#003 - Ian Fadness - Coffee Done Right

Ian Fadness didn't plan on owning a coffee shop. He just wanted to make a really good cappuccino. In this episode, Ian walks us through his coffee journey. From a life-changing espresso in Denver, to the grind of Seattle cafes, to buying Slow by Slow Coffee in downtown Boise with his wife in 2022 (with zero business experience and a baby on the way).

We get into the "Unreasonable Hospitality" philosophy that guides everything they do, what it actually takes to grow a business without a marketing budget, winning a design award at the World of Coffee Expo in San Diego, and what's next, including their 10th anniversary celebration on July 17th.

Thanks for tuning in!

0:00 — Intro: Meet Ian Fadness
0:09 — What is Slow by Slow Coffee?
0:41 — How Ian got into coffee (the Denver cappuccino that started it all)
2:34 — His first barista job and the chaos of a one-man cafe
4:22 — What kept drawing him back to coffee
6:29 — How Ian and his wife ended up buying Slow by Slow
10:56 — The real learning curve: taxes, payroll, and running a business with a newborn
13:44 — Growing without marketing — quality sourcing and word of mouth
15:31 — Discovering "Unreasonable Hospitality" by Will Guidara
20:08 — How hospitality shows up in the small details
21:35 — Finding and keeping great staff (and why turnover is almost zero)
23:00 — Brian's story: he applied to work at Slow by Slow (plot twist)
25:02 — Crazy customer stories — South Seattle vs. Boise
26:39 — The customer who became their brand designer
29:16 — What makes a great regular
32:42 — The renovation and the connections it brought
34:42 — Winning best cafe design at the World of Coffee Expo in San Diego
37:14 — The design philosophy behind Slow by Slow's space
45:09 — Work-life balance, fatherhood, and the seasons of business ownership
50:52 — Advice Ian would give himself on day one
52:13 — What's next: systems, potential expansion, and the 10th anniversary (July 17th!)

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

I'm here today with uh with Ian Gregory Fadness. How are we doing today, Ian? Good. Good. Um what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Um I run a coffee shop.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Very nice. Yeah. Slow by slow coffee, downtown Boise. Yes, sir. Um how long have you been doing that for?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I have been uh my wife and I bought it in 2022. So I've been been running it since then.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Okay, nice. 2022. So been doing it for a couple years now. Obviously, you got started in uh the coffee industry a little bit before that. How'd you kind of get your start and um make your way into the into the world of of coffee?

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah, I um I got my start in coffee. Well, I guess going back a little bit further, I got interested in coffee um when I was a kid because my dad would drink it all the time, but it sucked and I didn't understand, but I tried to tried to um drink it because I wanted to do what he did. But um I found myself years later, I found myself in Denver and I went to this random coffee shop and I got a cappuccino and it blew my mind. And uh I ended up getting I think three or four in a row. It was like it was so good. I I I never tasted anything like it. Um and so that kind of set me down a journey where I started um reading about coffee and trying to find the best coffee I could find. And um a couple years later, I moved to Seattle, and uh there's this local coffee shop where I was living, and I just approached the owner and asked him if I could have a job and started working there, watching a lot of YouTube videos, and ended up working there for like nine or ten years. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Yeah, that's awesome. Um man, that first experience in a coffee shop when you're like, oh, this is like good coffee. Um, I remember my first time sitting down in a coffee shop and like bringing my laptop and like getting a coffee and like doing work, and it was like, oh, I can like go and sit these places and and do work and it's kind of cool. And then you you kind of go down this rabbit hole of like, okay, so I tried this coffee shop. Right now, what about this other coffee shop? What's that one like? Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

For sure. It's a thing, man. You like you get started and you like try to find your spot, you know, and uh yeah, it was pretty, pretty fun. That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Okay, so you got into the the world of being a barista. Um, what was it like at your at your first job being a priesta and and working your way up and kind of figuring out coffee?

