Tottenham, Messi and England - World Cup Edition 2

⚽ **Tottenham fans, can you relate?** 

After years of waiting, Tottenham is finally making moves in the transfer market, and it feels surreal! 

🔥 **Tag a fellow Spurs supporter who needs to hear this!** 

We’ve seen the club struggle with transfers in the past, often waiting until the last minute, but this time feels different. 

The signing of Van Henk is exciting, and for the first time in ages, there’s a glimmer of hope with an actual bid for Tonali! 

But the big question remains: will we attract top talent without European football? 

As Arsenal fans have learned from us, investing in the right players is crucial for success. 

What are your thoughts on Tottenham’s new strategy? Are we finally turning a corner? 

Maybe this is the start of something special for Spurs! 

**Let’s discuss! 👇** 

Also we discuss the great players we've seen so far in this exciting World Cup, including the mercurial and magical Messi, the brilliant Mbappe, the prolific Harland, as well as our very own World Class players Bellingham and Kane.

 In addition we discuss the England Croatia game and the upcoming England Ghana Game. 

And finally we  discuss who we feel is going to win the golden boot. 

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Full episode link in bio! 

#TottenhamHotspur #Spurs #FootballTalk #TransferNews #PremierLeague

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hello, welcome to the second ever Football Foes and Phantom Worlds podcast with myself Austin Barkley, a Tottenham fan and fellow PE teacher and Arsenal fan, talk all things football. Now, as you can see, I'm wearing a Tottenham shirt today. The reason being is I'm a little bit shocked, happily shocked, I have to say, that Tottenham are actually putting their money where their mouth is a little bit. It always uh remains to be seen with Tottenham and when it comes to transfers, but in the past we've been waiting like to the end of the transfer market to get players over the line. But it seems like with Deserbi and what what happened in terms of the relegation threat uh when he got relegated, obviously, that they are actually trying to do something about it, and really pleased that they got Van Henk from Holland, uh sorry, from Brighton, Holland player, but quite staggered to be honest, that we've actually made an 18 million bid for Tanali. Um yeah, that's very exciting for myself as a Tottenham fan. Not sure that he will come to Tottenham, bearing in mind we've got no European football that we can offer him. I guess Newcastle haven't as well, but I'm sure there'll be some other clubs with European pedigree that are playing their next um in Europe next season that will probably want to buy him. So, what are your thoughts on Tottenham making all these uh transfers? I mean, all this noise to get 16, it's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Incredible. I mean, look putting in rivalry to one side best stadium in Europe, if not world football, up there. You know.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

I would definitely agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

So I think if you're a football player wanting to be surrounded uh by the best facilities, they've argued one of the best training grounds. Um you know to Zerby is a very good manager, he's got great pedigree. Um my concern to someone like De Zerbi is he's quite volatile and and you either marine, you love him or hate him. Uh probably from uh a structural perspective as as Tottenham and the board and whatnot. They're certainly putting all their eggs in his basket, which is great. Probably the first time since Pochettino they're properly looking to back a manager. Um not that I feel like they backed Pochettino as much as they've off the back of obviously getting to the Champions League final when they did. Um I do believe yeah, I do believe that they've actually invested in a couple more players um after that. I mean you were there, so you know how. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

I think we we've just we discussed that before, didn't we, at that time. Obviously, you and me are working together, um, and that's one of the conversations I as a Tottenham fan had in terms of I feel like where Tottenham were with Portuccino getting to the Champions League final and the set success he was having in terms of always in the Champions League, coming second a couple of times. That Arsenal with Arteta have done the same thing, but with Arsenal, they kind of learnt from Tottenham, I reckon, and thought, do you know what we're gonna back Arteta and we're gonna go over try and get over the line and push forwards towards like winning and winning a Premier League, which I feel that they've done really well for Arteta and you've backed him, brought the plays he wanted, spent the money that was required. And when we look back at Tottenham, we were in the same position, and the ball for whatever reason, whether that was because we were paying for the ground and it was we didn't have the money, I don't know, but we were in that position and we could have pushed a bit more in terms of the transfers, and I think we could have been potential Premier League champions like yourself.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

I'd absolutely agree with you. I said it as I said, those um how many years ago now it was when we were sitting there back in Cordon together, um, as much as it hurt to say. Uh I I couldn't agree more. You know, Tottenham were flying the crest of a wave, and they weren't that far away, really, probably to become a very dominant team. But with you know, when you got Taynson, um Deli Alley flying at that time, you know, those three alone uh an outstanding, you know, uh attack threat. And you know, you add in Supermus of Dembele, who who for me is one of the best midfielders to have ever played Premier League football, and and probably one of the most underrated as well. Um and and there were you know, there were many others in that Tottenham team. But I just you know, look, Tottenham you'd you'd like to think of the Tottenham fans, they they can't be any worse after two years of neglecting league football, really, you know. I I I respected Ans Posterkoglu in in openly saying it's all about European football, and let's be brutally honest, he didn't really have another choice because it was the only thing they were they were doing okay in. Um but you know, they are they are so far behind the eight ball in terms of their score. We are man, we are. And you're unlucky with injuries, but then let's be brutally honest, loads of teams are unlucky with injuries. We can't when you're playing elite football, you know what something Arteta's stressed enough. Um we'll talk about Arsenal at some point in in a future pod. But he he's really, really you know, focused on that that word squad and squad depth, and you look at the great teams, they have that. Um and Tottenham barely get a team out. Like, let's be critical. The irony is the best sorry, I was just gonna say the best young player in like um Mikey Moore up at Rangers is Fryan or Buscovich out in Lona um Germany, and it it just seems I don't know, like the football side's been neglected, but the business side has been really focused on, which is great, if that money that you make from the business side is reinvested into the squad.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Exactly, mate, and I think I mean after the season, the last two seasons in terms of the league is just nowhere near good enough for Tottenham. I mean, the year before there was no jeopardy really because the three teams were obviously pretty much relegated way before Tottenham kind of well, Big Angels decided to um just concentrate on Europe, which to be fair, I don't I don't blame him. Um we were never pushing up the league. We had a few injuries then as well. Um and I think a lot of Tottenham fans, after he won that trophy for us, because it's been so long since we won a trophy, we wanted him to stay on. We felt we felt they deserved to have that extra year. Um, and for the Tottenham Ball then to get rid of him, and sort of the thing with the Tottenham Ball for me is that when we finished 17th under Big Angst, they they turned around and said, 'Cause I watched um Gary Neville done a like a an interview on Netflix or on YouTube with Daniel Levy. And Levy was saying that with the squad that they had, they should have done a lot better. Which said to me that Daniel Levy doesn't know a lot about football if he thought that squad was going to do a lot better in the league and compete for a major European trophy as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

