Lights, Camera... Aggro?
Lights, Camera… Aggro? is a movie podcast where two film fans with completely different tastes review, debate, and discuss everything from Marvel movies and Hollywood blockbusters to independent cinema, character-driven dramas, and award-winning films.
Phil loves superhero movies, action films, blockbuster franchises, and as many car chases as possible. Nicky prefers thoughtful storytelling, nuanced scripts, character-led dramas, and films that capture the beauty of real life.
Each episode features honest movie reviews, lively film discussions, and entertaining debates as they search for common ground. Can Nicky find something to love in the latest superhero blockbuster? Will Phil survive a slow-burning drama where the biggest action is a conversation?
Whether you’re into Marvel, Oscar contenders, indie films, action movies, or simply love hearing passionate film fans talk movies, Lights, Camera… Aggro? delivers funny conversations, fresh perspectives, and plenty of disagreements along the way. Sometimes they agree. More often, they don’t—and that’s what makes it worth listening.
Contact: lightscameraconflict@gmail.
Lights, Camera... Aggro?
The Empire Strikes Back / Before Sunset
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
It’s mini pod time! Your between-season fix, keeping you going before the start of Series Three. For two weeks only, the format has been abandoned as Phil and Nicky complete the trilogies they started in Series Two.
Phil is here with THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (1980) whilst Nicky has brought BEFORE SUNSET (2004). Enjoy!
References mentioned, and wider reading…
Post by Shaun Watson -
https://swatson7856.medium.com/movie-review-star-wars-episode-v-the-empire-strikes-back-1980-d233d27ce339
Review bv Roger Ebert -
https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-empire-strikes-back-1997-1
Review by Peter Bradshaw -
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2004/jul/23/before-sunset-review
Post by Jaime Rebanal
https://cinemafromthespectrum.com/2019/08/31/before-sunset-review-taking-that-one-chance-that-got-away-all-over-again/
• Finally, you can find us on Bluesky at @lightscamereapod
• On Insta at @lightscameraaggro
• Or you can email us at lightscameraconflict@gmail.com
(Yes, we set up our email address before we’d finalised our name. What of it?!)
Hello and welcome to Lights Camera Aggro. This is your between series pop-up pod, keeping you full of lights, full of camera, and full of aggro before the start of series three. I'm Nikki and I'm designed to feel slightly dissatisfied.
SPEAKER_00And I'm Phil and never tell me the odds. This week we're doing something a bit different. We're ripping up our format and we're completing the trilogies that we started in series two. Nikki gets to finish the before films, and I get to share the original Star Wars trilogy, the first three films. Today I've brought the 1980 film The Empire Strikes Back.
SPEAKER_02And I bought the 2004 film Before Sunset. Do these films have anything in common? Not in the slightest. But we're marching on regardless. Don't forget to drop us a like and subscribe and share your comments below.
SPEAKER_00But before we start, remember this is going to be full of spoilers. If you haven't seen The Empire Strikes Back or before sunset, now's the time to pause the pod and come back when you're done. We'll be waiting.
SPEAKER_02Right, Phil, I'm gonna let you go first. Why did you bring the Empire Strikes back and force me to watch it?
SPEAKER_00This is seminal for me.
SPEAKER_02Okay. The first one was seminal for you.
SPEAKER_00No, the first one like got me into my interest in films. This one changed it. It was dark. I'd never seen anything where the way it ends, you know, it left it on a cliffhanger. The type of films I was watching childhood, you know, it was like done and dusted the film. And then you know, they might bring a sequel out, but this this left it where, like, oh shit, what's gonna happen next? You know, was is is Hang gonna be alright? Uh are they gonna come back? As you know, I just generally didn't know, and I love the fact that it it wasn't the heroes who were winning everything. The heroes basically lost this movie, and you don't get many movies where it's like that.
SPEAKER_02It's the ending surprised me. Yeah, came it did surprise me, I'll say that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I will say the ending of our next film surprised me as well.
SPEAKER_02But but we'll go into that in a bit.
SPEAKER_00We'll go into that in a bit, um, but yeah, this this was just this is most people's best rated sci-fi film ever made.
SPEAKER_02No, you know I don't like it when you just say random things. Lots of polls. Is that is that really a thing? Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00It's always up there as one of the best films. I you know, if it's not the best in in, you know, a top hundred sci-fi movie, it's always in at the top five at least, because it was just so well done. And obviously, everybody knows the I am your father line. I mean, that's been parodied so many times. Toy Story and The Simpsons, The Simpsons did it really well. Where Homer was uh Marge were on a date and he'd come out of the cinema, and as they come out of the cinema, the cue is like massive, and Homer goes, Whoa, I never thought that Darthavither was Luke Skywalker's dad, and then you all the key going, Oh man, it was just done really well. Um, but I'll go through a brief um talk about what the film is.
SPEAKER_02With this podcast today, we're not going through an in-depth chronology of what happens timeline-wise. We're just doing a sort of we're gonna do more of a chat than a sort of a summarizing. But you've you've got a paragraph.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's so basically this film was released in 1980 and directed by Ivan Kershner, who took over the directing duties from George Lucas. George Lucas found it incredibly difficult to direct his passion project, Star Wars. So George Lucas was heavily involved in this, but he gave the reins to Ivan Kirchner, and some say was better for it. It was released in 1980, as I said, The Empire Strikes Back, which is episode four, uh, in the in the Star Wars saga. It's wide regarded as one of the greatest science fiction films ever made, serving as the second of the release of the original trilogy. It continues a story that began in a new hope. Rather than following the traditional pattern of a sequel, the way the hero simply becomes stronger and defeat the villains, the Empire Strikes Back tells a much darker story where it's more emotional, and the Rebel Alliance is constantly on the run from the Empire. The friendships are tested, uh choices, difficult choices are made, and the film ends with the heroes defeated rather than victorious. This movie explores more themes of hope, failure, courage, and destiny and temptation. You know, while introducing memorable new characters like Yoda, Lando Carizian. It also contains one of the most famous pot test, as we just mentioned earlier, uh, where Darth Vader reveals he is Luke Skywalker's father, and that tests, you know, his friendship with Obi-Wan Kenobi. You know, where Obi-Wan Kenobi had told him something different. Through its groundbreaking visual effect, a musical score by John Williams. This score, this is on another level from the last film. This one has got proper themes to it. It's again, I could probably hear a little piece of music from this. You know, you could play me like one minute, I could tell you the exact scene when it was. I know the score that was.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to be testing you on that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But this film has been made a firm favourite among Star Wars fans, as probably the best one. So Okay. Yeah. Thank you. What what so this, you know, I know this is your first time of watching.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I've never seen it before. And well, it's the same with the first one, isn't it? I've never seen that before. Um so obviously it's not my thing, obviously, we know I'm not into sci-fi, blah de blah. It's fascinating hearing you have all say all that, because you've made it seem more uh important and more deep, have more depth even. It has a lot more depth. I'm sure it may well have, but on a first-time watch of someone who's not that bothered, you know, I'm sort of wondering where that depth is, and that's not because I it's not got depth, it's just because you know I'm not the person to be doing this. It's fascinating though, because it it definitely I definitely had some surprises in there. So, first of all, obviously, obviously, I knew I well I knew that Darth Vader right from the beginning, I've a known that is the dad because of just living in the words.
