Episode 2: Dr. Daryl Appleton — Doing Less, Better

Psychotherapist-turned-executive-coach Dr. Daryl Appleton has worked with Fortune 500 C-suites, professional athletes, and Ivy League surgical teams — and along the way became a self-described "accidental" social media influencer. In this episode, Daryl joins Bethany to talk alignment over balance, imposter syndrome, influence leaks, and why doing less, better, might be the most useful career advice you hear all year. A Jersey girl at heart with a Brown University background in risky behavior, Daryl's ideas helped shape the theme of our October Bold in Business event: Better Than Balance. 

Connect with the Northern RI Chamber of Commerce:
🔗 Website: https://www.nrichamber.com/
📱 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nrichamber/ 
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/nrichamber 
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nrichamber 

Connect with Dr. Daryl Appleton:
🔗 Website: https://www.drdarylappleton.com/ 
📱 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdarylappleton/
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darylappleton/ 

Work & Wonder is a production of the Northern RI Chamber of Commerce, sponsored by Coastal1 Credit Union.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_03 0:00

You don't need to do more, you need to do less, and you need to do less better. Yeah. It's it I think so many times we we we are on this quest for doing more. I need to it needs to be more of a celebration. I need to do more for the holidays. I need to do more in my business. No, you don't. No, you don't. You need to do less, and you need to focus on what that less is by going through and seeing what values you have around success. And you need to do that better, and your world will change.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Welcome to Work in Wonder, a podcast from the Northern Rhode Island Chamber of Commerce, sponsored by Coastal One Credit Union, where we sit down with the leaders and inspiring humans shaping our communities to talk about their journeys, their curiosities, and the moments that shaped who they've become. I'm Lauren Malloy, and I'm Bethany Kent.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

On every episode, we go beyond the resumes and ribbon cuttings to get into the real story, how our guests got here, what they've learned along the way, and what still gives them a sense of wonder. Today's guest is Dr. Daryl Appleton, psychotherapist, turned executive coach, self-described accidental social media influencer, and someone who works with everyone, from Fortune 500 C-suite to professional athletes to Ivy League surgical teams.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

She grew up in an entrepreneurial family in New Jersey, played basketball at Stone Hill, and studied risky behavior at Brown before pivoting from clinical therapy to executive coaching. Twin mom, self-described Jersey girl who trades in high-stakes candor, and the person whose ideas actually helped shape the theme of our October Bolton business event, Better Than Balance.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

We sat down and talked to Lyman over balance, imposter syndrome, influence leaks, and why doing less better might be the most useful career advice you hear all year. I'll let you take it from here since this one's yours. Happy to. Likewise, the calling is absolutely it's mutual. And you are you have 47 titles that we could go through, but for me, psychotherapist, executive coach, um, you have your own company and you are wildly successful. And and really social media not volunteer, you know, you said you sort of became an influencer on accidentally. Accidental influencer. Um you started your journey started so young though that you said you felt like it was destined that in your eighth-grade yearbook you you wrote psychologist. I think mine was probably like Britney Spears is what I wanted to be or something. Um, where do you think that poll came from? You did a deep dive. I appreciate a deep dive. I will do with a scientist. I have to, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

Into it, very into it. I always loved why people do what they do. We were talking, you know, kind of before we we got on about serial killers and crime, true crime. And I've always been very into, you know, what makes a person do something. And then kind of on the other end of what makes people successful or what picks people different in that aspect too has always been and continues to be something I'm fascinated by of just observing and looking and trying to figure it all out. Yeah, which is really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

You are someone who've kind of played in high stakes, even from you played basketball at Stone Hill. You are were raised in a family where your dad was a musician, I believe, producer, or owns a studio. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

So my father was in the music industry my entire life. You know, had a record label for a second, played with Bon Jovi. His claim to fame is he played the guitar solo on Runaway. We cannot confirm that this is actually what's out for listeners now, but he's played with a lot of cool people. And he has a funny story where him and his twin brother were playing in a band and they rented a piano to the bar, and the piano made more money than they did that night. So they started a rental business. Okay. And then they kind of grew, and they're one of the biggest ones, uh, renting, doing production. That's awesome. Paul McCartney was just in the studio, Taylor Swift. So some pretty, you know, low-key cash names. Did the Appleton family attend the wedding? We did not. Oh, all right. But I have questions on why not.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

Yeah, it was worth me asking. Just then. So, you know, coming from a father who's an entrepreneur, obviously, like that spirit. What, you know, when the stakes are high in those pressure moments that you've been through with playing basketball and then starting your own job, you know, your own business, what separates good from great when the stakes are so high?