It wasn't big enough, was it?

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Simple as it nowhere near enough for enough. Nowhere near big enough. And to be honest, not good enough, really. But there was uh we were okay if we didn't have any injuries. And you saw like this season with the amount of injuries that we've had, that we were totally decimated in terms of the attacking players. Pretty much all of our best attacking players, like Madison, Kulovetsky, uh, them two especially, and then obviously Kulos got injured. Um we had no creativity at all and experience in those top positions. Solanke's been injured so much since he signed. Richardlesson, I feel gets a bit of unfair press. He comes in, he doesn't always play, but he does he does come in with some goals.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

He's got a heart, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Um yeah, he's got a lot of heart, he's got a lot of heart. Um, but yeah, I just wanted to start with Tottenham. Um, it's maybe what happened in terms of us nearly getting relegated. If De Zerby hadn't come in, we would definitely get him relegated, without a doubt. Absolutely. Um Thomas Frank was a little bit out of his depth without being too critical of him. Uh Eagle Tudor should never have been put in that appointment. So for for them to actually finally get De Zerby in that position, and then for him to keep us up, he's in a great position, isn't he? He's got a lot of power now.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

They've gone, you know, probably you've got a couple of years, we're gonna back you. It's now up to you to to bring what we believe. And I think a lot of you know, a a lot of um football fans will agree, you know. He's he's he's a manager that I think um other managers look at and it just that they there's a belief that he's a good manager, so therefore their teams are gonna be maybe better sometimes than they were. It almost masked over the cracks a little bit. Um and and look at the end of the day, all you ever want in in any work in life, any football team is confidence, right? You want to be backed and you want to feel like um you're part of something with a Zerby. Yeah. He's you know on the on the sideline. I mean, that was that was a that was a really vociferously negative crowd for a long time. I mean that stadium was not that that stadium was toxic.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

It was toxic for a while.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

You know, yeah um and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:33

But I will say to Tottenham, the fans are brilliant. They just I think they just had enough with the way that again, don't want to be too critical of Thomas Frank, but the way that the team was playing, the way it was set up, kind of the things that he was doing, what he was saying, and then it was just I mean, Tottenham fans are as like Arsenal fans, Chelsea fans, are paying the most amount in terms of season ticket prices.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

London Texas.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Yeah, the cost of going to the games cost an absolute fortune.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

So And you're gonna watch that over the last couple of years.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Exactly, exactly. And when you can't win a game at home, we w what do we win after Christmas? Two games at home.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Two games all season, one it's all season.

SPEAKER_03 10:16

It's just that's it shouldn't be happening.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

This it's not it's not good enough. It isn't good enough.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

It wasn't nowhere nowhere near good enough. Nowhere near good enough, absolutely, but it is good to see. We brought in now Van Henk, obviously, um the Liverpool left back.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah, you brought some SCM Robertson, uh Van Hecker. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

So really good players. At least we've got some yeah, got some experience brought in as to play at the back, leadership, compete for places.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

I mean it's got to be Romero's right now. I mean, I know me and you have a bit of a uh a debate about Romero, but he's a he's a joke. Like he he is not captain material, he's not. I I just I think he's let you down more than he's won you games. I think when it gets to the heat of a battle, you know, he often hides, get himself sent off. And I do believe there's intention on it. Um there was always the old discussion, wasn't it, about Mesa Hosel always missing the Newcastle game or Neymar always missing Christmas because he's back in Brazil uh parting with whoever. But I I just yeah, I I think in Van Hecker and Selesi they've got two very good, um, you know, solid centre backs that play no wedding as well as once, reliable, they play games, they're very, very rarely injured. Um, and yeah, I think the Wright's on the wall for Romero. He'll probably go and have a half-decent World Cup uh again, and he'll probably end up with Simeoni at Real Madrid, uh athlete coming through, sorry, and you know, Tottenham I I actually don't think we'll regret or be too disappointed he's gone, and I think they'll be better for it.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Yeah, I mean I've always defended Romero. I I'd love I do love him, I love his passion, but you're right in a lot of ways this um in terms of some parties getting sent off like he has been has absolutely killed us. Um always at key touch and then yeah, so but I do I do love Romero, I do love him, but maybe you're right in terms of it's probably time for him to be.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

It's a refresh. You're probably looking at needing over the coming years probably 12 to 14 new players. Lucas Bergwell last night saying, you know what, I want I want to move on. I think that's a that's a real kick in the teeth for Tottenham. But then on the flip side, I think there's that false expectation in players sometimes. Maybe they get a bit ahead of themselves. You know, I think Bergwell's talented, but the proofs and the pudding, you know, what have we really done to justify saying to some like the Zerbi, I want out. Um you know, I'm not sitting there saying his quality isn't there. Um I just haven't seen it regularly enough. And that's what when you when you think about some of the the uh the money on the table or the the prices for some of these players these days, it just seems disproportionate with life, let alone the quality of these players. Um yeah, and then you look back in the in years gone by and you think, you know, what were some of these what were some of our elite players in the Premier League? Your Thierard, your Lampard, your Homeries, your Burkhamps, um you know, how much would they be worth in the modern day?