SPEAKER_00I don't think you can escape that either.
SPEAKER_02But I didn't realise it was going to come in so soon. Like, as in this is the second I know you're saying four, but you know, in the world at the time it was the second, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I always thought that that twist had come in later. Because I remember everyone going on about it when I was like, I think when I was, I felt like it was when I was older than like I was two when this film came out, so I don't remember everyone going on about this when I was two. But I feel like everyone went on about Luke, I'm your father, even though that's a misquote that I now know. Um I thought everyone, I thought it was when I was older, so I've just misremembered that being a twist later on.
SPEAKER_00But it's just you know, you've got to think like though this is you know 1980, and we're currently in 2026, and it is still getting quoted. Oh, yeah. I am your father.
SPEAKER_02It's a proper social cultural thing, isn't it? But the other thing that uh completely surprised me was Yoda. So I don't think I realize I realised Yoda was from Star Wars. Right. I just knew he was one of those characters and things that I didn't know about, and I just but I know Yoda because Yoda's a thing, and I've seen people, you know, comment about it. Well, that blew my mind. It's Frank Oz. Yeah, love Frank Oz. Yeah, didn't know he was Yoda, but this is the point. I know Frank Oz is like the Muppets, yeah, and I know he's done loads of films. He was in Knives Out, I know all this, but I didn't know he did Yoda. Like, why did I not know that when it's obviously a big deal?
SPEAKER_00See, this this is the thing, like these films have passed you by. They absolutely have, that's fair to say. You know, obviously your film tastes are different to mine, and which is why we do this podcast. And I think this works quite well, but I do feel like you missed out on this, you know, you've missed out on a lot with this, in terms of, you know, I think it's okay to come at it now, but you're later in life. Oh, this is not the time to be watching it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I get that completely. And I also think being I think it's not the time in terms of 2026, and also I should have been a child to really be into this, if I was ever gonna be. And I wasn't when when I was a kid, I wasn't gonna be into this anyway. But yeah, it's really it just interested. So Yoda was like, oh, okay, he's from Star Wars, fair play. And I haven't given that any thought as to where Yoda was from. I think I've always vaguely mixed, I realised as I watched this, I mixed him up with the Dungeon Master, you know, from Dungeons and Dragons.
SPEAKER_00Right, okay.
SPEAKER_02Do you know who that is? It was a cartoon when I was a kid, yeah. Right, so that character feels similar to Yoda in my head, and I've never really known that they were separate.
SPEAKER_00What did you get over the way Yoda spoke?
SPEAKER_02Well, I've seen people do impressions and jokes about that all my life, so I understood that. I didn't I don't know, I didn't really well. I think I've seen you I've I've seen depictions of Yoda so many times out of context that when I saw him in context, it almost wasn't shocking, it wasn't interesting or shocking. Oh, okay, there's Yoda, and it'd be interesting. I'm sure that's not how I would have felt or anyone felt when they saw it for the first time.
SPEAKER_00I thought it was very clever to introduce this great powerful character, this Jedi master that Luke was searching for. It's this strange little frog-like creature. Yeah, yeah. I was like, okay, so that's that you know, when I when I originally watched it, I was like, So when we gonna meet the other, when we gonna meet the other? And then when it was revealed it was the other, I was like, whoa.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I can see how that would be, and that was not how it was for me now because it was oh, it's over to find out the joke.
SPEAKER_00You know who it was, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So obviously that's different.
SPEAKER_00What about what about um the love story between Han and Leia?
SPEAKER_02Well, I have thoughts.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02I don't I like a love story, I like a romance. I don't know if it was needed in this film. I don't think it I don't I don't know if it need it what did it do? Well, okay, here's what it did. It made me really dislike Han Solo because he's cruel, he's horrible to her. He's not just being kind of a bit like I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Well he is he's meant to be the lovable rogue, he's very roguish, but I just thought, well, why does she like him?
SPEAKER_02And I did have the thought, were no women around the table here, because I don't like it. It feels like a dated trope where you know the girl fancies the bad boy, you know what I mean? Well, no one's not really the 80s, you know, the 80s. It feels like I I was like, why does she she's what is she the she's a princess? I mean, I'm asking you because I can't remember. Well, yeah, I mean she's princess, she's got a bunch of power, she's got like all these people that she's in charge of. Am I right here? This is what I'm gathering. In general, thank you, right. So she's in charge of a whole bunch of things, and blah blah blah. She can have whoever she wants, probably. And then this like grumpy, roguish, bad boy, cruel the way he talks to her at times, bloke, she doesn't need him. Okay, you know, okay, he's fit, but that's not enough often.
SPEAKER_00I'll go to Greece, she's the little pretty girl, and he's the rogue and he's like horrible to her and stuff. Grease, Grease the film, Greece. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02I thought we were talking about Greece, Shirley Valentine. Sorry, okay. Grease the film, yeah, yeah. So it's kind of like the same thing. So yeah, but they met, they met on holiday at the beginning where they were both just themselves and they really like fancy each other. Then when they go to high school, then she sees he's got like the whole kind of you know act, but in but she met him first. I get that.
SPEAKER_00Well, I always bad example. You know, one of one of the things, well, it's not a bad example, it's just showing that, you know, a different story, guy treats horrible, and I just felt like, come on, Leah, Leah, Leia, still, Leah. Princess Leah.
SPEAKER_02Leah. I still don't know whether I I still think she could have done better, and what was she doing wasting her time? Um, but there's a few other things I need to say as well. What I didn't under I still don't understand from the first film and this one as well. Alec Guinness. Yeah. Obi-Wan Kenobi. Yeah. Right. He is He's in Luke's head.
SPEAKER_00No, he's a ghost.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. This is what I don't know. What I don't know is Luke hears him all the time or every so often, and he hears him being, you know, if he used the force, Luke, or whatever he says, I don't know. Can everyone else see him? Can everyone else see Alec Guinness when he's saying that? Or is it only Luke? And is it just because he's in Luke's imagination? No, it's not. Or is he actually appearing to Luke?
SPEAKER_00So Luke is a force user, he has the force in him, right? Right. Right? So he can see him. In the next film, when we do the next two, um, before Midnight and The Return of the Jedi. Right, Luke sees him again. Spoilers, uh sees his dad and sees Yoda, right? But nobody else is looking in that direction, so I couldn't tell you whether and Luke isn't physically seeing him. He isn't. Ah no, he is seeing him because Yoda sees him as well, doesn't he? That's okay. Yoda speaks to him in the Empire Strikes Bar. Because there's a bit in when Luke goes off because his friends are in trouble, and Obi-Wan Kenobi says he's our only hope, and Yoda goes, No, there is another.