SPEAKER_03 4:34

I think it's the attention to detail. Yeah. And I think it's the passion that you put into a thing. You know, it was nice having an entrepreneur father because it was always easier to take risks. And there was always a champion behind me saying, like, well, what if you don't do it? Would that be scarier? And the answer to me was always yes. So I think there's this belief in yourself that you can do hard things and that self-narrative that comes with that from playing sports.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

So you started out researching risky behavior at Brown. Um, you built your private practice, and then you really did kind of a hard pivot into the executive coaching. Was there a moment where you realized like the therapy alone wasn't what you wanted to help people with? And it was more of like a more holistic approach.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

I think it was it was a few things. I think I started getting more people coming to me that didn't have anything wrong with them. Yeah. There's only so many adjustment disorders one can diagnose somebody with before insurance companies are like, what is happening here? And I always had that issue with insurance and like while it's really great on one end for a lot of things on the other end. Sometimes people are just going through human moments. So I was in a position where I had a lot of people in the C-suite. I played basketball, so I had a lot of athlete friends. And I had people come to me and they said, Hey, would you work with this athlete? Would you work with my board? And it was really this natural transition. And I love figuring out what's right with people rather than harping on what's wrong with them. And I think there's so much more that can come from mitigating things that are not great about you. Like, don't let them get in the way, but let's really invest in the stuff that works for you. And insurance doesn't cover that.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

True.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

I saw something where you said that you will like your style, your approach is you like to give people all of the facts and the research and then kind of let them make their own decisions. How does that style translate into the executive coaching? Like, how is that received? I guess.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

So I love doing these leadership dossiers. It's kind of like a psychological deep dive. It's my like criminal mind board where you're kind of putting everything together for a person. And a lot of times people, I think, are looking for self-awareness. Yeah. And they, whether they want to or not, sometimes it's under duress. But I think giving people information about themselves and allowing them to choose that, because it's not my job to choose what's best for you. It's my job to help you understand the patterns and what keeps getting in your way. And I think that's really been helpful in helping people find agency and be an active participant in their own lives, more so than just doing thinking and making decisions unconsciously almost sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

It's true. It makes sense. So you're a Jersey girl. Now you live in Rhode Island and you have described yourself, which I love as a Jersey girl who trades in high-stakes candor. How has that directness helped you in or worked against you? And I mean, you're in rooms with Fortune 500 executives and you're having your job because they are paying you to give that candor. How has that helped or hurt?

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Like that is a great question because sometimes it has helped and sometimes it has hurt. Um, I like to tell people I'm from Jersey because I think it clears up a lot of things. Yeah, there is noted. Right. Like I'm not light and fluffy. Yeah, I'm not a gentle parent. I'm not a gentle person. Uh, but my job really is to tell people here this is this is where you're messing up. Like that do you see the thing is happening again that you said didn't want to happen? And I'd be doing you a disservice if I didn't tell you that. So a lot of times it's helped in that way where I think people trust me because as a Jersey girl, I'm that friend that if you want to ask if I like your outfit, be ready to receive the answer. I'll say it with love, but I do think that loving critics are necessary in growth.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:23

On the other side, I learned very quickly when I had clients from all over the world now, but earlier on in my career in the country working in different areas, I had to be mindful that directness wasn't always well received, clutch your pearls, take a moment. Um, so I've learned a bit more to read a room. And there's different ways to be direct and still speak the language of the person in front of you.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Yeah, that was definitely something that I thought about as well as, you know, as you have branched out and grown your business, that do you really have to be thoughtful regionally about how you are approaching people?

