85 Minutes of Sales Training That Will Make You Rich

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Basically, this presentation is ten different things in terms of sales and sales teams that I've noticed, you know, some of it with my team in the past six months, but also just with a lot of y'all's teams, that it's just really common mistakes. So it's a little bit of a buffet. There's not like a like sales is the theme of the presentation, but we're gonna be going a little bit all over the place. Now, the other thing I want to cover is I rehearsed this yesterday, and it was two hours and 15 minutes. So I was either like, okay, I gotta parse this thing way down, but what I decided to do is we're just gonna do part one today and then part two to tomorrow morning. So you're gonna have two presentations for me, uh this event instead of one. So hopefully that's cool with you guys. And what's funny is the first part out of the 10 things is 45 minutes. So I just got a little carried away, but I like it, and it's kind of the main thing. So I was like, well, I'm just it's my event, so fuck it, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna do two. So the main thing we're gonna talk about today, at least, this is part one of ten, but this is basically it today, is closing. And what I want to say is, you know, for most of you guys, you know, you're not the one closing on the phone, obviously, with your team. You have a sales team. But this is something that really what I want you to do is write out, write down your takeaways. We'll get you the recording of this presentation next week and the week after, have your sales teams go through this and start implementing this. Because this will make you more money for sure. And a lot of the stuff we're gonna cover, I guarantee your sales teams aren't doing it. Like I guarantee, I mean, my team even F some of this stuff up, so I guarantee there's people in here that's gonna be a massive, massive value. So I said in uh two presentations ago, which if you're at the VIP session, I kept going like you need to watch the presentation two presentations ago. Going from a bad sales team to a good sales team is really just knocking down the fundamentals. So just having a validated system, right? A validated system to turn interest into conversions. So that's having a good offer that's validated, you validated yourself, having good lead quality and the right lead volume. It's also nailing discovery, okay? And having a, you know, really it's just having a good sales process, which means nailing discovery, so getting an accurate diagnosis of where they are now to where they want to be. And also, you know, I talk about the seven beliefs in the training, pain, dial, cost, desire, money, support, trust. So it's nailing those things as well. Then the next thing is really nailing the pitch. Now, you would think this would be easy. I mean, the salespeople say the same thing on the call every single time, but when I review calls, you would be so surprised um how often, and the first thing I have there is clarity and certainty. The first part of that is how often salespeople explain stuff, and it just doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's like the prospects just aren't getting it. And the salespeople think that they're getting it, but they're just not getting it. And when I, like when I'm on a sales call, this is sound a little woo-woo, but I just really rest all of my attention, it's kind of like meditation, I rest all of my attention on this person and what like not only the words that they're saying, but their body language and even their emotions, and kind of like I'm always trying to I'm always trying to ask myself the question, like, are they like in sync with me right now? Like, are they like getting this? And can they visualize this in their mind? So many times, salespeople, it's like they will explain what you do or pitch the service, and the prospect's not gonna be like, hey, that made no fucking sense. You know, they're not gonna say that, but they'll be like, yeah, that made sense. And there's just no clarity on what this is. If they're confused, they can't buy. I mean, this is basics, like fundamentals 101, but uh, even with my team, I have to coach them on this. Is like, and I think 50% of sales, a lot of times, and we're gonna talk about this as a big theme today, is just clear and honest communication. I know that sounds so basic, but it just doesn't exist, or it exists very rarely. And then I put clarity and certainty. So the certainty part is really your pitch needs to be the simultaneous explanation of why everything they tried in the past has failed and why this is going to be different. Okay, so a good example of this is you guys know Russell Brunson, right? This is not as much the case now. But when he really exploded, so like what was that, like 2012 to 16-ish era, uh, the standard of how you would get conversions is you would either have a WordPress site or you would build like a custom coded funnel and it was like only for people who are super advanced in marketing and stuff. So click funnels really became the simultaneous explanation of why the status quo, which at the time was like websites, were really just a business card, and why this is going to be the new and different and unique, superior way to get traffic and ultimately get conversions, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Right? If you take the ketogenic diet, let's say you're helping people lose weight, and your methodology is like the ketogenic diet, it's an easy one. If you read a sales letter on the ketogenic diet, really it's the simultaneous explanation of number one, why you haven't been able to lose weight because of what they say is like insulin resistance, which is the problem-based mechanism, and why this is gonna be different by getting you in a state of ketosis, which is a more fat-burning state. Okay, now I don't think that's necessarily evidence-based, but that's how they sell it. Okay? So it has to be again, the simultane, like as they're going through your presentation of what you're selling, they should get insight on their current situation, why things haven't worked out for them, and why this is gonna be different. So you guys have here heard books like The Challenger Sale, Insight Selling, like there's a new book that like their big revelation is like give the prospect like an insight and some value on the call. It comes out like every single year. But this is really the through line, they're always, always talking about this. But this doesn't make sense. And so you I mean you need to build this into the pitch with your prospects. But the salespeople, a lot of it is tailoring, like you have to actually listen to what they've tried in the past and why it hasn't worked, and then as you're explaining what you do, be able to compare and contrast that. And we understand, you know, as people, we understand things through contrast so much better. Okay? So those are just the basics, all right? So getting a team from bad to good is really just all of those things. But good to great is really about closing more of the fringe deals. Now, two presentations, I talked about this, but the fringe deals, about so if you look at your sales pipeline, about 10 to 20 percent of your deals are laydowns. Okay, those are those are what your salespeople will say, like, we want more of these people. These are the good prospects, okay? But those are people it's like, I'm not hiring you to close those people like anybody could close those people. Okay? Now another 10 to 20 percent, they're all I would say like they're unclosable, right? And that might mean they can't close right now, they're just not a fit, uh, they physically literally have no money, whatever. Now, 60 to 80 percent, which is the vast majority of the pipeline, is what I call fringe deals. Now, these are people who that's a fancy name for people who can close, but they need the salesperson to be a salesperson to do it. It's going to take some salesmanship, and you need to build pride with your team that is this is what you were hired for, not to take the orders. You are hired to convert somebody who normally probably would not convert. But there's a possibility there, right? So these people might have some objections, they may have tough logistics, you might have to really tailor the solution and build a lot of certainty with them. I don't know. But they're fringe deals. They're deals that probably in your pipeline should be closing but are not closing. Does this make sense? Okay? And a lot of getting these deals comes down to the closing ability. So what I find is when I ramp closers, these basics, uh, and and our stuff is very difficult. Like, for instance, you could talk, if you're a salesperson for me, you could talk to um a tech company doing 15 million a month, and then the next conversation could be like a 10k a month coach, right? So it's like it there's a wide variance of who you need to talk to, you need to be very good. But in like 60 days, I can get them to the point where all of that stuff in the top is is down pat, like it's automatic. Okay? The big thing then I start focusing on with people is the closing, and that's what all of today is about. So, now with closing, the biggest mistake people make is there's just no process at the end of the call. So, what I mean by that is like with discovery, you have a very clear methodical process, right? That's why they don't mess it up. With the pitch, it's very clear and methodical. Okay? When it gets to the end, no process. Like we just throw shit out of the window. And a big issue with this is just anticipation and expectation. So uh when I was a salesperson, what would happen with me is I would get like, okay, I spent 50 minutes with this person, they gave me some really good vibes, and I'm like, as soon as I drop the price, I'm kind of on the edge of my seat to be like, they're gonna say yes. And then that first sign of resistance, I get emotionally triggered, my bandwidth closes, process just goes completely out the FN window. Okay, this is so common with closers, and why they just break down at the end of the call and do all this stupid stuff. So, what you need to train your sales team to do, and this is what I did for myself, is I train myself to really elongate, like if you think about the call, if this is the beginning and this is the price drop, I elongate my expectation of the call that I'm every single time gonna get one or two objections and then I'm going to close. So I expect them, I anticipate for them, and I prepare for them. So when they come, I'm not emotionally triggered. This is part of the process. I do this every single time. Okay? And essentially I'm ready to, you know, basically handle that. And what's funny is the more I prepare and anticipate for those, the less I even get them in the first place. Okay? Because you're building that consistency bias through asking usually the right questions in the beginning and the front end. But still, you have to have a process for that. So, with that being said, we're gonna go into some scripting here. So, just as a review with the call framework, you have your introduction, that's rapport, frame the call, what have you, very basic. Discovery, transition, that's just the basic phase where essentially you go from asking questions to really gradually pitching while getting the prospect to ask you to pitch them. You know, we're not gonna cover transition in this, but just as an aside, there's so you know, some closers, they'll just ask, they'll be in discovery, they're asking questions, and then with no transition or sort of setup language whatsoever, they're just now they're just pitching. And the prospect's like, okay, I guess is what we're