SPEAKER_02There's little uh You say it like that's a master thing, I don't understand any of that, but it's fine, because I don't need to.
SPEAKER_00There's another plot twist coming in the next movie. Okay, well, it proves myself for that. But I didn't see coming, right? I didn't see that coming in Return of the Jedi when when the other plots just happened. I was like, Whoa, where's that coming from? But then upon re-watching the trilogy as with a little bit older, the line is there in the Empire Strikes back where it takes it that way. I love I love the line, I love you, I know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you don't like that. Well, I just think he's a dick.
SPEAKER_00Well, he he's supposed to be a bit of a dick, but she loves him. Well, she shouldn't. Well, she did, and that line was just made up because you know, she she was supposed to shout across, I love you, and he's supposed to shout, I love you back. And both Carrie and Harris and Hard was the well first name, based off the best days. They had a conversation and said it didn't fit with the character, so they just asked, Can we just try this? And the director went with it, and that what ended up in the final cut. Apparently, lots of this movie George Lucas wrote the screenplay for him, and apparently lots of stuff was changed on set, and that's why apparently it's a better movie.
SPEAKER_02We like it when the actors get involved, we've had this conversation before. Um there was a couple of moments, and this might just be me being slightly silly, but I don't mean to be. It was a genuine thought. You know, Darth Vader's knocking around this film quite a bit. Yeah. There was just a few times like so there was a few times where I was thinking, oh, is this gonna be like Scooby-Doo where they take the mask off and reveal who it is? Is that not ever a thing?
SPEAKER_00No. No, so he is you know he is his dad.
SPEAKER_02No, I know, but we kind of want to know, like, yes, but actually he's Alec Guinness in a mask. You know what I mean, or whatever.
SPEAKER_00No, no.
SPEAKER_02No, so that's never a thing. It just felt like you do see him.
SPEAKER_00So in the Return of the Jedi, you do see him properly with his mask off.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Right. But he's not anyone we know.
SPEAKER_00It's not anyone we know. Yeah, see, I was getting father in some moments.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. I was getting Scooby-Doo.
SPEAKER_00We read cries. We read cry.
SPEAKER_02Do you think it will? Do you think it will? Do you think that's what's gonna happen?
SPEAKER_01Probably not.
SPEAKER_02Um I just kept there was a little there was a tiny bit where in this, you kind of the the scene starts where he's kind of just finished putting his mask on. He's kind of just lowering it down.
SPEAKER_00So, what what that scene was for is to show how badly damaged he was. Because the thing is, um, how why Darth Vader wears that suit is he had a light table fight with Obi-Wan Kenobi. Right. And it was on a lava planet, and he got his legs burnt off, his arm chopped off, and he's he's massively scarred.
SPEAKER_02Do am I do I know this already? No. Oh, okay, that's fine.
SPEAKER_00I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_00That's for the prequel trilogy. No, we know, no, no, we're gonna be around.
SPEAKER_02Um that's fine. I had that, so that was a thing I was just thinking, oh, are we gonna find a big reveal of who he is? But okay, I just wanted to double check. Um, a couple of other things, tiny things before I say a few other bits. Don't like it when Luke gets his arm chopped off. Yep. Don't like that at all. No, thank you. Um Lando.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_02Couldn't work him out.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're not supposed to be able to work him out whether he's good or bad or because he was a bit of both, isn't it? Well, he's basically he's Han Solo, but black. Right. Yeah. So he's so basically Han knows him from his days of being like a smuggler and stuff.
SPEAKER_02They all met besties, like hugs, and oh right, yeah, we all knew each other.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And then he betrays him to the empire, but he only betrays him because the empire got there first.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But he's basically become the leader of this city. He's settled down instead of his rogue days and trying to smuggle stuff, he's become a good diplomat, and Han remembers him from his rogue days, and he's settled down, so he's trying to protect the people of the city by giving over Han and stuff. And he and the reason he did it, because he said it doesn't want you, Han, he wants Luke, and he doesn't know who Luke is, so he's not really arsed, to be honest. So he'll give Luke away because he doesn't know who he is.
SPEAKER_02But it's I guess the implication then is Han Solo would also just sell out his mate if he thought he could, you know what I mean? Like the other way around, because he's not, yeah, he has no lucky.
SPEAKER_00Well, you look at the end of A New Hope, Han was just gonna take the money and frig off. Yeah. But then he has got a conscious, so he came back to help Luke.
SPEAKER_02Right, okay.
SPEAKER_00You know, so so yes, he has got a bit of good about him.
SPEAKER_02Um I did find the ending interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, first of all, I was a bit surprised that they didn't s get Han Solo back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I but that kind of slight shock at that was slightly negated by the comedy of him being frozen and looking like he's putting stone or whatever it is. That yeah, that's not a good special effect because it made me laugh.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's you know, it's it's from the it's of the past, it's years ago. Well, why does he have to have a funny like jazz hands and the Well, if you look if you look when he's actually going in, his arms strapped together.
SPEAKER_02No, I so you know, and what what would how would you be when you look when you the wheel in past, it's hysterically funny that he's kind of like ta-da!
SPEAKER_00I do get that. I do get that. And I was the thing like the mould of his face is really strange and it's he's got like massive lips.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it doesn't look real, but that that did make me laugh. However, I was still like, oh my god, what that's the end, they're not gonna sort that out. Yeah, and it felt odd.
SPEAKER_00It was just like I remember seeing it, because I seen this on the cinema. I didn't see how old were you? Uh I remember seeing this on the cinema. I think, right, if I remember right, I seen this on the cinema with A New Hope First and then The Empire Strikes Back as a double bill. You know, and you used to pay like £1.50 a ticket back then, and then you went in, you were in the cinema for like four or five hours watching, you know, and did that. I remember getting to the end, like, what what what's gonna happen with it? And just not knowing being shot, you know, as a as a kid that that's actually happened.
SPEAKER_02It's mad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but great in terms of filmmaking, they've left you want more, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I suppose so.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you know, you like so in terms of you know, you're you're not really a Star Wars fan, right? I get that, I get that. But I find it. But but but I do think you've like slightly enjoyed them because they're like they're all right, well to me, they're really, really good films, yeah. And they're quality made, so you can get that appreciation of it. But I think you've like, so I wouldn't say they're like, I will go back and watch that again, but you think it's better than I thought it would be. So you're a little bit curious to go, so what actually happens to them next?
SPEAKER_02Oh no, you know, no.
SPEAKER_00Well you're gonna find out anyway, well you know.