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Absolutely, mate. That'd be like four or five hundred million, wouldn't they?

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Yeah, and plenty of players, you know.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Yeah, no, I totally agree. Right, okay. Um, I think we'd draw a line under there about Tottenham. Just wanted to bring that up because obviously it's a little bit more exciting for us um doing this early transfer business. But obviously, we've had now our first round of World Cup matches, we've seen all the teams, and what's been really exciting the guy I think the games have been really good, the ones that I've been able to watch. Phenomenal. But I think one one of the best things, other than obviously the underdogs as well, really competing. Um, if we look at Kate Verdi again, another an amazing performance against Uruguay.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Two draws.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

But for me, so far about the World Cup, the big players have come to play, haven't they? We've seen um Haaland get a couple, Mbappe get a couple, um obviously Arkane, brilliant, got a couple, um Messi got magical Messi got a hat trick. Probably get another one. Um scored a goal yesterday. So this is I think this is really exciting because when you watch the World Cup, you want to see the the big players, don't you? And obviously Bellingham as well scored, which is brilliant again for England. Um so what is that what's really impressed you so far about what you've seen?

SPEAKER_01 14:36

I I think you know as much as there's been so much on the the financial side of tickets and and whatnot, the crowds are turned up, haven't they?

SPEAKER_02 14:46

They have been amazing. The passion amazing the camaraderie.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

You know, there doesn't, you know, I'm hoping, you know, there hasn't been a lot of um negativity out there in terms of uh things that have happened away from the stadiums, but in terms of the media, there doesn't seem to have been a lot that's been portrayed other than the positive, you know, vibes amongst the fans. It's almost been rugby-esque. Um that real camaraderie, that real spirit. I saw uh uh a video the other night on X where uh a Spanish um a Spanish and a Kate Birdie fan swapping shirts, and it was just sheer passion and sheer joy of being able to be at a World Cup. You know, and we we said last uh last time in the pod, didn't we, about you know we were a little bit out. Is it the 4018? Is it gonna be a positive? Is it gonna be a negative? I haven't seen anything but a positive so far with it. You know, I think it's racist just given this these teams an opportunity. Some of these players that I've you know that we've probably never heard of before and possibly won't ever hear of again, you know, the zina, the goalkeeper, and um it's it's just uh it's they've made it they've made themselves immortal in their countries, haven't they?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Like coverty, 500,000 people, and like those players have absolutely unbelievable. It's just can't believe yeah, incredible.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

The goalkeeper was it for he was followed by about 20,000 people on X, and he's now followed by 6.2 million. It's just you know, this is what it's all about, and it's putting your name on the map, it's making yourself a brand almost. You know, that that's gonna give him like you said, it'll go down in folklore in you know, in the history of the World Cup, and you know, that sets of his family, his country heaven.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

Isn't it those players are never gonna have to buy a drink in Cate Verde again, are they?

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Um, but yeah, the crowds definitely turned up in terms of the fight. I think you're at the Ned, you know, you want to see the best players as well. And often, you know, these big competitions, um, you know, especially early doors, they they take a little time to get into the competition. Yeah, but it's just been goals, isn't it? You know, and I know we'll talk about uh Cristiano Ronada in a bit, but yeah, those players have turned up, come to play. They want to make a they really want to stamp their authority on this competition.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Yeah, what what's really like impressed me as well, the games have been quite open, haven't they? Like there's been a lot of attack in play. To be fair, a lot of the teams defensives don't look they look quite vulnerable. Every team, like even the top teams like France, ourselves, Holland, um, all the other teams that are we consider to be like the top six or eight that are gonna potentially win the World Cup, they have to be got out of the back, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 17:28

But do you do you think that's down to um obviously higher, you know, the quality is higher in the attacking thirds than it is uh in the defensive side of the game, or do you think actually teams have come out here and gone, we've got a bit of a free pass, we've got three teams that can get through rather than four. We can probably be a bit more expansive in our play, maybe go man to man at the back, you know, and and get more players uh going forward. Because I know me and you were chatting last night, and what Tootle said, we're letting that goal with seven players behind the ball.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

So what's the point? Exactly. I mean we'll talk a little bit more about the England Croatia game a bit later. Um, but what you're saying about Tuchel, um, yeah, I guess we'll talk about him as well, but I think he's been a bit of a revelation. I know it's only one game, so we can't get too carried away. But what we saw, I thought was uh really, really optimistic. I think it got us all a little bit excited, didn't it? Because I don't think we've uh been used to seeing England play like that for a hell of a long time.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Well, not especially when you know we're under the cotch of it. You know, we we were we were brilliant, absolutely brilliant first half. Um we let in two goals, and and his history would tell us once it you know we kind of let a team back in the game, we sit back, we get played behind the ball, and then we just soak up pressure as best we can, and often we come the wrong side of the result. He went the other way, and it was refreshing.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

It was it was really refreshing. Um I love what you said, apparently what he said at half time was that um like like you said, we had seven players behind the ball, um, we still conceded that second goal. We're dropping in. Maybe that was a reflection of what they've known before. A lot of the players have played on the South Gates, and maybe dropping deep and playing that way was kind of in their nature a little bit, so it felt maybe a bit automatic. But him turning around and saying um that's not the way we want to play. I'd rather go out and lose the way that we want to play than defend deep and give go like like you said, we have seven players behind the ball and we still concede the goal, so you might as well go out and attack and play our way and lose than rather defend and just wait for a goal to come.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