SPEAKER_03 9:02

100%. A lot of my clients are in the south, and there's, you know, different bless your heart. Bless your heart. I was like, this is so kind. And somebody's like, nope. That's actually not. Yeah. No, ma'am. It sure isn't. But I think that there's something about it's a respect, right? It's not changing who I am. What I'm saying is the same thing. How I say it is different. And I think that's helped a lot personally and professionally. I have five-year-old twins. They're different, right? They're different kids. I have to say the same thing to them in different ways for them to understand. Because my job isn't to force my opinion or to um tell them the way that I need to tell them. It's to get them to understand so they can make their decisions around that. So that's part of the job.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

I love that there's like a direct correlation between how you are working with your five-year-old twins and how you're working with Fortune 500 CEOs. And yet, I see it.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Get ready, world. They're coming. Yep, those twins are going on.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

They've got the entrepreneurial spirit and they're coming. Um, you're gonna join us for our Bolden business on October 15th. And when you and I and Monica, our president CEO, met and talked about what we wanted that theme to be, something that really resonated with us is better than balance. So I want to talk about that a little bit here, kind of preview what people can expect from that uh event and encourage people to register and join us at nrichamber.com. But streamless plug. But I think your whole platform kind of per pushes back on the work-life balance myth. What is it about the word balance that you think is yucky and kind of sets high performers up to fail?

SPEAKER_03 10:41

I think it's the worst thing that you could strive for is balance. And I definitely think, yes, press pause, go sign up. We'll see you there because we're gonna get into it more. But I definitely think that the balance wellness industry has left us well-ish. And there's no such thing. I've never seen it. I've never seen it in theory, I've never seen it in practice, I've never seen somebody be able to balance all the spinning plates at once and feel successful or be happy doing it. So I think that by shifting the narrative, and I'm a big fan of operationally defining things. I think we need to make sure we understand the words we are intentionally using. And I think you need to figure out what are you actually seeking? Because you're using balance, but that's probably not what you're looking for. You're probably looking for alignment and something a little bit different. And that's kind of what I really harp on is that alignment piece.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

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SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yeah, tell us more about the alignment. Like if someone's trying to build that for the first time, or they feel like they're someone that is trying to harp on balance, if you will, right? Like I'm looking for alignment in my life, Dr. Daryl Appleton.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Tell me where do I start? Great question. To me, it's defining what that is. So, what I like to do with clients anytime I sit down with a new one is I go through this exercise, and you all can too. Take pen to paper, not on your phone, not on your laptop, pen to paper. Lots of research about a full brain activity, holding something, writing something down. We've gotten away from it. Oh, analog. Pen to paper. And I want you to write down what success means for you as an individual.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

And then I want you to write down what success means for you professionally. And then I want you to write down what success means for you as a family or familially, whether that's your ideas about success that you were taught or what you want for your family in the dimension of success. And then I want you to look at it from your deathbed. What would you have needed to live a successful life? And then you're gonna go back through and you're gonna circle the same word that comes up in each dimension because it will be there. And if you're like, I'm writing the same thing over and over, Daryl, great. That is data saturation and qualitative, you know, inquiry. Talk nerdy to me. Thank you. I love it. I love it. But really, the words you're left with, those are your success values. So if you're saying words like freedom, stability, happiness, I would challenge you to define what happiness means. Then I want you to start making choices, choices around freedom, happiness, stability. And anything that is not that, aggressively get rid of it because it is draining your bucket, so to speak. So I think it starts with this like deep dive understanding of what do you want? What are you looking for? And really naming what that is. And then the alignment piece happens when you make conscious choices to go after the thing you said you wanted.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

So once you've done that work, like you've said success feels different than people expect once they actually get there. What's that the gap between what people think it will feel like and what it actually feels like?

