Cole Gordon Podcast
Cole Gordon Podcast
Business Lessons From a Combined $231,000,000+ (w/ Ryan Clogg)
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This is the first time I feel like I've had a very clear executable plan of how to get past a hundred a year.
SPEAKER_01I was like, I'm gonna pay email. So I paid him like 18 grand, sat down, had my hour with email, never met him before, never talked to him. And it all basically just came down to like it and you can get a couple thousand followers on both and then basically just make a couple million bucks doing like consulting deals.
SPEAKER_04If we could just continue to do what we're doing now progressively, just by spending a little bit more on ads and hiring more salespeople, we should double the company.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So just the B2B, five million a month.
SPEAKER_01We were low ticket to start. That's how we got to a million.
SPEAKER_04The jump from one to ten was doing and then from ten to thirty was changing it from In this podcast, me and Ryan talk about lessons that we've learned doing over $200 million in collective revenues. So we talk about what's working right now in the industry, some of the biggest business models that we've seen, areas we've both stopped and essentially have made tons of mistakes in our businesses and so much more. So we'll get to the podcast. So first, for the people who don't know you, what's just a couple quick highlight rails? Who are you, the company, what you do, revenue, etc.?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we have uh info coaching business in the women's fitness space that's done over 100 million cash collected, uh, a lot of paid advertising, high-ticket call funnels, testing now into some of the low-ticket stuff. And then me on a personal side, about a year ago, decided to run up YouTube and do four months every single day, uh, kind of build an audience, talent, opportunities, network, and do all that.
SPEAKER_04So you you recently crossed over a hundred million total sales. You said 103. Yeah, probably. Right. So what what do you think is the biggest breakthroughs along the way that you feel like kind of helped elevate you guys through the different stages and eventually over there? And what's what's your monthly right now?
SPEAKER_01Right now, bad. Like we did two, like low two this last one. Okay. Because it's end of Jan. But last year we did 34. Yeah. So with a couple fives, a lot of threes, and some reading. Yeah, yeah. I get it. But what's what's some of the biggest things that helped you along the way? Um, I was thinking about it on the way here about how we can like talk about this. And I feel like I say a lot of the same thing, so hopefully people don't hate the echo. But we were low ticket to start, no idea what we were doing. That's how we like got into it. Yeah, and it was like a hundred ish. Well, like that's how we got to a million. The jump from one to ten was doing a call funnel, but we were selling info. Right. So it was a lifetime access. It started at 500 bucks, went to a thousand, went to 1500. Yeah, and then from ten to thirty was changing it from info to coaching. Right. So it was one to one instead. Like those were like the big like if you had to look at the charts, that's what the change was.
SPEAKER_04That's 30 per year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right?
SPEAKER_01Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah. So it was literally, it was like one, nine, ten, thirty point five or whatever, thirty-four this last year. So like it's all it's gone up every time. What do you think? But the stair steps was the offer.
SPEAKER_04What do you think is the biggest difference? Because like it's really interesting with health offers. It's like a lot of people can't break, let's say, 600 a month. And then there's a handful of people, and there's like several, who pretty much, I mean, look, like there's differences in the offer, but it's like pretty much the same offer, but they're ripping like two a month, three a month, four a month, five a month. I mean, I have a client doing I don't know the exact number, but I know at one point it was eight to ten a month. Yeah. Right? So, like, what do you think's the difference between those, like the few people who are doing massive numbers, and then like I would say most of like people in my mastermind who have an offer like yours are probably like four to six hundred, three to six hundred issues.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's kind of like the I always hear people say, like, oh, like call funnels cap at like three million a month, or this happens at like a million a month, and or six hundred in that example, and I really don't think that it's that. Like, I don't think that people should even look at it as it's at a dollar value because it's it's really volume. So like if someone has a 30k thing or someone has a 5k thing, or like we had a competition with these guys that have a 25k offer and a 7k offer. So we like and like it's it's different. Um yeah, so it's it's very different in terms of that. Um, so that's first is like I don't think it's the dollars. The difference in health market, I know three by name of like that's kind of in our world that's in health, and I'm sure there's a ton of ones that we don't know, yeah, but that are in our world that are doing over ten right now. Right. And um who are they? Can you say who they are? Uh probably not from so I can I can break down their whole business models.
SPEAKER_04Um, well I know I know v Shred, obviously. And then within health, yeah, yeah. Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say the next one, and then I'm trying to think of somebody else. But are you saying over 10 doing like more like high-ticket stuff? Or are you saying some of those people doing over 10 are kind of like an e-commerce high-ticket blend?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so and that's where I'm going with it. Is like at essentially at like uh an acquisition source at a certain point of a certain volume, like it just doesn't make sense to not be sweeping up or getting economy differences that you can get from something that's direct-to-cart or having direct-to-cart subscription on back. Like it just at that size starts to make sense to have either multiple products for LTV side or multiple acquisition types to like offset and like liquidate. Yeah, so uh one, two, and three all use some version of a direct-to-cart right as like an ascension model. Yeah, um, and whether that's like a test kit thing, whether that's an info product, whether that's whatever, and then they are massive direct response towards those things. They get the liquidation, they get the buyers instead of leads, and then they go through that. So it's like I would, I mean, that's that's our direction completely, because it's like it's just so clear to us.
SPEAKER_00It's very clear.
SPEAKER_01It's I would volatility of just raw ramming lead funnels. And when I say that I always call them lead funnels, but like opt-ins, VSL, free. Anything that's lead gen. Anything that's lead gen where there's not direct liquidation and people don't become a customer is like a lead funnel in my mind. And like they're needed, and you need new lead flow to come in. It's sometimes cheaper, but sometimes not cheaper, even when you do liquidation. Like we've had days or you know, let's say we run a low ticket, like you can have a hundred dollar CPA with a $90 AOV and it costs you $10 burned to get a customer, and you're getting $10 leads over here on a lead funnel, and those are not the same people. No, not the same people. Those are not the same people.
SPEAKER_04I would amend what you're saying as something else, though. I would say the only other over a hundred million health type of thing you could do is brand. So I'll give you an example. Like if he wouldn't do this, but if Andrew Huberman launched a health offer, for sure, like he would probably be ripping not even trying five million a month. Yeah, and that's kind of what it really was perceived.
SPEAKER_01In our world is kind of what I meant by because like people who aren't famous. Yeah. People who are not, and people like there's a bunch of these companies that we were talking about the AI stuff a little bit, but like that it's found where I'm like, oh, that's interesting, never heard of them. That it is info, it is in that world, it's direct response, uh, and I've never heard of them, they're not in our groups or things or anything. Um, but the other one that's in the that grouping of health um has a different traffic source, which is very interesting. So instead of having different acquisition and how they do their tiers or whatever, they basically do an affiliate slash like partnership model. So they partner with crush, right? And it's like the huge volume play. But it it can be used in a lot of I mean, I believe that it could be used in a lot of ways. And of course, it's on the back of all these guys who do direct response as a low tickets though.
SPEAKER_04And that's the one thing that's very interesting. So I'll tell you a story is I went to this mastermind in 2020, literally the month before COVID. Like they almost canceled it because of COVID, but COVID hadn't really nobody really knew if it was gonna like break massively to the US. And at the time I was doing $150,000 a month with me and a part-time coach. So I'm just like solo guy trying to kind of figure out what at the time I didn't really think the B2B would scale. I thought I was gonna have to do RCA. Yeah. And I was even thinking about doing like an RCA low ticket to start, which would have been stupid, but that's what I was thinking. And so I went to kind of like learn that, but I also went because my buddy invited me and I was like, uh, it seems like a lot of high-level people there. V Shred was there. And dude, the whole event, like their main thing, which was crazy for me coming from like high-ticket sales, was they were like, Yeah, our big like, I'm talking companies doing over a hundred million a year, would get up and be like, Yeah, our big breakthrough is we realized we had to keep rotating offers so many times because our LTV wasn't high enough. So we've been adding like high ticket. And that was like the breakthrough. Yeah. And I'm like, yo, that's like common sense. Yeah, that's crazy. But that's just there's so much more in the DR world, so much more. And they were adding that for the first time. So there's a huge trend of those companies who like there's this one, um there was these guys from uh I think it's called Natural Health Sherpa. They gave this uh this talk about how to get off the offer crazy train because they had to keep recycling offers to get their DR numbers to work, and they're like, Yeah, we added coaching, we're selling 3K at the back end, now our LTV is like 3x, and now an offer rides for like two years opposed to six months. And I just thought that was really interesting. So there's a huge need of those companies um to kind of merge with high ticket. Yeah, there's a there's a merge coming there, and they're doing it. There's another merge between media and also high ticket because that's the best way to monetize media, yeah, right? Like if you're like super famous on social media, unless like you're to the Logan Paul's point where you're just gonna do prime or something like that.
SPEAKER_01Those guys are that as he's edge case, but like even a lot of them is the servicing. Uh they don't want to be part of it, they don't want to be the guru, they don't want to be. And like I yesterday we talked about this at dinner. Um, there was two different guys who are like super they're running as growth partners, growth opera, whatever, for very, very well-known famous, and they're like, oh, they refuse to do content, like to do um ads, like straight facing. I know you're just gonna do it. Like it has whatever. They refuse to do this, they do like they don't want to be on the back, like it's just like not that interesting, whether that's because the the dollars aren't that interesting, or like the clout and like vibe and I get it. I mean, I don't I don't sell anything. I don't like I don't know. Uh it's it but to go back, the the health one is an example, someone who's doing that with the partnership like affiliate model. I uh when I started doing internet stuff was affiliate lead gen world, all of that, and I have like a lot of friends, but that's still their business model.
SPEAKER_04Probably the best. I would say those guys are probably the best media buyer, copywriter, market. They literally are. Then there's e-comm, which most of them just graduate into e-comm. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We're actually like they want to open it.
SPEAKER_04We're actually like our industry, whatever you want to call it, people who do high-ticket sale coaching things. We're like kind of the worst, I would say. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, but we're the best monetization. Because we have the most room for error through that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I don't know why it's taken me so long. Like, we we tried it a couple years ago and did like a month long. I got to like four in the morning, I built an entire low ticket, and in like a morning was like just run it. And it was on uh An Sultanic's AC framework at that time, because this was like two, probably three years ago, two years ago. Um we ran it, and they were like, Oh, the economics of it sucked. No one even looked at the ads, like it was just like a team dynamic, a buy-in, a whole thing where it was just like, oh, just run it in this little side thing. Yeah, barely any pixel stuff. And then we looked and it was getting like multiple hundred dollar purchases for like a $27 thing or whatever. It would just like turn it off. And we just went back and it was like lead funnels. And we've just been in this game of like, how do we you know spend $30,000 a day, $50,000 a day, $20,000 a day, like all over the board, and then you know, manage these fluctuations and manage the huge fluctuation of the media buying paired with the huge fluctuation of a sales team, and that's it. And it's like when they're both good, you're printing cash. Yeah, when one is bad, you're like breaking even, only making money on the back. And when both are bad, you're literally burning the back money is like has been our rampant, and it's like it's terrible. So, like we were talking revenue maxing versus profit maxing. We've had like we're good, but like by no means are we like you good, and now the economics of how we're starting to shift it, it's like clear as day that it just needs a little bit more volume to get over like the the essentially like overhead burden and like in a cash flow sense, prior sales, all of that. Like, we just keep all that sitting there. So on cash flow, you're like, oh, this isn't whatever. But when you look at like the unit economics now, Josh Gavin was just talking about load tickets uh at Nick Fisher's event, and I was like, I wish I would have shared the numbers, but we had a day four or five days ago where we spent like 30 grand, call it raw CPA on days like 3200 bucks or three thousand something, let's call it. Uh, you go down, we have all like all these columns, and then you go to the net world, and it's like fourteen hundred bucks.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because it liquidated so much from uh like we're starting to like teeter in that direction, and I'm like, how fast can we do this? Because I wanna I wanna just have leads going to the highest, highest value, highest ones, like the the one to three percent that are ready to buy, basically going through application, getting on a phone call ready, and or organic. There's so many levels.
SPEAKER_04Is your low ticket, would you say it's validated right now? Or okay, so it is. Yes. So are you but you're not you're kind of so correct me if I'm wrong. It seems like because I talked to you a couple months ago. And it was not, and you're like, we're trying to figure out how to do it. I think like we might have cracked it, but I don't know. We're like two days into this test. So now you feel like you've cracked it, finally. And it's a matter of you have a lot of spend. So it's just shifting the spend and shifting the spending. Letting that eat the spend of the other thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and the constraints of low ticket are when you increase spend, does CPA rise with it? Because that's bad. And that's usually comes back to media buying, offer, and or right now what we're in a big belief of is our creative engine. We don't we don't need to be able to do that. So that's why like you see all my like my stuff right now is like I'm hiring a paid creative strategist. Hiring, like, we need a person that owns all the editors like and just has the here's what the recipe that's working right now. I need 20 from this, 20 from this, and we have hundreds new a week is like that's the next target for that. Um, so that's like constraint one. Constraint two then is we go direct to call from that. So then you need the mass essentially setter army, right? Because if you're selling 300 a day and you're getting 60% call 50 for easy math, you're getting 150 setter bookings. Are they fit? And I message this, I'm like, are they 15? Are they back-to-back 15s? Are they 30 minutes? And we're doing inbound book uh zooms, so they're booking in inbound zoom calls, and then the you know, what's the show rate on there? What are the levers you can pull, what's the throughput of that to closers? Let's say blended numbers, 25%, right? Like that makes it to a closer call. So you're getting like a healthy amount of closer bookings that then eat that that you no longer need to run as anywhere near as much lead campaigns, VSL, opt-in stuff. Uh, and the economics are like 10 times better, the closer environments better, or should be, but then all of a sudden you have this training arc because then you ramped a bunch of people and they're just passing everyone through and the setter or the closers get pissed, like there's there's that whole world. Um so it's like constraint, constraint, constraint, but you see the economics at it at like a small slash medium scale, and you're like, oh right, oh, this is why.
