More Than Checking Boxes: Grant Compliance, Trust & Project Success

In this episode of The Redhorse Perspective Podcast, we sit down with Sara Fry, MPA and PMP, owner of Sara Fry, LLC, to explore why compliance is about much more than checking boxes.

Together, we discuss the importance of reading the fine print before accepting grant funding, understanding the terms and conditions that come with grant awards, and how organizations can set themselves up for long-term success through education and compliance.

Sara also shares why project management principles, such as building trust, managing time effectively, and developing a solid work breakdown structure (WBS)—are just as valuable in the nonprofit and public sectors as they are in traditional engineering and construction projects.

Whether you're a grant applicant, nonprofit leader, project manager, or simply curious about what happens after funding is awarded, this conversation offers practical insights on turning compliance into a tool for success rather than a burden.

Guest Information: Sara Fry, MPA and PMP, Owner of Sara Fry, LLC, sarafryllc@gmail.com

Redhorse Engineering: https://redhorse-engineering.com/

Find our Episode Summaries: https://redhorse-engineering.com/the-redhorse-perspective

Learn more about RE|LEARN: https://redhorse-engineering.com/re%7Clearn-workshops

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the Red Horse Perspective podcast, where we will explore project management, leadership, and project delivery topics across multiple industries. I'm your host, Tana Redhorse, the founder of Red Horse Engineering, where each episode we sit down with professionals from different fields to discuss challenges, lessons, and experiences that help shape successful projects and develop strong teams. Because while all industries may differ, the challenges and opportunities are often the same. Hello and welcome back to the Red Horse Perspective podcast. My name is Tina Redhorse, and I am the owner and founder of Red Horse Engineering. And I'm very excited for episode three, where we invited Sarah Frye, owner of Sarah Fry LLC. And thank you again, Sarah, for wanting to be on our podcast today. And you had a lot of great experience, which is why I invited you to be on today's podcast and hopefully dive a little deeper into what you do, a lot of your services. I know you are an independent contractor or independent consultant specializing in federal grants, compliance, monitoring, and nonprofit building. And also, I believe you provided some service with the AmeriCorps. You also possess a Master of Public Administration and a certificate in nonprofit management. So I'm really excited to hear a little bit more about you. So if you could go ahead and add any other further introductions.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah, thanks for having me today, Tina. It's really great to be here with you. Yeah, so I feel like you kind of uh captured my background there in a nutshell. So currently I'm running a consulting and training practice that helps nonprofits, educational organizations, and public agencies strengthen their operations and increase their impact. My background includes federal grants management in AmeriCorps, which you mentioned, compliance, volunteer engagement, project management, and organizational capacity building. After about more than a decade of working in and alongside mission-driven organizations, um, I now help organizations build practical systems, uh, improve processes, and navigate complex funding and compliance requirements so they can focus more of their energy on the mission.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Perfect. So I actually was really impressed when you you sent me a little summary of your background, hence why I knew so much about you. Um, but I I would actually like you to tell me a little bit about your career journey and how um your work led you through AmeriCorps. Um, maybe even share a little bit for our listeners and for myself about what AmeriCorps is, what they do, um kind of your experience with them, um, and then how that kind of transitioned into being uh independent consultant.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yeah, sure. So um after I graduated college way back in the day, um, I went abroad to teach English in Oaxaca, Mexico. And AmeriCorps is actually what brought me back home to the states. Um, I served um basically a year of service with a group in Arlington, Virginia that taught English to adult immigrants. And that group was called the Arlington Education and Employment Program. Um and it was a very eye-opening experience doing AmeriCorps with that program. I think AmeriCorps tends to be um very much a similar experience, and that's eye-opening for the members that do it. So after that term for service, I was actually hired to be the organization's volunteer manager. So I ran not just their AmeriCorps program, but also their community member volunteer-based programming. Um, so it was basically training volunteers how to teach uh ESL in the classroom. And I did that for about five years. So it was very much in the world of um AmeriCorps volunteer engagement, but also um teaching and literacy. So AmeriCorps, it actually uh at an organized bigger national level, it has a very broad mission, and that's to improve lives, strengthen communities, and foster civic engagement through service and volunteering. It's very much twofold in that it is uh the volunteers make a very large difference in the communities they serve. Um, and there's all different kinds of AmeriCorps programs, not just teaching English to immigrants. There's some that serve the homeless, others that support economic development, some that come to the rescue when disaster strikes. So volunteers do um all types of different things. Um that's one part of it is the actual service in the communities. And I think the other part is that the volunteers are really um getting meaning from their service. Um, for some, it actually becomes a step in their career journey like it was for me. So I would say it serves both the volunteer and the community. After I uh worked with that organization for about five years, I decided to get my master's of public administration and I went on to actually working at a MariCorps at the federal level doing uh grants management. Um, the last few years I was there, I was doing a lot of work in uh monitoring, oversight, and compliance. So making sure that these community organizations that were receiving federal funding for AmeriCorps programs were spending the federal dollars as they should be. Um, so that's kind of um how I got to AmeriCorps and a little bit about AmeriCorps in terms of the consulting aspect. I decided to open my own business this past January, and I am um currently doing work um with an AmeriCorps grantee as well as other smaller nonprofits to kind of help them build capacity.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

