What does this Mean to Modern Missions – Urgency

In this final episode with David and Margot Woodworth, Christi and Bill tackle what collective calling actually looks like on the ground today, from resisting the pull of quick results and hyper-individualism to knowing when it might be time to hand something off and say yes to something new.

Questions for small group, team, or individual discussion and contemplation:

1. Which of the three modern challenges discussed in the episode—distance from founders, expansion of mission structures, or the social turn—do you think most affects missions today? Why?
2. Why is the presence or absence of a viable gospel witness such an important factor in defining missionary priorities?
3. How can missionaries remain faithful to both compassion ministry and gospel proclamation without losing focus?
4. What practical questions can individuals or teams ask to evaluate whether they are aligned with God’s mission?
5. If an outside observer examined my time, energy, and resources, would they conclude that my ministry is helping bring the gospel to people who still lack access to it?

Recommended Resources:

 Collective Call paper 

 Slaves, Women, and Homosexuals: Exploring the Hermeneutics of Cultural Analysis by William Webb 

 Apostolic Function by Alan Johnson

 Bonhoeffer’s Missional Ecclesiology by Patrick Franklin

 Missions in the Age of the Spirit by John York 

 Autopsy of a Church by Thom S Rainer 

 Announcing the Kingdom by Arthur Glasser 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hi, and welcome back to the Journey Podcast, where we take mystiology off the shelf and bring it to life because you deserve to be equipped for the call. I'm Christy Trimber, and I am here with my co-host Bill Snyder and our guests, David and Margot, to discuss the collective call. And if you haven't listened to our first two episodes where we talk about what the collective call is and if it's biblically sound, I would encourage you to listen to those two first because today we are talking about what this means for us as you know in modern missions, and how do we live this out today? So that as we reflect on the collective call paper, I kind of see three different challenges in it. There's the distance from the founders, the expansion of mission structures and this kind of social turn and Christianity. And so these kind of shift how we understand mission. So if like if we're only looking at mission as social justice, that changes how we see mission. So let me ask you this, David and Margo, to kind of start us off. Where do you see kind of this mission drift, these, or maybe not mission drift, but these shifts most clearly in missions today as we're looking at the collective call and who we are as missionaries?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

I think one thing that we see a lot is that it's easy to become project-driven instead of keeping in mind the overall purpose. I think maybe, I mean, I don't know what it was like a hundred years ago, but they it sounded like they had things together and what their purpose was for joining together was, you know, that people would find Christ who was going out into all the world and preaching the gospel and preaching churches and reaching people groups. But you know, I I think we all understand projects are important and buildings are important. So as long as those are all moving towards um the direction theologically, I love the last part on the theological background because it's so important. But even as an organization, we can't drift off what that original purpose was, even though we'll have shifts in how we go about doing it. And maybe there's a more of a focus here, there's a focus there, where have things been neglected. But um, I think when everything becomes project or everything becomes building, or sometimes um there is this desire for quick results. I think that that has accelerated through the years, the pressure. You know, we're gonna win a people group in, you know, however many months. And I the other one more thing is short-term is wonderful, short-term work, but it has to be tied to boots on the ground and long-term and be tied to an overall purpose that has more to it than just what I'm going to accomplish today.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah, I think that's very good. Um, let me ask you a question. I I think that America today is even becoming more hyper-individualistic. Um, you know, we want to succeed in certain ways. We want to, this is not a political statement, but the idea of make America great again seeps into so many aspects of life that I'm wondering if that works against the idea of some of these bigger mission things, principles that really will make a difference in the long term for building the kingdom. And how do we how do we fight against that or identify that? Because I I think I think that's really, really a challenge. We are being influenced by culture, even though we say we don't want to be, we still are.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Or or let's just give ice cream out to everyone and calling that a day. And it's like, well, that's fun, but it really is not we have to go back to what's what's our purpose, what's our reason for being. And it's like establishing the church is is such a key component because from the local church you can do so much. Uh some of this peripheral yeah things can be done through a local church. We can do clinics, we can do after school programs, we can do feeding programs, we can do Christmas gifts, uh, but it has to be tied in with the local church. And because that's where the long-lasting fruit will will happen. Uh we we have seen uh people come in in a flash of a pan, as we call it, and do some big event and put on a big stage and then leave. And it's like there it's so sad because it's like you it was hype and and the and there was a lot of excitement, there was a lot of emotion, but as soon as that you know event went away, it's like you're you're back to where you were before. And it just it we just need to plot on and and stick with them and work through that, and build in training and discipleship them and grow little by little.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

