Beyond the Mind: Taoist Alchemy, Effortless Action and the True Self with San Qing

What remains when the identity, beliefs, thoughts, and patterns you have mistaken for yourself begin to fall away?

In this expansive episode of Awakening Conversations, Natalie is joined by Taoist Master San Qing for a profound exploration of the true self, Taoist Internal Alchemy, effortless action, embodiment, healing, and the limitless nature of consciousness.

San Qing shares how several near-death experiences during childhood transformed his understanding of reality and how, at the age of 18, he first began channeling Lao Tzu. He explains how Taoism guides us beyond the thinking mind and back into an embodied remembrance of wholeness, love, and unity.

Together, Natalie and San Qing explore what happens after the identity dissolves, why awakening can sometimes lead to emptiness or confusion, and how we can embrace our humanity without losing our connection to the absolute.

They also discuss psychic abilities, energetic transmission, extraordinary healing experiences, the role of the body in spiritual awakening, and why powers such as channeling, clairvoyance, and telekinesis are ultimately only side effects of meeting who we truly are.

In this conversation:

• What Taoism reveals about the true self
• San Qing’s childhood near-death experiences
• His first transmission from Lao Tzu
• Why thoughts and emotions are not our identity
• The meaning of Wu Wei, or effortless action
• What happens after the personality begins to dissolve
• Why the body is a portal rather than an obstacle
• Spiritual awakening, embodiment, and the fear of death
• Psychic abilities as side effects of self-realization
• Acceptance, surrender, and releasing resistance
• Extraordinary stories of healing and energetic transmission
• How to remain human while remembering the absolute

San Qing reminds us that awakening is not about escaping the human experience. It is about meeting life so completely that separation begins to disappear.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Before we dive into another expansive conversation, I just want to thank you. Because you like, follow, and subscribe and comment and add all your beautiful love and your light into this community. Other people are now starting to receive awakening conversations. They are receiving this message into their inbox. So thank you. And this podcast is now available on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Audible, and all the other spaces and places where podcasts are. So thank you for bringing your light into this community so that it can reach others that need to hear this message. Namaste, beautiful souls. I feel really blessed and in huge presence because I'm here with Taoist Master Sun Queen, who has spent more than three decades guiding others. And you're an ordained Taoist priest and 66th generation of the Zongqi sect and 126th generation holder of the three pure ones, Taoism, and also a master of Qigong and Nigong. And I've heard that those that spend time with you, they they often say that it's like the atmosphere is infused with peace, with light. So I've been excited all week that we could be in this peace and light together and and just flow. So thank you for being here with me. Because the love's already always been here. But we've been so consumed with the thinking mind, this like small part of consciousness we've been attached and identified with, and it's so wonderful that we're breaking away from it and like having this expansion. I really would love for you, because I know some people in my community might not know what um Taoism is. And so if you could start there, and also you're very welcome to share about your own journey. I'd love to know.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Yeah, yeah. It's um well, Taoism is just a uh uh I like to refer to people as not a requirement, but a rite of passage. And you when you realize that this is all one big melding part of jambalaya, and you find that these two streams, yin and yang, they're polar opposites, and they converge and touch each other once in a while, but you're being mesmerized by this what would seem like a separation, Taoism brings you to that unity, and then you recognize that dualism, non-dualism, centric, non-centric status, you converge with what is the natural order and selection of everything, and you recognize that that absolute stream is who you really are, which then, of course, the the title of Taoism falls by the wayside, and you recognize everything is complete, everything is whole, and that absolute love and that universal state that compels you to just surrender is the really really the place you need to be, which is servitude and selflessness, which is sort of uh acquiring the superpower of a human being, the empathy, which very few people get to meet themselves at that level. So Taoism is a self-exploration. You kind of start with a spark of desire, and that desire is divinity, and divinity uh ushers in inquiry, and inquiry then turns into contemplation. Contemplation is really where curiosity starts, and you you you basically flame or fuel the flames of hopium, which is a part of the human condition that gives rise to opportunity, what can potentially be, which grows into belief, and then there's the crossroad. That belief system can either be whole or halved or dissected or fully consumed, and then you meet information and knowledge, and all of a sudden you have wisdom, and there's a sort of a path that we all go on. I believe everyone has their own version of this type of rate of passage, but Taoism sort of lays it out with a more intimate alchemical process where you get to really feel into the body and remove the the psyche so that it's all somatic, visceral, kinesthetic. It's speaking the language of the universe which is from the heart. So hopefully that answered that I might have yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yes, and that's amazing because like in my own journey, I um I've I've been going through this um living from awareness, and so in in the state of awareness, recognizing like patterns and conditioning and and not feeding it awareness, like and it just like falls away, falls away. And then I I went to Vipassana to do that deep 10-day meditation, and I experienced this falling away of all the beliefs, and and actually prior to the vipassana, I was going through this experience of like why am I still holding on to the good beliefs? I need to get rid of all beliefs, and so I I actually got rid of all beliefs um and got to a space of like in the vipassana, then I got to a space of emptiness, and then from that emptiness arose this deep wisdom that's always been here, um, but is so like felt in the body. So I I feel like I really understand, and um so I would love to know like, were you born into Taoism? Um, how how's your journey been? And um like have you had like