doing now. And it just is very unclear, again, it's not clear communication. So that's why I broke this out into its own phase. Then you have the pitch, okay? We talked about that. What we're gonna talk about today is the committing phase and then the objections phase. Okay, the committing phase has three parts questions, small attempts, what's next? Objections has three parts price drop, pacing the first objection, and then you it's kind of cut off, but it says isolate and handle with logistics. So we'll cover what all that means in a little bit. So here's what the committing phase is looking like. Okay, so some of this is gonna seem pretty basic, and then I think you'll like it as we get into the objection stuff. So at this stage, I'm kind of dropping you in, right, right after the pitch. And if you go through the training, what I explained to do is kind of break it out into three to four pillars. So you've explained those. Right? So now we're here. So we're gonna do a quick recap. So that's basically it. You know, we have pillar one, pillar two, pillar three, pillar four. Ultimately, this is set up to get you to this outcome. So, what questions do you have about this specifically? Okay, the key word is what questions do you have about these four things specifically? I know this will sound, you know, again, very basic. If you say, what questions do you have, they're gonna be like, what's the price? All right? And that's fine, you know, it's not the end of the world, but four things you want to der with your language direct their attention to the process. Because we first want to make sure they're bought in on the process before we move into the pricing and really the closing type of stuff. Like if they don't believe in the idea and your thesis of getting them from current to desired situation, I don't care how good your objection handling is, it's not gonna work. It's just not. Okay? Now, they're gonna start asking asking uh questions. So here's the basic framework. You clarify the question before answering it, you answer it briefly, specifically in one, I like to answer it in one word, you know, but two sentences or less, and then you end with the phrase, great question, what else? What are the questions? And that keeps you in leadership of the call. So I'll give you an example. So you might say, What questions do you have about these four things specifically? They say, uh, you know, the main thing I'm wondering is, is this like group coaching? Okay? So I'm gonna say, instead of being like, yeah, oh yeah, you know, we do group coaching, then salesperson goes on a three-minute spiel about a bunch of nonsense that doesn't matter. Instead of that, you say, Gotcha, okay, well, there's elements of what we do, like let's say, for instance, in in this example, you know, you're like us. So there's elements that are group coaching and events and et cetera, but a lot of it is one-on-one account manager and a done-for-you service. So you might say, instead of just answering yes, you might say, Well, there's elements of what we do to where we get people together. But like, just so I know and can answer your question, right? Is there a specific reason why you're asking that question? Are you like, what are you kind of looking for? Right? So I asked the question behind the question. Now, what they might say, which is very common in this example, which is why I used it, is they're like, oh, you know, I spent 15K on this group coaching program, there were two calls a week, there was 150 people on each call, so I had to wait three hours to get my question answered, and like I just never want to do that again, it was a total scam. Okay? So now, if you would have just said, Oh yeah, we do group coaching, what happens is they're like, oh, well, this isn't for me. Now, as a salesperson, I have to backtrack all the way from that question. Does that make sense? Okay? Now, because I asked the question behind the question, I can just say, Oh no, well, we don't do that at all. Here's how it works. You work with your one-on-one account manager, a lot of it is in a done-for-you service, and then we do have certain topical group things, but we never have more than X amount of people on those calls, so you can get in and out in 20 minutes. Right? Then we can move on. So, what would have been a problem is now not a problem. Does this make sense? Okay? The nice thing about clarifying the question before you answer the question is it sets up the answer to be very short. So for us, a very common thing is people be like, So, how does like the setters thing work? Like, do they work for you? Do they work for us? Like, how do I pay them? Is it a 1099? Is it a W-2? And they'll they'll say all of that and they'll say it like that. Like they'll muddle, they'll just kind of like, bah, you know, like they just muddle all of this stuff together, and it's kind of like, what did you just say? You know, like I don't even know what you just said. So what I do is you just clarify the question. Okay, so if I'm understanding you correctly, your question is who do the setters work for? How do you contract them, and what does the compensation look like? And they're like, exactly. Then you're like, great, they work for you, 1099, here's the comp structure. You see how clean that is, right? What average salespeople, and I guarantee your salespeople do this. I just guarantee it, because I have to yell at my people to do this, is somebody asks that question, and it's just like the salesperson doesn't even understand what they said, and then just talks right past them, goes on a three-minute spiel that doesn't answer the effing question. And then what we do is we just build more and more confusion in the call. Does that make sense? Like this is very, very fun. Like I would consider this like sales 101. But it doesn't really happen that often, to be honest. So I just see this constantly when I review calls with folks. Okay? So you're to go through this framework. You end off with, what else? What are the questions? All right. This keeps you in leadership and uh in kind of control of the call still, so you can control the tempo of the call. All right. So I really like this. You could just say, uh, you could just end and be silent, but that kind of creates like this weird awkwardness. And then a lot of times then the prospect starts kind of taking control of the call because you're just being silent and passive. So I always like to end with great question, what else? What are the questions? Eventually you're gonna say, I have no questions. And then it's like, gotcha. So based on what we've been talking about, and based on um, you know, you telling me you want to get to 100 grand a month or whatever the outcome is, do you feel like this is what you've been looking for? Right? We do what's called a small temp. All right, what I used to do here is a hard temp check. We're gonna leave that for later and do that after price. I've kind of modified this a little bit. So when you do the small temp, basically, if you've been doing a decent job, 99% of the time, they're gonna say yes. If you really mess it up, they might give you some sort of weird hesitation response, or they're gonna, you know, god forbid, tell you no. At that stage, you've really effed it up. This shouldn't be that hard to get like a good yes to. But obviously, if you don't get a yes, you need to address it. So then we transition to the price, which is the what's what's next in that framework. So right now I've really built with the prospects that they don't have any questions, they feel like this is what they're looking for, so there's really kind of no reason not to move forward. So what I say is great. So no questions, you feel like this is what you need. What's next? Where do you want to go from here? Okay? So they answer, they don't answer. Usually they'll be like, Well, you tell me, I'll say, cool, you ready for next steps? The investment for just, you know, whatever is the price. And then you just you know, then you be silent. Now, what I don't recommend is the whole typical sales thing where it's like you just shut up and then it's like a fucking contest. It's just weird. Like, I just don't get that. I mean, you should pause, okay? But if like six or seven seconds goes by, I just like to throw out like what are your thoughts or how do you feel? You know, and that kind of passes the baton to them to start talking. Make sense so far. Good? All right. Now, we're gonna get into objections, you're gonna like this stuff. So, for simplicity, look, there's there's a bunch of different ways sales trainers categorize objections. I just try to make it as simple as possible. And so I categorize it into three things. Uncertainty is anything, there's uncertainty-based objections, okay? That's anything that's keeping them from being less than 100% certain that this is the right thing, now is the right time. I need to think about it, let's do this next quarter. I need to do some research, I need to read reviews, I need to talk to your clients, I need to look at case studies. All of that encapsulates uncertainty-based objections. Does that make sense? Okay? Now it'll make more sense as we get into the other ones. Support is basically they gotta check with somebody else. This could be up, down, or sideways, right? So it could be like a board, or if you're like sometimes we talk to the sales director, so it could be the CEO, it could be the partner or the spouse, or it could be their team. Like a lot of times, if you know, if I'm on a call, I'm not the one implementing it, so I need to check with my team to see if they have the bandwidth. A lot of people actually miss that one. So that's uh they gotta check with somebody else. Now, what's key here is this is not like a s what I how I define support objections is it is um it is hold on. So how I define that is it's not essentially a smoke screen. What it is is I a hundred percent wanna do this, but I just gotta check with somebody else. Okay? So it really at that point purely becomes a logistic. Does that make sense? I just want to make that clear. What a lot of closers will do is they will just chase this. So it's actually a smokescreen, then they start going through like all the spousal objection and all this stuff framework, and then you know, the person's not even sold. Cool? Financial is the same thing. This is literally, I cannot make this work. Right? It's not like, oh, you know, it's like kind of too much, like I don't I just don't know if this is worth it. That's uncertainty. Okay? This is literally, I cannot make this work. Like I a hundred percent want to do this. I physically either I need to move money around or I don't know how I'm gonna pay for this. Okay? This makes sense. So, uncertainty is true objections, support in financial is logistics. We have to handle the uncertainty first, okay? And then we can move on to the logistics. So, in other words, the most important question we want to address from the very, very beginning is do you believe this is 100% going to work and this is 100% what you want to do? And really it's eliciting this honest conversation after we get through price and their basic questions. Okay? So here's how this will make a lot more sense as we get into the scripting. So again, you say the investment for all these liberals is just the uh, you know, whatever the price point is. Now, two things are gonna happen here. Either number one, they'll start asking some questions and you can kind of go through the questions, etc. Number two is they'll actually give you an objection. Alright? So if they ask questions, you use the same framework as above until they start asking an objection, or eventually you do the temp check, right? Which you're gonna learn in about a second. Now, if they ask an