Six Skills For 2026: 3. Curiosity

You’re not stuck. You’re resisting. Start exploring instead of defending.

In this episode, the third in our six-part series on the critical skills for 2026, we focus on curiosity and why it matters now more than ever. From AI to everyday decisions, the world is shifting fast. The question is not whether change is happening. It is how curious you are willing to be in response to it.

This is not about becoming someone new overnight. It is about recognising the patterns that keep you fixed, defensive, and closed off, then learning how to move through them with intention.

And curiosity is the skill that changes the outcome.

We explore why so many people stay in “expert mode” and how that mindset quietly limits growth, opportunity, and connection. You will hear how resistance shows up in meetings, relationships, and leadership, often disguised as confidence or experience.

And more importantly, what to do about it.

• Why resistance to change is natural, but dangerous if left unchecked
• The shift from expert to explorer and why it matters now more than ever
• How fear, ego, and internal rules quietly block curiosity
• Simple ways to practise curiosity in real conversations and decisions

In your professional and personal life, answers will only take you so far. The real value is in the questions you ask and the ground you are willing to explore.

So the next time you feel yourself shutting down, defending, or rushing to the answer…

Pause.

And ask one more question.

Transcript

Paid To Be A Curious Leader

SPEAKER_00 0:02

So if you tell yourself just for one day or even one meeting that you are being paid to be a professional curious leader. That your curiosity is the thing that's being paid for today. That if you're not curious, then you're not actually doing your job because you are being paid in this meeting, you're being paid to be curious. What do you need to do to make sure at the end of that meeting they say, yeah, he or she did his job? It's a mind game on shifting your identity, not to someone who knows, but to someone who's curious. And that's the game you want to play with your brain. Yeah, so curiosity really does a number of things. So, you know, even before we think about the speed with which the world is changing and AI coming in, it is going to be critical in terms of. Why is curiosity important now? I'm gonna say these words. Oh my goodness, this is terrifying. Hello, my name's Philip Walla. My name is Penelope Waller, and we are two of the directors at 4D Human Being. And welcome to the 4D Human Being podcast. What's it all about, Pen? It's all about your personal and professional relationships, it's about your communication skills, how you lead, how you work and build teams, how you are looking after yourself and your well-being, and how you are much more at choice. What do we mean by that? Well, sometimes we can get a little caught in patents in life, and we can all be a little bit on our automatic pilot. So 40 human being is all about helping us get back to choice and being a four-dimensional human being, and your fourth dimension, of course, is intention. So whether it's about your impact, your leadership style, your team dynamics, whether it's about your well-being, whether it's about your communication or your presentation skills. Anything that involves human beings interacting with other human beings, 4D Human Being are here to help. We're gonna take a deep dive and look at some tools, insights, theories that are gonna help you go from a 3D human doing to a 4D human being so that you can happen to the world rather than the world simply happening to you. We are go. Thunderbirds. I think I'm gonna have to look that up, Phil, because I haven't seen it in such a long time, and it's such a strong cultural reference. Yes, for some of us for some of us. Yeah, nothing's up nothing has superseded it. Yeah. So hello and welcome to episode three. Are we on? Yes, episode three of our six critical skills, Phil. Critical in a good way. In a good way. I'm hydrating today, Phil, as you'll notice. Very good. Have we even got our hydrating tablet in here? I've been told it's the thing to do, so yeah. Well, maybe that is one of the critical skills for 2026. So today we're talking about, so let's do our route map because today we're talking about curiosity. We have talked about accountability. Yes, tick, creativity. Tick. Tick. We're now gonna move on to curiosity, our third skill that we're looking at. And curiosity is, of course, definitely related to creative thinking. It's sort of the primal state, isn't it? Yeah. So let's think about what what we mean by curiosity, why it's important generally, why it's particularly important 2026 AI technology, and how can we become more curious? And also in a way that isn't just meandering, yeah, randomness, and just general asking questions and never doing. Like, although plenty of space for that. But I think that might be the worry for some people is well, it takes a lot of time. What am I getting curious about? Where does that start? Just be quiet.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Yeah, just like confirm.