That is absolutely amazing, Sarah. Um I personally have very little knowledge of AmeriCorps, and so you sharing uh your experience and teaching ESL to to different individuals. I mean, to me, I've always been in I'm a huge supporter of teaching and mentoring, and so that story just resonated with me. And so, how did you get into um teaching ESL, just out of curiosity?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, so um I guess it goes back to college years. Um, so in college, I um did a little bit of volunteer work with a group that taught English, and then I studied abroad. And being in my early 20s, I love being abroad and I wanted to find a way where I could be abroad once I graduated. And a very common way to do that is to teach English. Um, so that's what I did. I went abroad and I taught English for a while. Of course, it wasn't immigrants, it was to uh, you know, classroom learners in their home country. So it's a little bit of a different ball game. But when I came back to the States, um, a lot of those skills were very transferable to teaching adult immigrants. So that's kind of how I got into teaching. I found teaching to be very um fun. There's a lot of creativity and lesson planning and working with students and different classroom teachings and strategies. Um and then the students themselves. I was in Arlington and there is a very wide, diverse group of immigrants there from all over the place with very different experiences and to learn their stories um was was a blessing.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I've been I've never been a teacher, um, but I've always been drawn to trying to teach in some capacity. And I was actually a tutor uh for most of my 20s. And it was just a very rewarding experience. And I actually tutored high school uh girls in math and sciences. And like you said, it's just something about teaching and just seeing how just to see growth, I guess, is like the most rewarding part of me. And it I used to tell people that they would keep me young because they always, you know, they they have just a completely different perspective um on the world and on society. So it was always it was always cool to to kind of tap into that. So that kind of goes into um I forgot to to share as part of your background, uh, something that we connected on was project management. And um I remember we had a good conversation about uh both possessing our PMPs and just kind of looking at the PMP community here in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And so it sounds like your background, uh, you led a lot of different programs and projects. And so I'm just kind of curious as to like for listeners who are joining and they would like to be um, I guess, more in the service, such as like AmeriCorps or maybe serving in a nonprofit capacity, um, how would a project uh management professional certification help them either professionally um or even personally? So I'm kind of curious to to kind of get your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Yeah. Yeah, I remember this conversation we had, Tina, and I think I told you the um courses and material that I took to prepare for the PMP seemed very focused more on the I will call it industry because that word is used a lot or the for-profit sector. Right. That is not in my background at all. I do it is not until January that I've actually worked for a for-profit, and that's for myself. Um, so I I felt that though a lot of the um skills and themes that ran through the course content can still be transferred into um, I'll call it public sector work, nonprofits, government work, um, things like communication, knowing who your stakeholders are, um building trust, building relationships, um, time management, um, how to do work breakdown structures. Um, so I felt like some of those words that they were using these courses, I hadn't used like that vocabulary before, but I knew what they were talking about. And they're very much applicable, I still think, in the public sector.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Oh, absolutely. And I think that's why um it's really interesting to meet um folks, as you mentioned, kind of in the public sector, right? Because um I've always worked in government, but uh always within the engineering and the sciences realm of it. Um and then when I moved to Santa Fe, uh now that I am my own business owner, I've been engaging with a lot of nonprofit organizations. And I was amazed that there are a lot of project management, um, project managers uh within all these different industries. Kind of why we started this podcast. And it was it's really interesting to hear your perspective because um I know PMI always says, you know, project management spans all different industries, and whether you're in healthcare or nonprofit um government or or engineering construction. Um, but I agree because a lot of the topics revolve against uh traditional waterfall, agile. Now we're doing hybrid. Um and so it is really interesting to hear it from like a nonprofit. And actually uh two individuals prior to this episode have been working in with nonprofits. So it's been really interesting to hear um their perspective because, like you said, the themes are the same and sometimes the challenges are the same. And so it would be really it's really interesting to me because I will be having a conversation, say, with you, and it's like, oh yeah, like that's such a headache. And um even though we're talking about two completely different projects, I I guess going into that is how like I guess from a nonprofit standpoint, how does project management and leadership kind of come into your your experience? Um and I guess for for listeners, what is some advice you would give them um to really shine to utilize those project management skills?

