2. How Is Your Setlist Discipling The Congregation?

In this episode we discuss how the songs we sing disciple the Body of Christ.

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey, welcome to the Heavenly Pattern Podcast. My name's Ella.

SPEAKER_00 0:03

I'm Dylan. Welcome. Stoked you're here. Really excited to have a fun conversation today about set lists and how they disciple the congregation.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

What are you singing? What are you singing?

SPEAKER_03 0:14

What are you rehearsing on Thursday? What are you figuring out on Monday? I mean, I would say, I don't know. Maybe you figure it out on Thursday, on Friday. But we're talking about our set lists. We're talking about our set list. We're talking about the songs that we give the church to sing.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Here's really what I feel the most about this is that the worship team, including what we sing on Sundays, is discipling the congregation. Because worship is discipleship.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

You become what you behold. Why is worshiping Yahweh, Jesus, the Holy Spirit? Why is that good? Because we become like whatever we worship, whatever that thing is. If we worship money, we're just going to become this money-obsessed person. If we worship God, we will truly be made into his image. Taken from one degree of glory to the next. So it's really important what we sing and how the worship team even is on the platform. Because what we put on the platform, we're communicating to the congregation, hey, this is good. Leadership has signed off on this. You should to a degree emulate these people because they're on this platform. And the worship team's up there for a long time in a lot of churches, right? Maybe let's just use some rough numbers. Your worship set could be 20 to 30 minutes. Maybe your sermons 30 to 45 minutes. So they're up there like a pretty good amount of time. Um Percentage wise. Percentage-wise.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

What are they communicating to the congregation?

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Yeah. And I do think it's like, I guess when I was thinking about this, I do feel like we're a lot more like children than maybe we'd like to let on. Like we remember things better when we sing it. Like 100%. We remember, we remember our ABCs better.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

We remember the months of the months of the year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Our six-year-old daughter can sing all the books of the Old Testament because they're in song form. Because our kids' church is absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

And that. And like but taught them a I don't know those. I don't know those. I need to learn that song. I'm not even thinking, oh, I'm gonna go to my Bible and memorize it. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna put that song on a couple times to memorize the books.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

And like you could do a simple test, like when you wake up on a Wednesday morning, what's in your head? Yes. What song are you singing? Typically, when we wake up, or you know, the thing that's stuck in our head isn't a line from a sermon. More often than not, it's a song.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

So the songs that we sing are really important because they're forming the bride's theology, they're forming how they view God, how they view themselves, and ultimately we're gonna move in the direction of our strongest thoughts. So we are giving them uh words, pictures, images, ideas, uh, visions of God that inform the rest of their life. Yeah. That's what's happening on a Sunday. It isn't just getting through this time of singing in proximity to one another. Yeah, there's so much formation that's happening.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

We've been doing this together for some time, and we have, I have both of us, yeah, have dissected after a Sunday because every every one of us that's on a worship team has been there after a worship gathering, and you think, man, we did a lot of stuff, but did we encounter the presence of God? Why did we feel like today was a success? Why did we feel like today was a failure or not a success, a flop? Why did we feel like today was a flop? And there are so many variables when you're on a worship team, especially, you know, depending on the size of the team, the uh experience of the musicians and the singers, and did you bring in a new song? How many songs did you play that day? Was the congregation familiar? There's all of that. Yeah, absolutely. And you can take that into account. But some of the things that we used to think made a good set list. I remember thinking, you know, we just don't sing about God enough. There's too much I. Right. Let's get rid of I. Let's get rid of the I. And you know, there's some value to that, but that's not all of it.

unknown 4:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

I I remember when I started thinking about this, I went to Exodus and Exodus 15. And so um this is when Israel is delivered from Egypt. Yahweh saves his people. They're on the Exodus journey, the Egyptians are defeated in the Red Sea. And what does Moses do? He sings a song, he leads Israel in a song. So it's a big deal, right? It's like one of the first recorded kind of um Is it him or is it Miriam? She does one after him.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah, she's got the tambourine, she's leading the women, it's awesome. Uh, but he leads the song, and I remember going through that, and it's about 80% focused on God and his works. Yeah. So I, you know, I thought, okay, well, our sets should be 80%. As long as there's 80%. As long as there's 80%. It's gotta be God focused. 20% I mean. Right. But that's not the whole picture. Yeah. Um, and many times in scripture, songs and psalms and things like that, especially new song, we say new song, and we'll get into that, but in the book of Revelation, when it's like, which our whole theology of worship is based off of Revelation 5 and comparing four and five together. So in Revelation 5, sing to the Lord a new song. There's a new theme introduced, and we're gonna get into that. But new song typically in scripture is a response to Yahweh's saving acts, his acts of salvation or his victory in a battle. So a lot of times when you see sing to the Lord a new song, it's talking about what he did. So there is a lot of value to that, talking about what he has done. Yes. What are some other things we thought?

