Episode 7 | A Million Young People Left Behind — Huge Opportunity or Risk for the Travel Industry?

With summer holidays just around the corner, a new way of travelling in the EU is currently rolling out - or is it? EES has only been in operation and is already facing a lot of problems - so much so that many airports are planning to bypass it all together this summer. Why is going so wrong and what are the options to getting things working again?

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:03

One conversation, three perspectives, honest debate on the story shaping travel.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Each episode tackles a live issue, big trend, or hot debate across the travel industry.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Each week we'll be joined by guests for honest conversations, strong opinions, and lively debate. I'm James. I'm Andy.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

I'm Will. Welcome to Let's Talk Travel.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Over one million young people in the UK are not in work, not in education, not in training. That's not a headline from 2008 financial crash, that's right now, today. Youth unemployment at 14.7%, the highest in more than 12 years. And the number of 16 to 24 year olds who are economically inactive for health reasons has nearly doubled in the last decade. Meanwhile, the UK's travel, leisure, and hospitality industry is short-staffed, underresourced, and desperately trying to attract the next generation of talent. So here's the uncomfortable question. We have a million young people with nowhere to go, and an industry that employs millions of people, creates careers, and connects the country. Why aren't these two talking to each other more loudly? And is it the government, the industry? Who's doing enough? Hi Will. And hold on. Andy's not here. But wait for it. We haven't got Andy, but look who's joining us here today. It's the one and only Claire Steiner.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

I know, it's exciting, isn't it? Our old podcast sparring partner, Claire. And look, no one better to talk about all things HR, which I know is a topic on everyone's lips at the moment and one that we're going to dive into today.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

That's right. And for those of you who didn't know, Claire is a director at Global Travel and Tourism Partnership, Director and Chair of the Education and Training Committee of ITT, advisory board member at Women in Travel, and a founding member of HR in Travel. In essence, she is the true HR professional we need to join us on this call. This is one of those topics that feels awkward to talk about in the travel industry because it sits right at the intersection of business, government policy, mental health, social responsibility. But to kick off this conversation, I want to really focus on these key numbers, which really are quite stark. The ONS confirmed this month that over one million young people aged between 16 and 24 are currently neat. So that's not in education, not in employment, and they're not in training. That's the highest figure we've seen in years. Youth unemployment stands at 14.7%. And the rate of young people economically inactive for health reasons, overwhelmingly, mental health has almost doubled since 2014. More than one in five of those neat report mental health conditions. Over two in five of them have a health condition of some kind. This isn't a problem. It's far deeper than that. But here's where the travel industry and hospitality industry enters this conversation because we know that one in five jobs globally are within our sector. We know we're one of the big country's biggest employers of young people. We know we have great benefits, flexible hours, lots of entry-level roles, real progression within our industry. And we should be perfectly placed here to be part of this solution. So today I'm going to ask you both: is it the industry not stepping up? Is it the government? And really deep dive into this. But before we do, I thought I wanted to set the scene with you both and ask you the first question, which is can you tell me uh at what age did you do start your first job and what was it and the motives for doing it? So why don't we start with you, Will?

SPEAKER_04 4:00

I was a bit of a late bloomer because I was packed off to boarding school. So it was probably 15, 16, and it was packing fruit, and it was a little bit ridiculous. It was repackaging uh what was it, 20 kilogram boxes of bananas into 16 kilogram boxes of bananas. So a lot of challenges there, but uh motivation was earn money to go traveling. It was as simple as that, you know. So that was it, and yeah, I actually quite enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

So and come on, Claire, before you became this amazing HR professional, which we're going to learn all about, tell me what was your first job?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

So, not funny enough, not that different. My first real job, um well, I started at 1415 actually working in our local fruit farm, um, you know, weighing strawberries and all that sort of stuff. But my first proper job, I guess, was at 16 when I actually was a cleaner at my local um country club and hotel. And I used to go in in the evenings and clean ready for the evening thing, and then I worked my way up when I was at college and ended up doing sort of bar work and working in the restaurant and stuff like that. So, yeah, like a lot of people, I I started that whole sort of trajectory in hospitality.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

And I can confirm mine was a paper boy, 12 and a half. I took over my brother's paper round and started delivering papers for the amazing sum seven days a week for £11.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Uh and I think you still do it at the weekend, don't you, James?

