9 Business Owners Ask Me How to Scale to $30M+/year

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0:00 - Mastermind Overview
0:41 - Company Culture
7:52 - AI & Automation
14:44 - Scaling to $100M+
27:12 - Hiring Sales Reps
35:52 - Navigating 8-Figures
43:33 - CEO Time Management
47:15 - High-Ticket Upselling
51:50 - Fixing Bottlenecks
56:49 - Sales Psychology

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So one of the most fun things we do in our $36 million a year company is we run three eight-figure boardroom mastermind events a year. And so these are specifically for people at least at a million dollars a year, trying to get to a million dollars a month or five million dollars a month, if not more. The average or kind of median person in the room is doing about $500 a month, but there's people all the way to doing over $100 million a year. And so one of the fun things that we did is we had a competition to where people broke into teams. And essentially the team that could present the best tactic had a private one-on-one group session with me. And so we're not going to share the entire session on YouTube, but we are going to do is clip together a few of the most fun and cool and interesting moments into this video right now. So we'll go right into the first clip. So as we get into the video, this first clip talks about how to create a great company culture. Because one of the biggest questions that I get asked from clients who get to know my team is how did you build such a phenomenal culture with such high-level people, with such high-level standards, and so on and so forth. So I relate building culture to this principle in physics about deterministic versus emergent properties, which I'll explain in this clip right now. One of the most common questions people ask, and I don't, I'm like, I'm like, I don't really know how to answer this. Is they'll be like, you asked it, Jeremy, at one point, but many people have asked me, is how do you create, you know, how did your culture be so good? How do you create such a good culture? And I was um, I'm I'm kind of a nerd, so I was I was studying physics. And there's this concept in physics called emergent versus uh deterministic properties. And so a deterministic property is like a jet engine, right? Like you can turn it on, you know how it works, you could expect how it works, and it's like it's a very like, it's like a light switch, you know, like a light switch, you turn it on, the lights go on, there's there's circuitry, all that stuff, it's AC current, so on and so forth. Those are deterministic systems, right? An emergent system is like the stock market, to where there's millions upon millions of confounding variables happening at any one time, and then from that, an emergent property in the form of price emerges. Does that make sense? It clears, okay? So culture is actually an emergent property. And in emergent properties based in physics, the only way you can influence them is by incentives and by and by setting the initial conditions, right, of the system. So let me translate this into like what's actually practical. Once I was realizing this, I was thinking about you know our company and why we have the culture we have. And I was really selective. Like my first six hires, like I said, we were able to do it was six to eight hires, 500 grand a month. Like they were full stack, they did everything, you know. We didn't have a big team, we didn't have very many low-level people in the very beginning. There's maybe like one 4K a month employee. Everybody else was like banger level talent. And obviously, the culture came from me and my values and our company values that we set, and those are kind of the initial conditions. But the other most important initial conditions is your first eight hires, right? And particularly who's who ends up managing your teams. And you'll find like the culture will emerge from that. And it be kind of becomes this like blended garden of like departments. It's like each department is like a little different person of your garden that has a little bit of a different kind of culture to it. So, like, stuff that has happened in my company, like the evolution of soup that people play, you know, where they're five, that's drink like that's a great example. I mean, I know it's goofy, it's a great example of an emergent property of our culture, right? To where, like, we got a little bit of broy, we got these guys are fucking crazy, and somehow like soup just came to life. You know, like if you look at the group chats, you'll see like there's just inside jokes and these memes and all these things, and these are things that just emerge. So the practical takeaway is that the only way to really control that is by influencing the initial conditions, which is your your first. This is why, well, you know, I don't I don't know how many people you you mentioned this, but how many people in like YC or whatever these tech people, they're like, oh, your first eight hires is so important. And you kind of hear that, and you're like, well, yeah, dude, I'm not gonna hire, duh, I'm not gonna try to hire a derp, you know? Like you hear this stuff, but it doesn't hit. And then eventually it fucking hits, and you're like, yeah, that sounds so simple, but wow, that's like profound. And this is why it is so profound, is because everything will stem from those people. Like those first eight people I had, it was it was our and then ended up being our sales manager, who was our sales rep, our recruiting director, Yagore, and Sasha. I mean, so right there is like boom, like they all turned to executives. But they were all like I hired full stack people, paid them a lot, and then I try I was really about trying to have the leanest team doing the most amount of revenue. Right? I was really inspired by how how Sam Evans was doing like a million a month with eight people. And that's kind of the that's kind of like the tree that I came out of. You know what I'm saying? Like everybody kind of is in flu, like if you can trace people back, everybody kind of has like a source in a extent. Like, if you look at football, um, all the coaches, I think it's they they all like almost all the coaches in the NFL can be traced back to Bill Parcells. And a lot of them now Bill Belichick, right? Who was under Bill Parcells? I might it might not be Bill Parcells, but it's it's somebody like that, right? And in jujitsu, all the black belts, I mean you can literally fucking by the system trace them back to like one or two people, right? And so what's interesting is like I was really influenced by Taylor Welsh and Traffic and Funnels, but he was a Sam Oven student. Then I became a Sam Ovin student later in quantum. And Sam was a student from Kevin Nations, and he is really the person who I mean, you guys might not know this, but he kind of created our industry, right? He really took the webinar internet. Marty probably knows Kevin Nations. You know Kevin Nations? In my opinion, he's kind of like nobody fucking knows who he is, but he's kind of like the OG. He kind of created, like, you know, like the Sam Ovan script. Do you know the guys that back in the day? That's really Kevin Nation's script, you know? So we're we all kind of live in this tree, you know. Then when you think of ideas, I like to try to trace them back to the source. And the most efficient way to learn a new material is the source material. So I'll give you an example. You guys have here heard Hermozzi talk about like behavior. He talked, he talks about it a fuck ton. Well, eventually I was like, this seems interesting. I've heard him talk about this a million times. So I just uploaded a transcript of one of his videos into Claude. And I was like, hey, what's the source material behind all these ideas? And it was B.F. Skinner. And so then I was like, all right. So I read B.F. Skinner for like two months. And now I like now I but I I learned basically all the shit he's talking about way more fucking efficiently than listening to him talk about it. And it's a great way to learn stuff, you know. And so this is why, like, with marketing, like you gotta read Eugene Schwarz, you gotta read Claude Hopkins, you gotta read this, you gotta read, gotta read that. Um so, anyways, culture, emergent properties, deterministic properties, etc. I just thought that was very interesting. If you're looking for a mastermind to take your business to 10 million a year plus, then you wanna check out our eight-figure border mastermind. So after doing 100 million in total cash collected for my own companies, I've created a mastermind where I really pull back the curtain and show you exactly how I've done it. So I not only share with you what's working for us across marketing, sales, fulfillment, operations, finance for all of our different companies. At the same time, you can network with some of the top people in the industry and also listen to world-class speakers like Patrick But David, Dean Grassiosi, Neil Patel, and Tom Bailu, and many, many others. So if you're interested, check out the link in the description and get more info. Now, this next clip is going to talk about my thoughts on AI as well as how we hired a developer by trade who was also really good with the coding