From Nosy To Real Presence

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Pipe down, pipe down with your questions, yeah. Pipe down with your questions, and and also it's also it's turtles all the way down, isn't it? Why, why, why? Like we can ask that endlessly. Yeah. Can I can I refer back to your comment earlier about it's it's the primal state? And it makes me think about how we have survived and how we have operated as human beings, and that probably fundamentally, I mean, aside from survival, alongside that curiosity is the primal state, really, in terms of understanding the environment, survival, etc. But when I think about the modern day primal state, I don't know if that still holds. Well, what a what a great intro to this notion of curiosity in a really, I want to say tough time, but actually let's just say time of change, because everyone's gonna be having a different experience of this, aren't they? Like, no, it's not tough for everyone. For some people it's exciting or or shoulder shruggy. If we didn't fire up our curiosity, or at least some of us didn't, then presumably we'd either still be sitting in a cave or we'd still be fish. Like, and and we wouldn't even be fish, would we? Because even at an un even at an unconscious level, the amoeba that, or the, you know, whatever that spark was, and then that first sort of single cell being. Yes, at whatever level of consciousness that was. Yeah, whatever level of that, I mean that wasn't that single cell wasn't thinking, ah, I might take a look up, I might take a look above, you know, well not even above the water, because I mean water was single cell, but you know, I I might I might expand or I might take a look at what's out there. Like not thinking like that. Ooh, oh I'd love to be a fish. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna work out how to become a fish, exactly. Or, you know, or this terrain's not working for me anymore. I need to I need to rethink. But on some level, that single-cell amoeba has a compulsion to not stay static. And we're sort of talking, we're back to the idea of creativity. But but there must let's get a little bit existential and deep here. You could argue that the primal energy that drives our creativity, you could call it curiosity. I mean blind curiosity at some level, but something, big bang, we're back to that, something is pushing us forward. And if we don't, if we block that, it's not even if we don't use it, it's if we block it, because it's there, or else we wouldn't be here. But if we block it with fear or I think most of us can relate to the experience of frozen, tense terror in our bodies, like the stomach or chest sort of freezing, and that's the sort of almost like the stop mechanism. Yeah, and if we can release ourselves, we can release and breathe and move. I'm gonna argue that's gonna that's going to manifest in curiosity, yes, and I I would I would sort of build on that point about the block and that's what I think. We've got very deep, very quick here. Yeah, well that you know, that block and that fear, I mean, it can be sort of literal in terms of the unknown or I'm frightened of something. Oh, hello, Humphrey. He's curious, he was like, what's going on? He's very curious, dog. Frightened. He's found he's found his terrain. Um and I would also say, even if we're not in a state of fear because that we feel there's something dangerous out there, do you know what really resonates with me around that block is the feeling that there are some rules out there in society that we're not allowed to do certain things. I remember being on holiday with you. Uh it was the first time we went to Thailand, it was a long time ago. We were like in our twenties, Phil. Yeah. And I remember you saying, we were in this sort of hotel resort, and I remember you saying, let's go and have a walk down here and go and have a look at something. And I can remember thinking, I mean, I wasn't frightened of the terrain per se, but I can remember saying to you, Oh, I'm not sure we're allowed down there, Phil. Oh, you were like, Come on, trot on, Penn. And it yeah, and we we discovered a different part of the hotel, etc. So I do, I do think sometimes we create an internal set of rules that that we can and can't do, and that can be a real blocker to curiosity, as well as that sort of primal fear. So we have to really watch out for that because as you say, we're then static in the in the what we know rather than. I had a similar experience in Greece some years ago, where there was a fence around a shrine, an old an ancient shrine, and I was looking at that, going, Oh, I really want to go and have a look at that. And the person I was with was like, Oh, there's a fence, we're not allowed. And I was like, that fence is not actually a barrier. I mean, we can climb the fence, and you know, it's not to do any damage, but it's like, what is that? You know, to go and have a look. Yeah. Um, so you're right, it's checking that Schultz Netflix series, Jonah, is it Jonah Hill and his psychiatrist, psychotherapist Schultz? It's such a nice documentary, and he has models that he uses to help you understand different parts of your stuff. And he calls this part part X, the part that goes, oh no, oh no, don't do that, no, no, no, stop that. And what's so useful about giving it a name, whatever you want to give it, you know, your fearful self, your blocking self, your inner critic, whatever it is you want to call it, it's really useful to turn it into an object so that when those moments come up, you can recognise it and say, oh look, part X is here to say, don't ask any questions, don't step forward. And you go, oh, you know, pop yourself down on a C, you know, again, it's that sort of in the in the bus of our many parts. Pop yourself down, have a chocolate biscuit. I'm gonna take a step. I'm gonna take a step forward, which reminds me of the Maslow quote, you know, in every moment of our lives we have the choice to step back into safety or forward into growth. And this is what we're really talking about here. Totally, totally, and we'll we'll get it, we'll get into it. And the other thing I would say, Phil, is that I mean, you know it's such a big thing in in our system at 4D curiosity. It just makes it just makes interactions with people so much more interesting. I I can't believe I'm saying this because I'm not really surprised, and yet I am. I'm still flabbergasted at how uncurious people are. I mean, the dinner party of death the dinner party of death when the person next to you doesn't ask you a scene, dinner party of uncuriosity. It's yeah. And I'm sure obviously that's not, you know, obviously it's not everybody, but but I'm sure some listeners can recognise that they've been to those events or parties and they've come away and they haven't been asked a question. Or they certainly, and this is we're gonna come to this, they certainly haven't been asked the second or third question. You get you might get asked the initial one, like, oh, where do you work? And then you say, Oh right, and that's it. And there's something about curiosity which is it's not, we're not done at the question. We're we're we're just we're just opening the door at that point. Actually, I actually, Phil, I think it's even worse. When somebody asks you a question and you give them an answer and they kind of go, oh right. Anyway, it's like not only was I not interested, but you're you're it you're totally done. I don't I haven't even got the energy to follow that up. In fact, I sort of wish you hadn't said it really because it's it's left me, it's left me cold. It's sort of it sort of killed me. Right, okay, let's talk about what cu let's talk about what what what curiosity is. And in a way, you know, it's sort of super obvious, you know, what do we what do we even mean by it? And and it's not well, is it just being nosy? It can be quite good, can't it, being nosy. I mean, I I I remember when I was training as a psychotherapist, various sort of tutors and definitely my therapist said you've you've just got to start finding yourself and other people fascinating. And it was the same as an actor. If you're sitting on a bus as an actor and you're not looking at how people are behaving, sitting, moving, facial expressions, talking on the phone. Like if you're not really curious, you're not really filling up your bank. Yeah. And I don't mind a bit of nosiness, Phil, I have to say. I think there's a sort of it's a sort of grey-shaded scale, isn't it, between curiosity and it's and intrusiveness. And it well, exactly, if it gets to intrusiveness, fine. But I really admire the neighbours on my street who know each other, know who's in whose family, what people do. I really admire that. I've been living in this house for eight years. I could count on one hand, the number of people on there. So maybe your personal. Because you're very curious in your professional life, so maybe your personal. What's do you know what's going on? I think I travel, I think I travel a lot, and it's not that I don't know people. It's just that because it's quite a well-established street, everybody assumes everybody knows everyone's names and where they live. And because I've been here for eight years, I do know people's faces and I chat and I say hello, but it's too late now to say something. Yeah, like, well, who are you and what do you like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've part, yeah, you've part your your your moments pass. It's like with names. If you haven't found out the name initially, day two, it's too late. Especially if they know yours. But you know what's you know what comes up for me around that is that is that in a community, as in in a business or in a in a market or in a particular field of business, if you're curious about people or things or situations, you're much quicker to find a solution, solve a problem, or give somebody something that they want. Like if you're curious about your neighbour's patterns and you suddenly realize, oh, they're not, they're usually, they're usually walking down the road on a Tuesday. You're much nearer finding out that they've just come out of hospital and might need a lasagna. You know, you're you're you're much more in contact with the with the solution. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so curiosity is yes, asking questions. I'm not sure you can be curious unless you give it space. Because if we're all just constantly doing and frenetic and assuming what's in front of us at that kind of pace of assumption and action, then there's not really any space. So I think curiosity it needs presence. Totally. And it needs stopping, it needs a little bit of space and it needs questions. Totally, and it also needs awareness in terms of the people and the space around you. Another, another set of people that I'm I really admire, because it is unfortunately too far from what I I tend to do by default, are you know what I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say, like spies who obviously, Pam.

