Religious Stigma on Mental Health

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to another episode of the Black Kalen Journals. My name is Ashley. And on today's episode, we will be tackling the important conversations about mental health within the African American community.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hi, I am Nikki B, the one and only. And uh today is gonna be like a sensitive topic. Like I said, we're tackling the importance of mental health with religion. We do have a guest, new guest speaker today.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Joining us is none other than the one and only, Pastor Gansy.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Hey y'all. It's Pastor Gansy. Uh good to be here. Thank y'all so much for uh having me on your podcast. Just uh a little bit about myself as we get started. Um I'm the pastor of Liberty Hill and Resign Church in Lake Wally, South Carolina. I've been pastoring for six years now. Actually, today is six years. So really just thankful and grateful for all that's uh come along this journey for me. Um I'm a young pastor, though, millennial pastor, so shout out to all the millennial pastors that are uh out there. Just give a little, I guess, context to kind of my connections and ties to um mental health and so forth. Actually, my master's degree, my concentration was pastoral care and counseling. So a lot of what I did uh related to the counseling field. More specifically, a lot of involving trauma. That was a lot trauma-informed care, you know, how to work with people who are experiencing trauma, dealing with trauma, battling trauma, because at some point we all have experienced a traumatic experience. So that's just a little bit about my background. So just looking forward to sharing with you all today some of what I've learned and hopefully it can definitely be helpful to my friends and family in our community.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Amen. So we all know that you know religious, you know what I'm saying, religious beliefs is really a huge impact, especially within the black community. You know, growing up as you know, black kids, you grew up in the church, Sunday school, choir, Urshifu, you know. Oh yeah. So how would your how would you growing up?

SPEAKER_00 1:55

How was that for you? Um man, so I grew up in the church. So I've been in church all of my life. From the time I was a baby, um, I was in church. And then as I came along, Sunday school, I was ushering. I'm I'm a singer as well, so I've been singing since the age of four. Um my grandma uh put me on the youth choir, um, and that kind of started that as well. So I was very active, very involved in the church as a child, and that's really just kind of carried over into my adulthood. I understand and realize that church is it's an important part of my life. I mean, it definitely provides a sense of community for you know, everybody, anybody who's a part of it. Church is supposed to be about community. So love church, um, it's a major part of who I am, and um you you learn a lot in church. I learn leadership skills in church and serving on various positions in various capacities. Uh, you learn how to deal with people in church, especially being an usher, because you know, some people got bad attitudes, you know. So you really learn how to deal with people and how to handle people. A lot of my life skills I got from being a part of church. So Emmy Zion, um, it's a Methodist um body. Um that's kind of how I was born and raised. But um, as I got older and just kind of started exploring things on my own, I got to experience other churches um as well. So it was just kind of good to get that experience as well because there's so many diverse churches around Charlotte. I mean, there's a lot of churches and a lot of churches in Charlotte. So definitely was able to get another feel for how other denominations operate and so forth as well. So it's all helped me to to be who I am today and you know, walk in my calling that God has given me.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

All right.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

So before we get like deep, deep into today's topic, how would you gauge the importance of your mental health and how that's impacted you being so involved in the church your most of your life?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Yeah, so I definitely think that mental health is one of those topics that our community does not talk about as much as we should. And I think a reason for that, and we may get into this in a little bit, but I think a reason is because in our community, you know, that motto, what happens in this house, stays in this house, it has perpetuated through a lot of generations, which has caused us to be silent about our struggles. Um, so I think for me, I didn't live in a household, you know, where I had to kind of silence how I felt. I did go through things, of course. You know, you just because you're in church and you're living for God doesn't mean you're gonna not gonna have any struggles. You know, especially when it comes to mental health struggles. I do think that it's a topic that we certainly should address, that we should bring to light, because there are a lot of people that are suffering, and more specifically, that are suffering in silence. I mean if you look at, you know, suicide rates and if you and not just among a lot of times when we think about uh mental health, we think about older people who've been through life, but there are children and there are youth who are experiencing and going through mental health struggles. So, yeah, so it's just something that I feel like we haven't talked about a lot. And I'm kind of the type of person I want to kind of change narratives, break generational curses. Um, that's kind of a part of my my mission, uh, not just in being a pastor, but you know, in my family to break generational curses and kind of set a new path and to set a new trend. So I definitely think today is a wonderful opportunity to do that and to you know just share the importance of uh mental health and then providing practical resources for people so that they can receive the help they need. All right now. I'm gonna try not to preach. I'm gonna try not to preach. That's hard for preachers not to preach. That's what we that's what we hear for. But uh, yeah. I mean, uh like I said, this is an important topic. So shout out to you and you as well for just bringing light to this topic and bringing awareness so that people can heal. You know, that's part of the Black Healing Journal. How are we gonna heal if we don't talk about it? Right. If we don't expose it's like if you get a cut, you put a band-aid on it, but it's not gonna heal until after you take the band-aid off. And the reason why a lot of people aren't healing because they don't want to take the band-aid off. So, I mean, there's just a lot of things that people experience trauma from childhood. And I and I I talk to my friends about this all the time. A lot of what we are experiencing in our adulthood is because we have not healed from things that happened in our childhood. So, you know, what better way than to talk about it so that we can heal? And then for me, you know, I know a lot of people we like to be in relationships, y'all know, but a lot of us are toxic. And the reason why we are toxic is because we have not healed, you know, and a lot of people like toxic stuff, y'all know. Y'all know I get our we like toxic stuff. Not me, now I'm not toxic. I don't like that toxic. Let me let me put that out there. But I do know people that you just feed off of that. They just like being toxic.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah, you just heal. Like I said, before we dive in even more deeper than what we already got into. So let's get your take on what is your definition of religious stigma on mental health.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

