I Studied 5,000+ Offers. These Are The 8 BEST ($50-100M+)

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00:00 $150M in Sales Lessons
00:27 What Most People Get Wrong
01:28 Why Closers Win More
04:47 Reframing the Real Problem
06:37 The Pre-Pitch Framework
10:18 Selling the Plan First
13:38 Overcoming Fear Objections
18:11 The Most Common Sales Objections
21:07 Handling Price Like a Pro
30:01 Why Buyers Need a Deal
38:44 Best Books for Sales Growth
41:14 Habits of Elite Salespeople
46:26 Sales as a Service
48:46 Final Sales Leadership Lessons

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

So I'm here with Daniel Fazio, the founder of LizKid and Client Ascension. They do over $10 million a year. And so what we're going to break down in this podcast is between both of us, we've seen over 5,000 offers between our clients and people we know in the industry. So I'm going to break down essentially eight of the biggest, most nuclear, best offers that I've ever seen, doing like anywhere from 5 million a month all the way to 15 million a month. And then Daniel's going to break down some of the best offers he's seen to go from zero to 250 grand a month. So rather you're somebody just starting off and you're trying to figure out, okay, what's the best way to get to 100 grand a month or 200 grand a month? Or if you're somebody who's pretty advanced and you want to know what the top people in the industry are doing, we're going to cover it on this podcast. So with that said, I want to start with you. What's offer number one?

SPEAKER_00 0:45

I would say the most reliable, consistent one I've seen for somebody to go from zero and actually have a probability of being successful at all is performance-based cold email we gen. So you're just going to says the cold email guy. Yeah, well, well, the reason why. The reason why is because you gotta imagine if you're a beginner, you have zero credibility, you have zero case studies whatsoever, and you go to a client and you were gonna sell them weed gen and say it was through ads. The problem with that is that you need to get compensation, and the client also needs to spend money on ads. So now there's two forms of payments that the client is gonna pay now. With cold email, I said this before to you actually for the for the audience. Um cold emails for poor people. So what I mean by that though, is it's really it's very cheap, so you can send tens of thousands of cold emails a month for maybe like $500 a month, something like that. But you're only really gonna cap out at getting a couple clients a month, and that's if you have a if you're promoting a really good offer.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

So it's much easier to go to a client and it's hey, you pay me a $500 a month tech fee and then $300 for every call I give you. Right. It's so easy for them to just and then now what's a beginner gonna do in that? They're gonna work. You can cold email too to get those clients. Yes. Yes, exactly. For less than $500 a month.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Yeah. And we were talking about uh somebody we both know, Alex Burman, who I was I I don't know if you consider him the cold email go to G. No, he's yeah, he definitely. I think he's the OG. And but with him, I mean, he moved relatively up market, and I think he went after, if I'm not I could be wrong, but agencies who are mainly trying to get mid-marketed enterprise deals. And I mean, I know I think at some level, I I want to say his agency was doing 400 to 800 grand a month.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

And just doing cold email, you know, lead gen done for you for companies, specifically agencies who always suck at getting clients. Yeah. You know, they always can get clients for other people, but I suck needing it for myself, right? Yeah. So that whole thing, and I know he had booked like meetings with like Coca-Cola and Pepsi and all these Fortune 500. So I do still think it is a scalable uh business. But like we were talking about, the big thing is it's all about your list quality.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Yeah, and it's also if you want to be successful, you need it just a profusely high LTV. Like it just needs to be.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Well, anything that's like a cold outbound, cold Legion, high complexity to yeah, yeah, you have to have the LTV to cact. And one of the things Alex Berman did really well with his list quality is I know like he wasn't just downloading a list from like LinkedIn, but he there was these certain websites I remember where like these mid-market enterprise agencies would like they would list themselves on these websites. So you need like I would always call it what I was teaching clients, not that I'm like this cold email expert, but it's like you need a jumping off point to where you need to find where they congregate together, and then you're like, okay, this is not only the demographic of people I'm looking for, but it's also the psychographic. So like I'll give you an example. Could you, if you were going up to realtors, could you basically download a LinkedIn lead list or whatever? And then you're like, okay, I'm gonna email these realtors. Yeah, you could. Now, obviously, if they list on Zillow, that's like it's still a realtor, but it's a different psychographic of somebody they're already spending. They have an active listing. Or even better, maybe they're in Ryan Sirhant's uh get more leads, whatever it's called, coaching program, and you got access to that Facebook group somehow. And so you have, let's say, 5,000 people in there, and you're like, okay, these are banger people who I know are trying to actively grow their business. They're not just like some person with a license.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, the thing with the thing with selling offers successfully over cold email is anything that works on cold email 100% of the time is gonna work on ads. Oh, yeah, 100%. Anything that works on ads is not guaranteed to work on cold email. It's so finicky of a channel where you really need to have like it needs to be a done for you offer, and you pretty much need to have a guarantee most of the time. Because if you're how many cold emails do you get a day? I get like 30.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Well, I don't use a company email. So my email is like very obscure. Yeah. Nobody knows what email.com, yeah. No, it's not even that. It's a it's a it's it's the email I used to use for my first company that didn't work at all. Okay. But I've just always used it. Yeah. So people don't people don't email me.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yeah, well, it's it's all it's also interesting. Um you can't you it If you could try to predict whether something's gonna work on cold email or not, it's really just as simple as like just make a claim of some amount of money, they're gonna make slap a guarantee on it, and it's more than probably gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

And social proof too. Yeah, when we were doing our cold email campaign, we basically had like the personalized first line. Reason I'm reaching out is you know, we had this case study, and then we saw you were basically the same as this case study, so we want to do it for you too. And then it was like, here's like it would be like here's more information on how we work with clients or something. That would be like a VSL.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

You link a VSL.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yeah, but then but then I've heard also linking like tanks it.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

But back then it worked. But if you send like two emails a day per inbox, then you can get away with it. So there's all this like little tech.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Yeah, we won't go into the details. Or no, we would either send it or we would say, I have a five-minute video that explains, but just like send me a reply, then we would send it, right? And then, but dude, this took our response rate from 1% to 3% when we were doing it. I just did PS. Here's a short list of a bunch of clients we've worked with, and I just like bullet like 30 clients, yeah, and they were all like famous, basically. Yeah, yeah. I just was like, who's our most famous clients? Like, and so that literally took it to the next level. Okay, so that was a beginner offer. We're gonna talk about one of my offers. So this is uh Okay, I'm gonna first tell you what the offer is, and then I want you to guess the revenue. Okay. Alright. So this offer, this is in all of mine are kind of like businesses. I'm like, dang, like, I kind of wish I had that business type of thing. So this is a law firm that specializes in getting people out of timeshares. What do you think their revenue is?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

I've heard of this before. I would I would say probably like two million a month. No, I think they're at 15 million a month.

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Wow. It's either I know they're 10 million to 15 million a month, yeah. And I'm curious, guess how they generate leads. Probably just adds. To what's the funnel?

SPEAKER_00 7:20

This strikes me as something that would work with a lead form.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Yeah, it's a lead form or call funnel. Yeah. And so I'll give you a couple things. Uh, obviously, to get more detail on the offer, like I don't know how they get people out of timeshare, I don't know exactly how it works, you know, etc. But um obviously there's a lot of people, especially kind of like boomers, who, you know, you go on the vacation, you go through the timeshare pitch, we're not gonna buy, then they end up buying anyways. And then there's either buyer's remorse or you know, they do it for a couple of years, they're like, F this, I don't want to do this, I want to get out of this, I'm having to pay for this all the time. I don't want to do this timeshare thing and share this thing with all these other people. And so, but you know, the timeshare industry is like borderline, like predatory, right? So, like, I'm sure they're in like insanely bound contracts, so they can't get out. And so obviously, this law firm somehow gets them out of that. So, a couple reasons I think it works so well. Is number one, there's this concept of selling a $20 bill for one dollar. Have you heard of this? Yes. So Alex Becker's the one who have you heard is that who you heard it from?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Uh I've heard I've heard uh someone where's uh selling a Lamborghini for 30 grand, you're gonna find 30 grand.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah, exactly. So it's selling a $20 bill for a dollar, and I I heard this from Alex Becker first because he was the one explaining it for how like he did the marketing pitch for Hyros. But obviously, if you're in a timeshare contract and you're gonna spend, I don't know, just for easy numbers, uh 20 grand over the next five years, and then this is 10k to get out now, yeah, you're gonna save 10k. So I'm getting 10k, but you're also getting 20k, and it's but it's automatic because like it's not like a promise, you know, and this is where these types of offers are actually better. Like leaky bucket offers are better than like inflated claim offers. Yeah. Okay, yeah. So it's not a prom like because I get, you know, people could be like, well, I'm doing that, you know, I'm gonna give you leads, and you, you know, it's gonna you're gonna pay me five grand, but you're gonna make 25 grand. Yeah, but it this is already a sunk cost, right? So they know they're gonna spend 20k over however many years, or they could get out right now for five.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

And so it's an automatic savings by you paying me. Yeah. So another couple examples of this I'll give you, is like, again, I I heard this first from Alex Becker because the way Hyros's pitch is, obviously you won't be surprised about this, is it's basically like, hey, you know, your ads, your campaigns essentially are tracking can they're showing like the tracking so messed up to where if you let Facebook do it, you're gonna cut campaigns that are actually working, or you're going to keep campaigns on that are actually aren't working, and really you have no idea what's going on. So you're probably losing 30 to 40 percent relative of what your ROS could be if you were using this software. So essentially it's like, hey, you're gonna pay us, you know, five grand a month or whatever the software costs, and you're gonna make, if you're spending X on ads, at least, you know, an extra 20, 30 grand a month. Yeah. Makes sense. So another one of these that works really well is like we have a software, $.io, and most companies' pickup rates are like 9%, right? And so like there's a big sales training company, they do like $50 million a year, and he texted me when they started using it, and it literally took them from 9% to 20%. And so that's like there's a lot of reasons why that happens and how it's built, it's a more enterprise framework, it doesn't go through Twilio, it's more compliant, yada yada. But the point is that's the result, and so you know, if you double your pickup rates, it's like it's found money. Yes, like there's no thing. So I think that's part of the reason it works so well. Or that's reason number one. Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna give you two more reasons. That do you have something you want to say?

