and I was busy all day and it was just so much fun. And we had Mo doing photos, it was such a good day. Um, but then last night I got I had such a hard time sleeping because I was so giddy for this podcast. Because I do also think that starting this podcast with you is also another step that I'm gonna be finding my happiness and finding my peace and moving forward and kind of I'm always gonna be afraid of change, I'm always gonna be afraid of the future, but I do think that that right now I'm finally on a path where yeah, it's scary, but you know what? Fuck it. Fuck it. Yeah, fuck it.
SPEAKER_02Seriously, though. I, you know, I I'm only I'm only a few years older than you, you know. I'm not I'm not much much further ahead. But I will say that similar to you, what you're experiencing present day is something I had been experiencing for the last couple of years, you know, scared of leaning into community, scared of where things might be headed, scared of what that looks like for me. Relevancy has become a huge thing for me is how how do I stay relevant in a world I don't want to be relevant? You know what I mean? Like because, you know, a lot of my earlier years in the industry, they were so centralized around being popular, getting attention, building traction, making sure my engagement was hitting, all of these things, only to find myself fucking miserable.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because I was feeding the beast. I I just call it the beast because I was feeding everything else but me. And that that's the biggest act of love is self-love.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_02Because if you can get to a place within yourself where you love yourself, you feel good about yourself, you feel good in your body, you feel good in your mind, all of that is gonna go right into the world. Yeah, and that energy is just gonna keep flowing and pushing out of you and coming out of you that it almost becomes effortless to just be kind, you know, to just be a good person. Like I am so imperfect, you know, and I used to work so hard to be perfect, only to realize again that imperfection is fucking awesome because it it gives you freedom, it allows you to lift the veil and to just fucking live, dude. Like, and I think that's the most important thing we can do for ourselves is like if you find yourself not happy, if you find yourself just not in a good place mentally, emotionally, whatever it is, you have to look at yourself and say, Where am I denying myself of these things? Yeah, you know, like you have to get really, really, really fucking honest with yourself, and that's hard.
SPEAKER_00Really fucking hard. Yes.
SPEAKER_02But I admire that you are you are on that path, you're in that journey now, and I have even personally seen you move through some really hard moments, you know. But you're learning how to choose yourself, you're learning how to ask yourself those questions, and I think that's really great. Like, as much as you have felt safe and comfortable within the space that we've created at Better Days, Better Days has also created that space for me because of the people there, you know. Like who I am today versus who I was two years ago, if you put us next to each other, you would you would be like, those are two completely different people because they were, yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_00I've had everybody in the studio telling me like, man, you would have liked Jenna before, but like you, you there's a reason you love her so much. The growth, and they're all really proud of you. Just sort of shout out to Better Days Crew. They tell me all the time how proud they are of you.
SPEAKER_02I I feel that way, you know. I genuinely, for the first time in my life, and it sometimes I feel really sad saying that. Like, it took me 33 years to feel that from the people around me, but I have never felt so held, so supported, so fucking seen. Like I say one thing and I know that I'm heard. And in that, it has taught me to be that person for other people too. Yeah, you know, if all of these people in my life can show up for me on this, on this, in this magnitude, how can I become the person that shows up in the same magnitude? How can I meet these people where they've met me? And then how can I pour that into the world? Because if I feel this good from the love and support that I have, I want to give that to people, you know? I want people to know what that feels like. And you know, one of my biggest things is the process of reclamation, right? Reclaiming who you are. Because I think a lot of the time, like sometimes if we don't know ourselves well enough, we find ourselves in situations where we're like, fuck dude, how did I get here? You know, how did I let myself get to this point? And then you gotta do all that fucking shadow work, you gotta dig deep, you gotta look into the past, you know, you gotta sit with things that most of the time you want to avoid. Yeah, you know, but once you actually get into the process of, oh okay, maybe maybe I was this version of myself, but I'm reclaiming my shit. I'm gonna lock the fuck in. Ten toes down.