agents and hired this person in full time to do all the development and all the AI automation of our entire business and how it really transformed our entire company. The thing is with AI, is like, so if you would have hired a developer for your company, I mean it could still obviously work, but if you hired a developer for your company three years ago, before the agents, you know, they could still create all the stuff that were being created, but it would cost way more and take way longer. And so what's interesting about software is right now, at least, you know, nobody really knows what's gonna happen in the future. But right now, it's not destroying jobs. And what it's doing is it's lowering the cost to make software, and it's not really replacing legacy enterprise software. Like you're not gonna replace HubSpot. You know, it's just too like, I mean, you could technically could, but I mean, fuck, like you're now you're building a whole thing, you know? And so what's happening is is we're building all of this, it's we're just building a lot more software. And if you've read the book, Ask Your Developer, he talks about uh, you know, how Purple Mattress, it's they're not a mattress company, they're a software company that sells mattresses. I think that's where a lot of things are gonna shift to where we're gonna become much more software enabled, and there's gonna be a lot more software that is essentially augmenting a lot of workflows that are managed by humans. But right now it's not really, I mean, you know, it can replace some like VAs and stuff, but you know, it's not really in our experience, it's giving our team more leverage, but it's not necessarily replacing like key hires. You know, not saying it couldn't, I mean there's certainly some things it could replace, right? Do you want to share your obscure work workflow that you teased us on? Was that your thing you wrote down?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

No, um uh but I'll I'll talk on that. So uh I'm Grant, I run a company called Men of Action with Miguel. Uh we help guys build social circles. Um I am like absolutely obsessed with AI. I spend about 25 billion in tokens. Or not, I I use about 25 billion tokens a month. Uh I push about 60,000 lines of code a week. Uh so a lot of activity. Um what I use is a Hermes agent. So you know Hermes is better.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Well, Hermes is better for sure, from what I've heard.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah, it's a better alternative. Um and I have actually moved my entire workflow to Hermes. I exclusively live on Hermes. I don't check my email, I don't check Slack, um, I literally live in Hermes Agent. It's all on a it's all on Discord. So it's um literally like like I do all my media buying, all my copywriting, manage the whole team, all through Hermes. And it's it's very extensive. And I live on Discord, so I can switch apps and I can switch phones, switch computers, and um yeah, it's awesome. And so what what I've really learned is um giving AI more permission to do this stuff, like just giving it full access to your whole life. It has access to QuickBooks, has access to HubSpot, has access to the media buying, has access to Google Ads, meta ads, just like everything except the bank accounts, it has access to, and it can totally manage everything. It does everything in the business. And so Hermes becomes this gateway of ingestment of events that happen throughout the business, and then output is its actions. So I'm able to delete about $60,000 worth of labor from developers, ops teams, um, other sales ops activities and different software uh just by using a Hermes agent. I was gonna ask, do you know what your token cost is per month?

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Dude, I mean less than a thousand bucks.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Um you could probably get it cheaper by using an OpenAI subscription token for 200 bucks a month.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yeah, we know. Yeah, that might be what we're doing. Okay, cool. Yeah, I mean it's like when I say less than a thousand, to be honest, I haven't even seen token cost on the PL. So I'm like, but I think that's might be what he does. Yeah. And then he hard codes a lot of stuff too. You know, who knows? Maybe he's using some of his tokens. But yeah, I've seen um that one guy, Jack Roberts, he has a really good video on YouTube about how he's incorporated Hermes as a company brain, so to speak. I mean, that's basically what you've done, where you've given it access to everything. Um, you should make a Loom video. I'm gonna give you homework, dude. You should make a Loom video of how your shit works and put it in the fucking school group. So we can because it's like we're all like, yeah, that's cool. But you kind of need to see how it works. And then what I'm gonna do, which is the nice thing about having people on your team to just do this, is I just say, hey, should we do this? Okay, you do it. You know? Because I will tell you this: the fucking best thing about just hiring somebody full-time is I don't have to worry about trying to keep up with all the new shit. Because when I did OpenClaw, Hermes didn't exist. And then there was one before Hermes, and then Hermes came out, and Jimmy told me, Jimmy's also my plug on this shit, where he told me this is this is fucking the best right now. I was like, okay, great. And then I just, I'm like, yo, dude, you just you you and I'm you keep me updated on what is going on. Here's the because what you really want to focus on is the outcomes, right? And part of knowing the outcomes is knowing the technology available, but you can brainstorm with your developer on that. And it just makes it so much easier. Like I think everybody in this room can just afford one. Just get him South Africa. That's what I did. He's cheap.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yeah, it's such a fast moving industry, too.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Like, and this guy too, you could hire him fractionally too, by the way. Because they can just do like, I cannot give this guy enough shit to do. I'm like, and people are like, dude, I don't want to give him too much stuff. He's like, dude, I can do, he has like fucking nine monitors, and he's got like, so if you guys have codecs, so codecs fucks also, and their computer use feature is like way better than Claude's, and the remote feature is way better than Claude's. And so, like, Drew, she would, she uh does like 30k a month in her business, and it's like health and interventions and all this stuff, and she basically has her fathom. I just had my developer build this for her because she was like, I'm so busy, I'm like, Josh, just go fix it. So um she has like Fathom and Zoom, it all pulls into some sort of brain, and then Codex has access to that. At the end of every day, she just pulls up her screen because she has to like, like a medical person, right? Like, chart all the notes. And Codex just takes control of her fucking screen, charts all the notes, and you can shift the screen and still do other shit. So that could be something for your nurses too. I mean, just do this, and it's like chart the whole fucking thing. And there's things they can wear that will just record the entire interaction, you know, and so in person. I know that because that's how you QC home service salespeople. So um you could feed that in and then just computer use, fucking the whole thing. So in this next clip, one of my members asked me, how do I go from one to two million dollars a year all the way to $10 million a year? So what I did for this client is I basically broke down my five-step framework of how to go from zero to ten million dollars a year. And I broke it down into five distinct phases. And then I also at the very end give a phase six that's what I've seen, just in my own experience, scaling my own company to $36 million a year, but at the same time, seeing a lot of clients scale to five, $10 million a month plus. I give a phase six that basically explained $10 to $100 million and beyond based on what I've seen with clients. Here's the different levels, right? Uh, you're a lot, most of you guys are past level one. Level one's figuring out what the fuck you're doing. So that's like zero to 30k a month. I gotta find my offer, I gotta sell it 20 times, I gotta see if it works, I gotta get the fulfillment down. That's easy, right? The next phase is what is the next phase? Oh, yes. The next phase is figuring out one way to acquire clients at scale, right? I call it developing the optimal selling system. So that is essentially getting leads coming in. Like, what's my one way to generate leads repeatedly to where I have some sort of thing where I can increase inputs and get leads out in terms of outputs, right? And then also, how do I convert that interest systematically into customers, right? Like process SOP for leads, inputs, outputs, process for interest to conversion, client, customer, right? That's phase two. Phase three is is, and okay, so phase two gets you to like uh at least a million, right? I mean, it could be more. Phase three is kind of like this a year.