the human experience where um there's a contraction and um you in the polarity of it, and then um we sometimes lose consciousness and we we get caught up in the humanness, or have you been able to like make maintain the consistency of awareness and how's the journey been for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Oh, what a fantastic way! I mean it it ushers in this whole stewardess. You are a student, you are a steward to the goodwill of what comes out of a coherent, humane stream of consciousness. That human beings are always looking for a way to manipulate this narrative, to manipulate the story. And so for me, I went through two or three near-death experiences as a child. I was hit by a car, I was dead for 45 minutes, and then I rose from the depths of no return, uh, like Frankenstein in uh the hospital, and that was a head-on. So that was one of the big epiphanies. I realized that the my obsession with superheroes and Peter Pan and Superman was real because once I rose up out of the body, I was flying around performing all these super tricks, watching my mother mourn my death in the ambulances. I'm just like witnessing a still dead body that just looks exactly like me. And my mother's mourning and crying over this death. And for 45 minutes, I was flying around, you know, doing cartwheels and blowing up the universes and shooting out into another multiverse and having all these experiences, and then coming right back down to what seemed to be grounding. And so that was the first phenomenon that was when I was eight. And then I had two other near-death experiences that were similar, that were a little bit more dramatic in the sense that was I was consciously aware. I didn't, I wasn't hit um out of the blue by a car. I was face to face with something a little bit more sinister, where human beings have always ill will as their nature because they don't want to accept themselves. So accepting themselves requires this compassion and this empathy, and many people struggle with that over their lifetime. So they get into an autocorrect, as my eldest son would say, where you correct the circumstance by avoidance and obfuscating these internalized thoughts, feelings, and emotions that are so transitory, they're so impermanent, they're like a crescendo of a firework, it pops off and then it collapses in on itself. And that old expression just everything with time will pass. And as you're subject to time and space in this distorted material world, you're gonna go through these things. So by the time I was 17, I had pursued powerlifting and bodybuilding as a young boy, and I was obsessed with that because I wanted to look like He-Man. It was like very important. I had to like get that image, and I had to craft it, I had to forge it into reality. And then I had a basically uh meeting of the minds with Latsu, my teacher to this day, where I channeled him for the first time when I was 18. And that was pretty much epic. That was transformative. It was like, you know, imagine being put in a pressure cooker times that by 100. And I'm sitting in a sauna emanating frequencies from what would seem like another world. And I've got people sitting around me with their sticks and marshmallows cooking their favorite barbecued, whatever, because the transmission is so high. Every time I channel that density upgrades the biology. So the nervous system acquires and consumes that with the stress adaptation expansion, you become that. Now heaven on earth exists at that resonance, and you're able to hold it, right? So you can hold that stuff. So that led me into a week of complete insanity where you know I witnessed uh gangrest flesh go back to pink in color in 45 minutes. A woman's foot should have been amputated. I uh uh I started reading people's auras at a ridiculous level of awareness. Um, all these synchronicities, and then I hit this wall one week later, where some people will refer to it uh old school OGs. We call it a breaking, right? So the breaking of the Russian doll iteration of self would be self-consuming. It's a cannibalistic fringe benefit of the exogenous stuff that comes in that you recognize is not you. Your thoughts, feelings, and emotions are not part of the true self. They are really not required to find yourself. But you know, most people tend to lament. They like to, it's my party, and I'll cry if I want to. And you can you can play with that and and flail with that and be in those turbulent, twisted moments that are emanating from the body as you discover more about yourself. There's less space for the noise, there's less space for the inconsistencies that come from the human condition. And so you bring your show to your Watson, elementary, my dear Watson. You find that the human condition, there's a labyrinth of the finite mind. You you move through that finite mind, you exit the labyrinth with human beingness. You are wholesome, you are universal, you're absolute, that love. That charge you and I are getting right now is an aha right right here, right now. It's visceral, it's somatic, it's kinesthetic. We're aware of something greater that my paracologist friends would refer to as psychokinesis, or something of that nature. This is the truth. Nothing can ever hold a candle to that truth. And everyone finds the absolute truth, even though people are like, that's ridiculous, there's no such thing. Oh, there is. You just have to keep discovering more. And so, through that, that led me into training and becoming ordained. And, you know, in a nutshell, this has been an ongoing journey for close to 40 years, consciously. And it's very exciting. And I love teaching people how to um find themselves. And it's a it's a pressure point because it can be quite jarring when you look in the mirror and you don't like what's looking back at you. This is a this is a moment of of relishing the last time you're ever going to see this, and getting a real taste of what is potential. And the selfishness to the selflessness requires a sacrifice, and that's what people cringe. And that, as you mentioned, that contracting, we refer to that within Taoism as the great bellows. Everything is contracting, expanding at the same time. You are all things and nothing at the same time. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, Ethan Hunt, is to find the center point, walk through it, and then realize there is no center point. And we have arrived, and all the goodness starts coming through, where we refer to this as wu-ji, which is the primordial mother, the absolute holy stream. Connecting with this is what we call wu wei. Effortless action, effortless effort. It's serendipitous, synchronistic. It's like you can't get out of the way of this absolute truth, which is servitude and selflessness. And the default is who you really are. It does not require your participation at all. Hopefully that answered that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

