The Black Phone (2021)

This week, Bryan and Shakeel are diving headfirst into Scott Derrickson's supernatural horror hit, The Black Phone (2021), starring Ethan Hawke as the terrifying "Grabber" and Mason Thames as Finney.

Does this Blumhouse film hold up on a rewatch, or does digital filmmaking take away from its 1970s horror aesthetic? The guys clash over Ethan Hawke’s villainous performance, the use of practical masks vs. CGI, child acting, and whether this story works better as a supernatural horror or a classic thriller.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to episode four of Pratt Daily Film Guys. That went in quick. That went in. That's four episodes already. Four episodes done. Four episodes, roughly three hours, twenty minutes of us talking about films. Totten shite, basically. Totten shite. Good shite though. So we are here talking about the Black Phone. Mm-hmm. Um 2021. I'm gonna read it off my trustee page. Definitely wrote all these notes myself. So the Black Phone is a 2021 American supernatural horror film written, oh sorry, directed by Scott Derrickson from a screenplay he wrote with C. Robert Cargill, based in the 2004 short story by Joe Hill. It is the first installment in the Black Phone franchise. It stars Mason Thames as Finney, a teenage boy abducted by a serial child killer known colloquially as the grabber Ethan Hawk. When Finney encounters a mystical black rotary phone in captivity, he uses it to plot his escape by communicating with the ghosts of the grabbers' slain victims. Madeline McGraw, Jeremy Davies, and James Ranson also featuring the principal cast. Wow. So the black phone. Before we get into the black phone, I've got a burning question for you, Shakil. I don't know if you have the same answer as me. What do you think was the best decade for horror?

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Best decade for horror was well for me the 80s. The 80s? The 80s, yeah. Yeah. But I'm being a bit the 80s, but then I'm saying Halloween's my favourite movie, which was made in the 70s, but I still I think it's very reminiscent of the kind of 80s. But I'm gonna say the 80s, yeah. That's what what I mostly watch all the time is 80s slashers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

The 80s is an interesting decade because it's like it's the same thing, not just with horror, it's the same with everything. Action movies are the exact same music's the exact same, there was just so much of it in abundance, and it was like um I don't know if we'll get bleeped by a potential sponsor on this, but it was the the decade of cocaine and nudity nudity. Um so that that might have spurred the movie.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

That's what it was as well. It was all about the sex and rock and roll. There was it was a lot of um again, a lot of influential kind of teenage antics, yeah, as well, that was involved compared to the kind of serious tone of the 70s movies when you're going into the eights, it was a lot of teens going out, getting naked, partying, then dying. Yeah, yeah, alcohol as well, alcohol and drugs.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

It's I it seemed like there was almost like a new guard of filmmakers coming through in the horror and I suppose action journals as well, with excess, and it was like people from the the 70s were maybe more influenced by kind of like traditional tropes of film and old Hollywood and try to make their own version of that, whereas the 80s were just like kids that got more and more and more of it, yeah. 80s for me, what about you? I think I like more films from the 60s and 70s, and 70s. So I like again not to harken on about it, but things like Invasion of the Body Snatchers, um the original Fly. I like I love Cyclo and Hitchcock's like um suspense. I I'm I'm much more of a suspense film than I'm a horror film fan. Um so I like that again, Texas James Out and I and I love The Exorcist Um and Rosemary's Baby and stuff like that, just where it where it is more suspenseful. So I'm um I'd say there's a there's a when I talk about my favourite era of films uh in decades, there's like a a golden window between like 1966 and like 1979, right? And I think that to me the 70s kind of bleeds into the 60s a wee bit. Aye, that's I think that's the best era for all all sorts of filmmakings. I'll still stick in there, I'll say 70s.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

I'm just a cheese guy, I just yeah, I take any that's what I love the 80s. I just love cheese. I'm too serious for the 80s. It's just because of my attention span. I believe it. Or my attention span, I'm just like tets, drugs, and rock and roll, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

So let's get into black phone, let's talk more about this than we did about Evil Dead Bum. Yes. Um, so what are your initial reactions um on the first viewing versus your re-watch? So can you remember what the kind of difference is?