And that's the hard work of missions. It is the day-by-day, individual time with people, the discipling of people, the building of relationships, watching God raise up leaders. And that just hits individualistic desires right in the head. It makes it it makes it more challenging. We've got to fight against that to have long-term impact.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Yes. And it's the whole understanding of bamboo. How long does it take bamboo, or you know, how quick does bamboo grow to 10 or 30, 30 feet, whatever? It's understanding that the root system takes four or five years to build. And then in the next year it grows very rapidly. But it's like we we have to set a good foundation, we have to set good roots in for to sustain and to build and to see the church grow. And that takes time. It just takes time.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

You know, one of the things that I love doing, and I don't know what this says about me, you all can judge me however you want, but I love reading like old Pentecostal evangels and um Latter-day Rain journals from, you know, the 1910s, 1920s, early days of missions history in the Assemblies of God, and just about all the different things that were happening. And I like to follow one missionary life. And I see, you know, threads of people who spent 40 years on a particular field or 50 years on a particular field, and you can see through the different newsletters and things, just, you know, prayer requests for dark times, but then, you know, beautiful moments. But it was that staying and that sense of, you know, we're in this to build the church. And it took time, and they were always asking for more people to join. And so then you see these kind of teams coming together to establish national churches. And it it kind of goes along with what you were saying, that it's just this it's not quick and it takes relationship and it takes time and a whole lot of prayer. Like if I could sum up everything that those who went before us did, they prayed a lot. And I think if anything is our collective calling, that's it, that we just pray a lot. But when I look at this paper, and it offers some clarity as far as defining our task. We proclaim the gospel, and I see that in our early missionaries. Like one of my favorite ones is Mabel Dean, very little known. Like she just moved here, lived here for 40 years, never, never had a furlough, planted 42 churches in that time. I mean, she was amazing. She proclaimed the gospel, she planted the church where there is no viable witness, and that provides focus and priority and direction. And in our previous, um, one of our previous episodes, Data, you were you referenced Alan Johnson's book, Apostolic Function, and that's what this is. It's it's that starting something new. And so my question, though, for you guys is about this tension between um pioneering something new and doing the work with the national church of a of an established national church. So when people are feeling that tension, and when we're talking about you know, areas of no access, how how do we live in this tension?

SPEAKER_02 9:44

I think one of the ways is to help people connect the dots. In other words, they're serving in places they've been sent and affirmed to do a work that is in some way supportive. They're uh pouring into the next generation of workers, they might be doing children's ministry, they might be teaching in Bible schools. All of this is important. But like you said, it doesn't feel as pioneer. And yet I know some of them are also going out to the next town. They're looking in their areas and seeing really where is there no evangelical presence? So I know that's happening on the ground as well. But I think one really powerful way to connect the dots is people who are in those roles. It's just um as we get information and we learn more, we need to be concerned in knowing and understanding what the corporate call is, the larger call, what that global vision is. Then we need to be, we have spheres of influence. Whoever we're working with, we need to be taking them along with us in the sense of there is this greater need. Do you know about all these people groups with no gospel access? And so I'm, I mean, we need to get bring people along along with us. So maybe someone is planting a church in a town that, yeah, maybe there's another evangelical church, but that and nothing has been happening a long time. But as they're planting that church, they're saying we are going to have a DNA that is missions-minded, global focused. We are gonna be praying for the nations, we're gonna be praying specifically. You know, we're choosing these people groups with no gospel access. We're gonna work together towards this. So, yeah, I think that um people feel threatened when it's like, no, no, no, everybody needs to go somewhere else. No, we need to be exercising our influence and modeling what it looks like to be more connected globally. So when I say connect the dots, I can't just be looking inwardly to what I'm doing and very locally. It's connecting the dots to the larger picture. But what is it that I can do personally and what is it that those around me I can encourage them in to be involved in in a greater way? So uh let's just mention, like in Latin America, so many workers have been involved in pouring into the lives of people who are now serving among unreached people groups all over the world. And so it's a really beautiful uh thing to see.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