Um, so I think my definition would be when it comes to a religious stigma, something that is preventing you from talking about something or being open and honest about it. And I think because people experience religious trauma, that produces religious stigmas that ultimately impact can impact our mental health. Because there's a lot of misconceptions when it comes to religion and you know, mental health and so forth. So I definitely think you know that stigma is something that's just out there that is just preventing someone from being open and preventing them from being honest and and sharing about what they're experiencing or what they are going through.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

Okay. So you you mentioned something about religious trauma. So you can't give like a definition or an example of that.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think when it comes to and it kind of relates to the misconceptions that people have about mental health. For example, just because you're experiencing a mental illness doesn't mean you don't trust in God. It doesn't mean you don't have faith in God. And I think a lot of people think that, oh, well, you're going through that, just you just need to trust God more or something like that. And that's not necessarily the reason why someone is going through that. It doesn't mean, you know, you're not trusting God or you have a lack of faith in God, or even, you know, you just pray about it. You know, a lot of times we hear that, you know, when people are going through, say, I'm depressed, or I'm going through, you know, I'm anxious and, you know, though, or depression, more specifically depression. Just pray about it. No, prayer is good. And I do not want to let me look at say this. Now, I don't want y'all to think I ain't thinking that prayer is important because it really is important. But sometimes people need a little bit more than prayer. You know, you you need to go see somebody, you need to sit on somebody's couch and cry. You know, and prayer is good. And I think as a pastor, you should lead people to Jesus, but if they're going through the going through mental health crisis and illnesses, you can also lead them to a therapist as well. Because therapists are trained. Like I have a background for my master's in pastoral care and counseling. So I've taken classes and done various trainings and so forth on it. But there are people who are trained in addition to being certified and how to handle when people are going through mental health illnesses and crises and situations. So, yeah, so I think we we really have to rid ourselves of those misconceptions. And then I think that will help our community be able to tackle mental health better if we get rid of, you know, just pray about it. If we get rid of you don't have any faith or you're not trusting God. Or here's another one. People think, oh, you're going through that because you're sinning or you're doing something wrong. And that doesn't necessarily mean that either. I'm telling you, it doesn't matter if you, you know, you you can be saved, you can be sanctified, filled with the Holy Ghost, you are going to go through things in life. And I think, you know, sometimes as believers, sometimes I think we feel like we are exempt from going through things, but we are not exempt from going through things. The Bible talks to us about that, you know, that we're going to go through trials, that we're going to go through tribulations. So, you know, we just have to recognize that that we are going to go through things. Life do be life, and trust me on that, life's for everybody. Even me. I'm a pastor, and I go through things and I go through struggles. But I think the importance in it is people knowing that they have help and that there are resources out there that can really help bring healing.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Yeah. So, more on that point, I think even more like with the older generation, when it comes to mental health and religion, why do you think there's such a strong resistance to people wanting to seek mental health because they're so religious or they grew up in the church?

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Yeah, I just think it's just something that was just perpetuated in our community for many, many, many years about just not talking about, you know, things and just about leaving it in the household. Or even, you know, some uh males grow up hearing that crying is a sign of weakness, and you know, you're not supposed to cry, that we're supposed to always be tough and we're supposed to be macho, and if we don't, you know, do that, it's showing that there's a sign of weakness. So I think those things have been embedded within our communities, and we actually think that, and that's why people don't want to tackle it. And I think it just it just comes from one generation to another and it's just passed down, and then it just continues to perpetuate. But we have to be the ones to, you know, stop that and put an end to it so that you know we can have these critical conversations regarding mental health. So that's why I think it's just like what their parents told them, and then they told their children, and then their children told their children, and then it continues to be, you know, passed down, but it can start with us, it can end with us. I mean, I and I firmly believe that.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Lynch had a uh episode in the first season about why men are not able to cry in today's society. Can you give like um an example or how does faith work for a black man or a black woman in today's society?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Uh I do think faith is an important, important part of who I am. And I think I've it it is. And I just think you you really when you're navigating through life, you you need something to hold on to. You need you need that. Um, because there's a lot of stuff in the world that just changes and shifts daily, and your faith is that that gives you something to stand on. So I believe faith is is our foundation. So I think just being, you know, men and women, uh, we we need faith. It's an important part of my walk with God, and for any of those, you know, others who are listening who are believers. And I think faith allows us, you know, sometimes we're believing things, and it's our faith that's actually gonna allow us to to get to that in which we're believing for. I mean, there are many examples in the Bible that, you know, show us that, you know, and having faith. Jesus, I've been on that series actually with my church for the past few weeks about having faith. All it takes is faith. My last sermon was there's a miracle in your mouth. Those particular passages of scriptures relate it to people, you know, having faith and believing in God. They were going through something, you know, and we we go through things and we have challenges and we have struggles, as I said before, but you know, it's our faith that can get us to the other side. It's our faith, you know, that can allow us to see ourselves. Well, we're going through sickness, you know, you have to have faith to know, you know, it's not gonna always be like this. You know, God is able to turn my situation around, you know, he's already provided, you know, healing for me, which is outlined in the word. You know, we have the Bible, we have the word, and we have to have faith enough to believe that this word is true and that what's in it is, you know, the promises of God, and those promises, you know, will come to pass. So it's important to have faith. It's just an important part of our walk. You need faith, you need a foundation, you need something to stand on in times like these. Because if you look at what's going on even in the government and other things that are happening in the world, it's my faith that really gets me through. It's my faith, you know, that allows me to not be worried per se about, you know, what's happening because I know I believe in God and I know who's in control and I know who's in charge above everything.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

What is the disconnection between faith now and back then when we grew up, like with our grandparents and moms and stuff like that? So what's the disconnect of having faith? Oh, the disconnect.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