I'm with you. I am with you because I've had direct experience, like I know it. Like what you're speaking is a knowing. And um, there's one thing that I've I've pondered, effortless effort, because what I've noticed for myself was that it it first took great effort to get to to dissolve all these conditions and patterns, but by by no longer feeding awareness to them, and then I got into a space of effortlessness. So why is it effortless effort? Like, can you explain that?

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Well, you you we we measure it on you know bands of resonance. So we start to get very simplistic. We go back to the ancient pillars and fundamentals of the alchemy, that is an internal architecture that that exceeds the biology. And part of the crafting of the the Taoist alchemist through the lifetime is to keep returning to that resonance, where then you actualize what we call shen gong, which is spirit power, and that spirit power is then crystallized, and this is what we call immortality crystallized in the material, where now you have a living, breathing, emanated, holy stream bringing heaven to earth, making everything complete. So the effects of that will come from this conditioning and that process is you are stressing, adapting, and then expanding into a new self. It's like the Russian doll. And so when you hit that resonance, there's literally no, there's no need for you to ever participate again because that fluidity is your default, it precedes any thought that you conjure in your mind, it's irrelevant, and so this is where people gravitate to to highly evolved beings that have cultivated this level of resonance because they can be transmitted in this space, and they're not even having to consciously think about anything, you just merge into the same remembrance of yourself, and then you start emulating that resonance, and all of a sudden, depending upon your biology, depending upon what you've done to condition your physical body, you can hold and maintain this awareness, or you may need a little bit more application of that resonance through a little bit more, what we refer to as the the most sacred of any ancient tool, which is the breath. This is the most sacred thing. When we are conceived and then we are completed and created into this form, the embryotic breath is the most potent. The primordial mother comes from that the first breath that you take bears and creates yang in this existence. You come from the primordial mother, which is absolute, and that first breath, she creates yong. And now we have this little beautiful symbiotic dance between yin and yong that is forever fundamental in your awareness and integrating it into all the things that you do. So through the alchemical process, less of the mind. So um, you know, as Elvis would say, little less conversation, little more action, please. And that is where you find it. It's like there's nothing more powerful because our hearts connect. This is not coming from some, you know, mental gymnastics. We are connecting viscerally right now. It's happening. And we don't have we could talk about anything, and the truth is already shown to us and it's an embodiment, and that's where effortless action comes in. So that means that literally I've had events where I'll give you an example of one. Um I was with my parents and uh went to uh um went to pick up some uh takeout. I ordered some takeout, they were sitting in the back of the car. It was uh uh evening um in a neighborhood, pretty decent neighborhood. I parked the car at the front of the restaurant, I got out, and I said, I'll be right back there sitting in the back of the car. I got out, I went into the restaurant, and the windows were tinted on the car, right? And while I was out, they're sitting there quietly, and next minute they see this guy move around the vehicle, and then he starts trying to open the doors because he can't see them because the windows are tinted. So he's trying to pry the doors open of this car. And like they're petrified, they're horrified by this thing. They're in the middle of a carjacking, they don't even realize it's happening, so they're scared to death. Anyway, he try, he attempts a couple of times every door, can't get the car open. Then he, you know, disappears into the night. I come out of the restaurant, I've got the takeout, open the door, I sit in the car and I put the the the uh takeout down and I go to start the car. I'm like, what's wrong with you guys? And they're like, oh my goodness, I'm so grateful that you locked the door. Someone was trying to break into the car while we were sitting here. I'm like, I never locked the doors. And they're like, What? Didn't you just see me just walk up and open the car? And the keys were already in the ignition. And they're like, oh wow. And this is a part of how potent this moment is. And when you know that wisdom will bear through, and there is nothing that can penetrate it that is less res if it's of a lower resonance, forget about it, it's not gonna happen. And so you see these things where we speak within Taoism about once you tie your knot or close a door, it cannot be open, it cannot be untied, because you have that moment, that fusion, that holy stream that can never be tampered with or distorted or manipulated. And that's what we speak of with effortless action, effortless effort.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

I feel it. That's incredible. Wow, I feel like I've got so many things that I want to ask about this and go. So I'm just gonna feel into it.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

I am absolutely as high as AF right now. I'm dancing on the clouds because it's just so potent. You and I are oscillating, we're just like we're going back and forth bathing, and I can still. Swimming in this stuff. And guess what? We get to do this all day long.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

But don't tell anyone because this would be no exactly why I love to have these conversations, because like this is the truth that I know. Like I know it. And so here we are back in the absolute. But yet we're still human. Like, okay, so this fascinates me. You you you know the absolute, you know it. Um, but you're still human. How is that? Like, how, because so you okay, you know the breaking point where you go through and you like dissolve your identity, you just you you're going to this major breakthrough, that which you were, you're no longer anymore. And then you get to this huge expansion where you are, I mean, you just are full stop. I am. And then you're there. And and when I got to that point, I was like, oh, well, I can't teach Reiki anymore, I can't do anything. Like, I am just this energy, like, and and and and and then they were still further. So then, like, going further, I got to this space of um, so it's like I went out, I went out of being the character of Natalie, completely dissolved into oneness, absolute, and then and then I kind of got stuck. I got stuck, I was like, um, I only this is this is all there is, so there's only oneness. Oneness is the absolute truth, it's the only truth. So then all this other stuff, it's like mind-made, separate yin yang, like um polarity creating waves, which is like a dream. So I'm dreaming myself, but I'm I'm not Natalie anymore. So then I came back. And it took a while to to like land back and allow myself, like I remember crying a lot. Like, I don't know, like, do I follow my heart desire or do I need to just stay in the oneness because I shouldn't be involving myself in humanity? And I really would like you to talk into this because I know this is such a hard stage of confusion for anyone that's like truly going through this.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

