The Wolf : Fact Or Fang Fiction? (w/ Teen Wolf's Melissa Ponzio)

Wolves have been cast as villains for centuries, but does the science back it up? In this episode, Comedian Helen Hong and Zoologist Dr. Jo Wimpenny are joined by Teen Wolf's Melissa Ponzio aka Mama McCall  to dig into the biology, folklore, and pop‑culture PR disaster that turned a perfectly normal predator into the Big Bad Wolf. 

Then Dr. Wimpenny offers a surprising creature that might really be a "wolf in sheep's clothing." 

 Follow the show so you never miss an episode — and share it with a friend who loves animals, fairy tales, or pop culture.

Credits
Host:  Helen Hong 

Animal Expert:  Zoologist Dr. Jo Wimpenny
Guest:  Melissa Ponzio 

Exec Producers: Robin M. Henry, Aaron Mervis 

Producer: Emily Orr 

Line Producer:  James Lovewell 

Editor:  Alex Ivany

Artwork: Cliff Barrett  

Special Thanks:  Second Floor Studios 

Transcript

Helen Hong 0:00

What's big, bad, and apparently dresses in grandma drag? The wolf. No animal has been more maligned in stories and fables. They are a bedtime's public enemy number one. If anything goes wrong in any fairy tale, everyone knows to point the finger at the big bad wolf. Nobody's warning children in bedtime stories about the really raucous raccoon or the low-down lizard. It's always the big bad wolf. They're blowing down houses of sticks and straw. They're wearing grandma's bonnet. They're being played by Leonardo DiCaprio swindling Wall Street. Meanwhile, Goldilocks gets caught up in a straight-up felony and no one's calling her Goldigone Rogue. So why is the wolf the only one to be called out? What if all these myths and idioms we've created around these animals are wrong? What if wolves aren't big and bad? Have wolves been unfairly framed by fables? That's what we're gonna talk about right now. I'm your host, Helen Hong.

Jo Wimpenny 1:12

And I'm your weird zoology friend, Joe Wimpany.

Helen Hong 1:15

We embrace weird zoologists, Joe. There's nothing weird about being a zoologist here on Frame by Fables. I'm happy to provide that. And joining us today to talk about wolves is uh an actor with key roles on Reasonable Doubt, Chicago Fire, The Walking Dead. But to so many fans, she's forever known as Mama McCall, the woman who deftly dealt with supernatural beings and teenage drama on the iconic TV series Teen Wolf. Welcome, Melissa Ponzio. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Thank you so much, Helen and Joe. It's really great to see you. Thanks for having me.

Helen Hong 1:54

Thanks for joining us. And we're talking about wolves, and I know you're not a wolf expert, but you were ostensibly a werewolf mother for many years.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

A wolf adjacent for many seasons, yes, and happy to be so.

Helen Hong 2:09

So in the series Teen Wolf, is it like the traditional concept of a werewolf where like the full moon happens and suddenly your teenage son is like twitching and fur is growing out of his, you know, and his nails are getting longer and he just turns into this beast.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

On our show, it's a bite, you know. I mean, there's different lore with werewolves and you know genetics and how it's passed on, but for our show it was a bite, and yes, full moon uh affected many, many people on the show. And then we had these um conglomerate breeds on the show of actually different animals that were together, and so it was wolves and and wolves subdivision of other things and yeah, it was it was really it was really a wonderful show um of of bringing um different genetics together as well.

Helen Hong 2:55

Now, how much did you know about wolves before being cast on this show? And how much do you now know about wolves? Like, did you did the did your knowledge of wolves increase because of this, because you were cast on this show?

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Well, I'll say my um, you know, my uh what is it, six degrees of separation of wolves came to one because we were actually exposed to wolves at times, and so we were able to actually see these majestic animals in posters. Oh, you had real wolves on the show? Not on the show, um, but in in like, you know, our show was lucky enough to um have kind of like an international base, and so at various conventions they would actually have naturalists and people bring wolves, and so we were able to meet them over in France, and and yeah, and um I I will say that the special effects, I I did not have to go through the special effects process, but our our team was amazing. Bite Mares was the um the special effects crew that came in to do the nails. Yeah, do the nails, do the eyes, do the ears, do the skin, you know, the hair, the skin, and everything. And it took them anywhere from an hour and a half up to maybe even four hours when they were doing uh, you know, really, really intricate prosthetics.