SPEAKER_03 14:07

I think I've worked with a lot of people with a lot of money, you know, the bee in front of it all, like the billionaires out there. And a lot of them will say, Beyonce.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Oh, oh, billionaires. Not yet. Not yet.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Call me though. But I do think that you can have a ton of money, a ton of power, a ton of prestige, and feel lonely. Yeah. Many times those people are saying their family doesn't speak to them, or they've sacrificed a relationship with their kids, or their significant others, or they're retiring. A lot of legacy planning that I've done with people is like, now what? My identity was so much in what I did, I don't know who I am anymore. So I do think that there is this gap because we're taught as high performers to go after it, like get the thing. But when you look again, nerding out, when you look at dopamine, it's about the pursuit of something. It's not actually in the holding or the having of it. So we're always looking for the next thing. And life just kind of passes us by if we don't stop and say, Is this what I want? Is this what I want for me? And just gut checking ourselves on that to make sure you're still on that path to alignment.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

I've read a lot recently too about millennial burnout is the right phrase for what I'm trying to say, but really elder millennials, millennials of kind of and I see it amongst my friend group of people in their early, late 30s, early 40s, of I kind of experienced it myself of feeling like keep going, keep going, keep going. And then your priorities shift. And and that becomes you kind of redefine what success looks like for you at a certain age. And I think is that something that you're seeing too with people that you work with?

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Like, yeah, I mean, I just did a feeling's another F-word podcast episode on this idea of famished and exactly what you're talking about. We were raised to achieve, but we're also being targeted by pla places like McKinsey and you know, things like that, where high achievement is being sought after, but insecure high achievement is the thing that people are recruiting for. Because if I know you're an insecure high achiever, I know I can give you a little bit of that. You're doing a great job at a girl, and you're gonna keep coming back for more and more and more because you're dependent on that to feel like you matter or you feel like you're doing something. So I think as geriatric millennials, myself, me, a geriatric millennial, not you, there is an element that we were raised to go after it, to do whatever it takes, to lean in. And those things aren't necessarily bad, but like anything, without breaks, it becomes dangerous. So I think retraining ourselves to ask at what cost and to whom, and is it worth it is a question that comes up a lot time and time again for me and what I bring to sessions with clients.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

What's one thing that a business owner, big or small, listening right now, could do today to move toward alignment instead of choosing a balance?

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yeah, the exercise I said before pen to paper, write down your your dimensions of success and your definitions of each, again, individual, family, professional, and then your deathbed. You could even do it with your team as well. Yeah. Cause I find that to be fascinating, where my definition of success is freedom for me. I don't take on contracts or clients where I feel like I don't have freedom to create or innovate or freedom of my time or energy. And knowing your employees is really important so you can set them up for success as well as yourself. If you're doing a ton of jobs that, as small business owners do, I never met anybody that loved macrame and they're like, you know what? Accounting as well, customer service, right? Like for the creativity of it, but they take on every job because they have to. That then is a sign to me of, okay, well, what is success? And maybe the reason you're feeling not as successful is because you need to outsource. It's economics. There's only so much time and energy. And maybe you bring home less now, but it will yield more later on, and you'll feel better about it. So start with your definitions of success. You can do that in 15 minutes or less. Bring it to your next team meeting, and you'll be really surprised, I think, about how people feel about the direction that they are going within the direction you are going as a company.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