unknown 15:17

Obviously.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

It's my missed profession, my missed calling. You know, they walk into a space or they're in a town in the somewhere in the world doing some amazing mission. Oh my goodness, they know their terrain, they know the environment, they s they see, you know, who's moving, who walks into the room. Like that observation and awareness, I find it absolutely fascinating. I'm gonna I'm gonna pull on a th two threads here. One is if it helps you to think of yourself as a global international spy to fire up your curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

You know it does, you know it does.

Expert To Explorer In AI

System One Ego And Fear

What Research Says About Curiosity

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Pretend you're a spy every day, do that. But the set the second thing is, again, we go back to the survival thing. If we're thinking about moving into a new era, stepping into unknown terrain that we don't know, think about the spy. When they walk into that hotel room or that building, they've already got curious about where are the exits, what are the routes here, where are the fire doors, because they're going to be safer and have more chance of survival when they think like that. So it's you know, we can always pull those threads. So, okay. Why is curiosity important now? I'm gonna say these words. We are shifting from expert to explorer. Now, why? What do I mean by that? Because AI is automating the knowing layer of life, of experience, of interactions. Did you just come up with that alliteration now, Phil? No, I hadn't thought about that. Perfect! I had thought about that. I'm using that, Crikey, that is brilliant. Well, also, this is not as good, but I quite like it. You've got to move from someone who knows to someone who noses not quite as good, but get nosy. Anyway, the point being, point being, we what what AI can do is answer questions. What it can't do as well is ask the new questions. Yes. It can it it so it really is, we've talked about this in the creativity, I think. It really is taking that layer of having information, facts, and data and knowing. It's taking the role of expert. Now, it's not the perfect expert, it's going to get better and better at being an expert because it's gonna constantly be feeding, feeding, feeding, feeding on itself and information we give it. But it's not gonna be an explorer in the way that we can be. It can't ask the unthought question. Yeah, it can't see the things that you're seeing in the world. Yes, it's got data, so it might be, you know, AI can track delivery lorries and it can pick up data, of course, where it stops, but it can't sense the mood or the nuance of the driver or the conversation that they have. Like there's so much about how we experience the world that firstly is going to become more and more important because if we just live in a data-driven world, we're all going to have a massive existential crisis, and it cannot do that bit. It can't get curious in the same way that the human experience, and therefore, what we might need, what we might want, what might be a great market opportunity in business, what might be a great way to work together, how your team's feeling, what's going to help them flourish. It can put some of that in, but it's in no way gonna ask the kind of questions that you can ask. And it's also, like you said, Phyllis, it's the relational piece, isn't it? Which, you know, consumption, business, collaboration, all of these things, I mean, there is inevitably a relational aspect to it. And of course, AI will make assumptions. I mean, and again, I'm sure it will get better and there'll be different ways you can program your AI. But if I think about my interactions with AI, which I really enjoy, partly because they're trying it's trying to please me, it's trying to tell me what I think I want to know. It's not asking me questions about kind of what what do I mean or how do I feel or what do I want. It's it's trying to give me the thing it thinks I want based on the assumptions it's making. It's trying to colour, it's trying to colour in the lines. Yes. And of course, as human beings, whether it's subconscious or conscious, we have a curiosity around other people, the interactions that we're having, and how people are feeling and what they might need, that AI, at least for now, does not have. In fact, sort of the opposite, it sort of wants to lock down what it thinks you want as quickly as possible. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So we can say that the value of professional knowledge is collapsing, and that's quite a statement. And that the most important professional skill now, at the probably at the foundation, it's interesting, we you know, maybe we could have started with curiosity because the m one of the most valuable professional skills now is asking better questions. Yeah, so or just asking questions, or just asking questions, and it's a genuine desire to not just understand but emotionally feel and sense kind of what's happening here, what might be different, what could be different. It's a behaviour asking specific questions, it's a mindset, so it's a mindset of the belief that there's it's valuable to explore something else that not knowing is my starting point rather than knowing. So that's the mindset. What if I don't know about this? And that brings in all the idea of assumptions, which we'll come on. So it's a mindset, it's behaviours every day. Secondly, it's asking questions, getting curious, literally stepping forward, um, speaking up in that meeting, challenging something. And thirdly, it's a practice. This isn't about just once, this is about really shaping a new way of being. I know someone who shaped a career based on asking questions. I mean, literally, yeah they were they were kind of known, they were very senior executive, and they were kind of known that that was what they did in meetings. I mean, they were incredibly successful, and actually, I mean, in some ways, I was gonna say it's kind of easier to ask a question. It's not always easy to ask the right question, but in a way it kind of takes the pressure off us a bit that we think we always have to go in with. Absolutely. It's much more interesting to go in with a good question, and he did brilliantly. Well, also the gift, I mean, uh you know, you have this sometimes in coaching or therapy. Sometimes people will actually verbalize it because you stop them. You know, we're asking questions a lot, but sometimes you stop people in their tracks and they'll actually they'll be you can see they've been physically and emotionally impacted, and they say, God, that's a good question. Because they've never thought of it. And it and that kind of question has a really different impact. And it's a it's a it's an interesting point around the type of questions and shaping the conversation. There's a big difference between information gathering. Can you tell me how many of these, you know, how many clients have we got on the books at the moment? Or can you give me the can you tell me the timeline? This is information gathering, which is very different from what would it look like if? Yeah. What would what would completely change if we did it like