Helen Hong 4:09

I'm still blown away by the fact that you've met an actual wolf. Joe, I've never met a wolf. Joe, have you met a wolf?

Jo Wimpenny 4:18

No, I haven't met a wolf. Um, I really would have wanted to when I was writing about wolves in my in my chapter, but it was during the pandemic. Um so travel was off.

Helen Hong 4:29

Even the wolves were locked down. The wolves were masked, they were in the forest, they were not coming out.

Jo Wimpenny 4:35

And how did you, yeah, what did you feel about them, Melissa, when you saw them up close?

SPEAKER_02 4:40

They what I remember is that they moved really majestically and fast, and innately you knew not to f with them. To be quite honest. You know, I mean, there was just something about them that was, again, um, wild. Your own instinct kind of perks up when you see one. It's that thing of like, how often do you see a unicorn, right? I mean, a wolf is there literally on the stage with you, and it's kind of doing that, you know, sharking about and and you know, and smelling, and you know, always, always, you can see that they're always kind of uh, you know, looking around, seeing, assessing, I guess.

Helen Hong 5:16

Tracking you with their eyes. Tracking you.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Yes. Yes. It was wild. We had to be very still. The handlers were very capable and wonderful to share them with us and the people that were there at the convention, but it was it was an experience.

Helen Hong 5:31

Oh my goodness, you had to be very still because if you like made sudden movements, you were suddenly prey.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Or just, you know, pulling focus. And I don't know if you want to do that with a wolf.

Helen Hong 5:42

Oh my goodness, I'm so jealous. I've always wanted to meet a wolf. I mean, wolves is actually part of the reason why I wanted to be part of this project, you know, this podcast, because I feel like wolves are so maligned and so slandered and, you know, and just have been butchered over history.

Jo Wimpenny 6:03

We think today that wolves um are generally always persecuted, but actually if you go back um back to sort of the ancient Greek and Roman times, wolves were held in pretty high esteem. Um so it's really only kind of once we get into the dawn of Christianity and medieval times that wolves started to be basically public enemy number one. Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

Helen Hong 6:29

Wasn't a wolf the one that r like originated Rome? Like r Romulus and Remus was was suckled by a wolf?

Jo Wimpenny 6:37

Yeah. It was a she wolf. So Romulus and Remus were cast out of the kingdom by a jealous king, and a she-wolf actually suckled them um and cared for them until they were discovered by by someone else who was able to actually take them on. So so she-wolves have been a really important symbol in Roman culture and and I think even up until the 1960 Olympics. I love it.

Helen Hong 7:01

I love the term she-wolf. The wild. Yeah.

Jo Wimpenny 7:09

But then, of course, other places, wolves just became taken as kind of a literal embodiment of the devil. And once an animal is taken as, you know, devil, antichrist, um, evil in that kind of way, then it's it's an obligation to eliminate the country of it. So I mean, here in the UK, things things were going pretty badly um early on. So there was one king, he was actually called Edgar the Peaceful, um, and this is in like the 10th century, possibly even earlier, actually, who demanded tax payments in the form of wolf heads. So wolves were already being persecuted then.

Helen Hong 7:54

Edgar the Peaceful, come on, so not peaceful. He's like, bring me the heads of the wolf.

Jo Wimpenny 8:01

No, it's not peaceful, Edgar. It was Edward I, King of England, in the thirteenth century, who ordered the elimination of all wolves. Um by about the 1600s, they were eliminated from Scotland. Some of them clung on in Ireland till 1700s, but after that they've been gone from from the British Isles and pretty soon after throughout Europe as well. And of course, the Europeans brought that anti-wolf sentiment to America. So um so the persecution has been pretty rampant.

Helen Hong 8:36

This is something that blows my mind because I did I did know this. So currently there are zero wolves in the UK. Correct. And in the wild. And meanwhile, they were indigenous to the UK. So there were tons of wolves at one point in the UK, and they've been hunted to literal extinction. That yes blows my mind that you they can go from like all over the place to literally zero population.

Jo Wimpenny 9:03

Yeah. Yeah. What a shame. Wolves, there's something about wolves that people just really object to. Uh as I think people are fascinated and so, so fearful of these animals. Um and like you say, Melissa, there's so much more to them. They're so fascinating. Absolutely. It's it's such a shame.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

And then I, you know, I wonder what does that do do to an ecosystem when you take out a predator like that? Like, I wonder what ran wild then, because you know, wolves have jobs. We all have jobs in nature, and I'm just wondering like what then like took over or you know, was more in abundance than it should have been.