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SPEAKER_02 18:58

You work with Fortune 500 C-suites, as we talked about. Pro sports franchises. But I really think the Ivy League surgical teams is really interesting. And you touched on a little bit of the leadership dossiers. I have to say it that way every time. Um talk to me a little bit about more of those and the psychology. How does that matter in the strategy in those rooms? And I am specifically interested in the surgical because I think it's really I'm nerdy and I think it's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Surgeons are fascinating, and I love working with them because I don't know if you can get more high stakes, high burnout. For sure. And I love speaking to them because they're like, don't tell me the story, give me the bullet points. And I'm like, oh, this is amazing. Like, doot doot do. And they're like, great, thank you. So there's something really wonderful about working with them. And I do think that they have been a demographic that hasn't necessarily had the executive coach, the leadership training. They're not taught, they're taught how to be doctors, they're not taught how to be leaders. It doesn't mean they're not great leaders. It just means like there is a whole world of education around physician leadership and supporting them in a way that matches the cadence and the tone and what they need at that time. So I love working with Brown. I love working with my surgeons at Brown. My husband's a surgeon, so like I'm saving all the spouses out there. You're welcome. Some of the shenanigans. You are welcome. Um, but the dossiers have really been eye-opening for them specifically. I know I was working with one of their divisions and they were having a little personality issues, but when I laid the dossiers out there, it was almost like giving them labs, right? Like underneath the surface. So it could present as one thing, you know, when you see the the patient in the room for them in their mind speaking their language. But once you get the blood work, the lab work, the CT scan, they were like, oh, I have a deeper understanding of what's actually happening. So giving them that information, they were really able to say, like, oh, this person isn't difficult. Like, this is how they manage their anxiety. They withdraw. And being able to talk about those things in a way that felt productive and not fluffy and not like, everyone go around the circle and tell me what your favorite animal is and why. I think it was a bit more, what I need from this team is this. And when I'm overwhelmed, this is what I see in myself. And being able to present them with a literally book, which is what I do of here's everybody's psych profile, so to speak, um, based on the assessments that we do and every interaction uh that I have in the interviews, and giving them as a playbook on how to have an environment that is one they want to show up in and work hard in and can support each other in that tough but not toxic way.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Do you find that one group, like either the sports franchise people or the CEOs of Fortune 500 or the surgeons, who is like receives that playbook and those profiles better than others?

SPEAKER_03 21:50

I think it's individual specific. That makes sense. Uh they are very similar though, all three that you mentioned the C suite, the pro athletes and the surgeons. They all have an athletic mindset and mentality. That whole like corporate athlete thing is a very real thing because they show up, they train, they want to do the best. They're very competitive, usually against themselves. And there is something about that type of person that speaks to me. If I have to get you motivated, you're probably not the right person for me to work with.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

But if you're like, how do I harness this energy and do better with what I have? Then yeah, let's sit and talk.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

You talk about influence leaks, which is I want you to describe that to me, but basically like moments where people lose the influence they've built because stress kicks in. What does that look like in real time? How does someone stop the leak?

SPEAKER_03 22:42

How you behave matters, especially as a leader. And I tell a lot of my leaders, you cannot be the thermometer in the room. You cannot reflect back whatever you feel in that moment. You need to be the thermostat. You have to set the temperature in the room, even if you are leading from where you sit, your first day on the job, if you are calm, cool, and collected in a moment where it's high stakes and you say, Everybody take a breath, what is the problem? Automatically you are going to have way more influence in that moment than you could ever think. Same thing on the leak side. If you are the leader and you're screaming and yelling at everybody, you may still have quote power, but you have lost influence.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

And if because nobody's perfect, we're all human, if you find yourself as a leader where you've had a moment where you've leaked, what's a good advice or something that you see as a way that they can come back from that and try to regain that influence and trust from their team? Self-awareness.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

I messed up. Call it out. Call it out. Yeah. The other day, I did not handle that correctly. Because what that does psychologically is now I can trust that, not that you will ever mess up again, but if you do, you understand what you did and you were able to make it right and you were able to come to me and talk to talk about it, no matter what position that you're in, high or low. I don't know where it became cool to not apologize or uh that it's weak to say sorry. Um, I also struggle sometimes with like, if you're late to a meeting, you should say I apologize. I'm late, not like thank you for waiting. Like I feel multiple ways about those type of things. Like you're allowed to say sorry. Take ownership of it, right? Yeah. You're allowed to say sorry. Don't say sorry if you don't mean it. Don't say sorry because you think you need to in order to gain this person's favor. But if you mess up, which you will, bandwidth is an issue for all of us. If you've lost your bandwidth in that moment and you had a section, sure, then you you say that like I did not handle that the way that you deserved and that I deserved.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