this? What would so-and-so think about this? Like these are very different questions that aren't that are much more right-brained, as we would say, rather than information gathering. So that feels important to differentiate between information gathering and questions that are kind of doing that much sort of broader or specific. What one thing would completely transform this experience for our customers? The other thing I would say, Phil, sort of pulling it back to a more sort of existential experiential level, before we dive into some of the details around why this is going to be useful, some stats around it and some tips and tools, is I think as we get as we move through life, you know, we go through different stages of development as human beings, and there's been lots of research done as well, and people are on their deathbeds and things they get asked. I I think we kind of realise, perhaps a little too late in life, that really the only important thing is interactions with other people and getting to know other people. Yeah. Yeah. And I think what we once we understand that you can see that curiosity is really the one of the only things you need in life. So it's so foundational, I totally agree. Now, some people have a natural predisposition to curiosity, and it can also be a practice. So if you find yourself saying, Well, I'm just not very curious, really, um, that is, I'm afraid, a choice. Yes, it might be based on that you have you don't have a natural predisposition to be very curious. You can practice it like anything. So I just want to kind of blow that one out of the water to start with. That you'll know people who are just naturally curious. That's just how they are, always wanting to know more. Um, some uh fab Andrew Laura, who do our fabulous podcast. Um, I hope it's alright to say, Andrew Laura, their son is just is curious off the charts from morning till night. He's waking up, he's asking questions once the night, and it's just it's so natural, like it's so in him. It's who it's who he is, and just incredible. And you might not be like that, but you can practice it, and you can practice it. So I just want to kind of say that now. You do not need to feel curious all the time. Sometimes you might think, you know what, I really don't care, I'm going home. But it's it's but but it but it's recognising if you're always doing that, because we are we are moving into an economy and a and a and a place where your expert knowledge of what you already know, you know, that feeling of, well, you know, especially if you're a bit older, well, you know, I've had my career, I've worked hard enough, I've got all the information that I need, I can kind of roll now. That's a dangerous place to be now, I would offer, because that is gonna probably last you another 12 to 24 months. Yeah, and there is a danger, um, both in terms of, as you say, your career and what's now gonna be needed. The other thing I would say about curiosity is if if you don't practice the habit of being curious, it's it's going to suggest that not only are you not as curious as you could be about other people, the world around you, what's possible, it also does suggest you're perhaps not as curious as you could be about yourself. And of course, that is fundamental in terms of our development, how we sort of progress and how we learn things. Uh, but also relationally, I think if you're not curious about yourself, you can get really blocked and stuck in terms of having good, healthy relations. So it's both, it can be both a self-reflected curiosity as well as a sort of uh external curiosity. Well, also you're gonna you're it it you're gonna lack self-awareness, yeah. Which you're right, both in relationship and in terms of the massive changes coming and opportunities, it's gonna be a real blocker because if you're in a place of well, that's just how I am, or I'm just angry with that and I'm not prepared to look or get curious about why, you're just stuck. You're stuck in that relationship, you're stuck in that dynamic, and you'll also be stuck in the place you are in your career or your profession or whatever it might be, because all you can then do is defend the territory that you've already got. There's no expansion. You can only feel threatened by not knowing, or threatened by there might be another way, like in a relationship. If we're threatened that someone else might have an opinion or a rational reason for doing that, if we're threatened by that, then we're just gonna fight our territory. And so it's it the there's a real parallel there, you're right, with how we are with ourselves, how we are in relationship, and then how we're gonna be in the market, professional, yeah, in opportunities that come up. So it's a real practice around, I don't know, and I'm excited to find out. If you can print that t-shirt, yes, that's gonna serve you really well. Yeah, so curiosity really does a number of things. So, you know, even before we think about the speed with which the world is changing and AI coming in, it is going to be critical in terms of reducing your fear and resistance. It's gonna really help you be much more future focused. It's really, really helpful in times of ambiguity and uncertainty because the desire to know, lockdown, and control is going to be less helpful than getting curious about what's unfolding. It's really helpful as we said as well. You know, think of the dinner party. It's really helpful to keep people engaged. Um, the opposite of curiosity is going to be, you know, a disaster in terms of keeping people engaged. It can also help to serve his problems. You know, I'm sure we've all been in projects and meetings where we all kind of know something's not quite right, no one's prepared to ask the question, or let's just let's just sort of fudge it over and make it make it all right, and then we know that the problem hasn't been sort of flagged and raised. And it really helps to bring people with you. If people feel like they're invested, if they've asked a question, if they've been involved in something, they're much more likely to come along with it rather than if they've just been told this is this is how it is. So it can do so many things around the workplace, aside from, as you said, for your own development and your own opportunities. So it's a great thing to think about. The list goes on and on, and I just want to give you give people a little, not even little, a um touch in on Daniel Kahneman's system one and system two brain, because we can either we might feel like we're just lazy, or, andor we might then start beating ourselves up for that. And let's raise our awareness on that because it's okay, we all do it, and partly because that is just biology. So this is partly you and I saying we need to override that very strong system one that just wants to keep doing things in the way that it's always known because that's more efficient. Our lazy brain good but lazy brain, yeah, safer. So it's what part it's what we've evolved to do. And in times of change, in the evolution of consciousness, in when the food's run out somewhere else, it's firing up system two, or if your road is blocked to your gym or to you know the school, you have to fire up system two to find a new way to get curious about another an alternative, like