SPEAKER_04Let me give you something that that I learned with setters this year. And by the way, if you like this content and you want to come to our next event where I'm gathering all entrepreneurs, people like Ryan, and we're talking about what's working in the industry, what's not working in the industry, and the lessons that we've learned, scaling to over a hundred million in total revenue. We have an event coming up in our eight-figure border mastermind. If you want to know more information about that, you can click the link in the description and it'll tell you all about it. Let me give you something that that I learned with setters this year, and it's kind of embarrassing because I should know this. But what happened with us is two things. Number one, I I like just because I have such an overview of the industry, like I have kind of benchmarks of based on your funnel, how many leads you need per month per setter. So I was kind of using those benchmarks to inform me in my business how many setters that I needed. And the thing is, I think it's just because we've been around for so long now, and we have so many leads in the pipeline that are just old leads. I was at the event that you were at, and Tom spoke, and he was like, Yeah, we added a a team, a setter team, just to call our old leads, and we added a million a month. And I was like, Fucking hell. Like, and we've actually tried that, but what happens is is we never really took it that seriously. And then when we had setter churn on our main team, we just moved the guys up because all the all of them wanted to be on that team anyways. But I was like, I so during the talk I just went over, I was like, to my uh one of my sales directors, I was like, We're 100% gonna go fucking full board with this. So then we doubled the setter team in October and kind of like in November was like training. So December was the first month where we kind of had the full team. So that was the first thing we did. So we doubled the team, and then number two, we basically I was like, man, and this is a huge breakthrough is that our setters, I'm just gonna throw out random numbers because I don't know the exact numbers, but let's just call it they were making six to seven grand a month. Okay. I was like, you know what, let's just like try to get them all to ten grand a month. And the thing is, that doesn't seem like that much money. Like that's an extra 24 grand a month. Like that's nothing when you're spending what we're spending on. But that's a 30%-ish or more. I think it's actually a 40% pay raise. Yeah, yeah. And so in the recruiting marketplace, that gets you an entirely different caliber of talent. Yeah. And then what we did is basically just marketed to closers who wanted to close for us and just said, hey, you gotta do setting for six months.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, set to close, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then they're like, okay, I'll do it as long as I can move up. But what that does, even though you have the churn in six months, it takes the ramp time from like, let's say 30 to 45 days as a setter to a week, or sometimes like a day. Like they're closers. Yeah. And if you've been a closer, setting is pretty easy. So between the increased caliber of just having better people, because if you think about it, if you're getting a random outbound call from somebody and they're like really good, like a closer, good, smart, like they can on an outbound call can make you think differently about your problem or whatever, dude. It not only affects show rate, but it also massively increases close rate. Oh, I'm sure. Because they had such a good impression on that first call that they kind of like the prospect's sort of thinking and like in their mind visualizing, maybe working with you before they get on that second call. Where even if a setter has a good show rate but they're not that good, you don't see the close rate pick up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So like our set to close went higher, our show rate was like 88%, 90%. Uh-huh. And then, dude, because we had so many more setters, we were able to, even though maybe the extra setters and the extra pay cost us, let's say, 30 extra grand a month, we were able to cut our spend from over 500k to like 260. And still keep the calendar.
SPEAKER_01Because of the efficiency, because you're squeezing more efficiently.
SPEAKER_04And so, like profit-wise, when it falls to the bottom line, I don't know the exact percentage, but I want to say 150 or something. It's fucking insane. So as you're building out the setter team, maybe consider just letting it be a track to being a closer. So that's the keeping them there six months, and just getting really good people. Get people who like are impressive, not like runty setters.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so my math isn't working like that currently. It's this is like one of we churned three sales leaders in 2025. Like the full person who's in charge of the department. Um, first one was the one that was with us from one to three million. Right. Good dude, all good. Um, second one, really good skill, but like was not a culture match. That's a huge thing for us right now, is like the actual culture match. We have, you know, it's 90 plus percent of the team is female, the entire target demo is 40, 60 plus. Like uh generally speaking, a male doesn't usually be. Even that demo generally is not fantastic. Uh right, it's like it's it's kind of this weird zone, and the har it's much harder on the leader or like to have a proper leader. Um, and it's not even gender and it's not age, it's like it's the ability to like the maturity, the empathetic, right? All that. Um, but the third one was good, but then got poached by Big Dog, and respectfully so, because you know, uh, I'm not him, the opportunity is not there, and the market and who he gets to work with is not who he gets to work with, yes. Like it just makes sense. So I'm like, run it, please. Like that is good opportunity. So uh we're running it essentially like in-house right now with uh the most culturally aligned human we have on our team who has like gone through coaching and then built our entire coaching division and then now pass that off to another coach. Like, so she's running it, and like the team is shifting. It's like the beliefs are up to cultures, but like the sales skills isn't necessarily. Um, we brought uh a setter up to be the inbound setter manager. So we have it broken out as we call them imps, um, ad cons and uh outbound, or like self. We call them self. And they're in separate teams fully. So we have like full imp setters, we have full ad confirm, which is like technically going down now because there's more that are only going through imp. They set their own calls, right, with a closer. So you don't you don't have as many like marketing direct bookings through app to uh closer call direct. Yeah, so that goes down, and we have zero outbound, and we've basically had zero outbound forever. We had no setters until we were at like 80 something million, 90 million, like zero.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01So I talked to someone yesterday, same thing you're saying, is like, oh, like you're literally leaving potentially like millions a month on the table.
SPEAKER_04It massive well, it massively reduces your CPA and your pro and it increases your profitability, not necessarily because of the extra appointment generation, but that does help, but also because the appoint those appointments should be if the setters are good. That's what happens is they skimp.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But if you get really good people, though sometimes those leads will close at 40-50%. And it's much easier to do uh best leads into the best closers if you just tell your setters, hey man, hey, just put your best people with the best people.
SPEAKER_01Like it's super easy to do it that way. I would I am actively hunting, so anyone who's watching this or you or like I need someone who fits that bill for the outbound direct like outbound setter world, and they can build an army and like budget's there, and like you like I want I'm huge about just like you can build it, I will meet with you, lead, direct, point this thing, like budget allocation, but like you can build your whole own thing within our ecosystem is like kind of been the model, and I need that because I have nobody who can do that right now. Um, but I believe that that would be a big lift, and like you said, it's like just between touch points, the squeeze, and the quality. Like, I it it's pretty impossible for it not to work, uh especially at a low scale, but like who knows? We've never done outbound dial, we don't have an outbound dialing software even. Like, we don't do any of that because we haven't needed it.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_01So, like, I'm I'm very uh I'm very excited about that. But the the the sales piece has always been a big struggle for us, and we're only a sale we don't we forever didn't sell anything direct to code.
SPEAKER_04Is you have so many people that Right. So it's tough to number one like even if you bring in somebody really good, they don't they're not gonna get enough time with everybody. Right? Because there's so many people.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so that's a tough thing. You may want to consider if you have that one person who's really good with culture, if she's also good with like the systems and kind of the structure and ever, just like bringing in, even like fractionally or not fractionally, just some like trainers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Just to like budget some extra call reviews and training with the within the closing side. Yeah, or or within whatever teams. Um because that's what really what like one director on a huge team can handle the infrastructure the system's okay hands.
SPEAKER_01It's like 15, it's like 15, 16 closers right now. Like we scaled down. Well, it's not bad.
SPEAKER_00Well, one manager could do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So what do you use for AI right now in regards to like I guess in in anything, but like within the sales bucket. So like we are about to roll one that's like a one of those mock dialers, uh, as well as like call transcripts, like or reviewing more so like the management AI. We have zero of that right now. Like, we use HubSpot, we just got sales momentum, Aaron Platt to do like the build out for the data side of it and kind of the flow. Uh-huh. But that doesn't necessarily solve, like it makes it easier in the dashboard and all the data in one place, which has been a mess. But like we don't have anything for reviews, management, scorecards.
SPEAKER_04Well, so to be honest, like our team to management ratio is not big enough to where I feel like we need like a call review AI software. Um, it's funny, we could it's not that hard to build. Like, we could build one. Somebody on our team actually used to build one, so I could like inherit theirs if I really wanted it internally or something like that. But um, it would only be really used to identify for the managers which calls to review. Like maybe flag hey, I think this closer missed this deal. Like, I think this is a closable deal. Because like where you want to target your call reviews on the call is is the calls I call the fringe deals. Calls that should have should didn't close, but should have closed. Right? So, but we don't have that just because I think our coverage is good enough with our manager to rep ratio to not have that. Uh, I used to have an AI SMS thing. I just built it myself. This was back in like 2023. That was for the RCA side, it would automate all the text triage and then it would allow the setters to come in and take over. But the credits back then at least, it would probably be way less expensive now. The credits were like so much that I was like, dude, this automates like two messages for the setters. Like, what what productivity game am I really getting here? Um, so we don't have that. Mock dialers, you can test it for old leads again. I'm just I'm just having my guys rip dialer. Yeah. And especially with dialer, we we can output so many dials. I just have my my pipeline setters hit those. So the only thing I think on the sales side, I could be missing something because it's like we use AI for a lot of stuff, but the main thing is sales kick, which my CMO build, that's a whole software product that uses AI for the app grading and lead routing. Yeah, it's also that. Well, it's not a replacement, it's really uh it it's a replacement kind of for your sales uh coordinator in a way, right?
SPEAKER_01The human, not the not like Calendly.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, not yet. So I'll get to that in a second. So it essentially automatically through AI grades the applications, and you know, we've tested it, we have it about at a 98% thing. So like in our sales coordinator will go through each morning and just make sure it did it all right. It'll also in real time move the appointments to where they need to be in the calendar. So, like, I'll give you an example. If let's say you have a sales coordinator who works US hours, right? They're gonna wake up at 8 a.m. on a Tuesday, and then they're gonna take off all the unqualified applications that are like spam or whatever. Well, what happens is inevitably that leads to open slots on your calendar because they'll do that as the day is going on, but obviously they can't do it when they're sleeping, or if they do, you have to hire a second person that's overseas to look at the appointments that are coming in overnight. So what happens is is like I might be a closer and have five appointments on my calendar in the morning, and then then it started booking booking out on the next day, but then some of these were spam, so now I have three appointments on my calendar today, and then I have some that I gotta call and try to pull forward, but with sales kick that won't happen. So it does that, it does all the confirmations through AI and the SMS confirmations, and honestly, like it's pretty much as good. I think the deliverab the deliverability is better using SMS. We did a test, then the iPhone and then Semblu and the iPhone iPhone iPhone factory. Yeah, I mean, look, I was very hesitant when I saw the results, but I think when you're at my scale, what happens is is okay, if we were to use real people with iPhones, they'd each have to have like three iPhones, and we'd have to have like a bunch of people just because we have so many appointments. And then the other thing is so many lines get burned, and you have to test the lines like a ton. And so inevitably, when the lines get burned, what happens is is you don't really know for a couple of days, and then that drops your confirmation rate. So when we switched over to SMS, we did a test, and our amount of confirms that we actually got were higher. And so there's that, and our show rate went up as well.
SPEAKER_01I think I solved this. So we were on one of the Blue Send data platforms, and we moved to a different one that was much better cost and just looked like it had a better kind of like managerial zone on it versus just one of these ones that's like because what the issue was is it uh it basically was connecting a contact to a number and then that was it for a long time, and then it was like, Oh, I passed my phone to the you know, when you go from setter to closer, I pass my phone. It's like this weird thing in the OG days, and then they kind of added some other features, but so we ended up on a different one, which I'll talk I can tell you off this, and uh the three-way texting. So you can do group three-way texting. Sure. So the ad confirm or the the imp, they're like, okay, cool, yep, let me just drop you a thing right now, boom, yep, you got assigned with XYZ closer, and they drop a group chat of the setter, the closer, and the person in blue.
SPEAKER_04But this is only off the setter.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but all but and when they get ad confirm, so they all go through a setter.
SPEAKER_04Well, okay, so obviously if our setter books somebody, the setter just handles the confirmation of the appointment. Yeah, right. But if it I'm talking if it just comes from a direct booking from app.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so then you try and do it through an ad confirm, which is like for us, we get like 60% of them confirmed.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and they're just using iPhones.
SPEAKER_01No, they're using this tool.
