Why This Pastor Teaches Kids to Fight

Brandon Andres Green, host of Good Neighbor Podcast Tulsa, sits down with Jason Lee to talk about ministry, teaching, boxing, football, mentorship, and why he sees it all as one calling to build people.

Jason is a pastor, teacher, boxing trainer, and football coach, but he does not describe those as four separate jobs. He shares how each arena grew out of seeing real needs in the community and wanting to become the kind of steady presence he needed when he was younger.

This conversation gets into the difference between words and training. From the pulpit, ideas can stay theoretical. But in boxing, football, and hands-on teaching, the lesson becomes immediate. Jason explains how coaching helps people face fear, build discipline, manage anger, and discover that they are stronger than they thought.

You’ll also hear about his work with the Oklahoma School for Innovation and Experiential Learning in Bixby, his small-group approach through Sabotage Boxing, and why he believes mentorship is often about consistency more than branding. No big platform. No polished funnel. Just word of mouth, trust, and people who know where to find him.

If you care about youth mentorship, faith-based leadership, boxing, coaching, education, homeschool co-ops, or helping people feel seen instead of invisible, this conversation is worth your time.

Some callings do not stay in one lane.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is the Good Neighbor Podcast, the place where local businesses and neighbors come together. Here's your host, Brandon Andris Green.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Welcome to the Good Neighbor Podcast Live. Today's guest is a pastor, teacher, boxing trainer, and football coach. But he does not see those as four separate callings. More than 20 years, Jason Lee has invested in people through ministry, education, athletics, and community service. Today I have the pleasure of introducing your good neighbor, Jason Lee. Pastor Jason, how's it going? I'm doing very well.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Thank you for having me on, Mr. Green. How are you today?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Doing so well. We're excited to learn all about you and what all you have going on.

One Calling Across Community Roles

SPEAKER_01 0:50

So you work in a church, a school, a boxing gym, and on a football field. Do you feel like it's four different jobs or the same job in four different places?

SPEAKER_02 1:04

I honestly haven't thought of any of them as a job in some time. I'm just uh God kind of put me together this way, and then he he hired me on that at church. The rest of the stuff just sort of flowed outwardly from where I saw needs in the community being needed to be met. So, no, they're not four jobs, it's just one guy trying to see four needs in the community that when he was a kid, this is what he needed, and figured, man, why don't you try to be that for somebody else as I grew up?

SPEAKER_01 1:34

And so, how did this uh even come about in the first place?

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Uh well, each one has its uh, I guess its origin story in different locations. The the calling to the pastoral ministry was through a lifetime. The first 20 years of my life were a lot different from the last 25. And so I got called out of a pretty troubled mess. And I was going into physical therapy school, but making some pretty questionable decisions along the way. God brought enough people and chaos and love into my life that I stepped out of that life and into the the pastoral ministry. So he called me out of that and set me up on this, and through that, the bullied kid to learn self-defense, and then he's been teaching other bullied kids ever since. Uh, the teacher part, they just honestly, one guy sees four needs. That's just how it came about. The calling to the crossroads came first, and everything else, as I met people in the community, kind of outflowed from that.

Faith Meets Gloves And Cleats

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Do you feel like you can teach uh someone through boxing or football maybe something that'd be difficult to communicate from a pulpit or classroom?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yes, pulpits mostly theoretical with calls to action. Boxing and football training are instruction with definite immediate actions and results. So when a kid sees you or a young adult or even a man or woman from the from the crowd looking up at the pulpit, they hear you say all these things that matter. But they don't necessarily understand how they connect to real life. But when you're a boxing instructor that sprinkles in your Christianity, you're a Christian first and then a boxing instructor, you're sweating with them, they're they're learning things, they're practical, all of a sudden there's a rapport that's built. That's the same thing with teaching or coaching or or any of it. Really, one-on-one time is is the uh it's the really intentional places where these things, the growth seems to happen.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

But at least in boxing, you can punch them, and in the pulpit you can't.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

You know, it's one of the greatest things that I've discovered about this industry. It's that occasionally you get to lace up with them, and then whatever's in the basement, you can bring it out and talk about it right there in the ring with them. So yeah. No, it's just uh a natural way to connect the soul to the body, the body to the mind, and in the mind to be ready for all of those things to be ready for service or to be the full person that God's called you to be.

Learning Confidence Through Boxing

SPEAKER_02 4:01

So did you grow up boxing? No, sir. I grew up getting my rear end kicked over my shoulders. But uh boxing came along when my dad realized he wasn't gonna be around as much as he wanted to be, and he was tired of me being a victim. So he threw me in with some guys that weren't victims, and through that uh I discovered that you know the beatings that I received as a younger man really helped me realize that I wasn't made out of glass, and that, you know, the the main thing is the fear of getting hit in the face or trying to hit somebody else in the face. And you know, once you get past that a little bit, everything seems to take care of itself.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

So, how long was that uh overnight transformation whenever you started boxing, or did it take some time to get out of that old stage of being bullied?