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah. So I think um my mind is going back to when um I worked in an office that was fairly new in the AmeriCorps agency. It was the Office of Monitoring, and it's where I did a lot of that compliance work. Um, it was a new office, and that's actually kind of rare in government that there's a new office or agency. Usually it's always a bunch of, you know, this is how we've always done things. But we needed to develop uh these monitoring tools, like what criteria are we going to, you know, check against these grantees policies for? Um, and we didn't have any of those tools. So we were kind of very much in a stand-up phase, you know, and we had a deadline that we had to meet, and we worked very collaboratively in groups to develop these different monitoring tools. And it was very much of collaborative in the sense that we kind of came together, brainstormed like these are the tasks that need to get done. Here's how we're gonna get them done, who's gonna do them, but then we'd also regroup and we would kind of refine or put out more guidance behind this criteria. So I think that is very much a project management technique of working together collaboratively in a team, going through this process of refinement. And then also, um, you you mentioned leadership as well. Um, we had excellent leadership in this office. I feel very fortunate to have worked with that leadership. They were um very good in letting us, you know, I will say, take the wheel. Um, they also, I think, recognized that we were all learners and new to this in a way, and there was um room and grace for making mistakes and making errors and learning from it. Um, and I think that was very important. And because our leadership allowed us that, I think we were stronger as a team and also just better at working with one another.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah, I actually like that you talked about working collaboratively, and you I also heard again a common theme, giving yourself grace, right? And I think that's the the the beautiful thing about project management is that uh we encourage what we can do better, right? So I guess that kind of goes into another question that I commonly ask folks is what is the challenge you face today that people outside your industry would be surprised to learn is quite common. This episode is brought to you by Red Horse Engineering. Through our Relearn workshops, we help technical professionals strengthen their project management, communication, and project delivery skills. Learn more at RedhorseEngineering.com.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah, I think one challenge that we faced in our office, as well as the agency faced at large, when we would go to um monitor or check for compliance um for these organizations that we were giving federal funds to to run on the AmeriCorps programs. Um, we when we found noncompliance, um, we would always ask, like, what is the root cause of the noncompliance? Um, kind of like a root cause analysis. And the most common reason I would say is probably they didn't know that they had that requirement. They just simply didn't know. And that was very common. It's always kind of surprising. Like, how did you not know? Did you not read your notice of grant award? Did you not know about the terms and conditions? And they didn't. Um, and sometimes that was simply because they didn't read it, they didn't click on the link, or maybe there wasn't a turnover and there's new staff. So I would say that was a common challenge for them, but it was also a challenge for us as an agency, because it's like, well, how how can we make them more aware of what's required of them? Um, so and I think that's probably still a question that exists. Like, how can we make it easier? How can we train them so they know what all these requirements are? I think that's probably ongoing for many agencies as well as grant recipients.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