SPEAKER_02 4:26

So I'm gonna first of all start off with why I kind of love it to begin with, right? One uh Ethan Hawk, right? Love Ethan Hawk. I get in uh Scott Derrickson also done Sinister. Yeah, so we've brought um you know that kind of same kind of style of movie over, kind of same tone to it, uh using the Super 8 films in it, kind of going back and were um kind of flashbacks, which was used on that, like they did with Sinister. So I love about it, and I think the relationship between Finney and uh Gwen, the child actors that were in it, the chemistry between them were brilliant, and they were the drive to Blackphone. They they carried that film amazingly, and their chemistry and the relationship in it was amazing, especially Gwen. Right, she was an amazing actress in that movie, so yeah, that was that's that's what I loved about it. It's just um and overall, just very reminiscence of what was going on in the 70s and 80s in regards to serial killers as well. Yeah, and I'm interested in that kind of stuff, like on a serious note, yeah. I'm interested in that kind of stuff and what was going on, so it was very reminiscent of that. So, yeah. Um, what was your question again?

SPEAKER_01 5:34

What were your kind of reactions on on like your first viewing, if you can remember, and then did it change? Did anything change on repeated viewings?

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Not really, I still appreciate it as much as I did the first time. Like, nothing, I'm uh I'm not bored of it. I still appreciate it, and still uh intimidated by the grabber, especially the scene where Finny's trying to get upstairs and he's sitting on those um he's the grabber sitting in the chair and he looks so bench and he's just so intimidating. Um, so yeah, uh and just him Finney trying to escape from the basement as well. Um, just yeah, just uh so my first viewing compared to watching it today, um nothing's changed on it, yeah. Right. Yeah, still appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Interesting. What about you? So um there were elements of this film that I really liked, and there were elements of this film that I really didn't like. And um through online discourse, I realise again I'm in the minority. Um I d did not rate um the performances in this film at all. Um I've I and I don't know whether that's down to bad directing or bad script. I thought the dialogue was atrocious. Really? Aye. Um I th I've I just it seemed it was too rehearsed. Like everybody was speaking exactly on cue, and it didn't feel like any natural conversation. And whether that's down to the experience of the actors or or whatever, I don't know what it is. I just it just felt like everything was too perfect, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:09

And everything was too this is why we're doing this, right? Because you're a film guy, went to film school, so you pick out all that kind of stuff, you you notice all those things. But me, I I don't I I'm looking, I'm not real looking at performance, yes, I am to a certain degree, but I'm like looking at the effects and um you know the scales and that kind of stuff. So it's great like to hear your input in regards to the script, to the plot, and the characters, and you're saying about rehearsing and stuff like that. So I wouldn't pick out any of that.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

It did, and and and like I tried to um get on some forums to like back up my opinions and nobody agreed with me. Everybody was saying the same thing as you, they thought the acting was great and the the chemistry between the two was fantastic. I just I did not I feel bad talking about child actors like this, but at the same time I don't um because the professionals and they put themselves out there uh-huh. Um and I'm sure if they listen to this podcast they can tear us apart, I'll listen to it happily. Um but I just I didn't I felt like it was too performative of a performance. Okay, fair enough. And that's that's your opinion, yeah. That's you're entitled to it. I also didn't really like the cinematography in it.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Did you not? No, I loved it. I just loved it how great it was, I loved how just everything about it. I just super 8 as well was I like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I like I like how the the similarities to Cinnister because I love Sinister. I really like first film is amazing, second film not as good, but still really, really good. Um and I did like the kind of callback to that with the Super 8 and the opening credits and the flashbacks and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Deputy So-and-so is back in Blackphone as well, as a different character, obviously. But it was just good to see him back or I forget his name, but he passed away this year. Yes and peace. He's also in the at chapter two. Yeah, um, he's an amazing actor. I love it, he's just great, great comedy factor for the for the film. Definitely. It was good to bring those characters and some of those um the the the kind of formula and the props from that movie into the black phone. That's what I can appreciate from it.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah, aye. I think it's a it's a problem like aesthetically, with and and I think is Netflix that I've ushered in this era, and is is digital. The thing is, I think digital film looks too clean and it looks too precise and it looks too like surgical, and there's there's a thing that happens when you shine a light and it goes through a lens and it hits a piece of cellulode film, and the way that the light interacts with the film is the thing that you can't replicate, and all the digital film lovers will say, Oh, but we're getting close enough and it's there. It's not there's just a difference, yeah. And especially when you're trying to like reimagine or portray the 1970s in the cinema or on film, and there's just something about it that looks clean that takes me out of it.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