SPEAKER_02I I'm aware that I will be watching it. Uh no, I just it's not that sci-fi is like, no way, Jose, that's not not I'm never ever gonna engage with it. It's if I am gonna engage with it, it has to be I need to relate to it on some level. I need some character for me to be able to go, oh, I'm really rooting for them, or I need to sort of see the qualities of some. And I struggle with all these people. Like I say, the romance was the closest thing I was gonna be getting into. And I didn't like how I didn't like how Hansella was, to my mind, cruel, but that also meant I didn't believe that Princess Leah would like him, or she'd like him and a bit and then see that he was a dick and then just think I've sod it. Didn't like how he kind of sort of I mean, I know it's the 1980, but you know, the kiss was kind of like sort of not really what she was wanting, or didn't act like she did, and then maybe she did, I don't know. It felt a bit forced on his behalf.
SPEAKER_00So I uh my my take on that is yeah, he's a bit roguish, but she was also playing hard to get. She like really liked him, didn't want to let him know, you know, because you see a bit like when they first kissed, she was a bit like uh like I don't know, I just feel like I oh, I think it'd be written slightly differently now.
SPEAKER_02As I'd be saying about a lot of stuff. Um, and that's okay, because it wasn't now, it was then. But yeah, I don't know, I I didn't buy into it basically. I just thought you wouldn't like him. He's he's treating you badly. He's amazing. I don't know. He is the best character. Yeah. Um my only other take before we I've got some I'd have read around this, uh found some things that other people have said, but my only other take was I don't get the point of Chewbacca.
SPEAKER_00He's the co-pilot.
SPEAKER_02Well, what what does he do? What does he bring?
SPEAKER_00He helps fly the Millennium Falcon.
SPEAKER_02I just got bored of hearing his noise.
SPEAKER_00He carries the CPO around.
SPEAKER_02I just felt like there was nothing for him to do. It's almost like I guess that I guess that. It was almost like a comedy character. It wasn't as funny anymore, just lingering.
SPEAKER_00We also got to remember, like, you know, and and this will come into play more in the next movie. Sells toy figures. You know.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I understand the way that's yeah, I get that.
SPEAKER_00Like, I remember from this film, I had Luke Skywalker and Han Solo in Hoffgear, the snow gear. Then they had Han Solo in his gear that he wore while he's Flying Man's jacket and stuff. Luke Skywalker in his Degabar gear. I mean Luke Skywalker in his um You were very spoiled. Oh yeah. In his gear that he flew his X-Wing with. I yeah, I had all sorts of different figures.
SPEAKER_02Of all of these characters, the only thing I would want, and I don't I don't think I really would care that much, but if I had to, would be a little Yoda.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, get Yoda.
SPEAKER_02I'd have a little Yoda. Mr. Miyagi feels like there's a real link there as well, which I wasn't entirely sure. I think added into the racism that I perceived in crafting it that this mystical figure.
SPEAKER_00You just needed the beginning years and they would have been the same thing.
SPEAKER_02It just felt like, yeah, I don't know. But anyway, I liked the whole do or do not, there is no try. Yeah. And I thought that was a really nice motto for life. But then I also did also think, but try your best and keep keep going. And just trying is what you need to do. So I don't agree with it necessarily.
SPEAKER_00Well there's there's so many quotable lines from this film, it's it's unreal, you know. Like you say, never tell me the odds, use the force, um, do or do not, I am your father, you know.
SPEAKER_02Misquoted, isn't it? Luke.
SPEAKER_00It's like it's always misquoted.
SPEAKER_02It is, I didn't realise that till I uh watched it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's so I mean obviously there's been lots of parody movies come out of the Space Balls. Have you ever seen Space Balls? No, obviously not. Yeah, well, Space Balls 2 is really important coming out. They just did a Comic Con yesterday. It was it yesterday or Friday, and it was the first time Rick Moranis has come back to screen. Oh, I see. I am really pleased that Rick's come back.
SPEAKER_02I saw him pop up on something on social media today where it said he's doing something.
SPEAKER_00Um he looks similar. Yeah, well, he plays um what's his character? It's like Dark Helmets, he's basically Dark Vader. Oh, okay. Dark helmets and stuff. And um Mel Brooks plays the Yoda character. Okay, and they use the Schwartz, not the Fox. Um the first one's uh was it Bill Pullman was the main character in it? He played like the Han Solo type thing. John Candy was the Wookiee kind of character, you know, the late great John Candy. So yeah, that that's coming out. So there's so much come from these films, it's untrue.
SPEAKER_02Well, I was having a look online to see what other people have said, and it is interesting how it's hard to find stuff that's just about this film from 1980. Yeah, there's so much about it in more recent years, and so much about all of the films and all of the the universe, but just trying to pinpoint what stuff that came out about this, it's really hard.
SPEAKER_00So well, one thing I just want to point out just before we go into this this little bit. What I like about this film in particular, you know, and and then I I I'm criticising a lot of modern films now, not just Star Wars films, some of the Marvel movies have gone this way and stuff. They always try and put humour in them. Well, I like that. I like the fact this was just serious all the way through. You don't need humour all the way through. I mean, you could say there's a couple of little moments where Yoda's a little bit funny before you get to know him, you know, he's a bit quirky when you find before you find out he's Yoda, but it's just a very serious film. I think I think that's okay to have humour in some films.
SPEAKER_02I think it's the poor afford not having humour, in the sense that that's why I don't really buzz off the new um Ghostbuster films, because I just don't think they're as funny as they could be. Or, you know, I enjoyed I enjoyed Yoda. I think he's my favourite character, and why? He's vaguely comedic, he's not very comedic, you know. You're right, it is more serious than it's not a comedy. But I don't know, I think you do need light relief, and it doesn't always have to be like a gag fest.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you do need some like light and yeah, but I think just in in in Showback film, I think it's meant to be a bit light. Yeah, I think in modern films you just put too much humour in, like when I watch like too much humour. I'm going back to re-watching the Marvel movies at the moment because we've got the new Avengers coming out this Christmas, and the first ones, tiny little bits of humour in here and there, but some of the later ones there's just too much humour.
SPEAKER_02No, I see. I need the humour to get me on board. Well, I need it. So Sean Watson wrote a medium post, um, with the link will be in the show notes, and basically pointed out back then audiences didn't like the ambiguous ending, how the bad guys won at the end, how Luke looked very different, and how Darth Vader and Luke were father and son. It didn't play well at the time. But I think as a whole, it's now become this thing, which as you say is like it may be considered the best of all of it. Um but audiences ultimately stuck around because they were invested in the characters and then they needed to know it'd be okay in the end. Also, he said, Harrison Ford, this is a quote, Harrison Ford was trying to get his character killed off in this film and he got his wish with being frozen in carbonate. The production team did not know if the actor would come back, so this would have been a convenient way to write him out of the sequel.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Did not know that.
SPEAKER_00Well, he did. So in late, in late so when they Disney took over Star Wars and they did episode seven, they killed off Hans Hole. He finally got his wish. He finally got his wish. Oh, nice one. Uh he came back on screen. Disappointingly, like they got all the characters, they got uh Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford back for these new films, but never once got them on screen together, and I thought it was poor A40.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and then finally, it's obviously Roger Ebert.