You know, it made me think about this this other question that you know came to mind was compliance, right? So we immediately think of rules and paperwork and hundreds of pages of these requirements that you're talking about, right? So I've been working um on my business and I've been talking to a couple of folks in the nonprofit sector. And uh one of them was uh basically she's uh she does the grants. And so uh that was kind of new territory for me. And she immediately like started the meeting with these are all the requirements of the grant. And I just sat there and I remember just thinking, oh my gosh, like how am I gonna remember all of this? Right. And it was really funny because she says, Well, you know, if you know anybody who would be interested in this grant or applying for it, um, you know, these are the kind of the stipulations of them. And she sent it over, and I just remember just being completely overwhelmed by it. So I I could definitely see the the value and the benefit and and compliance, right? And I think even um being a small business owner, right? So I was actually just talking to a um a lady in my network, and we sometimes just do business check-ins, and we were talking about uh small business and and compliance. And she does a lot of that for um construction agencies. And um, you know, she says, Oh, you know, they sign for these contracts, but they sometimes don't read the the small print, the the terms and conditions of their contract. And so um she works a lot with these contractors saying, hey, you know, this is kind of when you need to be, you know, submitting your qualifications if you change hands, or this is how you're gonna be doing your submittals, this is your your frequencies. And so, um, but kind of going back to my question was sorry, uh when you do do your compliance um in your industry, like what does that actually involve?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah. So when I was a monitoring officer and senior monitoring officer, um, I think there is definitely communication skills needed, another project management skill there for you. Um, in some ways, monitoring is a little similar to auditing in that uh the grant recipients usually aren't the most excited to hear from us. Sometimes they're a little bit scared, um, or they're like, oh, I have to go through this monitoring process can be really uncomfortable. Um there's a communication. Yeah. So there's usually up front, there's this is how the process is, this is what you can expect. Here are the documents you're gonna need to give us. We're gonna want to talk to XYZ staff person or XYZ volunteers. Um, and that communication is really kind of meant, I think, to one, set expectations, but also start that relationship building because we do want um trust and honesty in this process. Um, another skill I would say is interpreting the rules and guidelines. So, yes, there's lots and lots of fine print, and it is not always 100% clear. Even to people in federal government, we're sometimes like, hmm, well, maybe it could mean this, but they're doing this. Does that fit within the guideline or not? Um, so there's a some of that. Um, there's reviewing a lot of documents against this criteria. So, yes, there is some paperwork to it. Um, but paper is only, you know, worth the value of the paper it's printed on. So you also have to talk to people and make sure do they know what that piece of paper in their organization says? Or is this, you know, manual they're giving me, has it just been sitting on their shelf for 20 years and nobody's looked at it? Um, so it's usually also making sure that staff and volunteers um can tell me, you know, what it is they're doing or what is they're supposed to be doing if something comes up. So there's that piece of it as well. There is a piece of it that is financial. When it's following the money trail, you know, so I'll say, okay, you drew X dollars down from the reimbursement system here. What was it for? Can you show me the receipts for that? Was that in your budget? Um, are those items allowable against the code of federal regulations? So there's that piece. Um, and then the final part is usually um writing this compliance report, this monitoring report. And that is um that can be sometimes challenging in that uh as a federal government worker, we had to hold grantee organizations accountable. So we had to objectively and accurately describe the results. Um, and that was sometimes yes, they are compliant or no, they're not, and this is what they're doing. And here's a suggestion how to make it better. So there's that accountability piece, but the second part of it um goes back to understanding that our