And that's the disconnect to then reconnect. So there's like a a you know, comfortably numb moment where you're the needle just doesn't move for anything, it's kind of a weird thing as you have just disbanded any any reflection or identification of self, and you're now merging with this iteration that is whole, and then there's a lackluster moment where it's like, hang on a second, where now what? Now it's like, okay, I was really high on this when I was personified as identity, but as just the fabric of everything, it seems to be kind of almost dull and numb, numbing to a point where I can't really now what do I fixate on? I'm just I'm just empty, I'm nothing. I'm nobody, no place, no thing. It just is. And it and it it it's in some ways it becomes discouraging because you're going to go through this phase where but wait, there's more. And we refer to that within Taoism as first you will love the Tao, then you will despise the Tao, then you will fear the Tao. And then you go back to the love. And you're like, oh, I'm not, I don't have a personality disorder, I'm doing just fine. I'm I'm completely embracing all of this. It's so amazing. And you go through this car wash until you recognize all thoughts, feelings, and emotions are transitory and permanent. Their lies that your personality is given to you. Don't break it, don't discard it. It's there for you to enrich and enjoy yourself. The old expression, you can have your cake and eat it, is absolute. It's an absolute. This is the part where people can't, they can't figure it out, you know. And the closest thing I ever came to, well, more most recently is um, I'm using this as reflecting on this as an example, but my my younger son died in my wife's arms for you know two and a half minutes. He was gone. And so my other five children gathered around, was in a car setting. She she was holding him, she was mourning his death. I was just, I stay in the the state of detachment because I am now cultivating the space. It's nothing real, there's nothing to talk about. I think it and it becomes realized because the animation of the primordial mother is now, and so my children are in a a sacred circle, and they're they are chanting specific rituals that I've taught them. I watch his spirit leave his body, and you watch the life just exit the flesh, and he's floating over her and me. And then there's a moment where I'm asking him to come back, and my children are are chanting, adoring, loving, abundant, endless, limitless, infinite connection. And he took him at least almost two minutes, and then finally you watched him draw himself back into his body, and then the second he connected, it was as if someone gave him an adrenaline shot and he came up like Frankenstein. And um, these are moments where people would look at me and go, You're just a heartless POS. I mean, you didn't even, you didn't even, there was no bump, there was nothing. Because at the wet ass hour, to to be all, to be everything and nothing, requires no participation of yourself. And so that then gives you the ability to be that catalyst, that gateway, that portal to return whole holy everything that is distorted. And this is where miracles take place. This is where you find these incredible examples of what people would say is superhuman, supernatural, supernormal. And so this is part of the experience, is like recognizing that to detach and then attach, you find that then all of a sudden the operating system has access to a grain of sand or the cosmos because you are now completely connected. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Yes. So so you detach. Um how how do you teach people to detach from the identity that they've been attached to?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Well, that's fantastic because most of the critters and the clingers, the stage five clingers, they hang on to the body because we've created a relationship that is so intimate that this body is actually ours, as if we're we're having to nurture it. Or we, you know, I refer to myself as the ambassador and concierge to your goodwill. And that really is uh is helping direct the attention and intention and realizing that the body-centric aspect is where you take on ownership when in actuality, when when that the truth comes out, it was never yours to begin with. So then all of a sudden, your ability to heal others it then pertains to the actual body that you believe is your own flesh. So all of a sudden, how do you detach? It's what we refer to as a conditioning process within Taoism, where we use the ancient respiration to compress and transmute the energy at a biological level right down to what someone would consider a grain of sand. This compression makes space for your true self, and anything that is is dormant or shadowed in any way, shape, or form will show itself. You have no place to hide. And so most people want to do the mental gymnastics and attempt to go, I am the cosmos, I am Brahmin, I am all these things. And I've uh I've had dozens of students that have spent 20 years transmitting and healing people at that level, and then all of a sudden the hubcaps come off the wheels, the machine starts breaking down, you get a flat tire, the engine needs oil, and all of these things are um are happening because the deconstruction of their biology is they bypassed what was necessary. There was no, there wasn't a process of ownership and then surrendering that ownership. It was just a peripheral thing that was going on where they were kind of like not aware that they were really fixated on their body. And then they let go of that and go, Well, I need to be up here. I am all higher consciousness, I am ascended. I don't want to stay with the earthing or grounding rod of the body that makes it possible to register all this. There is no way. So when you detach the compressing and the hydraulic process between upper, middle, and lower Dantian is where we start to move all the energy, and you're not thinking. If you're thinking, you're not knowing if you're knowing your feeling. And so then the feeling supersedes anything, you're not having to intellectualize anything, and then the personality is there for you to put that cap on today, and tomorrow you're not going to. But it's like that soberness every moment where you can go, well, this is not real. But I just had a thought, I just had a feeling, I just had an emotion. Okay, that's great. But anyway, moving right along. And and people can't ever accept that. And so they get there and they're like, Well, I want to detach. I'm going, I'm, I'm going to surrender, I'm going to take the clothes off my back. And within Taoism, we'll refer to this as virtue signaling. When you, when you when you confess you are virtuous, you have none. It's just part of the whole, it's the part of the whole dance of that symbiosis between yin and yang. You're still playing with the putty and you're bouncing the juggling the balls back and forth. You don't realize that that's one. And then the Russian doll is where you break one iteration into another, into another, and you recognize I'm the grain of sand, I'm the universe, I'm Natalie, I'm Sun Ching, I'm one, I'm all. And the biggest disruptor is when you finally surrender and you find that compassion for someone else that completely drives you nuts. When you feel like you look at that person, it's like, I'm rather irritated. Like I think I could actually be angry because of this person's presence. Yet there's no logic to it. There's no, there's no need to think there, there's got nothing to do. Their resonance is triggering that internalized thing that you've decided, I'm gonna leave that for a rainy day. I don't really need that. And of course, you keep going over the same thing until you break the mold and you throw it back in the wood chipper, and then everything is blended. So through the compression process, when you least expect it, I mean, I had a student just recently, he was here at the temple, and I have an extensive gym. So I took him out to the gym because I said, Oh, enough, enough of the potificating, it's over. And he's like, What are you talking about, C Food? I'm like, we're about to exume whatever it is that you want to just hold on to. Well, I'm not holding on to anything, I'm completely released. I'm like, okay, we're gonna do four exercises, not groundbreaking stuff, very simple, a leg extension, hack squat, uh uh, a shoulder press, a pullover. They could mean something or nothing to the audience. There were four exercises that were exhausting at their own merit, not to the weight, but the way that I manipulated the flesh by using that hydraulic system to conjure and to evoke the rising of the internalized stuff that people want the mind to control. I got that, I got that, man, I got that, I got that. And so the body will tell you absolutely the truth without you trying to justify it. And then, of course, after he finished the last exercise, he was like, Oh my goodness, I I think I'm gonna throw up. And then he started to throw up, and then he spent two hours begging for his mommy to hold him. And he goes, Where is all this stuff coming from? I haven't talked to my mother in 20 years, I just want to hear her tell me I love she loves me because it all comes out of the truth teller, it all comes out, and then you can resolve end that famous last word, forgive yourself, and then it's the dawn of a new day. And as uh one of my favorite bands from the 90s, they had a song called Um, I think it's a lie, it was called Alive. Every day is a new day. I'm grateful for every breath I take. I don't take it for granted. So any 90s nuts that want to watch uh pod, I don't know whether you ever heard of that, but it was a band from the 90s, and but they were a Christian band, and you know, they were really into the rock, and they they had a good message. In any case, perhaps I answered that question. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yes, and there's so much more. Okay, so so then, all right. So the best way is that I I understand it through my own experience, and then we we keep going like this. So then I okay, so I got to this place where where every thought that was coming in, I was so conscious and aware, I was like, well, that's a lie, because it's thought, and thought isn't truth. The only truth is the absolute. Absolute is the only thing I can know about the absolute is that I don't know it. My mind can never know it. Um, so I was like, okay, so so but I can I can I can sense it in my body. I was like, my body, this is the only thing my body, my body knows. So then I'm going through this, and um, and so then I make I don't believe anything I think. Um, and then so then I'm like super empty and I'm not naturally, but but feeling a little bit like the mind keeps on wanting to come in and like contract and understand itself, but I'm just not giving it room. And then eventually I got to this realization that I am this absolute, this like energy that that is being experienced that I can't put a name on, because the moment I put a name on it, I'm back in the mind. So so so so I realized that, and then and then I got to a point like, am I allowed to still be human and have this experience, or should I just like what Buddha did, just like go be enlightened and then and then but then he came back. I was like, but he came back and he taught people so I can come back. So then I got to this point where I was able to understand and hold both sides of it. I was able to understand that I am the absolute consciousness, I am that, and I am experiencing myself as Natalie. So Natalie is a mind-made dream, it's a concept that's being experienced, but it's not the truth. And so so then I came back and I was so free. And so all of a sudden I was like, well, I can believe whatever I want to believe because it's not even it's not, I don't even know how to explain it, but I hope I'm making sense of something that is so deep and profound. So then this other part is like when people are detaching, because there's two things you're detaching from. From one level, you've got to detach from the body so that you you dissolve the biggest fear that we all carry, which is the fear of death or getting hurt, or like, or like, or fear of the unknown, those are the big ones that the body like holds. So when we when we detach from the body, those disappear, and and then we we don't have those fears. So then, because I believe that we we are expressions of the absolute in separate, having a separate expression of the absolute. Um, and then we're in a body, so we we have this body as a vessel to have the experience, otherwise, the experience won't exist. Like we have a mind, we have a body, otherwise, separate experience won't exist. We just go back into the absolute where there's no experience, there's no thing there, there's nothing going on. So it's then I came back and I was like, oh my gosh, it is such a blessing to be alive, to have a body, to have a mind, because I've gone into the nothing and there's in the oneness, there's nothing there. So so then so then I had more appreciation for life than I've ever had before. Um, and then I was able to able to hold the understanding that I am the absolute and the Natalie at the same time. So um a part of this I feel is so important for people because um it's not about leaving the body while you do this, but it's about going in and the body kind of dissolves. But the but the body's still there. How can you explain help? Because people need to know that that you're not trying to escape, um, and that you are actually embodied, and the body is the portal back to the absolute. Yeah, can you help explain this to people? Because I feel like this is so important.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