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Oh, yeah. I mean, we used to think I think having a journey, like bringing meeting people where they're at in the congregation, and then taking them on the journey to then high praise or what whatever it is. Like so singing a song about like inviting God's presence and then having a moment of thankfulness and having a moment of like surrender, pouring out our heart, all of those things into having high praise, which is a really great model. Like, I think it's still a really great journey for people to go on. And I think um I think it's a great way to really understand where the congregation is at as a worship leader. You should be like thinking about, hey, a mom just walked in here and she was fighting for her life to get her children in the car. They ate breakfast in the car. You should be like invitational in your leadership. You shouldn't be like singing a, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Yes, and what's so good about that though, is that you and you said this, you said in your leadership. So uh many times a song, and we can use discernment here, like a song can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you. And a song can be invitational, but more than anything, you, as the worship leader, whoever or the song leader, whoever is leading that song, you're the one that's inviting, you're the one that's welcoming. We talk about this a lot as well. Smiling upon people as the Lord smiles upon us, helping them see, hey, you're someone worth smiling at. This is a bigger discussion that we'll dive into one day, but about Hasid and how that's how our identity is formed. So we're showing them, hey, I love you. You're someone worth smiling at. Just as the Lord has smiled upon me, I smile upon you from this platform in the house of God. I'm inviting you into this. And I acknowledge we've been here for two hours running these songs. Yes. Right? We've been here on Thursday. We've been preparing the space. Um, that's not the same case for everybody. Yeah. There are people with kids they might have just got thrown up on. We have young kids. I totally get it. You are fighting for your life. There's diapers, there's, you know, God bless you. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Coffee, you're still trying to be cool and have an open cup instead of a coffee traveler. Right, that's humbling from experience.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Right, exactly. Just having like a regular coffee.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

But invitation Thanksgiving, you were saying that that journey is still a great journey to have people go on in the congregation. But I think what you what when we were using that model, there's a lot of songs out there that don't focus their lyrics on the lyrical content that we believe are like yeah, that's really the most important things to be in the in the set. Like, um, like, okay, so Whole Foods. Have you been to Whole Foods recently?

SPEAKER_02 8:52

You haven't been to a grocery store. No. You said last night, I haven't been to Ralph's in six months.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

I mean, I was kind of kidding. Kind of. A year is what you said.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Well, um, anyway, but okay, so Whole Foods. Whole Foods has um these new iconic paper bags that they give to you. And on the outside, it says it's what's not in the bag. And it's their like subtle way of being like, we're better because of the things that it aren't in our products. The ingredients that we don't have. The amount that we vet our products, the amount that we like look at every tiny small detail. Yeah. And so I think that has been uh a realization for us of being like, it's not everything that you can fit into the set list, it's what's not in the set list. Because I do think when we gather as a congregation, it is different than what you might need personally in your own devotional time. And not every song that is a fire devotional song necessarily is a Sunday congregational song.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

Would you agree? I would absolutely agree. Yeah, yeah. It's what's not in the bag, it's what's not in the set. So our process for choosing songs needs guardrails. And that's one thing we didn't have before. What are the guardrails? Yeah, how do we choose this?

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Yes, and our our pastor, um, he's amazing, he's a worshiper, he he gives every every song he has ever suggested is an absolute banger. 10 out of 10, we'll we'll be singing it for a year plus, at least, you know, like he just hears the songs, and I think it's because of the way that he's digesting the lyrics. But I think for a long time it was like, oh, well, the worship leader needs to have some kind of deep revelation on these words, or when the worship leader has a revelation on the song, it doesn't really matter what the lyrical content is because they can kind of bring us into this new space of their revelation. And I think that's really good. That's a murky place to be. A bit that's a bit murky.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

I was camped there for a while. I was thinking what made the set great today was that the worship leader have a re had a revelation on the song, which the worship leader having a revelation on the song is almost never going to do the song a disservice. Right. That's really good. But you can have a revelation on a song like you're saying, that's maybe a more personal or devotional song, or in a season that really relates to you, but maybe zooming out here is a little tone-deaf to what's going on in the culture of your city, yeah, or the world, or your church. Maybe you're going through a grieving season together and this song is not that, or maybe you're going through a rejoicing season together and you're connecting to a grieving song or something. Yeah. So there's also a part where when choosing songs like that that you have a revelation on, you have to go, is this for me? Or is this uh something that I feel led by the Lord to bring to the church and lead them in it?