SPEAKER_04So is a tool a send blue type of thingy?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. And they use it and it's native. So like the rule of 50 a day or whatever new contacts is made up. It could be you could get burned on 20, you could get burned on 200. Yeah. Um, the so like we don't use it for blasts, for example. Like, you cannot use it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you gotta like scatter across. Right. And the other issue is yeah, you hit this, then you gotta move to multiple lines when you have more volume and all this stuff. It's not an issue when it's actually like a human using it. It's basically just like a computer version of an iPhone instead. Like it's a desktop version of an iPhone. Um and you just don't run into as many like those issues. There's still issues, for sure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but like I feel like I feel like this is a unique you you know, you're good with this stuff.
SPEAKER_01I feel like for most people, it's just I'm proud to say I didn't even set it up or wasn't part of it, which is great in my in in my land, but yeah, no, that that's how we're solving for it. And we saw a big uptick when we initially did it, and then there's like all these bugs and things and stuff that have happened over time, so like I don't even know. I don't know. I I just know that the green, out-of-the-box, kind of canned ones were never friendly, but I also know that we have a bunch of Android and our demo and all that, like really nice.
SPEAKER_04It is tough because with you gotta think, just with Apple, they they don't want you to do this. No, right? SMS is built to do this, yes. So you ultimately and it's the same thing with dialer. The reason dialer works better is because it's more compliant with the way it's set up, and whenever you have more compliance, you have more deliverability, and when you have more deliverability, you have more results. But we're going back to salescape, the other thing is that the calendar, we'll start intern uh testing it internally for us in the next week or two. We're waiting for authentication with Google. And then once we get that, we'll have basically a replacement for OneTub. And that's gonna change the game because. I can't believe you use OneTub. It's dude, with all the functionality we need for moving appointments. For moving appointments, all of this is the last one. In double single booking, you have to use it. But even if you compare it to Calendly or whatever else, the time it takes to go through uh scheduling a time and and filling out the application, we tested it with both identical for uh flows, and it shaves off like 10 to 15 seconds, which is like I think of the entire thing, like 30 to 40 percent. So that's gonna increase conversions a lot. Also, I just think it's way better like CRO optimized for like building like build for an internal enterprise internal team communication thing.
SPEAKER_01So you bit you're building like iClose from the back. So like you already did the back side and now you're gonna be able to get it.
SPEAKER_04And then it also has so much more like lead delegation, just weighting of bookings and making sure the best people go to the best closers and a bunch of other functionality that I can do.
SPEAKER_01How does it know the best closers then you you push in?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, based on the app grade and the weight of grade of the app, it can delegate the best ones to the best ones.
SPEAKER_01How does it know who the best closer is is because you know who it pushed?
SPEAKER_04We're gonna input it into the system and then wait who's gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_01And then you update it, and then you just update based on 14-day trailing or 30 or whatever. Yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like we yesterday did uh uh Aaron Platt talked at um next thing, and he was talking about like Roka, and I was like, what about net versus like gr versus gross on spend now that we have this like low ticket piece? And uh he's like, Yeah, we and I always did it, so it was net net new cash basically divided by uh cost of bookings, but I also added commission amount. So it was like straight up like a return on rep. Like literally, what did we pay them? What do we pay for bookings? What do we pay them? And like the next thing I could have done is like what is their software cost? Like, what is the true all-in cost? Right. And then versus like what they brought in net. And uh it's pretty that that's a pretty interesting stat for us. We have that too.
SPEAKER_04So we but it's just very simple because we just allocate the spend evenly per rep based on the amount of slots that they have, or we take our cost per cost per scheduled call, and then depending on how many slots they have open, we can assign all of the how much spend weighted to each rep. Because some reps take more calls than others, like some might have 10 slots open today, some might have seven.
SPEAKER_01So here's four.
SPEAKER_04And then we can see what their closes are and then what the actual return is per rep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, per, yeah. How do your clients or you've you've had in the uh in the past, how do you grade an application in the health industry? Well, you're not asking what's your net worth, how much are you willing to wire live on the call.
SPEAKER_04What's your grade right now? I would have to like it's it's not top of mind because it's not something that I'm actually doing, but I would imagine occupation is the big one, right? Because with occupation, and then you can even speed speed that, and then yeah, it's like what do you do for work? Because that does relate to health stuff is like what do you do for work. I think that's the number one thing. And then you can test having a financial qualifier question in there or not. I think what's better, this is another sales kick test, is we found that 50% of people, this was with one client, lied on their financial application on their financial question. Meaning if they said they had whatever your version is of I have no money, 50% of people who said they have no money actually had money, and 50% of people who said they had money had no money. It was it's not exactly 50%, but it was around there. So essentially you're you're DQing these people who have money. Maybe they don't have intent, that's a different story, but they don't have money and you're just de queuing them. And so we tested with that client removing that question, and it also increased a 20% throughput. And then you just do financial data, which does cost money, but like the it outweighs it now, like two bucks.
SPEAKER_01Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I I think the financial data thing is, and that's another thing SalesKick will do, is essentially with the financial data. Oh, it does do that. With the financial data, it'll take that and weight that into the grade real time. So like you could even have it to where the people with the most physically the most money based on the financial data go to the best closers.
SPEAKER_01And it's name, email, phone, and it pulls Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so the way it has to happen is I think, again, like you're asking me all these technical questions, and I'm very much not the technical guy, but it's like in the beginning, you have to have name, email, phone number first, so it can send it back before they finish.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that has been our so we've never used one of those, and so we're in our health world for B2C, it's huge. We use that's makes that makes a lot of sense, but we yeah, we've never done it. So the financial qualifier-ish, the the only qualifying question we have in ours is how much have you uh invested in the past into yourself within this like XYZ thing. Right. That's not a bad one. It's it's uh zero to one, one to five, five to ten, ten, uh whatever. And uh we basically just the zero to ones, we just push to a DQ one, but we take all the DQ calls still. We just put them on the low, it's like the lower router versus the higher router in terms of that, and then setters all go to the higher one as well, as like kind of the buckets. But yeah, that's super interesting. We I I don't know, we were just doing so much volume for so long that the that using one of these tools was like seven, ten, fifteen, twenty like a month in order to do that. Well, and same thing with what you're saying is like the time in which it took it for to go back and forth to route. We were using like jot, and then it's like how are you gonna like push and then put them on the right page?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's like eventually for your call funnels, even though you're trying to get rid of it, you should when especially when the calendar feature comes out, you should look into Sales Kick because I think it's gonna be by far. We are so in the calendar disgusting, but like I'm down like telling me I I don't know why I can never explain it. I always remember my team tells me, and then I forget. But there's a there's something for most people can work, but as you get into this double single booking, rerouting all this stuff, there's some functionality, there's like one or two things it can't do. It's has gotten it. A lot of things.
SPEAKER_01You can't like when you try and change it. But I hate once up the piece of shit. When they made some new update that you like go to edit something and literally just like does one of the like even just the time of in which to like go through the admin portal to find something you need takes like minutes to find like it's terrible.
SPEAKER_04So one thing that you could test that we did with our B2C is the issue with the financial data is great for lead routing and and app quality, but the thing is is you can't really send it back to the pixel because if you do, you can only do it US only. So what happens is if you're doing US, Canada, Britain, let's say, only the US is only the people who have money from the US will send, but those countries will send everything, and then all your spend will go to those countries. Interesting. So that sucks. But here's how so I don't do it on the front end anymore, but what I did is for the opt-in, I changed the CTAs in the ad. This is just for B to C to say like to make it seem like hey, fill out the short personalized form, and we'll send you the training or whatever that's custom to your goals. And frankly, like, okay, you should probably create a couple videos, but you could just send them the same video. And then what that does is you can ask occupation in that, or you can ask some sort of question that sort of like segments, yeah, and then that becomes what you send back to the Pixel for B2C. That has helped lead quality so much, and in that way it works across all the countries. So it's kind of like a quiz funnel, but it's still the VSL. We're on a quiz. And it's just no, no, um, they can't enter name, email, phone number, or anything like that. Or no, no, we do do that because we call the leads. So they do enter name, email, phone number, but the first questions are just they're all just quick multiple choice.
SPEAKER_01That's yeah, yeah. Super interesting.
SPEAKER_04So what do you do? Because with low ticket, the big thing, you mentioned obviously creative production, which I would say, by the way, that's the big thing when everybody gets in a low ticket, it's so much more creatively demanding than the call funnel. But what I would say is it's more of a reveal because with low ticket, if you're not making enough creatives, obviously you see it in your CPAs going up, right? The thing is, with the call funnel, it kind of absorbs the spend more.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But the thing is, if you do make more creatives, your lead quality with the call funnel will go way up as well. So that's one thing. I feel like the low ticket almost reveals like your lack of creative quality that you're at with your call funnel. But I'm curious, like, you're doing a bunch of creatives, like, what's your new process?
SPEAKER_01Nothing yet. That's that's so that's what we're trying to build into.
SPEAKER_04So it's you know what you're trying to build.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. So I so first off, we had Luke, co-founder, right? Like, he is the one who got like was spending, he did product market fit, and then he also was the one who spent it spending for us like up to like 20 a day. So it was literally like me basically doing like marketing tech structure, us talking about this. I was more plugged in the industry. He was the actual like copywriting, like looking at the creative and doing all the media buying, and like that was it was us, and then we had like a copywriter for a long time, right? And then newly we've tested, we tested agencies, and that was like this big flop, and we didn't have loads of like this whole thing. We then last year was the first time like let's build an in-house full team on the marketing side. Yeah, so um it was it was a tough kind of learning curve, but I'm saying all this to be like we now are breaking out organic from paid because we've been 99% paid first click always. We have a ton of content that all exists middle and bottom of funnel, and it's like a consumption game, which again does work, and like they raise their hand when they're ready, and like we send two emails a day plus automations plus the system. But the new structure of the team is like an organic director on the side, and I'm like, how do we get to 120 pieces a week? We're at 10. And like, what does that organic creative machine look like? And two different two different teams. So we're gonna have an organic, um, basically, like we have the director, we're gonna have a social media like a coordinator post person, and then we're gonna have like mass amounts of short form editors, mass amounts of this. Everyone I talk to is like burn through agencies, actually. It's even better to do that, which I thought was very interesting. I've heard that twice now. And it's like you get an agency that's can pump out hundreds a week, they go internal, they basically push internal, they have access to all the reporting, and then they post, and then after X amount of months, they basically are like in this lull or like it needs something new and creative, and then you have this other agency that fills and you just constantly churn them. I'm like, that's interesting. You hear Homose talk about like, oh, we just learn from them and then bring it in-house.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I've heard now three of the other big names of people in our world have bought uh short form agencies or have bought organic content agencies that then have basically gone to zero internal once they bought them, and then they've gone back to using external agencies. Like it's very interesting art.
SPEAKER_04So we don't you just don't we don't know.
SPEAKER_01We don't on the organic, I'm gonna try and do it in house.
SPEAKER_04I think I'm gonna do it in-house. I've been so on the media side, the few things I've learned, and it's limited because we're just really kicking it off this year, is number one, it should not it's a totally different department than your ads. Yes. I mean that might sound like common sense, but we used to try to like do it all in one meeting. And obviously, what's like the pressing stuff if you're ads dependent is always gonna be the ads. So the social media just so we had the it's like a new division, right? We just new meeting, break it out. So there's some crossover with people, but you gotta break it out. Um and then I would say the thing, I mean, it's fine to use an agency at first, but all the best people have it internal. And I think that you that I think that's where you want to go towards. Yes. I would say I think the only thing we're thinking about agencies about, not for YouTube, but like for short form, is just increased distribution. Because the thing is, is like if you have clipping like agency-wise, yeah, because like we're even thinking about okay, we have an agency for short form, but internally we can build a function, and then why why even let go of the agency? Because they're finding totally different stuff, or even the filming I do with that agency is totally different. So let them keep doing what they're doing, and then we build, you know, four posts a day or three posts a day internally, and then that way we just have bigger distribution. Yeah. And then hiring a different agency for the sub account thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. For so, yeah, so we're breaking the organic one, similar mindset of oh, let's build it in-house and do that for organic. On the paid side, it's gonna the difference is like still gonna have short form editor, still gonna have a couple graphic designer, right? Like there, but then you have a creative strategist, which we were talking about, like that's specific for paid, that gets the recipes right on what's working now, passes down, then they also have like a new iterations, they have like iteration department, and they have like new department, yeah, where they're constantly cycling there. Um, because again, I talked to these, I went to another mastermind that was an affiliate specific one. They guys, like, yeah, we test like 500 or 1000 new a week. And I'm like, how do you think I'm like pulling up our like scorecard? I'm like 26 tested last week. Like spending similar ish amounts, um, completely different ball game when it's you know uh direct response, lead gen versus brand, and but like still. Um so that's like the big change or direction there, but I don't know because I I I don't know on the distribution of short form. I am so back and forth on this. You talk to Iman or any of these guys? No, I'd like to talk to him as some. So his I don't know if the market's where it is, is uh probably the a good preface for this because when it was the Tate model and it was that, yeah, that's when Iman did it. So he talks about this in his program and his stuff, but he built in-house. And the main core reasoning is the control. Yeah. So you can just push the narrative to whatever direction you want at whatever time. You have a new offer, you have a new cycle, you have this, you want to be fame, you want it to be towards it. I think you can control it, but he had like a hundred people internal that were clipping, like they were clipping essentially, and then they own all the pages.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and the more I think about it with short form, because I've been thinking a lot about like YouTube, I feel like we have a very concrete strategy, and YouTube is also naturally more of a top-of-funnel platform. Um with short form, it's like, especially Instagram and YouTube Shorts, it's like tough. Yeah, you know, it's like I don't see a lot of people doing like a post or two a day, and then unless there's something that happens outside of the Instagram, or they just have like something you don't see as many people predictably grow on Instagram. No, but I think the more I think about What are they doing the wrong way? Yeah, I think a lot of it is a volume. Game. Like I think that I mean obviously you have to have good content. Yeah. So it's you can't just post a bunch of shit. Yeah. But like that's why I'm trying to get my page up to four or five posts a day and then have the subaccount strategy, and if they're able to do another 15 across subaccounts by repurposing all of the stuff we're doing on the main side, and they all point to the main skill. And they all point to the main and they're all shared to the business manager so I can pixel all the views and then I can retarget with those views.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We don't so then comes the next thing. Okay, so it's like, alright, you solve for that, then DM setting. And or Link and Bio for or you know many chat or something. So like we don't even have we have no DM settings. Yeah, I know. It's like a whole other thing. You gotta do.