SPEAKER_04Lock the fuck in. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Because it's time, because at a certain point you get to an age where you realize you're the problem.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're the problem.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you are the reason, the decisions and the choices and the things you've allowed. It's all on you, and you have to take ownership and accountability of that. And then you have to decide am I going to continue moving forward with these patterns or am I gonna shift and am I gonna actually listen to the lessons that I'm being put into and absorb them and then move through them? You know?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think that's how we've come to where we are today is we have found ourselves in those positions, and now we're asking. ourselves, okay, I'm being faced with this obstacle, I'm being faced with this challenge. Am I going to ignore it or am I going to learn from it and take it with me wherever I'm going? You know? Yeah. So I don't know. I think it's all I think it's all just a part of the process. And I think getting older, something changes when you enter your 30s. You know, your mind sh your mind your mindset just shifts entirely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and I think a lot of the time you can choose to stay the way you've always been, or you can choose to stop tolerating your own bullshit.
SPEAKER_00Period. Period. You heard it here, guys.
SPEAKER_03You heard it here.
SPEAKER_00No, I agree entirely. And I think that I feel like specifically with the group of Better Days, and you haven't really gotten the opportunity to meet Fawn over at the Gilded Needle yet with our little crew over there, but you did get to meet Heather. Yeah. Heather's tight. Heather's awesome. Shout out to Heather. Literally, Heather is amazing. We love Heather. She's a little bit of like a like, she's a good idea of like what you can expect from the whole team over there. And um between both teams, I just do think that all of us are in that, maybe not in the same place of life all the way because we're all different ages, but I do agree with you that that's what led us all where we're at right now, together in our little community, and not even just in the studio, just like the community I've gotten to meet because of better days. Oh my god, crazy that there's other people, not in our industry, that I really love that are all so passionate and driven and loving, kind, wonderful perfe people. Um I agree. I think that it's all like a general all of us, our main goal is just, you know, we just want to be happy, we just want to be live at peace and do what we love and do what makes us passionate and love each other. And I I'm starting to recognize that now, and it's a it's such a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it it really is. And it it's something that, you know, I because I've I've experienced some of this to a certain scale, right? But I think now my perspective has shifted so much, has shifted so much that I I find myself incredibly grateful and I do not take it for granted, you know. And I think maybe in the past I have taken things for granted, but that's I've struggled with mental health my whole life, you know. I've been in dark fucking places in my head, and it makes it really hard to see the people who love you when they love you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But now that I'm in the place that I'm in, I look all around me and I realize just how loved I am, and that empowers me. That makes me want to just continue showing up the way that I am. I think one of my favorite things when I look back on the last couple of years that I've that I've held closely to me is I tucked in and I got quiet. And a part of that was because I was scared and I hated myself and I felt a lot of shame. Um but I realized that as soon as I tugged into myself, I began understanding myself. And then this really beautiful thing just started happening where people just started showing up. You know, for the first time I wasn't looking for attention, I wasn't looking for engagement, I wasn't looking to be popular or to have my opinion heard or nothing. I just accepted that I was whatever I was, and it's like as soon as I did that, like the world just unfolded and the right people came along. And like I said earlier, like I have just felt so held since. And what I love the most is that in correlation to our podcast at your service, is so many of these people come from similar backgrounds within the community of being in service to other people, and so I find that you are what you attract, and you attract what you are, you know, and I think that's the beauty of Better Days is that like it's cultivated its own community. I I didn't do it, like I take no credit in the community that has come to Better Days, like that was pure, purely the fate of the studio. Because I in the beginning, and you can ask everyone at the shop when we first opened, like, I didn't make those decisions. I wasn't I wasn't willing to. I from the get-go, I said, I'm gonna let people choose us. I'm not chasing.
SPEAKER_00I love that. It shows. I mean, it definitely shows. I mean, obviously, you're studio owners, so you had to make some like major decisions, and but you don't really like me that you're like, I'm just here. I I just don't care.