I totally agree with you on that. It's just I no absolutely agree with you. I um I you can tell straight away it's not, yeah. You can tell straight away that it's not.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Um and and that's not even just I I don't want to shit on black phone for that. It's it's hundreds of films. It's the first I think Netflix is it called the Netflix look, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Um and you were telling me we had a conversation about this.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

The biggest, the biggest, the best example is Ozark, where it just looks blue and washed out and grey and nothing happens, and it is not an exciting thing, and it works perfectly for that style of TV show, but I don't need to see every single film have the Netflix look where it's all washed out. People don't see they like there's a thing where it seems to me where films are shot on what's called log or raw, so it is shot all grayed out, it captures loads and loads and loads of information so they can manipulate it in post-production, and they don't seem to I don't want to be shitting around any working cinematography, they don't seem to be practically lighting sets anymore as much as they did, yeah, because everything is just big diffused lights, there's no hard lighting, hard lighting builds characters like hard lighting puts half your face in shadow, and then it adds to the story. Why is half is his face in shadow? Is he hiding something? This, that, and the next thing. These things don't happen in modern cinema. Um certainly not really in the films that I'm watching, so I I don't know where I was gone with that tangent, but I just had to get that off my chest. Um, I didn't like the cinematography um that much in the black phone, but I understood what they were trying to achieve. Um to say something positive about it, even that was fantastic. Ethan Hawk was amazing. He's great and everything, though. He's he's one of those assholes that's just fucking good and everything.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

He is such a talented actor. He's yeah, he's a very sexy talented actor. Yeah, he's um very good at it. And he was very it's just the fact that when he wears that actually, the he went through a lot of different costume changes for that movie. He looked different, like different characters for when you see him with the pretending to be the magician, yeah, you know, and he's just got makeup on and the hat and the glasses. Then from the the masks, he's wearing the mask, then he's not wearing the mask, he just looks completely different as well. Again, he just looks like a slim, slim built guy, and then he's sitting on that chair and he's looking hench as fucking yeah, it's like watching um James McAvoy in glass, not glass split, yeah, yeah. Where he he doesn't look much at all, and then holy crap, he looks a completely different guy. So that's what I found, and again, the the masks were telling, revealing these different personalities and characters um within the movie as well. So I think that was an aspect to the character changing throughout the movie because he was being nice, then he was not very sympathetic at all, then he he didn't have no emotion, and that's what these three different masks were representing throughout the movie, and I think Ethan captured the quality of those personalities within the film, yeah, and executed them beautifully.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Yeah, I I I wholeheartedly agree. I don't know if anything to add to that.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

He's sounding fancy there, round of applause.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

So let's talk a wee bit about the grabble then. The grabble. So Ethan Hawk, and we've we'll spoke about his performance, but do you think how much of a factor is it that he's playing against type as a villain? Because he's always kind of the good guy.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah, does that make it more unsettling that it's somebody that you absolutely see yeah, when you're watching, you're used to watching someone playing the good guy, and then they play, then all of a sudden they're playing the villain, it messes with your brain, kinda, and it kinda uh surprises you how well they play the villain as well. Uh yeah, so that's uh but he yeah, he executed it brilliantly, and I was shocked, and it was it was quite it was quite unsettling to see him play such a character as a child killer.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

I like I like I because it's one of those things where the the directors and the filmmakers are really leaning into it, they're leaning into you bringing in this emotional baggage, totally. And I don't think there's a lot of actors out there that could pull this role off as well as he did because I I don't think there's as many actors who are universally known as just being the good guy anymore. Totally.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

I think it's it's good for his. I think it's it's good to see as well, instead of saying, like, for example, Dwayne Johnson or um uh God Jason Statham who play the same characters in every single movie, and then you got Ethan Hawk who's just took a 180 and played someone completely different. I think that's a great to see and add to the kind of CV of characters that they've played throughout the years, so it's so refreshing to see. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

About the grabber, right? Uh-huh. We don't know anything about him. No, do you think the character would have been less effective if we knew more about his backstory?