SPEAKER_04It's thankfully it's not that hard. It's pretty, it's pretty simple, but I would say don't throw it on some random person on your team. Be like, hey, you're managing the DM setters now. I think you just need to hire somebody to do it. Yeah. I mean, there's actually decent agencies who do it too, DMSetting.com. They they sent me a loom on my DM setting, and honestly, I was like, yeah, we need to do some things better.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But I would imagine for the creative, for the ad side, you would have probably somebody responsible for finding or a team how to convert organic into ads. Another person or two, or however many you want, just AI. Right? Another person just remixing top performers. And then another group of ed I mean, this is if you wanted to fucking blow it up. And then another group of editors uh dedicated to new angles and new creative production. Like that's kind of I don't know if that's how you would think about it, but if I was trying to get to like a hundred like tons, yeah, that's probably where I would be thinking.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm going for hundreds. I I have this whole like I feel like it's literally right there. I could, if you I had a whiteboard, I could like show exactly what it is, which for a very long time I could not. Yeah. Before it was like more of the same, scale the current thing, and now it's like, well, this lever pulled here on so the marketing side, it's like, okay, let's get organic to 50% of bookings. Like, how insane would that be and what would that take? Right? And it's like, what would that look like? And how do let's just go there and land in the stars, right? Like type of message.
SPEAKER_04The nice thing with health though, dude, is health is much easier to scale short form-wise. Agreed. Especially with a uh woman face. Agreed.
SPEAKER_01And we have multi-face. So it's like, if I go from back to front, like organic being the very front, with three-band faces, I want to go full like influencer army mode, and whether that's per post, ideally it's per like CPA style Rev share, because now we have direct to cart that we can do. Instead of going to leads, you don't have to wait for X amount of time for like some CPA on some large thing. You can do CPA now shorter because there's like cash there. Um, so it's like that whole army of things. Do you go into physical products? You can leverage TikTok shop and all that, we can do that in our market. So it's like there's organic direct response shifts to 90 plus percent is direct to cart. So then your economics of that plus the economics of that, like you have a zero, like you know, dream world, but you have a zero or profitable essentially front end because of that, with those blended. Then it goes into an extremely high-performing, high-ticket team that can just scale linear, like as the booking flow continues to rise and go there, boom, then you go into the high ticket land, and then on the back is I'm that's I'm like tripling down on. Yeah. So I have we're going subs and physical products and in real life, and like all the yeah.
SPEAKER_04So what would you say would be the biggest kind of like challenges slashes things you're working on now? So there's organic, right? Scaling the low ticket, scaling. You gotta figure out the setters. Then you mentioned obviously maybe launching a physical product side at some point. Sure. What else?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Like what else in addition to the show?
SPEAKER_04Or did I just name all the challenges?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, no. Those are uh that's pretty much it. Yeah, yeah, those are uh pretty difficult. Um yeah, yeah, I don't think I need any more on my place. Yeah, no, no, no. Uh it's it's a lot. Um it's a lot. So I think we'll be good on the organic side, it'll take time. I think the culture shift of the sales side, adding fun, new blood, like we're we'll need a larger team in order to do the volume we're talking about doing. Yeah. Um, so that's like the acquisition piece. And then we get the economies of the direct response, and we can continue to scale into that. There's also like within that lane, there's do you do partnership affiliate, influencer army, like yeah, but then you remove the call. So, okay, cool, is it break even and then you just get 10,000 customers a day? Yeah. Like there's that world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh, because we could play that game. And then all the consumption, all the email, uh everything becomes the squeeze. So it's like we start the weekly webinars now starting next week inside the community that's the free/slash low-ticket community that didn't exist. There's 10 bookings a week, 100 bookings a week, like who knows?
SPEAKER_04One thing about your organic that you can build that'll actually help build it quite well is using the low-ticket community as a way to kind of filter back to your organic. Yeah. I know this is this sounds a little strange, but when I did on YouTube, when I first did sales content, my views were honestly like for how, for how like the content wasn't up. I just would get on and just be like, okay, here's how to handle an objection. Like I didn't do any of the YouTube best practices, packaging, titling, whatever. But what really helped is like I quickly had a base of like probably five to ten thousand people who were in our low tickets or in our program who would naturally like literally on their feed just watch every video. And so that kind of helped do it. But then once we stopped RCA, then I drop a sales video, I could tell like it just reset back down to like 2K. Yeah, you know? Yeah. So I think that'll help a lot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so too. What do you think the I watched the Ravi one before this, and this is like comical of the difference? Uh we're just we're in it. We're super in it. We are in it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. We're like, I'm like, dude, you're it's it's 9 a.m. and you're asking me about like how we like do this automation and this we round, like, fuck man, I, you know, I gotta ask some guy on my team.
SPEAKER_01It's like that. Um, but what do you think to go a little outside of that? What do you think is your next like skill set evolution or like what's the gap?
SPEAKER_04Well, there's a couple, right? So I would say the biggest one I'm spending time on is the media side. And and specifically a couple of things is like, how do I, because I don't really want both because personally I don't want it, and I don't I think there's a good business case. I don't want to do, I don't want to be like Jeremy Minor, right? Like where he for the last decade plus and probably for the next decade, he's doubled down on just sales, sales training for all industries. Well, number one, I don't do all industries for sales training. Number two, I help people either get into sales or I help sales teams. Yeah. Right? So like getting just sales people doesn't really hit my target market. And it's just, I'm also just not, I like sales, right? Do I want to make every video about sales? I just don't, right? So the big thing I'm trying to work on is okay, for our new content strategy, which is much more broader, right, and more like brand focused and just trying to expand and get a lot of views. Okay, great. If I'm doing that though, how do I sort of categorize myself to where, you know, uh Dan Martell's kind of the SAS AI business influencer guy right now? You have Cody Sanchez who's the boring business, right? Like there's a a brand association. Um I've had the benefit of being the like sales guy, which is great. I don't mind that. But for like YouTube and organic, what's my kind of new association, so to speak? Like that's kind of something that I'm and I still want to do sales content, don't get me wrong. But that's one of the things that's a little and maybe it still is sales, I just do it in a different way. So that's one thing. The other thing is is just I think the more I do content, the more the bar raises of like, oh my god, okay, I gotta get to this level in terms of how I write YouTube videos, how I do the hooks, how I create open loops. Like, I really gotta like just up my skill set on that, and um, and then just compress the time it takes me down to do it. So like I'll give you a good example. I can write a banger VSL, but I might spend two weeks on it. In the YouTube game, like you can't really, I mean, sure, you could do that, but I can't I want to put out two videos a week. So like I need to get good enough to be able to also do it much quicker.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then I'm also trying to figure out the short form side. So like that's a whole thing there. The second thing is is where I really want to take the company, like we could just continue to do what we're doing now, and progressively just by spending a little bit more on ads and hiring more salespeople, which we really have enough salespeople now. We just made two hires yesterday, so we're pretty much where we need to be. If we just um don't do anything, and we just more and better of what we're doing, as Hormosy would say, we'll be at about 200 new sales a month for B2B. That, and this is kind of crazy, but to fully realize like our front-end revenue on the back end, it will take about 18 months to even two years because so much of it compounds, and we get even second-year renewals and all this stuff, right? But uh from the from the moment we hit and maintain 200 units a month, let's call it a year from there, just rough napkin math, we should double the company. Yeah, so just the B2B, five million a month. Then I'm rebuilding the RCA. I really want to build that mainly through organic. I don't really want to run a bunch of paid ads through it. Um just the custom, especially B2C, the customers are way better organic. And so that's kind of my main monetization for my content, anyways, which is why I want to go broader. So that I just want to get to like 10 mil. I think that's a for a B2C like that, I think that's like a safe, good number. So that's 60, right? So then what's like the next things? So the next things I'm focusing on is essentially we're launching a new division that is it's not two enterprise companies, but it's kind of called our enterprise division for enterprise pricing. So this is people who need enough reps, like you would technically fall into this category if they need more than let's say 10 to 20 reps a year, to where like we you just pay us if you hire the rep. That's it. Like you might pay your first hire down, which is might be four grand or five grand, and then you just pay as you go. And then if you want to stop, you stop, we keep you in Slack, and then if you want to let us know you want more, I mean that could be two years later, whatever. But it's just like we send you people, you only pay us if you hire them, and then if they churn for whatever reason, we just credit it back to you and give you somebody else, or we'll just refund you the payment. So it's like no risk, and for much more higher volume people, it's much more economical than what we used to do, which is like, okay, to recruit, you kind of got to be in our mastermind. Like, that's good for people.
SPEAKER_01But you mean for higher volume people?
SPEAKER_04You mean like people who need like 30 reps a yeah, 20 reps a year. They're trying to build a settered apartment from scratch, or they're a roofing company and they need yeah, pitching, or they're a roofing company that needs like I'll give you an example. Like, we worked with this private equity uh company that was rolling up like roofing companies, and you know, just for their just to maintain a hundred reps, which is where they're at, with like a 10% churn, they need 10 reps a month, right? They're internal recruiters, they have to do the entire team, so they just need more firepower on the sales side. So we kind of want companies like that that even just with their churn, they gotta have a function that just keeps new reps coming in. So I'm launching that division to go after companies who have more of an ongoing need. And also, if they're above five to ten-ish reps in their current team, we can do any industry. The issue with doing any industry with where my business is at right now is the problem is is if you're a roofer hiring your first rep, like I can't really build, I mean, I probably could, but like we're not gonna like coming in and okay, I gotta teach you on how to be a leader, I gotta get you out of the roofing fulfillment and the roofing sales, build that, like that's not really my specialty. But if you already have 10 sales reps in your roofing company, I mean I can come in and tweak a lot of your processes, but at the same time, like your stuff's validated. So I could just as long as I can take your best 20% of reps and create a model from that, my recruiters, outbound, inbound, etc., they can get you those right people. Yeah, so then that opens us up to the whole market, which as you can imagine, like that almost gives us a B2C level of scale, but with a B2B super high ticket. Yeah, like the hormones you get the smaller. So that's kind of like the thing, just doing more of what we're doing is party number one. Launching this, I call it the broad 2.0 or like the enterprise division. That's sort of number two. Number three, and this is a contingency on if that upmarket approach works, or if it does work, we're still gonna do this anyways. Is we have like our recruiting division is almost a company in and within itself, and it's extremely good. So we can do, and we've already done all other hires up, you know, except like outside of sales too. So I'd like to go into a different sector completely, like home service techs, just to diversify and then have like a different brand that license and uses our recruiting as a shared service. Does that make sense? So we would go after, let's say, home service companies, and hey, we'll place you techs. Yep. The nice thing about that is if you need to hire a tech, or if I do healthcare, if you need to hire a nurse, you don't need with sales. You have to have a good offer in place, you have to have good lead generation, you have to be a decent sales leader for that hire to even work, or it's a very high churn risk. That's one of the biggest issues I have at my company, and sometimes it's like, you know, they might not have everything in place, and then like somebody churns, isn't it? It's kind of tough. But if you just are a doctor in Miami and you don't have any of that stuff, but like you're busy and you want a nurse, you're willing to pay a nurse, whatever, we can get you a nurse. I don't need to consult you on all this other stuff. You should just do telehealth. So, um, and yeah, like getting uh virtual nurses for telehealth companies. So because what I want to do is have, let's say, in the next five years, a like this is what I've screwed up before. I had a portfolio of offers, but they were just random. I want to have a portfolio of offers, but really it's just it turns us into not just a sales recruiting company, but a recruiting conglomerate that is diversified to these different industries. And that's really important because let's say AI replaces sales. I don't think that's gonna happen, at least for the sales that we do anytime soon, but let's just say it does. Well, if I'm also doing electricians and placing those in the companies and there's a lot of data center development, like I'm gonna be hedged in that way. Healthcare is probably not gonna go anywhere, right? Uh, it's so heavily regulated, it's just gonna be so tough. So, like, that's another good sector. Home service techs, unless I mean, if we're at the point where your HVAC person is a literal robot driving to your house and doing your unit, I mean, I don't know. We're living in a different world at that time. So that also is a good hedge. Yeah. And so, and I'm also approaching like I built this business model with recruiting that essentially nobody else does, right? No other recruiters do this like extremely high volume. We're faster than almost all recruiters. We get all of our clients through ads, very rare for recruiting. Um, we do like a transactional high-ticket sales model, very rare for recruiting. So I've built this like unique model, and this is the first time I'm stepping back and looking at first principles, and I'm like, okay, I've always assumed I had to do sales recruiting. But if I just approached this as like, I'm gonna start a new recruiting business based on like macro data and economics and all this stuff, what is just like the best industry to get into? That's how I'm gonna approach it in the future. Yeah, and then but well, only the nice thing is the complexity, it's not building another company in the portfolio, it's really just I gotta get the marketing down, which can just be lead gen. That's the nice thing about B2B, which makes it a lot easier than doing low ticket. I just gotta get the lead gen down. I can do that, and then I have an amazing distribution of sales directors. So I just gotta place the right sales director, get the lead generation down, and then maybe we hire a couple specialized recruiters on our staff, but it's still in that same division because they're licensing from that staff. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So that's kind of like, and I think just penciling it out, it will take time because it's a service. That's the thing about B2B, it's not like this. But there's no reason that can't do 150 to 200 million years. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. How do you look at uh where do you think you need to change to do that? Because like I feel like I feel like the last year for me for context was like almost understanding. And I like like the it just felt like a big year of experience, like a lot of activity, a lot of like stuff that went wrong, and like a lot of learnings. But the bigot, like I feel like a year ago I couldn't do what you just did, and now I can do as well, which is like here's the plan. Like it's like it's very obvious as to like how it happens.