SPEAKER_03 5:25

I sometimes I thought like I need to, and the reason I did it, let's be honest, was I needed the money. That was my parents' motivation for me. If you want money, go get a job, and that was it. So it's great to see though. We all started off at a young age, and this is the part of the reason is because we're going to explore why this unemployment issue is so bad. So, you know, let's start off with that, right? The numbers don't lie. Why is youth employment bad right now? Will?

SPEAKER_04 5:53

No, I can I can only talk for myself in terms of as an employer and and how I look at things, how we employ people, and what attracts us, but also what puts us off. And I think there are there are probably three key things for me at the moment. Number one is uh the rise in national insurance. So the government very kindly put that off. But for our business, and we're not a massive employer, but that was you know probably the difference in an extra employee in terms of that different in cost of paying that. Uh, you've got the employment uh rights bill that came in. So, you know, all the dismissal protections, everything else like that. You've got to be a little bit more sure uh of who you're employing, what you're bringing in. And then I think, and I don't want to be sort of critical, but I think there is a question mark over the work ethic of some of the younger people in this world. Not everyone, I don't want to be dismissive on that, but you know, there was a stat that said that um sick leave in under 25-year-olds was double that of people over 25. And I think there's a question mark on that. So we've got to find a way, and I don't want to get political on it, but we've got to find a way to incentivize the government and the employers to actually attract these people, also have these people willing to get involved. You know, we all love this industry and we're passionate about it. What you didn't say was you two are currently in Spain working, uh, but that is the beauty of travel, and and that's one of the things we all got involved in. So we've got to find some way of making this work.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Claire?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Uh yes, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie, I think the government with the changes, particularly with the employment rights bill, obviously, I'm all over that. Um, and the changes to things like NI and First Aid Rights, for and some of which I agree with, by the way, but uh, I'm not saying I agree with the NI. Um but I think there are other factors at play here. And I think that the labour market, the work market has changed dramatically over the last 10-15 years, right? So we're all a bit older than that, and it's been a number of years since we entered. But I think we can't ignore the fact that the pandemic disrupted education. I think that threw a lot of young people into a situation where they lost a lot of confidence, they lost the ability to communicate because they were literally sitting behind a screen for two years. Um, and um and work experience and opportunities and early career pathways have changed as well. So because of challenges that employers have, um, you know, they maybe aren't offering the work experience that I I do believe we need, and I know we'll talk about that a bit more. Um, and I think also there's been a number of disruptors that are changing early careers, and and you and I have spoken, and this Will's favorite topic, because we used to talk about it when on our old podcast is AI is changing an awful lot of things around entry-level um opportunities for young people. But I also think um there's a real mismatch between what young young people think a career looks like and what actual opportunities there are. Um, and I just think that that we and and a lot of the workers you know that I do at the ITT through our initiative Future U is getting out and introducing young people to these career pathways. They don't understand still a lot about what careers look like in our industry and the breadth of those careers that are available. So, you know, I think there's a lot that we can do around that. Um, and and for me, I think the biggest challenge probably that we have and and educators have is instilling that confidence in the next generation. Um, I think a lot of them do. I mean, you know, um Will was talking about about some of the issues they have in the work ethics, but I see so much talent when I'm out there, I see ambition, I see real potential. Um, but you know, they it's such it's so complex for them, and the opportunities are getting rare and rare, and the number of entry-level jobs are dropping dramatically, and that's a big challenge for everybody.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

I I think this is really valid, what what you both have said, but one of the numbers that's really stark, we're talking about a youth unemployment of 14.7%. We have got European countries like the Netherlands, which is a third of that, and they face the same economical, political, technological challenges like the UK. So, how can one market, and maybe this one's a good one for you, Will, why how can one market do so much better than the UK?