Jo Wimpenny 9:43

Well, in the UK, deer. Um, and I think it's probably the same in a lot of places. So um our largest native predator is now the European Eurasian badger. The badger.

Helen Hong 9:59

I would not have pegged the badger to take over Wolfdom. He's like, I'm number one now.

Jo Wimpenny 10:05

Woohoo! Move over. Badgers are taken over. Badger and then the red fox. So neither of those are gonna do much against the large deer that just run rampant across the British landscape.

Helen Hong 10:20

Okay, so let's talk about specifically the stories in history, like Little Red Riding Hood, you know, and three little pigs. They both had kind of a big bad wolf character.

Jo Wimpenny 10:33

Hmm. Yeah, Big Bad Wolf, um, so many stories, uh pretty much always the same character. Wolves are always the villain. Um so Aesop's fables, for example, there are loads of the fables which include a wolf. And essentially, if there's a wolf in the fable, it's going to be killing something, or it's going to be trying to trick something so that it can eat it. And on the few occasions where it doesn't succeed, the moral of the fable from the from the wolf's perspective is that it should have stuck to its trade as the butcher and it shouldn't have been you know, it shouldn't have sort of gone away from what it really is. So all of these fables, the wolf is just depicted as very savage, depicted as uh sneaky, um always always out to to steal and always trying to kill, oftentimes the sheep. And oftentimes tricking the the dogs, which are supposed to be protecting the sheep.

Helen Hong 11:33

I love the story of Little Red Riding Hood where the wolf literally is dressed like grandma. Yeah. It's just good ones. Which I don't know uh, you know, what is that the dress like grandma, and then you know, that concept of a wolf in sheep's clothing, like a wolf like disguising itself as something else to sneak in and you know grab a snack. Um is that does that come from Aesop, Joe?

Jo Wimpenny 12:06

Yes. So the wolf in sheep's clothing is one of the Aesop's fables. Um and of course, in the fables, it was again it was about dish deceiving the shepherd so that the wolf could sneak in and get an easy meal. So the wolf disguised itself in an in a sheep's clothing and was able to evade detection. And then as the centuries passed after that, the fear grew not from a fear of wolf wolves taking livestock, which was a very real fear for a lot of people, but a fear of wolves actually trying to trying to get us. And so that's then how it kind of morphed into Little Red Riding Hood and other stories about wolves kind of lurking round in the dark, in the woods, always being that kind of persistent threat to us.

Helen Hong 12:57

Aaron Ross Powell So there's probably a little bit of truth to that, um, where the the wolf is trying to snatch livestock. But wolves historically did they actually attack humans?

Jo Wimpenny 13:08

I mean it's hard to really know. Uh of course they they must have done.

Helen Hong 13:13

But not like all the time. Like, you know, like No.

Jo Wimpenny 13:18

No. And once people were persecuting them, wolves just became extremely scared of us. So so wild wolves today, they're extremely um well, they're they're terrified of humans. It's kind of built into them that they need to be fearful because they're an apex predator, but we're even bigger than they are, you know, in terms of the the damage that we can do. Um so the way that wolves hunt is they're pursuit hunters. You know, they're incredibly well adapted, they're long legs, um, they can run over long distances, and their tactic is basically just to chase down prey. Um and normally that's that's old animals, or that's sick animals, or you know, that's the young ones that can't keep up with the rest of the herd. So if they were going to be attacking people, it it similarly it might be that they they might prey upon people who were injured or um on their own or potentially just present as as an easy target, but they certainly wouldn't have been, you know, running through villages, uh like breaking into houses and trying to snatch people from the wearing grandma's clothing.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I find it so interesting that we're talking about this that these, you know, these wolves that we're talking about are shown in fables to be camouflaged of sorts. And I know some animals do that. You know, the fact that, you know, they gotta, these authors had to put these wolves in drag, you know, is such an interesting thing. But um wolves aren't out there trying to pretend like they're something else, you know. I mean, they're not necessarily you know, hiding behind a bush in a in a ghillie suit or anything, right? I mean, historically, that's not what the wolf's true vibe is. Do you think that they just did that in the story to try try to? I mean, how did they even come up with the concept of literally a wolf posing as something else? Is that just to scare us?