SPEAKER_00Oh god.
SPEAKER_02Well, no, this is the problem, it's not from 1980 because again, heart couldn't find anything uh from then. But this is from 1997, so is that when maybe something else had come out? I don't know. Don't know.
SPEAKER_00That could have been the um the special editions.
SPEAKER_02So he said, it was largely positive. He said, quote, the film was made in 1980 with full knowledge that Star Wars had become the most successful movie of all time. If corners were cut in the first film's budget, no cost was spared in this one. It is a visual extravaganza from beginning to end, one of the most visionary and inventive of all films. Now that was his view in 1997, sorry. So I thought, okay, fine. He did then add this, which made me feel seen about Chewbacca. This character was thrown into the first film with window dressing, was never thought through, and as a result, has been saddled with one facial expression and one mournful yelp. Much more could have been done. How can you be a space pilot and not be able to communicate in any meaningful way? Does Han Solo really understand choose monotonous noises? Do they have long chats sometimes? And I thought, yeah, I think that's what I was feeling about Chewbacca. Like, why are you there? Why are you making that noise again? So I I felt fair play, fair play.
SPEAKER_00But yeah. I will I'll drop it just to end at a little bit of trivia in. And I think most people know this, but you won't. Okay. The scene the scene at the beginning in the snow where Luca's attacked by the uh the wompet that he gets, you know, chained up upset down and stuff.
SPEAKER_02The scene that reminded me of Superman in the snowy plays. Yes, right. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That had that wasn't originally written in the script, but but they had to put it in because Mark Hamill had been in a car crash before and was slightly disfigured. So they had to they had to ult ult show he dad some life altering stuff to do that.
SPEAKER_02Because he had scars on his face, didn't he? Yeah, I read that when I was doing my research.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02Cool. So we've boxed off. We've boxed off. The best sci-fi film ever made. The second sci-film sci-fi film I've ever watched. Okay, it's my turn to be very, very happy. Before sunset is the second in the trilogy of the before films that Richard Link later made with Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy. And we left before sunrise, which we did in our pod recently. We left Jesse and Celine having spent the day and the night together, having met on a train in Vienna, they have fallen in love, they've had this amazing connection, and they say goodbye at the station and plan to meet in six months.
SPEAKER_00I also want to add that we discussed at great length where he brushed his teeth on and I just listened to the podcast on the way, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I had some practical uh issues about that, which I never thought of when I was 19 and falling in love with it. And as far as everyone knew, that was the end of the film. It was an ambiguous ending. They planned to meet in six months, and no one knew if they had or not. Nine years later, in 2004, the three of them, Richard Link later and Ethan Hawke and Julie Delphi, got back together and before Sunset came out. And to say that this was like a big anticipated film is, you know, for fans of the first one, this was like, oh my god, they've done a second, this is amazing.
SPEAKER_00Was this on the level of anticipation of The Empire's Trades Back? Farm more than I can imagine. The biggest film ever made to have the scene.
SPEAKER_02In my life, yeah. But this what this is a bit like The Godfather, as in fans of the trilogy consider this to be the best one. So the first one everyone loves. Really? Yeah, absolutely. First one everyone loves because they love it, because it got them into it. The second one they go, oh, but this might be the better film, actually. It's you know, they love it because it's more of the characters that they've fallen in love with, but it's considered a better film. I'm not gonna do the whole chronology of it, but to be fair, there's not much in terms of plot.
SPEAKER_0080 minutes long, that is it. This film.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, one hour twenties. Yeah, it's 80 minutes, isn't it?
SPEAKER_0080 minutes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it zips through, but it's it's uh so beautiful. Okay, so we we start the film where Jesse is now nine years older and he's written a book, and he is on a book tour. This is does this doesn't doesn't seem that realistic to me that you one book will get you a European book tour as an American author, but you know, that's the only bit that I go, ah, that's funny. He's on a book tour in Paris, it's the last night of his 10, 12 night uh tour, and he's in the bookshop, it's a real bookshop, Shakespeare and Company.
SPEAKER_00He's also made it that his last final date is in Paris.
SPEAKER_02Yes, it's in Paris. And he's talking to some journalists and some people in the bookshop, did a little talk, which it does seem realistic, but usually only for much more famous authors. And as he's talking and answering questions about, you know, this book that he's written about the night that he met Celine, which is fictionalized but still very much based on fact, there she is in the bookshop listening, and he catches her eye. And that moment when he sees her, it's like a punch to the gut, the emotion. Because he's like, this is nine years later, and he sees this woman, and it's like he's completely distracted. And he carries on and he managed to get through her, and then he's they kind of meet up, and the rest of the film is them walking around Paris catching up with each other, seeing how their lives have been, what's going on, until the end. We'll talk about the end in a bit. Yeah, the end. So, what did you think? Like when you went into it, what were you thinking about?
SPEAKER_00This is the second time I've seen this film.
SPEAKER_02Is it? When was the first?
SPEAKER_00Um I I think it was one. So, this is one of those films where you badgered on to me, you need to watch these. I think the first you told me to watch the first one, and I watched the first one, and I thought, yeah, it was okay, like and so then me being me, I've got to finish. Right. So I did this one. Oh, I didn't know you. And I couldn't remember that I'd seen it. Okay. Right. And then when I see him sat in the bookshop, I went, yeah, I've seen this one. Oh, okay, okay. Do you want what I think about the movie now?
SPEAKER_02Well, why not? Right. I mean, I'm gonna rave about it first.
SPEAKER_00So I find it interesting that fans find this the better of the films. It has the most emotional impact. I I prefer the first film to this one. Okay. Um I think the conversational flow worked for me personally better than the first one. I think the Vienna backdrop was better looking than Paris. Sorry to all our French lessons. Never been. Sorry to all our French listeners. Um I just thought the setting looked better. Um, and I thought the conversation was more interesting in the first one. This conversation too much based on sex. Uh, bring up sex quite a bit, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Then I thought I'm having it.
SPEAKER_00Then I thought it was a bit stupid where she pretended to not remember they had sex. I didn't like that, right? Okay. Um and then she goes, actually twice. And it's like, and he didn't remember that he had sex twice. Of course he would remember they had sex twice. If he if he's that in love with her, and she's that in love with him, you know.
SPEAKER_02Nine years before, and there's been a lot of like rose-tinted constant you know, remembering.
SPEAKER_00But if you are that in love with somebody, you remember every detail. That one night is meant to be the most special night of your life or day. But it's Bob in the. To me, to me, that that again it's to somebody else, their opinion might be completely different. Like your opinion is different to me.