grant recipients are partner organizations with us, we want them to continue with this grant, even though maybe they feel that they have been put through the ringer with this monitoring. So I would say those reports are kind of twofold. It's the relationship building, but there's also that accountability piece. Um, and then once they get that report, we go through what is called a corrective action planning process where they're gonna tell us essentially how they're gonna fix the non-compliance. Um, and we try to be very supportive with that and sometimes offer um suggestions as to how that can be done. I would say most federal government agencies don't want people to think of the rules and regs as a burden. We often hear that word burdensome, but most of the rules and regs I would say have a purpose behind them. Um, and there's there's tax dollars here, so we need to ensure that you know there's accountability.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I just hearing you speak just now, it made me think about um sounds kind of cheesy, but the PMP, right? So you said a lot of terms and a lot of processes that you would find when you're setting for the PMP. So I think earlier on, you know, you talked a lot about the stakeholders. And so dealing with stakeholders, whereas your your idea of stakeholders is maybe a little different from I guess my experience with the stakeholders. But I think in in this regard, right, your stakeholders would possibly be, I guess, the the funding sources, right, and the taxpayers at at some level, right? So um, whereas like for me, a lot of these projects, also stakeholder, I mean, also taxpaying citizens, um, also a lot of different public agencies, um, but also the the end users, like the folks at the end of the day who are receiving the outcome of this project or the benefits of the project. And then you also talk about um, you know, earlier on, um what was it, collaboration. And I think that's something that people really have to understand, like and no no matter what industry you're in, no matter what type of project you're working on, um, you have to be able to work collaboratively. And I think that's where most successful projects lie um is being able to work with others and other agencies, um, and not just working in the silo. I think sometimes um people think that they have to do everything, right? And you brought up um accountability. And I am a huge fan of accountability, and um I think when you do have a really good uh project plan in place, um, that really helps identify, okay, your roles and responsibilities, but also how to be accountable for the work that you're outputting. And so um a lot of the things that you were saying, I was following, like you you talked about requirements, right? I mean, at the end of the day, that's what project management is. What are our requirements? What are we trying to do here, you know? And so you're trying to basically help those folks understand what the requirements are for a specific grant, right? So that they're not ending up non-compliant, right? Because I don't think anybody wants to be seen as non-compliant. I could totally be one of those people who be like, oh no, like what did I do wrong? But again, it's you know, I I think people have to understand that project management comes in all different uh different ways. And like you mentioned, I mean, you do a lot of the monitoring and the controlling, but there's still at the root of it project management skills that need to be present. So you're talking about um following the mod uh money trail. So that's PM 101, right? Scope, cost, and schedule. So, I mean, you're obviously tracking um requirements, which is kind of a scope, you're tracking your costs and you're obviously on a timeline to get grants awarded to get um them monitored um on a certain frequency or a cycle, right? So I think it's just like really interesting again that there's so much parallel with project management in all different industries and all different types of services. And so whether or not you intend it on saying like these phrases, I mean, they all pop up within project management. And so like I just wanted to throw that out there. The other thing, you know, we talk about on this podcast is leadership, and you know, again, kind of going back to there's a little bit of a difference between management and leadership. And you brought up, you know, I think earlier on about some traits in past leaders that you've worked with. And I think I wanted to revisit that conversation a little bit more. So, in your opinion, um, what does good leadership look like in environments where collaboration matters more than authority?