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Well, my my first job was maybe a little unorthodox. Um the the cafe that I went and I I got a job at at the time the owner, uh the two owners um were getting divorced, and the entire staff quit to like because I think the guy was a little shady and uh they sided with the the um wife, but he would show up a couple times a week and would always smell like booze and kind of open whatever he wanted. And so I asked him if I could have a job, and he's like, sure. And so I would work, um, I think it was like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, open to close by myself. And uh the shop was pretty slow, but I didn't have any skills, so it felt busy. Um but in my downtime, I would just watch YouTube videos and try to figure out how to become a better barista, how to steam milk, how to think about efficiency and you know, where you place things and how to move well and all that stuff. And so um yeah, it was pretty pretty gnarly for a while. Um, but eventually one of my best friends growing up ended up actually buying the shop. Well, and so I worked for him for um you know, I don't know, six years maybe. Um, and things got a little better after that.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

So nice, that's cool. I was gonna say it probably got uh a little bit better when when he came in and and took things over, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Yeah, definitely, definitely. Working open to close was pretty um pretty crazy, but I that's like I just wanted to be around coffee, so I didn't really care.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah, was there anything one thing in particular that like drew you to it or did you just like really enjoyed it?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

I don't really know. I mean, I think I've always just had an interest in like tasty beverages and um and kind of like going down the rabbit hole in certain things, and so it just really captivated my attention. I don't I don't know I don't know why. Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

I think there is like uh especially with like the latte art and steam of the milk, there is like such an art to it, but also it's just like it's so simple as well. It's like oh it's just it's a cup of coffee.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yeah, I think there is there is something about like uh you know kind of having creating small like beautiful moments for people like that are easily attainable, you know. Um for a lot of yeah, in a lot of areas of life, it's like you know, I can't afford to experience these other certain things, but like I can buy a cup of coffee. And uh um and so I think that was meaningful to me to be able to, you know, just try to um produce the best possible coffee for people um that I could. And uh, you know, to see people smile and to bring bring joy to their their faces in their day, and um yeah, it it uh it was as much for me as it was for them, I think. You know, um it really is impactful.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah. And then they drink it and it's gone. Yep. See you tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. Um what's your uh you got uh a latte art you like what's your best latte art you can do? I mean you you got the dragon, you got the tiger, huh?

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Uh I mean I can I can do I can do it. Yeah, I've I've never been a big fan of like uh swans or that kind of stuff. So I I'm I'm pretty traditional, I guess I'd say with what I pour, but I I'm alright.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Okay, nice. Yeah. Um I think, man, when you were working at your first coffee shop, did you have the idea like maybe one day I want to own my own and do this?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Uh initially I did think that. Um I was thought I wanted to open a coffee shop, and then I worked in a coffee shop for 10 years, and I thought I do not want to own a coffee shop. Um and how we ended up actually like owning Slow by Slow is um kind of a strange story. I I actually decided I didn't want to pursue that, um, pursue owning a coffee shop. So I went went to school uh or back to school and um was was trying to get a a um like a ministry degree. Um and my wife um was working full-time, I was working part-time so at coffee shops. Um we ended moving we ended up moving from Seattle to Boise in at the end of 2019, like November, I want to say. Um and I was looking for a job that was not coffee to do part-time while I was in school. Um, but my little sister actually worked at Slow by Slow, and they had some weird like scheduling conflict where they accidentally had like two people schedule really long vacations at the same time. And so the owner um knew I had some experience and just said, like, hey, would you mind just covering a few shifts like while we're gone? I was like, Yeah, sure. Like, I needed a job, you know, whatever. Um, and so I started kind of just like intermittently covering your covering shifts there while we were like looking for a place to live and and uh trying to find jobs and all that stuff. And um a few months later, co or COVID happened in like basically January, but it got serious over here like a month or two later. Um and so I wasn't able to find a different job. And so I ended up just working at slow by slow for the next couple years, um, while things mellowed out. Um and we were my wife and I were planning on me graduating from school before we started our family, and uh we found out she was she was pregnant, and so um I was like, oh frick, I gotta find a way to make money. Yeah. So anyway, I I approached the owner um about buying it from him, and uh it worked. The rest is history.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Wow. Yeah. Had he made it clear to anyone that he was like looking to sell?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

He he was. I knew he was. Um he he and I hadn't talked about it, but I knew he he wasn't like um like actively kind of putting it out there to people, but um he was he was looking for someone to sell to. And uh I had zero interest um until that point. And then I was like, this is what I know how to do, so you know, that's uh I guess it was worth a shot.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Wow. Were you doing any of like the back end administrative stuff or like operational stuff before? Were you just making coffee?