You know, I think now in church we have a lot of things that they didn't have back in the day. I think that that's some of it. You know, we we have to have music to make us do stuff in church. You know, you you need a song to make you just wave your hand. Back in the day, they ain't have no instruments. You know, you think about the the church of oh, you know, they had those hardwood floors and foot stomping and hand clapping, you know, so now we're more attracted to those things that move our emotions, versus back in the day, they didn't need all of that. They used to have testimony service. That's how I grew up with testimony service, you know, and hearing the testimonies and so forth. And now, I mean, we just gotten away from a lot of that stuff, I think. And I think even as a young pastor, I have a congregation that is mixed. I have children, I have youth, I have young adults and have the seasoned saints as well. And what I've learned is it's some of that which we used to do that got us over that we still need, but we still need some of what we like as youth and young adult to help us. But I think the disconnect comes in that we we really just need to understand that we we need some of the old, but we need some of the new as well. And I think if we mix the old with the new, the tradition with the contemporary, I think we'll be all right. But I think we can't forget those hymns and all of those things that kind of brought us over. And we also we we like Mary City music. I like Maverick City music, you know. I I bumped to them. I like worship music as well. But I think just the disconnect, it's just a lot of things that have just really changed over the years. And then also this is another thing. The pandemic changed a lot for church as well. And I always tell my church, it's just some people that just not coming back. And it ain't they ain't got no excuse, you know what I'm saying? Like they just they just not coming to church no more. People just you were out of church for so long, you were doing it on Zoom and on Facebook. So people say, Well, I still can do it on Zoom and Facebook now. So, you know, some people still have that. So I think the pandemic played a part and a factor in the disconnect between the two now. Y'all get to church, y'all can get up, y'all like to go to brunch and y'all like to go smoke hookah and do all of this other stuff. Y'all can go to church for an hour and a half, two hours now. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

And speaking more on that topic when we're discussing like the gap between mental health and religion, what do you think would help bridge the two? Because I feel like most of the time they could compliment each other. Like if your faith is strong, and then even if you're still strong with mentality, you still have your faith to fall back on even when you're going through stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

I think we just need to, pastors, we have to do a better job of bringing this to light and bringing it to the table. So something that I do at my church. So May is mental health awareness month, right? So as a pastor, I do something called Wellness Wednesdays for the entire month, the entire mental health awareness month, to where I get various persons who are therapists, who are licensed, clinical counselors, social workers, and so forth to come in and to do sessions about various mental health topics. So uh this particular year, when I did it in May, I did a topic that we don't talk about a lot, suicide. And so people can be really informed about what suicide is. So I think we just have to do a better job as pastors or religious leaders, whatever capacity uh you see you are, to just talk about it, have these types of conversations with our members and then not only have the conversations, but provided them resources as well. It's like you you can't tell if you have a dog, right? You say come get some water. Well, you gotta have something in the bowl for them to when they get to the bowl. So it's just like I can't say as a pastor, y'all come get this information, but not give them anything, not have anything in the bowl for them to intake. So that's why it's important to have the conversations, but you also need to ensure that, you know, we are as religious leaders and pastors that we're giving out practical resources and directing people to where they need to be. So I think it all starts with talking about it, having conversations, not being afraid. We can't be afraid to talk about it. You have to be bold, you have to be courageous, you have to really want to have the or need to have the confidence to just bring these things to light so that we can uh make sure that people are are healed. And I think a part of it is a lot of times we focus on spiritual health, but we neglect our emotional and our mental health. So I think that's another thing. And I think when we go to the scriptures and the scripture says, above all things, that I wish you should prosper and be in good health. I don't think that scripture is just talking about our physical health or our spiritual health. I think that's talking about holistically, and I think we need to actually give a more holistic approach to things as well and not just focus on the spiritual, because you can be full of the spirit, but still battling a mental health illness. So you can have the Holy Ghost speak in tongues, you can run and shout and do all of that good stuff we like to do in church and still are struggling in your mind. So that's what I think.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Like I said, I I grew up in a black church. Uh, you know, Sundays, Sunday schools, Saturdays at practice, stuff like that. But you know, being in a black church, people talk. You know, Sister Johnson can run her mouth downstairs in the kitchen, you know, making them hot dogs for the kids. But for a person that's that goes to church every Sunday, that's in go Bible study, that's in the choir, that's involved in the church, knowing that they have a mental, I'm saying, mental issue, mental sickness, where can they find a safe place to say a I'm not ashamed or I'm not I don't feel guilty of getting help? How can they not feel ashamed or guilty? What can they do or what kind of advice can you give them to say a it's not a problem to say, I I need help, other than this come to church and listen to the word and everything's okay the next day.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Yeah. So I think one of the things as a pastor, and I say this, I don't think you should be a member of a church where you you are able to go to your pastor and you're not able to, you know, that that that's what we're here for, right? You know, you should be able to go to your pastor and and talk to them about what you're going through and what you're experiencing. Or I think as pastors, we should have, you know, points of contacts within our churches to help people um with that. I don't think when we go through mental health illnesses and so forth, we don't have to be ashamed. We don't have to be guilty. We should we, you know, we don't have to feel afraid. I just feel like we need, as you said, you said something that's key, a safe space. And I think as the church, we have to do a better job also of creating safe spaces. You know, we our churches, you may not agree with what somebody does or how they live, but our churches should still be safe spaces. They still should be welcoming, they still should be opening and inviting. And and this is off topic, but it's still on topic. I think that's the reason why a lot of our churches are empty now because our churches are not safe spaces. We don't make people feel welcome. We don't make them feel invited, you know, or willing and open, you know, to share. But I don't think you should ever be a part of a church or religious community, or, you know, now we got fancy names for church. We call them hoobs, and you know, we can start these fancy names, but it's still a church. But, you know, you I don't think you should be a member of somewhere where you aren't able to go to your pastor. That's what we're there for. Like that's what I'm here for. I want my members to come to me and say, Pastor, I'm dealing with this and I'm struggling with this. You know, and then as a pastor, giving them spiritual advice, but also, you know, depending upon the severity of the struggle, saying, Hey, let me recommend you to this particular person or this counselor or this therapist that I think will really be able to help you a little bit. Better than I can because I think what often happens is as pastors, we try to have all the answers, and we don't have all of the answers. And there may be some things that I just don't know. I can share, you know, some things with you, but depending upon what it actually is, you actually may need to go to somebody else. But I definitely think the safe space is important. And you know, we we we don't have to walk in fear or, you know, shame because I'm gonna tell you something. Church people, we have a uh a way of hiding behind a lot of stuff. We come to church dressed up every Sunday. We wear our Sundays best, but deep down, we are struggling and we are going through a lot. And I say all the time, some people were wearing masks before the pandemic. You might not have had a physical mask on, but you were still hiding behind some things. So I just feel like when it comes to that, we have to create safe spaces. And, you know, we we need to make our members and those who are a part of the churches or the communities or the hubs or whatever we want to call it, you know, that we lead, we we want to make them feel they should feel invited and welcomed. And we should have an open door policy. You know, there are some pastors that they preach and they go in their office and they leave. But one of the keys to pastoring is about building relationships with people. That's an important part. Or being a leader, period. Let's just take it off of pastoring from a church setting. When you are a leader of an organization or on your job, relationship building will take you very, very far. I mean, if you build a relationship with those who not serve under you, because I think that's another thing too. I don't have people that serve under me. I have people that serve alongside me because we should all be reaching toward the same goal. Yeah, I may be your pastor or your leader, or you may be their supervisor, but we're trying to carry out the same goal and the same mission. So I could go on and on and on about uh various things, but we need safe spaces and you know, people should feel invited and welcome. But I I think we don't always do a good job of that.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Well, with that being said, uh, I'm gonna do something a little different right now. Let's do a little role play right quick. Okay. So um, let's say I'm a new member in the church, okay, and you can tell that I have something wrong with me. I'm standing in the church, I'm making random noises, something like that, or I'm doing something odd. What would be your approach to me? I know there's something wrong with you, but I don't know how to say it out loud. But what would be your approach addressing that person or what they're going through? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