an alternative source of food. And if we don't do that, it's over. Either the child's not going to school, we're not going to the gym, or we don't find another source of food and our tribe dies out. So give yourself a break if you feel like oh, because that is that's not just you as a person, that's your system one going, I want to make it easy, and that's okay. We are in a stage of life where the kind of the food is running out over there in terms of expert knowledge and just being really good at regurgitating facts. So if it feels a bit like, oh, I can't be bothered, I don't want to, again, we can call it part X, as I mentioned about the Schultz documentary on Netflix, or you can call it, you know, system one, going, Oh, do I have to make more of an effort? Yes, you do. It's it's it, you know, and and and there's something about us just all acknowledging kind of collectively that if the food starts running out, we have to make more of an effort and go to a different shop or go, you know, find a different source of food. And that is where we are. So it's okay if you have the feeling of, oh, but it's an effort. Yes, it is, and it's it's it's essential and it will pay off. So we've got to fire up system too. Adaptation, Phil, if we don't, if we don't exist, exactly. You know, it's the it's the Darwin. So we can tie this in very quickly. Just want to tie this in with the ego, that our ego goes, oh, but I do things my way, this is how I know it, and we want to defend it, and it feels completely justified and it feels safe. And it's that energy, weirdly, there's a paradox, isn't there? Because then we start putting energy towards defending where we are, I'll be all right. Oh, it's all nonsense. Oh, this rubbish AI stuff, oh, this change, all this get curious, oh, it's just ridiculous. I've been in it, I've been doing this for 30 years, I'll be fine, and it's all nonsense. And these people, they shouldn't all. I mean, we can go on and on and on with the ego, we'll start defending it, shouldn't be changing, or I shouldn't have to change, or I won't have to change, it'll be alright for me. And that is our current ego state, sense of identity, defending until the death, and it might actually be that if we if we don't change. And we talk about with the ego when we go into defense. Well, this is how I think we should do it. I don't, we haven't got time to ask any more questions. That we're in defense, we're in fear, and again, this is the time to go into curiosity. So notice when you feel like almost your fortress is closing around you, and you really want to fight for things to be your way or to stay. And that is totally understandable. We have to notice those moments. Yes. Be able to take a breath and say, I know this feels risky, I know this feels frightening. Just ask one question. It only has to be a small practice to start with. We don't have to go into being a completely different person. Just take that first step. I know I just want to, I know I just want to sign this contract and you know, finish this project or seal it up. I know that's what I want to do. And there's a little voice in my head saying, Have you checked this? Is this future-proof? Listen to that voice. Even though a big part of you wants to go, oh, do you know what? I just want to get it done. I mean, we've got a whole political issue over here in the UK at the moment with just wanting to get the process done. Yeah. Curiosity would have been very helpful in that political issue. Let me just check a couple of things. You know, it's worth it. It's worth it. Well, it's the well, it's the it's the big ego release, Phil, isn't it? I mean, it does, it does so many things because it's so it's so it counters that need to stay the same, block, lock down, be right, have things your way. It's completely contrary to that because it's it's almost like you have if you can release from that and just look at someone else or look at the world around you and ask a question, it will it ultimately, if you can habit build around that, it will release you of the ego. And the ego is probably one of the things that causes us the most pain in our life. Well, you know, you know what we we we often say to people at the beginning of a programme, a leadership program, how many of you think of yourselves as professional communicators? And it's a real, it's a real shift in identity. Because people and people say, no, I'm a you know, a project lead or I'm a VP or you know, whatever their job title is, or I, you know, I head up the European sector of X, Y, or Z. And then you ask them, well, what do you spend most of your time doing? And then they'll say, Well, communicating, whether it's on email or phone or video. So you go, so so and and and this is a really similar moment. If you if you tell yourself just for one day or even one meeting, that you are being paid to be a professional curious leader, that your curiosity is the thing that's being paid for today. That if you if you're not fair, isn't that nice? That if you're not curious, then you're not actually doing your job because you are being paid in this meeting, you're being paid to be curious. What would you do? If at the end of that meeting, an a one-hour meeting, everybody else in that meeting got together and said, Did Bob bring value for money there? Did we do the right thing to pay Bob to be curious? If you're gonna be valued or judged on your curiosity, what do you need to do to make sure at the end of that meeting they say, yeah, he or she did his job? It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because it's it is it's a it's a mind game on shifting your identity, not to someone who knows, but to someone who's curious. And that's the game you want to play with your brain. Yeah, totally, totally. So there might be some uh sort of facts and stats around this in terms of uh curiosity. It's a relatively, I would say a relatively under-researched area, and it's one of our favourite topics, Phil. So um there's a bit of a shame around that, but you know, it's it's possibly a relatively difficult concept to get hold of, and also perhaps has not been as prioritised as it could have been, and we'll see that come through in some of the stats. So um the most famous piece of work around this is um in the Harvard Business Review from Francesca Gino, this is about uh eight years ago, uh, where people were asked about curiosity in the workplace. 3,000 people participated in this research. 92% of respondents viewed curiosity as a key catalyst for job satisfaction, motivation, innovation, and high performance, but only around 24% reported feeling curious on a regular basis. Now there is a big disconnect there. And and on top of that, about 70% said they face barriers, barriers at work to being curious and asking questions. So there is a block in terms of how people are actually feeling, and there is a block culturally in terms of what is being encouraged versus what people believe and understand is important in terms of their performance and um and satisfaction. So there we go. That is that is the key one. There are lots of other uh pieces of research out there. Similar findings, Phil. Yeah, what it's interesting is that the blockers, to ask yourself A, if they are internal or external, is that an internal blocker?