And trust that those players, like you said, trust that those players are better than the players around. Well, how many times have you know you and I watch Euros and World Cups and we go, why have we got two players just sitting in front of the defence? And we're when we're playing Iceland, like why? We we are you know, we're a top 10, if not higher, team in world football, not just European football. Yeah, go out and express yourself and dominate and second half. I mean that first 15 minutes, I know we'll talk about it in a bit. That's what you want. You know, that's not just saying as an England fan, that's what you want as a football fan. That's horrible.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Absolutely, mate. That was it was sensational, wasn't it? Like it was just absolutely we're winning a ball high up the pitch, like we were pressing so well, they couldn't get out, we were totally swarming all over them, chance after chance. Absolutely. I mean, now um I know like as a Tottenham fan, I've been moneying about Arsenal set pieces as pretty much every other fan, an Arsenal fan all season. But now we're like, this is amazing. One percent.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

Like you've got to get ahead of the game. You know, Liverpool went in um when they won the Champions League and they won the Premier League, getting throw on coaches then. You know, to be in a in in an elite setup, you know it's just small gains that you can make.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

And but whether you like his his delivery all game was just on point, wasn't it? We were I think we pretty much won every first header that he delivered in from either free kick or a corner. Um we could have had two or three more, couldn't we, from corners, like from the deliveries.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

I mean there's three there's three players, obviously, as an Arsenal fan that we see regularly Saka, Wright, Medoueke. They can all they can all put a phenomenal delivery in. Um and they're pretty consistent with it. Like you said, Declan Rice rarely fails. Saka rarely fails. Madoueke is probably 80%. I know some people probably listen to this and go, oh, I don't know about that. Um but and again, I'm sure we'll talk about Madoueke's performance of a bit, but as I said, he's yeah, the the the set plays themselves are you know, as much as we want to defend him when we get them and we've got those small gains and we've got those small opportunities to to get ourselves ahead and use our physicality and our size, and you've got someone like Rice, as I said, you can put it on Kang's head as easy as that, why would you why would you go away from it?

SPEAKER_03 21:58

No, exactly. Exactly. And to be fair, I mean Saka obviously came on a bit later. I don't think he had too many opportunities to take uh a corner. But him if he's into uh when he is playing and he's like swinging it in with his left foot and then he got Rice swinging it in with his right foot, obviously Rice and both of them can do an outswinger as well, it just gives you a lot of options. It and the way they put so much pace on the ball, it's very, very hard to defend against. If they can get that delivery on a consistent level, and like you said, with the physicality and the size and the people that can attack the ball in that team, obviously like Harry Kane, but even O'Reilly, he had two chances, didn't he? And um from two corners. Yeah, probably the yeah, definitely. I mean, one was a great save. One was a great save by the keyboard the first one where he's had it a little bit wide. If he just said it on target, it was a goal, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01 22:48

I think I think he just lost it behind the defender, just at the last minute in his defence. But but again, small margins, isn't it? You know, the World Cup football, you know, Lovakovic on another day, his man of the match in that game. You know, much as we're saying we had the best 15 minutes we're seeing. He's possibly had the best 15 minutes of his career. So definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

It was incredible, wasn't he? Yeah, mate save after save.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Oh, it it's it was yeah, something else.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

And also, it was so refreshing, wasn't it, when um the assistant manager came out and they interviewed him, everyone's thinking, oh, why is interviewing him? And normally they're so political and they just say the right things and they don't give too much away. And he's just come out and gone bang, bang, bang, hasn't he? We're overcommunicating him, we're not passing forward enough, we're not playing with enough intensity, we're dropping back uh when we should be pushing forward, we're playing long when we should be playing short, short when we and he's like, wow. So you can imagine what uh Tuchel was saying to them in the change room, but well the clarity, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 23:48

It was the clarity of the message because everybody said at half time, the players came out, they reciprocated exactly what he said, they grew a go to say there, and they applied it. Job done. And that is exactly what you want in any in any form of leadership. What you ask of your players or your people is for them to go out and apply it. And England didn't just come out and apply it, they applied it to the absolute max with absolute precision, quality all over the park, and and yeah, real credit uh to that team talk to their messaging. Um that's gonna be important, you know. It's going to be it's it's all in good sense, I think. But if you don't get the reaction, then you haven't maybe got the team that you think you got. And after all the criticism was um that's come to sort of play with his selection, he got his selection right based on this one game thus far, and it's fair played.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

I think that's what yeah, I think another thing that was so positive was we were three to up, and he just brought on we replaced three of the the front four.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah, it wasn't what's happening.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

But like for light, and said, like, listen, we're gonna go and get the next goal. Definitely, and we've seen in the past so often, haven't we, that when we're one goal up, we swap maybe some of the attacking players for more defensive players. We try and sit in, we try and see the game out, um, and invite the pressure on. And he's gone, no, we're better than them. We've got players that are kind of come on that are as I think in his eyes he sees them as equally as good as one starting. We're gonna go on and try and get a fourth and a fifth goal. And then that fourth goal was a great goal. I mean, Stacker, when he came on, I don't think he's got enough credit for that little bit of skill we'd done on the right where he just sold a player a great little dump. He got out half a yard, I suppose, drove up the line, played the ball inside, uh, then got the ball back, played out to Rashford and what a finish by Rashford as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Oh, very first touch, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 25:40

And even our um our third goal straight after the restart was 26 passes. I was watching it again, and you didn't realise it was pretty much from as soon as we got the ball from the kickoff, we were passing it, passing it, keeping the ball, and then suddenly we had that change of intensity. Great ball by Anderson and Bellingham, brilliant inside run by Brucken. Job done, yeah, excellent.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yeah, but they but they attacked the pace, didn't they? You know, they they turned on the gas and they went for it. It wasn't uh it wasn't slow, it wasn't passive. Um, it was yeah, it was it was free-flowing football.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Yeah, and I think even in the first half we were trying to do that, well maybe we weren't quite getting the connections right, but Mad Weki's first half was causing them all sorts of trouble, wasn't he, with his pace.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