So I think this is multifaceted because church, we demonize a lot of stuff too. I think that's something that everything is not a demon. It could be somebody is having a mental health crisis. And it could be, you know, if I had that situation because I've been in church and I've experienced that. But you have to have discernment to know the difference between the two, to know what is actually a demonic spirit that somebody is wrestling with, and to know if somebody is just dealing with the mental health crisis or they're just having a moment. So, in that approach, first of all, you have to be prayerful, you know, and you have to have a discerning spirit. And I think in being prayerful and being discerning, that would help me to be able to know how to approach you. Whether I need to do deliverance, bring out the oil and the, you know, or just have a conversation with you and talk with you to see what you're going through and then direct you to the appropriate resources. Because I'm a pastor, I know I don't have the answers to everything. And if I don't have the answer, I'm going to do my best to direct you to that and provide you with whatever resource you may need. So in that situation, it's kind of multifaceted, but that would be kind of my approach.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Now, would you go out your way to help this person or would you let them leave out the door and catch them next time?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Nah, I definitely think that'd be the one of those situations where I don't want you to leave. I think it's people should come into church and to leave differently than they can. You know, you you anytime you go to church, if you're feeling the same way in Houston, we have a problem. You sh it happens sometimes for several reasons because sometimes we just come to church out of hat and we don't come. If we don't put nothing in when we get there, we ain't gonna get nothing out. But I definitely think I wouldn't want that person. I will definitely want to, you know, approach them, especially if I'm the pastor. And as a pastor, I'm responsible for your soul. You know, I'm the one who's praying for you and covering you and leading you and guiding you in your walk with the Lord. So I definitely will want to have a conversation and just talk and see, you know, what's going on and what's happening and really unpack it, you know. And and sometimes I realize that it's just trauma, you know, and when we think about trauma, trauma is not what happens to you. The trauma is your reaction to what has happened. And I think we we need to put that definition out there because a lot of people think trauma is actually the event. It's not the event, it's your reaction to what you've experienced. So people respond to trauma in different ways. That could be somebody's reaction to trauma. And also think about it this way: you never know what a person has gone through before they even have gotten to church. Right. You know, people go through all it takes people, everything within us sometimes to press the church, the pastor included. I think a lot of times we see the pastor uh role as all glitz and glamour, but as I said before, we struggle. You know, people go through things before somebody could have just had a domestic dispute with their partner before they got to church. Or somebody's child could have experienced something. So, you know, I definitely think it's best to have a conversation because you don't want anybody to to leave with that, you know. So I that's how I would approach, I would definitely talk to you. That's good, that's good. Yeah, make sure you're good.

SPEAKER_03 27:45

Yeah. So let's pivot to like a more personal standpoint. Okay. Have you or do you know anyone that has made it obvious that religion can sometimes hinder them from being more open about their mental struggles? Because I know like when I was growing up, what I know now to be depression, anxiety, when I was struggling with like in middle school, when I have to have like, you know, parent issues, personal issues, I felt like God was punishing me for stuff like that. So what would Europe be people that may be struggling with stuff like that?

SPEAKER_00 28:15

Let me start off by saying, you know, just because you are dealing with a mental health-related illness does not mean God is punishing you. So I think we really have to debunk those misconceptions about why we are actually experiencing and battling mental health, you know, illnesses. But for the people who are, you you have to know that it's it's not punishment. Um it's just, you know, we just this is life. We go through life and we go through situations, but there is help. You know, there are resources out there that are available for us. We just have to talk about it so that we if we don't talk about it, nobody's gonna know and we won't be pointed to what we need to help us overcome. Because there is a such thing as resilience. You know, we we can overcome these things. You can go through it. I've been through seasons where I've never been diagnosed with depression, but you go through those hard seasons and you get in a really, really low and desolate place, and you feel like there's no way out or there's no other side of it. I've been through that. Um and I didn't feel like God was punishing me for it. It was just like just life is really hard right now. And you know, I'm just going through some things, but we're gonna go through things in life, but you have to know that you can come out on the other side. And I I look at it this way God sent us Jesus, and the Bible tells us it's through Jesus that we have victory, which means we have the ability because of him to overcome any situation that we are in. So I don't think God will punish me and He's giving me victory over it. Like though you see what I'm saying? So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Yeah. Okay, so I know you talked about this earlier before, but what do you feel like would help? I think even more in the older generation that can make people more comfortable coming to church or being more open to coming to their leaders or pastors about their struggles?