SPEAKER_04And that is crazy. This is the first time I feel like I've had a very clear, executable plan of how to get past a hundred a year.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Before I'm like, yeah, I kind of have this hypothesis, but I don't know. Like now it's like, even if let's say our upmarket motion doesn't work for whatever reason, I know these other things work. Because like I've I've even seen it, like, there's a company who does construction placement doing a million five a month, but they have a recurring revenue model, pretty cool, faceless brand, too. And I mean they're gonna sell for a lot of money, and they just place for construction, and they modeled all my ads. Their ads are literally my ads, niche down. Their ads are my ads, and then it was funny. I was explaining this at a uh at an event. I'll tell you who this is after, but somebody was like, bro, he's like, is it this company? And I was like, Oh yeah, it's them. And he's like, he's like, Yeah, that's my client. And he's like, We totally modeled your ads, and I was like, Yeah, I would do the same thing too. But they were literally doing like my classic, like, five reasons why ad, the direct offer ad. I mean, the same like so many of your ads.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_04People just model it verbatim, but it just goes to I mean, it that's proof right there that construction, boom, I mean, it it'll work. The key is I have to find people who the owner will reply to an ad, right? And that we can kind and they'll also close in a one to two week time frame.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And uh, you know, we can recruit for. And then they have an ongoing need. Yeah. So that's kind of that's kind of the idea. But how you're gonna ask, how do I need to change?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, yeah, like how do you need to change, but also like What do you think took so long, or what do you think was in the last year, call it? What change that now allowed you to be able to see it so clearly? And I and I say and I almost say this like selfishly because I'm like, what did up what was I doing here? I know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think that you just gotta do a lot of dumb shit, to be quite frank. I just don't know like why this is pretty obvious. I don't know. I was so I think I also had a very big conflict for a while of am I gonna be this sales trainer guy for the rest of my life, or am I gonna do recruiting? Like, I didn't know, and I had also been people they when they like when my name comes up, they're like, Oh yeah, he's a sales guy. Which I, you know, I kinda am. That's like my personality too. But so I was kind of cornered into that identity, which I think led me to try to do more of that stuff. So I think that's number one. I went through this whole era of a portfolio thing, which that also caused another identity crisis because we had scaled up the medical company so big. So there was like a three-month period where I was like, I I've grown this medical company faster than I've grown anything I've ever touched. So maybe I'm a medical guy now. So like I didn't know am I a private equity guy? Like, what am I what and then when I kind of came back, it it took a time when I was full-time in the B2B to just kind of calibrate to this. And we had tried the thing is I had the right instinct in 2024 because we had tried going up market, I just did it the wrong way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, I could go into the details of that, but I just I had the wrong ad copy and I got the wrong people it worked, but I the wrong people were on the phone. So I don't know. I think it just took some time, but I'll tell you like the inspiration this is gonna sound goofy. But did you watch the podcast with John Morgan on My First Million? Probably. The Morgan and Morgan guy, he has the multi-billion dollar recruiting firm. Or the sorry uh lawyer firm.
SPEAKER_01I listened to every single week text about that.
SPEAKER_04And I was like, man, first of all, that that episode was sick. Yeah. And then I watched the one on Patrick Bat David 2, and I'm like, okay, this Morgan and Morgan guy is like, you know, pretty legit, alright. And he just has a lawyer firm, you know, injury, but he does pretty much everything, and they're doing billions of dollars a year in revenue. And then that kind of solidified for me. I'm like, if I want to create a big company, like it's not in probably sales training, it's in professional services, which is the recruiting. So that got me thinking towards that. And then one day I was on ChatGPT or Gemini or whatever, and I was researching the model for this broad thing I wanted to do. Because I knew I knew I needed to change the we have like a very info high tick high tickety model for our current business. I knew I needed to change it for um going up market, like the pricing model had to be different. And I just it just dawned on me like I've just made this assumption I've had to do sales. Like, what other industries would even be better for this? And lo and behold, there's like a bunch.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I think that was a thing. And also, you know, I heard Eddie say this, Eddie Belouf, is you know, the reason he's able to scale so big is he's scaled more horizontally than he has vertically, which in services it is very tough to like just keep scaling and scaling and scaling. It's not kind of like what you do where you know you can do a low ticket and then get totally better economics and all of this stuff. And I mean I've had I had a taste of that. Like when we had the three offers ripping at full steam, we did crack a seven million cash collected month. But the problem, uh problem was is none of them related to the same kind of like mission. Yeah, you know, and so I had a taste of that, and I was kind of thinking about what Eddie said, and I was like, you know, I think that and I have the distribution of sales directors, I know I can create marketing for it, and I've managed that before. So going horizontal like that, I think is like the play. Like I think that's what's gonna allow us to do it. And you know, there's tons of companies, Amazon, etc., like they grow through teams of teams or like companies within. companies. So it just clicked. And it's also something like that sounds cool to me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Like when I look back, do I really want to I just don't want to look back when I'm 80 and be like a sales guru. That's just not my thing. Yeah. I'm much more of like a business guy. Like I like high powered like intellectual stuff that the sales isn't. It just to me that just I don't feel like I'm growing in that path. So this also is something I'm like fuck I'm like excited about. Yes. Yeah. But I think the big things you ask what do I need to change? Number one, with this content side, which is important, I just need to get in a rhythm enough to do it in less time.
unknownRight?
SPEAKER_04Which I'm sure is going to happen the more I do it. Because right now it's like my whole week's just content. Yeah. Yeah. Thankfully I have a good team.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Because like my whole week is just content. Writing YouTube videos, writing scripts, writing this, writing that, and filming. So I need to collapse that time. And then I think a lot of it is just I uh you know Tommy Mello. So I ha he lives over there. Okay. So we're neighbors we got connected I went out to dinner with him doing 600 million a year. I won't say his earnings numbers but ridiculous ridiculous like crazy profit margins. Just total beast. And the thing I left from that conversation and he recommended me some books to read too I actually went over his house we played some golden tea great guy. Is I was like man like a lot of this stuff that's just leadership, CEO, good processes, etc like we probably like I'm to as we go through this, we're going to need to get that down. And just have a better like not more corporate but kind of like that type of systems coming in place. Like the book he recommended that was very good. You could read it in one sitting is it's called a 5X CEO. And essentially it's a study across like a lot of private equity companies and their CEOs and kind of similar to like good to great they analyzed all these CEOs that were under private equity companies who got put in when the company was acquired and they looked at the top 10 percentile of the CEOs that predictably across multiple different companies have produced above a certain amount of return or like an MI uh M O I C and what they did different and they just interviewed all of them and the private equity companies have done the same thing and then they distilled it down in the five things. So that was uh interesting it's a good book dude you can read it in like I read it in St. Bars in two days it's a good book.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. Yeah mine is very much so leadership people like the biggest thing I think last year was like understanding all this and we I could not have seen clearly to anything.
SPEAKER_04Yeah like it was more of the same it was just literally more of the same and I was like oh we can get it to a hundred that way and then we that you know stick around 30% margin do 30 million you know bottom line and just like sail off to the sunset essentially and like super unrealistic for any type of exit any type of any like any situation without multiple product lines without multiple you know brand face risk without like a consistency of revenue too did you I I'll send you a clip but did you see the Hermosy clip talking about one of the companies that we've talked about on this podcast that uh they're huge in health but you know he knows the guy and basically just because they're all DR and their revenue fluctuations go up and down depending on the front end offers they can't sell.
SPEAKER_01Yeah yeah yeah so I need to get away from that. Yeah um but be brand face e-comm. Yeah yeah yeah yeah so I feel good about the plan now like very clear on the plan. Now it just needs to happen and that is very clearly the skill gap like I don't know how to even put it into words necessarily but like I feel like I've always done the like trencher like even the whole personal brand is like it's raw it's like I'm in it with you I'll stay up until two in the morning and build the thing like I'm in the weeds and all this stuff but that's also um in a leadership capacity or like a connection capacity the same. So like it's very difficult to even like have a difficult conversation or like an authoritative in the personal brand stuff or in the team or whatever because I've always just been like in in it with everyone never like this. And that also comes from kind of how the company changed and cap table shifts and leadership shifts and like co-founder co-owner like that kind of stuff and like I we have super like amazing partners an amazing team but there hasn't really been like the the structural like hierarchy of like leadership necessarily yeah so then to lead leaders when it's kind of was like a little messy on that but then people in the right seats um you know reporting cadence meeting cadence like this stuff sounds so stupid but like it's very impactful um it matters and that hasn't existed so like this book I feel like I have not been a leader of leaders all of last year and because I didn't have the skill to do it and it's like you know under construction but that is like by far the unlock. And I started doing all this stuff with WAP and it's like oh we need all this team and this and this I'm like it's the same issue everywhere I go which is like the ability to recruit onboard and and lead slash manage leaders and like replace yourself out of that division and actually like continue to have the mission through get the numbers you want oh you see this and this cool shift and it actually shifts without you having to go in it and like like that is a huge discount for me right now. And this is partially self-inflicted because I do think I have the team to actually I compliment you on this all the time I was talking about you last night and I was like I from interactions I've had with your team and then also there were two uh two people at the table that um are in uh eight figure boardroom and they were like yeah like is oh this guy and this guy and like they talk so highly of your team and I like I would just call you weapon that's why I would call you and I just yeah that's my quick word but like your team.
SPEAKER_04I have a little pyramid framework and it's if you want to build a seven figure business you can probably do that by yourself. If you want to build an eight figure business you probably need a couple good like seven figure level entrepreneurs and what I mean by that is people who they might not be entrepreneurs right or like that's people misconceive what I'm trying to say. But they're people who like they're talented enough to be like man if this person really wanted to do it they could probably create a seven figure business. So they get eight figures you gotta have a few like seven figure caliber people you know in terms of their skill sets they might not have the mindset to go off and do it on their own but they're kind of like that. Then they get to um beyond that so what was that seven figures just you eight figures you probably need a couple seven figure people. I'm assuming to get to multiple eight figures you need a lot of seven figure people and then well I'm already at multiple eight figures. So you need a lot of seven figure people and then maybe one or two like potential eight figure people to get to nine figures I'm assuming you need three or four yeah like eight figure level people and then you need a ton of seven figure so look at like when I was at Hermozy's office I mean you gotta think like Sharon he's a nine I mean he's a nine figure guy right so Layla nine figure person Alex obviously nine like those are people who can take it to a billion and they probably have some other people at that level or close then like I mean so many people on their team it's like I mean there was literal people on their team and just managero roles who are like yeah I exited like a home services company for 30 million this just sounded fun. And I'm like okay well if you have people like that yeah and just mid-management which could not even like like exec like the top I'm like that's like mid-management well okay no wonder you're doing the revenue you're doing yeah and that's why I kind of what like what I just said like it all kind of does a circle and then it's like oh but it's back to me.
SPEAKER_01Like it's back to it or you know it's you then the person we just talked about right amazing person that was on our team uh got an opportunity over you know there and uh think of the things right it's like uh comp probably not better actually at all um the person that's like their leader me versus that you're gonna learn way more right they're gonna learn way more it's a better leader it's a better like more in osmosis from the organization yeah that's a big part and that's like how you become that right and it's like that's why I look at me or when I'm like oh how would you change like how are you because like it's the proximity to you it's the mis the vision you have the the all the things of you in order to continue to get more talent like that and continue to raise the bar because as you're doing this you're raising that yeah you're getting even more people and yeah comp's there and yeah this is there but like it's you as like a person being the driving force of that to even get that type of talent and then retain that talent like I just had that's an example of I didn't retain the talent because apples to apples it's not even close right now and like it can get there but it's not yeah yeah yeah and that that's how I'm like thinking of things you're you're further along I think than you're giving yourself credit for because you d I know some people on your team you do have good people very good and you at least have you're especially because what you did on YouTube you you're known enough in like warrior baby is now because the issue with what you the nice thing about my business is if it gets bigger I kinda some you know part of my business is marketing my like if we're doing 60 million let's say I'm gonna market that I'm doing that because I'm working with other people in my industry.