SPEAKER_04 10:25

But it's I think there's a couple of things. I think one is society, I think it's in terms of our approach to these things. I think it is government and governance um in terms of some of these things. And just listening to Claire talking about the sort of COVID situation, I completely get that. But we've got to do more, we've got to incentivize more to firstly upskill these young young people to give them that confidence. And if they've missed that part of education, how are we incentivizing them, you know, in during those COVID years to come back in and to gain that confidence? Because you've got to find some way of making it attractive to an employer. This is what I come back to, and this is where I've I'm really challenged on is Claire is absolutely right. There is this kind of working from home, I have all these rights, I'm not sure I can be bothered. There isn't the same work ethic because of the COVID use. I think that I think we will all accept that. Um but something has to change because if you're an employer and I look at it and I go, well, why do I want to employ them? Why what's in it for what's in it for me, what's in it for the for the business? And that's been completely selfish, but that's the start reality.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

Okay, so if we sit out some of these businesses where efficiencies can be gained by AI, and we sit out the businesses where maybe they're not a large people employer because of the business that they operate, when we actually bring this down to travel, leisure, and hospitality, we are a people business. We are front of house, we are receptionists, we are bar staff, we're cleaners in hotels, you know, we are those perfect entry-level jobs into crafting a career in our industry. So where do we sit in all this, Claire? How can we be maybe a change factor in this current trajectory that we're on in the UK?

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Do you know? I think I actually I've always thought this anyway, that I think our sector has got such a huge role to play in helping tackle youth unemployment. You know, as you just said, we offer so many accessible entry points, right? Um, and and yes, we, you know, it's we have a lot of people who we do do travel and tourism as a as a qualification, but actually we look for people with you know attitude and curiosity, and and we always focus on things like interpersonal skills. But you know, um, I think for me, um, you mentioned what I call your your you know, when you when when I talk to young people and I go, name me a job in travel and tourism, and you get the cabin crew, you get the travel agent, you get the front of house and things like that. But what you don't get also is the marketing and technology and finance and operations and HR and customer service and all these other jobs. And and again, I think it's just this this misunderstanding of the huge variety of careers. So people sometimes think, I don't want to be a travel agent. Now we all know that there are some fantastic ways of getting on, and you start at the bottom and you you, you know, you work as a travel agent, you work in a call center, but actually they might say, Well, actually, I want to be in finance. Um, I like the found of the travel industry, but I don't want to start go down those routes. And then you just have to kind of get out there and remind them that they, you know, they could be a um an accountant, they could be a lawyer, and they could still work in our industry and have the benefits of working in this fabulous sector. So again, I think you know that this big challenge that we've always had is is I think the um the image problem that we have as a as a sector, which feels a bit counterintuitive because actually travel is you know, it's it's it's a fabulously vibrant sector. It's about traveling, it's about these opportunities, it's about you know discovering the world. Yet we still have an image problem when it comes to careers.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Yeah. I mean, the the the people interested in numbers get involved in financial protection, Claire, or payments, you know. There's plenty of opportunities in travel. Come on. But don't you don't you think it's it's accessibility though? And it it is that education piece that we've probably not been good at. But it for me, it comes down to I think it's not just the travel industry, it does come down from the government, it does come down from these policies. You've got to make it attractive.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

But let's let's look at someone like Marks and Spencer's. Great news that they've announced they're gonna do this new apprenticeship. Let's think about this in the grand scheme of things, the size of that unemployment number, and Marks and Spencer's announced a 1,000 application uh opportunity for apprenticeships, of which six months is the process, and you're not guaranteed a role afterwards. So the select the successful ones will be put in through into the into the role, which is right. You want that. You don't want Mark, Marks and Spencer's, you know, a an amazing business that represents the UK to employ the wrong people. But at the same time, it's such a small move on this very, very large dial, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 15:34

Yeah, 100%. And and the cynical in cynic in me says it's a news story, it's a bit of PR. You know, a time when we're all talking about you know youth unemployment, um, it's very easy to make those those sound bites and to get that news story out without really getting into the into the um into the detail. I'm can I throw a question at Claire though? I'm interested what she would do for the the travel industry to actually incentivize to get people to want to come into it because we are so passionate about it, we keep going, see the world, look at the amazing diversity of jobs and everything else. But where why are we not getting any sort of friction on it? Well, you know, any stickability on it?