SPEAKER_02But for me personally, I so I think I fascinate that you think they talk about sex too much. I never thought that at all. What I find really interesting about this, and it's similar to the first one, I was 19 when I watched the first one, which wasn't when it first came out. When I watched this one, I was in my early 20s and I was married, and I had a job, you know, life had begun. I was I had my job, I was working towards my career, I was concentrating on building that up. The romance or the whole honeymoon period of early love was definitely over because I've been together with the guy for years. It felt like I was still in the place where Jesse is in this, maybe not quite as bad as Jesse, to be fair, because he's actually not at all where Jesse is. But in terms of the practicalities of my life, I didn't have kids, but I was definitely where Jesse was. And so watching this was like, oh, cool, yeah. He's talking about, you know, the the sort of the mundane everyday. He's he's in a mundane every day, paying the bills, making life work, on the treadmill is what he's at. Because he's he's meant to be about 30 here, she's meant to be 30. One, 32, something like that. And it felt like it hit me in the right place again, which is just coincidence about when I happened to watch it. It hit me in the right place again. So, whereas the first one, it's all their chat about their idealistic plans for the future and these big dreams they've got, which I felt like I had when I was 19 when I watched it. Now it's like, oh yeah, well, those are obviously not realistic, so now let's be a bit more realistic. And it felt much more real life to me, much more this is where you are when you're in a relationship, or when you are in your for me, mid-20s and their like 30s. That sort of mundanity and that the romance rose-tinted glow of love isn't there anymore because real life's kicked in. But that's not maybe necessarily amazing, and every you don't feel amazing all the time. And I love the difference between the two because it feels like that's the real life difference in those nine years for everybody. So that's why I love it. And I think that's what people think is kind of more realistic. I think that's the vibe. It's more realistic, it's more emotionally rings true. But what I like as well is so it starts. I mean, first of all, I just like the fact that we find out what happened. I mean, there is an element of closure about that first film. We find out whether or not they met six months later, and they didn't. And we find out why, which is like so sad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I thought, but it was just a pretty poor excuse, that one. What? Yeah. I didn't go by it. No, no.
SPEAKER_02They're her granddad, and she couldn't go.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_00I just didn't like that. Didn't like that as a plot point.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00The fair the first.
SPEAKER_02Why didn't you hang on, hang on, hang on. Why didn't you like it? It just feels really like realistic. And she's not gonna be able to go and fly out, get a train to Vienna when she has to be at a nan's funeral in Budapest. It's just really bad timing. That that could happen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I get that. But it just didn't feel right. I don't know. Something when I was watching it, and I'm and obviously we're watching this, not just to wash over us and be a nice film, we're watching this from a critical point of view. And I was just like, I don't know, it was delivery of how it was said or or what it just didn't work for me. I really liked how I I like the fact that he actually went.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I like how he said he didn't go when she he when he found well, well, he knew she didn't go because he was there. I like how he pretended he hadn't gone as well. So we both thought, oh okay, that's cool, oh thank goodness. And then she's like, hang on, I had a good excuse. Why didn't you go? Yeah, yeah. And that was quite good. That was quite good. I just thought, but what I like about this film is you start off where it is just how have you been, what what you're doing for a job, how's life, you know, and it's all very, oh well, not bad to work for this place, do this, blah blah blah. It's all that. And then, like you say, it's only 80 minutes, but it does take a little bit of time. I actually made a note, 42 minutes. So you're halfway through before they reference that he's married with a kid. Yeah. And she knows that because she's seen it in a bio for his author stuff. So it's only really halfway through that actual real life, not just the let's talk about how we are. Oh, do you remember when we said this? Oh, what you what you think about this? It's halfway through before actual the real life situation kicks in, and we find out she's seeing a war photographer who's never there, which suits her, which I can completely understand. I do think that's really funny when she's like, that that's how it works, because he's not there. And then we kind of descend into they could they can break through the niceties and the sort of the appropriateness, and then they both basically share that they're really unhappy in their own situation. Yes, yes, and I just I I think in that it's a brief time period and it's a constant conversation, it's all sort of meant to be, it is in real time. It wasn't filmed in real time, but it's shown to be in real time. This conversation doesn't stop, but it starts from being, Hey, oh my god, this is so weird. How are you doing? Oh, what you know, what's going on with you? And it becomes like, I am so unhappy. And ultimately they never got over each other. Yeah, okay. And it's still it's so no, don't don't just rush it, no, just linger with that moment. It's it's so beautiful. The honesty that you you can't just you can't be honest straight away. It takes a real long, in-depth chat with someone who has only ever known you from in this perfect little bubble of time. It takes a real in-depth chat to even maybe uh say to yourself the things you're feeling. Maybe Jesse's never actually openly expressed that he's not happy in his marriage. You know, he's sort of joking about, oh, it's a great line. I feel like I'm running a small nursery with someone I used to date. Yeah, that's a great line.
SPEAKER_00And I feel like that was quite good.
SPEAKER_02Quite a lot of early parenting, I'm guessing, when you're just like sleepless and just getting on with stuff and everything. And she's just with this guy, but she's just never got over him because every single person since she's like given part of herself, and it's too s it's too painful. I just think the conversation is so beautiful and so honest and so sort of in-depth, and it reaches a sort of a logical conclusion at the end, in that they're only gonna be happy if they see a way to be together, and it's still ambiguous, a little bit ambiguous.
SPEAKER_00It is very ambiguous. You think? Okay. Yeah, because the line is you're gonna miss your train.
SPEAKER_02No, no, it's not like that. Is not the line. Is that the solo baby? Baby, you're gonna miss that plane.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Plane. Um, yeah, it's just make you misquote. Um, yeah, but I like how it is ambiguous, but it's not that ambiguous. No, I'm just gonna he's gonna choose to miss the plane. The plane that he's making. Ah, that's a smile. The plane that he we have been counting down. Like, how long have I got? You've got like an hour. Great, okay. Have we got still got time? Oh, we haven't got time for that. Yeah, we have got some time. Time is mentioned all the way through this film. To the point where it's almost uh maybe some people don't feel like this, but I'm quite I have to be the line is in my family, if you're early, you're on time. Yeah. Right? You have to be on time. Yeah, I'm always on time.
SPEAKER_00And you are that person or you're not, and I am all right.
SPEAKER_02And I am the person that you make you set off far too early to get there before you have to be there, so you're definitely on time. So this whole how long have we got? Oh, I've got some time, all that constant countdown to this plane that he's got to get to, it's quite makes me feel quite anxious. Because I'm a bit like not like so stressed, I can't watch it, but it I'm aware that I'm aware of the time. I'm aware that this is this clock is ticking all the way through. But then it it ticks and ticks and ticks until they get to Sicily and apartment at the end, and then all the time in the world, everything slows down, she sings a song, she makes a cup of tea, she puts on a CD, you know, all of the kind of how long have we got, oh, we'll be fine. If we walk down here, it'll be okay. If I'll get my driver to pick me up there, blah de blah. Once they're in that apartment, it's like it opens up, and he's like, Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you can just see it's more comfortable there. You know me, we've discussed this numerous times. I hate ambiguous endings.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm not a fan, not a fan of everything. It's not that ambiguous. No, I'm not talking about this film, I'm not talking about the first film. Okay. Right. I I feel like this film doesn't make the first film as good as what it is by adding this to it.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Right.