SPEAKER_04Does that make sense? It's kind of like because I'm helping the average coach and my or a service agency so the lessons I learn along the way so I kind of self like naturally self-market our success which is a huge advantage right but um the issue if you're not on social building your brand is that nobody I don't even know what Warrior Bay was never even heard of it. Yeah never even heard of it I'm like I don't know what that is yeah you know and I know a lot of stuff but then when you started making content now I know what it is so that'll also help you recruiting and then your leadership and retention you know you just get better at that over time. Yeah just need to get better at that time have you met uh Brandon Poyen from uh Ladybus uh connected kind of but no uh if you go into the e comm side and like kind of the brand influencer side he he lives he lives over there okay and great guy and be a good connection for you yeah because he's wicked man they're so good yeah um a lot of learning lessons there so I'm curious fun topic but what are the most this has all been fun to banger I know this is a fun topic what are the most banger just business models in the space that you've seen and by the way if you like this content and you want to come to our next event where I'm gathering all entrepreneurs people like Ryan and we're talking about what's working in the industry what's not working in the industry and the lessons that we've learned scaling to over a hundred million in total revenue we have an event coming up in our eight figure border mastermind if you want to know more information about that you can click the link in the description and it'll tell you all about it. It just can be like random I'll give you one to kind of as you're thinking about it. So like because if I had to start if I had to start another business and it couldn't be recruiting right because part of the reason I actually had the idea I had is I was like if I had to start another business in this space what would it be? And I was like fuck I'd probably just do recruiting I'd just do it for a different industry. And then I started thinking about it. But I'll give you a random one is I've noticed because I have so many just interesting clients some of the most banger offers I've seen are legal. Yeah so I was gonna say financial one that is gets people out of timeshares contracts. So it's a lawyer legal type of offer over 10 million a month. Right? Another one that's like some sort of immigration attorney I don't know exactly how to explain what they do. But um I think they're on the East Coast banger I mean I don't know what the numbers are but I know how many recruits we give them and it's a lot. Yeah so those are two that and like if you had the right partner I feel like it's very doable to do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I mean you think of like what are the what are the functions you want you want like ideally an insane LTV and you want to be able to use direct response. And I think the thing is you want B2B because I think it's so much I want like B to high net worth C.
SPEAKER_04Like is that what I'm saying? B2B caveat accessible through ads.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_04For us.
SPEAKER_01Correct you know I mean like it we're not correct you don't have to do that for our skill set that I look at the same thing I've talked about like how I would if I was to go from scratch and I actually tried to do this and just wasn't evolved enough and I don't know the partnership and whatever it was maybe the model it should have been but the anything that you can touch in financial world that you can direct response. So an example of this and I want to call their name out but it was like an inner circle early member Russell it was around the time of Lady Boss it was around the time of the of the hormone like it was around that era there was someone else who's in that group and they did a direct to cart uh auto web that was just hammering and to my understanding it was basically just liquidation. It was like a 2K offer and it was just liquidating and then they came in and then inside there it was like oh and then there's this I'm like giving away all their shit if I say all these things but whatever it's like the the there's a safe there's a safe in here it's like this mechanism and it's like oh you gotta use the safe in order to do it. And the safe was whole life insurance.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01So they all these guys are uh whole life insurance agents they're then having massive policies because they're then teaching you how to use that for then real estate investment use your dollar twice all this stuff yeah so they're liquidating free acquisition cult absolute community cult and then for it was like a fund for short-term rentals it was rehab for this it was real estate it was like boom boom boom stuff like that would be good so oh my god yeah like the commissions on whole life is like okay there's some fun LTV then the fund then this then that and then it goes like the next layer when you have the right type of community or like buyers essentially they need a state attorneys they need someone for AUM they you they need like all of those like and you certain industries have certain caveats on what you can get paid on as percents versus like CPAs and like all these deals but you could essentially have like a partner network through that you it would print like there's um three Paradigm life um I always forget the other one it's not nerdwallet that's the um there's the one that's cash flow something there's like three or four of these guys that then have like a core book funnel for consumption and they hammer and do like serious size in terms of basically just cash like just just proper those are good.
SPEAKER_04I would I would for sure get into that I like the legal stuff because you know what's funny is when I listen to that John Morgan podcast and you do know who he is right okay so he's like a big democratic donor and then I'm listening to the podcast and I'm like man this guy does not sound like a Democrat like he's like loves making money he's like I want to hunt money you know like all this stuff. I'm like oh that's interesting. And then I started to think about it and I'm like oh I get it. So the reason that he you know and a lot of lawyers are is because you know Democrats favor regulation more so than Republicans do. You know so non-political but that's just what they do. Now if you're a lawyer you want more regulation because it's more business. Yeah. And and frankly the issue is is we very rarely deregulate despite I think it being a worthy goal. We very rarely do that and the trend's probably only going to continue. So getting into that sector it's almost just a guaranteed you know as long as it's specialized and there has to be a specialized knowledge around it. Yeah. Because obviously with AI, you know the the big caveat oh you're gonna be able to do blah blah blah it has to be some sort of specialized moat around it. Yeah. And I'm not sure if like the timeshare people or whatever have that or not but that would be what you would have to look into.
SPEAKER_01But that's why I like that from a trend standpoint you know I think I I see and hear about a lot of these companies now that I'm like in in WAP and working in this space and like get to hear you know from the sales guy or whatever's happening and it is remarkable some people who are using like sections of how we run the business like we do a lot of stuff evergreen everything we do everything evergreen right it's like constantly happening and you constantly need to hire a team like all of this there are so many guys like so many that'll do one or two maybe launches a year these huge launches and they'll do like five seven whatever like basically in profit almost all and then they just spend their life like living and and that and they just run this gambit and it's either a new offer or it's the you know two point or whatever version and like I'm not even talking like the emans and whatever like he has a cadence and he does his thing and it's these new offers and they but like I'm talking guys who literally are like on offer one time a year. Yeah five to seven million bucks and then just like just chill. Just good. And they have this much time and fulfillment that's locked they have so then they only have you know team for this amount of time they have a little bit of ads for this amount of time and then it's like that's it. That's it. And then they move the cash around which you also do a really good job of like I feel like multiple times I've heard you're partnered in this company or you invest in this kind in different spaces and vectors. It's so random like but I've had good success with doing that but it's a lot of just instinct it's you had like actual liquidity from any of them? Actual what? Like like liquidity from them like if you had like you know what were you yesterday we were talking about one where you're like oh it was at this value when uh I came in this next round is going to be at this amount like have you ever had money coming out of those there's there there's three major ones that I have.
SPEAKER_04If I have any others then they didn't work. I guess there's four that I can think of that I know are working. But I haven't done like a ton of venture stuff. So there's school obviously with that there's not gonna be any um liquidity or whatever. Yeah like I just I just did an angel round. I was basically the first person outside of the immediate people from consulting.com.
SPEAKER_01I did not know that.
SPEAKER_04So yeah and I put in 500 grand. So that was great. And then um go hormones go so that could I know that could literally it's kind of kind of depressing in a way but I'm I'm happy I'm I'll take the depression is that could make me more money than isn't that crazy to think well it won't I don't think it'll make me more money than by the time it exits or there's some sort of liquidity I don't think it'll make me more money than I've ever made in business but I mean very close which is pretty crazy like in terms of what my liquid net worth is now versus what that could potentially be pretty crazy. But yeah when I heard about the herbozi thing I was like pumped. I was like oh my god this is amazing and then the launches I'm like yes so you guys are good has been great Sam's brilliant and then there's sales kick and then there's dialer uh well there's update which is the drink company that was a venture deal I did um I don't know if I can say the numbers publicly but whatever it's like at a 7x now and they just brought on an ultra ultra famous person and so I think that one's going well and then there's dial the more my more active ones are sales kick and dialer. So those if you're talking about liquidity like if they do pay distributions like I'm a partner. They do um if they do pay them but like obviously with tech you're reinvesting into devs and whatever so I'm not like expecting anything nor do I care. But those have just done really well you know I've obviously helped them send clients but they're also good products you know by themselves and they're really really good teams by themselves. And those are both like they're not there's no burn. They're both profitable. Which is good. Yeah I mean obviously at like a tech company a lot of times that doesn't happen. And I don't see I mean I feel like they both have a straight shot at success. You know I think the only question is the magnitude of success that they're going to have and I think that's a good place to be. I think they're gonna both do really well. But you know I don't have like a framework for it. It's just like stuff comes up and it just makes sense. Yeah and just relationships.
SPEAKER_01I didn't know that school one that's hilarious.
SPEAKER_04That was uh that was lucky. Yeah but yeah I just went I met you know I I knew Sam we we we met a couple of times and then when he asked me to invest I mean this was way before it even had the traction it has now like only a few people from like Quantum were on it and you know some other people I just Sam's just legitimately the smartest person I feel like I've ever met in my entire life. So I was just like I'm just betting on Sam. Yeah here you go.
SPEAKER_01Yeah all roads lead back to ovens in some way it's like that's where I met Luke.
SPEAKER_04Yeah well that's also where uh that's also where I got started in the industry. So I started with consulting accelerator tried to try to start a Facebook ads agency. Groupthink. That's what everybody was doing in that program. Just mm just mimetic desire it's just like you see somebody else doing you're like I think that's what I want to do.
SPEAKER_01Didn't I bought up level I bought up level as the first one because they were like X amount of time in where they were willing now to sell it direct instead of just Ascension and I got in there and was like oh like this is me productizing like the thing that I didn't do.
SPEAKER_04It was it was like I'm not gonna be really eye opening for me too when I got it. What happened to your YouTube content? Because you haven't posted in four months.