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Yeah.

Tools To Practise Better Questions

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Or people will think I'm stupid if I ask this question, or is that an external blocker where you know the boss has said to you, I don't want any questions or curiosity in this meeting. Get to the get to the solution. Yeah, I mean, you know, the probably the main internal blocker uh would be cited as we are quite conditioned as human beings to to know the answer to things. It's kind of what's valued when we're at school. So if somebody, if you're in a meeting, your internal system will possibly be defaulting to thinking, I need to already have the answer. Like I'm not, I could I can't ask a question because I need to have the answer. And then externally, um, possibly some blockers that exist out there are time, perception that uh this is going to sort of delay things or it's gonna mean that we're gonna spend too much time and there's gonna be too much information. Um, and it can also be other people again with their expectations on what we should know, what we shouldn't do. So I mean, this makes me go, this makes me go really meta. I said at the beginning, you know, don't stop at the first question, you know, go to the second and third. And there's another which which is a way of thinking about asking questions to keep take another step down the curiosity path. And there's also another way to think about it, which is pulling back and out, which you often talk about when we're in, um if we're taking client brief, sometimes we say, can we we let's pull back here, we need to pull out. And to get really meta about it, then if you feel like you're being pushed in terms of time and to get to the to get to the solution, to get to the end, to get to the contract, to get to the delivery, whatever it is, get clever with your questions because a kind of curious and yet kind of poking question might be something like: can I just ask if we push the time quickly, if we push this timeline, and then we find ourselves in a place where we've missed something critical and we've got something that we can't then backtrack and fix, how will that feel for us all? Or what will that be like for you as the lead on this project? And even even if that is challenging for the person, you've put it in there. And I would argue that if we go back to AI and you give AI the kind of plan of right, I need a timeline for this, get me there, that is gonna get you there. It's gonna give you that timeline to make sure you get what you want, i.e., on the you know, 26th of June, you'll be landing that deal or delivering that product. It won't be saying what will what will it be like on the 26th of June if we haven't asked what if or check this or check this, because it wants to deliver what you think you want. And that again is the absolute, you know, what we have as human beings that AI doesn't have, where we're not in competition with it, is we're asking those difficult questions because what we mustn't become is more AI bots trying to please a timeline or a result or an answer. We are the ones who can bring all that messy challenge to make sure that we don't end up with a perfect timeline on paper that's an absolute screw up in reality. That's what we must must do. So it we need to take that risk. And sometimes it's a really uh meaty question to challenge the lovely plan that AI has thrown out for you. Yeah, totally, that can absolutely change things. Like you say, it can be that sort of it can be that moment of silence in a meeting where you're like, oh yeah. And one of the big things is challenging assumptions that you think because that plan is out on paper, again, we're coming back to that right brain. You know, there's a line in um my favourite series, Downton. Oh we know not Maggie. No, it's not Maggie, it's um it was one of the farmers, and he'd he'd taken in Edith's um uh little girl who was born out of wedlock, and so she she gets the farmer's farmer and his wife, but he doesn't he doesn't tell his wife, he says to his wife, it's a friend of mine's daughter and who's died and she hasn't got anywhere to go, sort of thing. So they take in this little girl, and of course, it becomes intolerable for Edith for the mother. She wants to see the little girl, she becomes more and more involved, and the wife's getting annoyed with it, and you know, the because it's her child. I mean, understandably, all of these. And what he says is to Lord Grantham at the end, who thanks him, and you know, sorry that it's you know ended like this, and he says, We had a plan, me and Lady Edith, but we forgot, we forgot one thing, we forgot emotions and people. Oh because you know, and the equivalent is you know, you write, this will be fine. We'll take the baby here, yeah, and my wife will, but we forget that there's humans involved, and that's messy, and things get in the way, and other things happen. And that's the bit that we ri that's why we must be curious. Yes, because it's it because it's the bit that AI won't do, and it's the bit that will get that will that will screw us up. Yeah, and we're we're so we're so valuable. Well, if I can double down on exactly what you've just said in the context of AI, I would say that in my experience, and obviously I it's anecdotal, I you know, only speak to a certain number of of people in the workplace, there is definitely a curiosity gap between what we think and know AI could and should do in the workplace and the level with which people are actually engaging and getting curious. That's exactly right. It's exactly pen that's exactly what I'm gonna do. Because probably because of emotions, you know, and and a number of other things. That's exactly right. It goes back to what you said that the technology is there, and so we can make a plan that right, well, brilliant. That's that's done. That's yeah, that's all organised and decided. And yet we have to factor in, we are human beings, and I would offer that curiosity is gonna do a lot for us in terms of sort of bridging that gap of what's available to use and how we can actually use it and move it in the workplace. Well, there's such a lovely bit there that before you know that are we even curious about AI, you know, it's so interesting, isn't it? Because it because is it fearful? And I want to there's a really nice bridge on that. That anxiety is completely normal. Like there's something, you know, you know the old you know, the book that was written years ago, I think it's Susan Jeffreys, you know, feel the fear and do it anyway. There is still such a truth to it, and it is a cliche, but it's true that to think that we're not going to be anxious and that the actually it should just feel much easier. And if we feel anxious and that then that means we shouldn't do it, or that means we must stay away from it. It's just not true. Of course, we feel anxious. That's what change is, and it really is feel the anxiety and do it anyway. It's completely normal. And also to remember nobody has a clear root map of what this is going to look like. It's not like we're alone in our not knowing, it's not like we're on some isolated islands and everyone else knows what is gonna happen. We're all in there. It's such a good point. I think. That people think somebody else somebody else knows what's happening. And I've been left out of this, and I don't know what to do with this. It's all the same. It's the same. You know, we go back to this with intention with 4D. It's it's simply your response