Yeah, we refer to that within Taoism. When you believe, when you know you are not of this body, what can harm you? And all of a sudden, people are like, I don't want to die. Easy. This is part, this is not a requirement, this is a rite of passage. Fearlessness is the baseline, and so this whole relinquishing or reclaiming at the same time the individuality of identity to nothingness, and having those two be synonymous with you when you doesn't exist, is a form of insanity. No, I'm just kidding. And so, you know, and so people go holy moly. And this is kind of like the the basic fundamentals is like dualism, non-dualism, centric, non-centric. You're you're getting this, okay. Well, let's look at one stream is complete, it's whole. And so when you have your cake and eat it, means that you can absolutely embrace your personality and still, and this is where experiential moments outweigh anything else, because the the mind wants to to organize everything and create this order that that gives the more control. And the the true nature of self in the natural order is no control. And so then you go, oh wow, this is uh this is a big pill to swallow because now I'm in a place where if I let go, what's gonna happen? And my answer is always go to the edge and then jump. You need to go right over, and that's where you know you have to be prepared to surrender everything. And you know, uh you know, where I live out in Vegas, there's a thing called the stratosphere, which is the highest point on the Vegas Strip. It's huge. And I take people up there and we jump off. It's like it's literally one of the highest points in America, and it's like a hundred and fifty stories or whatever, and then there they have a thing where you can jump off and and float down to the bottom. But when you get on the edge, your idea of reality changes because everything that you've been resistant to will come up. How much are you prepared to meet yourself? And then once you recognize meeting yourself was so familiar, what was I wasting my time on? I don't even have to identify, and that's the identity you so we go back and forth. It's like, well, completely absolving or um abstaining from any interaction of human consumption is um problematic. But the truth is when you get to alchemize it, for example, I teach people how to take a thought, feeling, and emotion and within a fraction of a second transmute it into just a high-level love fest. And so then you're all of a sudden you can maintain the narrative without maintaining the narrative because this conditioning process will precede your operating system. And so it's a default, and I always refer to your participation is not required. Once you have met that, you continue to meet it. Gets greater and greater and greater to a point where you know you're just being makes everyone in your stratosphere, everyone in your universe just hides a kite. And people are like, I don't know what it is, but I just cannot get enough of hanging out with you because you are now applying that. And so the evidence then dampens and calms the finite mind. And so it has its place. You're never ever being subject to limitation because you're dancing with well, I want my personality today because it's chocolate chip cookies and you know, a whole evening of different strokes. I gotta watch it all day long. I'm gonna Netflix my favorite TV show from the 80s, and I want to eat a box of cookies and some ice cream. Guess what? The only difference is are you going to accept and allow everything as whole? Which is where most people are. And I normally give people a challenge. It's like accept and allow everything in your reality for 72 hours, see what happens. By the 72nd hour, everyone is like, there's just nothing, there's no gossip, there's no uh reflection, there is no, and like everything I instantly meet it, and it just rolls into my path. And that was in 72 hours. It's like, no, but I like drama. I had no idea I liked drama. I had no idea I liked pain and suffering because the second I accept it all, it just disappears. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Absolutely. Acceptance feels like the like the vibration of love. So when when you accept, there's this knowing that everything is whole because it is divine perfection, it just is. And so um, so then you bring all of this, like this knowing, this understanding back into the reality of the experience that you're having. So how are you like to okay, like you gave one example where you you stayed in that like spaciousness and you didn't have emotion in that moment when your son died? Um but you're here, you're you're still in a body, you're still you've got a personality, you're funny. Um so you you know, you you experience emotion, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 46:30