We are in a context where a minority group is the organization we work with, and they're not reaching the majority group. The temptation, I will just say the temptation is well, let's just scrap this, let's forget them, let's start our own. Let's start our own organization or let's start, you know, working with them. Um but uh it'll take a lot longer to start another organization than the change uh with through relationship and friendship and working together and opening the mindset of the others. Again, I think the Holy Spirit can do something so quickly in in calling someone from a local church to do something that is pioneer work and it's just a matter of not giving up and believing that there will be uh outreach to everyone everywhere uh through our organizations, and we just want to stick with that. And because that it takes a while. You have to keep teaching, you keep sharing, you keep preaching, and you talk about okay, let's do this pioneer work, but don't do it alone. Bring people along with you, take people with you to out to to remote areas and and let them catch a vision for it too. I there's several ways of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

There's a nation in our region of the world in Asia that for decades did not see the majority people group as reachable. Um and they had they had quality leaders, there was not attention or anything, it just that they they were blind. You know, there was a blindness to the gospel reaching that. But we have seen how God brings new leaders in, that the influence of missionaries on those new leaders over the decades helped their eyes to be open to it. And today in this nation, there is strong outreach to unreached people, and they are leading the way. But the missionary sewing of vision, the relationship building, as you said, the not giving up. And and sometimes, let's be honest, we all get frustrated with how slow God is at times. But at the same point, when it happens, it is a remarkable thing to see. And it's not based on, well, we finally figured out how to do it. God brought the right people at the right time, and we had influence, but we saw the bigger picture and we kept sewing the bigger picture of gospel access, which which I think is really a vital emphasis that we have today as a mission, that there are people who haven't had the opportunity yet. That needs to be the focus that we're going. And you guys are an illustration of that, moving from Latin America to the present place where you're serving it's it's the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

It's just it's just God, yeah. I still don't understand it, but yeah, here we are.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

So it's our story might be interesting in the area of alignment because we actually in Latin America, that was most of our focus. I mean, we worked at um in the area and the region, but a great part of our focus was in the training and the sending of Latins, and then in working with Kindled people groups in the region. So we didn't feel like unaligned or anything. We're watching people being involved in all of these things. And again, I mean, so many workers involved in these processes. It's really been beautiful to see. But for us, we didn't move from Latin America to Central Asia to realign or anything. Really, it was a Holy Spirit thing. And the Lord had been prompting us about specifically about Muslim peoples for so many years. And we would pray and we would pray and we'd say, Lord, if you ever tell us to go to a Muslim majority place, people, we will go. And then it happened. I mean, I don't know how it happened. I still don't know, but it was definitely the Holy Spirit. But I I think that's what's important is doing in our place of ministry, being sensitive to how the spirit is guiding. That corporate call is so important. It's important the resources, the awareness, our prayer support. We cannot, I we can't limit our prayers to where we're serving. And I would say almost all the workers that we know, they are supporting and praying for projects all over the world. So I mean, I think we that's what we want to do is encourage people. It's not redeployment, it is aligning ourselves with the greater mission and looking for all the possible ways that we can be involved.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

I love that. And I love that our Lord is so big that He sees everything, and that you guys were willing to say yes to something so unbelievably different. And I think that is beautiful and a testament to who you are in your maturity and following Jesus. So let me ask you this question because you have you know made a switch. Oh, go ahead, David. I can tell you want to say something.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

This is the the wonderful thing about a collective call is there is a great group workers right here. And we came in and we just it's like a plug and play. It's incredible. They had a they had they know what to do, they have the setup, they have the training program, the language. It was really uh just we take our hats off to uh the and it and it's this is just not this location. I think it's it's in all different locations. There is already a uh a receiving group there. There's already a training happening, and you just go right in and and plug in and and start over again.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

And we were uh we're thankful we were blessed in the leaving of where we left from and blessed in the coming and being received here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

And and let's let's emphasize again, that's the beauty of an organization or a fellowship that has that same sense of we're not in this alone. There are people that we can find that can help us along the way that have those, that can have those conversations. Um you don't have to go into details, but I can imagine how many conversations you had before you decided to make a change. And who were the people that you talked to that helped to clarify what was going on? It wasn't just, I don't think, an individual decision that one day we said, okay, we're gonna do this. But there were conversations along the way that helped to shape where you guys are sitting today.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

You know, this could be like our well, and then this could be like our sixth midline crisis, too. So I mean, I mean, that all can all figure into as well. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

I think it was already that global global collaboration that is happening within our organization. And so even us being able to visit Latin workers on the field in different places of service opened up for conversation. And we spoke with leadership from our own organization, from Latins being sent from their organizations, their AG from their countries. And so, yes, there were many people, many conversations involved in where we ended up landing.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

So, let me ask you this question for those who are listening and considering this collective call and might be feeling that it's time for a change or a move or something like that from one thing to another. What are some helpful questions that they could kind of work through as they consider the collective call and where they are and um as it relates to what they're currently doing and if they feel the Lord is moving them somewhere else?