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Um, pastors, we have to talk about it, you know, bring light, have conversations about it. I think that would be a good starting point to bring it to light more. I'm not just in May for Mental Health Awareness Month, but just do a a mental health check-in session once a month with members. And even if it's on Zoom, you know, have a a counselor or a therapist to come in. But people need to know that pastors care about things more than just money. Because I think that's a lot of times people had to like, no, all they want to talk about is money. And no, you want people to know that you care. So, um, and I care about my members. I will wholeheartedly say that. I mean, six years of pastoring, I care about my members, and I try to strive to be there in various ways, you know, even for my kiddos, like my youth, my babies, as I call them, like going to their games and stuff like that. But people have to know that you care. So definitely, like I said, bringing light to it, talking about it. I think that's just the starting point to it all, is just talking about it. So, like today, this podcast, this series, it's a great starting point. And I think a lot of we we need to get this information out the churches, like as it comes out so that people can know, so that they can hear. But I definitely think people need to just kind of be aware, or and and even we may need to define for some people what mental health is. That that's another part of it, you know, defining what it is, what it is not, also, because sometimes what we think is it's not really mental health, you know. So just, you know, there's just several critical conversations I think that we need to have. And if we start with having the conversation, I think that will open the door to a lot of happening and a lot of people being open to having conversations about it and talking about it because I'm sure the seasoned saints have been through it and they may not have been able to label it as depression, but if they have conversations and they talk about it, they may realize, you know what, that actually was depression that I was dealing with, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

So I think that's the big problem too. We had the conversation before, like the older generation, you know, they had their certain ways, but they're stuck in their ways sometimes. So for a person stuck in their ways as an older person, what's like a technique or a conversation started stuck in my way kind of situation?

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Um, so I think when it comes to that, right, we have to first understand that change is inevitable. Change is gonna happen, you know, in life. It's it I mean, it's one of those things in life that we just can't avoid. Change is gonna happen. And I think we have to first debunk that change is a bad thing. Change is not always a bad thing. Sometimes you may need change. Sometimes change will put you on a whole different pathway that's much more prosperous than you actually ever thought. So I think we have to talk about change, not in a bad way, but the positive impact of change. And I think that may kind of target that a little bit. About, I think we do say like the season saints are stuck in their ways. Sometimes I just think that's what they're comfortable with. I think it's more so that you know we we get comfortable and not just this, but I'm saying in general, we can just get comfortable and with how things are, but we just have to be open to it. So how I approach those situations, I I talk about change as being the positive impact of change. And it's it's a grab it's a gradual thing. It's not gonna happen overnight, it will take some time, but you know, change can produce positive results. We just have to be open-minded and willing to go see if something, a suggestion is made, if it actually works. Because you won't know until you try. Right, right, right. But sometimes we don't try. But if we try, we can see if it works. And if it doesn't work, then okay, it doesn't work. But I don't think we should be stuck in our ways or, you know, set on one thing. I think change is good, it can produce positive results. And I really think, especially in the church setting, we have to adapt to today's time. And I think we have to remember that what worked back then isn't gonna work now. Because society looks different, the world looks different. There are a lot of things that we have in the world now. I mean, they say nothing's new under the sun, yeah, but I mean I think there's some things that you know they didn't really wasn't a thing for them that may be a thing for us. So we have to realize that too, that we may have to update and update our practices and how we do things and how we go about ministry to reflect today's culture and today's society. And I think when we talk about culture, churches need to have a conversation about that. About, you know, just what what does the world look like today? And how can we as the church today have something that can impact today's culture in a big way? You we can't do what we used to do and think it's gonna work for where we are now. It just won't. And if you're doing the same thing you were doing in the pandemic now, it's not gonna work either. Because the pandemic should have really forced everybody to say, we gotta do things differently now. I mean, it should have, because we had to do things differently. I never had pastored through a pandemic. I've never I was 20, 20, I'll be 29 in a few days. And I had never been through a pandemic. I was like 24, 25. I had never been through a pandemic, so I didn't know what a pandemic necessarily was and you know what to do, how to lead people through a pandemic. But I was forced to do different things and to do new things to bring my church together and to make sure that they still felt a part of a community. So, you know, we just have to realize that we gotta update, we have to refresh. It's it's good to do that. That's like, for example, and I get this because I'm an Apple person. Don't Apple get us a new iPhone every year? They're adding new things to it every year because things are shifting. Technology continues to shift. Teslas, when I was two years old, nobody was driving an electric car. At least I don't think it was. But you see, but now a lot of people are shifting to electric cars. I personally want a Tesla. I do because I'm thinking about the benefits of it. But that's why they created it because they were updating and refreshing to meet the needs of now. So we have to do that. So I'll say for some of it could be some seasoned saints who are watching this. I love the seasoned saints. I think the wisdom of the seasoned saints we need. But we have to remember that we can update it and we can refresh it to make it better. And it doesn't mean that we're taking away from what it was. We just want to make it a little bit better so that we can bring it to where we are now. Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

Right. So, in closing with the topic we're talking about, what would your advice be to anyone who might be struggling or conflicted with whatever their faith is and their mental health?