SPEAKER_02 14:43

I think it was good that we didn't know anything about him where he came from, even like the brother in the situation didn't really know much about his own brother, the grabber, and what he was doing and what um what he was getting up to because obviously they reveal his um they reveal his past in the black phone two. Right, okay. Have you seen Blackphone? Right, so they reveal that in part two, um, which kind of explains a lot from the first movie because there's a lot of things mentioned uh within the first movie that gets explained in the second one. Obviously, they're gonna do that. Um but I I think it made him more like I I I think yeah, as a character, it made him more kind of what's the word I'm looking for, um, more interesting. Right. Not knowing anything about him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

When the cut and gets pulled back too much, it'll you lose some of the aura. Like I that that's why I'm not a huge fan of prequels. Uh huh. Um, when it's like, oh, but this is why they do this. I don't care why they do that. Telling me why they do that takes away from my experience, my first experience of experiencing that character. Yeah, I don't care about um childhood trauma or or whatever road they went on to get to who where they are. The mystique is Michael Myers. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Michael Myers which they kind of ruined and Rob Zombies take on it.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

A but but they we wiped all that off. So we've spoken a wee bit about how the different expressions reflect his mood and intentions and the masks, right? So and this is m delving a wee bit more into your world. Do you think well I know what your answer's gonna be, but tell me a wee bit more on Do you think it would be more impactful if it was a CG mask versus the practical mask?

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Absolutely not, I know the the practical mask is where it's at. Absolutely, absolutely, the practical mask is where it's at.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

And even though there is um that manoeuvrability behind CG, because all you do is I say all you do is is all it's an art form in itself, I'm not trying to offend anybody, but motion capture stuff, painting dots on, yeah, and they have that choice of changing designs as they're going, or they can do anything they want in post-production. How do you think that factors in to using against using a practical mask and being there physically on set and dressed up as the character? Do you think there's like a psychological element behind like the performance?

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Absolutely, yeah. So wearing the mask, you're gonna have a psychological presence because you can feel this thing in your face, you get to act it out, you get you get to feel what it's like to have it on your face. You get to look in the mirror and see how you can portray yourself. How are you gonna do that with CGI? You know, how can you you figure out those emotions when you're looking at the mirror and just looking at your face? So, yeah, no, I think that and I think that's why a lot of the actors go for that practical-based prop so they can physically have it there and like portray that character to the best of their capabilities. Absolutely, I couldn't see why I it's I like talking to like you know, a dragon or something, but you're talking to a tennis ball, yeah, things like that, you know. I just yeah, I think it would make it harder, and I see a lot of interviews where the actors actually appreciate physically having these things there, regardless of what it is. Yeah, you get a better portrayal of emotions and characters from it.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

There's a very famous, famous um instance behind the scenes of Peter Jackson's The Hobbit, where it was they were doing um Ian McKellen against Blue Screen and the rest of the Hobbits uh the dwarves, sorry, in a different room and he was acting through earpiece and um he almost just quit on the spot. He was like, I kinda do it here. Um can't do this. I think it's it's quite heartbreaking to watch because like a an actor has stature and an actor at his skill level and just just needs that human interaction absolutely when they're when they're doing their performances, and um it's it's something I couldn't even imagine. No, sorry, can tell you something I couldn't even imagine trying to do as a performer to get to that emotional level where you'd be happy with that against a tennis ball.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

And not only you bringing out the emotions of yourself, but you need the reaction of the characters that you're portraying that emotion to, so they're getting a reaction from it. Otherwise, they're just if he wasn't, it was a CG CG mask or whatever, they're not seeing, they're not terrified, they're not seeing that emotion, they're getting nothing from it, they're having to pretend in a way, but still the acting is reacting.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