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Isn't it weird how some offers rip on lead forms and some just will absolutely not react to the other thing?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

It makes sense to work on lead forms, yeah. The other thing that reason this works so well, this is a quick one, is just barrier to entry. Because I'm like, I would really like I wish I had this business. Fuck, I'm not a lawyer. Yeah, you can't, yeah. I'm not a lawyer. Yeah. Damn it. So uh, and I think this is also why like coaches who teach coaches, or you know, you're a fitness coach, teach as a fitness people, it's like the coaching agency type of market, it's so low barrier to entry. I think that's why it's so much harder. Whereas like when there is like a you know, it takes you six months or a year even just to get into the industry, it just keeps a lot of you know, 20-year-olds in their mom's basement from starting and ripping ripping your ad. Like you can't get somebody who just like wants to make money. Yeah, like all those people can't rip your shit. So that's nice. The third thing, and I bet you won't get this one, and this is a very common thing with offers that hit five million a month, ten million a month plus, is that with that timeshare type of thing, by the nature of the problem it solves, it automatically qualifies your prospect. Okay, so you see what I mean here. So a couple things, yeah, right? Who generally right now in our K-shaped economy has more money? Is it the boomers or is it young people? Boomers. Boomers, right? Who's buying timeshares? Boomers. Okay. So that's number one. Number two, if you had the money to buy a timeshare, then you probably have money.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

I mean, I'm sure there's people who are like, I gotta get out of this contract because I'm, you know, things went sideways, we don't have money. But generally, like, there's probably people who have money, you know? And so I think uh you're going after people who are more wealthier, they're older, and then obviously if they bought a timeshare, you know, there you go. So I'll just throw in a little bonus. Since we're on the thing of attorneys, is another really good offer is immigration attorney. So have you seen the Nomad Capitalist guy on YouTube? Yes. So that guy, Hormozy talks about the story of like, you know, it's like there's a couple of things he saw that made him go big on content, and like the first thing was like Kylie Jenner became a billionaire or something. Then he saw Connor McGregor or The Rock or with their with their alcohol brand, and then eventually like Dean Graciosi told him to like stop being like a puss or something like that. You know, but one of the things is that and he was I think he was referring to nomad capitalists. I could be wrong, but the the example will still stand, is he was like overviewing somebody's offer and they had like a waiting list of like 3,000 people, and it was all from YouTube. Yeah. And that was uh Nomad Capitalists. Okay, and so they just have so much crazy demand just from organic and brand.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

I knew of one, it was um it was a lawyer who was helping people people in the US right after Trump was elected to move to Spain, and that offer was annihilated.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Yeah, well the the Nomad Capitalist guy he blew up after COVID. Yeah, yeah. Because people were like, this place is crazy, I gotta get the F out of here. So that's another good one as well. So, anyways, that's my offer number one. We'll go with your next one.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Um, I would say another one is e-commerce email. But you have to spin it because it's a low barrier to entry. Anybody could just use AI and make a bunch of emails. So, what is the barrier to entry? Spinning it as a one-time setup. So, like for anyone who does email marketing, like you've always got like someone ops, you have the welcome flow, you have the abandoned cart flow, and then you have the recurring service where you send the five broadcast emails a week and you do the SMS and all that, and yada yada. Uh, there's probably thousands of agencies that sell this. So every single one of them are like they're fighting hard for clients. So, what I had a bunch of my clients do, I just had a dude who hit over 500k on doing this, was um saying we'll set up 52 emails across nine automated flows for a one-time payment, no retainers and in the ad, like really hammering hammering on the idea that there's no retainers, you're not gonna pay anything. They get them on the phone. You're saying, yeah, it's a $4,000 setup for all this, but I do have a recurring service that's $4,000 a month. And if you sign up to that, I'll just give you the $4,000 setup for free. Right. Gets like 80% of people wanted that, and that's the whole business model, and it absolutely rips. And now, like in the delivery of it, you just you using like claw design to make it, and they're they're like really hammering that now.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

And that's email for e-commerce businesses, basically. Yeah, and so you could actually run ads to that, it sounds like because the offer is actually good. Because you know what most people do is they look at all the they use uh what's that software that uh it's like a web built with. You know what built with this? They use built with, they look at Clavio, and then like Shopify and Clavio, take care of it. They're using Clavio, and then they called email, and you get like not 900 million of those. Yeah. So no, I like the ads approach pretty well. You know, it reminds me of one of my friends. He has a thing for e-commerce where it's like his offer is I think um do Facebook ads with us and we'll run your emails for free. Yeah. You know, it's like you could just it's it just sounds good, but you could just have a high price. Like, like it's it's one of those things that it's just you just gotta sound what I say about ads is all it really, you know, we talk about like mechanisms and things like that. An easy, like low IQ way to think about it is just what is making you meaningfully different that's gonna make somebody be like, Yeah, I have no idea who the fuck this guy is, but I'm just gonna reach out. Yes, there's gotta be like a it's like we try to say like you know, fancy positioning and mechanisms and whatever. Just the easiest way to think about it is just imagine some dude at six in the morning on his toilet, and then he's like, you know, half like nap brain, like whatever he's scrolling, most of it's like politics or something, and then he sees an ad and like does no idea who you are, instantly thinks you're probably a scam, but for whatever reason there's something different about it that makes him want to reach out. Rather, you're like talking more specifically to his problem, whatever it is. That's like really what the key is. It just and it it's so simple. I mean, it's not easy, right? But it is like straightforward if you think about it that way.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Yeah, it's it has to be like an actual mechanic of the offer, not just because you say that to someone and what they think of is like, oh, let me come up with some unique mechanism name, like some display. But if you just make the offer intrinsically have something that is attractive, like one-time payment or a guarantee, it just rips so hard. And I'll give you a I'll I'll say when I share the next one, but like if sometimes you could just say what the offer is, and just because of that, like that is the value proposition that actually gets you.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Well the thing is, is like I've been redoing the setter thing for a bajillion years. But when I first started it, I hit the timing exactly right because setters weren't really a thing in the high. I mean, you know, outbound salespeople have been a thing forever. But in our industry, there was a shift between like you could just you know that back in like 2016 through 2018, the whole thing was like, okay, it's all authority-based marketing, so you're gonna you're gonna reach out to me and you're gonna book this call and you're gonna watch this video, and then okay, why should I work with you?

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

And then obviously, like a known tactical blown tactic. So like that phased out over time. And then what really started to work really well was like nobody was calling their freaking customers, like, no shit. And so there was a big shift in like 2020 to 2021 of people knowing like oh, I need to get like this setter thing down, and I just kind of like hit that wave right at the right time. So yeah, it was an offer guarantee, but like it was also knowing where the market's at. Because again, if I was if I started the I wouldn't start my business, if I started over from scratch today, like I wouldn't start the same business. You know, the only reason I still run the same offer is because I have economies, like I have like an economy. I also just own the category, I have insane social proof that nobody can match. Like, I'm kind of like like I own that category in a way. And then we also have such back-end revenue, so it just makes sense to keep doing it, obviously. Yeah, I mean, a lot of times we just say we'll place you with a setter. Yeah. And if they don't work out, you know, we don't pay.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