objection, you go right for the temp check. So I'll give you an example, this will kind of like cement it in. All right. So the prospect says, well, this sounds great. Can you send this over to me so I can think about it and get back to you next week? You would say, no problem. Before we get into any of that, like, how do you feel? You mentioned you want to scale your business to 100 grand a month. Do you feel like this is a hundred percent what you need to be able to get there? So I want to break that down for a second. First, I say no problem, that's diffusing language. I always do that, you'll see it like a million times. And then, before we get into that, and then I do a hard temp, okay? And so I bring up the outcome. You know, you said you want to scale your business to 100 grand a month. This is the key phrase. Do you feel like this is a hundred percent what you need to be able to get there? Okay? Not, you know, you you you kind of feel like this is what you're looking for? You know, you you you know, before we get into that, you feeling pretty good? It ha it can't be soft, it can't be passive. It has to be very direct. Okay? Because you have to really what I'm going for here, and this is a little counter counterintuitive, I'm kind of going for like a no. I really want to suss out any uncertainty that they might be having on this call so I can address it, so we can have an honest conversation. Does that make sense? Right? It's very, very key. So I purposely use like the language 100%, right? Like very definitive language, and I and I'm very direct when I say it. No, I'm not like this like commandeering, like, you know, asshole on the call or anything. It's just very direct. Okay? So again, I put here, you want a definitive answer, you need to be very direct. And I like the phrase, I tell my closers this, you must command honesty. That's not coming from this, like, you know, I command honesty. You know, it's just you, it's it's more of like a genuine thing and a vibe that, hey, we're just not gonna like bullshit each other on this call. Okay? You know, there's all of this crazy, and I used to be certain uh super into this. I was talking to Matt yesterday, like uh, you know, NLP and like belief restructuring and like this, all this like fancy objective. You know, it's great to nerd out on stuff like that, and I'm not saying it doesn't work, but for most closers, it's just not attainable. And to really train a sales team at scale and getting to eight figures and multiple eight figures, it's just not a systematic thing that you can train. This is a systematic thing you could train, and I find if you just focus on this, it is like the 10% that drives 90% of the results. Okay? So again, what you want is a definitive answer from them. A definitive answer sounds like, oh no, dude, absolutely, like I 100% want to do this, I just need to, and then you kind of can now isolate the objection. We'll talk about that in a second. If you get wishy-washiness, which wishy-washiness is like, you know, I think so, or uh, you know, you get anything that's not that certainty, you need to double down. Okay, so got it, but what I'm really trying to understand is like, do you think this is 100% gonna work? And like, do you want to do this? Like, just sounding exactly like that. Okay, are you getting it? It's it's a lot of it is a tonality where people will screw it up, and they'll be like, yeah, I I did the tie-downs and it didn't work. And then I listen to it and it's like, they're like, Yeah, you know, you you're feeling like you kind of wanna maybe do it, and it's like, it's like, oh my gosh, you know, I'm just like, please. So, okay, no, now you do this. There's only two things that are gonna happen if it's done properly. They're gonna tell you a concern, aka, an objection, or they're gonna tell you they 100% wanna do it. Great. Okay. If they tell you an objection, and we'll we'll walk through this later, you isolate it, address it, and then retie down. It's like a loop, that's why it's called looping. Now, if they're 100% in and they want to do it, then you can just assume the close or handle the logistic. All right, so uh aside from talking about theory, I'm just gonna give you a bunch of examples. So you can screenshot these if you want to, we're just gonna walk through them. But I just feel like if I can give you a lot of examples, it'll you you'll internalize it a little bit better. Okay? So example number one. Well, this sounds great. Um, I need to think about it. So you can s can you send all uh me over all of this information in an email? Salesperson says, no problem. So just so I can be clear, how do you feel? Like in terms of getting your business to 100 grand a month, let's say that's their goal, do you feel like this is a hundred percent what you need to be able to get there and this is a hundred percent gonna work? And then they say, No, I do, like I really like this, I just don't make decisions on the first call. It's like kind of my my decision-making process type of thing. But no, no, I I really like this. So then here's how you isolate the sleep on it objection. You say, no issue at all, I'm totally good with you sleeping on it. And like honestly, based on your experience in the past, I would sleep on it too if I was you. So just to clarify, if we schedule a time tomorrow and you wake up feeling tomorrow the same exact way you feel right now, then what you're telling me is we're 100% processing the payment moving forward. Okay, and then they say yes, or now they'll tell you the real objection. Okay, so what I did here, again, first phrase, no issue at all. I'm 100%, I mean I'm totally good with you sleeping on it. I'm diffusing the it's diffusing language, I'm diffusing the pressure. Then I isolate it. Okay? And I do this in a way where if you notice, I precede already that we're gonna talk tomorrow, which is very key. I'll explain that in a second. So again, if we schedule a time tomorrow to talk tomorrow, and you wake up tomorrow feeling the same exact way you feel right now, then then strong definitive language. Then we're 100% processing the payment and moving forward. Okay? So what salespeople do that like Eric Spee is they'll be like, well, no problem. When do you want to talk next? And then guess what people say? Uh, you know, Friday, uh, same time next week. And now, and we all know that's not ideal, right? Like if this is especially like, you know, if this is not like a B2B, like longer conversation, longer sales cycle type thing, if you have like a B2C offer, you do not need to wait till the same time next week. You probably, if it's Monday, you don't need to wait till Friday. I could understand 48 to 72 hours, but like it don't need much longer than that. Okay, like you can decide. But what happens is when that becomes the initial suggestion on the call, because the salesperson just didn't even do their job and they just asked them. Now we have to like work back from same time next week up. Does that make sense? So what I do with this phrase is if we schedule a time to talk tomorrow and you wake up feeling the same way you feel right now, that phrase anchors, it precedes, we're gonna talk tomorrow. Now, if they can't talk tomorrow, now the endpoint is tomorrow, and we work that way. Do you see what I'm saying? It's it's kind of subtle, but this does make a difference because you wanna accelerate everything forward because there is desire fatigue. The longer it goes on, the less people want to do stuff. This makes sense. Cool? So, now what could happen here is like if you use that definitive language, which 100% processing the payment, that is pretty definitive. You know, unless they're just gonna lie to you, or you know, it can happen, they can change their mind, uh, or they don't wake up tomorrow feeling the same way, whatever. Um, you know, it's like if they unless they lie, they're they're telling the truth there. And most times they're gonna have that truthful conversation. So, and most in this case they say yes. So you either schedule the follow-up. With certain people, and you kind of have to be a little choosy here, if you feel like they're right there and you feel like they're gonna respond to this, sometimes you can say, look, like, why don't you come in now? Let's draw, you know, you told me you wanted all these things and you want to get away from you know your bad situation, etc. Let's draw the land in the sand and make a commitment today. And then if you wake up tomorrow feeling like, oh my gosh, this is the worst thing in the world, and at the bottom of the pit of my stomach, I know like I made a terrible decision, we'll just refund you. If you feel that can work if you feel like, you know, you'll you'll kind of know. I just sort of pick and choose that. If somebody's very sensitive and like you can just tell like they're asleep on it type of person, you just let them sleep on it. The key is let's talk tomorrow, or let's talk in 48 hours. And through this framework, I've rooted out that this is really what the thing is. This is not a smokescreen. Like they do 100% in this moment want to do it. Okay? So, example number two. It's gonna start the same, then gonna be a little bit different. Well, this sounds great. Um, I need to think about it, so you can send, can you send me over all this in an email? You say, again, no problem. So, just so I could be clear, like, how do you feel in terms of getting your business to 100 grand a month? Do you a hundred percent feel like this is what you want to do? They say, No, I definitely want to do this for me, it's just a matter of how I'm gonna come up with the money. Okay, now we know what the real objection is, but we make sure. So we say, Great, so what you're telling me is money aside, you're 100% in. So again, the theme, definitive language, okay? Uh, but I'm telling you, they don't do this. They say yes. So now we're actually when a we went from an uncertainty, we got that out of the way, now we're down to financial. All right? And it's a financial logistic. Remember, we were talking about that before, this is what I was trying to communicate. They do 100% want to do it. It really just is money standing in the way. So then you would say, so look, you know, most of our clients do it up front, but for certain clients, depending on the situation, we break it up. So are you open to having an honest conversation financially, getting everything onto the table, so we can see if there's a way we can make this work now, or at the very least, we can create a game plan together to make this work in the future? And they say sure. And then we go through what's called the open wallet. Right? So you guys might be familiar with this. We really push this. Is so you say, got it. So first, what's net incoming cash in the next 30 days? Right? So after, you know, based on what you have coming in, expenses, what's gonna be left in 30 days? That's kind of a th it does matter, but that's kind of a throwaway question I use on purpose, just to kind of diffuse a little bit of pressure and get them to answer a question. The next question is the real question, which is gotcha, and what's your cash on hand right now exactly? Now, oftentimes when you ask this, they're gonna be like, 500. That's not their cash on hand. They're telling you how much they can spend in this very moment, but that's not what's in their bank account. I want to know what's in their bank account. So I'll say, well, you know, I'm not asking what you could spend right now, and I don't even know if you can do this right now, but I'm asking what do you actually have access to? So what's in check-in? Now, if you're not weird about it, they're not gonna be weird about it. Remember, at this stage, they've told you three times they a hundred percent wanna do it.