SPEAKER_02 20:56

I think one of them is am I replaceable where I am? Is if they're a national local person who could be doing what I'm doing, and that doesn't mean you need to move somewhere else, but maybe um it does it does lead to the possibility of changes in focus and purpose. And for some people, I think it might be the minority, but even change of location or change of focus of people group, this can happen.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

You know, there are some people that will end something before knowing what they're gonna do next. Maybe our older generations we we want to have something in place before we we uh we switch. Um so it it depends, it really it's it's gotta be something led by the spirit. I think one uh I I think Christy, you mentioned there there's a stirring. That's a very important Maybe it's an uncomfortableness, it's like uns unsettledness of oh, I just think that there's going to be a change coming up. But it can't be after five months of being in one place. It it really should be more more long term. But maybe you're at the point where, okay, we started something, but um everyone else is doing a great job and this, and you know, and someone else can take this over and run with it. Uh where can we go? Um I think the question is where where can we go where we could be a blessing and not just a uh sore thumb or or I don't know what the right expression is, but or just to be you know a bother. Where where where can we contribute to starting something fresh or something new? And and where you know it depends on the gifts. You know, if if you're involved with training, uh training is gold and training is needed in a lot of different places. Uh if it's pioneer work, then then go join a team that hasn't you know that they're they're starting from scratch, there's nothing there. And and you get to join them and and and figure it out. I uh I think in the sense of you can ask questions, uh the again, we we serve on a in a group that is across the world that I think that there is a very much uh open to communication and to asking questions and people giving their responses. But uh in the sense of there there is possibilities and and it's just a matter of thinking through processing and going slow. I I I don't know, maybe it's more our old age, but uh in the sense of don't you don't want to make this kind of a move from one day to the next and just or you're in the middle of a crisis somewhere and you just say, I forget this, I'll go somewhere else. But it really should be thought through because the idea and and for us, and we gotta be careful what we say, but we want to stick it here, we want to stay here for a long time. And so we just don't want to come for one year. But the but the idea is that this is the challenge of even if we've never been here, but we're we're decided we're just gonna stick it out.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

We've titled this episode, What Does This Mean for Modern Missions? And in essence, I think what is being said, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but this collective call, this trajectory of where we are sensing the Spirit leading us as a people, is in the movement of people to go to places where the gospel is not. Because biblically, it's the nations. It's not just one nation, it's the nations. And the Lord is going to be in a realignment process among some, not all certainly, but among some. And there's going to be other Woodworths who are going to say, you know what, this is the time to hand off this thing because they can do it. But God still has this vision in my heart for this next place. And we live in an organization where conversations are possible, where these things can happen, where the mission has already said to the uttermost. That goes back to our founding documents, to the uttermost. And so that's an encouragement place for us to be as people who are trying to walk out the journey that God has called us to in serving and building the church around the world. Hey, it's exciting to talk with you guys again. I don't think we've had a conversation this long ever, even though we've been in constantly a lot. But I've always sensed in you this in not just that you're funny people and great to be around, but there's depth and excitement about what God is doing in your life and you're and you're multiplying yourself and other people. And I know you'll do that in your present location as well. So thank you for joining us. Maybe we'll have you back again. If this podcast continues, we'll have you back again. But thanks. We just wish God's blessing on the work that you're doing. Oh, you guys. It's a privilege.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

And what an honor to be invited to your podcast. I know you'll have a huge audience someday.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Well, we're so thankful for Christy Trimber. I'm Bill Snyder. This is the Journey Podcast. And I certainly hope that you'll tell this about uh about what we're doing to other friends and that we can grow an audience because we want to equip you. You deserve to be equipped for the call of God. God bless you. Hope you have a great day.