Confidence – Where Does It Come From?

 What does confidence really look like when you're a teenager? Is it something we're born with, or something we learn? And why do so many people mistake popularity for confidence?

In this episode of Finding Your Voice, Brad and Isla explore one of the most talked about, yet least understood, subjects facing young people today. Drawing on Isla's experiences at school and college, alongside Brad's work as an executive coach and behavioural psychologist, they unpack how confidence develops, what influences it, and why so many adults get it wrong.

Together they discuss the differences between confidence at school and college, the impact of friendships, social media and expectations, and how family, teachers and role models all play a part in shaping how we see ourselves.

This isn't a conversation about becoming the loudest person in the room. It's about understanding that genuine confidence comes from knowing who you are, having the courage to be yourself, and finding your own voice.

Whether you're a young person navigating education, a parent trying to understand your teenager, or a leader, teacher or coach supporting others, this episode offers honest insights, practical reflections and plenty of moments that may challenge the way you think about confidence.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Welcome to finding your boy. Final Murphy, we're back. Episode two. So last time we talked about emotions, and you made me laugh quite a bit because you made me realize how I get it wrong. So much. But today I want to talk about confidence. I was making some notes before. I was thinking how confidence can often be misunderstood, it can be seen as being popular, being loud. And what I wanted to explore in this is especially when I think about social media and self-worth, especially with young people, I want to talk about that pressure to be something, to be confident. You know, I often think when I look at social media, it's all about your followers and how many followers and how many likes. And I know there's research about endolphins and how it makes us feel when we get likes and things. But I'm curious about at college, what are all the different layers of confidence that that you see? Like what is what is confidence to Isla?

SPEAKER_01 2:00

So I mean at college, there's definitely layers of how confident people are. The top layer is definitely like arrogance, where they're just loud and they annoy everyone. You know, it's eight in the morning and they're just shouting, and majority of people are annoyed by that.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Um, but then underneath that, there's definitely people who are talkative, people who will talk to anyone. Because I go to a college, it's not like we've all known each other for years. So sort of the highest level of confidence before it becomes annoying is being able to talk to anyone that you see in the hallways, knowing lots of different people. Um, and then there's like sort of baseline where everyone is, where they have their friends in a group, and then they maybe have some friends from their classes, but they're not necessarily going to go and talk to everyone.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

And is there a link between confidence and popularity? Do you think?

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Popularity is definitely much less of a thing at college. I think because everyone who went to a Sick Form College particularly is focused both on their education, because they do do A-levels, and on um having a chance to meet new people. And because they chose to leave their secondary school, yeah, I think a lot of the SIG form is already quite confident because they made that choice.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Right. So you've actually you've already left a safe space in school where you've known people for six years or something, and then suddenly you're coming into a new place where you don't know everybody.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

And so popularity can't really continue and is just never has never really formed.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah, right. And actually, you've only got a couple of years, so you make your social groups and you try and connect with people, is what you're saying. Yeah, I like that. Um, so do people get like how do you label people as confident then? Is it the ones that are able to just come and talk, or is there something else? Maybe it's it's quieter, it's more powerful that tells you of someone's confidence, the way they hold themselves or how they act. I'm wondering if there's something like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yeah, not looking at your shoes is a big one. Because some people do do that, you know, they sort of walk through the hallways, and you can't make eye contact with them because they're just really to themselves. Um, some people you can make eye contact with, with boys especially, if they're confident, it's more of a swagger, which is quite painful if you have somewhere to be and they're walking very, very slowly in the small hallways.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I think they might be getting a bad press here, but I've suddenly got this brilliant image of idiot boys walking around being really cool and really so slowly.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

The school's ancient, so the hallways are tiny, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:52

So you can't just push past them without right, okay. So, but what they're doing is they're trying to take up space, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Um is there a difference? Is there that is that the difference between then the the genders at college and and maybe there's something as well here around both non-binary and trans as well, because you see perhaps more confidence in some genders and maybe not so much in others. Is that a thing?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

I don't think so. I would say it's an it's an even split.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Is it?

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Uh yeah, at six form.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

So actually, I could be non-binary and be confident or not. I could be trans and be confident or not. Yeah. And actually, I and I suppose I asked the question because, of course, to be able to come out and be transparent and be authentic in my trans identity or my non-binary identity actually requires a level of confidence to do it.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

Um that actually would have taken probably years of questioning oneself before you did. So maybe there's an inner confidence in that.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Um, so I'm nervous about this next question, Ayla, because um I'm I'm not overly savvy on social media. Um I wonder how does social media affect the way people feel about themselves in your own social circle?