SPEAKER_00 37:25

I think the first thing is you're not alone. I think that's important to remember. We go through struggles, sometimes we feel like we are alone and with ourselves, but we aren't alone because God is with us. You know, sometimes it seems like God is far away, but he's not far away. He's always there. So, number one, I would tell you, you are not alone in it. Number two, don't be afraid to talk about it. And it's like I said earlier, if you get hurt, you know, you gotta take that band aid off at some point in order for it to heal. So don't be afraid to talk about it. But also know who you can talk to about it, whether it's a friend or family. You should always have at least one person that you can go to to talk about something. You know, if you can't go to your friends about what you're going through, you don't need to have them as your friends. And that's just real talk. Like you should be able to go without judgment. Because for me, I'm big on friends, right? I don't just have friends. My friends are my family. They are like my brothers and my sisters. Their parents are my parents, their aunts and uncles are my aunts and uncles. You you should have that sense of community and friends who you can really go to. So I would say that as well. Make sure you know you're surrounded by people that you can be real with and that you can be honest with. And then number four, know that there are resources out there that you can utilize. You could just Google therapists in your state, and you can find a therapist that will be able to, you can set up a 30-minute consultation with. Trust me, I've been through therapy. Let me say that as a pastor, it's okay to have a therapist. I've been through therapy several times in my life for several different reasons because I was in several different seasons. So that's important as well. But, you know, just knowing that the resources out there, you can find anything on Google. Yeah, we got all these resources and technology, AI, and all of this stuff that's taking over. So we'd be on Twitter looking at everything else. Why not look for a therapist or somebody that you can, you know, talk to and that you can go to. So also know that there are resources out there. There are therapists out there, there are counselors out there that you can find that will be able to help you. And also, let me say this when it comes to therapists. You may find a therapist that's not a good fit for you. Just because you have a consultation with them, it doesn't mean that they may be the therapist that you need to go with. But when it comes to therapists, you want somebody that you can be, you know, you just you just don't feel obligated just because you had a consultation that you automatically have to go with them because you want to ensure that your needs are met. So, you know, I think in that initial consultation, you typically may know yeah or no, but you know, no, hey, maybe I'll do a consultation with somebody else, and they may be a better fit for me. Because you want to, you don't just want to find a therapist, you want to find the right therapist that can help you.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

It took me three times before I found the one for me.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

See, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

It's a test run, you gotta fill them out, you gotta feel like who you can be completely comfortable with. When I started, I was in middle school, and my biggest thing was I don't feel comfortable talking to a stranger about what I'm going through. So it took me a couple of people to figure out who I was good enough with to open myself fully to actually get help.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah, and that's real, and that's real. And also, sometimes we try to make our therapists our friends, and that's not their job. Their job is not to be our friend, their job is to provide us with the necessary resources, counseling, and services to help us overcome whatever we're struggling or whatever we're dealing with. So we have to remember that as well. You're not finding a therapist to be your your girlfriend or you know, finding to be your homie. You're finding a therapist so that you can heal.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

That's a while you're here. Too many times you have a pastor on your podcast. So I want to pitch on the spotlight. You know, I want you to look in the camera when you have questions too. So talking to your congregation and stuff like that, talking to some anybody random, does prayer work? For mental health? Yes, in general.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

In general? Oh, that oh, I can stay up with this on time. Prayer does work. I'm gonna tell y'all, prayer does work. How do I know it's work? Because I'm here today. That's how I know it works. I had praying parents, I had praying grandparents and other people that were praying for me. I know that that those prayers are why I'm still here today, and that's getting me through. Or even even my personal walk with the Lord, prayer works because college, I was the struggle was real. I'm telling you, so prayer does work. We serve a God who is alive, he's not dead. So that's how I know prayer works because God is living, you know, he's active. So it definitely works. I just say try, man. You'll see, but it does work. God is a prayer-answering God. I've seen the hand of God do so many things for others as well as as myself, and just really just kind of all of the things that I've been through in my life. I'm telling you, prayer is the reason why I'm still here and and while I've made it. It is prayer, and it's because I know that God is sitting high and he's looking low and he's hearing my prayers. And sometimes we go through those seasons where we do feel like God is silent and is not doing anything. But what I always say to that is, is if we go through seasons where we feel like God is silent or he's not doing anything, maybe that means we need to be doing something. Because faith without works is dead. A lot of times we we're waiting on God to answer the prayer, but it may be something that we need to do. We may need to step out in faith, we may need to make a move. You know, so I mean, there's so many layers and so many components to it, but prayer does work. God is a prayer-answering guy. And also, I I say this when it comes to prayer. You don't have to, you know, sometimes we in church we make prayer, you gotta bow and do all of this and Lord, and you know, you gotta do you don't have to do all of that. You can just be simple in your prayers to God. For me, I keep it 100 with God. I mean, you just have to, and God already knows anyway, so you ain't really you can't hide anything from it. Just be real, be open and honest, and also understand when it comes to prayer, yes, it does work, but you don't have to use fancy words, you know, you don't have to pray a certain way. You can just be real and you can say, God, man, all right, you know, and I mean just be real, be open and be honest. And I think we just have to remember we gotta just have faith. It's just so important. That's the key to our prayers being answered too, is also having faith enough to believe that what I'm praying for, God can do. And that He, you know, He has power enough to do it. Sometimes when our prayers are not being answered, it's because our faith is we don't have our faith where it should be. So get your faith up. Hey, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

I love it. You know, still no spotlight. Okay. So You 28 going on, 29, right? Yes. Yes. So as a pastor in his 20s, late 20s, how has the evolution of a pastor changed throughout the years? You being 20 millennials, you know, social media, Zoom, YouTube churches, stuff like that. So what how has the elev evolution of a pastor changed for you?