unknown 16:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Uh phase three is kind of like this uh one to three million-ish phase, which is I forget what I called it in a fancy name, but it's basically um redefining the product, right? So it's V2 of the product, which means like, okay, now we've had this, like we've probably doubled or tripled our client uh intake and our base. And so now what we have to do is like your product's gonna have a bunch of gaps that need filled, right? Because you're finally gonna have the data to know what you really should have built. Level one is like a hypothesis, think about it that way. And it's highly dependent on you, so you can just kind of like fix all the gaps yourself. Phase uh three is kind of like you're probably gonna hire your first coach or your first CSM, or if you're doing a done-free service, your first account manager, whatever it is, right? You're gonna hire your help for fulfillment. There's gonna be a little bit more of a system, there's a defined client journey, and then for B2B, you really wanna dial in your back end. For B2C, you can wait a little bit longer because for B2C, it's more front-end heavy. But um, you know, you want a back end and retention mechanism as well. And this is where like you've heard Hermosy talk about like really getting the LT the money model, the LTB to CAC ratio right before scale, right? So then phase four is okay, it's really the phase of more, where okay, we have basically now we're at a critical mass in the sense where this there's a system, right? Businesses are just systems, there's now a clear system, okay? So now we need to add more everything to the thing. And then at the top of that, we have to be the general manager for all the the entire company, right? Or if you're partners, you know, there needs to be very clear, like, hey, you're doing this, I'm doing this, okay? Like very clear division of responsibility and accountability, not we do everything together. And so that's kind of where you have to learn the skill of management, right? In hiring frontlines people, front lines is defined as client interfacing everything that the client interfaces with, right? So all your front lines people, but really like you're kind of the only manager for a while, and then you start to gradually hire managers, which gives you to phase four, which is that's where you have to hire man, you have to manage the managers, yeah, you know, and that's not a hey, we're in phase four, let's hire four managers. It's like a further, you know, you kind of like start with the stuff that takes you more time and is very low risk to hire. So like that's why, like, usually an ops person who can manage VAs, a controller who can manage the admin and whatever who does all your finances. Then it's like you might move to between fulfillment and sales. It just really depends on kind of your resources. I generally recommend usually fulfillments easier to do first and hang on to sales last. That's a little bit of bias speaking. But it depends. Like sometimes, like people, there's their second sales rep they hire is like the fucking perfect sales manager for them. And you know, you can just make that person. I wouldn't I wouldn't have a manager for two people, but you get what I'm saying. Like sometimes if you're kind of deciding between fulfillment and sales, if you have no potential and fulfillment and a ton of potential, you know, there's no hard rules, you're gonna promote that person first. And then the last one is really, or sorry, then you would do sales. The last one, in my opinion, is marketing, because you should know how to market your business, and it's not, I mean, dude, I ran all of our marketing of four million a month with one guy, just being it. I had a good system for it, but I just did it myself, you know, and it did not take that much time. So then, but eventually, I mean, that was the last thing I had to get rid of, and that was fucking hard. That one was a bitch. Well, the main thing was I did not realize how much money I had to pay. So this is like very common that happens in my business and everybody's businesses. Like you're trying to find the right person, and you're like, fuck, like this is I kept whiff, wiff, wiff. I was trying to find like an apprentice, you know, to take over the marketing. With, wiff, wiff, whiff, whiff. And then eventually I was like, you know what? Who would be this is the framework I just use all the time. Is okay, I gotta like really get clear, like limitations aside, who could actually fucking do this? And then I started to think of what that person would look like, and I realized I was like, oh yeah, that person needs to make like 40 to 60 grand a month. Then I found the person. And it was for my network, I just kind of got lucky, but but also this is a weird woo-woo thing, but there is like science behind RAS and stuff. Is once I actually got clear on who that person was, it was like I found the person. You know, it was just because what happened was Spencer he texted me for advice because he was having a lawsuit with his business partner, you talked about it yesterday. He's having a lawsuit with his business partner, and he was like, Yeah, like can I he was a client and he was like, dude, can I get advice? And I just thought, I'm gonna recruit you to be my CMO. And I was like, this is a perfect opportunity, you know. But I would only connect those dots, because like I think a lot of this stuff will actually happen more in your life than you think, but if you're not clear on like exactly the person who you want, you won't take advantage of the luck, right? So those are the fail, well, there's leaders of leaders, right? So once you have the executive team, at that point, you know, you're the CEO, right? And you know, what you're gonna do is you're gonna pretty much in the next phase, you're going to all you're gonna oscillate between just adding more inputs to the system overall, and you're gonna oscillate between that and then also having to go through phases of making the system more efficient. So what happens is is there's a certain point in every business where marginal cost equals marginal benefit. In other words, like we added more stuff and our profit remained the same, or sometimes just goes down. Now, sometimes that could be Temporary because like you added a layer of infrastructure and then you need to keep scaling and then you'll realize the cost later. But you know, at a certain point, any business, right, is gonna be there's an equilibrium point between marginal cost and marginal benefit, right? So you add more until you start to approach that and you'll really feel it. Some of it's objective, but like you'll really start to feel it, and you'll start to hopefully see it in your metrics as well. To where then you go, okay, what we need to do is increase what's called production function, which is really a fancy term for efficiency of your business. So then at that point, what we do is we essentially make our business, we we don't add more reps or more ad spend or more whatever, but we make our business more efficient. How do we do that? You know, better creative, improving the KPIs across show rate, your setter metrics, your show rate, I already said show rate, but your um closing rate, you know, price point, uh, back end, improving LTV to CAC, reducing refunds, reducing chargebacks, increasing AR cash collected on payments, um, you know, including higher level offers in a fractal nature to your highest value customers. And so what happens is we start to make our business more efficient, and then what that does is it shifts the equilibrium point rightward, right? And so we keep doing that again and again and again until the point where this is, I was telling the guys this yesterday. So this would be phase like six, or I maybe I gave phase, I forget where I was, but the next phase would be there's a point where we kind of shift between those two things enough. And then at a certain point, um you're gonna be at a stage like me