SPEAKER_02Um I've got decisions of what like the decisions I made was like we will not tolerate this. Yes, we will not allow this. Everything else that's meant to be will be. Yes, and and some things landed to the point that it got us to where we are today. Yeah, you know, and it's the same thing with you. Like, I I sat back and I was like, it'd be really fucking cool if we had a piercer, you know. Like I I've been a shop owner for fucking five years now, and I'm like finally in this place where like a piercer would be tight. And it was like I just thought of it, and one day you just showed up and you were there, and I was like, Oh, I know that I know them. Like I thought I follow them on social media. Let me go say hi, you know? And then it just naturally unfolded, you know. And I think even from the get-go, like I had to be really honest with you about where I had been and where I'm going, and you had to be really honest with me. Like, we both have baggage, but hello, we're in our 30s, baby. Who doesn't have baggage? You know what I mean? Like, who the fuck doesn't have baggage? If you don't, by the time you're in your 30s, something's really fucking important. You might be a fucking murderer.
SPEAKER_00Like, you might be like Well, that's the baggage.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, but nobody knows, you know.
SPEAKER_00Nobody knows, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so yeah, I think that, you know, everything, everything just plays out the way that it's meant to. And the way we show up in it and accept it is the biggest thing, right? So I I think overall, like, I'm really excited to see the future of where we're headed in this podcast, but also just the future and where we're headed in our careers, where we're headed in terms of conversation, where we're headed in terms of industry, like all of that excites me. Yes, none of it scares me. Yeah, you know, yeah, I'm just pumped to see how it all like one day I'm gonna be fucking 65 years old, you know? And I think that becomes more real as you come into your 30s as you're like, oh shit, dude, like I am not full of youth and craziness anymore. But I want to be really proud of the work I put in and the relationships I made and the people who impacted me and I impacted in return. Yeah. I want to look back on that one day and just feel really, really proud. You know? And I'm glad because even even at 33, I already feel proud and I just want to keep I want to hold on to that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know? I do get that. I do understand. I I think I I've also hit that point in my life. No, I think I have hit that point in my life where I've looked back and I'm like, am I proud of the journey? And at first when I started asking that question, the answer was no. I was not proud of my journey. But now that I look back on it, this was a year and a half ago when I initially really asked myself that question. I look back on it now and I'm like, I'm proud of my entire journey, but I could find more pride and be genuinely happy about the decisions I've made if I make a change. And I did. I started making those changes, and I honestly, the future does scare me, change does scare me, but something that doesn't scare me is getting old. I can't wait. Obviously, I can wait. I want to like enjoy life and everything, but I can't wait to look back on my life and look on the younger generations, not just in our industry, just in general, and be like, you know what? I am very proud of what I've done because I feel like I've contributed in my way, and I just can't wait for that day where I get to sit with all the people and I get to be with you, and we're 65 and we're sitting on the beaches in I don't know, Thailand or something. It's gonna be a fucking beach.
SPEAKER_01Like, don't take me to the desert.