SPEAKER_00 44:20

For me, I think the biggest change happened during the pandemic. My church I was pastoring then, we weren't on Facebook, and I mean that was 2018. Like, well, that's when I went there. So it was a couple of years. It's 2021, 20, whenever the pandemic came. I can't remember which year, but we weren't on live, we weren't doing all of that. We had to adapt and we had to get Zoom and all of those different things. I mean, we y'all we were doing Zoom. You know, we had Zoom meetings, but Zoom really went to another level during the pandemic because most of all of us was Zooming. That's how we talked to each other. We had Zoom Thanksgiving, Zoom Christmas, Zoom Revival, Zoom Sunday service, Zoom Bible study. We were just Zooming everything. So I think it just has changed in which you and you've mentioned some of the several reasons. Uh I would say the pandemic, but social media just has increased. And now it's on a whole nother level than what it was. You know, back in the day it was just my space. And then now we got Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat. I mean, we got all of these other platforms. We got Twitter or X, but I still call it Twitter. But we got all of these different platforms that were not had before. So I think social media and technology has allowed pastoring to evolve. Because even now we you have appointed pastors who are just responsible for the online portion of their ministry. So I mean it's just changed. You back in the day it used to be you just pastor. Now you got pastors for different stuff. You got social media pastors, you got worship pastors. I mean, you it has evolved, but it's just because times have changed, things have changed, the world has changed, society has changed. So it just it's updated. Now, for me as a pastor, like I said, the pandemic is what really evolved the role for me. But I think there are various things over the years that I've mentioned that has really, you know, allowed the the role of pastor to to shift beyond just what it used to be back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Yeah. Back in the day, you know, you catch the Holy Ghost, you know, you get the talking in tongues. Does the word have the same effect come from through the camera? Can you get the same feeling of being in church through the camera? You know what?

SPEAKER_00 46:25

That's a good question. And I'm I'm gonna tell you this. You can be home watching it, but it's nothing like being actually there to actually experience it. I mean the anointing man, you can feel the anointing to the phone. You can be listening to a song, listening to a service, and yeah, you can feel it. But it's nothing like actually being there. And think about it. I like being to church with the saints. I like seeing the saints shout. I like seeing the saints. And I'm a I'll shout a dance in a heartbeat, but it's nothing like because church, church is not designed for us to just come in and just sing and take up money. And church is designed to be a community. So, you know, I think you can watch it online, but there's a sense of community that comes with being among each other and being on the same. Yeah, you can get you can watch it and you can receive something. But I think you should be at church. And I'd say, and listen, y'all, I say it this way: you may not go to church every Sunday, but start off going one Sunday a month. If this you, well, I can get what I need online. Just go one Sunday, and I promise you, I think you'll have a different experience when you're there in person versus online. You can watch online is good, but you can give God at least one Sunday night. Yeah, because I mean we do we do what they say you we do whatever we want to do. We go to work, we get up and we go to work, so why don't we get up and go to church? And some of us get up and go to work. We don't like nobody at work. We got an attitude while we did it. We don't like what we do, we just go in because we get a paycheck. But why not go to church where you can receive something from God, where you can have a sense of community, where you can be around the seasoned saints who give you wisdom, but around your the young adults like yourself, where you can be creative and intentional in your way of worshiping God. So get to church. Y'all get up and come to church. And also one thing too, and you know, back in the day, church used to be early. You know, I mean, some should have eight o'clock service. Now I'm not an eight o'clock a.m. pastor.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

Oh no, ten o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

Praise the Lord. We have service at 10:30. I'm not an 8 a.m. pastor. Now, if I need to, I will, but I like 10:30. And then you can still go to brunch. You can we be out by 12, and you can still make it to brunch, right? After service. So, and then also, y'all, I know church people who go early, they still make it to brunch, but then there are some churches, y'all, they have late night services, 5 o'clock and 6 o'clock, where you slept in, you've had brunch, and then it's church time. So, I mean, it's it's different ways to approach it.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

And more on that other point, do you feel like the evolution of social media has more of a positive or negative effect on church attendance and this church in general?

SPEAKER_00 49:10

That's really good because I mean we see this often on social media. Sometimes when things are recorded in church, sensitive, sacred moments are publicized on social media, and then we see one clip and we just take it to the left and take it to the extreme. I think social media is good because social media can also be a digital discipleship tool. You can reach people on social media. For example, I look at the stats for my church. We reach people in Africa, Nigeria, and different places. You can reach people through social media that you actually may not be able to put your hands on physically, that doesn't live locally. So I think it does help us in that regard to reach people that we may not encounter that are local to us. But I also think social media can work against us as a church. You have pastors, we and religious leaders, we have to be intentional about what is streamed and what is not streamed. I think if we are cognizant of that and intentional, there are some sacred moments we just need to cut the camera off. You know, cut the live stream off. Because people who don't look with their spiritual eyes, they're not going to be able to see that as a spiritual, sacred moment. They're gonna see it as this that looks crazy. So we have to also remember that being that social media can help us, but if we're not intentional and strategic about what we put out there, it can also harm us and hurt us as well. So we just have to be aware of that. A sacred moment shouldn't be, you know, somebody's getting their deliverance, turn the camera off. Like just turn it off because it's a sacred moment. We just preaching, we the word, people need to hear the word, have the word on there. You like good singing. Y'all know we black church, we love good singing. I pastor in South Carolina, and baby singing is what they love. They love singing and preaching. They love hymn choirs. I don't know if people watching that, they might not know about that. But that's a thing down here. We in the country in South Carolina. Hymn choirs are big. People love that. So put that on there. But if it's a sacred moment, cut it off. But I do think social media can help us. I don't think it's a bad thing. I love being on social media. Follow us by the way, Liberty Hill AM Zion. Look us up on Facebook. You can know what's going on with our church. We got Instagram as well, Liberty Hill AMZ. Look us up, follow us at us on social media. But yeah, I think it's it can really um can have some great benefits. And some churches don't like it. Some churches don't have it. They still don't, even at the pandemic, they don't have it. But I mean, I'm not gonna shame them, but I think it's a good tool to have, and you can reach people. Okay, because we as young adults and so forth, we're the ones who are not really going to church like we used to go to church. The season saints, they they still coming. But us, we know we we're the ones that say, ooh, I can sleep in just pawning, or I could just watch. You know, we have those internet pastors. I don't know if y'all have internet pastors, but I have an internet pastor. It's Archbishop William Hudson, the powerhouse of Chicago. Like, that's my internet pastor. And some people do have, you know, just there. They may have a church that they went to, you know, but they have just services that you've just watched. And some people like Todd out of Transformation Church, Pastor Mike Todd. You know, some people like him, and yeah, Bishop TD Jakes, you know, the living legend. Like some people like him, but they're on social media. You have to be strategic because even Mike Todd knows he's done some things that have been very controversial lately that if he maybe would have turned the live stream off, he may not have gotten through some controversy. And it's nothing on him. You just have to know what to post and what not to post on there. Because if I see somebody putting spit in their hands and covering somebody's eyes, I'm be looking at you crazy. Although it's a demonstration, but I wouldn't do that. But y'all know Pastor did it.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