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

And I would say, like, I'm primarily a musician, right? I am not singing. And I sing, and I need to come to terms with the fact that if you strip away everything else in the song, what matters at the core are the lyrics. Yeah, like you're the lyrics. Above anything else, it's the lyrics. It's not the chord progression, it's not the guitar lines. I love all that. In fact, I primarily enjoy listening to instrumental music because I don't want to, outside of worship, instrumental, because I don't want to hear most lyrics that are out there these days because they are formational.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

And like back to what this set is doing, it's forming the way that people think.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Like you and I, anybody in the world, especially now with social media, with subscriptions to streaming platforms, you can tell, see how you're feeling one day, back it up three days. What has my intake been for the last three days that got me to today? Today I feel depressed. Have I been comparing my life to strangers on the internet for a few days? Now I feel depressed. Have I been doing something else that has led me to feel anxious? But we need to take account of what we have done and then trade it. Say, okay, cool. I'm not gonna do those things. Instead, I'm only gonna read my Bible and this maybe C.S. Lewis book for a week and see how you feel. Yeah. And instead of going to YouTube or going to this other thing on my breaks, I'm gonna go pray at work or something. And you will literally see a difference. You're being formed by what you intake. I I had a thought that was like this. I think a lot of times we wake up in the morning and it's like we have a funnel on our head and we go, okay, strangers, go ahead, hit me with anything you got. And it's just like this garbage or who knows on Instagram, on on anywhere. But like the point is we need to guard this. We need to guard how we think. Yes. And so, as a as somebody on a worship team, that's a responsibility that we need to own and say, I need to guard my head and my heart because all of that is going to overflow on the platform, and it's not just about me up here.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

I have been entrusted. We view every member of our worship team as a leader.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

On a mic or not on the mic. If you're on the platform, you are leading because you are seen and you have an influence in what's happening in this sacred, sacred moment. God has redeemed us from the pit. He has breathed life into us. I deserve to be dead, separated from the Lord Jesus Christ. But he, in his grace and mercy, has brought us to be a part of his family and allowed us to be up here, used by him to minister. I never want to take that for granted. I don't want our team, I don't want any team to take that for granted.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

So the way that we show up really matters. The way that we stand on the platform, our unity with one another, even as husband and wife, like, man, talk about potential for disunity there. Kids leading a team together, yeah, doing so much together. We have to prioritize unity in our relationship over anything else. Not just for us, yes, for us, but for the sake of our church, the team, all of the things that we have responsibility for, and that's what I expect of everyone on our team, really. And we strive to make that a reality. But back to the lyrics. So, even as a musician, the point is the lyrics matter, and ultimately, what we will get to, what we believe are the two core pillars of worship, can be applied anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Like it can be applied at a prayer meeting when you have nobody on an instrument. Yes. And I want something so biblical and so simple that you can use it anywhere, anytime, from praying here in our home, even alone, yeah, to a team of 10 or 15 or 20 people on a platform leading a congregation. Home, prayer meeting, congregation, wherever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Yeah, I think too, it's like when you're choosing your sets based off of the worship leader's revelation and based off of the journey, then it can be quite um opinion-based. Like it's not really very, it's not really grounded in um in the boundaries. It's not really in the did you say bumpers, like bullshit guard wheels? I think about like bowling. It's like a kid, we as a church, like when the church gathers, you don't know who's coming. Like you don't know what how baby Christian this person is. Or, and so what if that's their one time that they're in service and are they going to hear, are they going to sing what the faith is actually about?

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Or are they gonna sing a song that's been being sung?

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Or are they going to sing about how they're singing and more explicitly, what we mean is singing about I flipping it from saying something like I will praise you, to you are worthy to be praised. Yes. Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty who was and is and is to come. Instead of I will wait on you. I will this. And again, I'm not even saying those are not good songs, that they shouldn't be sung. I'm not even saying it uh any of that. However, I am saying the other way is better. And does that let's keep going on that example, does that person know who they're singing to? Have we said Jesus? Right. Have we said his name?