where you're like, okay, I don't have any comparables of other businesses like my business model and my market that are as big as me or even close, right? Like my next biggest competitor is maybe like a mil. We're gonna do 36, right? So yeah, like I don't really have anybody to look to, right? So I kind of have a choice at this. And I also feel like in in terms of my metrics, like I've beat my head against the wall trying to improve shit as much as I fucking can. And while we still can add, I mean, quite frankly, we can still just add ad spend, add account managers, add salespeople, and we can scale, the rate in which it's doing that for several different reasons is really slowing down. So I kind of have two, you you kind of have like a two choices. Number one is okay, you have to look at businesses that are maybe adjacent or like yours that are much bigger, and you have to reconsider a change of design, right? So that could be like, okay, like this is what I initially did. And I was like, okay, is the recruiters that are doing over 100 million? Yes. What do they all have in common? They all are enterprise. I was like, okay, well, we got to do enterprise. And that's actually, and this is what I didn't realize is it's a I would have had to morph the entire business because it's a it's a fundamental change in design. How you acquire, attract, sell, and fulfill enterprise customers is fundamentally way different than what we do. And so it's like, I'm like, dang, like, I didn't, you know, I it feels like the same thing, but what I'm realizing is it's an entirely different fucking business. You know, like I might as well go start a health offer. You know, it's like a fucking whole different business, even though it's recruiting. You know, there's not as much carryover to that as I thought out of my current skill sets. So then the other kind of option is you sort of expand your current business by adding a different profit center, right? And the goal of that is to change as little about what you're doing as possible in that expansion, right? So effectively, there's kind of like two main parts of your business. There's what you actually do, and there's how you acquire clients. Okay. So anytime you do something new, because like if you know Hermosy's more better new, we're finally getting to new, right? Whenever you do something new, you want to follow what's called the one step away rule. This comes from Agora 1.5 billion. Is you you either want to keep the acquisition and change the business, or or keep the business and change the acquisition, right? So you could do same business outbound, right? Or you could do same business, I mean, in my opinion, that's that's what I thought about enterprise. I'm like, okay, same business enterprise. And I was like, yeah, it's a different way to acquire. It's like a fucking, it's a whole different thing. So, you know, the way I think about it is okay, I'm shifting and I'm I'm keeping as much of my business the same as possible, but into a different market. And it's becoming a kind of a different profit center. I'm not saying this is the way to do it, but I'm just saying this is kind of like how I'm thinking about things right now. If you're a business owner who has appointment setters or an outbound sales team, you're gonna want to hear what I have to say for a second. So a multiple eight-figure business owner texted me the other day, and when he started using $.io for the first time, his pickup rates went from 9% to 20%. So imagine doubling your pickup rates and ultimately the throughput of what your outbound salespeople and centers are gonna get, how does that impact your business? The answer is a lot. So if you want to check out $.io for a phone sales outbound system, just click the link in the description or just go to $.io. Now back to the podcast. So in this next clip, one of my clients asked, How do I actually recruit salespeople at scale? So I gave them five different criteria that I look for salespeople with in the entire recruiting process to build an internal recruiting system that consistently gets a player superstar salespeople. You're going to be looking at their one-minute interview. I mean, the group interview is the initial thing, right? So, I mean, you're you're gonna have disqualified people on there for sure. Uh, you're gonna be looking at their resume, you're gonna be looking at their one-minute video, you're looking at the Google form they filled out, and you're just kind of making a best guess. Really, what you're doing there is you're looking at essentially, you know, I look at um, I used to look at three qualities, I kind of look at more now, and I need to, I need to teach this to refine it in my head. So off the top of my head, you have um obviously their um, I call it specialized knowledge, but really it's like, do they have the have they done actually what you want them to do? Right. The way I look at that is they have they done a sales process that's like the sales process that I have, right? So like there's transactional sales, relational sales, enterprise sales. I want them to have that. I want them to have industry acumen so that they have like the actual kind of like, you know, knowledge they can like speak to uh the prospect. Like they're speaking the same language as the prospect, right? So um for your guys, you would want like people who they're not intimidated by real estate investing, you know, that type of stuff. Then the obviously buy-end to the mission, vision, and values. The other one is conscientiousness. So a great question is is just to ask what they do on Saturdays. You know, if it's like, oh, I like to get up and I like to work or whatever. I mean, it's not a DQ if they got like four kids, and like, dude, I gotta fucking, you know, whatever on. But you wanna like routines, people who have like strong routines, strong morning routines, like they get up and work out at 5 a.m. Like conscientiousness is essentially the degree of work ethic. And then the other one is disagreeableness. So that'll show up as like assertiveness and having like the balls to like, you know, reframe a prospect, right? Tell a prospect that they're wrong, stuff like that, right? So I look for those five things. Obviously, the personality ones is gonna be tough. I mean, you could ask some questions to reveal that. Disagreeableness would be tough. Conscientiousness, you could ask like a forum question about that. The other three you're gonna be looking at, and you wanna, I would still make it. I mean, group interviews, you can have such great volume. So I would still make it pretty loose to see who comes in. You know, if I had to add a six, which is like a tough one, also, how do you really because it's illegal to IQ test people before? But the number one predictor in career success, this is like, you know, the the you can't nobody talks about it publicly because it's like impossible without getting canceled. But really, the number one predictor in career success and so many different like success adjacent metrics is IQ, right? And so it's hard to actually assess it, but what I like to do is I'll give you an example, is I'll send them a call and I'll be like, hey, review this call. Obviously, this is a good call. I want you to write me a report on like what you learned from this call, what how did you think they did, what did you think about the prospects, what you think was interesting, whatever. When you can get somebody's thinking on paper, it's very indicative to their level of self-awareness in their IQ. That's the best test I've had. Like anything that is like a work-related project like that, because like you'll see, you'll have in depth to go on that. Yeah, you'll you'll have people who you're like, dude, is this seriously how you fucking think? Like, this is like like your brain is scrambled, dude. Whereas like, I don't want to toot my own horn, but you know, if you go through my Google Docs, you know, you can see how like very structured and like well put together they are and all that