SPEAKER_00 9:55

No, I was just making coffee. I um I have zero or had zero experience um on the back end, and so um that was a pretty steep learning curve for sure, because I I knew the the actual like production side pretty well, but um how to run a business was like nothing.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah, I think um I think a lot of people who go into coffee as barista originally, like I I'd say uh quite a few have the idea, like, hey, I want to run a coffee shop one day, you know, and think it's just gonna be like, oh, it's just you know, we're just gonna make coffee, it's gonna be all good. But I'm sure it it goes way deeper than that. And you experience it firsthand of like going from just barista roll to okay, now we're ordering supplies, now we're hiring and firing people, now we're doing marketing, now we're trying to find these other things to do, like events and whatnot. Um, yeah, what was that switch like? Like going from just coffee side, which is like the thing you love, the thing that got you into it, which you probably don't even do that much anymore, right? And now you're on the operational side with that shift, kind of what was that? What'd that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Correct. Yeah, I um you know, I love coffee itself and like the ritual of making it. And I, you know, especially like when you've been a barista for, I don't know, 10 years or whatever, it's hard to change your mindset and start to realize like I'm actually a business owner now. Um and I can't um I can't just do what I used to used to do. Um, because the business isn't gonna run itself. Um the learning curve was pretty steep. Um, you know, I think um I didn't know anything about like filing taxes or like s setting doing running payroll or uh you know like um tax exemption and you know uh I mean all of all of the things that come with with business were brand new to me. Um and so and we had our we had our first baby I think three months before we actually like took over the business. Wow so there was there's two pretty significant life changes kind of that happened in that period um that were both just like rock and my world for a while. Um and so um it was tough. It was tough. I do get a lot of people that come and say, you know, like I have me and my wife, we have these professions, but we think like, man, that'd be so fun just to like run a coffee shop and like yeah, you know, I it's probably not, but you can try. Yeah, you're like nah, don't don't do this. I think I mean I th I think it it probably depends on on what you actually want, but if you actually want to like turn it into a a viable business um that can provide for your family and for other people, um it's a lot of work, man. Um takes a lot of work to to grow it. Um and and coffee by its nature is is a volume business, and so you uh you have to be busy in order to be successful. Um and that has been kind of a a challenge for me, um, because our whole business model is about you know like kind of slowing down and producing high quality beverages and and uh serving people. And so finding the balance there has been a challenge. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah. Um I hear you with with growing the business and just increasing volume. How do you feel? Do you feel like you've taken certain steps to help grow the business since you've taken over? And maybe what have those been to to help increase that volume and and grow slow by slow?

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Yeah, I mean, I I don't to be honest, I haven't done anything like specifically with the intention of growing the business, you know, like there's no like marketing campaign or or um anything like that. I think um my the way that I'm wired has just been like my focus has been on kind of like continuing to iterate on like quality and uh just producing the best coffee that we can. Um and that's gone like everything from um who we source coffee from, so kind of like trimming that. Uh, we used to serve a lot of people. And um rather than just focusing on variety, focusing on on quality, um and um to like details about how we make coffee and kind of like focusing on those little things. Um and then also service. I think um hospitality is really at the heart of what we do, um, because you know, like coffee only matters because people matter. Um and so um everything we do is kind of uh or at least I try to um view it through that lens of like how we can best serve the customer and give them the most value. Um and I think you know when you make a lot of small decisions through those kinds of lenses um over time, you know, it has paid off.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Nice. I think on the people side, um I think you make a good point of being hospitable to people and and providing good service, especially in an industry where if I go in and order a coffee somewhere and the barista isn't the nicest to me, it's like okay, I'll go to any of the other 15 coffee shops in downtown Boise.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Yeah, I think there's there's like the the kind of like maybe more philosophical aspect where it's like you know, like talking about the intrinsic value of people, but then there's the practical aspect of like I need these people to come back, you know, like I want to keep these customers. Um and so there's kind of a you know twofold um benefit to thinking that way. Um, but when I when I first took over, somebody gave me a book called Unreasonable Hospitality. Um and that book really kind of shifted, I think, the way that I think about what hospitality is, um what it's all about, and also just like the limitations that we place on what's possible in the service industry. Um because in coffee, like there's kind of a basic formula that most people follow, um, which has been successful and that's why people follow it. Um but I think what has happened is it's kind of um neutered any sort of like distinction or anything that makes like specific places special and stand out. And so that's one of the things that I try to think about as much um as much as possible is like how can we serve people in a way that's going to surprise them? You know, that's that's um not something that you would expect from from a cafe. Um and one of those I mean, just being nice is like a good place to start, you know. I think even as uh working in coffee for uh I don't know how long it's been now, like fourteen, fifteen years. Um I still like will go to places and feel super uncomfortable, you know. Um and sometimes it's like the way that people uh treat you, or sometimes it's just the layout and the like lack of communication um makes you feel like I have no idea what I'm supposed to do. Um and so I try to take that into to account and um there's still a lot of friction points as slow by slow for sure, um, that we're always trying to iterate on and and uh change and adapt. Um but yeah, I think I think that's that's really important.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Agreed. Uh do you guys bring the coffee out to people after they order? We do. I love that. I love that. And I notice when they do it at coffee shops, because it it I don't know, it just makes the experience like the normal experience of place your order, go sit down, they yell your name, you get back up, you go get your coffee, you come back, you get to work. But like if I can just order my coffee and sit down and start and someone brings it to me, wow. Yeah, that was and it's it takes what the brista, 20 seconds, 30 seconds to go walk, drop it off, come back. And little things like that, I think they do add up.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah, absolutely. That's that's a conscious decision that we've made is that we are gonna serve every customer their drink at their table. Um, and um we try to call everybody by their name. Um and um we consciously do not yell out drinks, um, because I mean I I hate that, and so it's partially just that, but um, it is kind of like so abrupt and obnoxious to me. Um, and so like if we're kind of taking a holistic view of the um environment of the shop and like everybody's experience, you know, like um random shouting doesn't really help create like an enjoyable environment to to be in, and so so we um we purposefully don't do that and try to serve people at their tables. And um I do think those small things make a difference. Not everybody notices, but over time, you know, it adds up.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Are there any other little snippets from unreasonable hospitality? That was the name of the book, right? Are there any other little snippets that like kind of stand out to you that that you've implemented that you feel like uh have really like moved that forward for you?