I think what's interesting about guarantees is people think if you have a guarantee that there's going to be an outlandish amount of people who request a refund, but it's just not true.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Yeah, I mean, you'll you'll get more, but you'll get more sales. And the thing is, is the guarantee doesn't really I mean, if you're good at sales, the guarantee doesn't really help the sales process. It's to get them on the phone, yeah. It's just to get them on the phone. Um, it doesn't really help that much in sales, and most of them forget that there even was a guarantee. But granted, you still want to state it and state the terms or the conditions for it of how they qualify because they will see the ad again after they buy, and then they're gonna be like, oh, I can just repunt it anytime. Yeah, yeah. You know, so you do want to be ethical and say it all up front, etc. If you're enjoying this conversation and you want to be in a room of people who are just like the people I have on this podcast, so you can ultimately network with the highest level people in the industry and up-level your business, you should fly out to meet us in Scotland at the end of July. So this is a one-time opportunity where you can get a ticket to actually be able to come if you qualify to network and get content and ultimately work with me and my team and so many other high-level speakers in the industry in Scotland at the end of July. So you have to be doing at least $100,000 a month in your business to qualify. If not, don't bother with it. But if that's you and you're trying to scale to 10 million or even 20 million or 100 million a year, there's other people in the room who have done that. And the speakers I'm gonna have in Scotland have done that too. So check out the link in the description and see if you qualify. And if you do, book a call with my team. We'll talk about the ticket price to be able to come. This is the only time you're gonna be able to do this, so take advantage of it. Now, back to the podcast. Okay, you ready for number two? This is again, you're you're the beginner offer guy. I'm I'm going, I went as nuclear as I could possibly be. Okay. So this isn't a specific well, I will I will give you some specific ones. I don't want to dox uh everybody, but one of the big categories, so I have three well, we we we've had more than three. But I there's three people I can think of right now that are above four million a month, and it's just health coaching. Or like health coaching with a slight blend of either telemedicine or functional medicine. But I you know, it's so interesting. I've always said for the longest time, even going back years and years ago, I don't know why a lot of health coaches want to get to like two, three hundred grand a month and then then teach other health coaches how to be health coaches. Yeah. It's like, well, dude, like, are you aware of your industry? Like, there's people in your industry. The largest game of the planet ten million a month. You know, like V Shred does like 300 million a year, or maybe 300 million total or 100 million a year, whatever. It's a lot, right? And so I've never understood that, but I'll give you we have one client right now, I don't want to dox them, but they're at like five million a month, like health coaching, functional medicine. Then there's my friend John Matson, I had him on the podcast recently. He's doing four million a month, and so what he does really well is you know, it's interesting for him, he's an anomaly in that space, in the sense where he does a call funnel, which most of them don't do, and he just has like his messaging is really good to where he gut punches the pain points only high net worth people who are in his market would resonate with, and if you're like a really broke person, you wouldn't resonate with. If this is like one of his ads, but like an example would be is like is like yeah, you think you're rich, but your Rolex doesn't look good when it's like hanging over your gut or whatever it is, right? Yeah, yeah. And I and obviously like that doesn't resonate with somebody who is not experiencing that. So he's been able to almost it's interesting, it's like his target audience is basically I think of it as high net worth accredited investors, but he's segmented it down to just like people in his market who are within that larger market, if that makes sense. So he does it through a call funnel. But I have another client who has done over 10 million a month health, and um what's interesting for them is their ac I don't want to dox them, but their acquisition is basically like a low-ticket ascension, which most of the big ones they shift there eventually. And it's a webinar to where you buy like a test kit and then you get the test kit in two days, and then you do the test, it's like a P on a strip, and then you have to like to know how to read the test, you have to show up to the sales call. And so smart you get such good show rates, yeah, and then it's kind of almost like you're running like a diagnostic. It's almost like a quiz funnel. Yeah, and so I always say like the best discovery process in the world is when you have a prospect's blood work. Yeah, like I could probably I mean, dude, I mean, I could probably there is compliance things, you can't just like take somebody's blood work and pitch them something. You gotta do it in a compliant way. There has to be oversight from an MD, etc. But a salesperson can still do it if you set it up the right way. And if you have somebody's blood work, man, I could probably close like 80-90% of people. Because you're you're showing them literally what's true, not what they think is true, how they it's like what's on the platform. I like it how they do that. I think that's very good. A couple other things they do well is they have a great uh mixture of brand and paid ads. And so most of their stuff's from ads, but their brand is big enough to where I this is how I think about uh the real power of brand, is not necessarily the lead you get from the brand, even though they're gonna be, you know, if you get a lead from Instagram organic or YouTube organic, yeah, it's gonna be higher quality than ads, right? But it's not just that, it's almost like this horizontal enabling layer that just makes all your ads do so much better. So I'll give you an example, and I've told this uh I don't think I've told it on the podcast, but I've definitely said it in videos before. Is like I have this one client, like everybody know who it was, but I shouldn't say who it is. They do several hundred million dollars a year, right? And I and they're one of the only people I work with one-on-one. And I was looking at their ads one day and I'm like, man, that ad sucks. And I'm looking at another ad, like in their ad library, I'm like, I'm like, these ads are just not good. You know, like if I ran this ad, I would get precisely like a zero ROAS. Yeah. Like it just wouldn't work. And then, you know, a couple weeks later, I just happened to ask, like, you know, how are your ads doing? Like, what's going on with your ads? And they're like, oh dude, like getting like $10 leads and our cost per sale is whatever, and our ROAS is like this, and it's like better than my metrics. Yeah. And it instantly made the connection. It's it's not because I don't know what a good ad looks like. Like, I know what a good ad looks like. I've seen thousands and thousands of offers, but I was like, oh, it's because this dude is so famous that yeah, like they can just take organic content, snip it out, put it as an ad, and it's not even really like an ad, but that's like the 13th or 14th in pre like your first ad impression is really the 13th or 14th impression in general, or maybe way more that that person's actually seen.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

So you're gonna get way lower. It's like retargeting without retargeting. Yeah. You know? And so you're gonna get way lower CPMs, way higher response rates, and you can just get way more scale.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Dude, speaking of retargeting without retargeting, set your thank you page videos as unlisted YouTube videos. And if you do that, the next time they open YouTube, they'll see you.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Yeah, I've heard that story. And I should probably do that. We like to have the analytics with Vitalytics and yada yada. But yes, that's right. I probably should I it works. I probably should do that. Oh, and then the other thing I just want to say about the health coaching clients I have doing really well. So this goes for John and the also the other person doing 10 million a month. And John's my friend, he's not been a client, at least yet. Um, but almost all of them, not all of them, not almost, all of them, every single one has a price point of like 10k. And so this is something that's super interesting. All of like the category kings or the best people in their respective industries, like if I've worked with them or I know them personally, the commonality they have 99% of the time is at the their highest price in the industry. Yeah, and so like my health coach person who does 10 million a month, pretty much highest price in the industry. Um, my you know, an agency client that I have doing several million a month, high like their prices are like minimum 20 to 50k. They have 100k a month retainers with some clients. And I could go on and on and on with like each kind of different category and the respective category king. But again, out of all those categories, the clients I've worked with doing the most money are also the highest price.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

And what's so it makes perfect sense because essentially it's like your pricing is the initial point in your business that affects every other point in your business. So, number one, if you have higher pricing, you have better clients. Duh. So you have higher pricing, you're naturally getting better clients through. You also have higher margins because the ad cost is probably relatively the same no matter what. And then because you have higher profit and higher gross margin, you can hire it's like a flywheel. So you have more profit to be able to pay more to salespeople, which means higher conversion and even more profit, more profit to invest in client fulfillment, which means more like actual ascensions, and then so on and so on. And so I think the the price point is a huge thing too, which is why, like in business, a lot of people say like all business strategy is really just pricing strategy because you're really just at the end of the day just trying it to be as unique and non-commoditized as possible, so that you don't you're not suspect to price elasticity, right? And then you can charge as high as price possible, which gives you way better unit economics, it's easier to scale, you can do more revenue with less salespeople, you have customers that can come in who actually have money and they can do a back end, so you have higher LTB to CAC, and then your team is better, so that every single point along the company is gonna have higher conversion, etc. So, anyways, that's my offer number two. Number three for you.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

I would say ad creatives, static ad creatives. So we got one, I got one client right now who's ripping, and now I've had other people try to sell just static ad creatives before. It's always really not done well, but then we come up with an angle with it. It was we'll make you we'll make you ten new static ad creatives per day optimized for meta andromeda. And then right when we started doing it like that, his CAC for like a $5,000 a month client is like $1,000. And like consistently signing a bunch of these people just by making static ads. Yeah, just for static ads. It's 10 a day, and he'll scale it up. He can do like 20 a day, 30 a day. A lot of it's built with AI. Um that's pretty weird. But I find it interesting that sometimes there's just the whole market when Meta Andromeda gets released is just specifically talking about meta andromeda. It's the only thing anyone ever talks about, everyone's got a solution to it. Meta since then has been super unstable for a lot of people, but particularly e-com people. Um and then if you just say you have the solution to this problem that they're they're they're worried about, then they're buying the shit out of it. So yeah, yeah, it hits the trend very, very well. That's good. And it's super easy to fulfill because again, it's just AI, yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Dude, I'll I'll do you make do you do you make statics? Do you run any static?

SPEAKER_02 29:38

We do. What's interesting is some of our static image ads are some of our best ads right now. Yeah. Even from a CAC perspective, not just cosmopocall, which makes no sense.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

I don't know why. I make mine a manus. Oh, really? If you if you if you throw it, like if you give it just 10 examples and you say, hey, make me a hundred static ad curatives. It will do it just using nano banana. Just in they're actually good. So I I can launch like a hundred statics a day if you want to. I don't do that many, but it's very easy to fulfill it. We should launch more. We should. Yeah, but it's it's it's almost like at a certain point, it's just overkilling it actually. You're really just not gonna you're gonna find an angle, and it's like that's gonna be pretty much the angle that works forever. Yeah, what I what I mean by that is like yeah, so what is an Andromeda saying to do? It's like uh uh come up with tons of different angles and whatnot, but if we're talking about these service-based offers, where it's like like your setter offered 40 book sales calls guaranteed, and it's like to say anything really beyond that is gonna be inefficient compared to just saying that, generally.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

I I would say that's true. The way I think about it though is like if I can, you know, so the offer let's say the offer is creating static ads or creating ads for companies. So there's an the angle, or the overarching angle, and then there's a million different ways you could say that angle, is the Andromeda angle. But I would also always be putting like 10% of my effort into trying to find like a new angle, because if I get that new angle and that angle works too, it's almost like I'm scaling with two funnels. You know, because that might hit a different pocket of the audience that just like absolutely rips, you know. So there's a that's kind of how I think about it.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

You run um you run direct to app a lot now, yeah?