I can't remember who said it on the dies, but acting is reacting, darling. Um, so let's talk about the authenticity of the 1970s setting because a lot of films and this is more prevalent when people are trying to reimagine the 80s and now the 90s, uh-huh. It's looked at through rose tinted glasses, and that's that's people's reimagined version of how it actually looks like if you ask somebody right now what the 80s looked like, I would I guarantee you they would say there was way more neon than they're actually. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

When it wasn't, it was all brown and beige.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Yeah, yeah. So I actually think the production design and the set design did a really good job of like an authentic 1970s setting in this.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Absolutely. From costumes, yeah, the school scenes, absolutely authentic, the bathroom scenes as well, the house that they were living in, the the interiors of the house, yeah, it all looks spot on from the cars that they used, the grabbers' house. Um yeah, I think they they executed all those aspects of the 70s within that movie.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Absolutely, man, absolutely. Um I think it was spot on because even the hairstyles, even the hairstyles, the hairstyles, and it's um I always feel as if it's a wee bit of a cheat to get out of because you can't you can't set these sorts of films in the modern day because it would be like just use a phone, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Everyone's got a mobile phone, just take a picture, that's it, totally go go live.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

There's there's the the grabber. Uh-huh. Um so it's a wee bit of a cheat code to set it back in the 70s or 80s, and then none of that was was like you didn't have any of that technical.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Executed it perfectly, even the store scene as well. I mean, there was uh there's a fight, uh there's a flashback scene to the kid going out in the store and he's playing the arcade machine, was there something like that? There's a big fight there as well. I think they just got that down to a T. Um he's with Denim jacket, he's um what do you call them? The with the jacket with the patches, I forget. Um damn it, I forget, but he's wearing and he's got I'm pretty sure he's got some sort of mullet or something going on, or is he no longer here, he's kind of like 70s, 80 because he's not a rocker kind of type, but yeah, I think they executed it beautifully.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Why do you think horror tool from a child's perspective is more intense? Or do you think it's more intense?

SPEAKER_02 21:35

Yeah, because I think it's there's an innocence to it, I believe, you know, and you're you're kinda I don't know, I I think you've got a paternal instinct that kicks in, um seeing it from a child's point of view or a child telling the story, uh, or that it's the child that's potentially gonna get hurt or killed in it. So I think it's it makes it a lot more gripping and terrifying because. It's just what's the outcome? Are they going to get hurt? So I think it is just a paternal instinct, just kicks in and it makes it um kind of a bit more worrying for that character. I know it is for me.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

I was just about to say, do you feel that more intensely being a parent? Do you think?

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Absolutely. Yeah, I think I think that's I think that's where a lot of it comes from. Yeah. I don't know if I don't know if it would be as much if I wasn't a father. I don't know. Um but I think yeah, it's just I think it's just the kind of the innocent. But again, it's just um if you are younger, if you're a teenager watching it, if you are a child watching it, it again it it would scare you as a child or a teenager kind of realising that that what is out in the outside world, the potential risks and harms that are that are out there, and I'm sure that has possibly like traumatized some kids and been made them very aware and um you know um of what's out there, so yeah, but as an adult, as a father, then I absolutely absolutely that's that's I I um I do think it can be intense because when you put yourself in their shoes, because the the kids in these films are the kids that we follow, um didn't they do anything wrong?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

No, like he didn't go away with a stranger or anything, he just kind of like it was stopped in his path, and that's the thing that like didn't make any stupid decisions, it was just one of these things that happened that happens to wrong place, wrong time, exactly because it's it's uh it's like a a trend creditor, so to speak. But you know what I mean. Uh-huh. Do you think this film would have worked better as a traditional thriller versus the supernatural elements? What do you think? Because there's two roads to go here.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