SPEAKER_01 16:18

I think that there's there's a huge amount of really fantastic initiatives out there that work with trying to sort of drive young people to understand the benefits of the sector. And and you know, I'm very lucky that I'm involved in many of them, and as you know, it's a real passion of mine, and certainly Future You, the program I have found, you know, we we've got in front of like 40,000 students in the last sort of 15, 16 years, which is amazing and considering it's all sort of done with volunteers. But what we do is we bring industry to them to tell their stories, and this is uh you know a fundamental part of it is to bring the sector to life so that they have a better understanding of what it really looks like and what a career looks like and how they can see themselves in it. Um, and I think that's actually you know, getting them to understand the opportunities um and and how they can access them. Now, some of the big, big businesses that that are out there, and you know, we're we're one of those sectors you know, we have 20% of the businesses who employ 80% of the staff, but you still have 80% of SMEs who employ 20% of um of the people in travel. Um, those big people, they have whole teams dedicated to this, right? They have apprenticeship programs, they have people, you know, two or three big teams of people who run their apprenticeships, who run their early career services, you know, and they and they all do that not just in the UK but globally. But then you get your average SME that may have 10 to 50 staff, and they don't they might have a dedicated HR person, that person is looking after the business, and they've there's challenges then in terms of you know how they can easily access, because the red tape that still exists um in so many of these initiatives puts people off, as well as the cost that you were talking about earlier. Well, you know, that we need it, we need to be incentivized, it needs to be easy for us to access these things, um, and to make it um yeah, I guess more cost-effective for us to want to be able to um to employ these young people. I think there's a willingness there, but but we have all these barriers, and a lot of those are government-led.

SPEAKER_03 18:23

Um, so and and I think you know, something you've pointed out there is all the things that are available in this market, you've just pointed a few of them out, and I'll go through a few. And actually, as an employer will, it'd be great to get your insight of how many of these do you actually are made aware of and b utilize. So we have a youth guarantee that the government have said that 900 million will be expanded into the jobs guarantee for under 24s. We've got the Foundation Apprenticeships, which is just launched this year, which is entry-level roles for 60 focusing on the 16 to 21 year olds. The youth grant, I don't know if you use that, 3,000 pounds for jobs youth grants, £2,000 incentive for SMEs. We Claire mentioned about that. Um, £2.5 billion has gone into supporting uh work experience and training placements, um, particularly focusing on those leaving education and going into work. So I don't know if you've been contacted by local schools or or training facilities, Will. Um, but there are technically practices in place and projects in place um to kick start this. As an employer, have you had any contact? Are you aware of any of these things? What do you know, Will?

SPEAKER_04 19:35

You know me, James. Very little. Um basically, uh no. Um, I've heard of a few of them. We, you know, it would be great to have you know dialogue with with local schools. I I'll be honest, I haven't gone out of my way to to try and do it, but I'd be very happy to to open the door and to be approached and to engage with local schools. Or it doesn't even need to be local, it could be you know national schools. Um we want to get young people into work, but we want to do it for the right reasons. I you know, I as an employer, I want the right members of staff to come into the business. I want them willing to learn, I want them, you know, willing to progress. You know, I think that's something we all all want. Um yeah, but it's good for as an employer, the the you know, the playing field's got to be right. Um, and I think that's where it's wrong coming the other way.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Okay, and so if we just use that that Dutch example, right? And I've maybe positioned it to you both, do you think that is a a more logical approach for the for the UK to adopt? Where in essence you are told at that age when you're leaving school, there are three viable options for you. One, you are at a level from an education perspective and a grade perspective that you can pursue a um further education uh into like college university. So you get a chick and a pass to go and uh uh explore that. You are told that you aren't and you must go and do a vocational role, um, or you are told that you must go and seek employment straight away uh with an apprentice attachment to it. So you have to go into a role with an apprenticeship. So it's an apprenticeship, it's further education, or you should go get a job. Do you think that level of moving moving it much lower down in the process and saying we are going to help make these decisions for these children?