Jo Wimpenny 15:15

I think they just they were extremely creative in these stories, and I think that's just another way that they could paint um a wolf as being kind of the antithesis of of what we consider to be moral and good. Um we kind of uh picked all of this and and sort of dumped it onto the character of the wolf, kind of all of the things that we don't like about um other people, all of the traits that we think are are bad. Um so I think it it's just that. We just kind of created all of these stories.

Helen Hong 15:47

Another major um like story like you know that goes way, way back is the three little pigs, where the three little pigs like build different s houses and then the wolf comes down and blows their house down, which you know, if you're building a house out of straw, like get it together. I mean, come on. Is that really on the wolf or is that on you?

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Seriously.

Helen Hong 16:10

Melissa, did the characters on your show, Teen Wolf, like actually take any of these traits from actual wolves? Like, were they sneaky? Did they dress and drag? Were they blowing down houses? What was going on with the teen wolves?

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Yeah, I mean, I think that I mean, I I do believe that they encompassed, you know, the the very natural pack mentality, but I think that there were a couple of what we would call lone wolves, meaning that, you know, just characters that kind of went their own way or did their things their way. Um, and you know, and for me, the term, you know, lone wolf has always been something just to be afraid of because you know, growing up to and I don't want to throw coyotes under the bus. I know it's not that show, but like if you were to see an apex predator alone, that they are a little bit more dangerous than they would be in a pack. But now that I think of it as an adult, it's probably more dangerous to see people, you know, animals in packs than than alone, right, Joe?

Jo Wimpenny 17:10

Yeah, a single wolf is probably not gonna be too much of a danger. Uh obviously there'll be exceptions and if it's absolutely desperate and you know, it it might attack. But um no, no, you would want to be much more wary of of a pack.

Helen Hong 17:24

Because you never with a pack, you never know if there's one behind you. Right. That's like running in pounds. Whereas with the lone wolf, at least you see it and you're like, okay, I see you, and I can see if you're rushing me.

Jo Wimpenny 17:36

They have so many qualities that we really admire among people. Um so it's just so ironic that they have such a bad reputation. Because we've talked a bit about them living in packs, um, and these are simply family groups. So they're they're related. Where you know, the term alpha male um and alpha female that actually came from studies of wolves. Uh, but it's it's erroneous. Um the the dominant pair in a wolf pack is simply the mum and dad, and the rest of the pack are they're adult cubs. Um and so they're really strongly bonded with each other. Like they don't like other wolves. So if they're outside of their group, then they will attack them. But within their group.

Helen Hong 18:20

That's crazy because people still have the concept of the alpha male being like, Yes, oh, I fought everybody back. And so that's what makes me the alpha male, is that I was the one that dominated, and so nobody is gonna challenge my authority. But you're saying it's just like dad.

Jo Wimpenny 18:39

Yeah, it is, it is. And the person that did these studies, it was back in the 1930s, and they were studying wolves at uh Basel Zoo. Um but the thing is he he was he was doing these studies of two different packs of wolves, um, and he saw there was loads of aggression between them, and there was a lot of fighting, and there did seem to be this sort of dominance hierarchy. But the problem was they were just sort of random wolves that had been put together into packs. And so they they weren't representative of what a natural wolf pack would be like. So it's not a hotbed of aggression and ferocity it in the wild, it is simply yeah, the breeding.

Helen Hong 19:20

So if you if you take a bunch of dads, different dads from different families, that's when they're fighting each other. That makes sense. Yeah, whereas in the wild, it's just like oh, the teens are acting up again, and dad's gotta get them in line, you know.

Jo Wimpenny 19:35

Exactly, stop like playing the loud music and smoking weed in your room.

Helen Hong 19:41

Like I'm coming down on you kids.

Jo Wimpenny 19:44

Exactly. You're grounded.

Helen Hong 19:48

Yeah. Like Melissa, you probably had to ground Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

No, there's yes, I had to ground my little wolf at least once.

Helen Hong 19:56

Let's talk about the terminology wolf down your food. That's probably a true one, right?

Jo Wimpenny 20:06

Well, certainly they don't know they don't know really when the next meal's coming from. Um so yeah, they would certainly be uh be guzzling it down pretty quickly, I would say.

Helen Hong 20:18

Yes, but they have they actually have a legitimate reason, unlike myself, where I'm just like, why did I eat this whole bag of Cheetos? I do not have I don't I do know when my next meal is coming and it's the next bag of Cheetos, like what was it about?