That makes sense. Um, talking about imposter syndrome, what are the defenses that people build around it that that ends up making it worse? And and how do we recognize that that's happening to us? Or that we're, you know, that that is hurting us. Yeah. Even if we don't know the the term.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Yeah, this is started in the 70s. Clancy and I'm studied women and they found that 80% of women had imposter syndrome. It the spit studies have expanded and men, uh, marginalized populations, they all have it and sometimes at higher rates. To me, it goes into on one hand, if you've never done something, you're going to feel some type of way about the thing. I think imposter syndrome really starts to rear its ugly head when you're just waiting for them to find out you're a fraud. When you're making decisions out of fear rather than out of competency. And some of the different traits of imposter syndrome look like somebody who needs to gather all the information and they're stalling because they're hoarding knowledge. Um, sometimes it leaks through how you show up. You know, you want to do everything by yourself. You don't ask for help. You're not looking for help because if you do, then you're weak. So there are certain things that we can look at around ourselves with imposter syndrome. But I think the main thing for me, and I'm gonna keep going back to it, is self-awareness. And how do you become more self-aware? Honestly, people like me, yeah, not to say you need to hire somebody, but drgeralapleton.com. WWW No. Um, but I do think that there is radical honesty with yourself and having loving critics around you to tell you about yourself and what you who you are and what you're not, and listening to feedback. And not all feedback, but seeking out patterns, understanding when they show up, understanding your feelings, understanding how you show up in the world around you. It's a complicated process, but you can absolutely get there.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

And do you think for someone day-to-day who's looking for that is a is a good step for someone who's maybe never done therapy at all, doing therapy, or I mean, seeking out an executive coach, or like what's their first action step to try to do a little research themselves online? Like, what do you think is an actionable step for that?

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Yeah, I think absolutely get familiar online. Therapy is going to dive more into your schemas, which is who you are, how that built up, your mother, what happened, tell me about yourself, you know, like the first time somebody hurt you, like, let me know. Executive coaching, on the other hand, is all of that stuff exists. Where you are right now is this. Here's the problem ahead. Here's what's showing up, here's what you need. We're gonna practice your public speaking skills. You have a fundraising thing and you hate asking people for money. Let's talk about that and let's role play that and give you the actual skills to do that. So it is different in function. The psychology remains the same. Not all therapists and executive coaches are created equal. So definitely do your research, check their credentials, meet with them, see if you vibe, and just know that if you're going on the therapy route, like insurance is involved in some capacity, unless you're paying out of pocket and executive coaching is not a billable service. But if you're with a company, ask them to sponsor you for it. Or if you're an owner, set aside time for your own professional development, not just your staff. Because to me, I'm biased, it is crucial because I want you to feel good about the work you're doing so you can do it longer, so you can do it better, so you feel better about what it is that you're so passionate to start that business or to dedicate your life to the thing that you've decided to show up for more than you're at, your family with your family.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Have you found that the more you work with the high-level CEOs, have you seen them then implement that for their staff?

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think really maybe not great, um, but really good leaders, great leaders to seek it for themselves and then see the value. And there's a bit of a conversion where they're like, everybody should, why isn't everybody doing this? And I find too that the people not in the C-suite don't have as much access to it. So I'm working on a few things online to give people access to things uh and assessments that they can use that don't have to be at the C-suite, but still get that self-awareness. Because I don't think our emerging leaders have as much access to it because they think it's only for the C-suite. But I think you can use it at any level for anything.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

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SPEAKER_02 29:32

You're a twin mom. We talked about your five-year-old twin girls, right? Who I have seen on social media and I'm obsessed. Um, you know, you're running your own practice, you have your your podcast, and uh what does, you know, a balanced week, we don't like that word, but what do you try to do each week to feel aligned?