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Yeah, I think um, and I think this also gets at the difference a little bit between like what is a leader versus a manager or supervisor. I see a leader as um someone who has a vision, someone who can bring people together to work effectively, uh, to share that vision, to motivate others. I think as well as I think I mentioned like grace to make mistakes that so I'd also say along with that, like building a community of trust and um kind of like a community of practice, if you will, amongst the working group, um, one that can foster open communication. So I think another really good thing about the the office of monitoring that I was in is that we had what was called weekly huddles, and there was um basically kind of like a shared Google Doc. And people could put in questions before those huddles, and at the huddle we would go through those questions and anyone, you know, could chime in to answer. Um, so it was very much an open, um trusting, collaborative environment. And I think leaders are able to foster that. And I guess you said mentioned authority, and I talked about manage. I think supervisors and managers are a little bit we think of as more of like delegating a task, maybe doing um initial trainings and orientation onboarding. Yes, not as much um, I'll say like big picture thinkers or leader in that way.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

They're kind of there to get a task or a job done. Done. Right. And I do, and I do agree with you in terms of the leaders. Um, and I really liked all the lists that you provided because um so I got my master in uh technical management. And so I always share that uh one of the the biggest concepts that we focus on is leadership and all the different types of leadership. And and you you nailed it, I mean, how they're listening, how um how they utilize their different leadership styles, being able to see the big picture, um, empathy, uh, and then also how they see their teams, right? So I think as you were kind of sharing earlier, it sounded like those leaders they understood what worked for your teams. And you know, we talk we talk a lot about team styles, right? So everybody has a different style, every team has a different personality. Um, I've worked on so many different engineering projects with different types of teams, and I can say that no team is exactly the same. It's always amazing to me. Um, every team kind of takes on its own personality and they have their own strengths, they have their own weaknesses. So thank you for sharing that. And I kind of wanted to jump into I guess for you and your future, like what impact do you hope that your work has over the next few years?

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah, so I'm right now trying to work with um different organizations, like I said, to really I think build systems, um, do capacity building work. And I would just love it if after my work is done with one of these organizations, maybe a few years down the road, there would be a conversation between two staff people, and it would be along the lines of, oh, you know, we didn't originally have that, but Sarah gave us the system, and now it's much more effective and easier, it doesn't take as much time, or maybe something like, yeah, we didn't have any policies beforehand, and now we have all of these that are telling us what we're supposed to do. And because of that, um, we've been able to keep our grant. Um, so I would love it if there were conversations like that after my work was complete and I've you know completed my project. Love that.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Love that. And I I think too, as somebody in in project management or even a small business owner right now, um, I like to think that my lasting impact would be that I made some sort of a difference, right? Yeah, that I improved some sort of system. Um and I think for me, kind of going back to our earlier conversation about education and teaching, um, like for me, it's always been about my experiences, but how can I use my experience to help other engineers and other project managers? And I think that's that's really important. And I liked what you said about I hope that when I leave or whatever I do or to depart from your agency or whatever project you're working on, that systems are in place, you know, and um I really like that because I like to think that whatever I'm doing right now is in some shape or form, even if it's on a teeny tiny scale, to make a difference within the project management world or even the indust the engineering industry. And I'm I'm trying to do all these different things in order to um create a footprint, right? To to to make us a little bit better. And and then the question is like, how how do I do that, right? And I think a lot of it comes to teaching. And I mean, my my company, one of the services that we started offering, and again, it was something that wasn't um it wasn't part of my original business plan. It was something that evolved over the years, and that was like project management one-on-one for engineers. And I really wanted to, you know, uplift professionals who were interested in leadership, interested in project management, um, but may not know what that entails and what that looks like in an engineering construction space. And so um then I just got on a role and I started doing um these other series. So we did like communication, um, working on technical reviews, um, you mentioned it earlier, being um productive in time management. So really taking a lot of those skills that we learn in project management that you don't even think about, right? You don't you don't really think about, oh, this is how I'm gonna manage my time because you've been doing it for so long. But I want it to be able to to bring it and show other people like this is what's kind of worked for me, or maybe this is what's worked for other people, or maybe this is um going to prepare you a little bit better for project management, or at least bring um bring some awareness to you. And I share with people um my story of how I became a project manager, and that really started because um I was an engineer for for my career. Um, then when I went into project management, I was completely overwhelmed. I didn't know what to expect. And I always just think of like, I wish I had taught to like other project managers and kind of talk to them about what is some advice you would give me, right? And so I'm gonna ask you, you know, what is some advice that you would give to somebody looking to enter into the project management world? Um, maybe somebody who is on the fence about getting their PMP. Um, maybe there's somebody who has worked in nonprofit, they don't see the value in getting a PMP. What would you say to somebody um to you know offer a fresh perspective?