There is, there is, and obviously, like I said in part two, they explain it more with the supernatural abilities that the the girl has. And then I didn't again, I just realised watching um Blackphone today, again, that the uh Finny also has a supernatural ability because we why would it how else would he be talking to his kids in the phone? I never grasped that because I'm thinking I'm thinking the the the sisters got these powers from the mother because who also used to have these nightmares and predict these things happening. I never put two and two together thinking she's passed it on to both her children, yeah, um as um you know these two different kind of tech kind of kind of powers. So um, what was your question again? So I've went on a tangent there. Do you think the film traditional thriller? Um did did I being honest, I think it would have worked. I think it I personally would have worked better with the more of a kind of traditional thriller kind of type thing. Um I'm thinking like kind of zodiac kind of type killer kind of type thing, that's like yeah, that's my kind of that's my kind of thing there. I did I do enjoy it for what it is because I absolutely love the black phone. I think it's one of the uh in the last what five five ten years it's one of the best horrors that I've that I've seen, hence why I picked it as a topic to talk about today. Yeah. Um I think just this kind of style of movie. Um but I think it would have you know, I think a lot of audience love it for what it is, it's great, but I think yeah, the kind of thriller route would have been executed.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

I think so as well. But to play devil's advocate in that, see if it was more of a traditional thriller, just with a child killer, uh-huh, and it wasn't marketed as a horror, I don't think it would have made as much money. I think it found its niche there.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

It's almost like as well, like Silence of the Lambs, like when it won at the Oscars, it wasn't under a horror character uh category, it's it's a thriller, yeah. And I again that's how black phone would have executed that and worked better that way as a thriller, not a horror. Yeah, um, but yeah, but again, it kind of like again we're talking about um going into black phone two, that kind of supernatural the we wouldn't be able to tell the story of the grabber or the grabber being in black phone two without those supernatural um kind of abilities or capabilities, you know. Um maybe that's for an episode with another episode to talk about black phone two, who knows? But um where it kind of reveals the kind of the as well his past. It was a bit yeah, it was okay, a bit underwhelming, but it explains a lot of the mother and ties in with the kids, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

I might I might give it a spin. Aye, right. So in the black phone, we don't see very much violence, especially between um the grabber and the kids, we don't see a lot of that on screen. No. Do you think the decision to keep that off-screen impacted the film positively or negatively?

SPEAKER_02 26:35

I think positive positively because uh you get to see the ghosts of the children who appear in the room to see you see what happened to them, you can see the visible scars and the mutilations that they've had on their bodies and their faces. So I think that um and the flashbacks to how they've been captured, to the how they look as ghosts. I think that it's enough to explain that. I don't think you need to go into kind of detail about what happened to them, the it's all there in their makeup, or yeah, you know what again explains what happened to them.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

I no, I I definitely agree. I think it's definitely more impactful because I think it walked a fine line and it stayed on the right side of the line, as far as I'm concerned, as you don't need only show as much as you absolutely have to, and let the audience fill in the gaps themselves. And it did a great job of doing that.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

I did really like for a very short story, because it was a very short story, yeah. They've they've made a great movie from that very short story and executed it well.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Yeah, you've said you think the black phone's up there for modern horror films. Where do you think it ranks with the rest of the kind of Blumhouse films?

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Um they've done they've done so many, right? So Blackphone is up there in the top five. You think so? Absolutely, absolutely. Hands down, it's up there in the top five. I'm trying to think what else they've done. They did Megan, yeah. They've done Megan.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Yeah, um was Blumhouse like do you remember the film Lights Out?

SPEAKER_02 27:55

It was just a bit of talk about lights out, yeah. Alright. Because that just came. I'm just thinking because the Blumhouse um intro was different, slightly different back then as well. Um was it like the ghost house? It was the ghost house, yeah, and it wasn't like going into the forest into the house and back out again, kind of type thing, or is it the girl that's walking across the room and the camera's like following it and it kind of shakes and kind of zooms in? Yeah, I'm sure it's changed from that. Um, but lights out again. Um I've I thought it was really underrated uh I thought so too. Horror movie, it it should be up there in the top, and they're I think they're doing a they're doing a sequel to Lights Out, nice, um, which I read recently. So um, but that was so underrated, it was such a well-crafted movie, and the story in it as well was fantastic. Um, but yeah, no, definitely uh Black Phone is up there in the top five. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Do you think the grabber is an all-time horror villain, or will he become an all-time horror villain, or simply a great modern one?