SPEAKER_00I like the ambiguity of the first film where you're making up the story in your head after what's happened. Right. This is like the pressure setting where nothing works as what we'd hoped, you know.
SPEAKER_02What had you hoped? What had you hoped?
SPEAKER_00That they did meet in in six months and they're.
SPEAKER_02But didn't you say when we talked about you didn't think they were gonna meet? And I said I thought they would.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so you still wanted them to.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you co of course you wanted them to. They had they had the perfect moment in time. This film doesn't go anywhere, right? The conversation everywhere, right? For me, the conversation in this film, it's nowhere near as good as the first film, right? The first film, I like they talked about the life, I like that they talked about the music taste, I like that they talked about this. Like they talked about and they had a disagreement with you know the fortune teller. I liked I loved all those little moments in this where this is just like, oh yeah, life's a bit crap, life's a bit crap.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's no, it doesn't start like that, it starts where everything's cool, yeah, everything's fine. He's got his book, and she's got an environmental work, and he's impressed with that, and she's like talked about the book. And I don't think they talk about sex as much as you think that I think you're obsessed with sex. You are. I'm not obsessed. I don't think you talk about it that much. They talk about it a bit.
SPEAKER_00No, it's mentioned quite a bit throughout the film.
SPEAKER_02It's it doesn't stand out to me. It does that doesn't stand out to me. I think it's part of everything. They're talking about everything, and you'll say it doesn't go anywhere. It goes from a sort of friendly, oh my goodness, it's so good to see you. How's life? to I may well be not getting on a plane, which means I'm leaving my wife and kid. That's how it goes.
SPEAKER_00The first the first film is that you've met a stranger and they've had this most magical moment in time that they'll never ever get again, right?
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_00But this film was just like, let's reminisce about that moment that we had in time, and we'll just chat about it, and then I don't get on my plane.
SPEAKER_02That's and that's kind of you or I feel you've missed out on so much.
SPEAKER_00No, not not at all. It's just my paper. And I can't so I have seen the next one, and I literally can yeah, literally cannot remember it. Okay. But I couldn't remember this till the bookshop scene. I was like, oh yeah. I also think Jesse doesn't look half as cool as he did. I like so when like there is flashbacks in this film to when um the first film and his hair looked much better and stuff.
SPEAKER_02That's that's right. I'd swear to God, you're you're acting like that was not a choice. He's in the first film, he's meant to be what 21 or something, 22, whatever he is. And then now he's like a harassed dad of a toddler with a failing marriage, and he's on a punishing book schedule.
SPEAKER_00Of course he looks not as good. Twelve um 12 bookshops he visited, wasn't it, across Europe? Something like that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But I just feel like, yeah, of course. He's definitely changed. He looks haggard, he looks shattered, he looks like life has thrown him kind of not all the things he wanted. And then he kind of, as the conversation gets a little bit deeper, basically then he got married because she was pregnant. And you know, they've been on and off for ages. It wasn't like it's got to see how he's not in a great place and he's sort of making the best of it. And he talks about, but my son, you know, he's brilliant, and he it's all about his son. So he's carrying this sort of weight with him. So of course he looks like when he's like knight of 2021. Oh my god, the whole of the world is out there for him to, you know, he's got all these big dreams of being brilliant and doing great things and you know, being this great man. And like everybody that's well, maybe not everybody, but that's the kind of you know, we all have idealistic dreams. And now he is the living proof that okay, they didn't quite work out, but I'm making the best of it, I'm doing okay. And then he meets the woman who knew him then, who saw him, who saw him for the first time, and it throws him for a loop, as it does her. Because they never got over each other, and maybe they are soulmates.
SPEAKER_00Well, they obviously are soulmates because they made the third film, but yeah, I just like like I say, it's just my opinion. I feel like you know, you're always the person who says to me, films don't need sequels. If it's a good story, if it's a good story, it stands up on its own. And I feel like that about the first film. And the first film is a much, much better film than this film. And I'm I'm shocked when you said at the beginning that people consider this to be The Empire Strikes Back of the No, they never mention those two films in the same mouth, so is it no?
SPEAKER_02It's it's considered to be the stronger of the two, even though everyone loves the first. Um do you but I do think it's like take away take away sort of the fact that it's Selena Jesse more invested in them. Do you not think it's kind of a nice way to explore? You know, everyone's got the one that got away, and like if you met up with them years later, do you not think that's a cool like thread to explore?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it is, it is, but it just takes away that little bit of your own story that you made up for nine years after they had had they met, had they not met at six months later, wonder what they're doing, would they in love, would he this, would they that? And this is just telling you down a path. I'll be interested to see the next one to see if it bookends it well enough for me, whether it improves this middle section. Because every story has a uh begin, the middle, and an end. Yeah, so we've seen the beginning now. We'll just watch the middle and see how the end was.
SPEAKER_02What I don't know is whether or not I don't think this was ever planned as a trilogy. I think the first film was made, and then after that they thought, I mean, like I say, years later, no one knew this was coming for a long time. So I don't know if after when they were doing the second one, they knew they were gonna do a third one. I don't know. I don't think that's true. I think they've just kind of gone with it as the as the years have moved on because.
SPEAKER_00So there could actually be a fourth one or two.
SPEAKER_02There could be. Uh the third one is um also nine years later. So there is always a decent chunk of time between the films. But when so as I keep saying, when the first film came out, no one knew there was gonna be a sequel, and I didn't feel the need for a sequel. Because I never do, and I like in ambiguous ending, we all can think of our own thoughts about what happens. But nine years later, it doesn't feel to me like a sequel. It I mean, it is, I get it, it is a sequel, and this it now is a trilogy, of course, but it didn't feel like it was a sequel, certainly didn't feel like they were cashing in. It just felt like they've got a good story to tell, they've come together, they're gonna make a good story, and to me they did. Um, but yeah, I just don't see I sort of see this differently as I do most films. I usually I usually like them all to be done and dusted in a film, but for me, it was done and dusted in the first film with a great ambiguous ending. But then nine years later, I was more than happy to get to know these characters again. They had more to tell. I did not want to see a sequel six months later where they meet or don't meet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, see, they I didn't think they had a lot to tell. They just they did talk about they talked about the lives and if they weren't happy. I get that, and you know, it's obviously the end scene um hints that they are gonna stay together.
SPEAKER_02Well, who knows? It's it's maybe.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he's gonna miss his plane. Well, it hint hints that he's gonna miss the plane, not the train, the plane.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, well done then.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, it just didn't shift it anywhere.
SPEAKER_02It shifted it everywhere for me.
