The Brain & Behaviour — Neuroscientist Michael Coleman

Neuroscientist Michael Coleman joins the show for a conversation on the brain and human behaviour, and what the science means for how we work and lead.

If you want to know more about Daniele Forni, go to www.danieleforni.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Can you afford the time not to be coached? I've just been astonished about how much that helped me solve my own problems just by purely a question-based approach. A habit or an assumption that you run through hundreds or thousands of times is always going to be the default assumption unless you stop and question it and perhaps practice a different way of thinking. Just like you can practice a musical instrument or driving a car and it be eventually becomes natural.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

We are going through together the Moller Institute Advance Coaching Programme. And I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind. The first one is: can you share a bit about your background and what brought you to this program?

SPEAKER_00 0:55

A neuroscientist. I do neuroscience research at the University of Cambridge. I lead a group of about 14 people there. And I'm also, therefore, at the interface between leading a reasonably autonomous group, the huge administrative machine, if you like, of the university. So that's an everyday experience for me of trying to be in the interface between those two. And seeing in each side of that interface how things work best or sometimes don't work, and noticing where coaching could actually have some impact there. I've always been, in terms of coaching, my interest in coaching, I've always been interested in professional development and get new ways for getting the best out of myself and my team. But something in particular changed in the pandemic when there was the opportunity to essentially stand back and look without being under constant daily pressure to do the next task and be able to think more about how the work is done and you know how will this change after we all go back to the workplace properly. During that period I was on the receiving end of coaching from two different providers, and I've just been astonished about how much that helped me solve my own problems. And just by purely a question-based approach, and I just thought I have to have the skills to be able to do this for other people. I just saw the huge power in that.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Actually, the same uh the same experience because as I've been coached for three, four years, at the end I realized that it's so powerful, it's really impactful. And then I I am sort of like I'm uh entering a bit this fear and scheme that people coach you so that you're on the skill and then you're not going to somewhere else, no one else, which is quite uh quite interesting. Is there something that people might not know about you?

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Anyone that knows me reasonably well will know this already. I'm fairly open about my life, but uh one thing that people uh just tuning into this may not know. I have a family history of mental illness. Uh my brother, uh older brother was diagnosed with a mental illness at the age of 19. That's been a major impact on my life, both in terms of I would say it's determined the direction of my career. That's why I went into neuroscience research, driven my interest in the human mind and psychology, and over time that has merged with my whole sort of interest in professional development. Just understanding myself and other people, how to get the best out of them in a you know, people in a reasonably well-functioning environment, but there's always things we can do better.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

I might ask you like a bit of a different question then. If you were to to tell the difference between uh what neuroscience does, what therapy does, what coaching does, what do you think is the other key differences across these three categories?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah, that's an important distinction. I think one thing we've learned is you know, there's supervision, there's mentoring, there's coaching, there's therapy, uh almost as a spectrum, essentially. And my understanding at least, the border between coaching and therapy would be coaching is about helping people who are good, well-functioning people in a normal workplace environment, but we all will be experiencing some forms of daily challenges which where we feel we're not getting the best out of ourselves, we're not living to our full potential. Whereas therapy, I think, is much more about dealing with major trauma, either current or more often from previous uh periods of life, and things bordering actually on genuine mental illness, whereas all of us have some kind of aspect of our personality or beliefs and habits uh from earlier life which are not really serving us any longer, and we need to challenge those assumptions and and decide whether to change them. I think that's where I see where coaching comes in.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Probably I'm very ignorant about this. How about neuroscience? Where does it fit into this?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

For me, the the neuroscience actually helps me understand and gives credibility uh in my mind to the whole process of coaching. I'm aware that, for example, through my day job, the way we think, uh the way when it trigger certain neuronal circuits, we constantly strengthen them and therefore they become more easily activated in future. So a habit or an assumption that you run through hundreds or thousands of times is always going to be the default assumption unless you stop and question it and perhaps practice a different way of thinking. Just like you can practice a musical instrument or driving a car and it eventually becomes natural, and different ways of thinking can become natural with enough practice, and that's that's where I see the link between what I do in the day job and the coaching.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

When you look at leadership today, when you look at maybe your own work, everyone seems to be quite worried about AI, about change, about technology. Aren't there some characteristics that leadership can have and should have that is constant, something that will not age, let's say, in the same way that technology does nowadays?

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah, it won't be taken over by a machine. Uh, I think it's about it's about understanding and connecting with the person, people uh in an organization. I think that is absolutely irreplaceable. And actually, if we are going to go further into a world where information and sometimes conversations are increasingly provided by uh machines, by AI, there's no question in my mind people are going to crave human contact more than ever. Uh and that's what coaching provides, that's what genuine in-person leadership provides. But understanding the person, helping them understand that they're not ultimately replaceable by a machine, no matter how much the machine might provide the information side of it better. Different people bring unique skills to a job, and and it's about identifying what those skills are, helping people overcome where they have more limitations. It's very much a human thing to get the best best out of people and a team.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

That is quite interesting. I never thought about uh about that. Of course, the you cannot really replace with machine the human interaction.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Our day work, work life and out of work life with all interacting with a screen or a robot, we will be terribly sad at the end of the day. And that is a human quality that no machine can ever replace.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Absolutely. So, a moment ago you mentioned that you were fascinated by the fact that the coach might ask you a certain question and then by yourself you then manage to transform or change yourself. Let's say, do you have a favorite question when you coach that you like to ask? Something that I don't know that gives you the best or they give you the most impactful answers.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

One of the ones that really springs to mind really is whatever challenge someone's dealing with, it's a question like what's what's the assumption that you're making here? And you have to drill down into what's the underlying thinking behind that. Another one is if if you spot that somebody may be having thinking about something that's holding them back, what's holding you back from doing X or going down a particular road, and then challenging whether that's uh truly a limitation or whether they can get around that in some way.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

We are now at the end of this uh short episode. So if you could leave the listeners or the watchers with one reflection or question, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

I think a lot of people, of course, executive coaching in particular is is suitable for people in an extremely busy and challenging jobs. If you're managing an organization of a reasonable size, you're you are going to be always overstretched and overwhelmed. And many people will say, Oh, I don't have time for coaching, or even if they want to, then in practice do not actually find the time. And I think the important question to ask is can you afford the time not to be coached? It's reminds me of the old cartoon of Stone Age Man with his cart with square wheels and somebody saying, Well, what about these round wheels? Oh no, and the answer is oh no, I haven't got time to deal with those. It's it's like that really. It's it's about making things run more efficiently.