SPEAKER_01It stopped I did I did I posted on December what's in four months 26th I think with like a kind of year in review and year future. So the whole point of YouTube for me was what I say in the beginning of every single one which is like talent opportunities network. Yes and talent literally meant so we could hire for the businesses andor any other future venture thing which does work like just purely through the reach but like it almost works like not the person is a like a follow in the in the following or whatever. It's more so it's like oh they know someone so like when I started doing that I went 35 days and had like 300 subscribers. And I had gone 35 days in a row.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And like I was getting like a couple hundred random views and all this but like I had Brooke Hitting had seen my videos and is in my and like we're DMing yeah Tan like it was people doing one two five million a month that are just seeing my crazy little niche things. Yeah but like I'm like I seriously had like a couple hundred followers. Right right and I would always tell everyone to DM me on Instagram and I like did I had an X account where that was my name but it was just like empty and it was just sitting there I like tried to do some and to zoom back even further on this and then I'll promise I'll get to your why did I stop but I have followed Iman I followed you Iman and a couple others in similar caliber for no joke probably eight years like 10 years like I've watched everything you've ever put out. Yeah I've watched everything Iman ever put out like I knew who all of you guys were and like watched all your stuff without knowing any of you obviously and when it was time I was like I need to do this in some capacity because I saw Iman talking about like XYZ and I was like I'm gonna pay Iman I'm just gonna do that so I paid him like 18 grand and you can onboard and call at this thing he could only do it at this time or it was going to be in two weeks I'm like I'm gonna do this now. Took a call at three in the morning 'cause it was Dubai time for like him. So three o'clock Eastern. Woke up at like 2 30, made a pot of coffee, like sat down, had my hour with Ima. Never met him before, never talked to him. And he's like, oh, this and this and this, and am I an advocate of what like all these things. And it all basically just came down to like long form organic YouTube niche pocket. Do it on X as well. Just worry about those two. The other one's kind of like social cloud flame, like Instagram, and you can get a couple thousand followers on both and then basically just make a couple million bucks doing like consulting deals. It was like essentially the framework and I was like alright cool. And he's like do these content in this way. And I went through his whole thing and it was like high production and this and that and he's it's it's so in-depth and he's got like his content guy and they teach all this stuff inside that 18k program. And I'm like I'm not fucking there's no way I'm doing this. There's no way I'm doing this. And so I just started I was like I'm just going to fill like a little bank of them and do a video a day because I have all these ideas right now of what I could talk about and then I'll go into that. And so I just was like a loom video a loom video. And all these guys started reaching out and we're like oh get the get screen studio instead of Loom. It makes it look better for this and like oh get this mic and just put it on your desk and it's like 300 bucks whatever just do it one time. And so I started doing those. So I then did that for 35 days. And like again a couple core people are reaching out and a lot of people are DMing. And when I say a lot it's like a hundred to two hundred of my 300 people are like in my DMs on Instagram and I'm answering everything. People like oh do you charge for this or oh my god how are you not more like whatever. Yeah. And this kid kept going back and forth with me. So I'm on day 35. I'm literally I literally sent a text that morning that was like I'm going to stop doing this. Like almost embarrassing it's like kind of embarrassing like that I'm doing this and nobody on my team no one at all. And uh I'm on a golf course it was the first time I left the house and I went golfing with my buddies and I like refreshed my Google Studio or my YouTube studio thing and it was like this on the views and I was like oh I finally hit like an outlier because they that's what they talk about. It was like how do you do this perfect video that gets picked up by the outlier. And I go on Instagram and one of the kids that I was DMing back and forth with and I call him a kid he's like because he's like 21 or something and he's like I'm about to put you on bro and I had been going back and forth with him and like chatting and like and trying to help or do whatever and uh he posted a screenshot of my here are the three offers that we use to do to get to 30 million a year or whatever. Right. And he posted on an X and it went like nuclear in like money Twitter land. Yeah. I didn't even have Twitter on my phone download it. I have like 1500 2000 follower I have like it's a dead account I'm like trying to put my like YouTube link in the bio and like trying to update it on the ball I'm like I'm not playing these couple holes and I'm like fixing everything up and in three days or something like that I went from 300 and like 100 to 3000 on both. And had 3000 then subscribers that was like this little honey pot and I just was like boom I'm in like so then I went another 30 days of doing just like me videos and then I felt like I like knew a lot of people now are getting connected. So I did an Eddie Maloof interview popped off highest video I was like oh I'm gonna do this. So now I had access to everyone made a dream 100 and was like I want coal and I want Ima and I want this and I and then I went through the interview circuit with random ones when I couldn't get somebody on for a day. I would literally be like are you free today at two? And they were like yeah I'm like cool. Alright so like that's my video for the day. And then if not it was 5 a.m and I'm making a video on some random topic of like what's happening now.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that was it for four months. And I tried to stop at a hundred and I up and went to 101 and I was like shit. I was going to stop at 90 and then I was supposed to stop at 100 and I was on a and I messed it up so I was like I can't stop at like 102. So I was like what's the next logical number it's like four months straight 120. So I went to 120 and then I stopped and I was I need some oxygen. And then that's when the event circuit thing started so then you invited me Jeremy invited me email like all these guys like invited me to this their events and I was like okay now I'm gonna take it to in real life and I'm gonna go meet everybody or like all the cool people. So then I did that and then that was cool but then I wasn't doing videos at that time and then frankly I just like got out of it like I then everyone the team knew like it became like this whole thing and then I had access to everyone I had 10k like it just kind of drifted to 10k 12k 50 whatever it is on on both and I was like okay like I I did what I wanted to do. Like I found my little niche pocket of people I got a talent the thing with talent is we're kind of getting away from internet marketing broy and it's very internet marketing broy like the talent pool that I get so like it's very difficult like I said for like a sales director for example I can't hire like one of these a lot of a lot of like the really good sales directors in our world because like it is not a match with culture and with target it just doesn't really work. There are people for sure but like so talent pretty good I could definitely make a post and get a lot of like creative strategist I post and it's like boom 200 new job like cool um opportunities I denied everything which is another very I don't know I still I'm not I'm not solid on if I should have or could have like I definitely could have I should if I should have but I got like equity offers and and Rev share offers and like and and I'll pay 50k for a day and like all these things in my DMs and I just said no to everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I need to do a tweet one time that's like if I've ever denied your money in DM screenshot it and reply to this post and like it had it has to be hundreds. Yeah where I've been like no like paid console this this this so I've said no to everything which like literally left hot like high hundreds on the table for sure easily and then uh so opportunities was kind of like okay oops and I could and there were some that I should have done like advisory shares and I probably could still but like I should have done something and then uh network to that just meant like friends. Like I had no friend like I I have like my core like 15 year buddies that are like my five dudes that we've been you know close forever that are like my hometown friends but like I had nobody in the industry that I was like friends with or like I can't I can't talk to anybody about anything other than Luke right who was like other co-founder and we would always you know we're in the business but I had nobody outside of that right except everything I consumed which was like all of your guys' stuff 10 hours a day or more on one screen on YouTube videos of what everyone's talking about and what's hot now and then I'm doing the actual building over here. Yeah yeah yeah for years right so it worked and then I just kind of was like all right I'm good now and my new thought on it and plan was like I want to do weeklies like almost like journal style like what's happening now like what's working now what's not working I don't want to do dailies I think that's I think that's smart and then I was like oh I'm gonna do it and then I went to make a video and I made and I was like 20 minutes in and I was like what am I talking about? And then I was like out of practice and I was like alright I'm just gonna scrap this one and then I haven't done it. So I I made like a whole mirror board and I was like alright so this is what we're working on now this is the focus and then I scrapped it and then I went and did uh uh one with Jeremy a week ago um kind of similar style to this but it's like two hours and it needs to be like clipped and edited and I like don't have an editor because I just do everything raw.
SPEAKER_04Yeah yeah and like I don't use my team for it. Maintenance dude you could do an end of month recap what I've learned every single time and then do one podcast. Yeah yeah yeah you could just do that and be fine.
SPEAKER_01So that's kind of like the the arc right now and then a couple more events I'm coming to your event uh with Sam you know we're gonna get two queens uh it Sam Sutter good guy yeah good dude and I have to fly from there I can only be there till the twenty seventh because I'm gonna go to Emanz uh in Dubai and it's like a what's that like Eamon's events? Yeah so if I had rank events I I can't accurately do it in like order but I can so first off the audience and the who are like the the buyer the members I guess essentially um between like you because I look at it as you Jeremy um yeah so you Jeremy Haynes Iman and Nick kind of has his thing those are kind of like the core of like the top of sphere masterminds for our our space.
SPEAKER_04Yeah um and I think I would imagine they're just different for different things. Different because I'm different I'm sure they're all good.
SPEAKER_01Different for different things different people in the room and yeah really different for different things like it would be beneficial to be in all of them and there's like probably 50% of it that's like kind of the similar ish but like each one has their niche. So like I view yours as like obviously there's the sales function but it's like I tried to say this to you before but it's like it's like almost like uh it's it's closer to like SMB or like real real business but still online like like not just internet marketing broy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We'll have like IT companies agencies um just it can be all over the map like sometimes like a solar company but it's mostly coaches agencies consultants etc but it's all business owners not necessarily like DR experts or or probably different from Iman like it's not influencers it's people who mainly have like a sales team and they run a house.
SPEAKER_01Yeah so yours for that in community in like the the the type the membership and then the event actual type yours is extremely high caliber which in like so in each one does it different. So yours are like these cool locations last one I went to and I think it was a new structure but it was like half of the day is like content or like speakers and the other half of the day is like networking with people or going to do the thing and it's multi-day across and I was like oh that's a cool yeah and this one will be so much better because it's in Scott's Dale it's like okay what are we to do like you know get in a bowl like a a mechanical bowl or something. Whereas this one there's like snowboarding the speakeasy thing and then able to go around spend time here. Like it worked out well for me because I have people here so I could go do that. The uh Iman is next uh his is like profitability the events he talked he does like a full day breaking down the last event like at each one so like his big launch his big B2C launch he then reveals literally everything like cost per this every like down here how we did this how we and then Jason generally comes as well and Jason was at the last one and briefs like exactly how they did like the entire kind of offer and like the whole pitch and that which is super valuable and cool. And then he does them at like continue on the member it's it's international it's very profit driven it's personal brand driven it's like that focused um and then the experienced truly experienced he does them in crazy places like I just went to that was when I was in Cape Town. That's the first time I went to Cape Town cool he did it there the first one the other one was in London never been to London he rents out the entire space so he gets like the whole hotel.
SPEAKER_04Yeah yeah yeah um which is cool because then it's like just you guys that's a big I will say that's what we're shifting towards as well yeah because it it's so much better community so much and it's like the antithesis of that is doing it in let's say like Vegas where everybody's incentivized to go outside of the hotel and there's all these other people at the hotel.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And it's just way better if you have some somewhere where everybody's gonna stay there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah 100% and so then the next one is for straight from your event because it's on March 1st I think um it's in like the desert in Dubai like in this crazy they're at like boutique hotels basically oh so yeah it's super cool. So um that's his um again super high caliber cool people in the room everyone's all you know very similar type of people and again very international which is a big difference than kind of these ones. Right. And then the Jeremy one is just hilarious. So like cost wise first across this I think Iman's is probably 60 maybe a year now because it's like it's in six month chunks and like he comes to an event plus the mastermind. Yours is in like high yeah high end of there like close um and then Jeremy's has changed now it's like a hundred and something because it's 10k a month um but forever it was like it was one two three four five six and then for a long time it was around that same range. But Jeremy's is like growth operators it's the spenders it's like very pay to ad focused land but it also it forever I feel like was a lot of uh VSL funnels because I was like but they shift on like what's hot now or what's working well. So like there's a lot of webinar guys there was a lot of there was actually a couple organic guys that went heavy but his is like growth op and this and the spenders and the scalers and it's like those type of dudes his whole mentality is like this whole like get richer and like he he embodies that and he has shifted now to it used to be at he had he had this penthouse before and uh in the middle of the building it was like an event center kind of thing. So you could do the event there on one day and it's all speakers on one day and then day two is just networking. So like everyone just comes to the same space but it was at his penthouse. So you go and you just post up there and it's all these dudes all just in his house for the entire second day. Now he got a he got a space and it's sick. That's it's so cool. It's like this like office thing it has like this event center room he's got like games all over everything like it's super cool and it's that same structure. So it's like day one all speakers and then day two that they do the cool stuff with the celebrations which is very cool there. They do like million dollar months is his thing. So the trophies so there's nine of them at the last one which is the most ever and then each one of those people go uh is one of these start doing that because we have like so many yeah you know yeah he's got a good group together and we were talking I think he said it on one of his things so I'm not like dox anything but like when he made the shift to like it's just it's a pretty serious shift to be like oh no this is like 10 a month. Like you have to be a pretty like developed or like very serious about this situation to be like oh I'm gonna sign up for 10 a month every month oh yeah for the for his thing and it's quarterly events. But the last couple people that have come in have all been um one was like 60 one was like 120 and one was like 300 million a year. And like these guys are trying to like either get into like they they clearly have a well done business and they either are interested in the direct response part they're interested in the personal brand part they're interested in the room and like who else they can meet um but he's curated a cool crowd um through because his his arc was like very it was cool. Yeah yeah yeah but yeah I I view them all kind of like they are just very different.
SPEAKER_04I'm trying to think what else I went to through that I went to an affiliate one that was super cool like a lead gen affiliate that are just outside of like I want to go to I need to go to a recruiting event. Yeah and just network with all these corporate people. Yeah see what that's all about. Yeah private I've been trying to go to a private equity event I bought a ticket it's supposed to be at this amazing private equity super high level event they have their event every single time at the time that I have my event three times in a row every single time and it's just I I book mine before they release their date.
SPEAKER_01So the next one I want to go to is uh Dom E.
SPEAKER_04Kavone guy if you follow him yeah yeah yeah I I I don't watch his content but I watch all of it I've seen it well it's hard for me to watch because it's like day in the life I think so I'm kind of that's too inefficient for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I'm telling you double screen I throw something on there when I'm doing like stupid stuff like I and I just like hear it going it's it's solid and it's also like within health infinite so it's like it's like more in my best stuff info diet for you right now. So to close that with him he has one now that he launched that's info coaching.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01And the last two have been when I've had other events and couldn't go. Sure. And the next one I have my first uh event that I'm doing oh well through and with WAP for like the hot like that whole thing. Right. And the we are going to move the date now and we haven't announced it and we're like very set on a date and we're like oh let's give it more time for this and this and better weather in New York and all that stuff. So we're moving it so I'm like oh I get to go to that finally. Nice. So I'm hopeful to go to that. But InfoDiet right now is I've always watched like a lot of hor I feel like the hormosy stuff right now is I don't know where are the live streams are they inside the I think you gotta catch them and then you gotta go to live.
SPEAKER_04Yeah because and then they they splice it and put it back as well yeah so I don't like the splices.
SPEAKER_01So like I like the I I want to watch them and I like to consume that and like I I would the Dave Ramsey style the Cardone style now he's doing it like I wish I could do that which is not efficient for me nor do I have anywhere to send anyone but like that would be my dream format as a person. Oh my god. Yeah if I could just go for Dave.
SPEAKER_04It's hard to get the views though. It's very hard for that's what I mean it depends though like if you think about it like PBD does it but it's a political podcast so totally different niche. And and weirdly you want to hear something interesting so what Patrick David did I don't know if he looked at the comedians but the comedians essentially what happened was is they realized if they talked about current events in politics they could sell out their shows like crazy because obviously if you go off current events in politics and you do comedy around it you're going to get way more views. Yeah. Right? And so a lot of times they actually that's where a lot of them have drifted and then they just sell out crazy amounts of shows. He's the only guy that did that with business. And I do wonder if he looked it's like offer job first if he looked at um you know the comedians and modeled that I think it was also he was just interested in that and that's what he does. But he does the live streams I mean Dave Ramsey does that's a little I mean he's been doing it so long. He's a joke and then I don't know if there's any other like business I mean hormosey I guess but he already had a huge audience.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if there's any other business streamers that really crush it here's another example I I would have to I wish there was a way uh maybe I have a screenshot somewhere but I seriously I watched Hormosy at like a couple thousand followers on on YouTube.