We were very wrong sided, weren't we? We did we didn't really get Gordon into the game's first half, but you know, the power in the midfield and it's a first four or five minutes of the World Cup. Look, I I I think if you we'd played Grace a second game, I don't think we'd have let those two goals in. I I don't and you know, so again, if you've got to take into account big tournament, we're la we know we're one of the last games on, everyone else has played their game, it's a bit of pressure, and you you just want your big player stepping up and Harry Tain, you know, I think he covered every bait of grass, Elliot Anderson, Declan Rice, you know, uh Bellingham. That that midfield core just just gave that team so much balance, and yeah, as I said, Stones will be better for it. Well, whatever way Tushaw goes against Garner, Stones will be better for minutes in the legs. Um, you know, Conser as well, that partnership will grow a little bit if he goes that way. Uh Reese James looks a fit as I've seen him play, and he's a natural leader, which is great. Um, you know, Nico Riley's still young, you know. He looked a bit, yeah, a bit um nervy at times in the first half. Um but then grew into the game.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

And yeah, I think a lot of us, you know, there's a bit of you could tell there's that nervous energy, there was a little bit like when maybe they could have gone forward, they weren't playing a bit safer, which is what they were saying. Um, but Nico Riley's second half, I thought he was really good. That's bad. They had a couple of little bits on the left side where he was beating people, keeping the ball really well under pressure. Um, and Reese James as well. Doesn't always he seems to go under radar a little bit, but I thought he'd done really well, especially second half, like all the boys. But he played an I think that pass he played into Anderson was like brilliant. Just go it looked like he was going to shape it down the line. He's just like cut it inside to Anderson. Anderson's played it down the line. Brilliant pass. I again don't think quite got the credit it deserved.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

But they're both comfortable, aren't they, coming inside as well? You know, they're both very comfortable coming inside, allowing the midfield to to kind of kick on and support the attacks and come in and play and then obviously we can drop into a three or even twos at times, isn't it, at the back? Um, which is which is what you want. You know, you want those kind of hybrid players that are able to play on the outside, the inside, like you said, about you know, Gordon and Rashford and and our wingers, you want them on the inside and outside, but it's the same with our fullbacks. You know, you want them to be able to play wide, you want them to be able to play narrow and neutral, you want them to be able to drop into the midfield as well and be as effective, which we were.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Yeah, and also I think fair play to Croatia, they came to play as well, didn't they? They didn't come and sit back, they played at high intensity, they're trying to press us higher, especially in the first half. And to be fair to them, they were winning a few ball backs, and um both their goals were of very high quality. What I know like you and me were discussing um about the the flight of the football, and I know they were talking about it in commentary that maybe it's giving a few goalkeepers a few issues at the moment. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Yeah, I think uh I mean it's it's kind of been laughed at previously, isn't it? Um and and I think often until you hear it from a goalkeeper themselves, it's uh it's just looked at as an excuse, isn't it? You know, we didn't play well because of a ball and the old adage of a bad worksman blames that's all type thing. But listening to Joe Hart the other night, it makes complete sense. You know, uh again, as much as we say about you know the uh the atmospherics and the heat and the pitches and and all of that, you know, the footballs are different as well, and they're different from um tournament to tournament. So you know, there's been enough evidence, Edward Mendy the other night, Ivory Coast against France, uh Mike Manyon, France against Albreco Sangay.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Um Messi's one of his goals as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Pickford's so you know there's there's a lot of um yeah, there's a lot of evidence to support that the ball certainly has an impact on the ability to save uh these kind of long distance shots and and get a gauge of um how the ball's reacting uh once it's been kicked. Um but it's equally similar in other sports. So I know I said to you yesterday about cricket, you've got gooch ball, you've got a cookie bar ball, they do different things in in different countries. So it's it's not the first time we've heard of it, and again, it's about whether you want to allow that to be deemed as an excuse or you actually just look at the science behind it and understand this is this isn't people making up, things are different. And yeah, it it's once they get used to it, like Joe Hart said the other night um on the commentary uh of the post-match analysis, sorry, he's he said he doesn't feel like the uh the long-range shots that maybe have led to goals in the first round later in the competition will have the same outcomes.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Yeah, I think that was interesting, obviously, what he said there. And he was saying that the goalkeepers are gonna start to understand it and be able to maybe prevent some of those goals that did go in. Because, like you said, there were there have been three or four goals that seem to have gone through the goalkeeper's hand or gone under that, just quite hasn't got the right connection, or maybe thought they had the right connection and then weren't able to keep the ball out. Um, but in terms of for us, I guess it's been more exciting because we're seeing load of great goals, and also I think we're seeing more goals from outside the box again, aren't we? Because I don't think there was a spell in football where people didn't want to shoot from outside the box because they were coached that if he didn't go in they were giving the ball away.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

But we're seeing a lot of uh strike, great strikes from outside the air. I think that's that's it's brilliant to see, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

I I agree, and again, I think it's uh I think I think in um uh again without looking at the science and the atmospheric, when you look at sea level and and things like that, there is the the impact on the ball and the reasons behind it. I do think there's as I said, uh so much, you know, again we talk about those 1%, so much goes into um you know, this whole competition from you know nutrition to psychology to the physiology behind it. There's also the biomechanics, so not just the physical side of it, but how the as I said, the physics of the balls and stuff like that. It's incredible. And and when you're playing in the likes of Mexico and stuff, as I said, uh altitude plays um a big part in the way the ball moves, the way players move. Um so yeah, look, I I think there's maybe a little bit of science behind that because it's certainly similar in rugby, you go to South Africa, you go to Argentina, but you know, you see kickers taking penalties and conversions from a lot further back than they would in Europe, as an example.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

So yeah, maybe there's a little bit in that as well. Or maybe the players are just technically slightly better at the moment, who knows?