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Direct-to-app, dude. I do direct-to-app. I mean, dude, we do some of it. If we can get an opt-in to work, I'd rather have an opt in because I get an email and a setter lead. I almost exclusively do opt-in. I I I like the opt-in if it can work, but if the opt-in doesn't outproduce by like so the opt-in campaign, I'm willing to pay more for Cosper Book Call, but 30% is about the cutoff to where then it doesn't make sense anymore. Yeah, yeah. Or like, you know, maybe 40%. So I do run opt-in, but we also do add to like VSL page with a video application, and then we do add to ad. And honestly, it all works. If we have a winning ad, we'll do all three. So it's like different formats. Yeah. Anything else on that offer? Or you want to move on?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Um, no, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

So it kind of along the same theme is offer number three is a UGC agency. So this is somebody who's working with us, and again, I won't say who it is, but they're doing a million a month, super profitable, and like crazy, crazy high margin. Call funnel, yeah. Pretty basic. And so a few things I think they did really well, and this is a theme I've seen do really well for a lot of people, is naturally like if you you know, just because you're in this industry doesn't mean you work with people in this industry. Now, I happen to do that. I kind of like I'm in this industry, I work with people in this industry. I think you kind of do too. But what they did is they started doing that, they started doing UDC like ad creatives and videos for companies in this industry, but then they pivoted to home service, and that's when they just took off. And there's another person who's actually on the list who all who also did that, who I'll talk about later. But like let's let's talk about a couple things with home service. So the thing with our industry is like because there's no barrier to entry, you know, the barrier to entry is you might wake up and you're a coach. You know, like that that might be that's the barrier to entry, right? So because of that, we're like one step away from biz off. Yeah, right. But they went to home service. So if you have a remodeling business or you have an HVAC business or you have a solar business or whatever it is, I mean, you don't wake up and that's what you're doing. There's kind of like not only just an effort gap, but you know, there's fixed costs involved. I mean, there's a level of intent and seriousness that those people are gonna have that our market doesn't have, and also they're more likely to have some money or at least credit. Yes, right. So I've seen a lot of people take their offer into a different industry, and that was the thing, and it's always they took it from the coaching market into a different industry, and then bam, nuclear, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Well, it's businesses like that are so nice as well because you're not responsible for the performance. If you're just like what I said earlier with us, my static ads, and with UGC as well, it's that you just give the deliverable, and that's what your job is, and whether they get results with that is entirely up to their own business. And they're they they when it's when when it's a productive service like that, it's just transferring the responsibility over to them, and it's almost like you're selling oil, yeah, as opposed to selling a like a fully finished car.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

It's like so much more stable of a business.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Yeah, I I completely agree. And then so, and this kind of goes with my second reason I think this works so well, is they have very low churn.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

And they also sell like at a very premium price. And the reason they can do that is if you're a home, like you know, in our industry, if you know, naturally the skill set to really have is a marketing and sales. Like, you know, Hormozy talks about you have to know like what type of business you're actually in. So if like you're in the software business, you're in the product business. If you're in the home service business, a lot of it is like the fulfillment and the management of your tax and advisors type of business, right? It's more supply constrained. In our industry, it's very much a marketing and sales business, right? Like, yes, you have to have a good product. If you have a good product, that's good. But generally, the people who are the best marketing and marketing and salespeople of their products are gonna win, whether that's organic or paid or whatever. And so the thing is with the home service guy, does he really, first of all, it's not really the number one constraint in his business. He knows he needs to run ads, but does he want to run ads? Does he have any interest in it? No. So naturally, structurally, the churn is gonna be lower, right? Whereas, like, let's say you hired somebody and you were like, okay, great, I got some creatives, these creators are working, you're also probably gonna be like, dude, I could probably make my own creatives and do my own thing. And like you're just naturally more prone in our industry to to want to do or take the marketing internally eventually, right? And it's also harder than probably a home service. So there's that, and then also one thing they do really well is they take a red share with some of their clients who um do really well and like run their ads for them. And so those can be like $10,000, $20,000 a month contracts too. So there's that, and then they kept their team really lean. And I think that so that's part of the reason they have such good margins. And you know, you see this in agencies, but it can be any business, really, is so many people. I I don't know, you know, I think some of it's laziness, and I think some of it is like uh this concept of playing business to where they start to make some money and they're like, Well, okay, like I went to a mastermind and this person started talking about their COO, so I guess I need a COO now. You know? Yeah, and and that's common shit for masterminds too. Like, people go to a mastermind, they they talk about their problem. The person like in the room, they don't know how to fix the problem. But what they do is the only thing they can say is, oh, who not how. Who could fix that problem? Okay, you just have vague advice. But like they just tell you to throw money at the problem opposed to like giving you tactical advice. And I'm not saying like who not how and finding the right person is always it's you know, that's it can be good advice in some cases, but you know, I don't know about you. I've seen so many people in our industry who do 200, 400 grand a month, and then they're like, Yeah, my C-suite team. I'm like, the fuck you talking about your C-suite? I was like, I was doing 200 grand a month by myself. Like, what do you mean you have a C-suite team at 200 grand a month or 300 grand a month? And they're like, Yeah, I'm not making any profits. Like, yeah, it's like you're not working. Yeah, like you gotta like what do you have a client uh sales director for? You got one sales rep. You know, a client success director, you have like a hundred clients. Yep. It's like when I had a hundred clients, I just did it myself. You know, probably not. I had one extra coach, but still, so they didn't fall for that trap and didn't a lot of people just overhire. I don't know if you have an idea of why you think that is, but I think it's part of it, is it's it's like playing business. They think it's what they should do to do business. They're like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do, number one. And then number two, I think people just don't want to work.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Yeah, well, it's it's uh I find it's uh it's normally an either extreme that either underhire or overhire, and you you larger people tend to overhire. Um but on my end, when I'm we're working with a lot of beginners, like you'll get people stuck at like 30k a month or 50k a month, and they're like, I I can't, I can't like my I need I need to change my offer, like my my cold email isn't working. I'm like, bro, what's actually happening here is that you hate fulfilling for clients so much because you are the one who is personally responsible for it, so you were subconsciously sabotaging your sales calls. Like that's that's what the problem is. So it's interesting that you observe the complete opposite of what I see from my beginners'.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

You know, a beginner might not want to hire their first hire. That's kind of common, but yeah, what I'm talking about is somebody who's like, you know, they're at 100 grand a month, 200 grand a month, and they just think they need a whole team.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

You know, I'm a very like especially and I think we're gonna trend back pendulum-wise with AI of like trying to get as much done with as least amount of people. Yes. Because the thing is too, is once your team gets you once you add people to your team, everybody now thinks that person is essential, even if they're not. And it's hard sometimes to tell if they're not or not. You just have to like kind of like Elon Musk says, you have to delete until you delete too much, and then you kind of know what the line was.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

But a lot of times you'll be like, oh no, we have to have this person, we have to have them. They do this world, they have to. It's like, no, like you don't. Yeah. Just delete, and then you figure it out. But it's very like once you make these hires, it's very hard to go backwards. And you just trick yourself into thinking, well, we have to have I mean, I'm sure you've probably let go of somebody in your company, or they left, or they quit, probably. And they quit, and you're like, oh my god, how are we gonna replace this person? Then like a month later, you're like, What was that person doing?

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yeah, it's completely fine.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Yeah, I had I had this one person who um got really drunk, and I had this was years and years ago. They and they were kind of a key man risk. We thought they were a key man risk within the company, and they were like, oh my god, this person does so much, they do so much stuff. And then we had an off-site, they got so drunk that I was like, Yeah, you know, after after the actions of last night, I think it's appropriate we gotta let you go.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

So then we come into the next week and we're like, okay, this is gonna be all hands on deck. We gotta replace this person, we might have to hire a COO, we might have to do this, we have to do that. And then we just figured out they weren't they were doing stuff, but we just like delegated it to a VA. Yeah. It was not even that bad. It was like not even that bad. But we thought they were like this multi-six figure hire or something. You know, this is beginning phases of my business, but still, okay, your next offers.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

All right, next one I'll say is from personal experience, because we just started doing it and it's annihilating. And I want to talk about why I think that is and kind of like my perspective on it is done for you cold calling. Yeah. Now, the first the first thing I want to say about it is it is so easy to sell this thing. It is completely absurd. And I have a couple observations as to why. Um, the first is that nobody sells it because it's logistically intense. Yeah. Like it's it, it is it is way and they don't want to do it. Yeah, it is so difficult to consistently hire and manage cold callers, like like so, so profusely difficult to do that. Now, before we started this, we were talking about like the differences uh we sell a done-for-you cold email, a done-for you cold calling, and we've been selling the done-for you cold email for a long time. Right. Um But as I said in the beginning of this, where I said cold email is for poor people, because it's like you're you're not gonna you're not gonna really make hundreds of thousands of dollars a month with it. So, however, it tends to be that cold calling does book tons of meetings extremely easily, like way more easily than cold email. Yeah. So you go from selling like the cold email offer, you might have a client and maybe they'll get like five, ten meetings a month or something like that. But then you put them on cold calling, and now they're getting like 50, 60 easily. I'm like, oh, this is like this is this is way easier to just get results for people. And it's like if you're gonna so uh so now we can charge way more money, and it it uh uh the results are justified for the amount of logistical intensity that we have to uh the to execute to do it. Um now the next thing I'm kind of bullish on with it, um, because people have said, well, what about AI? What about like AI callers? I'm like, oh no, no, no, that's illegal. Yeah to $15,000 fine every time you do that.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Especially to people who haven't opted in. Yeah, I think there's a lot of regulations, and I don't want to go into it all right now, but if you're doing true cold calling calling true thing, which is what is what you're doing, I know. Yeah, uh, yeah, you can't just have like a I mean, just think about the implications of that. You'd have like these companies just that calling millions of people a day. Yeah, you know, it would destroy your phone.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Yeah, so just to give you to give you like a history of cold email, for instance, it used to be that you you would have to pay $59 per month per connected inbox to a sending tool. And then there were other tools like instantly, smart lead that came out where it was like, no, it's $29 a month to send 10,000 total cold emails across as many inboxes as you want. So then that made it so everyone on the planet was getting like 100 or 200 times more cold emails. Yeah, AI made it even worse. So what that did was it lowered the cost for people to even start cold email at all, which therefore increased the supply of cold emails, which therefore decreased the results of everybody aggregately for cold email. So cold email, the results of cold email got really terrible over the coast uh over like the last three years or so, the last three, four years. When it used to be really easy, you could book 50, 60, 70 sales meetings a month just by unpersonalized cold emails like across a couple inboxes and was like a couple hundred dollars a month. Now, with cold calling, because it's so logistically intense, the supply of people cold calling is so low. Yeah, no one gets cold calls. And when you have a good cold caller and you connect them, and it's like, dude, this is crazy. We're booking so many meetings. So like I want it to be hard continuously. Yeah. And going back to like the moat thing where you talk about with the lawyers, where it's it's hard to start this thing. Yeah, yeah. Like it's you can't just like you you Now, comparison to cold email, because the results are so low, you can't like really justifiably charge enough money for it to be very profitable for you as the seller of it unless you're selling it to an extremely high LTV customer. Cold calling now, we can just take some like average person as long as they have an LTV of like 10,000 or 20,000 in their customers. We're gonna get you the meetings books and we can charge you six thousand a month or nine thousand a month or twelve thousand a month. And we have the same the CAC on that offer. So the the the CAC for the cold email offer was between $2,200 and like $2,700. That's what it's been for like two years. It's the same on the $6,000 a month cold calling. So I'm like, oh, what is the point of selling cold email at all? Let's just entirely move all of the ad spend over to cold calling. This is just so much better of a thing. And also just means it's so much less, so many less customer success reps, and it it's it's just so much easier, so many less clients to deal with in order to make so much more profit. And there's more expansion revenue too if they're if their sales team expands. That's exactly what we're seeing. We already have someone and they've got like they've got a team of like 80-something reps, and they're like, all right, we're gonna do a pilot of this for like two months with and we're we're gonna give you like five reps to work with, and then if it works well, we'll give you more. So I'm like, okay, now I I I understand how the LTV of this of this offer could be stupidly big. So I'm very bullish on this offer.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