SPEAKER_00Gross can't handle that. Then it will be on the beach, it will just be yapping down and be like, remember that when we started that podcast? Remember when you know we started working together? Remember this, remember that? Remember all these fun events, you know. Remember that 15-year anniversary for Better Days? Man, good times.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, Better Days in 15 years. Like, this is how in the fucking moment I am. Is like, I'm like, I'll be happy if we make it to three. Like, I'm I'm fucking stoked we made it to two years. Like, that's mind-blowing to me. So imagining 15 years of better days, like, I mean, I hope we all have better days for the next 15 years. Oh, absolutely. That'd be fucking sick.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02But I I have never even thought of that number for better days. No, never, no.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it just goes to show that you're you're here in the moment and you're focused on the moment and you're taking every step with pride and intention. Yeah. And I love that.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Of course. I mean, it shows in not even just in the space and in the community that has been built, it shows in your work. It shows in your interactions with clients, it shows in your interaction with strangers, it shows in your day-to-day, you know, we've been following each other for a long time, but we haven't really known each other that long. And in the short period of time we have known each other, we've really gotten to know each other pretty well. And I have watched you move with so much grace and intention in situations that you feel like you're not moving with grace and intention. So I've watched you go through some hard stuff recently. Yeah. And you still have moved with so much love and kindness and care to the world around you. And I think that that is that speaks volumes of who you are as a person and as your team, as you know, me coming in on it just really shows how much how you how much you value me as a person and as a piercer. And I do think that it's beautiful that you don't think about the 15-year mark for better days. You're just focusing on like, oh my god, holy shit, two weeks from now, it's it's two years. That's crazy. Because thinking about where you were at the beginning, you don't even have the the ability to think that far into the future because you it takes so much to continue living your life the way that you do with your wife and the way that you do with the team. And it's not just you, it's a group effort with the whole community. It takes so much time and energy to live in the moment that you don't get to think about that that future like that. And I think that's a beautiful like point in your life that you're in right now.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you for saying all of that. But it does mean a lot to me, you know. I I do think this year started off in a way that I would have never imagined, and so it has been really hard. Um I thinking, yeah, you know, would I be honored for better days to hit 15 years? Absolutely. You know, if it doesn't, I must have done something wrong along the way. Let's hope that doesn't happen. But I I think one of the reasons why I just don't think that far out anymore is because life happens, you know. And I I think if that's that's one lesson I've learned so far this year is life, life happens. And it happens to all of us, and it goes against all the plans that we make, it goes against all the intentions that we had, it goes against the dreams that you once were dreaming, right? And so I think it's really important to just put your focus in on what is the now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, because what matters is how you show up in the present, because that's that's what gets you to the 15-year mark, you know.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Um I think sometimes we can get just too ahead of ourselves thinking that we have control over the future and plans and all of these things when really you don't know if you have tomorrow. You know? And so I truly believe that I am somebody that is how do I make the most of today? How do I be present for the people in my life today? Um, you know, how do how do I make sure that my mental can carry the weight of the present commitments I have, you know? Yeah. And that's my wife, my family, my home, my team, Better Days, my community, you know, those are that's where my energy goes. Um because that's an it's non-negotiable for me. Um and I I won't let it ever be a negotiable thing, you know. So I appreciate you saying that because you know it it's very reassuring to me because I do tend to, again, struggle with mental health. So it's very easy for me to spiral. Um and I think what's what's nice is that, you know, as I said earlier, like I'm I'm truly surrounded by people who just continue to remind me that I'm I'm enough, even if right now is all I have. Yes, you know, so thank you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course. Well, that's literally the whole point in this podcast is we want it, we want to humanize ourselves. So I know we're we're laying it on thick right now with some heavy stuff, but you know.
SPEAKER_01Um we wouldn't be us if we weren't laying it on thick. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Like if we had the restriction of not being emotional on this podcast, I couldn't do it. I'm too emotional of a human being.
SPEAKER_01You and I try not to cry like four times this whole episode.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely. And you know, that's another point in the podcast is being real, being raw, being just, you know, as transparent as possible. I think that is, I can't say it's necessarily something that's lacking in the world. To a degree, it definitely is. There's a lot more other things, but something that is definitely lacking, specifically in our industry, is that transparency and that the being able to be open with one another without judgment. You know, we are humans, we are just creatures on a big globe in this big universe that we know nothing about. Yeah, you know.