unknown 30:08

Okay?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

So you're just helping them, you're just on their side. When people, and believe me, I've seen this work in almost any market, even with very sensitive prospects. Okay? So it works. But if you're weird about it, it's gonna be weird. Then I'll ask about credit. Now, I'll actually, we we do our presentations on a Google Doc. You guys will be familiar with this if you're here. So we do our presentations on a Google Doc, and I will write all of this out on the Google Doc. Okay? So it's it is like clear as day. Then what I do is, because this is a little um, you know, they kind of had to get a little vulnerable here. So I just want them to come a little bit closer before I do the close. So I'll say, and you really want to do this, right? And they'll be like, yeah, I really want to do it. Well, because good, because look, I don't think the best thing for you right now is to do this all up front, if it's gonna zero you out or if it's gonna, you know, be half of your net worth or what have you. I also don't think the best thing for you to do based on the conversation that we had is to do nothing. So what I'd be willing to do for you is if we split it into two to where you could do half now and half in 30 days, if I'm willing to do that for you, will you move forward right now? Okay? Very key language there. So, what closers do, which don't let them do, for the love of God, please. How about a toupee? You know? It's like, do not do that. When you what you're doing here is you are making a concession with terms in exchange for a decision. Does that make sense? Alright? It's not salesy whatsoever, it's just normal. And in fact, if you just say, oh no, no problem, we'll just break it into two, then breaking it into two has no value. I mean, sure, it's easier to do, but it has no effing value. You just kind of like gave it to them. You want to ask for something in return. So usually what happens, just so you know, the first time I will ask for a decision in return. If we have to go lower than that, like to a three-pay, we'll ask for a decision in return and a case study. Does that make sense? And it gives more value, like they're like, wow, this guy's like, you know, really going above and beyond here. But if you're just like, no problem at all, we'll just break it into three payments. I mean, it just ha it could work. It just has no value. And like this is, believe me, I've closed so many sales this way. Like this language pattern is like my probably 50% of my closes if people have to, I mean, almost 90% of my closes when people have to do a payment plan. Does this make sense? Cool? So, moving on. Okay. So, same thing. This sounds great. Can you send us over? I need to sync with my partner on it and get back to you. Alright? So, in this case, same framework. Alright, slightly different. I'm trying to give you some variations so you can kind of see how it plays out. Same framework, no problem. Okay, diffusing language. Just so I can be clear, like, how do you feel? Like, for you personally, do you 100% want to do this? Alright? Because here, it's totally cool if somebody needs to talk to their partner, and they might not be able to close on this very call. That's totally fine. My goal on that call is to get that person sold, right? Not in the way of giving me money, but in the way that like viscerally, emotionally, they do 100% want to do it in that moment. That is key. If that doesn't happen, if they're not 100% sold, they're not gonna convince somebody that we've never even spoken with that to do this. Does that make sense? You need to create a two versus one. This is really great for uh, we have to do this a lot for us because a lot of our stuff is B2B and it could be bigger, like higher company sales and companies doing a lot of revenue and they have a lot of bureaucracy. So this is very, very clear. Like you gotta create the champion. This is how you create the champion. Okay? So you you tie down in this way. They say, Yeah, I think it's great. It's kind of a mediocre response. So you say, Cool, just to clarify, if it was solely your decision, we'd be processing the payment and you'd be 100% moving forward. Again, the fit into language. You get it, double tie down. All right? He says, absolutely, like, I really want to do this. Okay, perfect. Well, I'll make sure to send everything over. Um, now, is this something to where, like, and you know, sometimes you're gonna ask this, sometimes you're not, depending on the case. But generally, like, especially with spouse or like a 50-50 partner, this is what you would say. It's gotcha. So is this something to where you basically made the decision and you're just gonna let them know, or is this something you guys need to really collaborate on? All right? Now, anything but a, oh no, like I'm definitely gonna do this, I wouldn't even worry about that. I just gotta let them know, because otherwise it'd be weird if they just saw 10 grand leaving the account or something along those lines. Anything but that is a collaboration. All right? So, like, if if you are uncertain at all if that is a collaboration versus a let them know, it's a collaboration. That's the rule of thumb. Okay? Now, most times, especially with business, they're gonna be like, no, you know, obviously we gotta talk about it, we gotta sit about it, we gotta talk about, you know, go to our quarterly meeting, whatever it is, and then decide from there. So now you actually know there are it's a support objection, right? Which again, like we talked about, it's only that thing. They're 100% sold, it's really just getting somebody else on board. So now we go back into discovery. So we say, okay, well, cool. Like, what do you think they're gonna think? What do you think they're gonna uh say about the price? That's a big one. A lot of times you'll be like, what do you think they're gonna think? Oh, they're gonna love it. What do you think they're gonna say about the price? They'll be like, he's not gonna like the price. And then you're like, okay, well, why not? You know, and just this is pretty basic. You just ask some questions, like it's not rocket science. Uh I like to ask, what would be the reason, if anything, they wouldn't want to do this? Okay? Uh, we have a whole other training about this in the course, but really the main things. You need to figure out is this a let them know or a collaboration? Is there any landmines with the partner? And then most importantly, do you trust this person to sell the partner? Or do you A, need to get them to bring the partner or spouse onto the call, or B, like, do you need to give them a little bit of a pep talk? You know, sometimes the partners, there's like a very dominant partner, and this could be spouse or just even business partners. There's like a very dominant one, and then there's one who's also like, you know, not doing the business the way they should be, and is kind of the problem. And then there's the partner who like is passive, but they kind of see what the solution is, and they're like, oh dude, this makes totally total sense. I really want to do this. But they're kind of like they get steamrolled by that partner, okay? Whether it's a marriage or it's even a business partnership, it's very common. So you kind of need to like coach that person up on how to have that conversation with certainty. Or, you know, maybe you gauge it and it's like, let's just bring this person to the call. Okay? I have more training on that if you want to go deeper, but we'll go to example four. So, sounds great. I need to think about it. Can you send us all over to an email? No problem. Just so I can clear, I mean the same phrase here. You know, how do you feel in terms of getting your business to 100 grand a month? Do you feel like this is 100% what you need to be able to get there? Okay, now in this case, they don't say yes. Right? They say, Well, you know, I like this is very common for us too. Because we'll say, Yeah, well, I like everything you said on paper, but you know, you never know until you actually do it. Like we tried somebody else in the past that was similar and it didn't work. Okay, so I call this a solution-based objection. Um, it falls under uncertainty, but it's really about being burned before, having a bad experience before, right? So then you say, Totally get it, and yeah, that's super frustrating. Like a lot of times we're put in the place where we have to pick up the pieces of somebody overprompts and then deliver. So just so I can be clear, is there anything about what I outlined specifically that's keeping you from being less than 100% certain that this is going to work? Or is it purely a hesitation based on that bad experience that's just really giving you pause? So you see how I'm going a level deeper there to really see, like, you know, basically, that aside, do you like, is there anything that's keeping you uncertain about what I covered? Does that make sense? And they'll say, Yeah, exactly. You know, that was such that was just uh such a horrible experience. So then you say, Great. So outside of that, you're essentially a hundred percent in. And then they say, yeah, so now I have it isolated. Okay? Now sometimes it's a little complicated. You might say, outside of that, you're essentially a hundred percent in. And they're like, well, no, you know, I actually got to figure out the money aspect too. So in that case, we have to address this first because it's uncertainty, and then we can go to the money. All right? So at this stage, again, it's similar to a spouse and partner, you want to do a discovery on what actually happened. All right, so I have an again, entire 30, 40-minute training on this. But in short, what I like to do is make an apples to oranges comparison. So I'll just ask questions like, well, how many clients did this recruiter have? What was their revenue? Did they actually have a sales team, or did it was it just a one-man shop and you talk to the founder? Have they worked with any top names? What were their case studies like? How long have they been around? Okay, now I know through asking those questions, whoever the competitor is, at least in our market, is not going to compare to us. So I'll say something like this: okay, so you're comparing somebody who has three employees and probably five clients with no sales team, they're doing all the sales themselves, and basically no credibility, very little case studies, somebody who's been the category king of the space, has done this for six years, worked with all the top brands in the industry, has almost 3,000 plus clients and all these trust pilot reviews, and most importantly, actually has a sales team doing eight figures, which is exactly what you want, right? Right? How does that comparison make any sense? You know? So I'm sorry that you did this in the past and it didn't work, but you learn the lesson of like, don't work with a beginner, but don't let that lesson, don't learn the wrong lesson there and make that lesson not doing something that's right. You know, and this is a part of business, you gotta invest, you know. So usually if you just handle that with certainty, you're gonna be good. So, as a recap here, this is not like the be all end all objection training, okay? I have that inside the training. This is again the 20%, maybe the 10% that drives 80% of the results, okay? Which is again proper committing phase going into the price drop, clear and direct temp checks, okay, to number one, to confirm this is the right thing, now's the right time, to isolate any objections or logistics, and then again a tonality that commands honesty, right? Like the vibe that I want to give people on the call is like we are just not gonna bullshit each other. Like, I'm not gonna bullshit you, I'm not gonna do any overselling, but I want you to be honest with me. Okay? So if they can get this right, this is why I like I really hammer this with my guys, because when they get this right, they don't even really need complicated objection handling frameworks. And that's what really falls them down, is like you give them these long rebuttals, and then they're like trying to like read a rebuttal as they're