But I wouldn't do it. Right. And you uh you mentioned something about having sacred moments socialized. So I don't I don't want to call it a trend, but let's just call it a trend for now. People being baptized, they feminine posting on their stories and whatever. And they get baptized, just get baptized, just say to get baptized for the for the social media to get the follows, yeah, stuff like that. So, what's your view on that for people just doing it just to do it, to follow the trend?

SPEAKER_00 53:10

Yeah, so don't get baptized just to get baptized. The symbolism behind baptism is to show an outward expression of what has happened inwardly in your life. That's a demonstration to show people, you know, that I'm living for Christ and so forth like that. So don't get baptized to put it on social media. You could put other stuff on social media, but don't do it for likes and stuff like that. Really, though, that's a sacred thing. And that's something that we should take seriously, and we shouldn't take lightly granted. Don't do that for likes. Make a make a reel or something for likes. That is a sacred moment. And I just feel like we just have to be careful about those kinds of things. Um, and but I think it's good if you are doing it for the right reason, definitely put it out there so people can see, you know, and know what has happened in your life. I think that's a great thing. God has changed them and moved in their life, so if he did it for them, he can do it for me. So I also think that's a a discipleship tool as well, because if we are a disciple or if we're going through the process of discipleship, we should want to bring more people in as disciples and to make disciples. So I think also in putting on social media, if you're doing it for the right reason, it's a great way to to disciple and bring other people, you know, um to a new place and that walk with God.

SPEAKER_03 54:26

Any more closing remarks before we wrap up today's video?

SPEAKER_01 54:30

I should do I do got one question for you. Okay. Well, going back to mental health felt like that. What is your go-to hymn or scripture for people dealing with mental health? Like what's your go-to?

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Oh, that's a good I think it just depends because there's different scriptures for different things. I think if you are feeling anxiousness, there's a scripture in Philippians that says, be anxious for nothing. So it talks about that. I mean, there's just various scriptures, man. It just I think it's just kind of situational depending upon what you're going through. But there's a scripture for it that you can find if you're struggling, if you're battling. Cast all your anxieties on him because he cares for you. If you're struggling with that, that's telling us to give it to him. Right. You know, because he can handle it. And it's because he cares for us. So I think it's just situational depends upon what the situation is or whatever you're, you know, facing at that time. There are some scriptures for that we can find in the Word of God. Can you recite one for us? Just the ones that I mentioned. Um, there's one, God is our refuge and strength, very present help in time of trouble. That's one that I lean on. I'm going through some hard times and facing some situations, knowing he's my refuge and he's my safe place that I can go to and I can talk to him about what I'm feeling and what I'm experiencing. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Okay. I like that. Well, before we go, give me your your handles, your social media, you know, email address for your church, for yourself. You know, let people know who you are, you know, how you can reach you or reach your church.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

Yeah. Good deal, good deal. So for our social media for our church, again, look us up on Facebook, uh, like our page, Liberty Hill Amy Zion. And it's where we uh stream our services on Sunday. All information about our church is there, including like different things that we have going on at our church, different events. We do like community cookouts. We had an adult prom recently, so we try to do some different things to reach just different people, meet people where they are. We're on Instagram as well. Liberty Hill A M E Z is our Instagram. I think that's right. I'd be you know, be forgetting, but I think that's right. But yeah, so definitely hit us up, reach out to us, you know, come see us, come check us out. Yeah, it's Liberty Hill AMEZ. Um, we have services on Sundays at 10 30 a.m. and you'll still be able to get the brunch if you come at 10 30. You'll still make it. But we're in Lake Wiley, South Carolina, which is not too far from Charlotte. It just depends upon where you stay at. I used to stay on the east side of Charlotte on Central Avenue. That's where I used to stay. It was like 40 minutes, but now I stay in Gastonian. It's about 20 minutes. So it just depends on what side of town that you are on. But we have services at 1030, and then we have Bible studies on Zoom on Wednesdays at 7 p.m. So check us out, follow us, come be a part of our church, be a part of our community. We would love to have you. We would love to see you um on Sundays. All right now.

SPEAKER_03 57:18

Well, that is a wrap for this episode. Thank you so much, Pastor, for joining us. No problem.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Thank you all for having me.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Giving us your insight and expertise on the topic. Um, to all of our listeners, we just want to let's remind you that it's okay to seek help. It's okay to not be okay. But there are several resources you can reach out, look up to, you know, better your mental health journey.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

And you have a new one right here. Oh, yeah, y'all. Definitely, definitely, definitely. And I got some resources I can direct YouTube too as well. But thank y'all for having me for real. Like my first time, but thank y'all so much for coming back. Yeah, I would love to come back. More for the last one.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

So be sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, our Facebook page. Be sure to like and subscribe with us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, whatever your podcasting hub is, and we will see y'all next week.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Yay, yay.