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah, well, I think that um maybe one of the um the biggest things is just that in in the book, he uh the the guy who wrote it um makes a point that um people aren't going to remember what they ate, or in our case what they drank, but they're gonna remember how you made them feel. And so it shifted because like in the beginning, I was obsessed with like product quality, which is obviously important. Um but if you serve a great product, um but you don't care for people, you don't, you know, and you give them a bad experience, um, then you haven't created anything that's really meaningful for them. But if you serve a great product and you make them feel really good, um that creates a memorable experience. And I think that's kind of where hospitality begins. And so that's been that was probably the most impactful thing um that I got from that book.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Nice. I think uh it starts with the people, right? You gotta have good people. How have you like found good people and how have you kept good people to work it slow by slow?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Dude, I you know, I uh I don't know. I it's a mystery. I yeah, I mean honestly, because I think I I feel truly like I like I have the best team. They're they're incredible. Um and we've obviously like we've had some challenges with. People in the past and stuff like that, but I think overall um like I've had very low turnover as a cafe.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Um which is uncommon.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah, yeah, really uncommon. Um most of the people that are that work at Slow um are you know adults. Um and uh and they stay for for um a good amount of time. And so I don't I don't really know what it is that has like a drawn good people, but I think uh I I don't know, I just feel blessed by who we have.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

That's awesome. Yeah. Um yeah, that's that's pretty cool. And being adults is also working at a coffee shop is uh a college type job or you know, an entry job for a lot of people, but yeah, I think you do have a a good crew there, and obviously they want to stay there and they want to be there and they want to be part of you know what you got going on. So that's cool. Um I applied for a job at Slow by Slow back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Did you really?

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah, no, when was that? Let's pull it up. We pull it up here. So um, yeah, back in the day. So I started at Dutch Bros way back in the day. Yeah, and then I remember that. Yeah, and then I met one summer and I was like, all right, I'm gonna apply to like I'm gonna get a cafe job, like sit down, more traditional coffee shop, not a drive-thru. Yeah, and so I applied to like mostly coffee shops downtown Boise. Um one of them, which we'll give unnamed, not slow by slow, but one of them I did like two interviews, and they're like, Oh yeah, we'll we'll let you know, we'll let you know um what we think. Still waiting to hear back. I'm really giving them back coffee shop anymore. Let's chat with them. We were going back and forth a little bit, and he wanted me to work certain days, and I was like, ah, I can't work Saturdays. He's like, I can't I can't work Saturdays. He wanted me to work Saturdays and I can't I can't do it. Uh we've decided to add another part-time position. We're feeling more good having you on Friday, Sunday, Monday. Are you interested in making that work? I said, that's great. I have a few other interviews coming up, but uh, I'll let you know as soon as I can. He said, Thanks for getting back to me. Let me know whenever you can. Um, please let us know your choice. Um, we're still exploring other options as well. And then uh I must have did my other interviews and and I reach out and I go, Hey, thanks for making my my availability work. I accept the position. I have a CrossFit competition this weekend, but I should be good to start training next week. Um, yada yada yada, I'll let you know when I can start. And then Joey mows me back and goes, Hey, I'm still waiting on another interview. Um, I'm sorry if the last email sounded like a concrete offer. I was just checking in to see if you'd found a new position or changed your mind. I'll let you know what our decision is. And I said, Okay, gotcha no word. And then I didn't get the job. I was like, yeah, when was that? This was uh April of 2022. Oh my goodness. Um, it sounds like you were doing some interviews. I'm waiting to hear back from Ian on this interview, but I'll get back to you soon. So you were you owned it then, yeah? It was like transitional period.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