SPEAKER_04Yeah like I had I had bought like gym launch I was like we were in that space I read gym launch secrets yeah that's what I'm saying but what happened was is I had a client who was an agency and they were like dude we bought gym launch read gym launch secrets listen to the podcast and I'm like well dude it's gym's and they're like dude it doesn't matter like this guy's the best and I was like even though it's for gyms he's like it's it's just the best for everything. And I was like oh okay I listened to like two and I was like oh yeah this guy's the best and just binged all of his stuff and then this is how much of a gritty like obsessed information person I am that same person and another client both agencies. This is when he was launching Allen uh so he was working with agencies more and they were like yeah we did a one-on-one 50k consulting with them and I was like dude what what's it gonna take for me to get the recording of that because like you know he didn't have like a lot of business it was still mainly gyms yeah I was like what's it gonna take for me to get the recording of that and I I bartered sales reps away to get those recordings. I just gave him free sales reps and then in exchange I got two different four hour and they were what was so cool about that is that I learned so much like those videos were insanely insightful at the time because like I learned all of like a lot of his core frameworks before even the books or like his main YouTube content came out which was uh super helpful yeah for my vision I just remember where I lived at the time which had it was probably 2021 because I I bought the book it was the same place I took our one million yeah I bought the uh I have a picture uh next to we just got the ClickFunnels one million or the the one comic club or whatever two comic club um but yeah he uh I so to go to his content now um the live stream stuff I think I would like the most I see the clips I don't like the short form like random bit size stuff like uh how they do like super small cuts of it yeah like that has like taken over a lot of like the subscription feed on you so it like I don't like those and I try and like avoid those because I want the longer form stuff.
SPEAKER_01I like yours um his when it's like an actual topic based which generally is better actually on podcasts I've found now because I don't see them as frequent on YouTube when I go to find them. His because he has great podcasts that are like the 30 minute video that I feel like I don't see the video that matches that anymore which is interesting and I don't know if that's algo or different cuts or what um but I I've watched everything he does. I think it's been a pivotal part of like how I think of business overall the system and like everything I talk about with like oh like growth levers and bottlenecks like that is an assimilation right of like how I've consumed from that. One of your videos the where I really like started taking more of your like B2B or like your like macro video where you're like here's how I basically like how I shifted that one was really good for me to see when you're like multiport co and here's how we're shifting it must shut it down yeah that was a good video.
SPEAKER_04That was a good one the one where you talked about um okay but I get so you watch some of mine you watch some of her mose but what's the other give me the other info info guy sources? Info diet just it could be anything I'm pretty bad right now. There's my first million I'll give you mine.
SPEAKER_01My first million founders founders founders hormose I'm trying to think like outside of our zone I'm so in our zone it's crazy. I have some direct response ones that I like go hard on who it's like I I have like OG things that I've uploaded into AI that I like personalize now for like now like Agora Big Black Bo like I do those because I try and do that and then because all the stuff with WAP I like see who's doing it now kind of and like hear about who's doing it now.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Um not in like oh what's their actual but like I hear the names and then I go in like these rabbit holes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah I'll give you so Founders podcast acquire podcast yeah is really good. You don't like it? I don't love the format. I think you gotta listen to the right episodes like listen to the one on meta and then tell me you don't like it. Okay. Okay. Because I did listen to I did try it and I I don't know why I didn't get into it and then I listened to the meta one I was like fuck this is really good. And then after I mean I think if you just pick and choose like you might not care about uh Coca-Cola they just did one on that but the meta one is really good and I'm sure the Google one is really good too but that's the next one I'm doing. The other thing and I got this inspired from the founders podcast. So I mean I do all the same stuff. Like I I'm looking at Hermosy Jeremy Haynes you know I'll watch your videos I'll watch anybody Daniel Isles I'll watch um Isles is a yeah I don't watch like everybody's videos but if it's something like um I kind of just scan it to see like is there's going to be something I can pick up here and then I will watch it. So I try to pick up things from the info industry. YouTube it's kind of tough right I think books wise the best books and I would recommend this for you too is books on management, leadership etc because a lot of times when you read the sales and marketing books they don't really transfer to our industry that well but management almost everything transfers so you know you got the high output management uh out uh outsiders which is all those capital allocators that are really good that's a good one uh you know you got good to great all the Jim Collins ones but just the management books are really good and then inspired from founders I started reading a lot of biographies and I will say I do not know why I did not do that sooner for two reasons. Number one book wise because it's a narrative and a story and if you read the right ones you will consume so much more information and you retain all everything you learn you'll retain way better because it's like story based yeah and the other thing is is like the ideas you can get from it are really good Like I read Jensen Huang's NVIDIA Way. It's not his book, but it's a book about NVIDIA. And there's just like so much shit. Like just how they essentially like, I don't know if you know this, but NVIDIA actually created the category name of GPUs. No, I did not. So they own the category of, you know, it's just a typical category creation thing. But they crazy lessons behind that. There's also just how he manages his people. He tortures them into greatness. So there's a whole frame around that. Like he's so freaking intense and just calls people out. It's all all the criticism is public. So he believes that if you get criticism one-on-one, you're just wasting a learning opportunity for everybody else. But that has to be imbued into your culture. He also has 60 direct reports, which really made me rethink okay, that's the most valuable company in the world. Um I've always had this 8 to 12 direct report rule. Um am I gonna go to 60? No. But is there ways I can break that in certain departments or for certain things? And is there way ways I can create more leverage? So that's like, and you can get and I can retain those ideas so much better because I hear the stories and the narratives around it, and also just for like an inspirational and mindset type of stuff, it it's the best. Yeah. Like it helps so much. And then I divide I've I've I've trended, you'll find this funny, into political biographies and like uh basically just like general American history, which I would not say that has like a direct business impact, but I'm just like super interested in it. And there is like, I mean, do you think it's like Sam Parr always says, right?
SPEAKER_01Like he's super into that stuff.
SPEAKER_04To be, I know, I I actually want to have a podcast with him just to talk about that stuff because I read there's a four five book series on Linda B. Johnson, so combined, it's probably five thousand pages. I read the entire thing in a month. And dude, it's phenomenal. It's one of the I mean, it's just some of the best books ever written. But also, there is lessons you can take from him in terms of stuff that will apply to business because that guy grew up in the hill country of Texas, like as poor as you can go, and basically rose to the most powerful person in the world, which is some is a pretty crazy story.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's the when you're saying the reporting piece, the I was talking to Cam, co-founder of WAP, and he was like, Yeah, like who reports to you? And I already sent me something, he's like, Who it was about reporting structure, and it's like, who reports to you? And I'm like, Oh, this, this, this. And he's like, Like, what reports do they send you? I was like, What do you mean? Nothing, like, no, like nothing like there. And he's like, No, no, no, like the whole that's the whole point, is like they're reporting up to you, like you're not going in and like into each section to get it, like they're reporting up to you. And he's like, super simple concept, but like why aren't they sending you reports? And like, you think about it, you're like, Oh, my sales ended days, or my this or this, and I was like, that's so funny, like a leadership standpoint. It's like, where do you have visibility or where are they like uh rising through the information? But I um the more meta thing here is you're saying about reading. I have like you look at my setup and it's like all books around. Those books are from 15 years old to 25, probably when I did the Puerto Rico stint, and I stopped buying physical books because I had moved so many times it was like miserable. Yeah, the hardest part of moving is to like prove all to move all the books. And then I moved into iPad and like did a little bit there, and then my life was just like nope, and then it went all digital, like not even like reading, like just digital like consumption through audio or through this or this. And when I live in Puerto Rico, it would be three or five mile walks a day, and I would just listen to Audible. That's when I went backwards on my first million because they weren't releasing enough, and that's when I literally listened to every My First Million back to one because I like they weren't producing them fast enough or how quick I was consuming them. Um and I just got out of it. And I literally haven't read a physical book in a very, very long time. I grabbed like three of them.
SPEAKER_04Or start with the Jensen Huang one or the Steve Jobs biography. Yeah. Because it'll get you way back into it. Yeah, it's there's so much better to read. Of course, I grabbed like traction, EOS. So what I do is I'll read each morning like 40 minutes out of a biography, and then I'll just throw in a quick 10 to 15 minutes on a business book. Because I will admit, even though those business books might be more helpful, dude, they're like kind of boring. Kind of what I hate is shifting through a bunch of shit that I already fucking know or I'm not gonna use, yeah, just to find like the one or two tactics. Whereas like if you're reading one big story, it's just generally there could be chapters that are there could be chapters that you don't care about. But like generally it is interesting all the way through.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So do you talk about your like I was so f I didn't know that about you. Uh and I feel like I had consumed a lot of content, and I didn't realize we were at the last event you had here in Arizona. We had it's it's time for the dinner on whatever that was, probably like night one, night two. Yeah. And you know, we're talking real quick, and you're like, Yeah, yeah, just saying saying uh goodbye. I'm like, what? And it's like eight o'clock. Oh, yeah, I guess early. And everyone is like just now starting, and like drinks are starting to flow, and this, and like I'm not really into the night culture and stuff anymore either, but like eight o'clock, I was like, okay, like everyone's just like getting food, and you were done. And you were and you were and leaving, and you gave me the brief on that. And I found that so interesting, and clearly I didn't embody it enough, but like my mornings are if I have my my like dream setup is four, like when I wake up for the first time, which is like three, four, five, right? I'm like jazzed about something, I get up and like I have all those hours where it's just me, and then stuff starts at like eight, nine where people start to like message, and that is when I've built anything, that is when I've like felt the best of my life, and you do something similar, but you like have like a read a reading regimen.
SPEAKER_04And it's when I get tired. Um sometimes I mean, yeah, if I stay up longer. I don't I think that day you're talking about, I mean, I had to wake up the next day. So if if it was the last day of the event, I'll kind of like I know, but if it's the last day of the event, I'll stay up a little later, you know. But other than that, I'm going to bed at eight, eight thirty is like pushing it. And then I wake up at four thirty, and then so what I do is my first call is not gonna be till eight. Tops. Sometimes eight thirty, sometimes nine. And so I'll get my workout in, but like I wake up just through You work out in the morning? Yeah. And then I just um I read for almost like usually 90 minutes every single morning. That's great. Uh but it's a nice thing because when you wake up, you're kind of too tired sometimes to do anything, so it's a nice way to just kind of like wake up slowly. Yeah, you need those, you need those. And also if I do it in the morning, I won't do it. And so, but what I do is so like yes, from 4 30 till whenever I have to go work out, I'll just read. Now, the thing is though, is what I do is if I'm behind on stuff, I can just axe that entire morning and just work. Yeah. So there's some days, there's one day this week because I was a little bit behind where legitimately from I I might have read for like a half hour, but then from five or five fifteen to I don't know, whenever it was like eight, I just worked the entire time. And I can even push my workout into the afternoon. It just depends on my day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So like if I'm like, I really gotta get some shit done, I'll just maybe skip my workout that day, or I'll push it to the afternoon and I'll just take three hours in the morning, which is you know is almost like five and a half hours of normal in the daytime because nobody's up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, that's I just don't have the like at your event, I was I left one of the mornings at two something, I left at like one something. Yeah, it's a lot of things.
SPEAKER_04And then with this time zone, I was having like people just go crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it wasn't even like party mode, it was like people were just like talking and cigar some people, but like people are or drinking, yeah. We were like sitting out by a fire and just yapping and cigars and doing our thing, but then I have, you know, with the time zone, I was having meetings at like five in the morning. Like I looked at my aura, I slept like eight hours for the entirety of the event. Like uh like it was it was hilarious. Um I can't function like that. Yeah, that has to compound so well. The mornings like that, the timeline.
SPEAKER_04And I will say, if I had been doing this routine and just reading in the morning for the last ten years, I mean, the amount of stuff I would have read and how that knowledge would have compounded, just about anything, even the political political history stuff I like. Uh I'm super into economics and like right now it's just so nerdy, but I'm literally reading a book about just the history of capitalism. And this book, I was joking with my fiance this morning. I literally have to I'll there's times where I'll read a paragraph and it's so fucking dense. I'll have to chat GPT what the fuck I just read for like 20 minutes. And but it's I mean it it's like I'm reading about like the Mercant uh mercantilism age, so like in the 1600s, and you know, all the policy that affected kind of the trade and what capitalism was like back then, and then it moves into different eras. I just like that stuff. Like I read a whole book on Austrian economics. I just think that stuff's interesting. Yeah, so I probably should read more. I'm trying to shift it a little. Okay, I gotta get to like all the business biographies and and double down on that, but I'm also just kind of following my interest a little bit. But imagine if I had been doing that for 10 years, all the stuff I would know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's uh pretty crazy. Yeah. I yeah, I don't know. My thing is I just don't even like I have to have something exciting I want to do. The whole like plan your tomorrow tomorrow today and like Ridge and all that, like that was probably the most I was like dialed in was that era of time where it was like, oh, I know exactly what's happening. Like I open my eyes and I'm like, oh I know what exactly what I'm supposed to be doing at 5.15. And like, granted, it was not sitting there and reading for an hour and a half and probably compounding the right way. It was like, oh cool, pot of coffee, and like hit it. But I would go from three, four, five in the morning until those eight, nines, and then I work out middle of the afternoon because it's like if not, I'll fall asleep, and it's like my re my re-up and then back into it. But it's been it's been intense. I've done the 16, 18 hour, no joke, actual like at the desk. And we all know that's not the most productive land ever, ever, but like it's just pure activity, and there's a lot of stuff that does come good in there, but it's probably a lot of waste. But I've done that, I've been doing that basically since I did the YouTube video stuff. Nice. And no, not nice. Like it's not it's not working at this point. Like it's just not like I need to zoom out and like work on the machine, not like work in it. It's very clearly uh activity did not equal output.