stuff. You know, I'm not saying I have super IQ, but you know, I might, right? But whatever. I want at least somebody, you know, though that's like something I want to look for. And really, it's processing power. The way it'll show up in management is you tell somebody once something and they just get it. Right? So, in other words, what does that actually fucking mean? They can deconstruct loaded phrases, right? So if you say, I have this guy, um your eye, he's he's so I I always tell him, you're so smart, dude. You're like a genius. But like I can just tell your eye, hey, I need this data to bucket, you know, this, right? And like there'll be a I don't have to deconstruct like these three words of exactly what they mean to make it crystal clear of exactly what it is. He just like gets it, or he'll ask it in clarifying questions, and then it's always done correctly. Like he's just the best, right? And so, anyways, those are kind of what I'm looking for from a broad scope, all the way from the application all the way to the interview. Now, in the group interview, you have to understand you're gonna know who you want to talk to within like fucking two seconds, right? You see everybody on gallery view, and you're like, okay, you know, and the beauty is that the human brain just works with comparison. And so it becomes very obvious who the real players are in that way. And so I'll go around and I'll just have everybody um, you know, say it's like, hey, what interested you about the pos basic shit, but like what interested you about the position and what about your work experience makes you confident you're gonna succeed in this role. Then you just you don't call on people, you just let people fucking go. Because who tends to go first, you know, typically good sign, right? Especially in sales, right? I wouldn't do this with like developers, right? But sales is great. CSM is great, Satter's great. Who goes first, right? Then also you'll see like a lot of people will copy the strongest person. So those people suck, right? And then, you know, some people, man, it's just like, dude, they get all freaked. It's like, dude, if you can't handle yourself in a group interview, bro, like how many in the group? Uh I'll like eight, but anywhere from six to ten is usually fine. Yeah. But basically, I'll ask three questions, and and I'll pre-frame this in the very beginning and say, hey, this is just a really brief get to know you. I'm gonna ask three questions, maybe four, and then after that, you'll receive correspondence about the next stage. We're doing a group interview because we have such a high demand for the position. Yeah, but really, like this just eliminates the I hopped on a 15-minute interview, 30-minute interview, and I'm like, in one minute, I'm like, why the fuck am I here up? You know? So then what you do is you message all those people, and you well, you message the people you like, and you say, Hey, I'm gonna let everybody leave, but you stay on. So then, I mean, 15 minutes in, I ax everybody. And then I have three people. And then what you could do is either continue with those three people a little bit deeper, or you just say, hey guys, so I blocked off the next 60 minutes. I'm gonna give each of you guys 20 minutes one-on-one. Who wants this slot? Who wants this slot? Who wants this slot? And then basically you're like, okay, well, here's the zoom link. Just come in at your time, I'll let you in in the waiting room. You stay, we'll just do it like this. And then so then you just batch out your initial one-on-ones right there, right? If you're not doing the one-on-ones, like I don't, obviously. The key is is to essentially um what was I gonna say? Fuck. The key, oh, I just watch the recordings, right? So, you know, for me, I don't interview the interviews people, but I watch the recordings, and frankly, if they're conducting the interview the right way, I pretty much have everything I need to know. And and and if I have any red flags, I'll just make them interview them again, right? So, um, and then you know, you move them to a pro like after that's like the initial screening. Uh, what else do we do? You know, what's really good is we have this good team meeting that I overview our mission, vision, and values and what they mean. We'll send people to that and then tell them to send us their feedback on it in a Loom video. They're the, you know, number one, that video really gets people fucking pumped. And number two, like so it sells them into it. Number two is it's it's interesting to see what they say, right? We'll do like that, hey, you know, um, show me like a, you know, analyze this, give me a report. Mock calls, uh, you could do it, but dude, it doesn't really work. It's it's a high degree of false positives. Some I have a manager who does them, and I have a manager who doesn't. And I kind of just like do it if you want, but take it with a grain of salt. The reason why is that you know, if you look at behavior, right, there's three steps of behavior. There's essentially what's called antecedent behavior and then consequence. Consequence essentially divides into positive and negative reinforcement and positive and negative punishment. This is like basic behaviorism. Well, what happens with mock calls is essentially the antecedent is the context in which triggers which behaviors are rewarded in that context. The thing is, a mock call is a fundamentally different context than a real call. So you are going to see different behaviors. So in this next clip, I talk about my information diet and how I basically consume information and then synthesize all the information I consume. But really, the question that I got asked that prompted me to go on this uh this tangent is essentially, you know, there's a lot of how-to information of how to go from zero to a million dollars a year, maybe even a million to ten million dollars a year. But when you're at my level or a lot of people that are doing multiple eight figures, there's no longer any step-by-step information or mentors or gurus who can tell you exactly what to do. So I really in this clip break down exactly what to do when you get into that phase where there's not really anybody concrete to model. The language you speak is a network effect, right? So that by the by the nature of the language you speak, because English is the wealthiest language, right? It's the wealthiest network of all the languages. So that's gonna dictate a lot of what's gonna happen in your life. Same thing with where you grow up, the high school you go to, the college you go to, uh, where you move to work. I mean, what's the most powerful, wealthiest network effect in the world? It's you know, Silicon Valley, right? For finance, it's New York, right? For uh now the new hub of finance is kind of Miami. For a lot of our industry, it's like Scottsdale, um Tampa a little bit, Miami for sure. Um, I mean, Scottsdale, Miami are like the two big ones, Austin, right, is another probably just as big. So here's the hack. It's not really like step one, step two, step three, but it's essentially you can do it, right? Like if you think creatively, you can do it, is you want to identify like whatever market you want to go into for boutique agency type stuff where you're really high priced, you want to get into like a network and become like the fucking guy, right? And so, you know, Eddie Malouv, he's a good friend of mine. And so, like, when I started, it's you know, he's I I it's this is probably I don't like saying this because it it feels stupid in some ways, but I almost think of him as like in my class. Like, you know, Sam and Hormozy and Alex Becker, they were kind of in the class above me when I was first starting, they were big. And then like me, Eddie, and some other guys, like we kind of all started at the same time, right? And so, you know, when I started joining a bunch of masterminds when I was in that phase, uh, which I'm still in masterminds, but um honestly, this is my favorite mastermind. I learned a lot of my own