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Not a great all-time horror, but a great modern one. It's great to see him. I see a lot of pictures from conventions, and a lot of people are dressed as the grabber, you know, and it's such a obviously a simple character to dress up as, yeah. Um, but it's really he's really cool looking, and again, you can buy the masks, um, the masks from the sellers that sell them, etc. And they've got all the different pieces that come off, but I think he's such a creepy character when you're seeing them walking about in conventions and they've got the black balloons and all that kind of stuff, yeah. Yeah, so not an all-time horror character, but yeah, modern modern day horror. Because I'm sure in so many years' time they will do a black phone reboot or another sequel, who knows?

SPEAKER_01 29:29

But just on the back of that, can you see it with this and like I don't know how the story uh rounded out in the episode uh the second film, but do you see it becoming a long-running franchise or do you think it'll be a reboot? I hope not.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Because yeah, so I wasn't a huge fan of Blackphone 2. It was okay. Um because basically he's just a ghost in it. You know, so it's just kind of like the ending kind of sealed it off. Like if they brought him back into a third one and just kind of rehashed the kind of franchise, I just it's just gonna go down the same route like they do any other movie. So I think it's just good to leave it where they've left it. Obviously, they're not because it's gonna be a cash cow when you bring the grabber back. Um so I potentially see uh a reboot happening, but again, I don't want to see because I think the black phone is perfect, is it? You can't you can't change like you can't replace Ethan Hawk as the grabber and the characters and the style. I don't see the point in doing a reboot. It's like Did you see the reboot of Cabin Fever? No, have you seen Cabin Fever? I've seen Cabin Fever in another Eli Roth movie, I forgot to mention that one. So they yeah, so it was not made that long, it was only a few years, and then they done a reboot to it after what five, five, six years, they'd done a reboot and it was short, shot for shot. Oh, wasn't it? There was nothing different about it, just it was just more modernised, new characters, that's all it was. It was just shot for shot. It I honestly didn't see yeah, so it doesn't, yeah. Just leave Blackphone the way it is, just leave it nice. Serve it as it is.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

What would you score it out of five?

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Out of five, I would give it a four out of five, four out of five. There's some some things that would change, I think there were some aspects um of it. Um but when we're talking about child actors and stuff, and about you know, just about their emotions, etc. Again, they could have gone down the route where the movie could have been ruined. Well, maybe not not in your eyes, but in my eyes, where they have really uh annoying child actors in it that piss you off and you want them to die. Um I'm trying to think like the boy from Babaduk, yeah, and exactly you know, just some really annoying characters, but I genuinely had those emotions for them. I what I was rooting for them. The the girl that was uh was it Gwen? Was it Gwen? I think so. Yeah, Gwen. She her I thought her performance was when she's getting beat by her dad with a belt and her crying. I genuinely felt for her. I that performance was I was heartbroken when I saw that. I thought she was amazing and the way she was crying and just the emotions that were coming out. I genuinely felt so bad for her. I just wanted to go in and grab her and not to grab her, um, but just go in and take her away. Like I genuinely felt so bad for her. So um, but yeah, nice I didn't even feel a thing for her.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

No, that's because he doesn't have children, guys. I would I'd probably rate it about three, probably. Um, so what do you think is the most underrated aspect of the film? The most underrated aspect of the film is something that never happens in horror films, and that is the cops believed the girl. I thought that was so a left field for horror movies, yeah, because they'll say, no, shut up, go and figure it out by yourself. But the cops actually turned up with when they were needed at the wrong house. At the wrong house. At the wrong house. But uh, I thought that was a very underrated aspect of the film, just uh lads turning up when they need when they were needed to be there. I'm happy where it's at.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Yeah, I'm all I'm all good. Then I'll go home and be like, shit. I'm happy with it, yeah. I'm happy with it. And we'll leave it at that.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

Thanks very much, guys, for listening to this episode.