SPEAKER_02Um we like to think we do though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we don't know nothing. We're just babies in this fucking universe, okay? Literally. Um, and yeah, something that is definitely lacking is just that human connection and being able to just remember that, like, hey, this person, 10 years tattooing, who you've made something of yourself, and you've made you have this beautiful community around you, you're still just human. And sometimes you just need days to just fall apart. You might come into work and you you think, you know what, I can get through it, and then an hour in you're like, you know what, I can't do this. And for the first time, I've found myself in a shop space where or studio space where you can come into work, and then you know what? You're like, fuck, I can't do this. And everyone around you is gonna say, Yeah, dude, cancel your entire fucking day, go the fuck home. You know, I've never had that really. You know, I've had places that have said that you could do that, but then they use it against you later. And or even just being like, I mean, obviously that's the beauty of all of us being our own individual like businesses, but also just having that community. And try not to cry. It is just such a wonderful thing that I have found myself to be part of, and that has you guys have all taken so much time to build, and I'm so happy that I get to be not just part of it, but to help actually continue that growth. And I really, really hope that in you know, through this podcast that we can give not just hope to people, but give them a community because you know you might not know us, you might be listening to us, you know, across the you know, other side of the country. We hope that you know that you have a community, you know, that we are we are also human, and we do understand that you have had a journey, and it it's okay to just just be, just exist, just take up space. It is absolutely okay. Um, trying to thought about that a little bit because I got a little too much.
SPEAKER_02No, I I think I think that's great, and I I I think that's a great way to end on that note of just like this is what our intention is, yeah, this is where we're headed. We see you, we want to have these conversations, we want to show you that vulnerability is a very positive thing. Yes, you know, and I think in turn we want to open ourselves up to more conversation too, you know. We want to have these very humanized conversations with other people so that we can continue with the momentum of just normalizing that I'm having a bad fucking day, dude. Like I'm a service provider, which means that I give my energy to people all the time. But I need to make sure that I give energy back to myself and those days where you come into work and you've got six clients lined up ready to go, and you're just like, dude, I I can't. I think we not only need to give each other permission to take those days, but we need to give ourselves permission. Absolutely. You know, I think one thing I've tried to take note of is catching it before it happens, you know, because I hate canceling on clients, you know. Like I don't think anyone in our industry like that, you know. But sometimes it's just necessary. Sometimes it's just I fucking can't, because I'm not trying to give you a poor experience, you know. Like if I come in and I'm having a bad mental day, you're not gonna have the experience you're paying me to have. And I'm not trying to disappoint you or myself, so I'm gonna call it before I even head to the shop. Yeah, you know, because one, I respect myself, and two, I respect your time, and I want you to get the full service of what you're paying for. Yeah. In terms of quality, tattoo, quality conversation, quality everything, you know, quality, just a quality experience, you know. Um, because people work fucking hard for their money, and I I'm let let me not be the person to take advantage of that, you know. Even and I think that's the other thing too, that I think at some point we should visit this conversation of how to balance that, you know, like people work hard for their money, so sometimes they get upset when when people cancel, right?
SPEAKER_00It's upsetting, totally hard. Totally at it, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But deduct the cost, bro. Yeah, like if you're gonna be the person canceling, and this is my opinion, if you're gonna be the one who's canceling on somebody who took a day off of work, take off the cost of what they would get paid that day. You know what I mean? Like, you take, you give, you take, right? Like, that's just how it goes. And I think a lot of us sometimes forget that like our clients are also human beings, you know? Yeah, and so as much as we need to remember we are human beings, we also need to remember the worlds that we're working within, and those people are people with real lives, real experiences. And so I think overall, at some point, we should talk more deeply about that. Yes. Um, but for today, I think this was a wonderful first episode. I agree. I'm super stoked to be doing this with you.
SPEAKER_00So I'm gonna be gushing over this all day. I'm gonna be riding this high. This has been this is everything that I wanted it to be. And then some so thank you, Chyna.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you, Brent.
SPEAKER_00I love you, dude.
SPEAKER_02Brent actually invited me to be on this podcast. Um it's a it's a lot of me just showing up and him taking the lead and me just kind of being co-pilot. Um, but I think we are both very excited to bring new conversation to the table to open up maybe some uncomfortable conversation, challenge each other, um, and you know, just at the end of it, just push each other to be better overall. Yeah. So yeah, with that said, thanks, Dom.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love you. Thanks, homie. I love you so much. We'll see you guys next time.