That's nice. You ready for number four? I am so um this one is a medical device client, so they sell a medical device. They're doing four million a month. Uh I'm curious, I guess their acquisition.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

I wan I'm gonna I'm gonna try to get this right. So it is ads, right? So it's just what funnel? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Advertising No. It's uh it's just a call funnel. So a couple reasons, this is uh a good friend of mine as well, and um you know, just I won't I won't dox them so nobody can funnel hack them, but a couple reasons it works so well for them, I think. Is the first thing is, and this is something that works I've seen this work multiple times is obviously in the medical device space, the meta in terms of how you sell stuff is you have like field sales reps, they go into a doctor's office, etc. I mean, there's different ways to do it, of course, or like trade shows or whatever. Most people aren't that good with like digital advertising. And so they took like standard call funnel ads, you know, all the things we do in our industry that are like the meta of what happens, and then they just took it and applied it to a different industry. And so the way I think about it is you know, when you're differentiating yourself, you could do it by how you structure or position the offer, but another way you could differentiate yourself is just by doing a different type of acquisition or having a different distribution strategy, right? And you see this a lot with like celebrities, like um, there's other, for instance, like I think is it Chloe Kardashian? I'm not sure. One of the somebody who famous has like a popcorn brand. And I mean there's a ton of popcorn brands, right? But obviously, she has a different distribution strategy. So you know, another another example of when I actually did this is when we scaled like so we took equity and a bunch of clients, and we ended up just doubling everything down into one client. And this was a medical device company. When they came on, they were doing like 50 to 100 grand a month. In 14 months, we got into three million a month. And literally, like what worked so well in that offer was nobody in that industry period was doing like traditional call funnel sales team, that type of stuff. And so we were for a ten thousand dollar product when we first launched getting ten dollar MQLs. I'm not even kidding. And when I say nobody was doing it, I mean like six months previously, uh, because of a Supreme Court ruling, before that, it wasn't even allowed legally. So like there was a change in legislation that allowed to even advertise what we were advertising on Facebook. Yeah, and so when you can actually pivot and take like an existing type of business into a different acquisition channel, I mean, if you think about it, that's what really Hormozy did with private equity. Like, I mean, nobody really, I think, before him, was a big brand to generate private equity leads, right? So that's another example. Another thing they do really well is it's not necessarily they do really well, but it just works out for them. It had their product's like 70 grand, and so and you can finance it. So obviously, with that, the higher, like I said before, the higher the price point, the easier your businesses, generally, right? Especially, you know, in their case, they can finance it. Because if you think about it, like there's a big barrier, so to speak, in going from like six to ten sales reps to like the next level from that. Like it catches with a lot of clients, and it's it's pretty tough. You know, even for us, it's been sometimes tough to kind of break that barrier. Yeah, and there's ways you can do it, but an easy way around it is you don't need to do it because you can hit four million a month because your product costs literally so much.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Right? So you have much better unit economics because of that. And then the third reason it works so much, we've already talked about, is the barrier to entry because you can't just be some kid who's like, you know, just make a medical device 20 years old. You see the ad, you're like, dude, I really need to make money. And then you're like, I'm starting to medical device. It's just not gonna happen, right? And so like they're like vertically integrated, they bought like the manufacturer, etc. So they're very hard to compete with from that standpoint, and they're gonna have a huge exit because that's a business that you don't need to be a charismatic figure, right? You just need a good operation, and they're gonna have quite a good multiple.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

And if they own a patent on like a device or something, like, yeah, that's that's so great. All right. Anything else on that you want to move to number five? No, let's move to the next one. All right, so I assume you're aware of the whole like AI automation thing where people are like you could sell, you can make a hundred thousand dollars a month selling AI consulting to businesses and like just sell AI consulting to small businesses, or have you seen the people selling the biz ops on you could sell an AI chat bot to a med spa for a thousand dollars a month or or or or all that. All right, so there's a way to make it work, and there's a way that flat out just like absolutely zero percent probability ever works. So what I will say about it is that selling the Biz op unteaching people. No, that's true. That works to do to sell the chatbots is a really good business. But yeah, legitimately 0% of your customers are gonna get results. Nobody gets results doing that. Also, if you try to do outbound or sell to cold with just AI consulting, also doesn't work. Absolutely terrible. However, if you go on X or YouTube and you start showing any kind of AI automation you've built at all, there is a completely disgusting amount of traffic that you will get so easily and so many inbound leads of people saying, Can you do can you do something like that for me? Right. I had a client who he was he was trying to do cold email, he had never done content before ever, like really like full actual beginner, like didn't have any audience at all. And he was trying to sell like automations and whatnot. And I was like, dude, the problem with what you're trying to do is if you were to sell this to Outbound, one, it would need to be a specific build, but like you don't know what your specific build is yet. So what you should do, and what what the problem people are having is if you say, I can help you automate your business, that's anything. It means a million and a half things. What you need to do is show them examples of things you have done, and then it gets their head churning, and they're like, Oh, now could you do this actually? So I had him start just posting videos and threads on Twitter, and then he ended up partnering with another one of my clients who's trying to do the same thing, and they're like 200 or 300k a month now, literally just posting content about automations that they've built. And then this has been replicated with all the other people who are in my thing who are trying to do AI automations agencies. I'm like, stop trying to do outbound, stop trying to do it, just post stuff that you already build. Like if you are gonna do outbound or like go into groups or something of people who like are already business owners and offer to do free work. And the only exchange here is that you get to document what you built, and that's it. And then you get to post it, and I promise you will get a ton of people coming to you, and it is working so well.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

Well, I think that works as well too. And the way I would the way I would imagine it would work through ads is you just have to be very specific in terms of the problem you're solving and who you're solving it for, and then again in the ad show like examples. Yes. So I'm trying to think of like something that would be good off the top of my head, but maybe there's a really complex BS like compliance process that your business has because you're in healthcare, there's almost no taking or whatever, and nobody likes it, and the owners don't like it, or whatever. And you could basically like speak to that problem that you know they don't like and show what you built, and hey, do you want me to build this for you? Right, and if it doesn't decrease your compliance work by whatever, you know, you get a refund. So, yeah, I think that would be great. And it's funny about that BizOp is that um I posted this on X. It's like Chamath Palpatia or Palapatilla, however you pronounce his name, you know, he started just basically an AI agency, yep, but he did it for enterprise. And it's doing like over $100 million a year. Now, granted, and that's the thing about enterprise that I've learned is a lot of the legion for how to get those companies is just your network. Yes, right? And in his case, like his brand, I mean, dude, his brand is, you know, if TPBN sold for 300, 200 to 300 million to open AI, did you see that?

SPEAKER_03 54:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

Right? That's like the live streaming tech show. They sold for like it's somewhere between 100 to 300 for open AI.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

Right. So if they were able to do that, they have nowhere near the views as like all in, which are familiar with all in, right? Which is like Chamath's podcast. So I mean, he starts that business, it's like you know, their viewers probably, you know, they're they're super high-end. And obviously, he's gonna get some great customers, and also he has a great network. So, anyways, you ready for mine? Offer number five. Yep. So this one is not like a you know 10 million a month or something like that, but I do want to give one of my buddies, Eddie Malouf, a shout out. Bad marketing agency. And so I don't know the revenue, it's probably like two to four million a month, but I do want to point him out because he probably has one of the biggest agencies in the space. And so I think they do probably a call funnel, etc., for Legion. I'm not exactly sure, but I do want to point out a few things he does really well. So a lot of us focus on scaling vertically, and what he did really well is scaling horizontally through acquisitions, and so like I don't know if this is his exact story, but like to give you an example, I would imagine they started with probably like coaches in e-commerce and having more of like the boutique agency, but then they they acquired or built like an email agency, and then because they had the e-commerce, they acquired, I know they did acquire an Amazon agency, and then like they were boutique and working with higher-level customers, so we acquired another agency that's more of like a you know um a high volume factory for like more lower level people, and then so on and so forth. And so his idea was that you know it's pretty hard to scale at a million dollar a month agency. Like it's tough. Like, I mean, he's obviously obviously done it, but just with one offer, like it's pretty tough. But it's like not that bad to get to 400 to 600. Yes. So he's been able to stack them, but it's also cohesive in a way that a lot of these can go from one to like if you're an e-commerce business, you can do, let's say, TikTok shop, you could do email, you could do Facebook, you could do whatever. And if they churn off one product, they not necessarily churn off the other. So like I know another one of those things he does really well is like, you know, your church generally with agencies, their churn on Facebook ads is higher than um, let's say email. So if they get them on email, they might churn them on Facebook ads, keep them on email. Yep. You know what I'm saying? So those are some things I think he's done really well. He also does partnerships with like info brands and creator brands with RevShare. And I know he's ripped off of that. And then um the other thing I like that he does is he basically, with certain clients, buys in to like 10 to 20 percent of their business in exchange for the agency services, and then instead of getting paid in money, which he can still get paid in money actually, he also gets paid in equity, right? And then so he can use like his existing infrastructure to scale those businesses up. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