on the call, it's just weird. If you could just really just get this right, the rest will fall in place naturally for them. But again, they have to address that most important question, which is basically do they 100% want to do this? Are they sold? Really quick, if you're looking to land a lucrative high-ticket closing role, so something that's six or multiple six speakers a year, completely remote, and with an offer owner that has good leap flow, good comp structure, has an actual offer that gets their clients' results and the offer owners are cool, but you kind of feel like that you don't have the track record or the experience or even the connections to break into the industry and land an offer that's actually good, one that's worth result. I want to invite you to take a free quiz that I essentially created that'll assess where you're currently at in high-ticket sales, whether you're a complete beginner or you're very advanced or somewhere in between. And then after the quiz, it's gonna give you a customized game plan of how to up level your high-ticket sales career, whether that's just breaking in or taking your current position and really leveling it up to the next position. So the quiz is completely free, it takes 60 seconds. The game plan video is also completely free, so check that out. Just click the link in the description, and now back to the video. The next big thing I don't see with a lot of sales teams, even new guys, I rant myself, is deal making, okay? So this is what I mean. It's very critical, but I rarely see it. So after you do the tie downs, which is what we covered yesterday, um you're gonna uncover one or two things, right? And you guys know this, we covered this yesterday. An objection, which is basically they don't believe that this is the right thing or now is the right time, or a logistic, which is support or financial, right? Like I a hundred percent wanna do this, I just gotta talk to X. Or I a hundred percent wanna do this, I just gotta move money around. Okay, now when we get to logistics, right, closers that's very easy to handle, actually, but closers often really drop the ball on this, and it's due to really just a lack of creativity and kind of this just um assertiveness to do what it takes to get the deal done. You know, and you'll see that's a very common characteristic with like superstar closers. So I'm gonna give you an example. The easiest way to explain how to do this, I'm gonna give you an example for money and time. Okay, support logistic type objections we sort of covered yesterday. So money and time. So money. So it's not unusual, you'll do the tie-downs, kind of like we talked about yesterday, and someone's like, no man, like I'm 100% in, I just have to move this money around, then I can pay in full, but like I'm gonna pay in full in two days. Okay? Or like I'm 100% in, I'm just in the process of buying a house, so like I can't make any big investments, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but like, I'm 100% in. Okay? So, average salespeople, what they'll do is they'll just accept this and then they'll wait two days, book the follow-up, and then they're like, okay, you know, hopefully the person shows up. But we know even if you do, like I'll tell you this, even if I have a guy do the tie-downs really well, and genuinely the prospect like is 100% in. You guys know how it is. Like, they get off the call and then they're like, yeah, you know, maybe 50% in, right? And then they don't show up. Even though they told you they were 100%, and I don't think they were lying, there's just like desire fatigue. And stuff comes up, uncertainty creeps in, and for whatever reason they don't buy. So I'm gonna give you the a very, very basic example. Okay, this is kind of like some scripting, but I'm just gonna kind of talk through it. It's just it's just getting the idea through your closers' brains will be very helpful. So if somebody says, this is very common, let's say, let's say you're going. For a 15K pay in full, okay? And they say, I have to move money around, then I'm 100% in. So give me till Friday, or give me till Monday, and then I'm in. A lot of closers, and especially again, it's because they don't have this process at the end of the call, they need to slow it down, but they're just going so fast. So they'll be like, oh yeah, that's totally fine, but you're feeling good, right? And they're like, yeah, I'm feeling good. Okay, cool. Well, let's talk this date and then that's it. You need to slow it down and just understand what's actually happening. So I would say something like, okay, so just walk me through it real fast so I can stay organized on my end. When you say you're moving money around, like what does that look like? You know, where is it coming from? Are you selling off like some stocks? Are you taking it out of 401k or a brokerage account? Like, what will walk me through that, what's happening? Okay? Okay, and when is that gonna be finished by? Okay, great. And then when that's finished, you're 100% moving forward. Okay, you see definitive language again just to end that off. All right? Now, here's the thing. Now, this is why I gave the example of the 15K pay in full, is because a lot of times, you know, it is legitimate, like they have to move money around to do the 15k pay in full. But, I mean, this is in and it sounds so like duh, but people do not do this, I'm telling you. What you can do is basically take some form of down payment right now, and then just take care of the rest in two days or a week or however long of when they're done moving money around. So, like, there was an example I saw, uh, and thankfully one of our guys did it really well, but again, it was 15k paying full or whatever it was, and they just said, Oh, yeah, no problem. Well, let's just do this. And they'd already done the open wallet. It's like, let's do seven and a half now. That way we can still get you onboarding, you know, get the assessment, get the forms, get the onboarding call out of the way, and then we'll just take care of that in a week when you're done moving money around. Okay, I know that's like the simplest thing in the world, but people just don't do this. And then you can also go as low as, I mean, let's say you're going for a two pay and they gotta move money around. Okay, great. What you can do is just take half of the toupee, the other half in seven days, and then 30 days from there, the final payment. So, like, it just takes like a degree of creativity and sort of molding it to what works for the prospects so that they can do it now. Like, I almost feel dumb saying this because it is so simple, but I have seen even some of my advanced people, like they just don't fucking do this. And it's like, dude, you could have at least gotten the deal right now. Now we don't know. You know, at best, even if they said they're 100% in, I'm like, it's like 70, 75%, and then you miss easy deals this way. Does this make sense? Cool?

unknown 46:27

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

So uh money example number two. So this is, and again, this is gonna seem like duh common sense, but you guys were talking about, where's my guys? This is what I was talking about with you guys yesterday. Is like they were really rigid with how they did payments and how they did their deals, and once they just added a little bit more flexibility, you said that unlocked a lot of stuff for you guys, right? So um, you know, sometimes, especially in B2C offers, I see this, you know, the prospect just doesn't fit perfectly into your your like structured plans. One pay, two pay, three pay. This doesn't necessarily mean that they can't do it. So, like yesterday we talked about doing the open wallet where you get out in front of them, cash on hand, credit, and their net 30-day income. Oftentimes they might be like, dude, I'm 100% in, I just gotta wait for this client payment or this work payment to come in in two weeks. A lot of times what you can do, and we we call this grease in the chute, but uh Yagore loves these deals, we call them the greasy deals, but you can take one or two K now and then get them up to the three-pay threshold in a week or two weeks, and then they're on regular, they're on the regular three payment schedule from there, or the regular two-payment schedule from there. But you need to empower your sales team to have this kind of deal-making ability so that people can make a decision and there's no reason not to move forward right now. Does this make sense? Okay, hopefully it's not too basic, but I I rarely see it outside of the teams that like I've directly trained. And it makes a huge, huge difference in terms of getting people to move forward and getting people to buy on call number one. So, generally, what I like to do is I think it's like for us, it depends on the total price point. But like a good number is usually 30 or 33 percent. They have to be at that threshold to onboard. But dude, I'll just tell people, I'll just be like, look, let's get this done now. That way you get access to A, B, C. You can get your onboarding forms out of the way, but just make me a gentleman's agreement. You are gonna get up to half down before you do your onboarding call, just as, you know, whatever, right? So, like, I just I just always use the gentleman's agreement frame. I'm just like, make me a gentleman's agreement. So that's basically what I do there. Let's do questions at the end. I just uh I like Jim, you know? That's that's what you get when you attend every event. You can interrupt me in the middle of my presentation. All right. So timing. This is a little this one you are gonna like. This is uh very pertinent to the next couple of months. So people want to start after the holidays, right? This sounds great. I want to start January 3rd or January 2nd or 4th, or whenever whenever is gonna be the Monday after New Year's, right? So then you say, got it. So timing aside, you're 100% in. They say, Yeah. Okay, so just to be clear, if we're having this same exact conversation on January 3rd and you're feeling the same exact way you feel right now, then you're 100% giving me your credit card and moving forward. They're like, Yeah, great. Well, I got an idea. Are you open to it? And they say, Yes, okay, cool. Well, look, like I don't think based on what we talked about on this call and X, Y, and Z and what you brought up about your current situation, that the best thing for you is to wait and do nothing. But I also don't think the best thing is to hop in right now if you're going on vacation, you're doing this and that, and you're not gonna have the full time to be able to commit to this. So, what I'd be willing to do for you is add 30 days onto your engagement with us. That way you could start now, knock out the onboarding, get some of the forms done, get some of these initial items out of the way. Then when your official start date comes around January 3rd, we can really hit the ground running. So if I was willing to do that for you, would you be willing to move forward right now? Okay? So you can do this, and I mean, sometimes I've done this with seven days, like somebody's uh, you know, this is like a common situation. I I I heard one of these not too long ago. Was somebody, it's like they had a week and then they were going on vacation for a week and then they could start. So it was like a two-week delay. So I just bought them two weeks, right? Simple as that. So sometimes you could do it and it's just very minor. Other times, like it might be 30 days. You know, if you have like uh more scalable deliverables, you could do this as long as you want to, whatever makes sense for your business. I know for us with like a B2B service, you know, we can't really do more than like 45 days, you know, like that would be the most. And this really comes in, you know, right now is it we're kind of getting to the time where you might see some. November, for sure you're gonna see these objections. It's like the common. So like starting November 1st, I'm gonna start hammering this with the team. Because, and the nice thing is too, if you do the January 3rd thing and you do it in November, you know they're not gonna be engaged during Thanksgiving. You