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Well, my father thought it would invest in me a lot of uh self-discipline and self-confidence. The self-confidence showed up pretty quick. You realized that you can use these things to help make your life less scary or make yourself feel stronger or better. But the try the transformation took many years. You had to unlearn a lot of things. The hardest one was to get past like the reason you started boxing out of fear or anger, and you all of a sudden you have this new skill set that you can abuse. And I took it in the wrong direction for a while until I started lining up the God in me with uh the choices that I was making, and I got past some of the anger. But no, I needed it to get all the stuff out of the basement, but it was not an overnight transformation, no sir. It took a long time for God to craft me into the guy that I am now.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

So let's say if someone has talent but maybe lacks the discipline, confidence, or even direction, how do you figure out what they're actually needing from you?

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Everybody comes in with a different chip on their shoulder, so you gotta figure out whether it's at the church and the boxing gym or even at schools or on the football field. Each person you relate to them different, each person has different needs or issues or wants or desires that are gonna help them get where they want to go. So you gotta figure out the real reason they're there. And if you can figure out why they're there, what they need, then you can aim them, and then you can aim the talent, and then the the discipline will grow because you're aiming them in the direction that are their bodies and minds and souls are already calling them towards. They just don't know which direction to run. You aim them a little bit, the the the things that they've got inside of them tend to take care of themselves.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

As a uh

What Young People Crave

SPEAKER_01 6:33

parent of boys and teens, I'm curious. When you you obviously spend a lot of time around young people, kids. What do you feel like they're dealing with beneath the surface that us adults are often missing?

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Oh man, what a huge question. Let's see, what are the kids these days missing that the parents are overlooking? Uh I think they need to belong and they need to be. I think the biggest fear is being invisible and not mattering and not belonging. The underlying fear that most people have is not getting what they think they need or what they think they deserve sometimes. And so, yeah, I think what's missing is sometimes this fear of missing out, this fear of not belonging, this fear of being different or left behind. I think that's the biggest thing. Why do you think they're pushing so hard into different things of trying to find out who they are? They're dipping their toes into whatever they can, and they will jump into the first thing that loves them and tells them they're important or that they matter. And sometimes you got to undo that because those aren't always the healthiest places to land. But what they need, yes, is a place to say, you're enough, you belong, you can be something, and I see you. So I think that's if we can get through that. Why else yell? Why the why do you think they make dumb choices? Why do they yell? Why do they act out? They want to be seen, they want to be heard, they want to matter and belong.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

So otherwise, these kids are dealing with the same stuff a lot of the adults are dealing with.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

Yes, sir. That's what it sounds like. It just gets we just kids just get older, we still need those same things, and so we sometimes we sometimes forget it as grown folks, and we look down at these kids and we look at them and we're like, go play outside. But there were times in our lives when we were younger we needed someone to step into our lives and then kind of give us some direction and some meaning and some self-confidence and to have someone say they love us or they believe in us or they can't wait to see what God does in our lives, and they they get 10 feet taller right in front of you, man. It's awesome to watch.

Behavior Management Vs Life Direction

SPEAKER_01 8:33

What have ministry teaching, coaching, maybe taught you about the difference between changing someone's behavior and changing the direction of their life?

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Yeah, I mean behavior can be managed outwardly. On the football field, you can yell at a kid. On the boxing ring, you can tell them. On the boxing ring, you can sometimes show them if they keep their hands too low, they need to keep their hands up. Either there's immediate, but no, if you can't get them the hook to grab onto, if they don't want to grab it with their own hands, you can't grab a hold of them and grab a hold of it for them. And that's the difference, is trying to figure out how to get them internally motivated and see that there is value and benefit and worthwhile in to chase these things, not be dragged there by someone else who's passionate about it.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

I

OSIEL Hands-On Christian Education

SPEAKER_01 9:23

noticed that you also teach outside of the church. Um, what is this O-S-I-E-L that you teach with?

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Um, started this is a new thing for me. Some of the people at my church were telling tales out of school, and the owner of this school came and found me and said that they might have some skill sets that they needed. It is the Oklahoma School for Innovation and Experiential Learning here in Pixby, Oklahoma. Um, they needed someone to come along, and what I thought they would want is like the theology or the history or their philosophy or stuff like that. But what honestly, it just seemed to be what they were looking for was a godly man that would teach some of these things, but also they like the out, the outside, the outdoorsy stuff. They like the the how to teach these young kids how to hunt fish, bake a campfire. That's the things they were interested in. But it's great, it's robotics, it's drones, it's science, it's it's a private homeschool co-op opportunity so that you can do your uh own teaching a couple days at home, and then the rest of the time is teachers at this school kind of aiming them from a Christian-based perspective, but teach them technology, science, all the good stuff. And then they got the theology and the philosophy too. So, as opposed to like a normal high school curriculum, yeah, this this check in a lot of boxes for me.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

And is that open to anyone in the area that's homeschooled, or how do you how do uh students get involved with that?