So it's interesting you're talking you're talking about horizontal scaling. I've also found us to have that problem where I can have a lot of offers that will range between like 100k or 300 or 400k a month, and I've just found it to be way easier to just launch a new product that ends up cross-selling into the other ones, and then those all of these individually just make up what your company is.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

And so here's like kind of the thing is like you hear the more better new framework for Pomosey. And so, really, what you're kind of like saying is okay, you know, scaling horizontally is like going from better to new. And it's tough to know when exactly it's kind of easier to know when you should go from more to better, back to more, back to better, because it's really just like do we need more volume or do we need more efficiency to increase our LTV to CAC and then we add more volume, right? But it's okay, so it's how do you know then when finally do something new? And I I I don't necessarily have a great answer to that, but like the bet vibes, but I I I think the best I can really come up with is if you feel like every single part of your business down the value chain is probably like 90% maxed out to where like you could get incremental improvements, but you're not necessarily gonna get step order changes in magnitude, and you don't have like your competitors, you don't even have like a competitor who's at your level. You're like 10 to 20x, maybe even higher, 30x your next competitor. If you're probably experiencing those things, it could be very possible you need to sort of like expand out into a different division, is kind of my thinking, which is kind of exactly what I'm doing in my company. Yeah, which is we're gonna we're gonna build another division that's a different industry, a little bit different deliverables, and then you know, ramp that up to five to ten, which is super fun. It's also way more fun. Like I just like doing new stuff, creating new offers. Like I'm working on it right now. It's funny because I I think I was telling you this earlier. You know, I probably should do like I'm doing like one podcast a week. I probably should do one podcast and one solo podcast or video a week or a Google Doc training or whatever. If I really wanted to go all in, that's what I would do. But, you know, instead of doing that, like I just want to focus on building this other division, and it's so more much more fun. Yeah. Like just the strategy of the offer and this and that, and I think the payoff is gonna be bigger. And the podcast is not doing bad. Yeah, yeah. So, anyways, if you're a business owner who has appointment setters or an outbound sales team, you're gonna want to hear what I have to say for a second. So, a multiple eight-figure business owner texted me the other day, and when he started using dollar.io for the first time, his pickup rates went from 9% to 20%. So imagine doubling your pickup rates and ultimately the throughput of what your outbound salespeople and setters are gonna get, how does that impact your business? The answer is a lot. So if you want to check out dollar.io for a phone sales outbound system, just click the link in the description or just go to dollar.io. Now back to the podcast. Anything on Eddie's agency or we move on to the next one?

SPEAKER_00 59:53

Uh no, let's move on. What you got? All right. Another one that's ripping for beginners and uh a commonality between all these is that um it's easy for them to sign their first clients and it's easy for them to fulfill, right? It it doesn't have all these barriers. Um AI UGC. So the problem, like you you had the million dollar a month person you're talking about earlier as a UGC agency. Yeah. Uh the problem with that is there's again a lot of logistical intensity associated with like sourcing creators for this, and so not AI UGC in in in terms of just humans, but it's like clear that it actually is like animated. Like it's you're not even trying to pass it off as if it's it's it's a human. And the reason I'm saying that is because it works, it'll it actually works to convert. So, like claymation, for instance, ads, where it's like a full like skit of like some kind of like claymation or somebody's showing like a supplement and it's like showing claymation of the digestive tract or something like that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those work for the client, so they convert on ads, they're easy to make, and they're easy to sell. And now going back to what we were talking about with AI automation, uh, the best way to get clients for it is if you just make one and you post it on Twitter. Yeah, big Twitter guy. Just a bunch of people are gonna come to you and they're gonna be like, I kind of want that. So and the reason I'm saying that is because I have a client who actively started selling that, and he has a wait list of two weeks right now, and the and he's just literally posting it. He's not running ads to it, he's just posting an example of one of the ones he's already making for clients. So it's not even an additional work for any marketing. He's already made it, let me just post it. And then he's just he has legitimately dozens of people and is collecting six thousand, eight thousand dollar payments in the DMs, like no sales call.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:45

Oh, that's wild. And it hits two trends too, because it hits the AI trend, and it hits also like the oh my god, I gotta make so many creatives, my head's about to explode. Another Andrama. Like everybody's like, oh my god, I gotta do so many creatives. Everybody just you know, you you go to a business mastermind and you say anything, you have any problem related with marketing, and they're like, More creative. We need to make more creatives. Yeah, that's the word. That that may be the answer, it may not be that. For a lot of people, it is, to be quite frank. But you know, it's just like that's like what everybody is getting hammered into right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, you ready for number six? Yep. So this is a one where this is one of the businesses. A lot of these businesses are businesses like, I'm like, damn, I wish I had. This is one where I'm like, I won't start this in my lifetime, but I'm like, if I could start over, like I could crush it with a business like this, is uh virtual family office or tax prep. And so I have clients who do 10 million plus with this. Uh I know people doing 30 million plus, and I mean some of them who do eight figures, just pure referrals, right? And so a couple reasons this works so well. Number one, it's the $20 bill for one dollar concept. Yep. Because like the firm I work with, for instance, and they're crushing it, and they're really good. And we were talking about deals earlier, you should maybe use them. Um, they essentially, you know, they'll help you with tax strategy, asset protection, all your insurance strategy, and even advise you in investing strategy, and even give you vetted deal flow that like their analysts uh go through and a bunch of other stuff, like estate strategy, like it's like holistic in terms of all the legal tax, etc. work that you kind of need for your business, and then they're fiduciaries, so they don't make like kickbacks on any of it. And I mean, in my opinion, you just get such an insane value for just a monthly payment that, in my opinion, is not that much. And so the thing is, is you get all of that, but even just the tax part, it's like, okay, I can't do my tax strategy by myself. And so for me, you know, for what their payment is, I'm gonna make that back in 20x a year each year, just through saving money on taxes. So it's an easy sale from that front because it's just a $20 bill for $1. It's just saved money that I'm gonna have to pay no matter what, right? The other thing is switching cost, like, especially as your financial situation gets more complex, right? You have investments, you have 900 fucking K1s, you got like this asset protection thing, you have this offshore trust, you have you know, gold and a uh freaking mountain in Switzerland, you know, yeah, you have all these insurance people, there's all these vendors of like all these people that were because they they handle all of that. Well, it's like how am I gonna leave? Like, where do I even start if I wanted to switch from somebody else? Like, I would literally have no idea I'm not leaving, but I would have no idea, you know. And so the other thing that it works so well, and this is something we already covered, is by the nature of calling out that problem, you automatically get a qualified person. Yeah, yeah. Right? Like, nobody's really fretting over tax strategy who's not looking at a big tax bill, and you can only look at a big tax bill if you made a lot of money. Yep. So just by the nature, if you're going from an advertising approach, which by the way, some of these people just could go off referrals, but like if you are gonna advertise by the nature of calling out the problem, it's an automatic qualification, which is huge, you know? Because office, you know, and just to hammer why that's such a big point for people who might not know, is Facebook's trying to always get you like the cheapest lead possible. I mean, that's how their algorithm is gonna optimize down. So naturally, you're always gonna get the brokest people of the market most of the time, because those are the cheapest, and that's how the pixel is optimizing down. And so, unless you do something with your messaging or there's certain pixel strategies and application strategies you can use to try to train your pixel or bidding strategies to go higher, but unless you somehow with any of those strategies set a floor to where, like, okay, Facebook can't go below this floor, you're gonna get the cheapest quality in any given market, right? Like, even for the setter offer, most of the people who come on, they're not looking for their ninth setter, they're looking for the first setter. Yep, yeah, you know, and so but obviously I don't get people who don't have a business, yeah. I don't get people who don't have like an offer and a price point in some clients. So, like that's built in, yeah, right? It's not like going to go down the biz op. But does that make sense? Yep. So, like, by the nature of obviously solving a Big tax issue for a client, you know, the worst you're gonna get is maybe somebody who's doing like you know, high six figures or seven figures a year, which maybe for them is still unqualified, but they can still push that person into something else. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

I got uh I got buddies who I who I use for like tax strategy and whatnot. Yeah, and their entire marketing they're at like 20 million a year right now. Three years ago, they're probably at like only a couple million a year, but their entire marketing strategy is hosting dinners. That's the whole thing. Yeah, it's a they take their clients.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:31

That's a network marketing, that's network marketing built into this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

Yeah, it's just invite anyone who you think is who you're friends with, just they can all come to dinner. They pay for the dinner and they would just hop city to city to city and do that. And now those guys are absolutely annihilating, and we are grandfathered in at a really good price with them because they charge like 10k, 15k a month. No, yeah. So I'm really happy.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

That's the thing, is like once you're with somebody who's good, you're not gonna be able to do it. It's hard to leave. You know, you just don't churn, especially after you're there for like a year or two. Then it's like you're not definitely not churning. Yep. So, okay, number seven for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