Yeah, yeah, and and that particular event, it was about three three weeks later, I experienced it. At the time, you would think I was completely numb to all of existence, because that's the you can't have an opposing force when you are meeting that, when that is that is the the amplitude of self, which of course, just by saying that you're you're now conjuring up identity, but there's a path and necessity of describing it, and it only comes that way where literally you think it and it is it it is, it's actualized. So that's the operating system from a divinity uh perspective, is the wu ji, which is the primordial mother, is that holy stream that we acquire through conditioning, it becomes the absolute, and so it doesn't matter. And you know, you what what people find difficult is that they can have their cake and eat it. You can switch in and out of those things at any given time. I'm not switching out of my divinity, I'm just choosing to put on my personality cap because I like eating chocolate bonbons and driving my side-by-side in the desert at 100 miles an hour. That's fun. And unfortunately, I still subscribe to Netflix. These are all floors, they're awesome, they're just the human condition. Part of the human condition is experiencing. You're an experiencer, you're a creator, and on that path, you discover that the truth is all of this is the same, all of it. But can you see something in a distorted state? Can you see perfection? Can you see that light of Tao, the God, Buddha, universe? That's where all of a sudden things get a little swayed and you're still on that self-righteous path, start the righteous path. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Yes. Like, for example, um, if people in my community write to me and they're saying, like they're they're looking at the outside world and they're saying, well, there's war out there, um, and and that could that war is bad. So from my own experience of having to dissolve every belief and actually be in the pure absolute, I I know that all is well. I know it. I know that all is in perfection. I know that in the space we are experiencing through duality. Um, and and so then I can still do something about it. So I can not lower my frequency and feed into it, but I can light a candle and do a human thing and light a candle, and which I do every night, and I say, May peace be remembered in all hearts. So so things like that. How how can you help people to understand this concept of like everything is divine perfection, even though there's like war and people being killed and all of that?

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the conflict, we refer to it in Taoism, you cast the wicked away and you draw that person closer because it's all a transfer of obfuscation. There, no one wants to ever be accountable for the truth. It's like I want the Hollywood version. Give me the secret source version of the most divine fantasy of how it is, but to recognize that with all that pain and suffering, death and destruction, the the continued resonance that is whole requires a complete dissolving of anything and everything at the same time. And so you you can see where you're at when you're compelled by your emotional state that overrides the true nature of who you are. So you're like, ah, well, this is this is this is horrible. Who who would condone the murdering of millions of people or the blowing up of a country, or you know, just the geopolitical stance of many people that want to spend time dancing between which favorite team you're on? I mean, it it's all part of you recognizing that all of this is still a small node point of who you are. And then the more and more you recognize the beauty and the perfection that you hold that resonance, as this completes, these events will start to dissolve. The more people that wake up, the more these events will become fewer and fewer and fewer. We all have to participate and remember as as that holy stream. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Yes. So instead of focusing towards the the lower frequency resonance, like the dissonance of the war, instead of focusing at it and going, oh, what's happening out there? Um we recognize it's out there and we can, and it's out there because it's in here. Like we have to take responsibility for ourselves because when we're then able to look at ourselves, have awareness of our own, our own mind, our own patterning, and we recognize, oh, I'm actually judging myself or I've got these patterns against myself, and we dissolve them, then out there is going it is going to dissolve because out there is an appearance based on our vibration.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Well, yeah, I mean it's a it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more you continue, the same you will repeat. Your gift is your offering. And so everything you put out, you receive. But you know, people want to be more self-inclusive by oh, well, this is my individual path. I need to be on that first before I can be selfless. But in actuality, your selfishness to your selflessness requires that sacrifice that means that when you uh put out this unconditional uh acceptance, it returns to you tenfold, it continues to replicate, and it gets more of a grand peak because you're in you're infusing that holy screen into everything around you, and then that everything around you starts to replicate that, and then it and it m builds on itself like a tidal life, and it's never ending, it's never ending, you know. That's the thing. It's like, oh, well, I thought I was gonna hit the end of the video game, uh beating the boss, and now I'm back to square one. What happened to that? And that's part of that love, despise, and fear cycle, which is creation, completion, and then rebirth. This is the the true nature of Taoism, that you can slip into any point at any moment, and it's all gravy, baby. All of it.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

And where are we now? Like with with like a collective, a collective mind, a humanity, where and where do you feel as like we're going?

SPEAKER_01 54:20

Well, I'm gonna refer back to Latsu, my teacher, and he always, whenever he has anyone that becomes self-consumed by you know, you know, the identity, their life path, their individuality, it starts with something like this. Imagine you're like a grain of sand asking the beach, what are we doing today? Fall back into the beach and be realized. And you go, is it there? You are you can't make this stuff up. It's like you can't make it up. But the truth be known, the the incessant and sepant uh neuroses of individuality is where people get caught up. So, you know, human beings being so consumed by the death of humanity as another moving piece and oscillating completion within a universal stage is so um self-consumed, so absolutely self-indulgent. You know, it's like, oh my goodness, well, what's gonna happen? Uh is the financial system gonna collapse? Is uh is uh you know the world gonna be blown up? And there are logical questions because of the circumstance of the world order right now, but the truth be known, once you meet the solvency of self and you truly are not attempting to uh um analyze or apply all is one, one is all, then this is not a question that even comes up in the operating system. So you know where you are in your own journey because your need to solve something that is so fear-based is still something you have to grow into where there's no such thing. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Yes, yes, because actually, when we dissolve back into absolute, there's no more questions. You just know it's it's a divine perfect flow, like the flow of water, it's just flowing, it knows where it's flowing, it's not trying to figure out where it's flowing, and instead of like swimming upstream um and trying to control, there's like this deep surrender and trust, and you and then you you you float with the river and then you swim with it. That's when you you become really like a conscious part of it. And and what happens with this is like the the personality, the um the ego is empty, it like empties out, it has hardly any patterns, just it just is. Um like it's logical and it knows how to take orders. Um so you've got the soul, because it's still the separate experience. You've got you've got the absolute, which is the absolute truth. Then you've got this spark of light, which is the soul, which is the separate experience of like consciousness experiencing itself uniquely, which then has an ego. You do all the work of dissolving the patterns of the ego, and the ego rests upon the primordial state of consciousness, which is then when you have this alignment of um action happens as thought arises, or sometimes it's not even thought. Like, you know, if you're moving your hand, you're not going, I I want that hand to move. You just you go hand moving, like you don't even think, hand just moves. So it happens all at once. You are you are tapping into the infinite field of what you are, and action is happening through you as you, and and so there isn't there this like separateness. And I feel like this is where the expansion is taking humanity um as each one of us keeps um coming back to the present moment where the absolute has always been and is.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Amen to that. No, I mean that is just so beautiful, it's so potent. But you know, it's like um uh when when I get um a lot of a lot of my students become obsessed with psychic powers.