to it. You know, it's two people standing in an airplane with a parachute on their back, and one person is going, woo-hoo, can't wait. Don't know what's out there, don't even know if I'll survive it, but can't wait to jump. And the other person is going, Oh no, I don't want to jump. And it's the same thing. And part of that is, you know, our predisposition, our inheritance, but and part of that is yep, feeling terrified and come on, let's give it a go. You know, it's that feeling, isn't it? It's the again, go back to mindset, behavior, and practice. Mindset, I believe I can do it. Behavior, I'm getting up in the plane with a parachute on my back. Practice, I'm gonna do it again and again until I go, yeah. This is this is this is like walking. Doesn't mean it does it's not a thing anymore. Yeah. Should we look at some tools to practice so that we can do that last bit? So for one week, can you ask a question before giving an answer? There's a challenge. Question before answer. It's so interesting, isn't it? Because of course, it's so obvious. A question has to come before the answer. Oh, we will jump to the answer. Do you know, Phil? Do you know I was working with a group of uh of leaders around for them helping to train other leaders within their organization in terms of public speaking. We were talking specific at one point about the QA, and I gave them lots of different ideas around it. But one of them is when somebody stands up to ask a question, let's say in a presentation conference or even in a meeting, of course, going back to what we said earlier, our our thinking is, oh my goodness, I must, I must have the answer. I've got to find the answer. My offer would be very often people stand up and ask a question because they want to be heard and they want to, they know they have thoughts around it. Their only opportunity in that context is to ask a question. But if you said to them that's a you know that's a really good question, do you mind if I ask you what you think about that? I think they would be absolutely thrilled. Yeah. It's so brilliant. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. It's giving a real stroke, a real win. Yeah. So, question before answer. So that's a real challenge to you. You cannot say the answer until you've asked another question. So you're digging deeper. The I don't know practice. Here's the challenge. That something is said. Identify three situations this week where you can where you can sit in not knowing. Where you and maybe you can even say it out loud, you know what, I don't know. And let's explore it. Even let's imagine I don't know anything about this. Yeah, let's let's yeah, yeah, yeah. Love that. Yeah. Because because, yeah, of course I know, I know everything about that. Just closes the door. There's nothing to, there's nothing to discuss, there's nothing to explore. So even if you know a little bit, I don't know, I know, I don't know very much. Tell me. Yeah. Well, that I mean that's that's from the work of Susan Wiseman uh as well, in terms of accidental diminishers. You know, if you are perceived as somebody who always, always has the answers, you are gonna block other people's um ideas. Yeah. Okay, love this third one: the anthropologist walk. So for the next week, you're going to imagine that you are an alien from outer space who's landed on this planet. And as you walk around your office or you're on a call at work, take a moment to notice the things that you've normalized. So, for example, there might be frustrations at work and you've normalized those. The moans, you know, the the the the moaning moments that you have in the, you know, the the kitchen over the coffee, that you've totally normalized. And the anthropologist would look at that as fresh behaviour. Oh, that's interesting. People are moaning about the fact that they haven't they don't have any they don't have time for lunch. Why don't why isn't there time for people to eat? That that that that that's a basic human need. Or they don't they haven't seen they haven't been in the same room as each other for two years. We will have totally normalized in a hybrid world. So the anthropologist walk is really imagining that you've just landed and everything looks fresh, and you're like, why is that? Why is that going on? That's weird. I'm gonna do that. I do that on my dog walk today, yeah. And you'll start to, you know, what isn't working? What actually seems odd now you look at it like that? Um, and write it all down, and you'll start to make new and novel connections, which again is what curiosity does. When we just when we just normalise everything, um, we're never gonna make new connections, we're just saying, oh, that's just how it is. Yeah. Cross-domain reading. This came up in when I was training as an integrative psychotherapist, and something that I was very pleased came up because I was like, oh, I do that, that's good, is cross-domain reading, which is not sticking to your track. So you're like your subject or your area. Yeah, so exactly. So as a therapist, I'm pulling things in from my dance lessons, from history. I might read an article about, you know, like I was reading something the other day on business and first class travel, and this guy was had all the insights into which which airlines should you be in, which cabin. You'd love it, Ben, and on which seat. And it was such a random thing to be reading. And which flight, which flights actually is a waste of your money to be flying first or business class. It's such a waste of time. You don't get you don't get enough benefits. Like he he was forensic with it because he traveled. He was all over it. He was all over it. And I was so drawn into it. Now, not because I'm gonna travel how many thousand hours in a year, or because I'm sort of you know obsessed with flying first class, business class or economy, but because I was really interested in his mindset of yes, firstly seeking patterns and comparing, but also really making choice for himself about what was worth it for him and what wasn't. There was so much in it, and you can apply that. So when you start cross-reading, you're you're making connections in your brain that you won't even know that you're making, and that makes you so creative. So it's a it's a direct lead. So read outside of your subject matter. You know, it's the old Steve Jobs thing, isn't it? You know, he didn't know why he'd taken a calligraphy course, but suddenly he's designing the Apple logo. Now he knows, you know, all the fonts. Yeah, and all the and all the fonts, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Join the dots backwards. Uh, the wonder question, I love this. So this is firing up that energy of oh what if? But not just like, well, what if we did it differently, but with that breath. Yeah. And there's something really lovely about this, isn't it? That excitement is anxiety with breath. That you could say, oh my goodness, this is terrifying. Oh my goodness, this is terrifying. It's got a really different feel to it. Oh my god, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. Yeah. Well, it's interesting, isn't it? I mean, at a real at a real fundamental level, Phil, of course, the breath allows your parasymp parasympathetic nervous system to kick in, which is your at rest, it's at calm. The lack of breath pushes you into your sympathetic nervous system state, which is your fight or flight. So absolutely breath. Every morning, I wonder why, or I wonder if, like a child, really.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:45