Reddit agency. Specifically because like this this is a huge thing where um for like coaches and whatnot, especially coaches who just have like have really like bad reps, you know what I mean? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like just they're they do not give their students good results. Um or just like any other company as well. Um who people just talk shit on Reddit. It's planting threads, and I'm sure this is against the Reddit TOS. Yeah, like I'm absolutely sure it is, but people buy the shit out of it just because there's a profuse amount of people who are selling a product with a lot of people complaining on Reddit, and then that plays into what ChatGPT is saying and all the AI models are saying. Oh yeah, basically, it's gonna tell you, like, is this person legit? And it'll be like, well, actually, you look at all these Reddit threads, and it's like, oh, if it says the word scam anywhere associated with it, like just in a comment somewhere. There's also people who will um um they'll try to get things removed so they'll like mass report it, or it's like just just planning stuff and like upvoting it for them and just just burying it. There's the that's one application of it, and the second is just for reputation. Yeah, just reputation, like like getting getting it shown in Chat GPT as like to recommend you, yeah. And I see that working really well. So I have I have one client um who runs cold email for this and it works really well. Um and he's just saying he's promising them um um like a specific amount of Reddit threads planted to say I'll get you a thousand mentions of your product on Reddit. So like he's taking it from the angle of like marketing, but then his inbound are the people removal. Or yeah, or the removals. Yeah. So that's very because I don't think outbound or maybe even ads too would work for the removals, but for for for like referrals, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting because 99% of the stuff on Reddit that has ever been about us is not even clients. I don't even think they're it might be a hundred, it might be a hundred percent. Yep. Because I mean, who goes to Reddit? I don't know. I think 99.99%, and you can just tell they're just not clients because they're not even talking about a client experience. Yeah, most of them are just angry that they saw an ad, or maybe they booked a sales call and then they didn't buy.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

Which is also like, for whatever reason, a lot of our trust pilot negative reviews are people who just booked a sales call and didn't buy. Yeah, and I'm like, what is it? And I reviewed the call too, and I'm like, yeah, this is like a normal call. Like, what was like the what was the what was the issue here?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

I feel like there's two takes of people on reputation management. It's either like just ignore them, like you're gonna get it, or there's like, no, I'm gonna call you out and like respond to every single thing, and like, or if it say it was on like Twitter or something, or someone like talks shit on Twitter, like, no, I'm gonna quote tweet this and show it to everyone, like explain to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

I usually ignore um, I mean, there's been some Redis stuff that we removed just because it was fake.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:05

Yeah, it's just not true.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:07

I mean, I I you know it's like if somebody leaves a bad review, okay, great. Leave a bad review, we're gonna have way more bad good reviews than bad reviews. But um, yeah, there was this one Reddit thread I remember that the top comment was it was like, does anybody, you know, has anybody worked with Cole Gordon or whatever? This is back when we had RCA, and he was like, somebody was like, Cole Gordon spews diarrhea from the mouth. That was the that was the top voted comment, and like clearly it was just like somebody who didn't like my YouTube ads. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? But yeah, there's a lot, I mean, it's just overall a negative place in general. Okay. You ready for number seven? This is an interesting one. This one I think is some I know it's past 10 million a month, and so it's somewhere between 10 million a month and 50 million a month. Is 10 to 15, to be clear, not 50. Is um committed coaches, and and they they're public about this, so they wouldn't mind me saying this. But what they do is all they are is a sales and high-ticket program company who partners with direct response companies who have a bunch of low-ticket buyers and no back end, and then they do 50-50 on the back end. So I give you an example, is like they might have like we have this industry where we do rec response marketing, but like I'm talking about the hardcore direct response industry where they're mostly in health, a lot of them are, and they're selling either like supplements or info products, or like, and you know, I think they have clients that sell like resistance bands or whatever, right? And it's like pretty aggressive marketing to be able to get it in. Like there's advertorials and all this stuff, and they'll literally make money uh without any high ticket at all. This is not like a lead gen for them, like they'll make like 20% profit margin, and it'll be you know, some of these companies are doing two, three, four hundred million a year, if not more, right? But they don't have like a back end, they don't want to run a sales team, whatever. So this company partners with a bunch of those people because I think this guy had an affiliate background, so he had a lot of connections with people who were like this, right? Because like this is kind of like the affiliate space, so to speak. So they partner together, they take 50-50, and he just has a sales floor of like a hundred people, they're all end-to-end self-leion, and so 100% commission, and they just get all these buyer leads coming in from these different companies. Yeah, and I don't know if he has the reps segmented by company or what have you, but they just call, go through a sales process, they sell like a three to five K coaching program, so they all kind of funnel into one coaching program and then they split it 50-50. And so then what this guy's done is like Matt Ryder helps him out, Eli helps him out, Eli Wilde, there's a couple other people, and I think like how he's done it, which is really genius, is he pays them overrides on anybody they recruit from their social medias, and then on top of that, he has them like in the group doing like group trainings and different stuff like that. So like he's kind of created this environment where like a lot of salespeople want to go and get coaching from like Eli or Matt or whatever, and then they're all coming from those networks and they're incentivized because they get the overrides, and so it's wild. I mean, they're obviously doing a lot of I mean, I I I I think I first found out about them when they were doing like a million to two million a month. Yeah, and then all you know, next thing I know, a year or two later, it's like ten million a month plus. Yeah, it's like a horizontal scale thing. I don't know if you've ever heard or seen anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:19

No, I've never I've never heard or it's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:23

All the sales, all of us sales trainer people, we we know about it. Yeah, because and honestly, I should probably be I mean, if I still had RCA, I could have murdered that thing. Yeah, I could have sent him thous a thousand times. Do you just hate Visop now? Uh well there's just no point in doing it because naturally, unless you have a really low-ticket uh if you in general, if you're doing it with a call funnel, it's just not as good as margin as B2B because you don't get as good LTB to CAC. And you don't just you don't get customers who have a lot of spending power past the initial purchase.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:55

So with a call funnel, the margins generally compared to B2B aren't that good. So it, you know, I'm not saying don't do it for some people, or it's a reason you shouldn't do your business or whatever. Like I you could still make like profit a couple hundred grand a month or maybe three, four hundred grand a month if you get to a million a month, right? So it could still work, but it's just tough from that standpoint, so it's kind of not worth it for me. The other issue is is like I, you know, I've made a lot of money like in the bank, right? Like, not like my net worth is I mean, I'm not telling like money in the bank. I just have no desire to do anything that could take that all back to zero, you know, and have like any sort of FTC risk whatsoever. Because the thing is, is if you do get a B2C offer big enough, even if you're like pretty compliant, if you get big enough, you're still a target. Yeah right. And we've seen that with a lot of people going down. There's some people who go down and you're kind of like, yeah, you kind of probably should have gone down. Then there's other people who I'm like, I don't know, like they were probably doing a pretty good operation. I mean, they were huge, yeah, but it is what it is. So, and then the other thing is the the real way to make those offers crank is if you have a good low-ticket front end, so you could liquidate a lot of the ad spin, and almost like your your front end is your back end, so that your back end could be super high gross margin. So, but the the issue with that is is to get the low ticket to work, you still got to make a lot of claims. Then you have a lot of low-ticket customers, and you can have FTC riskers for that. So for me, and then those businesses have no enterprise value. So for me, it's like, yeah, could I do one? Yeah, I could. Do I have any desire to? No. Is the risk too big? Yeah. Do I feel good about it? No. Like, are they customers I'm really like proud to work with or want to work with? No. Not saying like I, you know, don't want to. I, you know, I'm I'm all for beginners trying to do their thing or whatever. It's just not my thing, you know. Yeah. I'm just kind of past that point where I want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:42

It's also really, really difficult to get them results. Because it's almost always their own fault. Like, it really did just be a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

Yeah, I mean, it's just such a big leap, right? Like, if you think about it, if let's say, I mean, we'll use my business. If you have a successful business, and I'll I'll give you a really good example. If you have four sales reps, and you're like, hey, I'm coming on to get six sales reps, all I gotta do is really just give you good people. I mean, you're probably running a decent operation at that point. There's probably a lot of consulting things we can still help you with and processes and systems and yada yada. But generally, like all I really gotta do is give you two reps, and if the reps are good, you're probably gonna succeed and you're probably gonna be happy, right? It's like, and and that'll result. I mean, if I give them two reps, that could be an extra 2.4 million or however much a year for them for not even paying us that much money to recruit the reps, right? So it's like the the step to success is like this. It's like very small. Whereas even if, let's say, contrast that with maybe somebody has an offer where you're helping somebody who has never had a client get their first client, that's actually such a big leap, right? Because they have a bunch of mindset issues. They don't have really honed-in expertise yet, their offer is not even good, they have no idea how to generate leads. Then if they generate leads, they have no idea how to sell. And then, you know, you gotta teach them how to sell, and then they have no idea how to fulfill. So there's like a lot of like, you see, it's just such a big leap. Yep. And so it's not necessarily that, you know, I don't I don't even want to say like, oh, it's all their fault. I mean, yeah, a lot of times they get in their own way, sure. But even a promise of we'll get you your first client, let's say. Yep, which is such a small probability of it, it's it's asking somebody to make such a big leap. Yeah, I mean, dude, it took me, I think, like 18 months when I started when I was like 23 to get my first client. Yep. Right? That's not because I and I took programs and stuff, it's not any of their fault. It's just like, dude, I had to overcome a lot of things, and I was in my own way.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:35

You just have your own life cycle that you have to elapse through, and a lot of times the of the of the people who do start at zero and get really good results, they've been watching stuff about making money online for probably a year or two years, and it just kind of got through that that thing in their head.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:50

So, what's this is your last one, number eight. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:54

Okay. My next one is in-person content agencies. So, yes, there's content agencies where it's like clipping.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:03

Yeah, I'll I'll script some YouTube videos for you, and then like you, client, like you sit and film it. But it's just a it's just a whole project to get them to do that. Right. And uh especially if you're selling to older people, like, for instance, like a home service business, you know what I mean? Like we were mentioning uh them earlier, like they don't know anything about cameras or like they don't like they they they get on the camera, they they they don't know how to talk correctly.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:25