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Have we talked about the cross? Have we talked about the reason why? Like in the song, in the song, not just in the sermon. Right. Like in the song, are they are are would people, if they came in late or if they came in early to your service, would they have heard the gospel? What if someone leaves after the 30 second meet and greet during the service hosting? Did they hear about what the God of the universe has done through them for them in song?

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Right. Because the whole service is discipling them.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

And worship is a good chunk of that. Yes. And those words are doing something to them. And then so if you even if you take that right back to like instruments now, let's expand it a little bit. Okay, so the reason many times a guitar line is powerful, and one example would be if we just sang about the cross, someone was singing, putting words to the gospel, and then um now we're doing an instrumental, no lyrics, but the guitar is playing the lead line that the vocal was just doing. Now the person is filling in the blanks of those words, having their own revelation. They're still hearing a voice, voice on guitar, and now they know the words. So now it's like they're hearing their own voice sing, and it's helping them to remember it. So then what happens after Sunday? Monday, that song, there's way more of a chance they're gonna remember that song. And again, this is what we're going to think about. So back to like Instagram and and Netflix, and you watch all this stuff. You begin to change what you value based on what you consume, which is why what we give our people to consume has to be based out of this. It has to be Bible, it has to be focused on the Lord, it has to be gospel. That's what's gonna change their lives. Yeah. And this is why we say presence-driven worship. Yeah, this is why we would say, How do we define success? These two things, which is response, ultimately, and we'll get into this in a later episode. Ultimately, worship is a response. It is obedience, yes. And when you go back to the garden, Adam, Adam's proximity and relationship to Yahweh was dictated on his response, his obedient response to his word. So Adam's obedience led him to uh interact with God. Adam's misdirected worship, boom, nope, cut off. So disobedience was all chalked up to how he responded to God. God said, Do this, don't do this. He said, No, no, I'm not gonna be a priest to you anymore, God. I'm gonna be a priest unto myself. I'm gonna elevate my own thinking above yours, and I'm gonna do what I want to do and trust myself rather than you, and we see what that yields. That yields separation.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Um, so we define success as one response. Did we respond to God's saving act with a new song singing about the gospel? And two, did we encounter him as a result of that? Because even in all throughout the Old Testament, the point of the whole sacrificial system, the tabernacle, is God's presence. That's not a new thing, right? Like thinking that we're presence driven is just a charismatic or Pentecostal thing isn't new. Neither is like set up and tear down church, right? They were doing this in the tabernacle. Yeah, like how much work, like, think about they were raising sheep, they were raising animals just to slaughter them as worship in pursuit of the presence of God. And God moves, they say, Okay, pack this thing up, we're going. Bring the herd, bring all of the stuff. And how cool is it, by the way, as a tangent here, that like God doesn't just leave us to think. Yeah, just think about me, and that'll be enough for you. No, he gives us something to do with our hands. Yes, come and worship, lift up your hands, clap them, jump up and down a little bit, get on your knees and kneel down. Hey, if you're a musician, yeah, bring your gifts in service to the church and do something just like the Levites did, just like the people that cared for the tabernacle, just like the people that were. How many people needed to care for these flocks? Two, two lambs a day? Dude, you need so many of those. So many people. You're caring for them, you're doing all the stuff, you're maintaining all the the 12 loaves, the menorah, all of these things. And so we are so fortunate that we also don't just get to think about it, we get to put action to our what the transformation that's happened internally to us and serve him uh wholeheartedly in our worship. So we define success. Did we respond to God? Yes, which encompasses at least three things. And I write about these in the ebook. If you haven't downloaded it, please do that. It's free, heavenlypattern.com. Put your email in at the bottom, and it'll send it to you right away.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Did we respond to him by singing about the gospel? Did we allow ourselves to be used by him during the set and respond to what he's doing? And then did we encounter him as a result? Because ultimately, it's not the song that's gonna change people. Yeah, it's not the sermon that's gonna change people. Those things are means to an end, and the end is Jesus Christ. Yes. The end is an encounter with him. Yeah, so all that being said, all this talk about formation and what you don't put in a set. What is in a worship set? Yes. What makes a good worship set? That's coming up in the next episode. See you there.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

See you there.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Bye. Bye.