SPEAKER_00Because I everywhere. Because, as you say, at the end of the first one, you can make the story what you want to realize.
SPEAKER_02Why can you say it didn't shift it when he literally is going to potentially leave his marriage and his child? I mean, he's gonna not obviously give up on his child, he's still seeing his child, but he's gonna break up that initial family that he's deeply unhappy in, and he feels like she's unhappy too, so you know this needs to maybe happen. But that's such a shift from his like at the beginning, hey hi, how are you doing? Oh, yeah, I've been doing this book too. I wrote a book about things, you know. It's such a shift. Just it's and that story's been told to us over 80 minutes in such concise beautiful words. Only 80 minutes.
SPEAKER_00When it ended, I was like, What?
SPEAKER_02How did you feel about Celine singing a song to him? I I'm surprised by my reaction to this because I would normally find that far too cringe and I can't deal. But actually, I think it's really lovely, and it also moves the thing on because we see that she really feels for him that she wrote a song play.
SPEAKER_00So is this you liking a little bit of cheese?
SPEAKER_02It does it.
SPEAKER_00Because it is cheesy.
SPEAKER_02I don't think it comes off as cheesy. But it is cheesy. It could it could do in the wrong hands, but I don't think it does in this. I feel like it's just he's basically written a book about her, right? Which is without even saying anything else, is almost a testament to his absolute love, undying love. Sh she hasn't, and she's a bit like, oh, I didn't really know. You sort of idealised the knight a bit. I don't really know if it was completely true, but you know, it's fiction, whatever. But she has written a song about him. She wrote a pop song. It's a wolves. It's a pop song. But I just I find it really quite sweet, emotional just knowing, and when you watch it now and you know that she's singing it and she's gonna because he picks the song. Yeah. So she doesn't choose to sing that. And then she has to say his name in it, and it's all like, oh my god, you're laying out your heart on your sleeve here.
SPEAKER_00That's obviously the moment where he's gonna write that up saying it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Last time when we talked about the first film, you did not like it when other people came into their bubble, like the fortune teller or the I can't remember, no, it's the street power.
SPEAKER_00So in this isn't like the limo driver.
SPEAKER_02You didn't like that.
unknownThat's what I was gonna ask.
SPEAKER_02How'd you feel the bookshop people or the the the neighborhood?
SPEAKER_00The book the bookshop people, they didn't come into the storyline because that was before they were talking together.
SPEAKER_02And also I think they were all actors as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So that's different. Um, I know that you know when we go to Selene's apartment and she sees her neighbours, yeah. The guy barbecuing is her dad, Julie Delpy's dad. Right. Yeah. So like again, I don't know if he's you movie trivia and be bringing in stuff from Star Wars. I don't know if he's an actor, or whether it's like, oh, your dad'll do that. I don't know. Um, he could be an actor.
SPEAKER_00But when Daughter One is fully film directing, I've told her I want to walk on part. Oh my god. I'll I'll be a delivery guy.
SPEAKER_02And let's hope that she is savvy enough to know that that would not be good for her film. Because you'd just be grinning at the camera as she walked past. Hey mom, I'm on TV. Right. I did find a link between Star Wars, the Empire One, whatever it was before.
SPEAKER_00Empire Shrink's back.
SPEAKER_02I found a link between that and this film.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Okay, so surprise me with this now, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So Yoda says, do or not do, whatever it is. Do you know who I'm doing?
SPEAKER_00Do or do not. There is no try.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Jesse, at the beginning, when he's doing his little speech to the bookstore people, he says, Happiness is in the doing, not in the getting.
SPEAKER_00Right. Kind of similar. Yeah, I did think I did write that down as a line because I thought that was quite good.
SPEAKER_02Because she yeah, she owed her in it. Um, I literally thought that was the like the only link, really. Well, it's probably others if you go deep enough, but I'm not going to. Right, Peter Bradshaw, my mate. This is what you said in 2004. He gave it four stars.
SPEAKER_00Out of five. Okay, not out of ten.
SPEAKER_02Before sub this is a direct quote. Before sunset retains most of what was engaging about the first movie, it has its gentleness, its romanticism, and most importantly, its idealism. What it has lost is its sense of mystery. He was basically saying with the first film, the mystery is will they get together? Will they be at the end? They don't see each other in six months, it's an ambiguous ending, and this he feels like that's not there.
SPEAKER_00See, maybe no. So maybe this is where what I'm feeling about it. You know, and that's put it into better words.
SPEAKER_02Maybe you like an ambiguous ending after all.
SPEAKER_00Maybe I do, maybe.
SPEAKER_02And then Jamie Rabanal wrote cinema from the spectrum.com in 2019. So this was a little while after. There's a lot of joy to be found in the fact that they're able to spend time with one another again. But seeing how much more they've begun to uncover also makes for what could even become something potentially devastating. Before sunset is without doubt one among the all-time greatest sequels, for it still captures that same spirit that you would remember so well from before sunrise, yet also packs a bigger emotional punch than ever, too. And I would agree.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I slightly disagree now. But what I what I was just thinking is how the roles were reversed on this, because I'm the one who doesn't like an ambiguous ending. No. And you do. Love it. And we've had Before Sunrise, where I like the ambiguous ending off and we've just done Return of the G uh The Empire Strikes Back rather with the ambiguous ending and you didn't like it.
SPEAKER_02Another link, kind of, sort of, between these two very random different films. Yeah. Next week, it'll be the second of our between series specials, and we're completing our trilogies. If you want to be up to speed, you'll need to watch Return of the Jedi and before midnight, before then. Looking forward to it?
SPEAKER_00Oh yes. I I'm looking forward to your opinion on Return of the Jedi. Which Yeah, because I will say this is possibly the weekend of the trilogy. Wow. Before we even go into that, because this was done with a little bit more comedy into it. I love the comedy. And it, you know, just there's some really good performances in there. Um you see the conclusion of Luke and Anakin Stroke Darthay the story.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00But they brought in characters to sell toys in this.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't like any of that. That's silly. Um, I'm also looking forward to doing before midnight because I wouldn't say it's a weaker, because weaker the wrong word, but it's the one I don't enjoy as much because it's real life.
SPEAKER_00It's real life with all its problems. So I'm wondering now, out of the trilogies that we've just watched, whether because it was here the Jedi, it's slightly lighter in note in in certain parts, and you're the real life of this one. Well, we might do a role reversal of they could be our favourite of the trilogies.
SPEAKER_02Oh my goodness. All that, that's a cliffhanger for next time.
SPEAKER_00We don't like on vegan segments.
SPEAKER_02Um, okay, so if people want more, where can they find you?
SPEAKER_00Sophia's are us on YouTube.
SPEAKER_02And I'm at NikkiBond.com, or you can look for the Lisa McAuliffe stories online. Thanks for listening, and until the next time, bye-bye.
SPEAKER_00Remember, the force will be with you always. Just stop it.