That was literally like when we were in kind of we were in negotiations and we're about to close. And so he was hiring somebody, but like kind of basically saying, like, hey, I have like these options. I don't remember him saying this kid's probably uh um and so anyway, um yeah, my bad.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Could have worked for you, man. It could have been cool.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Well, I think it worked out better for you this way, probably.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

I think it all worked out. Yeah, it could have been fun. What competition was that? It was probably the the proven competition, not the one we did, but the second one? Probably the same one. Oh, okay, yeah. Um, but yeah, I thought I thought that'd be fun to share with you. Dude, that's awesome. Um okay, nice. Uh you ever deal with any uh any crazy customers in the coffee world?

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Um I I mean yes. Um I think especially like Boise's very chill. And you know, um, which is great, but it doesn't give you a lot of stories for podcasts. That's okay. Um but working in South Seattle was was another story. Yeah. Yeah. I I one time um where where I worked, um we we were very close to like a major metro station. And so um there was a lot of um like homelessness in the area and stuff like that. And so we'd have people come in and buy coffee to just like hang out for a long time. Um or just come in and you know, try to like bust up in a corner or something like that. And uh I had this lady one time come in and she was like seemed like a little, I don't know, manic or something. She was just kind of like all over the place. Um and she was talking about her doctor and how she like she had an appointment to get to, but she lived far away and all of this stuff. I was like, you know, can I get you a cup of coffee? Cool. Um and so anyway, I got her like she, I don't know, she got some coffee, and she went, we had these these comfy chairs in the back of the cafe, and um she went and sat back there, and she was back there for a long time, and I remember I seeing like people just started like leaving, like everybody. I was like, what is going on? Like he cleared out the cafe, and I go back and realize she had passed out and literally peed all over the floor, and I I had to literally go up to her and like be like, excuse me, ma'am, I think you peed yourself, and um can I help you? Like, what can I do? And uh anyway, it smelled really bad, and everybody left and uh had to clean up some ladies' piss off the floor.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Wow, yeah, that's brutal. Yeah, that's really brutal. So anyway, nothing like that since here in Boise?

SPEAKER_00 28:48

No, nope, and we we share a bathroom with our building so we don't have to clean up.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Even if it's like magical, it wouldn't even matter, yeah. Yeah, I got fine.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

But but yeah, nobody's peed on our floor yet.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

That's good. Yeah, it's a huge win. Yeah, it's good. Um, all right, so you got some you got some customers like that. Um then I'm I'm sure you have your your customers who are like some of your favorites. You probably have some regulars, probably quite a few. Um what are some of those people like? What's like uh what's a person that when they walk in, you're like, dope. Billy Bob's here. He we love Billy Bob, he's our favorite customer.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

I mean, honestly, it's funny because like every year we have like a Christmas kind of or like a holiday staff dinner. And uh we've ended up talking about like, man, who are the best? And we just talk about like all of the best people. Um, and there really are so many people that it's like I actually am excited to see that person, you know. Um and everybody's excited to see that person. Um I think one of the things we've had to actually like kind of talk about is okay, it's great that we like care about these people, but we have to like care about everybody. You know, like you can't just lock in with them and kind of ignore these other people. So um, but you know, I think one well one major example is like um a customer who when I when I first took over, I was trying to like update our branding. Um and I was having a really hard time with this lady that I was like connected uh recommended to in Denver. Um and it kind of is starting to get like really stale and like um not very good communication and um I was starting to get frustrated, but I didn't know like I don't know anything about Brandy. So um I didn't know exactly what I wanted, I just knew I didn't like what she was giving me. Um and so one of our customers was like, hey, like you know, I kind of dabble uh in this stuff and I'd be happy to take a look for you. Um and so I showed I showed him and he's like uh do you mind if I like give it a shot, you know? And and uh so anyway, he um just kind of like whips up some stuff and instantly is like, uh oh, this is it. Um and anyway, that person has has uh basically since then been doing all of our stuff and just uh like honestly mostly given everything perfect wow just like as yeah. And um you know I think we yeah, I don't know, we're just surrounded with with great people and I feel I feel incredibly blessed, you know, with the customers we have and the employees I have. There's there's a lot of um moving parts behind the scenes that uh have nothing to do with me, you know, that makes all of us so successful.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Yeah. You're you're you're being humble, but yeah, I think it all trickles down. Um isn't that so cool how just those little like little interactions that just occur and lead to these much greater outcomes. I uh I used to work at a coffee shop downtown. Um and one of the regulars there is a filmmaker and like helped me make a it's pretty much the story of CrossFit Casual. It's like um the story behind our puffin and all of that. And I just knew him because he was a regular at the coffee shop, and I was like, oh, Tom could probably do that and hit him up and he did that, and it's like all these little serendipitous interactions happen. Um, have you ever had any other interactions at the coffee shop where you maybe meet someone and they know someone and that person can help you or um anything in that sense of just meeting people who have done good for you just from the coffee shop?