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Survive, yeah, right? Survive. That feels like the honesty.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

I saw you say something that really resonated with me, which was uh either a rubber ball or a glass ball. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna take that one. But that to me is how like week to week, especially if you are parenting and working and doing all of those things. And so tell us about the the rubber ball versus glass ball.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

I think that everybody makes decisions and they all feel critical, like, oh my god, the email. If I don't send this, if I don't get this done. Some things are glass where if you do not get it done and you drop the ball, it will shatter. It will shatter and break, and you cannot put it together. Some things are rubber. Like I, you know, I was five minutes late to an appointment this morning because my kids are doing Newport camp and I was foolish enough to think that the traffic would bend to me. Sure. And I was like, you know what? Why am I stressing out about this? I just texted her and I said, Hey, I'll be five minutes late. And she said, Okay, right. It was a rubber ball in that moment. If I'm late every week, it could turn into a glass ball where I might then lose that client where she might think I am not trustworthy to show up on time. But in that moment, I was like, Okay, if I drop this, it will bounce. I can get it back somewhere else. So I guess a bit of it is grace with yourself. I'm also a very big fan of everything you just mentioned that I do. I try to be very honest with it, especially online, of showing you the messy side. Yeah. Showing you that I think I did a reel and I was like, you might be crushing it at work, but your house looks like a disaster. And I showed my home, which was a disaster. And my husband was horrified. And I was like, people need to know. People need to know you can't do your laundry and the dishes and you know, work 40 hours and be with the kids and like make popsicle crafts. Like, that's not a thing, and that's okay. Sometimes your kids they need to be fed, sometimes it's cheerios on the floor. That they need to be fed all the time. They keep eating. I don't know about you guys, but they keep, they don't stop every single second. They need a snack, but sometimes it's Cheerios off the floor, and that's the best that I'm doing in that moment because they won't sit down and eat a beautiful breakfast.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

What's something you've had to let go of? A standard, an expectation, like a version of having it all that to make your life work for you.

SPEAKER_03 32:11

I've had to let go of the fact that I can't do everything. Yeah. I can do anything, but I cannot do everything and I cannot do it all at the same time. So I have an emotional support post-it note on my desk. Oh, I love it. And it says, do the first thing first. Okay. And I look at it and I'm like, ooh, yeah, like I haven't eaten. Yeah. It's shocking. I'm feeding everybody else. Yeah. Or send the email before you worry about the brief. Like the email needs to be sent. So like start there. Because I think a lot of times we get ahead of ourselves, especially as high performers. We're thinking about all of it and maximizing when the first thing you need to do is get a measuring cup full of Cheerios and send the email and then go from there.

SPEAKER_02 32:48

Okay, here at Work and Wonder, the podcast. We want to know, we like to ask everyone what's something you're, and this could be what we just talked about, but what's something you're endlessly curious about right now in your work outside of work in your life?

SPEAKER_03 33:02

How to survive five-year-old twins. I'm I'm very curious about how people do it. Cause some days I'm like, hmm, yeah, I can see these rich aunties and and where they uh where they get all their furs from. No, I think I'm I'm very interested in learning the world again through my kids' eyes. I know that sounds like cliche, but I am interested in what they're interested in. So we got a book and it's this like one question a day. And it asks them like silly things like if you had a hundred dollars, what would you buy? And I do it with each of them separately. And that's fascinating to me of what they come up with and the people that they bring into their stories that we've met. So Judy Goffman Cutler is a very good friend of ours. She runs the new uh National Illustration Museum in Newport. She has more Norman Rockwells, or almost as many Norman Rockwells as the Norman Rockwell Museum. Interesting. And she started as a housewife and she found, you know, an Ickhart painting in her in-laws' basement and started this massive career as an art dealer and collector. And it was so funny because we go there and we look at the art, and one of the questions was, who would you want to have dinner with? And it was like, mom, dad, my my parents, sister, and Judy. And I was like, it's so nice. So I'm really interested in again seeing the world through their eyes, connecting with people, intergenerational spaces, like I'm super passionate about. And I don't know, learning as much as I can about people and their stories. Like I don't know, I genuinely occupational hazard, but I love that.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