SPEAKER_04 21:36

I love it. Genuinely, I love it. I just think I've been having conversations with people recently, and I'm not there yet. My eldest is only 14. But you know, is university really viable if you're not, you know, studying a vocation that you want to go into, you know, because all you're saddled with is debt versus getting experience in the jobs market. So I think that would be a A handy way of directing people, whether we have the society that accepts it, I don't know. But yeah, I'm I'd I'd back that.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Claire?

SPEAKER_01 22:13

I'm not so much me, actually, funny enough. Um I I can see I think there has to be um a recognition that all you know everyone is different. So, you know, uh things like you know, you're not very good in terms of maybe writing exams, so therefore you're not seen. Maybe it's education robust, and you're much more um, you know, you're much more, I guess, um adept in maybe the more vocational qualifications. But that again it goes back to the slight image problem. I think there's still pressure from sometimes on your background that you know you see need to be seen to go to university. Some people might think that going to university gives them that extra leg up and it should do. But I, if I was a betting person, I think university is going to change fundamentally over the next 10 years anyway, because of things like the growth in AI and the challenges around that. Um, the bit I think I just want to go back slightly as well. Um, travel and tourism education in this country. 30 years ago we didn't have any, now we have a lot, but actually the government announced three years ago that they were gonna stop uh level three travel and tourism education. So we'd spent all this time trying to encourage and work and get some qualifications going that would fit for purpose, and the government then turns around and says they're removing all funding. We got together as an industry, which I think is is is a powerful statement, and all the associations got together. Um, and we have seen some success, and there are now some new qualifications going out that are actually um showing young people the benefits of the if they're not academic, um, so they're not going to go down the traditional A-level route, they can do these T levels and these V levels now. And tourism for the first time has been given a V level, has been given a you know um a place, if you like, in the new government's plans for education. So I think that's really positive, and I think it then also allows these young people more opportunity to see what's able to them and the different pathways from a from a we talk about career pathways, but actually there's those educational pathways as well. Um, I think universities that the you know the ongoing debate around student loans and repayments is is gonna have a big effect on that as well. Um, and we again we have an opportunity to really highlight the benefits of all these different routes and saying, you know, you our industry is one, and we've got lots of examples where you can come in and as I say doing an apprenticeship and maybe doing a level two, level three, but actually you can do degree-level apprenticeships. I mean, there are some changes again, the government, and we need to talk to them about that and the ages around it. But you can essentially, you know, stop your full-time education at 16, 17, and then end up with a degree whilst working.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Yes. And and you know, when you mentioned university, it's a whole other subject area about that. You could go in, study a degree that benefits the traveling street, like I did. I studied tourism management, travel management. There were degrees coming out, but now you do the same degree, you could be laden with a debt, you could be paying off for years and not actually be as fortunate, you could say as I and end up in a career that I wanted to pursue from a very young age. Um, this question is gonna is probably put you guys both on the spot, but just simply, what do you think is the single most impactful thing the government and the industry could do to make a change to really tackle this youth unemployment? So, Claire, you've just finished speaking, so I'll let you have 10 more seconds to think about it. Will tax.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Sorry, that that that that's the miserable approach, but uh there needs to be incentives in terms of employment as a whole. But I do think, you know, if if would there was an NI break or something for under 25s, if there was some incentive, I just think as an employer, you just look at it and you go, there's too much risk at that at this stage.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah. Claire?