Jo Wimpenny 20:32

Yeah, but so one thing that people don't appreciate for wolves, and there's this perception that they're supreme hunters, um, and they are incredibly well adapted, but studies have found that a lot of their hunts actually fail. You know, they they really are sort of dependent on the weak, you know, the weaker ones in the in their prey species. So actually they're doing a great service. They're kind of just weeding out um the ones who aren't the healthiest and strongest from whatever they're whatever they're hunting at the time, but they often do go hungry.

Helen Hong 21:07

Oh man. Now I feel bad for the wolves. Like s throw them a bag of Cheetos.

Jo Wimpenny 21:13

One of the really interesting things is comparing them against dogs. So, you know, wolves and dogs, grey wolves are closest living relatives of our domesticated dogs. So they both have to be a very good thing. So they were they used to be wolves, they were a common ancestor. Right. So those qualities that made people persecute wolves are sort of the same qualities that also attracted those wolves to people's camps. Um, you know, they were looking for food and that kind of thing. So it's kind of this irony that one of them became man's best friend and the other became this really, really persecuted creature. Um But what's really fascinating is the way that they've evolved differently uh and how that's impacted their behavior. So for example, wolves are Are so cooperative with each other. There's been research done where they will work together to solve problems. And they do the same research with dogs, and they're just like, no. They just they can't do it. They can't work together.

Helen Hong 22:15

The dogs are like, yo, bro, you're on your own. I'm doing my own thing.

Jo Wimpenny 22:19

Dogs just don't seem to get it, or they just they don't have that amazing connection with the others. They they're much more likely to look at us because they've evolved to have that partnership with humans. Whereas for wolves, it's the others in their part.

Helen Hong 22:35

So it's actually the lone wolf theory, is it should be the lone chihuahua theory. Like the lone the lone the lone poodle. Whereas the wolves are actually like working with each other, and this poodle is like, you know, nah. I'm doing my own thing. Nah. One day. Yeah. Okay, so let's go back, Joe, to the concept of like uh what animals do should have the reputation that wolves do in that they are sneaky or they will hide out in sheep's clothing or they'll try to pretend like so there's something else to catch prey.

Jo Wimpenny 23:18

Yeah. There's so much of it in the animal kingdom. So I'm gonna caveat this with saying the animal that I'm gonna choose is not doing it intentionally. So if you want to think about intentional deception, um you'd probably be wanting to look at things like chimpanzees or ravens, these kind of brained creatures who've got the brains for they they have the intelligence to be able to actually manipulate others in their group. Like what? Um Well, I mean it's nothing quite as complex as what we might be, certainly not the same level as what we do. Uh but for example This Raven gaslit her girlfriend to stay in a relationship for many, many years.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

This raven was so smart.

Helen Hong 24:08

This Raven was stealing her girlfriend's man and dressing in drag.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yeah, totally. It's a ravener phone. It was crazy. This raven. This raven was on, he was texting his wolf friend, going, yo, dude, you got any tips? How do I keep this one? That's hilarious.

Helen Hong 24:30

The raven is blowing down houses.

Jo Wimpenny 24:34

Yeah, the raven, the raven's actually behind the scenes everywhere, just kind of like saying, Oh, let's keep putting the wolf. We'll keep just like poking the wolf out there.

Helen Hong 24:42

But wait, so what so what is the raven actually trying to do? Like, what is it trying to catch and how is it doing it in a sneaky way?

Jo Wimpenny 24:50

So it's mainly about just um uh just kind of withholding or manipulating information to the its other raven friends. So it could be like it's it hides food in a place where it knows that they can't see it. But I would I want to just get to the animal that actually looks like you know, another creature. Yeah. She goes to the effort of disguising itself, which is the green lace wing larvae. The what? There's a lot of stuff, you know, there are especially in insects, there's a lot of evolutionary adaptations for deception and for sort of disguise. Um so these little larvae, they are they they predate um aphids. But aphids are often protected by ants because ants like to they sort of like farm them in a way so that they get honeydew secretions from them. Oh anyway, lacewing larvae disguise themselves by wearing bits of kind of rubbish, including the literal exoskeletons of insects that they've already eaten.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

So Creecho! That is a creature. Oh my god.