SPEAKER_03 33:02

If we look forward then, I guess, from the Croatia going to the Ghana game, obviously that's taking place for us tomorrow. Who who do you think is gonna be the centre back uh pairing for that game? Do you think Mark Gay is gonna come in and partner either Stones or Conza?

SPEAKER_01 33:18

No, I I don't personally. I I don't think Tushu cares what the media says. Into I don't think he's looks at it in terms of he's gonna be pressured into anything. Um and second half, we were right, won't we against Croatia? We bedded in, and uh again, I I think he'll see it as a good opportunity to get minutes in the ledge of Stones, but I've maybe I've harked on about that too much. I I think he just sees Stones and uh Conser as our most physical partnership at the bat. Um yeah, there's not a massive difference between the three of them in terms of football in IQ and ability, really. Um although I would have gay and stones are the better footballers, that's for it.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Um bit quicker though, isn't he, than Conser and Stones?

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Um Gay's definitely quicker than Stones. Um I don't think there'd be masses of difference between him and Consa. Um but yeah, I don't see any changes. I I I could see us playing the same 11 tomorrow uh that we did in the previous two games against Costa Rica and Croatia personally.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Yeah, I think it's quite interesting, isn't it? When we look back at the Costa Rica game, no one thought the team that he put out at the start was going to be the team that started. It was kind of hidden in plain sight, which I do love Tuchel, I must admit, I love the way he talks, the way he operates. Yeah, yeah. I think his honesty is refreshing, and the way he comes across is refreshing.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

Makes you feel part of it, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 34:41

He does, absolutely, and he gives I think he speaks really but well about why players are playing, not playing. Um and I think as well, there was a lot of debate about Bellingham, wasn't it, and Rogers? Bellingham, I think, showed his his worth his worth, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

No, they can like you said with two short, you know, the little bits like him kicking off about the national anthem. You know, absolutely right. This is as he said, he goes, I want to see my players sing in their country's national anthem. I don't want to be standard because looking at 50 50 photographers taking pictures of me on an elevated bit. Um he's like these are moments, and I want to share this with my team.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Yeah, exactly. I love that as well. I love the fact he said that. You know, because it looks yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So Bellingham, we feel that I mean he's gonna start, isn't he? Uh against Ghana. Uh for me, again, I hear that I still hear he's not quite world class. Um for me he's he's world class. He's world class, yeah. He scored in the last three major tournaments for England.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

He went to Round Majority and became the their number one player spared away in in an absolute top squad.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

He's world class.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Sorry. And Deglan, if if he's not already, he's definitely knocking on the door, isn't he?

SPEAKER_01 36:04

World class. Would would you would Declan Right? I would agree. I would agree. Would Declan Rice be in every team in the world football?

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

Without a doubt. Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

And again, Elliot looking like he said the other day, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

He ain't from all he was brilliant the other night, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Super. They compliment each other so well, don't they? Him and Deck.

SPEAKER_03 36:22

Yeah. That's such a powerful midfield three, isn't it? Elliot Anderson, Deglan Rice, and um.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Well, they all 6'2 plus mentor. Like not a lot of that.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

And can all play.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

And all Ted would be very, very efficient, picking a ball up from the driving forward, and they cover their engines.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

I'll tell you what, uh Alison did really well. It's pressing, wasn't it? Especially on people like Modric. He was when allowing them to turn, he was getting right close to them, winning so many balls high up in uh the pitch. I think he did that both in the first half and the second half.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

They turned the ball over so well. They've just their feet seem to be there. Like wherever they are, their body doesn't always seem to be there, but somehow they've looked. It's a real art.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Yeah, I think if we look at um obviously Gordon was a bit quieter, and people might be saying Rashford should start, but to be fair to Gordon, a lot of the play was down the right-hand side. He didn't really get many opportunities, did he, to like run at the defender. Um, but again, his pressing is invaluable. And at the start of the second half, when he's pressing like that with everyone, we're winning like we're winning the ball back so much. Rashford, brilliant when he came on. So you could un I think Gordon probably deserves to start another chance, maybe. Um Mad Weke was really, I think, quite effective. He gets a lot of bad press, but his pace he was killing them first half. They couldn't really live with him.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

And he actually and actually what was nice to see is I felt like he made you know he generally made the right decisions. Um that's something that's kind of been thrown at him rightfully. Um, but he generally made the right decisions uh the other night.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

He won the penalty, didn't he? So he put a great ball in that Bellingham-Nilly score for him in the first half. So yeah. But I think give Sack a bit more time, doesn't it, to s work on his Achilles injury, get himself like he's not being rushed back in, there's not that pressure on him. I'm more playing the pressure. So I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Even if you got his whole World Cup with Medoweke and Gordon, I've decided to bring Saka on for half hour, Rashford on for half hour. What a problem to have, eh?

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Oh no, amazing. If we look at Garner, obviously they've got Samenyo, who's a fantastic player. Party's back for them, so that's going to be a big player for them in the middle of the park. Jordan Are you up top, even though he's I guess he's getting on a bit at 34, 35 years of age. Um, and they've got a Poco, haven't they?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah, and Brandon Thomas Asante at um Coventry as well. So they've got some good price, and and you know, one thing he's you're never ever ever not going to get with uh the African teams is that unity, innit? But it's beautiful when walking into the stadiums. The uh is sometimes they look like a um a dance squad, don't they, with with some of their warm-ups and the celebrations and you know their fans, they're all so succinct, aren't they? And yeah. African teams. You've got back to some of your great my greatest memories like Nigeria and the World Cup, Amakachi, sorry, the Olympics, Amakachi, uh JJ Akocha, Sunday Lise, go back to Cam. You know, um Roger Miller back in the day. Yeah, I mean they they just they just you know African teeth just make you smile. Um and and as I said, they're unity. Walking in the stadium with a massive boom boxes, I think we had Egypt last night, there'll be Mo Salah um or NC Mo, whatever he was the other night. It's uh it's great, isn't it? Like, and that is it's colour, it's it's it's bringing colour to the occasion. It's it's um yeah, passion and as I said, unity and pride of the shirt, it's it's uh yeah, it's uh it's something to behold.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Yeah, absolutely. It's I think because we've been Croatian now, that it's kind of like, oh, we're just gonna turn up and beat Ghana, but it just doesn't work like that, does it? I mean, they fight, they're gonna give everything like to try and get a point or three points to win the game, not gonna just try and get a point and then try and win the game.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