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah. I guess um I think I would hit on two things you've already mentioned, Tina. One, just how vast and diverse the project management world is in terms of like the many different organizations that one can work in and have the skill, both in the for-profit, nonprofit, or public sector. Um, I think there's a lot of skills that can be applied in many different ways if you are considering getting your PMP. I think the other thing is you hit on is you felt overwhelmed and that there was a there's a learning process to it, right? When I started taking project management classes, I think it was like in back in 2021, and I started taking classes, and some of it was new material, but there was some of it, I was like, yeah, I kind of already know this. You just have this term for it, and I call it something different. Right. So I guess one, you might be surprised at what you already know. But then two, the stuff that you don't know, you can very much learn. Um, it's not something that you have to go and get like a whole other four-year degree for. Um, it's something that is very much learnable learnable. You can pace yourself. Um, there's a lot of good resources, including free ones out there. Um I know when I started looking at getting my PMP, um, there's a lot of these, like, I think they're called authorized training provider courses that are kind of, in my opinion, a lot of money. Um, and I didn't take any of those. I didn't take any of those really pricey courses. I think I subscribed to like Coursera for three months at a very low rate, like I don't know, was fifty, sixty dollars a month. That's what I did and I passed. So um there's a lot of good stuff out there, and yeah, uh it's learnable. And I think um, even once you get your PMP, you'll still be learning new things about project management.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

So I agree with you. I I tell people all the time, like engineering, it doesn't stop once you you know graduate. It doesn't stop when you get your PE license, it doesn't stop when you get your PMP. And so I actually read a really interesting quote today, and I gosh, I should have written it down. Um and it was actually it it was relative to entrepreneurship and small and uh small businesses, but I like the nature of the con of the of the quote, and it was saying you're only as successful as how much you invest in yourself. And I thought that was just so interesting because being an entrepreneur, and I think you can speak to that, is we're constantly learning, right? Or constantly figuring out new things, you're constantly like for me, I'm constantly struggling to learn tax strategies. And uh speaking of of compliance, you know, you're you know, nobody's really gives you a checklist on how to start a business or how to run a business or how to scale or operate a business. And so you're constantly learning um you know, accounting and financials, or even marketing. Um and so I just thought it was a really interesting quote because I think people have to understand that once you become um a leader or project manager, I mean, it doesn't stop there and you just kind of have to keep learning because the industry is always going to evolve no matter what in industry you're in. So that kind of goes back to my, or actually that goes to my next question, which is growth. So you kind of mentioned it a little bit just now. Um, but what do you think you're still learning?

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yeah, that's actually a great question, Tina. So I would say in my past role in federal government, doing monitoring, it's a lot about risk management. And me, as well as many others who I worked with in that field, we tend to be a little bit risk averse. Um, so in starting a small business, I I had doubts. I was like, there's a lot of risk here. I don't know if I can do it. And I think these are very common thoughts for people that start their own business, particularly in the startup phase. And um, I talked with um a coach. Um, she's become a friend, and she said, You're having analysis paralysis, Sarah. You need to just do it. She's like, You're smart, you have all this expertise, you'd be a great asset. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do it. And that month I I started my own LLC and I took the risk. And I think um I'm hoping that it builds my character and I can see the risk after this.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