Helen Hong 26:12

So they are putting on outfits to pretend to be other animals. Oh, that's crazy. They're wearing a skeleton suit.

Jo Wimpenny 26:21

They are wearing little bits of aphids that they have sucked dry. And that kind of gives the the same chemical cues to the ants, so they are deceived, and it allows the um the larvae to sneak past them and keep on feasting. So there we go. It's a literal wolf in sheep's clothing.

Helen Hong 26:41

Oh my god, who knew? What what's the animal called again? Lace wing?

Jo Wimpenny 26:46

It's the larvae of a green lace wing.

Helen Hong 26:48

Green lace wing. It's a green lace wing in sheep's clothing. Who would have thought? It's the green lace wing of Wall Street.

unknown 26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Just like slinking around like a little con man with just everybody's bones on their back. Can you imagine?

Helen Hong 27:04

It's the big bad lace wing. It's the Melissa, you could have been the mom of the teen lace wing.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Apparently, I should have been a larva. It should have been teen larva instead of uh teen wolf. Uh we can write it if you want to pitch it. I think I think the time is right.

Jo Wimpenny 27:24

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

It's ripe for exoskeleton wearing this summer. It's all over the place.

Helen Hong 27:32

Take note. We're coming at you with teen lace wing. Yeah. Teen green lace wing. Um that is bonkers. I also know, you know, speaking of insects, there's also like mantises, right? Like I uh, you know, I've learned from David Attenborough has taught me that there's tons of mantises that pretend like they're flowers and stay very still, and then like other insects will come and they're like, BAM, gotcha.

Jo Wimpenny 28:01

Yeah. Yep. There is pretty much everything disguising itself as most things in the animal kingdom. Yeah. There's another larvae, a caterpillar that well, uh it looks basically like a bird poop. Um so that's yeah, it's it's an amazing um mimic. But you know, it's all it's not like they're doing it intentionally. That's kind of one of the points, you know. It's just this is how they've evolved and um this is kind of their their genetic mic.

Helen Hong 28:33

Who's afraid of the big bad larvae? Ants. Ants are afraid of the big bad larvae. Oh Melissa, we've got a game for you. Actually, it's a game for all of us. So I think we can all jump in on these. And this is uh the the game is called Wolf, werewolf, or you wolf, werewolf, or you. So I'll read a scenario and you just tell us who's most likely to do it. A wolf, a werewolf, or you. Okay, so here's one. Who would be better at navigating their way around an IKEA? Wolf, werewolf, or you?

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Definitely not me. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go with the werewolf on that because again, I think that he's you know, a werewolf is always searching, they're always looking for weaknesses, they're always looking for exits, and um, and I think also that they could part the seas. I mean, there would be no one in the IKEA aisles if a werewolf was going through.

Helen Hong 29:33

Good point, good point. There's no crowds. There's no crowds in front of a werewolf. Yeah, or probably a wolf either. Now, Melissa, I've heard you're a big thrift store person. Yes. Who could sniff out a thrift store bargain from a mile away? Okay, wolf or aware. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

No, no, I can even I no, no, no, they would not last. I would take both of those out if there was a deal to be found.

Helen Hong 29:57

Yes, yes, do not get between Melissa and a thrift store find. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

When I'm at a thrift store or I'm at an estate sale, I'm the one that's the apex predator. I'm looking around, I'm looking for weaknesses, I'm seeing what anyone's already put in their bag, I'm seeing for something under something that looks like good, and then I pull it and it's something wonderful. Like I am closing into places, attics, basements. You crawl into places. I'm feral when it comes to thrift stores and estate sales.

Helen Hong 30:30

I am not getting in your way. Nope.

Jo Wimpenny 30:33

Me neither.

Helen Hong 30:34

Okay. Who would friends say is the least pleasant first thing in the morning?

Jo Wimpenny 30:39

I think the werewolf is the one who's gonna be really, really unpleasant first thing in the morning.

Helen Hong 30:43

Yeah, Melissa, did you ever have to barge into your teen wolf child's room and go, Wake up! You're gonna be late for school.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

There was a scene, um, I can't remember what season it was, where they actually were watching over me to make sure that nothing was happening and I had to wake them up in my room. And so that was fun, you know. Uh yeah. I would just, I wouldn't want to be like recovering from a full moon night. That would be, you know, that's painful. You're dirty, you don't know where you are. You're like, how do I even call an Uber? I lost my like werewolf phone, you're naked.