SPEAKER_00 58:34

I want to talk about this, yes.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

Yeah, so you know, uh telekinesis, pyrokinesis, psychokinesis, and then you know, clairvoyance, meeting channeling. These are all side effects of meeting yourself. And the more you condition through the alchemy, all these things just pop up. You're like, oh my goodness, my dashboard has got all these extra features. I had no idea they were there, and that just comes through the processes. But you know, you just you basically gave the audience an example of the ultimate telekinetic experience. So, you know, I I've I did a video a while back where I I started the video with, you know, um, what was it, uh um magnetizing things, right? So I'd take a uh a fork and magnetize coins or uh paper clip just by touching it and be like, oh my goodness. And then I went to, you know, basic telekinesis, like this, the pinwheel where I move the pinwheel with my mind, and then of course, um glue a penny to a wall, just fuse it to the wall or any kind of metal object, and then of course, one that's a little bit more defiant, which is paper. So fuse paper, and then I said, now it's time for real telekinesis, and then I got under an 800-pound hack spot and I pushed that out for five or six reps. And so you're not like sitting down and contemplating if you've ever exercised or met yourself with a resistance, whether someone goes, hey, go and run around the block, or you know, do a sprint or a push-up. Everyone's done one at some point in their life. Uh, abdominal crunch, whatever. These are examples of how potent your telekinetic power is. You think it and it's actualized. Yeah, as you said before, you gave a perfect example. I'm not thinking about my hand, it just becomes that. It's like, and it's like, hang on, whoa. It's like, oh, holy moly, all of this is going on instantaneously. And you know, so when people get excited when they're slowed down with the pyrokinesis, psychokinesis, levitation, all the kind, these are all things that can be taught, and I do teach, and they're super exciting, but they get kind of dull and boring compared to who you really are. But you need to go through these phases of awareness. So, you know, this type of uh uh conditioning comes with the alchemical process, just part of it. But I thought that example you gave was a classic for telekinetic potential because people just dismiss that. It's like the birthing of a child is the most potent magic that you could ever set your eyes on, the creation of life, it is so potent. But most people are like, yeah, yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

I know, and like just actually being in a body and seeing and hearing and experiencing, like that is that is potent. That is that is the absolute experiencing itself, and like personally, just recently, I've my brain has been going through light expansion. Like I'm seeing the light, then I'm feeling it, and it's like waves and waves, and I'm walking and I'm constantly feeling waves of light moving through me. And and I went to yoga this morning, and and we didn't do yoga, we just sat there, me and my yoga teacher, because um I was like, wow, I'm like, while we're talking, the whole right side of my brain like it feels metallic and it feels it's going, I don't know how to describe it, but then it felt like my face, and I was looking and I was like, you're turning into light, it's going down my arm. I'm like, I don't even know if I can do yoga because like she's like, you're gonna, maybe you're gonna levitate. So I'm like, well, maybe, maybe I can stick my hand through a wall. But the thought of I can stick my hand through the wall is what would then block me from sticking my hand through the wall. But something's happening, and who knows what's gonna happen next. But I can feel little contractions in the solar plexus where it goes, um, like a little bit of fear about um like am I gonna disappear? Or like a little bit of contraction about like what's actually happening as as I'm holding more light in my body. So some work to be done here for me to like dissolve that and and see where it takes me. But I'm just super fascinated to hear what what you've had, like um physically the experiences, like have you had the brain things and the energy things, and yeah, please share with me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Yeah, I mean, I um I had that words equivalent to a dark night of the soul, you know, when when it first when I first met Matsu. And the transmutation was, you know, basically everything was convulsing and and in rapture, in in distortion. And I would basically all the lights turned on at once. So every everything had um auric fields, information just coming out of us. If you're looking at a computer screen, everything at once. And so I would bump into people's auric fields where I couldn't even contain my own. It was like a bouncing ball, like I was being pushed around and I could see all the auras, all the colors, all their thoughts, all their feelings. That's when things shut, turn on. Then, of course, you become mastered with that, and then it becomes just a standard issue where, you know, even though you and I are talking, the backdrop for me is the middle of the desert, and I'm sitting here at a table with all my teachers, and I see them and hear them as clear as I hear and see you. And this is what some people might consider a, you know, a an LSD experience, uh, an ayahuasca experience, a DMT experience, an out-of-body experience, but it's vivid technocolor 10K right now, just as we are talking. So I'm operating this system outside of the current conversation we're having because my backdrop has nothing to do with anything other than you are now melding into the background of my reality. So I see you floating, and the backdrop is the desert, and I'm sitting at a table, literally having dinner in the middle of the desert with all my teachers. And I hear and see them, and it's tangible. So you can just alter that. I can be here, and then I can be a grain of sand on the New Jersey shore, and I can taste that water, that salt water, as it as it runs in and bleeds with the sand. This is part of it. You need to be able to experience everything. You are everything and nothing. And this is a conditioned state where it's so it's so tangible that I you I can't tell the difference between my teacher Latsu and you, and I can hear him and see him and have conversation. Now, in the psychotic, uh uh break moment any psychologist would consider me batshit crazy you know the the truth be known but I can I can merge the two where I can show you experiences of the tangibility of that material real time and then they freak out it's like okay take an object I'll imbue the object and they're on the other side of a screen across the globe and they feel the texture the weight and the emanation of it completely altered in the same breath and they're like holy shit they they drop it immediately because it's a freaky thing it's like but we're so far apart but no we're not and everything is one but I don't ever question it I mean some of the first interactions like I said I witnessed the the the the gangrious flesh turn back to pink in color in 40 minutes that woman's foot should have been amputated and then I had this I was kind of obsessed it was like a phenomenon for me I became obsessed with transmuting flesh so I would come up and put my hands on someone's stomach and melt their fat or you know they have bunions on their feet and I would play with the bunions and they turn into putty and all of a sudden they just dissolve back into the bone and the bone would be perfect. It wouldn't be altered and so I had this this obsession for a while and then I would take people's sebaceous cysts and race them to the top of the skin and pop them like a you know 4th of July like a firework and it became obsessive because it's like oh my goodness it's like you just made this moment. Specifically I remember this one woman she had this huge cannonball size um infection she was breastfeeding her her child just gave birth breastfeeding and it was huge. So I I was called to her assistance and literally her husband and I watched as her skin separated and about two liters of pasta just poured out of her chest and then it closed up and sealed in front of our very eyes and I'm like no I've seen I I there's nothing I don't believe is possible. It's just a matter of being there. And so when people ask me what's the limitation none it's just like where are you meeting yourself? And these events happen over and over again you know I mean my I'm more I'm that guy more commonly that people go I've I someone told me to call you I have a loved one who's sick in hospital they're gonna die and I'm always like don't worry about it for good and the next minute they come out of the karma the next day and they're right is rain and they live happily ever after because the it's a it's like now as you understand what that is there's no I'm not contemplating it. Let me no it is already set it's already done the story has been written and when you identify and realize that all just comes together everything comes together.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:59