And they're coming off the coming off the back disappointing three points, weirdly.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

I know, yeah. So they need a point, they're gonna qualify. Um if they get three points, I could potentially win the top of the group. So it's all to play for, and they've got dangerous players, it's gonna be another really good game, I think.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Oh, it's it's gonna be uh yeah, it's gonna be uh I think a pretty hectic um for want of a better word, game. Um because physically they're uh they're a big team.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Yeah, they are. Well, a lot of the African teams are physically big guys, aren't they? Yeah, and a lot of power, a lot of pace.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

And like you said in Semeno, you know, arguably some might win, aren't they? Some might say sign in the season last season. Yeah, um, you know, when he left Bournemouth to go to Man City. Really, him and Gaye when he left to Palace, they were the two players that really brought Man City back into the title.

SPEAKER_02 41:10

It did.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Um yeah, Stromeno is a special talent, and and again, comes across as such a such a likable human being.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

So it's hard to uh yeah won the worst for him, but uh yeah, I'd I'd I'm not worried about that tomorrow. We'll we'll let him be. Hopefully he has a better game.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Right, coming up today, obviously, um, which is really exciting because their last game was uh two in the morning, so I never got a chance to watch him. He's Argentina. I love Leonor Messi. Um hat-trick in his first game. When I woke up and I looked on my Sky Sports app and I saw the score, and I clicked on the score and saw the goal score and saw that he got hatred, it just made me smile, made me want to watch him straight away. It is one of the best ways to wake up in the morning. When you're getting up at five in the morning, there's nothing better. So obviously, the great rivalry with Ronaldo, Messi's now equaled uh Close's record, the most goals scored at a World Cup. Mbappe is one behind, I think. He's taken over um Oliver Giroux record, and he's now one goal behind Close Messi's uh level with Closa. Um Kane's now level with Lineker for 10 goals for the most amount of goals scored by an English player, which is brilliant for Harry Kane. But going back to Messi, um I'm hoping we're gonna see a little bit more magic from him uh in today's game. Obviously, there's that great rivalry with Ronaldo, and Ronaldo and Portugal didn't get off to the greatest of starts. Um I saw quite a lot of that game with uh Portugal um and Ronaldo it's really hard to criticise someone of his level of ability and what he's done in the game. Who am I really to criticise, Ronaldo? But it does feel like um from watching it, he was a I don't know if it's the right word, but it was maybe more detrimental to the team than if someone else had been playing because it always seems geared to provide Ronaldo with the chance to score a goal. There are opportunities in the second half where the right winger was getting down to the byline, he's pulled a couple back, and one of the second ones it was Bruno Fernandez waiting right behind Ronaldo, who was in a better position where he'd just come onto it and probably swept it into the corner. Ronaldo wants to score and his body shape's not really right to take it. So he's trying to manufacture something, a lot more difficult attempt when if Bruno Fernandez had it, he's just running onto it and probably side foot it into the goal. So it felt like a lot that the play was engineered to try and set Ronaldo up for a goal, and if he wasn't getting a ball. The right delivery, it looked like he was throwing his arms up a bit. What do we think about Ronaldo Portugal situation? Because they've got a phenomenal team, haven't they?

SPEAKER_01 44:11

They've got an unbelievable team. But you know, like you said, it's it's very difficult to criticise or critique um Ronaldo and Messi because of what they've given to the game, you know. Um I think I think Ronaldo's a lot more misunderstood than Lionel Messi in general. Um and again, maybe that's from playing in England where the media are very different. But at the moment, Lionel Messi is an elite top-top player, their number one player, but they all play together. They've they as much as they look to him to to mould everything together, it's uh it's a squad game with Portugal.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

I think yeah. I think with Messi though, he can still get around the pitch, can't he? He can still receive the ball, drift, he can drop his shoulder, um, he can still get past, but maybe not get away from them so much as he used to, obviously. But he can still see those passes, his finishing, he's on point, his reading of the game is incredible, he finds a space. But the main thing for me with Messi at the moment is that he's he's getting around the pitch, which Ronaldo looks like he's struggling, he's he looks quite static. And whether he's just that's because he just wants to be the central focus for the team, does it he's not getting involved in the game too much, he's not making too many runs in behind. It's like he seems to be waiting for the the cross, the pass to then for him to score is messy, he's drifting in and out of space, he's drifting in and out of the game, making still more difficult to pick up from the game that I saw the other day. And obviously, he had three goals, he could he had one disloyal, he could have had four, he's just marginally offside. He had another effort that Kit hauled off a great stay from. He could have walked away five goals. But the Argentinian players, they're all I know it's kind of built around him, but they understand what he still brings to them and to the team. Whereas with Ronaldo, they probably got better players around around uh Ronaldo if you look at individual. If went paired up Portugal against Argentina, you'd probably pick more Portugal players, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

And I know they're geared up for Ronaldo the same, but it doesn't seem that there's that same, I don't know, cohesion with it all.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Messi's game hasn't really changed. Whereas Ronaldo's game has changed massively because his legs don't know. He was always about power dynamism, you know, dribbling, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

As we all know, when your legs go a little bit, again, who am I to critique Ronaldo and talk about legs going? But the reality is where we the father he set himself, he can beat a man, he doesn't look like he can beat a man as much now. Meshley still looks like he can piece it all together, pick up the pockets, and you know, he he just he might be older in age, but he's still doing the same things and still having the same impact.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

I mean, as it stands, like we were saying yesterday, if England win the group and Portugal stay where they are, we could play them in the last 32. Yeah. Which I mean that would be an unbelievable massive game, wouldn't it, in the last 32?