Helen Hong 31:24

Your clothes are all shredded, and you're like, damn, I just got this from a good estate sale.

Jo Wimpenny 31:30

Across a statistic which said that actually six percent of the respondents genuinely do believe in werewolves. And um, I don't know, uh what's been your experience of that among people? I mean, does that surprise you? Um Do you think people actually do believe that there are werewolves out there?

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah, I mean, I I believe that. I believe that there's people that think that there's a Loch Nest monster, and I believe that people think that there's a Bigfoot, and you know, possibly unicorns, and I love mystery and I love nature, and who's to say that there isn't? Who's to say?

Helen Hong 32:09

Have you had have you because I know Teen Wolf has a huge rabid fan base, pun intended. Um, do you have fans coming up to you being like, I really think they're werewolves?

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Not yet. But there's always that possibility. Um yeah, I mean, I think that people definitely take inspiration, um, you know, and and maybe, you know, I think we all think, you know, maybe animalistically, and isn't it fun to think like a wolf, you know, to be that cunning, to be that smart, um, to have a pack to run with, to have that amount of trust, to be such a good hunter. I mean, you know, these are all really great attributes if we talk about them, you know, but then all of a sudden when we say they're wolf-like attributes, people kind of shy away. So I'm really glad that we're here talking about the wolf. The wolf is good. Let's spread the word on the wolf. Um and thank you, Joe, for all the education. That that's been amazing. Things that I didn't even who knew? Who knew about the wolf?

Helen Hong 33:10

I I love the even the concept of the werewolf, that humans created an idea of a werewolf, which is like, what's the worst thing that a human can transform into under a full moon? A human wolf. Like that's you know, that speaks to like the primal fear that we've had of wolves that we create that we even created this concept of a werewolf.

Jo Wimpenny 33:41

Yeah, absolutely. And there are some incredible stories actually, thinking thinking about werewolves and um how they were how how they were treated in again, sort of like Middle Ages time. So, you know, people were were punished because they were said to be werewolves. Um really were wolves. Yeah, yeah. So there was, you know, people there were murderers, um, but they were they were said to be werewolves um and very brutally punished in a couple of examples. Um but there were also wolves that were punished because people thought they were werewolves, you know, they thought that they had uh some human um sort of driving them. So there's a really there was a famous example, uh it was called the werewolf of Ansbach, I think, in Germany. And the villagers thought that it was their dead mare who had come back who to sort of like just uh taunt them and to to um to savage them. And so they caught this wolf and then I mean it's it's it's horrible. Um gives you a bit of an idea of the sort of things that went on at that time. But they they killed this wolf, they then dressed it in um skin coloured in a skin-coloured cloth. Um they put a wig on it and um a beard, and they they made a kind of mask of the mare's face um and then they publicly hanged it. So the wolf was already dead, thankfully. But you know, this this is some of the superstition that was all tied up with this concept of the werewolf, which is incompetent. The pageantry of it all.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

That's so wild.

Helen Hong 35:29

That's crazy. That is a wolf's uh wolf in sheep's clothing that humans created, you know, by their fear. Like it's like pa posthumous wolves in sheep's clothing. It's like not doing it on purpose when they're alive. We're actually gonna dress this thing in drag after it's crazy.

Jo Wimpenny 35:54

It's a wolf in human's clothing. Yeah. So it's just madness.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Yeah. Also, something that came to mind, this is adjacent. I don't know if it's applicable or not, but uh back in the day, the National Enquirer would have things like Bat Boy. Do you guys remember the National Inquirer? Yes. Okay, okay, I was gonna say, please. Um, so they would do these stories on these fantastical things, Bat Boy, and I think one of the things that they did was this um gentleman, and they called him Wolf Boy, and they would kind of, you know, do articles on him. And he had just a skin condition where he was extra hairy. And this is there's there's a genetic thing where people can actually have a wolf-like presence, you know, extra hair on their face.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

And so they made it sound like it was this big fantastical thing, like, you know, wolf boy running in the streets, and then they had to keep, I think, like doing the articles on him because people were transfixed and they were like, Oh, wolf boy goes to college, you know. They just had to like keep following this kid. And so I wonder also, like Wolf Boy goes to McDonald's. Yeah, Wolf Boy eats extra large French fries, Wolf Boy gets his coll, you know, his his driving permit, right? Whatever. But I mean, the point is that, you know, you there could be actual imagery of people, you know, werewolves, people, the cross between a human and a wolf just based on genetic conditions, you know. I mean, it's again, it's it's super adjacent.