mastermind. Um, Eddie was at every fucking mastermind, you know, speaking at every mastermind. If he could sponsor masterminds, he sponsored masterminds, and he kind of got in with those people. And like he it's like he gets into this network. And the same thing happened to me to a degree, is like I there was another sales when we start, I started this offer, I had one competitor. And, you know, he just was complacent, frankly, uh, in my opinion, or maybe he had different goals, I don't know. And uh I kind of got into the I worked with Frank Kern, and then from that went to Dean, and then from that went to Tony, and then I went to a few events, and I like in the industry, because I just started meeting all these people, I just became, we were doing like 500 grand a month, all the fucking referrals, dude. Yeah, like so I just kind of got to be the guy, like I was I owned the category in the industry from like a networking and word of mouth standpoint. Like I was always, oh, you gotta talk to this guy. Right now, everybody just I've spent so much on ads. I mean, you just know, but you see what I mean? Yeah, so you know, you gotta figure that out for you uh in what works there. If you want to get big, you can't get told what to do. And also you have to have like the way I like to think about it is I take in a massive amount of information. Like my information consumption is is, I mean, I don't know, it couldn't be much higher. Like, I don't know many people who consume as much information as me. But I also have like a little bit of like ego to where I don't just take anything at face value and I tend to question everything, you know. So I always ask, is this true, not true, or do I need more information? You have to have like the information coming in, but then a clear boundary of what you take in, and then you have to trust like your a little bit of your own ego and arrogance of how you think it should be, you know, and that's why I don't have an issue sometimes with like somebody who learns some of my stuff, I might say something, and they're like, Yeah, you know, I'm gonna take 80% of that, but I'm gonna fucking switch it up, you know. And and a lot of times that's you know, wrong because the best available tactics are the best available tactics for a reason. But then one out of 10, two out of 10 times, fucking they kind of do this new thing and it's like fucking nuclear. And then I'm like, hey, what did you do? You know, like and they're like, oh yeah, we switched this little thing. Like I'll give you an example. So I was telling you about this guy, the sports kid guys, they went from 30k a month in our program to a million five a month, they do half a million a month profit, I think, maybe more. And great guys, and um they so the first thing was is, you know, I generally, because most clients are not good enough at copy to do low-ticket and automated webinar upsell funnels, even though they're they're beasts of a funnel, they're just not skilled enough, you know. Like, I keep them on a so I keep them on a call funnel. I'm like, hey, get your call funnel to 400 to 500, then maybe explore that. If you can get it to 800, get it to there, then maybe explore that, right? So, first thing, they were doing their call funnel, it wasn't working. I was like, well, you guys need to do this better, this metric's off, this metric's off. And they're like, dude, we really want to do this fucking. We do we think this automated webinar is gonna work. And I was like, well, look, I wouldn't recommend it, but if you're gonna do it, here's how to do it. They do it, fucking works, right? They crush it. And and these guys, too, I think I did tell them, I was like, generally I wouldn't recommend this, but you guys are kind of like, I could see you guys being good at marketing, so like, you know, go for it. Then, you know, the big way I used to do the automated webinar was we would liquidate 40 to 50, 60 percent. And then um, we would upgrade those people, but the real revenue came from just calling the opt-ins who didn't even watch, and we just sell them directly high ticket, right? So we would do 300 sales a month, 60 would be 2K to 10k upgrades, 240 would just be calling the fuck at opt-ins who didn't even watch. And we would we didn't they didn't even know there was 2K. We'd just be like, yes, 9,800. So then when we said on the webinar that it was one time only, like it is one time only, because you probably didn't even see it anyways. So we would just sell those people right to 98. And so that's what I told them to do. And they were like, well, you know, we don't think that's the right move. Or maybe they tried it. And they're like, you know, we're gonna change it. And I was like, no, you know, you should, because I'm like, I people can only tell you what's true in their own life and their own situation. So I'm like, well, that's not how I would do it, whatever. And then they invented this thing. I don't want to say they invented it, but like, I haven't seen anybody else do it. Where what they do is they took the same thing, but then they called, uh, they called all the opt-ins, they have they sell the closers sell them 2K, and then they go through the same onboarding process and do 10K. You know, isn't that interesting? It's very different. And then as soon as they did that, million a month. Hey, if the way you sell your product or service is through phone sales, you need to stop using booking systems like OneSub County, iClose, and other booking systems that aren't designed specifically for a phone sales approach or a phone sales team. So we at SalesKick just launched a new calendar and booking system that'll decrease your cost per book call because it's conversion rate optimized specifically for call funnels, whereas most other calendar systems are meant for corporate all-purpose booking and it'll increase your show rate. So we've had clients see 30 to 100% increases in their show rate because our calendar system is specifically designed for call funnels and other funnels that are high volume sales call booking funnels. And the software does so much more. It's really the only product designed specifically for sales teams with inbound booking systems. So if you're interested, go to saleskick.com, check it out. Now back to the video. Now, in this clip, the question's pretty simple. I got asked how I manage my time running a $36 million year company. So I basically broke down how I structure my schedule and divide it between deep work and meetings. What I found is for the rest of my week, I used to try to do my calls at the end of the day backfilled, but then like, you know, but but I also like to attend some sales meetings, and that's in the mornings, and that means like I have two bookends of calls, and I didn't like that very much. And so you could either do backfilled meetings for any meetings you're gonna take, you start at the very end of the day and work in reverse. I actually do it in the reverse. So I start it at the beginning of the day and then I do meetings and then I'm done. Because like you guys know how it is, like even if like you're working on something that's like deep work and you got like one meeting later in the day, you're like, fucking fucking hate this meeting, like fuck this person, you know. It's like it's like can I cancel this shit? And it's like I don't mind meetings. Like my thing is is people are like, are you more of like a want to work on stuff deep work person or a meeting person? I like both, you know. I don't mind. What I don't like is trying to do both at once. So I I I I do really try to segment it as much as possible. So I'll do some meetings. I like to attend a sales meeting because I'm really good at sales training and nobody can train them like me. I mean, my my my like like today, like I'm not worried. I could leave a month and my sales managers, they're probably gonna be fine, and frankly, the team would probably perform just the same. I've just found I enjoy doing it, and it it makes me happier in a weird way. Like my coach was