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Yes, sir. It's a homeschool co-op private school. And so if you uh like some of these kids that go to Epic, my wife teaches, or or some of these that you see big homeschool opportunities out there, this is a place where you can come and have a brick and mortar building. Teachers input VR classrooms building the things, it's all hands-on, it just adds a full-on elite layer to the normal homeschool curriculum.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

And you

Sabotage Boxing And Serving Free

SPEAKER_01 11:11

also have your uh do your own private boxing uh classes. Is this this um at a gym, or how does that work?

SPEAKER_02 11:21

I am a mobile boxing instructor. I have my own space in the church that they are kind enough to let me use for the last 20 years or so, so I don't have to pay for a site. But what's the cool thing is I keep all my stuff in a giant bag and go wherever the firemen or the policemen or the schools or or the football team or individuals that want to train, they will reach out to me and then I'll meet them where they are. They can come to me. And there's not a there's never been a uh full class at sabotage boxing. It is small groups or one-on-one instruction so that I can, you know, I don't make a lot of pies, but the ones I try to make, they turn out okay, I think.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

And uh and this is called sabotage boxing.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Well, it's not gonna have a website. I don't have a brand or a website or a social media footprint per se. Everything in my life for the last 20 years has been word of mouth. You gotta know a guy to come and find me. I'm like the A Team, I just sort of show up when you need somebody. I think God just brings the right people to me. So I haven't tried to charge any money for these things. I don't get paid for any of the things that I've listed except for the church stuff. The rest of it's just been trying to give back. I feel like that's a big part of my life. Is God's blessed me, kept me alive this long. I must be supposed to be doing something rather than just living for myself.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Amen.

Hope, Light, And Final Takeaway

SPEAKER_01 12:39

And so after I guess 20 plus years of serving people, what still gives you hope about the next generation?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Hope hope comes from one place, from the Lord Jesus, but he's allowed me to see that hope grow in young people and grown-ups and strangers for 20 years from across the boxing ring or uh the football field, teaching in the church. There's a lot of darkness out there, but I've discovered that the darker it is out there, the brighter these folks shine because hope springs eternal with Jesus. And so I've got to watch you know, God grow in them. I've got to watch their self-confidence grow, and I've got to watch through these different things, teaching kids and coaching them that I think my hope comes from the realization that as dark as it gets out there, darkness can't hurt the light. And if you can teach them and convince them that they shine, that the light can't ever snuff them out, they they find that hope. Sometimes they find it at the cross, or sometimes they find it with boxing gloves on their hand and they realize who they are for the first time. Sometimes it's just them teaching them a new idea of these classrooms and watching a light bulb go off on their head, or make a teaching them something on the football practice field that they they do on the field, they come running over to you and they trust you a little bit more at that point. I think what's allowed me to have hope is that I'm a hope dealer and people catch it and they run with it, and I get to watch it for 20 years in the same spot, Brandon. You can watch concentric circles grow out. That's the one good thing about longevity and consistency is that I can look back and look around and see. You throw a rock in a pond, that's the first thing. That all those ripples that come off of that, that's where the hope comes from from the Lord Jesus and watching what he's done in people's lives. They all said it's too late, it's too dark, it's too empty, it's too black, there's not enough. And I've seen people for 20 years push back on that idea and watching them push back, watching what God does in them. Man, that'll that that'll put a big old chunk of hope in your heart.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Jason, what's one thing you want our listeners to really remember?

SPEAKER_02 14:49

That Jesus is enough, and that after you've got him in your heart at step one, the life that he's called you to live, the person he's called you to be, starts there and moves forward. No matter who you've been, what you've been up to, that's where it begins. And if you could just find a way to connect to the cross and feed your soul, find a place where you can exercise your physical body and connect your soul to the body and find a thing that stretches your mind and teaches you or forces you to teach so your body, soul, and mind are all connected, and you take those things and you put them into acts of service. You take what God's done for you and you pay it forward into the community and the people that you care about and watch what happens around you.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

It's it's a tremendous blessing. Amen. Jason, I really appreciate you being on the show and thank you for showing how one calling can take shape in several different places.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Thank you for having me on, sir. And I pray for you, and I can't wait to see how much good you do in this community because you're doing the same thing, connecting people, pointing them to the light. So praying for you and your opportunities here.

Nominate Local Businesses

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Thank you for listening to the Good Neighbor Podcast. To nominate your favorite local businesses to be featured on the show, go to gnptolsta.com. That's gmptosta.com or call 918 3201.