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Yeah, I mean, honestly, like I mean, we just completed uh a renovation of our downtown space, and so much of like the work that's been done and stuff was like through connections and connections of connections and um you know there there are so many people that are like willing to they like want to help out and to invest um in with their you know their time or their skill or whatever and um so I don't I don't have any like any other ones top of mind, but there's there's been a ton.

unknown 33:28

That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Um how's the design coming along? How's the interior?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Uh I mean it's basically we I mean it's been it's been quite a ride. Uh and uh we I mean the the actual design is is like done. It took a long time for us to get our final occupancy because of some ADA stuff. Um and because it's an old building, it was all very complicated, and there are a lot of limitations because it's like if we move this thing, then that means we have to bring everything up to code, and it's like I don't want to do that because that's gonna be super expensive. So um we had to go back and forth a ton with the city, and the city has been um you know fairly slow, slow moving. So anyway, we got full occupancy. Um, and we will be fully open um with all areas of our cafe on July 1st.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Let's go. Yeah, dude. Let's go. That's exciting. Fast by slow. Is that it? Let's go, dude. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm excited and maybe more relieved, you know, that it's finally gonna be over.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

I'm sure. Yeah. Nice. Um, I did I did my due diligence, did a little research. Did you guys win an award on the on the design of the inside? We did. That's pretty sweet.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Tell me about that. Yeah, we um so we honestly it was pretty funny. Um, I found out there's um something called the world of coffee, which is uh expo, which is kind of like the biggest coffee expo in the world, and it it moves around from big city to big city, but um it was in San Diego, and so you know I thought um I'd go down. I had a few like some equipment stuff I wanted to look at. Um, and I have some friends as well and family down there, so it's a good opportunity to go just kind of say what's up to them. Um but they do like design awards for different categories, so it's like rebranding and other stuff, but there's also like a cafe design. Um and so I we realized that like the day before the submissions were like closed, um and we basically I was talking to my friend about like can I find a photographer? We didn't have any professional photos. Um and so I was trying to figure out like can I like just take some with my iPhone? Like, how do we, you know, how do we submit? And um you submit like a little ride up and then I think five photos or something. Um and my friend was like, well, hold on, I think I know this um this kid that might be able to do it. And so he calls him up at like 5 30, and the deadline is like midnight that night or something like that. And he's like, Yeah, like I'll I'll be over. And he like rides his bike over. I think he borrowed his dad's camera, he's 18, and literally just snaps some photos, and we were able to get submitted, and um anyway, we won, yeah, best uh like uh cafe design or something like that. Um and so it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

That's sweet, that's super cool. I think uh kind of like a few of the main pillars that like make a coffee shop what it is, right, is the people in the service, right? And then it's like the quality of the coffee, but then it's also like the space itself. And you guys do have a unique space. Um yeah, how do you feel like uh I don't know, how do you feel like your space adds to the experience? Was there a lot of thought put into how you kind of laid things out and how you designed it? And I know you have some artwork going up on the walls, and yeah, what's kind of that that design side look like?