You know, it's so funny. Um, I shared this on a previous podcast, not not the red horse perspective, but um we were talking about being an entrepreneur and having a small business, and I told um the host that in a way I was doing my own project management plan because I had stakeholders, which were my family, myself, and I had to do my own risk management, which is basically identifying anything and everything that could go wrong with my business. And, you know, how would I mitigate this? How what what are my contingencies, right? And people don't get that project management spans in almost everything that you do, right? And whether that's you're you're working for the government or you're working in the private sector or you're being an entrepreneur, um, I think those skills as a project manager really come through because like that's how I approach my business. And I I was with you. Um, I I didn't have so much the decision paralysis, but I was just scared. Like I was just, oh no, like am I going to regret this decision that I'm making, you know? And I think that was a scary thing. It was the most scariest thing I've ever done in my entire life. Um, I'm also very risk adverse. And so when people find out that I started my own company, that I left my former employer, they're like, You are you are a risk taker. I'm like, oh no, far from it. But, you know, I think what gave me that confidence was really assessing the risks, really like looking and being honest with myself. You know, I I wasn't trying to um, you know, speak so like grandiose about okay, I'm gonna make all this crazy money, I'm gonna have all these um clients right off the bat. You know, I was very, very conservative and okay, this is this is what I anticipate my first year. Um, this is kind of my goal. How am I gonna get there? And also, okay, what if it doesn't happen? Like, what if that never like comes to fruition? Like, what do I do? Then and I actually spoke to another business owner and he says, I gave myself a year, and he's like, I told myself, okay, if this is not happening in a year, I might need to reassess whether I need to go look for quote unquote a real job. And I thought that was a really great approach because um I utilize that in in my risk assessment. I'm like, okay, well, if that happens, maybe that's that's an option, right? So I really appreciate you sharing that, Sarah, because um, you know, we talk a lot on this podcast about project management, leadership, um, community. And we talk about, you know, even on the Red Horse perspective blog articles that I have every week, we touch upon business and entrepreneurship. And you and I are both in the startup phase of our businesses. And so it was really nice to be able to connect how we utilize those skills that we don't really think about, but it's kind of part of our day-to-day, you know, life. So with that, um, I actually would like to ask you what's one thing that you hope the listeners take away from today's conversation?

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Yes, I would say I would hope listeners would take away that if they receive grants, particularly state or federal grants, make sure you're reading the terms and conditions of your grant award. Know uh what's required, know what's expected of you. And my other advice would be um if you don't know that, ask for help. It's okay to ask for help. And I will say that's another thing I've been learning. Um as a business owner, it's it's okay to ask for help. We all need it at times. Um, as part of that, having grace with yourself. So love that. Leave it you with that, Tina.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

No, fantastic. Um, so the last question is uh, where can people connect with you? So if you can provide us um, yeah, the best way for people to get a hold of you, learn more possibly about compliance and grants, getting that help that you're suggesting.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Yeah, I would say the best way to contact me is either on LinkedIn or email. Um, so you can email me at Sarah Fry L C at Gmail.com and Sarah Fry is S-A-R-A-F-R-Y and L L C at Gmail.com. There's no H in Sarah and there's no E in Fry.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

No worries. We will end up we will actually include for the listeners um uh in the show notes we'll include uh more of your information. So if you guys would love to connect with Sarah and learn more, um, I invite you to take that opportunity. And again, Sarah, thank you so much for joining us on the Red Horse Perspective podcast. Again, just really excited for this podcast and all the folks who have been willing to come and have a conversation and um, you know, learn a little bit more of what we do and the importance of project management and leadership in every industry. Um, and also just talking about some of the challenges, some of the things that we've learned along the way, and hopefully listeners um will resonate with that. So, with that, thank you again to all the listeners out there. And if you would like to learn more about the red horse perspective, you can visit our website and also check out previous um episodes of the Red Horse Perspective podcast. Thank you, everyone. Bye.