Uh the assumption audit, we've sort of touched on this. What if I'm wrong about this? What if that, what if they don't think that? What if that isn't what they want? Really check your assumptions. What if my team aren't as happy as they look? What if my customers are just clinging on by the fingernails and not actually satisfied? So if you're like, for example, if you've got I I think this about podcasts, this is a good one. If you if you see your download numbers come in, I suddenly thought this about the charts, the podcast charts. What if you didn't assume that all those downloads are 100% engaged listeners who actually listen to the podcast? What if you thought, I wonder if they're just on an automatic download? Oh yeah. And they're not actually if that was true, what would I do to try to get more listeners or whatever it is to get more listeners? So don't make assumptions. You know, if people are clicking your material, are they clicking it because it was had a shiny colourful button, or are they actually engaged? So check, you know, question your assumptions. Curious conversations, this is my favourite. Ask the third ask the second and third question. So oh so this builds on the first tip, which is to ask the question before the answer in your next meeting on your this week. Your next stage of that is to ask the second and third question. Yeah. So what if, or what do you think about that? And then they answer it. Ooh, what else? What if, what if that wasn't true? What if that what if this happened? Ask your second and third question. Well, link linked to that, Phil, we sometimes do this in uh in our coaching practice. Uh, we sometimes challenge our coaches because often people can get feedback that they take up too much space, they talk too much, etc. etc. So sometimes we'll do a game where they get tokens and they might have six tokens. Three of the tokens, they're allowed to speak for one minute, and three of the tokens they're allowed to ask a question. So you can do a kind of an internal token system. I mean, you could you could even do it with your team. Um, it will it really helps people be more concise and it really helps people ask more questions. Because if you've used up your three minutes but you want to make a point, you will find a question to ask to do it. Nice, love it, love it. And the last one, which kind of brings us full circle, is get curious with AI. Ask AI, yeah, use it. Ask AI a question like um, what would someone who totally disagree with me think here? What am I missing here? What does the research say that I might not have encountered yet? Because here's the thing: your output is only as curious as your input, and we come full circle, we come full circle to you are the source. Yeah. That even when we're talking about technology and AI, it's only gonna get as good as the inputs that you give it. Well, we talk about this in coaching, don't we? In terms of if you think of a funnel, if you don't ask a question, the funnel is shut. If you ask a very sort of specific question or closed question, you have shut off 90% of that funnel in terms of the information you could get, what you could explore, what you might learn together. So you really want to think about it as a funnel. And if you're in business, you want to make sure you are capturing as much opportunity as you can, and you cannot do that without curiosity and questions because the funnel will just get narrower and narrower and eventually close. And I would add one more thing, Phil, which is for any leaders out there, all of these tips we've given you are going to be useful. And can you take responsibility for creating the conditions for more curiosity in the workspace? So that might be, you know, there's 20 minutes where everyone gets to put two questions in a hat, or um can you reward question asking as well as people giving solutions and delivering on performance? Yeah, can you put questions? Yeah. Yeah, can you put questions in the chat? Another thing is, you know, to follow the podcast trend. You might have some meetings that are about updating information, and you might say, you know what, once a month we have a meeting where it's it's question time. Yeah. You know, you might actually have your own, you might have your own questions episode. So exactly that. Create the environment, reward question askers. If someone asks a question, rather than going, oh god, I hadn't thought about that. Great. Bob, I love that you asked that. Give reward question asking, and more people will do it. That is curiosity. It is your superpower, it's your foundational superpower as we move into this new era. Get curious about it, it'll change the experience for yourself and for those around you as well.

SPEAKER_01 56:17

Yeah.

Key Takeaways And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 56:17

Do we want to step forward into a place of fear and um stuckness, or do we want to move forward into a place of potential and curiosity? I know my answer to that. I totally, and people will love you, particularly if you're at a dinner party. Ask some questions. Oh, ask some questions. If you're on a date, just please ask some questions. If you ask the second and third questions, you are definitely getting a second date. When they say to you at the end of that meal, I'll give you a call. They actually mean it. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the 40 Human Being Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Do take on board some of the insights, tools, and tips because every time that you try something new to get back to choice, you are making a vote for the you that you want to become. And I I love that phrase, Pen. I do too. And please do share this episode with somebody that you know would really benefit from the lessons and learnings we've been chatting about today. And of course, if you're interested in more from 4D Human Being, do get in touch. We run workshops, trainings online, in person, conference events and keynotes. We've got the 4D on-demand platform for your whole organisation, and we do have a free essentials membership where anybody can sign up for absolutely free to access some of our insights, tools, and tips. So do get in touch with us if you'd like to hear more. We cannot wait to hear from you and to carry on the conversation.