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yeah, I mean there they're there's a ton of thought in in the design. Um I think one of the things like so the reason we did a whole like build-out renovation thing is because we used to be have a much smaller footprint and we were getting full up and like losing customers all the time because people would walk in and like look for seats and be like, oh I'm gonna go somewhere else. Um and so we had reached this level where we were um losing business and I didn't like the design or layout of the cafe as it was anyway, and so it was kind of an opportunity to try to like rethink how we do it. Now, in my mind it was gonna be a little more stereotypical initially, um, because the space right next to us became available. Um, and I started talking to the building manager about like, you know, could we lease the space? Would we be able to like, you know, connect the two spaces? Um and it started to become more and more possible. And so I started talking with with my um designer friend who had another uh his best friend is like uh architect um down in LA. And uh so we flew him up here and we started kind of like talking about, you know, what what are our goals, who like what are we trying to do, uh, what are the limitations that we have, and uh how do we kind of address all of those things in this space and when we're like expanding the layout of our cafe. I don't know if if you've um for those of you who have been there or if you haven't, is like it was just a downstairs and upstairs, um, but when we expanded next door, um that's on a different level as well. And so we had like three three levels, um and which made it a little bit hard to figure out how we could make sense of it all. Um and luckily like I have um some, you know, like the my um friends are very creative and uh we were able to come up with something that um I think is unique, which is what I wanted. Like I I didn't want it to be what people expect. Um and so if you go in, you know, you'll see there's a ton of raw materials, whether it's like just raw steel or wood or concrete, um um form board concrete on the walls. Um, and all of that was very intentional. Um, but um yeah, the the the process of getting there was kind of a like you know, we started over here and just slowly it it morphed into this thing that is it is now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

Yeah, I remember the the old layout. I could see how it would fill out. That probably felt bad when people get in line or look in and then leave. You're like, what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah, I mean, that's you know, like I guess it's better than not having enough business, but uh it still like it does not as a business owner, it doesn't feel good um, you know, to see people that like want to come and support you or want, you know, just want your coffee or whatever, and uh to have them leave and uh have you know a negative experience, I think uh that that really bothered me. So I wanted to figure out how to address that. That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

I think it I think it is really important because you can just tell when you walk into a coffee shop and you feel kind of the atmosphere of like, okay, what am I what am I getting into here? And I know I've gone into coffee shops that they just feel kind of stale. And it's like, you know, maybe they serve me a really good cup of coffee, but it's like uh this I don't wanna I don't want to sit in here for two hours, you know, and and do work on my laptop or whatever it might be. Um yeah, so I think that's important.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Yeah, I think um one of the things that actually like really was um a driver for us was like how do we um incorporate like interest into the space, you know, like make it something that um rather captive captivates people's imaginations and and like kind of creates a moment where you're just like like whoa, what's behind there? Like why did they make it out of this? Or you know, like those kinds of things. I think we um we we live in a world that's like increasingly digitized and and many of us like live most of our lives in or uh the online space or like you know in front of our computers, um and we don't interact with real stuff that much. Um and so you know, one of the things we want to do is like uh as we bring people in and you know serve them coffee in our space is like kind of help people re-engage with like the real world, you know, with physical things that are beautiful and you can touch and feel and um look at and um smell and all of those things because I think that's um one of the primary values that we can um add to to customers. That's cool, that's thoughtful.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

It shows and it's it's a cool space. The open bar, the the the windy line to get in and the staircase, and it's cool. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah. Um well sweet dude. Um you're family man. I am. Um you got two girls now, yeah? Yes. Do they drink coffee yet?

SPEAKER_00 43:24

I have given my uh on on my um older daughter's fourth birthday, I got her a decaf cappuccino. What'd she think? Uh she liked it. Yeah, she's down. I we put a little little syrup in there, you know. There you go. Um but she actually actually she since since she was like little has been interested in like she used to go up and smell the coffee beans in this cafe. And then uh because she would see me do it or whatever. Um and then she would always ask, like, can I when I'm at home, like, can I try a coffee and so I would let her like just lick it and uh she's like that's good yeah and um her mom doesn't doesn't love that that's okay yeah she's she's in man she's gonna be ruined for life for sure are you two cups a day three cups a day type of guy I I probably drink like two to three cups a day I would say yeah yeah um honestly like on my days off I drink more coffee when I'm at work I don't drink that much coffee because I usually like we'll get a cup and then set it down and like go do stuff and you know that can happen multiple times throughout the day so end up not not actually like sitting and just drinking a cup of coffee.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