SPEAKER_01 26:00

Um, I guess I don't disagree with any of that. Um, but I also do think, and I've said it a lot, it's up to us as a sector to ensure that we're promoting um the careers here is exciting, accessible, rewarding. So to get these young people really thinking about us at an early age at a time when they're considering their careers and then showcasing all the different routes um through that. And the government can help with that and the incentives can help with that. Um, but actually, we as an industry have still got more to do to promote ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

So I'm biased because I'm a huge fan of our industry. I love our industry. We're so lucky to have an industry that has all of those roles, which are perfect for these apprenticeship schemes and for youth employment. And for my penance, I would join Will and agree that if you could reduce the tax on particularly the maybe the under 21s, so they can earn good money, not through the uh forcing the employer to pay them, but through a tax break, I think that'd be the great way to get them into employment to see what great opportunities an industry like ours has. Um, because I think we teach so many more life skills in our industry. Um, but look, Claire, Will, thank you so much for this conversation. We could talk probably for hours, but then otherwise, Claire and I wouldn't be able to make it for our rose, which starts in about 45 minutes. So I will thank you, Claire. And before we go, I will pass you over to my wonderful colleague Will for Talking Travel or Talking Twaddle. Your beautiful assistant.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Thanks to our sponsor, TravelZoo, the club for travel enthusiasts. Join TravelZoo today for handpicked deals exclusively for members.

SPEAKER_04 27:52

Yeah, so Claire, every guest that comes on this show gets to play Talking Travel or Talking Twaddle. So I am gonna give you five facts from the world of travel. And it's very simple, you just need to tell me whether they're travel, as in true, or whether they're twaddle. Uh high score to beat, it's currently two out of five, uh, from our very own Andy Heddington. Um, but you, as the master of all things HR, with your hand, finger on the pulse, your attachment to ITT, I'm very confident you're gonna nail this. So, facts number one. The Eiffel Tower rose by up to 15 centimeters in the summer due to thermal expansion of the iron. Is that true or false? Travel or twaddle? Travel. Correct, strong start. Number two, there are more Airbnb listings in Tuscany than there are hotel rooms in the whole of Portugal. Travel or twaddle? That's a difficult one. I'm gonna go twaddle. Twaddle two from two, Claire Steiner. Okay, fact number three. Heathrow airport employs more people than the entire population of Lichfield. Travel. That is travel. That was very confident. Heathrow employs 76,000. Lichfield only has 36,000. Three from three. Fact four. Sleeping in an airport overnight is technically illegal in over 30 countries, though rarely enforced.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Oh, I like that one. I don't know the answer, so this is gonna be a total guess, and I'm gonna say travel.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

That is twaddle. Last one, we're still going strong. Can we make it four out of five to go top of the leaderboard? The word travel originates from the French word travail, meaning labor or suffering. Oh gonna have to hurry you.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

I'm gonna I'm gonna go say travel.

SPEAKER_04 30:05

It is travel. I don't think we'd all say that it was laboress or suffering when we travel, but that is the origins. Claire Steiner, you can hold your head up high, four out of five. That is brilliant, and you go to the top of the travel or twaddle leaderboard. Well done. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Well done, Claire. Well, that was another episode of Let's Talk Travel. Uh, and as you can tell, this one was important to us because the numbers are serious and the timing is urgent. A huge thank you to Claire Steiner for joining us today. Um, you know, it was great to have her opinion, her thoughts, and all of that insight. We can all agree the two things should connect more than they currently do. The government is moving, foundation, apprenticeships, job grants, the Milburn review, but the policy alone doesn't create the culture change inside our industry. That takes leadership, commitment, and honesty. Some uncomfortable conversations about perception, pay, flexibility, and long-term investment in young people. So we want to hear from you. Does your business have a youth employment program that you're proud of? Or do you think the industry is missing a generational opportunity here? Please reach out and let us know your thoughts. Remember to subscribe, rate, and share our podcast and connect with us on LinkedIn to continue the debate. Thanks for listening.