Helen Hong 37:21

So, what is a werewolf, in your opinion, or in your expertise as Mama McCall?

SPEAKER_02 37:26

I mean, a beautiful, misunderstood, mythical creature who um runs rampant and um should and wild and all the things. Yeah, that was um it was really amazing, um, at least on you know, uh uh on Teen Wolf and other shows, how they actually um, you know, portray what we feel as monsters, maybe not so monsterly, and the whole thing of like maybe it's not the monster, maybe it's actually the human.

Helen Hong 37:53

So ah, I like that. Which yeah, what's actually the monster portion. Right. Melissa, do you think that it is harder to raise a teen wolf or a regular teen?

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Ooh, I would sr. Six of one half dozen of another, because I'm sure that like regular teens probably feel like they're wild at times. So uh I would say a little bit equal.

Helen Hong 38:24

At least a a teen wolf can go out in the woods and like let go, you know, let off some of the testosterone.

unknown 38:32

Yeah.

Helen Hong 38:33

Like go go slash a tree.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

Yeah. Can't you see there's a full moan? Why don't you get out there and do something with it? Get out of here. You've been playing video games all day. Oh, yeah, that's true.

Helen Hong 38:44

At least they're getting outside running around. Go make some new friends. Don't you have a pack?

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Right.

Helen Hong 38:51

That's hilarious. Cut your hair. All of the hair. Yeah. So we have a tradition here, Melissa, which is a really fun one, which is we we give you swag. Ooh. We're gonna mail these to you. So we have this dope uh tote. It's a dope tote. Dope tote, the framed by Fables mascot is a wolf, right? Love it, love it, love it. Like a like a funny looking wolf. And we've been taking uh we've been taking suggestions on what the name of our mascot should be.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

I mean, Harry is the first name that pops to mind. Harry, that's great. Yeah, or curly, that might be fun. Yeah, yeah.

Helen Hong 39:41

Um, you can get, listeners and viewers, you can get this dope swag at framedbyfables.com. And uh, you two can weigh in on framebyfables.com or on our Instagram page uh and see and you know, and weigh in on what you think the name of our mascot should be. We'll let the voters decide. Yes. Yes. But I like I like the suggestion of Harry. Harry's a good one. Um, so we're gonna mail this to you, Melissa, because you're remote and you can like sport your Harry tote. And thank you so much for joining. Do you have any cool projects coming up that you want to share with us?

SPEAKER_02 40:19

I just shot a cool thing that I can't talk about, and I hate it when people say that, but I'm just gonna go ahead and say it. Um but you know, everybody can always find me on Instagram. I still try to do as many what I refer to as Moon Day Mondays, which are hearkening back to Teen Wolf behind-the-scene photos, trying to connect with everybody and just um continually thankful for everybody that's that's been a part of the show, that still loves the show, that loves what we were saying within the show. It was just a magical experience, and without the show, I wouldn't be here with you two lovely ladies. Oh my god. So thank you so much.

Helen Hong 40:51

I love that so much. It's on your Instagram, and what's your Instagram handle?

SPEAKER_02 40:55

Um, let's just call it my name, Melissa Ponzio One, I think is what it is.

Helen Hong 41:00

Melissa Ponzio One. You that's such a great idea. I'm gonna do uh maybe Frame by Fables Fridays. There you go. Yeah. You can follow me at at funny Helen Hong. That's at funny Helen Hong, because there's some other Helen Hong out there.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

That ain't it. They're passing. They're like non-funny Helen Hong in sheep's clothing.

Helen Hong 41:28

Yes. I love it. Bringing it back circle, full circle. Joe, how how can we find you?

Jo Wimpenny 41:35

Yeah. I'm I think just at Joe Wimpany. I love it. Um on Instagram.

Helen Hong 41:41

There's no funny Joe Wimpany. There aren't many Joe Wimpanys, I have to say. No, there's no zoo Joe Wimpany. There's you're you're the one and only. Yeah, I don't know why there's so many damn hell and wrongs out there, but they have all my handles. Um, thank you so much, Melissa, for joining us on Framed by Fables. Thank you all, listeners and viewers, for joining us, and we will see you next time on another Animal Slander Framed by Fables.