SPEAKER_01 47:22

It is, and and we've said, haven't we, arguably on paper for us the two best midfields, but two polar opposite midfields.

SPEAKER_03 47:30

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Portugal a bit more goal and I guess more technical, you would say, whereas the English three would be a bit more powerful, wouldn't they? Like, but still technical, but a different type of thing. A couple of bigger spaces.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Um yeah, it's uh yeah, I mean, against the World Cup and it have all the makings of uh of this huge of a huge type if that ends up being the way. I still I still think we'll end up with Congo. I know I said that to you earlier. Um again, on a personal note for me and you, having Aaron Wan Basaka as another extuder representing us in the World Cup, you know, yeah, that'd be incredible, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Oh, England to play against him.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Well, so it's I think his journey as well. Um, you know, you had him as a as a winger and a striker. Uh, and then obviously that one training session with Wilfred Zaha um when he was pulled in from the academy, changed the whole trajectory of where he was seen, um where he was seen as, and then came in, didn't he, um, out of nowhere. And so I think first three games it was like Tottenham, Chelsea, and City or something. They were top three of the top five teams and was incredibly dominant, and then obviously got pretty much more man and match in every game. You know, and changed um yeah, changed that whole season in many ways defensively, and then ended up getting, you know, down the line. He ended up getting his his move to United and then on to West Ham uh in more recent times. But again, you know, what uh yeah, what a journey he's had and and again to be part of that. And and he he comes from a great family, doesn't he? I mean, his sister, I mean she was arguably an even more naturally talented sports person than than he was in many ways.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

Yeah, she was an incredible athlete. Absolutely. She could do absolutely everything, yeah. Athletics, running, jumping, yeah, throwing events, just power, phenomenal. And technical quality as well, both of them without doubt, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, Aaron Basaka, so great to see him at a World Cup. Jeff Spence coming on for England doing an amazing job.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Almost scored as well.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

Nearly scoring, nearly scoring. Um, it's just phenomenal, isn't it, for us to see them two doing what they've done in their careers and going to a world cup. It's just every schoolboy's dream and they're they're living it.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Just a hotbed of talent, which I know we're gonna talk about, you know, in in future pods. But London and South London is just uh the wealth of talent that make it and the wealth of talent that don't make it is insane. You know, and I can't wait to to kind of kind of dip and dive into that and and you know look at the amount of stories that have come from from the the place where we were lucky enough to, you know, first meet and and yeah, kind of put our together and trying to yeah, make these young men and women into yeah, sporting so they ended up becoming right.

SPEAKER_03 50:25

I think we're just finished with who we think's gonna win the golden boot. Obviously, the big players have come out to play. It's looking like it's gonna be very keenly contested for yourself. Who do you f I'll give you a couple? Uh I'll let you have two choices.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Wow, it's kind of too kind. Uh I'm gonna go. Do you know what? I'm gonna probably be pretty boring. I'm gonna go Harry Kang. I'm gonna back him up. I think we've got all the tools to provide him with with goals galore after what I saw against Croatia scoring four in your first World Cup um game as a team and him scoring two. He he's gonna get um he's gonna get a lot of opportunities. And listen, it's gotta be the king, and it's king messy surely it's gotta be you know I'll I'll I'd I can score out trick today. I would. So there you go. I'm going Kane and Messi's got a bit okay.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

I thought you were gonna say Mbappe then.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

I was to be honest, I was tempted, but he was his first half the other day was abysmal. And it was let's be pretty honest, it weren't for Elise, he wouldn't have got in the game. I mean Elise, by the way, the other day, his assist. So we didn't know. Oh, it's incredible. Oh my god. He's I can't wait to talk about him down the line. He is an outrageous talent. Um I love, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:48

Talks of a cognizant.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Well when he talks, when he talks because his interviews just made you smile, it's so funny. Um but what he he is he's one of probably he's probably the most exciting young player to watch um for me at the moment. You know, you look at that number three at Bayern Munich in him, Diaz, and Kane. You know, Livwall got to look at themselves and go, how and why did we get rid of Diaz? Because you look at their team last season, you think he he would have just been everything. Kane is Kane, you know, is he's insane. And Elise just, you know, I mean the minute Real Madrid starts sniffing, you know you're you know you're doing alright.

SPEAKER_03 52:27

Yeah. So I think for me Kane. I think Mbappe, I love it to be messy, not in front of Kane, but if it wasn't Kane, then I love it to be Messi. I think one of my favourite, if not my favourite, him and Maradona, probably my two favourite players of all time. But I think it's gonna be Mbappe and Kane. Um so I think we'll leave that for the viewers. We'll say to viewers, what do you think? Who's gonna be the golden goal, golden boot winner for you guys? Is it Mbappe? Is it Kane? Is it gonna be Messi? Is it gonna be Haaland?

SPEAKER_01 53:03

I'll throw the curveball out there. Dennis Undad for Germany. What a record.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

There you go, mate. And also uh Elizabeth, did I say that right? The Spanish guy scored two.

SPEAKER_01 53:13

Oh, you're far ball.

SPEAKER_03 53:15

Yeah, I'm never good with a Spanish name.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

No one's noticed, I promise. No one's noticed.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

But if you uh if you could let us know who it is, write in the comments. Um, we'd be love to see what your thoughts are. And also some thoughts about what you've seen so far regarding England, their performance against Croatia, and the upcoming game against Ghana. So thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Join England.