like, dude, I think you should just do it even though like it you don't need to. So I'll end up doing like three a week. If I'm busy, I just won't do it, right? Then I mean I have the the media meeting two days a week in the morning, and then I have what else do I have in the morning? I have like a group call, you know, basic stuff like that. So then what do I do during deep work? Well, what you can always do is produce more content. So like that's kind of like the floor is if I if I ever run out of shit to do, I can always do content. I can also always do QC if I want to do QC. But really, my floor now, it used to be my floor was just QCing shit. Fulfillment, this, that, whatever. Now the floor is like I just do content. Then anything above that is like Tuesdays, I usually have like, like if I gotta approve comp structures, if I gotta redo a departmental incentive program, if I have to look at all the expenses line by line, look at the financials, look at the PLs, like any like ad mini stuff that this just kind of flows up to the owner. You know, I'm gonna do that on Tuesdays, get it all done. So, like, because like what happened on Mondays is I'll come in with Tuesday, and my to-do list will be like 15 things for the week, but like realistically, like 13 of them take 30 minutes or less. And then two of them are like two plus week projects. So I clear the runway on Tuesday, then sometimes I even have time Tuesday, but at least on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, that's usually like the major projects, which is either gonna be the content or is usually a strategic, like right now I'm launching the HVAC vision, right? So I'm coming up with like the offer, I'm coming up with the sales process, I'm coming up with the marketing, I'm coming up with how we're gonna do recruiting. I did all the fucking research. I created documents to teach my entire team about the industry. I have a pod of people who are only gonna service this because it's gonna be its own thing. So I'm architecting all of that, right? And and frankly, if I wasn't doing that, I would be doing way more content. I mean, the content would be even better than it is now, you know? It's kind of crazy because it's like the content's done really well, it's not even my top priority. It's like if I didn't have this podcast thing, I'd be fucked. Because like one video a week, at least at least at the quality that I want to do it, it'd be my whole week. So this next clip's gonna give a tactic of how we upsell high-ticket clients into our mastermind on the onboarding call. But the broader lesson of this entire thing, which I'm gonna talk about in this clip, is how sometimes we forget, even when we're really advanced, to just do the fundamentals. And how essentially some of the most advanced people, quote unquote, in the industry are just the best at flawlessly executing the fundamentals that we all as entrepreneurs know. So we had this guy on our team, he's good. He's a new account manager. And he just decided that he was gonna start upselling people into Borderroom just off the off the onboarding call. And we've thought about it before, but we were kind of like, oh, you know, it's only for certain people, if it's really right. This dude fucking sold 200 grand in a month off the onboarding call. And so we I was like, hey, how'd you do it? And he was like, Oh yeah, all I do. So what enabled this was kind of a good timing of having him come on. Then what we also did is we set up we stopped having the account managers do the initial onboarding. So we have an onboarding specialist do like just an orientation. And then they really hype up and build authority with the account manager, and then the account manager, like who you guys work with, then they do the real onboarding call that's mainly like the initial coaching and the implementation pathway because all the admin stuff's out of the way. So that little separation from sale to pre-onboarding to major onboarding to main onboarding, that kind of like let the prospect diffuse a little bit. And so it didn't seem like we're pitching and then we're pitching again, right? And so that happened, and then at the same time, this guy came on who just wants to sell fucking, you know, he's like he just sees red, you know? And dude, he does like 220 grand off the onboarding call in one month. And so I'm like, hey man, what did you do? And it's like basic. It's like not, you know, it's like, hey, did uh the salesperson tell you about boardroom? No, no, dude, that's crazy because you're totally qualified for it, whatever, you know. Like, I mean, it's like that's like the conversation, I'm not even fucking kidding. And he's at 200 grand, so I'm like, I'm like, holy shit. I was like, if all of you guys do what he did, we're gonna like double the whole company. And like, so, but that's a fundamental, you know? Don't we know that when people buy, that they're more likely to buy more shit, right, when they buy? You know, you know that, you're running a low ticket funnel, you have upsells. It's like we all know that for whatever reason it had a brain fart to where I thought, oh, if it's 18k or 25k on the front end, well, you know, they're not gonna buy anything else. No, yeah, they'll buy 100k, dude. Like we've had people upgrade to 90k off of sometimes like 18k come in, credit it, roll for it, 90k or 90, yeah, 98, 99, whatever it is. Piff. How's that for LTB to cack? And then they're like, and then the other thing is too, is then obviously like the person comes in so much more fucking committed. They're thinking about a year time frame, not 90 days. I was like, Your Gore, please, for my birthday, just make everybody do this. Please. But like, isn't that crazy? It's this fundamental, yeah, buyer in heat principle. You probably heard it in a marketing book from the 1970s. I mean, it's like the most basic thing. I didn't do it for seven years. I was like, what the fuck? Because I, you know, I did it with the with a webinar. 2K, 3K purchase to 10K. Okay, yeah, that's we can do that. But somehow it breaks it 18k. I mean, like, you know, it doesn't make any logical sense, but I just was like, oh, you know, once it's high ticket, that's it. No, like you go 10k or you know, you could go 12k to legitimate like 50K. Not with everybody, but with people who can pay, yeah. And so, you know, but the issue is is okay, well, why not why not sell it on the initial call? I have found, just in my experience, especially in like a 90-day program mindset, is that once you get past 25k, um conversions and um the sales cycle goes way longer, right? There's ways to mitigate that. Like I've seen people sell 50k stuff on the front end that's a year, but then they usually have like a guaranteed opt-out period for the people who are skeptical, so that's a little bit different. So you could do that too. But um, I just find like with my sales guys, especially, when I give them higher shit to pitch, that's all a pitch. Because they just want they want bank, you know? And so then I'm like, and they'll they'll be so excited, they'll be like, I got fucking, you know, three 50k deals in my pipeline. And I'm like, are they gonna close? You know, like they don't close. Oh, so he was so excited. It's just once you get above there, it starts to become a little bit more. Oh, I gotta, you know, talk to this person, I gotta talk, I gotta talk to my team now. So one of the biggest questions I get asked, and I'm gonna talk about in this next clip, is how do I actually identify what my constraint actually is? And then what do I do in terms of executing to fix it? So I talk about my framework of how to do that in this clip. So like I always tell the account managers, clients aren't stuck. I mean, I say clients, but really it's all of us. We're not stuck because we know what the problem is and we don't know how to fix it. We're usually stuck because we don't know what the problem is or we're trying to fix the wrong problem, right? So, like if you ever had a time in your business where it's like