Yeah fair um I know we touched on a little bit before we sat down here um but like taking care of family and taking care of business um are two pretty separate things and like trying to find a good balance of like am I spending enough time on the business versus am I spending enough time with the wife and kids um how's that look like for you in terms of figuring out your priorities and and making sure you're you know putting family first and and putting work where it needs to go how's that look like for you yeah I mean that that has been you know the the toughest um element of business ownership for me to figure out is um you know a business by its nature is demanding um and if you um are driven or motivated or interested in what you do at all then um that can easily start to um kind of outweigh you know like your um it can take you away from time that should be spent with your family.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Now I don't I don't know if there's necessarily like a right amount of time to be spent working or um with family and I think um like all things it's it's cyclical you know and there's seasons um of busyness and I think this last year for us has been one where like you know I I would be at work all day and I'd go home for dinner put the girls down and then go back to the shop and be there till three in the morning you know like doing stuff trying to get open and um so that that was really tough because I think um one it's like um I guess maybe the most significant currency we like we actually have is is time and attention. And so if I'm spending all of that away from my family um to build something that is for them um you know like in the future when I look back um I don't want to regret missing like not investing my time with them but like investing it in building this thing that they don't care about or like you know maybe it pays for their college or something but they resent me because I wasn't there. Um so um I think that's a shift that I've been trying to trying to make is like um being more intentional with spending time with them but also like supporting my wife I think you know she um she works part-time but she's at home most of the time with them and uh for anybody who has kids or spends all day with kids you'd know it's it's uh it's a ton of work um and I think for our marriage and our life together to be successful like uh she has to feel supported by me um and she can't be solo parenting and so um you know figuring out how to do that while you also have to you know like there are certain things that have to get done in order for the business to to operate and um I don't have a answer for like how to do it but I think um being I guess um being able to identify what your priorities are um is really important and then communicating um about like what has to happen um you know with my wife as far in advance as possible um is also really important. Um and I think one thing I'm I'm still working on is is learning to distinguish between like things that are pressing um and things that are actually important. Yes. Um because it's like if you run out of this ingredient or something that feels pressing but like big picture that is not that important. Um that's an easy fix and it doesn't have to happen right this second. But in you know the service industry those things happen all the time and uh it's really hard to not allow that pressure to control your entire schedule.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Yeah I think too in the cop shop and in the service interest like so many things just get thrown at you and are just like screaming for your attention.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Uh-huh yeah yeah yeah and I I'm honestly like I'm not naturally very good at um prioritizing um you know like in identifying like what's gonna make the biggest impact and kind of putting that at the top of the list it's just like what is demanding my attention the most right now uh you know is has been typically what gets it and I think that's that's not a very effective way to run a business.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

Yeah. Still figuring it out as we go along.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

100% every day.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Every day yeah I have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah but uh it's almost like uh I don't know it's a tail oldest time of like man runs business to provide for family but spends time with business and family wants man back and it's yeah it's hard right it's that's tough but yeah I think I think you're doing pretty good. So I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

Yeah and I think I'm definitely uh we're definitely in a better place now than we were you know when we first started yeah uh that was that was rough.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

If you could go tell yourself some advice when you were first taken over the coffee shop what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Um I don't know chill out like it's like it's it's gonna be fine. I think um I I think there are certain like there are just certain seasons where it's like you just have to go through what you have to go through. And I think that that is what like the first kind of part of our life owning the c the coffee shop was is like I you know you don't know what you don't know and I I didn't know how to be a business owner or a father. And so like you know trying to figure out how to um do both of those things at the same time um and also how to like you know be a husband to a wife who's a new mother uh it was it was crazy but also like you just kind of have to have to go through it and then you you learn and um and uh our second having our second was I mean it's still challenging but uh not nearly not nearly as as difficult because we learned a lot the first time so yeah yeah. Are you ready to have your your second coffee shop? I mean yeah I think uh I'm still I'm still trying to figure out how to implement like systems and structures so that you know this thing can can operate independently of me I think we're still at a a place where I'm probably like the the main bottleneck I hear you yeah I hear you so I'm trying to figure that out gotcha but I guess uh what is next for for slow by slow where are you heading what are you doing what are you working on um I mean working on a a ton of stuff I think we we do actually have a lease signed um out in Nampa there's been a lot of like complications with that um and delays and so um the um I don't I'm not exactly sure what's gonna I'm not positive what's gonna happen there but I think uh we do have hopes to to expand um throughout throughout the valley and I don't know who knows after that um I think we're opening fast by slow um which um I'm excited about I think it's gonna be a really um great kind of new offering for people like really high quality coffee but um you know um in a really timely manner for for those who have important things happening outside of the cafe. Um and so I'm excited about that and to start kind of like you know figuring out how to get the bugs out. Um I think what else is there? Um yeah so we're we're opening on July 1st uh it's our 10th anniversary we've been at cafe for 10 years so congrats thanks so we're we're doing a little 10 year celebration in July I think the 17th nice um and we're gonna start hopefully doing some food and beer and wine as well so exciting things yeah yeah a lot of stuff man nice very cool um well thanks that's all I got absolutely man thanks for thanks for coming on yeah this has been been fun cool cut