know they're not gonna be engaged during two weeks, probably out of December. So you're really not even offering them that much more time, but you're taking out of any logistical reason for them not to do it now. Because what we did here is they had an objection or a logistic. We changed the terms now to make that irrelevant so they either have to buy or it prompts the conversation of what's really going on. Right? And then we can have the honest conversation like we talked about yesterday. Does this make sense? Cool. All right, so follow-up show rate. So strategies decrease follow-up show rate. So basically, our best performing closers, this will be a little bit more applicable if you do anything kind of B2 preneur, B2B, but also B2C. But especially for us, we talk with a lot of businesses, I'd say 50 to 70-ish percent um have uh partners. So like they cannot make a decision on the first call, usually. Like we do get a healthy amount of one call closes, but there's a lot of closes, I mean at least half, where no matter what we would have done, how good the call is, they can't close right then. All right. So what I've seen is our best performing closers also direct correlation, highest follow-up show rates. Okay? So I'm gonna give you two kind of like unique strategies to be able to get more people to show up to the follow-ups. Because nothing's more frustrated than somebody tells you they're 100% in and they don't fucking show up. You're like, what happened? Okay, but we're gonna talk about the psychology of why that might happen. So we're gonna talk about open loops and diffusing the pressure through the right framing. Now, these are kind of like a little bit more advanced strategies. They're not complicated, they're just a little bit more tactical. It goes without saying, you know, this won't work if your calls suck. Right? So you have to have good report energy, proper discovery, proper gap. Uh they gotta be 100% clear on the offer, they've got to be sold, that this is the right thing, now's the right time. That also goes without saying, if that's not there, you know, it's not gonna work. So let's talk about open loops. So we already spoke about this is yesterday, going through the open wallet, right, and how to basically kind of down sell the payment plans and like lower the terms when they're 100% and it's just finance is standing in the way. So, what we do is we we start at the high level with the pay in full. Okay, that's very key. We don't give payment plans up front. And then once we have isolated it as a financial logistical thing, then we can start to talk about payment plans. Now, sometimes due to logistics, like I said, they're not even closable on that first call. So, in this instance, what I'll do is open up a loop about payment options so that they have to come to that second call to figure it out. So here's what it looks like. So let's say uh they want to sleep on it, you know, same thing we talked about a hundred times, no issue at all, I'm good with you sleeping on it. So to clarify, if we schedule tomorrow and you feel the same way you feel right now, then you're 100% moving forward. They're like, yes. Okay, awesome. So let it set that, let's get that time book for tomorrow. Then you're like, scheduling the time. And then after the time's scheduled, they got the invite. Hey, one last thing. I want to go over with you tomorrow a few ways we could potentially break up the payment to make it financially a little bit easier on you as well. But I'm already five late to my next meeting, so let's go over that tomorrow. Sound cool? So that's a little open loop. And also what's nice about this is if we haven't given the payments yet on that first call, what happens is if they do cancel, we can do a re-offer text message, which is in the training, using this open loop, and that will get them back on the call. It's very, very successful. Okay? So um the whole concept and the idea here is if you as a salesperson still have information to provide, then you still have value in the prospect eyes. Once you give away all your information, and I'm not saying like you know gotta be some weird Macchiavelian salesperson here, but just you know, once you don't have any more information to provide the person, you have no use to them. They're just gonna make a decision. That's why people say at the end of the call sometimes, great, I have all the information now, I'll get back to you with the decision. So if you still have some information or some open loops, you can be in control and still lead the sales process, okay? So another couple things you can do if the payments don't make sense, you can tease up two to three really good case studies. So people who are very similar to them, and then basically say that you're gonna cover them in depth on the next call. You could also, let's say you do maybe you know some high-level marketing agency stuff or something, um, and this is more common in enterprise sales, but you can come up with like a financial ROI model for them or some sort of some sort of implementation model for them on the next call that you can go over with them. And that could be something you use sometimes and you don't use other times. But you see how now there's a reason for them to show up to this next call. Right? Like you're kind of conjuring up something to where they want to get that last bit of information so that they can make a decision. All right? So it's always kind of staying a step ahead of the sales process. And what we want to avoid is this frame of come to the call with a decision. Okay? Which brings me to my next point. So how to diffuse the pressure of the follow-up call being like a high pressure come to this effing call with a decision type of thing. Okay? So this is the number one mistake. So number one mistake with prospects ghosting their follow-ups is it's framed as a you better come to this call with a decision. Now, this could be explicit. Like I will not lie, I've I've reviewed some calls and I have literally heard certain people say, you better come to this call with a decision. So, but that's rare. Usually it's implied. So here's the deal. Uh, by default, all right, this is the psychology piece I was talking about earlier. By default, if you do not give them any other reasons to show up to the follow-up call in their brain, the only other reason to show up is to tell you yes. So if their actual if how they feel that day when your follow-up is set is no, or more likely even, not yet, they will just not show up. Because why would they? There's nothing else to show up for because you framed it as the only way, their only reason to show up is to tell me yes. Does it make sense? Okay? So this will seem a little counterintuitive because it it is actually a little bit of a pendulum swing from how hard I do the tie-downs earlier in the call. But what I do is make a proactive effort to tell them not to come to the call with a decision. Okay? So it's super counterintuitive, and we'll look at how like kind of the scripting could work. So I'll say awesome, let's get that time book for tomorrow that we schedule the time, and then I'll say, cool. Hey, so one last thing tomorrow. Um, tomorrow I want to go over two specific case studies of clients in your exact industry, exactly where we started with them, what we implemented, and what their ROI was and what time frames. Plus, I'll talk about some payment options that'll maybe make this easier for you to break it up that I just gotta check with management with first, but I think we'll be fine for you. So I got a lot of cover, a lot to cover with you. We really haven't even covered everything. So don't feel like you have to come to the call or that next call with any sort of decision. All I want you to do is come to the call with questions. Because I know we went through a lot of your questions now, but when you get off the call, you know, you're gonna think of things that you wish you would have asked that you didn't ask. Do me a favor, write all those down. Let's cover the questions along with the information that I have, and then once you have all the information, we can figure out whatever decision for you is the best decision, whether that's a now thing or it's all good with me if we have to build towards that in the future. Does that sound good for tomorrow? So you see that framing, nobody does that, right? But we have one guy who has like 90 plus percent follow-up show rate, he's our best guy. He does this. Okay? Because I taught him. But um you can come up with any variation of this. You can use this scripting if you want, but the vibe is what I want you to get. So we do want to get them those tie. It is a little confusing because it's like, well, dude, like you were kind of like hammering them yesterday about like, are you 100% in? But I needed to see where they were at. Once I know they are sold, then I want to, as we're going to the follow-up, I want to loosen up the pressure. I want them to feel like they don't have all the information. I need you to come tomorrow so you can get all the information so you can make a decision. But you don't have all the information yet. Does this make sense? Is this helpful? Do you does anybody think their sales teams do this? Right. Okay. So two common payment plan mistakes. Uh this is a little bit random, but common thing that I see, I even saw it at the VIP day. So this will apply. If you do a yearly thing, this is good, the metrics are gonna be a little bit off here. But this is if you if you do like a 90-day thing, this is gonna be right up your alley. So if your upfront cash collection percentage is greater than 40 to 50 percent, especially if it's greater than 50 percent, you really need to look at increasing the price. You know, I told this to Dickey at the VIP session, and literally the example I laid out, I was like, man, that's like exactly his example. But what a lot of times happens, and this is very much for B2C offers, if you're B2B, most likely your prospects have money. So this might not apply to you as much, but B2C, which is a lot of people hear, this applies. So you have good upfront cash collection, your closing rates are good, you should increase the price. Now, at a certain stage, you tend to see a little bit more resistance. And what happens is when you see the resistance, not in the form of like people not being certain about it, but just like financial, logistical type of stuff, like they physically don't know if they can do it, most people stop there. What they usually need to do, especially in the B2C world, is elongate the payment plans. Okay? The key is you want to keep upfront cash higher than 35 to 40 percent. Now, I hate throwing out those metrics because it's very offer-dependent and even industry dependent, but you know, I would say with RCA, that was kind of what our KPI was. So here's the common mistake. This will really drive this home. Is $60,800 offer, 60% upfront cash. Okay? Likely that person can go all the way up to $9,800. Even if upfront cash would drop to 40%, they're gonna net way more money. But what they may have to do, especially with B2C, is add on a four and a five pay option. Now, if you're a B2B service like us, like we we can't do that because like we have to, we have like a lot more expenses, right? But with B2C, you're a little bit lighter there. So you could do a four or five pay option. Now, here's what is really important. The idea is you have to maintain all of your one and two and three pays you originally would have gotten, and the four and the fives become net new sales. If you have your salespeople get lazy, which we'll talk about later, and their one pays turn into the two pays and twos turn into threes, threes turn into you know, now it's like a wash. But if you QC and you're really big on this and they're paid on cash, you can you can get them to where there is net news sales. And you get a lot of pay and fulls and a lot of two pays, and yes, will your churn on the four and five pays be higher? Yes. But in our experience with RCA, we ran a lot of numbers and we found it was worth it. And it was much worth it. We even, at one point, one of the stupidest, this is a good story, one of the stupidest