you've been plateaued for like six months, it's usually because it's not because you know what the problem is and you don't know what to do, most times. It's because you don't know what the problem is, or more likely, you are trying to fix the wrong problem, right? So I always say the more aware we can become, uh I told my team this, I tell our clients this, tell my account managers to tell you guys this, the more aware we can become of the problem, the more the solution becomes obvious, right? So, how do you actually become aware of it? It'd be easier if I could show you, I mean, I have the training on it basically. It's in the first week of the training. It's called diagnosing and fixing constraints, right? That that is probably the best, like, you know, that's 60 minutes on this one topic. So obviously, it's easy for me if it's a growth thing to just look at all the metrics across ad all the way down to basically CPA, AOB, LTB to CAC, and backend conversion. And against the benchmarks I know in the industry for B2C, for B2B, for low ticket, for this, for that, I can just, I can just kind of identify, okay, here's all the like let's say it's a growth thing. Well, here's all of the things out of KPI, but then essentially I look at the highest impact thing that also gives me the most asymmetric advantage. So, like, and this is how I will I'll talk to a client. I forget if I was talking to um Mr. Fung about this, but um it was you you were the other guy I talked to that day. So I'll give you an example is like I I think it works like this. No, it works upstream. So if you can um like show rate, right? If show rate and close rate are both bad, if I can improve show rate, I might be thinking about this in reverse, but you guys get what I'm trying to say. If I can improve show rate, that's a higher impact overall on the revenue than close rate, I think, right? Yeah, it's it's you want to go upstream. Yes. It's been a long day. I I didn't sleep well. But you know, sometimes it's like, man, dude, like your close rate sucks. Like if you just improve that, you double your fucking business. And so, and I also try to think about things that are asymmetric. In other words, what is the downside? So, because like there's always a downside to changing things, you know? And even if the change is net positive, you might get worse before you get better, but that's not with everything. So I'll try to identify things that I'm like, what is the highest impact thing that we could do? And like, has no risk, you know? So, like oftentimes, like, you know, I'll find stuff with clients with marketing performance where they're just using like all the wrong tech. You know, I mean, these are not your level, but like 100 to 200 grand a month people, they'll like be hosting their fucking VSL on Vimeo. And I'll be like, dude, there's no risk to change it to Vitalytics. And that sometimes can make a funnel work versus not work. Right? So that's how I think about it from there. I mean, that's all demand side constraints. And you know, supply side, I mean, it's pretty obvious, right? Like if you're running out of CSMs and you need to hire more CSMs, I mean, you probably know, like, most of you guys probably aren't stuck because of fulfillment bottlenecks, I would imagine. Unless you're doing like a done-for-you service. But even then, I don't find that to be as hard. In our business, it's a, you know, there's a reason everybody says it's a marketing, marketing and sales constrained business, because it is. You gotta have a good product, you should get referrals, but like, I've never worked with a client or talked to anybody in our industry that does services or coaching or a course or whatever that has a K factor above one. Doesn't exist, right? Software, yeah. There's people in our industry. No. Not, you know, services, it's never that. But obviously, if you have referrals, it does help. So because of that, it always ends up being, you know, a marketing and sales game, which kind of sucks in some ways, but it's also, you know, whatever it is, what it is. Yeah, I like marketing and sales, thankfully. So, but you know, it does suck because not all like the best product doesn't always win, you know, just how it is. It doesn't mean you shouldn't have a good product. Because if you have a bad product, I mean your reputation can compound and all these things. I mean, it's it's not good. And also every referral you get is such it's a huge help on lowering your overall gross company CAC. But I mean, you can check out that video. I I look through it on those metrics, and then I know kind of the baselines of everything, and then I look at highest impact and also um best asymmetry of risk, and then I will back it out from there. So, in this final clip, I could ask really how do I create and reverse engineer a sales process from scratch? So I talk about it in this clip, as well as really the idea that there's two sales you have to make on every sales call and identifying that first and what those sales are, everything from the sales process actually stems from there. Buying psychology is the same if it's fucking written or it's fucking phone. People, it's it's brain, you know, people buy the same. So uh then what I do is I reverse engineer it from there, right? And so that'll inform the type of questions that I ask. That'll inform um how I'm gonna present and basically, you know, tell them what we have to offer, and so on and so forth. The way I think about the sales process is there's two sales you make on every sales call. There's the sale on the idea or the thesis that we already talked about, and then there's the sale on the product. 80% of the energy is not trying to sell them on working with you, it's trying to sell them on the right way of thinking that leads to working with you. Does that make sense? So, like again, if I'm selling RCA, all right, if I can get if I can have the conversation and get them to believe head over fucking heels, that dude, the easiest way for you to get to 20K a month and work remotely is to drop all your Amazon FBA bullshit and just just do fucking, you know, sales, sales, high-ticket sales. Then like naturally, if I can get them to believe that, them buying my product is gonna be a byproduct of that belief. Does that make sense? So, like, this is stuff like you kind of you know, everybody a lot of people know this from Russell Brown saying, Oh, I read the book, nobody does this shit. You know, it's like one of those things, you hear it, nobody really does it. And I've just never seen it. And I tell people this still won't do it. It's in the program. I tell people this in my program. Nobody does it. So if you want to be elite, do it. You know, this is something that I do that, like I'll like I'll talk to like the best marketers in the industry, and I'll explain what I just explained to you, and they'll be like, yeah, bro, like you're you know, the even the best marketers don't even do this stuff. They're like, I do it, but like you're the only person who's a non-marketer I've ever talked to that does it. I don't know why anybody wouldn't do it. Makes you a lot of money. You know, but you you'll see, like, it's kind of like what I said with content. It's like once you know what's required to actually win, you know, it's crazy because you'll just be like, wow, nobody fucking tries. You know, this is why like I really try to master every part of the business. You know, I'm not I don't have a software business, okay? I I couldn't master software. I'd have to really have the right partner and depend on them. But in our types of business, man, you can master everything. It ain't that hard. I don't care if you're more of a creative person, logical person, whatever. You c i it's not rocket science. Like you can do everything. You know, that's the be and that that's also why this business has a little bit of entry. If you enjoyed this podcast, you're also probably gonna like this podcast I also did recently that you can check out by clicking the screen right here.