Yeah, they start they start the video and then it's like hey, you know, it's like there's a like second delay that just shows you have no idea what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:33

Even even if you were selling it to marketers, so like the the problem with selling marketing services to people like coaches, agencies, is they're all marketing inclined people in the first place. If you try to sell them a content offer, it's pretty difficult to do that because they're probably better at content than you. So they're like, why am I gonna pay you to do that? The trick here is which is kind of a theme with all of mine that I've mentioned is that it's high logistical intensity. It's I am physically going to you and I am physically putting cameras in front of you, and like then I'm taking it home and then I'm editing it, editing it, and posting it for you. Right. You literally don't do anything at all. Yeah, um, and I feel like that concept of the transferring of logistical intensity from the client to you is what makes it a good beginner for a beginner to be able to do it. It's a it's you just do a lot of stuff for them, and that's the only reason why they would pay you at all. And it trying to sell to marketing people, it's like I pay someone to do that. He'll come and he'll film me. I do this for ads, not for content, but he'll come and he'll film me, and it's like I'm totally down to pay this guy $7,500 a month to come and bring all the cameras and do all the editing for like a hundred something creatives a month. Like, that's totally fine with me because it's so much less stuff I need to do. Now, the constraint of that business is that they physically need to be near you and you need to use your actual time to go do it. But I still have clients who run this and then they just hire an actual crew over time, and then now you're now becoming like a real business with like real employees that go out, but the margins are really high, and you can charge a like pretty substantial amount of money with it, which is another thing I'll touch on real quick. You could take, for instance, a standard content agency of like, I'm gonna script you YouTube videos and edit them, and you might a beginner, like maybe someone who someone who doesn't really have much authority, they'll maybe be able to sell that for like three grand a month, and that's like that's like you're pretty good at sales. You could be zero authority whatsoever, really have like no case studies at all. And if you say you're physically going to go there to do it, it is easier to get that deal for five, six, seven thousand dollars than it is to get the three thousand dollar deal when you don't physically go there. No, a hundred percent. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:54

So so for beginners, really good one to just physically go and do it, and they'll they'll definitely this transitions in to my last one, offer offer number eight, because it's in the it's like almost the ascension of what you just said, which I know you know who he is, Daniel Isles. Yep. And so, yeah, I connected with him, he's a great guy, and um, so I think he's doing somewhere between three and five million a month, call funnel, basic, you know, the standard operating procedure. But again, his big shift, and he does basically I should have said this, but he essentially does uh done for you content for companies. But his big shift is is that he started similar to what I was saying earlier, in like going after coaches and course creators and whatever. That's why he named his company viral coach. And then what he realized is like, okay, if I can work with like, let's say, a nationwide company who has a bunch of financial advisors or something like that, a more traditional business who has like no idea what's going on, but they have money and they know they need to get on content, but they have no idea how. He's like, I could charge way more and they stay way longer.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:56

And because it's such a broader audience on ads, it works way better. And so, from what he's told me, that was the biggest shift that allowed him to go from I don't know the exact numbers, but let's call it like maybe a million a month below, to obviously like, you know, he just started once he made that shift is when he started like bam, just like adding massive revenue each month. And a big reason why is, and this is kind of the second thing, is the price point in the economics. So with that audience, he went from like a coach can barely afford like fucking 10k to I think his thing is like 36k or more. He might probably have different levels of packages, and the LTV is way higher. So again, like if you think about it, would you rather have like training a team of six reps to sell well is gonna be hard rather the price point is at 36k or 10k. So would you rather do it at 36k or 10k? Well, you'd rather do it at 36, and you're gonna make what three and a half three and a half, three point six times more revenue on the front end, and because they're richer, probably more LTV on the back end. So you have better unit economics and basically like economies of scale. Like you have a better cost curve, so to speak, relative to your complexity and what you're spending on ads.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:04

And so, yeah, I mean it's kind of exactly what I was saying with the with the cold email to uh the cold calling.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:10

It's it it's it's it it's it's really just profusely easier when you're able to charge significantly more. And it's it it's kind of like what I was just saying with it with the content as well. Um it's difficult to sell a marketing-esque offer to coaches who are marketing inclined to people buying the city.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:26

Yeah, because that's what they want to do. Whereas like if you're a financial advisor or like an insurance team or something, you're like, okay, I wanna, I know I need to do this, I need to do it with the least effort possible. Yeah, and so you're just willing to throw money at it, opposed to like, I mean, some coaches are like, I mean, I know I've taken thousands of sales calls with coaches because that's even when I was a full-time sales up for selling for other companies, we sold to coaches. And like one of their dreams is, oh, I really want to like make this higher, get my business to this point, because all I want to do is speaking and content and write books.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:56

And a traditional business owner ain't like that. They're like, Yeah, all I want to do is like sell my business and make a bunch of money.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:02

And just not do that. So again, it's because it's shifting to like that different market who frankly knows they need to do it, but doesn't want anything to do with it, it's stickier and they pay more.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:12

Yeah. I think what's what's interesting about everything we've just spoken about, it's it's uh a lot a lot of them were like a vice around selling to cold traffic.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:21

And I think a lot of people um they discount content and building an audience because they think if you don't have an offer that could be sold to cold traffic, it's not a valid business. And uh observing Hermosy kind of flipped me to this, where it's like Hermosy doesn't really have an offer that he sells to cold traffic.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:38

Well, he does, but it's really just selling the cold traffic through his audience, right? Like again, it's what I explained earlier about one of my clients. Most, I mean, he gets crazy costs and responses and cack and whatever through his advertising. But realistically, pretty much all everybody who's probably responding to his ad has watched his content.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:58

So it's not really a cold traffic, it's not really a first impression. But I will say this uh I agree with you, like, yeah, I mean, you can you can destroy it through content, etc. But an offer that works well on cold traffic generally would work better on warm traffic. Yes. Right? So if you can make it work, I mean you can almost view it like this. If it works on cold email, it'll probably work really well with ads. If it works well with cold email and ads, it'll probably work really well with brand. The thing that I think you pointed out to be that I would say is an exception is like there is certain things that I think people on YouTube or social want. Like you were saying, like, okay, they maybe don't want as much done for you service. They're a little bit more open to course material because like they're already like kind of going through material, yeah, so to speak, it's on YouTube. And because there's more of a personal relationship there, you know. If I run an ad, I'm like, Do you want a one-on-one coach with me? Yeah, people are like, screw this guy. But if I'm like, I guarantee right now, if I ran a mid-roll and it was like, Do you want to do one-on-one coaching with me? Which I don't offer, uh, I'd probably get a bunch of applications, you know, or like a live in-person event. So I do think there is probably some differences because it's a different fundamental dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:08

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just going back to what Hermoses offers, so he does workshops. I started doing virtual workshops, so challenges. Yeah. Dude, these things crush, just absolutely annihilate for us. I so we started it, uh, we started doing it maybe like a year ago. I think we've done six of them so far. It is by far the most profitable channel we've ever.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:34

And do you fill it initially with ads?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:36

About half.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:38

And then some of it's from your list? Yeah, because we'll do so many months. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:42

And but dude, was it like 500 tickets to it? So it's paid. It's not, it's not a free sign up. You have to pay money up front to come to it. Uh, we we're doing four-day ones. We'll get about 10% of people who buy a ticket to upsell. So, like 500 people buy a ticket, we're getting 50 upsells to like a like a $12,000 offer. Like 10, 10 to 12,000, kind of kind of hanging around there. Those are the numbers we've seen pretty much across the board over the last like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:08

And what's the promise of the challenge?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:10

Um, so the one we do right now is called the AI Business Challenge, and um, it's kind of it's it's kind of using the same tagline as like the the AI assisted agency program that we sell. It's we're gonna show you what offers to sell, who to sell them to, how to get clients, and then how to fulfill for those clients.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:25

So it's it's it's more of like a beginner who wants to get started type of thing. Okay, great. Yeah, I'm wondering if there's like a challenge or live webinar system that would work for B2B.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:33

I did one. Um I tried it. It was I called it the Scaling with Ads workshop. And the only angle I was running on the ads, I was it was kind of just like a test to see like, does this work at all? Uh-huh. The angle was just saying uh it's just saying, oh, we spent $3 million on ads made back $13.6 uh million dollars. And if you want to learn how to do the same thing for your agency, buy this workshop. Probably about 40% of the people who bought that were from cold, and then looking back at the high-row stats, there was a pretty good conversion rate of the people who bought as a first source from cold on that who bought the upsell. And I think the ROAS on it was like ended up being like 4x or something like that. So I was like, that kind of that kind of worked pretty well. But what's interesting about that was I found uh the challenge tickets were $67 and the cost per purchase on cold, when I first started, like there was probably some like warm traffic mixed in there. It was like $300, but as I started to spend more, it was like $800 a purchase. I'm like, that's pretty damn high. But I had an intake form on the back, and on the intake form, I was finding that so I was asking their business model um how much they currently spend on ads and what their current revenue is. All of them like 80-90% of the people coming through, all were making like above 30k a month, and not like barely spending anything on ads. So I'm like, oh, this is this is like so perfect. Like that's exactly who because I'm helping them launch ads. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like, these are really, really qualified people, so I'm kind of completely okay with spending $800 to get them to buy, but then you go over the AI business challenge for beginners, and the cost per purchase over there is like 200 to 250 on cold. So it's that's you should try challenges. And Eddie Malouf was actually one of the one of the guys who told us to do that originally.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:30

I should talk with him. Okay. Dude, they're they're so good. Cool. I think that's the podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, you're also probably gonna like this podcast I also did recently that you can check out by clicking the screen right here.