If you could go back and tell the Daryl who was just starting her private practice one thing, what would it be? Is it is it there's gonna be five-year-old twins coming and they're they're coming for you.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Uh yeah, you can't work 14-hour days anymore. You're just gonna work them differently. Um, I think I would tell her to surround yourself with people who know more than you on the things that you don't know. I think starting a business, and again, like I said before, having to do the accounting and the bookkeeping and being like, I can do it myself. I should be able to. I wish earlier on I would have gotten more help with that and not have thought so much about it because Lord knows it's freed me up to do a lot more stuff because I don't have to navigate the piece that I am frankly not good at and do not like.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Look at that self-awareness, right? Self-aware. I think that does make such a difference. And I think a lot of our business owners, small business owners especially, would be interested in hearing that of like where you can, where you can figure that out, how to finance, you know, outsourcing. For the business owners and working parents listening, feel like they they're the chase the back to the balance. We're gonna do better than the balance. What's a piece of honest advice? They're chasing balance, they're never ending, it's just endless. Like, what honest advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_03 35:49

You don't need to do more, you need to do less, and you need to do less better. Yeah, it's it, I think so many times we we we are on this quest for doing more. I need to, it needs to be more of a celebration. I need to do more for the holidays, I need to do more in my business. No, you don't. No, you don't. You need to do less and you need to focus on what that less is by going through and seeing what values you have around success. And you need to do that better. And your world will change. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Okay. We play a fun game here at Work in Wonder with everybody. We do a closing rapid fire. Okay, let's do it. Um your podcast feelings and other F-words of love. What do you have a favorite episode that you're proudest of?

SPEAKER_03 36:30

The one I did uh two weeks ago on freedom. Okay. That was a great one of just personal freedom because it blew my mind. Um, truly, when I was looking at the research, and uh I realized that freedom isn't keeping all your options open, it's being aware enough to close a door and say no to a thing for for real, for good.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

And as a research girly, sure. Uh, what's a piece of research you find yourself you keep coming back to? That Tasha Yurich, self-awareness, hands down. What was they 85, 15 or something? Yeah, yeah. They think they are and they're not. Yep. Um one word your daughters would use to describe you.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Um it depends on the day. It depends on the day, but I think they would probably say mom is mom is fun. Oh, that's a good one. Hopefully. Hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

They matter. Well, you're taking them to Judy's, so that's no. There's so much I do.

unknown 37:26

Dr.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

Daryl Appleton, thank you so much for joining us. We love having you, and we are looking forward to having you at our Bolden Business October 15th.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Sign up, see you all there. Thank you guys. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

That conversation genuinely changed how I'm thinking about my own to-do list. Dr. Daryl Appleton spends her days inside the heads of Fortune 500 CEOs, pro athletes, and surgeons. And her biggest piece of advice for the rest of us is still figure out your values, then aggressively cut whatever doesn't serve them.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

I keep coming back to the rubber ball versus glass ball idea. It's such a simple way to triage a chaotic week without trying to be perfect at everything. Do less, better is my takeaway for the week.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

For our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, follow Work in Wonder wherever you get your podcast and leave us a review. It really helps other listeners find us. And if today's conversation resonated, join us in person. Dr. Daryl Appleton will be at our bold in business event on October 15th, 2026, for a live discussion on Better Than Balance. You can register for that event and learn more about the Northern Rhode Island Chamber of Commerce at NRIChamber.com.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Work in Wonder is a production of the Northern Rhode Island Chamber of Commerce. Hosted by me, Lauren Malloy, and Bethany Kent, with guest hosting by Monica Zuluaga. Executive producers are Lauren Malloy and Bethany Kent for the Northern Rhode Island Chamber of Commerce. Editing by Lauren Malloy. Coordinator for the Northern Rhode Island Chamber, Bethany Kent. Production assistance by Emma Kazarowski of Central Bank and Emily Gates of the United Way of Rhode Island. Mixed and mastered by Rutna Creative Lab. Audio Engineer Dan Phillips. Season one of Work and Wonder made possible by Coastal One Credit Union. Special thanks to the Northern Rhode Island Chamber Emerging Leaders Council for their ideas and enthusiasm in shaping Work and Wonder.