things I've ever done. We had the price at 9,800. But you know, upfront cash was like 35%, and you know, we were getting a lot of churn on four and five pays, and I was wondering, I was like, maybe we take it down to like 5,800, and what we'll do is we'll get more upfront cash because it's not as big of a price point, and we'll do more sales and we'll actually make more money. Here's what happened: 9800 to 5800 is I think a 41% decrease in price. Okay? Guess how much our uh profit went down, or was it it was like either profit or revenue? Guess how much it went down? 41%. So we did, and then we enrolled like 50 to 60 more units. And so we like tore apart our fulfillment because like we were so fucking overloaded, and then we were making less money, and it made no sense. Sasha might remember that. I was at an exec when I was running these numbers, I was in an executive off site, I was like so pissed about this. Because it was just like, how dumb do I have to be to just lower the price and expect more money? Like, I just was like, what was going on? So, anyways, this is what we did for RCA. So, Dickie, I don't know where he's at, but um, yeah, like I I wrote this before I even spoke with you. But this is your exact situation, you know what I'm saying? So it's something you should definitely test. Now, this brings me to the second mistake. It's like this is kind of the dark side of number one, is number two, which is too greasy. Here's like, if you want me to throw a closer out a window, this is what they do, okay? Is giving a payment plan is not effective objection handling. It's pathetic, okay? So, like, the example is the prospect says, I want to think about it. Salesperson who's like overselling the entire call is like, yeah, well, what if we just do four payments? And the prospect's like, uh, I need to think about it. You know, it's like, like giving better payments is not overcoming uncertainty. But I'm telling you, if if if if you're not frustrated when you see this, you're not fucking QC in your calls. Like, you will see some of this stuff where you're like, dude, what are you doing? Like it's an uncertain, like the guy doesn't even think it's gonna help him, and you're trying to be like, well, let's break it into two. It's like, what? You know, like thanks. Like, and now you just look desperate and like slime it just you're dig it's like a doom loop. You're just digging yourself a hole. Okay? So, I mean, this is an extreme example, but I see forms of this all the time. You got a QC, and really what this is, as we talked about yesterday, is like the salespeople need a process to follow at the end of the call. That's why I did that whole part. Is like really to get them a distinct process. I call that process pacing the first objection where you get the tie down, the double tie down, then you isolate. They need a process. When they don't have a process, and then they're triggered and they're in fight or flight, they do shit like this. Okay? And it's desperate and pathetic. So, moving on. That's the last of the sales stuff. Now we're gonna get into sales team and management, okay? So uh this one on running projections. So I'm not gonna go over, I have other trainings, and I'm sure you guys have been through them, on how to run sales meetings in full. Okay? This is just the common mistake that AMs tell me that they see clients make, so I want to cover this. So here's the format. When you get, you know, there's win, you get on the sales meeting, you first do wins, okay? Then you do projections, then you do a form of a training for about 30 to 40 minutes. Projections is where a lot of the common mistakes happen. Here's kind of the cadence of what projections look like. So we can send you guys a screenshot. We have a really nice sales team dashboard now where we do the projections on a spreadsheet and it all has a bunch of cool formulas, so it's all very neat. On that spreadsheet, what we do is first we cover what happened with any slated deals from yesterday, which are usually follow-ups above, you know, 40, 50%. Okay, this will make more sense in a second. Then after we cover yesterday, we go to today and we cover probabilities of all the slated deals. So like a rep might say, you know, we'll be like, hey, where are we at for today with slated deals? The rep might say, okay, I got John Doe at 60%, then he tells me about John, I got Jane at 90%, he tells me about Jane, I got Benny at 50%, he tells me about Benny, and then I have four new ops. So I'm gonna project two today. Okay? And if you see, like this projection is about a two to three, if these accurate, if these uh probabilities are accurate. Because your your bank and Jane's gonna come in, maybe they get out of Benny and John Doe, maybe they get one of those, and then they got four new ops, which kind of hedges it. So two is very safe. Three is it's kind of like a two to three. Three would be stretch, two is very safe, so I'm comfortable with two. Now, after this, and this is the very key, this is kind of the punchline. Is the next day you have to check about yesterday's probabilities and see how accurate they were. Okay? This is very, very, very key. So over time, what you're gonna observe, eventually you'll have sales like your best people, they will they'll they'll be pretty accurate, okay? But initially, almost always, they're gonna be terrible. So over time, you're gonna observe how accurate these are. Now, an example is if somebody projected, you know, Jane at 90% today, then tomorrow I run the meeting, and the first thing I do is I check in on the slated deals from yesterday, and Jane didn't didn't even show up to the call, we're gonna have a long conversation about that. Like that's not like that's dishonest in my opinion, so from from my closer's part. Like they they they either either was an anomaly situation, but much more likely they totally misdiagnosed that call, and they have a big blind spot there. So we're gonna have a long conversation about that. I'm gonna start digging and then I'm gonna review the call on that meeting and see if I can save the deal. Okay? So this is a little like it's a little heady of a concept, and so there's probably a better way of explaining it, explaining this, but I'm gonna give it my best shot. Is increasing the salesperson's accuracy is when you when you want to take somebody from great to like absolute superstar, this is the key. It's really increasing their accuracy of how they can project these deals. Because what really holds salespeople back is not the problems they think they have that they see, it's the problems they're having that they don't see. And it's the blind spots. And the way you can find that is by finding deals they think are 90%, but realistically we're like, we'll review the call, we'll be like, dude, this is 30%. And that that delta is the growth for them. So if I can help them see that when they originally wouldn't have seen that, that's where the growth is. And that's where the growth is for all of us. Like, we're I always tell uh, you know, fulfillment team is usually clients are stuck, not because they know what the problem is and they don't know how to fix it, it's usually because they uh don't know how to diagnose or it's fuck, I'm gonna fuck it up. It's usually they're fixing the wrong problem or they're misdiagnosing their problem. Hopefully that made sense. It's the same thing with closers. Okay, so it's it's really for them unlocking the blind spots that lead to the most growth. Okay? So for call reviews, and I was I was talking to somebody earlier about this outside, but what we do, what we want to do with fringe deals is we always want to review ones. Fringe deals are the ones that should or could close, because it might still be in play, right? That are at risk. So should have closed but didn't close, or great call and went to follow-up. So what I do is the way I identify the fringe deals and the ones to review is you look at the end of days and you look for stuff like great call coming in at the end of the week, great call should be paying tomorrow, great call, have a really great follow-up in two days. Those are the ones you should definitely review. Number one, because you can might be able to save those deals, which I'm gonna talk about in the next section. But, you know, they'll be like, oh yeah, this is 80% coming in on Friday. You'll review it, you'll be like, no, this is trash. And that is the blind spot opportunity for them. Now here's the thing: those calls, because they think they're gonna come in, they don't submit to review. Does that make sense? They think they're gonna come in. What they submit to review, and this is why I always teach our sales managers, never just ask the reps, give me a call to review. Because what they'll do is they'll give like really weird prospects, really bad ones, ones where they know they fucked it up, it was like a difficult deal. But the ones they don't do are like the ones that are really good that should definitely close that slip through the cracks. And that's what we want to identify because we want more of the fringe deals, right? We're gonna increase our closing rate. The way to do that is through first capitalizing on that low-hanging fruit. Does this make sense? It's kind of like nuance, but it is so like I hammer our sales managers about this. Um and when you're reviewing those calls, again, it alleviates the blind spots for the salesperson. So, wrapping up here, how much should your sales manager sell? So, this is a big thing. Um, I get this question a lot. Most sales trainers agree in something called the player coach fallacy, which is basically player coaches don't work and they're worthless. Um, the reason why is sales is an inherently a selfish position. And I don't mean they're like selfish and they, you know, only care about themselves. It's just like you're always looking for the next deal, you're only worried about your projections, and it's really your business inside of the business, right? So like they are gonna be very tunnel-visioned on their outcome. They're not gonna be thinking from a broader perspective about the team. That's how sales is. And if you if you don't get that, you've never done full-time selling. If you've done full-time selling, you know what I'm talking about. Management, though, is a selfless position. So you're just constantly, if it's done right, you're just pouring into the team through QC. So what happens is when you put a sales manager on calls, even if it's half volume, what happens is they don't have, number one, time to get to all the responsibilities, and QC, which is the most important thing, reviewing calls, doing one-on-ones, and call reviews on the one-on-ones, and sending reps looms of call reviews that they should be doing and things that you should be doing different, and leaving leaving in the blight spots, all this stuff that we just talked about, they don't do it. And the reason why is, I mean, if you think about their day, they have three calls, then you're also probably gonna have them on like a marketing or a leadership meeting. They got one-on-ones with the team. So what good what goes first, because they don't have any more time, is the exact thing you really need their help on, which is QC and training, like coaching the reps. Okay? So that almost always goes out the window. Number two is, and this is another big thing, you can't blame the sales lead for this, but they want to lead by example. Like if they're still on calls, like how good of a leader are they if they're like bottom of the pack in terms of their sales? So their sales is always gonna come first because they need to lead by example, otherwise, they feel like they have no authority. The other thing is, too, in sales leads, almost always the way you comp them is majority on how much they close. And there's a very smaller percentage on how much they coach. So, like, you know, they're they're gonna want to make money, they're gonna want to prioritize the selling. The other thing is, is selling is a bottomless pit of activity. If you've been in sales, you know this. You can always do more stuff. So it makes it very hard to create boundaries around management versus selling time.