And so you see these miracles all day every day I mean I've got thousands of them I mean it just it's happened you know in things that you go there's no way you know like one of my students his son fell off um fell off a table and fractured his uh clavicle bone and I said don't worry about it um in the same moment in situations like that where distortion is being melted sometimes there's a moment where it's like a pause and what I do is I see that moment and people go well do you need me to tell you it's my uncle his name and like I don't know it's like it's now I don't need to know anything about anything it just happens and so this particular situation I watched the I watched the light absorb everything purify and the next day he's like holy shit his son's clavicle is fused it was never broken and so you know these kind of things are they they become normal as they should be yes so then how come with some people it takes them a whole healing journey to get well and others instantaneously right right there's there has to be a participatory moment it's like you are also exactly the same stream as me.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

There's no difference so you're when someone has an ownership they only have an ownership where it's some miracle oh wow someone mailed me a million dollar check that was my manifestation or you know I just I I got this I got the job I was looking for and then when they invest in all the distortion of their finite mind's not me I'm not participating why am I having bad luck God help me what's going on here but what happens I remind people when I teach them this conditioning process your resonance gets higher so you get to a certain point where there's no splitting of anything. So you're high in the resonance but if you want to still play the little juggling game that oh let me hide and seek with my personality that I haven't just been given this new graduation gift which is a superpower of meeting this present moment that only then is it real. It's not real when something bad happens and I've decided to be obsessive and my finite mind has overridden the system but the juice and the resonance is still there and you haven't separated the two you haven't separated them to become complete. So then you're like well I don't have to take ownership of that it's not really I'm not the one doing this it's someone else what kind of evil spell has been put over me and the truth be known is once that resonance rises you there's no turning back it only gets stronger and stronger and stronger. So with that guess what happens you have the potency so you have to realize that with good comes bad as long as you're playing in a dualistic space. And so you have to be participatory and you know I see this happen thousands of times over decades where there'll be no commitment I'll meet it I'll see it it's done and then there'll be a commitment and then a distortion and a manipulation where the individual is far too invested in it. If it's just now I I'm not I always remind people I'm not looking for you to acknowledge that I'm the next coming of Jesus it doesn't bother me whatsoever. I'm not looking for the the accolades I'm not looking for the acknowledgement you're coming to me to hold that node I'll show you the node you're going to immerse in it now you're meeting yourself the question is is this is this going to hold or are you going to break like the Russian doll? And in most cases many people will literally actualize themselves I've seen it over and over again where they haven't taken years of training they literally meet me and they just actualize and you're like wow this is awesome because all I'm doing is holding that node if they can accept it oh all bets are off. And then there's those moments where you have the um I don't know the spiritual Karen whatever you want to call it where oh my goodness I just everything is just it's so difficult. It's so hard I can't really get a handle on it. Listen to your linguistics.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

You're literally forming your reality right here you're carving it you're forging it into a very disappointing outcome does that make sense absolutely like when I've I've had some clients come work with me that have had cancer and they are so they actually know that they are their wholeness exists right here and they come and we sit in this high frequency space and because they know it they can we can meet in the the high resonance and and they've healed like so I so I have seen it I know it and then and then sometimes others there's like a journey like there's layers and layers and they they they're like met with another layer oh all of a sudden they get like these images of a past life or they have like a strong trauma or emotional release and because some people maybe it just it it's like it seems to be that part of the journey is not fast and hard and like there it goes but part of the experience is like meeting these layers and then they're dissolving and then you you get back to the emptiness so I guess it's just all divine perfect like it doesn't need to be that way or that way it just it it's it is the way the way it's not your way it's not my way it's the way which is the path of truth.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:04

Yeah you know um you you you just come across that you you you the the the healings are just uh I've got so many that I should write about two or three books on it because they're they're instantaneous when I when I am like the fire starter or ignition of that resonance which is just the the meeting of you calling my name is all it takes. And people don't even recognize holy moly I didn't even talk to the guy and poof and so all this kind of stuff it goes from everything from something as insignificant as you know um a door being locked that was never locked or you know a miracle of flesh melding and returning back to hole.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:59

These are all just parts and expressions of self which are absolute wow thank you so much for this time together I'm so very grateful to she's to spend time with you my friend and this has been um euphoric I'm as high as AF absolutely is tingling with light the room is turned into just vibratory light like and and I feel at peace with my brain going wild with light it just thank you for for being in the space with me it's profound it's it's home you're burning my eyebrows um blinded right now I can't really see too well so everyone who's here who's watching who's been receiving this is resonance this is why you're you're drawn to to us to be with us because because something's happening you are remembering you we're just mirrors of each other and we're experiencing more of the absolute that is here that is what we are so everyone who's here thank you for being here beautiful community and sun queen thank you so much this has been a true pleasure in my heart oh and back at you my dear friend back at you because that's that melding and that complete dissolving and that's where we are as one and we feel that heartbeat we feel that love that's unconditional in this very moment