unknown 1:12:14

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:14

So this is kind of an aside, but when I say selling is a bottomless pit of activity, like you need to train your reps. Like, if you have a no-show, they should have a list of productive stuff to do as soon as they have that no-show and it's 10 minutes past the call. Like for me, I would either be hitting my hotless follow-ups, general list follow-ups, I'd be hitting new leads that come in. I mean, worst case, if I had like nothing to do, which is very rare, I would just load up random leads in the power dialer and just sit there. Like, fuck it. Like, oh shit, I'm getting animated. But uh, it's like fuck it. You know, it's like, why? Like, what are you gonna do? Like go on a fucking siesta? You know, it's like go to Taco Bell or something. Like, I mean, you have nothing to do. You you had that allocated to a call. Do like you really have two things you should be doing: generating calls and doing them. That's it. So, like, have boundaries. I was really good when sales, I had great boundaries from like 7 a.m. Once it hit like 5 30, I was done. Like, I wasn't working at like you know 8 30 or anything like that. But like that time I had allocated, there was very few wasted minutes. And you would see that. Like, it there was times where my outbound dials would rival the top setters on our team, and I had six fucking calls a day. And it's because if calendars were light or I had show rate, load up the power dialer and I'd just literally sit there and I I mean, and it's so easy. You load up the power dialer, and especially when you're good, you you you look at social media, you wait for somebody to answer, and then you just get right into it. And for closers too, for me, when I would set my own deals as a full-time salesperson, like 60 to 70% close, because I'm only gonna set deals for myself that I know are worth my time that are gonna close. Like I kind of can feel that out. So it's a very productive thing, very few salespeople unfortunately do it. Now, I'm not totally saying that you shouldn't have team leads. There's um, like we have a team lead on our team right now, okay? Now, the thing is it's more so, I see with a lot of folks, the expectation of the team lead. Like you're promoting this team lead and you're like, man, this guy's really gonna help me out with sales management. Probably not. You know, like they're not gonna do much. I look at it as kind of like an intern for a future sales manager where I can feed them some responsibilities and then coach them on how they're doing call reviews, give them one meeting and see how they do with that meeting, and see how they maybe give them a few one-on-one, see how they do it. It's like an intern position for a sales manager. If it's viewed through that lens, that's fine. Okay, if it's viewed through this person's gonna, like I'm uh that's gonna alleviate 80% of my sales minute responsibilities, you're in for a uh bad surprise. Now, on the other side, there's a few issues with having the sales manager do no sales whatsoever. Okay, and this is really something unique that uh I've been incentivizing my team to do recently. So, number one, issue number one, is this person was probably your best salesperson, right? So, like all of their performance is gone, which sucks. All right? The other thing is too, sometimes they get a little rusty or out of touch. Um, you know, maybe they haven't taken calls for your offer before, so they're a little bit out of touch of what works. Um, you know, sometimes if your team has a huge ego, they might like think the sales manager is out of touch, they don't really respect their feedback as more. And then also the other thing is the best way to train is to show and not tell. So, like I recommend a lot of you guys do this, it's just so impactful. Um, I did this uh in January of this year. I just took like three calls one week. That was it. I closed them all. And then what I did is I used those as case studies, and the next three weeks of meetings was us going through every single bit of those calls, and then that also got uploaded into our school portal that trains our closers, right? Because the best thing, the best way for them to learn is to see me do it. Like, like anything, they learn through modeling. And so the more you can show and not tell, and just show them exactly what to do, and just be like, dude, copy this, just do this, the better. Okay? So like every quarter I try to take a couple of calls and just give them, it's like I'm just kind of feeding them some really good stuff to do, and you can see it, it does increase their performance. Like when I first did this for the very first time, man, we had like a huge bump in performance uh in January this year, 2024. So here's the solution to this. This is what I tell our sales managers to do now is first of all, what I'm not saying, never just put them on the calendar. Never fill them with leads from like one sub in the marketing or whatever. Don't like put them on the calendar. But two to five times a week, could be one a day. That's not very much. It could be, you know, one every other day. Two to five times a week, have them cherry pick some apps on the calendar. Generally, what I look for is two things. Number one, is this a super high-level prospect? So for us, if we have a if we have like a coach or uh agency or what have you, 100K a month plus, that's a really good one for the sales manager to take because we know that's a huge LTV client, and like we know we're 100% gonna be able to help them. And people like that tend to show up more. So that's a good one to take. The other thing is we'll have them focus on the newer reps. So let's say we have a rep and it's his first week, and I see on his calendar that he's got somebody that's doing 100 grand a month, I'll tell the manager, hey, ride the call with that rep. So what the manager does is they hop on and say, hey, you know, rep had something come up, they might have to hop off halfway through. We didn't want to reschedule you, so I'm just gonna make sure you're gonna get handled, but he's gonna stay on and just take notes so he's in the loop, and then you just get right into it. So they just take the call two to five times a week. Not a not a ton, just two to five times. Okay? This does a few things. Number one, you ensure the highest quality prospects close. Because a lot of times, this was what sucks about ramping new reps too, is like when you have those deals that are like laydowns, sometimes the new reps kind of fuck them up. So this kind of prevents that from happening. It also creates case studies for the rest of the reps, right? Your sales manager should really be, hopefully, the best person on the team, or at least like number two. Okay? So it creates a case study that is a close, hopefully, that the rest of the folks can look at and it sets that, it raises that baseline of the team, and they can do show not tell, they can break down their own calls. All right? And then for you or the CRO or what have you, whoever's above the sales manager, you can review the call, and then you can give them feedback on what they can do better. That makes them better, which raises the baseline of the team because they can't train the team to be better than them. So if you review their call and then you alleviate their blind spots, then they're more empowered to coach the rest of the team. Okay? And then also the reps just really like this. It feels like the manager and the reps are all in this together, but it keeps them from having like too many calls. Like three calls a day, two calls a day, well, even one call a day, and you got them on the calendar, like, there might be a week where we don't do it. There might be a week where it's a we we we hit it a little bit harder. But this just gives the flexibility, and also that way they can kind of cherry pick and they know, okay, this call's this call is confirmed, they're probably gonna show up, etc. Okay, and another good example of how we hit that two to five KPI is sometimes if we do double bookings, it can take some double bookings, but usually the setters manage the double bookings, but occasionally, if needed, you could do that. Okay, second type of selling I want the sales manager still to do is manager callbacks. So again, I've already said this. Major I say this like every presentation for the last four presentations. The majority of their job is QC, okay? Not messing with the CRM, not redoing the script, not doing a fun little project, not trying to get significance, Q fucking C, okay? Like reviewing calls, giving feedback, coaching and training the reps. That's it. That is 80% of their job. Now, a lot of times they don't want to do it, but you need to make sure they do it. You need to make sure they're doing the call reviews, posting it publicly for everybody to see, and then having an admin tell you if they didn't hit their daily KPI of how many call reviews they need to do. Okay? This is their job. Like, do not let them not do this. If they're not doing this, I don't know what the fuck they're doing. Because this is the job. All right? Now, when they're doing this, they're gonna identify tons of opportunities where they're like, holy shit, this prospect's perfect, they messed up the deal. Or, oh, it's pretty good, but like, man, they dismissed this one key thing. Okay? And so they uh they identify um manager callback opportunities. All right? And so you see this, you pick up the phone, you look in HubSpot, you see the person, you double die them, you send them a text, you get this person online, it's usually five to ten minutes, and that extra little call, it will usually push those people over the line. If I do it personally, it's almost like 75-80% close. Right? I mean, even on that call, it takes me five minutes and pay in full, you know? So it's a nice use of time. So if they're reviewing two to five calls a day, that could equate to easily about three to eight of these a week. So it's not like a time, like they're not outbound outbound dialing people all day. They want it to kind of be targeted. But two to five calls a day, usually three to eight deals a week. And then a lot of times we have our reps even flag some for manager callbacks, like, eh, I fucked up this call. Great. Manager callback channel. Okay. So, very, very high leverage, because this does not take, I mean, this is like three to eight per day. I mean, that's like an hour a week, you know? Because some people won't answer, you can't get a hold of them. When you do get a hold of them, it's usually a 10-minute conversation. So, I mean, this is like nothing. But you know, left to their own devices and without proper leadership, they will not do it. And this, along with the thing we just covered, I mean, this can tip like an extra 10, 15 deals a month, you know, depending on the scale that you're at. Okay. So that was the majority of the presentation. Uh, I've given a lot of uh stuff on show rates the last two presentations, but I just wanted to put this here because I know it's a thing that a lot of y'all struggle with, especially as we're getting into Q4. So this was literally meant for you to screenshot. Um, but it's basically uh the show rate checklist that I had in the training. I had a client recently that was asking me about show rates, and I just ran through the checklist. So I'll just go through this really quick. Number one, 48-hour booking window. If you haven't tested that, that's a big thing. Like if you have long booking windows, that's not good. Availability is the other thing, you should have six to eight slots per day. Now, if you're the only person taking the calls, which I know is not a lot of people here, but that could be possible. If the only person taking the calls, you might have to do a longer booking window to get more availability, and then you still not might have an optimal availability. It is what it is. Just know when you get a closer and they are full-time, you should be able to have a good show rate increase because this is not optimal. Uh, application grading. That's obviously a big thing. We're not gonna do a training on that right now, it's its own thing, but make sure you check that out if you're not doing it. Sending a pre-call video. Uh, all of the sequences I'm sending before um the calls, what I'm shifting towards, this is one of my big projects, and I got this from a really big uh media buyer in the space who I really respect, so I'm I'm pretty confident it's gonna help. Is instead of like once hub reminders, all the reminders, whether text or email, are gonna be personalized for me and try to add some sort of value through some sort of resource. So um, you know, we're gonna have several of those. Uh an LNS, if you guys don't know what that is, a lead nurture specialist. This is very big. They have an iPhone, they confirm people as soon as they book, and then the people who don't confirm, they follow up with. So I have a whole training on that. But if you're not doing it, that is the number one thing out of everything I've probably talked about today. Just make sure you do that and make sure it's an iPhone and they send blue. So you could use Sales Kick. Um, and make sure you QC what the LNS is doing to make sure it's good. Uh, if your show rate is bad from setters, it is because of the quality of the call of the setters. It's no other reason. So make sure you get call your uh, you know, make sure you train the setters, obviously. And then if you're like kind of stumped on it, have uh have your AM do some call reviews with the setters as well. Sometimes, like if your ads are absolutely horrible, that can lead to bad show rates. So, like if everything else fails, look at your ads or VSL. That's pretty rare, but I've seen it over the years, like that last three years, probably like four or five times. So it's pretty rare. Uh, a couple things. Uh the double booking system. I had a previous presentation on that, I don't have time to get through all of that now, but you can check that out. Uh we do that for people who don't confirm. So make sure you implement that if you're still struggling. Uh, this is a weird one I do want to bring up. This is something I learned in the last 90 days was really bizarre. We seem to find through the meta-targeting, you know, in in in Facebook, there's three types of categories of targeting options. There's, I think it's demographics, behavioral, and then interest. We found that demographic and behavioral had significantly worse show rates than interest. Okay? Now, since like last week, I maybe saw some evidence to maybe not say this is the case, so I didn't change it in time, but I would check it out. Like there was a I I basically at one point looked at all the show rates of all of the campaigns that we had. The interest ones were in KPI, then demographic and behavioral ones were like 30%. And it was a new funnel we were testing. It was a really weird thing, and so I don't know, I don't know why that is, but you know, if you're really struggling with show rates, it's just something to look into and maybe test. And then what we're also doing that's new is um a custom audience, it's a seven day reel sequence, so I take my top view reels on Instagram, and then after somebody books for a seven day time frame, just like I don't know if it's uh max impressions or daily reach or what have you, but we just make sure we give them a lot of impressions in terms of just sending them content. So I don't have an ending slide, but that's it. Thank you guys.