SPEAKER_01 6:25

I think people's personal pages aren't so much, uh, they don't have so much influence because with Instagram, which most people have, and then some people have private TikToks, it's like it is just for our friends, and it really is just to show our friends what we're doing. Instagram is like posting cool pictures to show our friends what we're doing. TikTok is like showing off our cool outfits that we've come up with, stuff like that. Um and you know, they're either private or it just doesn't necessarily matter because we're not doing what we're doing for likes. Um, other people on social media you can definitely tell has made an impact, but it's only with a certain group of people. Like people who go to the college instead of the sick form, they some of them look a lot more similar to each other, and it's a lot more of a basic look. There's so much less self-expression, and then obviously some of the college kids have so much self-expression, more than you'd expect. But the ones who don't have so much, it just makes me think that they're all trying to look the same and that they're all trying to look like people who they see online.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Right. So actually, they don't really know who they are, yeah. But they're comparing themselves to maybe the people who have lots of followers and get lots of likes.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

With clothes, fashion, makeup, hair, it's so insane. Sometimes they just start to blend together because it's just they wear so such similar stuff.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

How do you keep your own identity then in a world that's driven by people wanting to do that? That drives them mad.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

It's not a thing in every area though. That's that's really interesting. Like at the college, with people who take you know, girly subjects, be like hair and beauty or like um you know, design and stuff like that, it's a lot of black leggings and crop tops.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

It's a lot of just really basic, plain, non-colourful outfits. Um but then people who take like art and creative medias, it's a lot more self-expressive. It's like fairy boots and like hand warmers, like right, right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

And dyed hair. Dyed hair, yeah. Yeah, I definitely learned how to dye my hair at uni or just after, I think. Oh my no, maybe at uni I started to dye my hair. I'm not sure it was ever very good. I once dyed it blue. Not a good look. It wasn't a good look. But I suppose my what what jumps on that question is that for particularly when it comes to confidence, being able to express how you feel, you know, 20 years ago when I used to go to work, there was one way to look. Um so you know, I used to have a shaved head, I didn't have a beard, I used to wear smart shirts that were tailored, used to wear cufflinks, um, I used to wear a waistcoat and a jacket, smart jeans, smart pair of boots. And I was 47 when I realized I didn't want to live like that. I was being what I thought people needed me to look like, yeah. Even at that age. And now I haven't had a haircut in five years. Um, I have a beard all day. I can't remember the last time I wore a shirt. Um, and apart from still wearing jeans when I go to work, I now wear trainers and t-shirts. And actually, that's who I am. But my generation, it took most of us till our late 40s and 50s to find that ability to express. When you look at the confidence of the people in your generation, yeah. Do you think that they'll maintain and sustain this individuality that you're describing? Or do you think there's still a need to conform in order to make it, to get a job, to get into uni? Is there still that conforming?

SPEAKER_01 10:46

I don't think so because I think that people who are starting to own, run, manage business businesses were the people who originally started to, you know, not conform to the standards. So now so many more jobs allow tattoos, piercings, dyed hair. It's just not a problem anymore.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, it's interesting you say that. So, you know, obviously I'm covered in tattoos, and I remember a few years ago being in Singapore, which is a very tight ruled environment, right? It's quite strict. There's rules, you can't even chew gum.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

I was gonna say, Mum told me, you got your chewing gum for the status.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

You can't chew gum on the streets. Um, and I remember being in this workshop and turning up in a t-shirt, and I had you know, I've got all these tattoos. It's a big corporate environment, right? Senior people. The next day, a woman walked in. She was from Australia. The day before she'd come in in a full suit. She came in in a pair of shorts with a t-shirt that showed that she clearly had an entire back tattoo, sleeves on her arms, and up to her neck, none of those high-roll neck jumpers anymore. And I said to her, Oh, I love your tats, we need to talk tats. And she actually said, I wanted to thank you. I said, Oh, what for? She said, You made it okay for me to wear my tattoos on display. And over the course of that week, we found that 15 out of the 27 people on the program had tattoos. Yeah, and by the end of the week, everyone was displaying their tattoos, and it was creating such amazing conversations because I think tattoos are a way that we identify, and I think it requires a confidence. So I'm interested that you say that actually there's less of a need to conform now because the world has changed. What what what is that change? What has happened that makes all of that okay, whether it's piercings or hair dye or tattoos or even just the clothes we wear? What shifted? What did you see as shifting?

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Um, well, I'm not sure quite where the shift happened because I'm 16, so I haven't I didn't see much of what the workplace would have been like before that happened. But I just know that so many people have dyed hair. You know, you see people everywhere with dyed hair, you know, crazy buzz cuts, undercuts, tattoos, everything. And it's like, well, they must have jobs. At least most of these people must have jobs.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Yeah, I feel like I have to ask, what's a buzz cut?

SPEAKER_01 13:28

That's when you're bold, but you can still see your hair a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Okay. I had to ask. I could have been cool and trying to just play along. Play along. I'm never clear what you were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Bold but not clean shaver. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

So I'm going, I I'm I'm getting it's on my own terms. It's like, you know, I've got a little bit of hair and I am gonna show it.

unknown 13:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Well, I'm not there yet. I think I might end up with a full head of hair all my life.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

But it's like you can get it as a haircut, it's like one guard or two guard.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Okay, again, I I almost feel like I want to check, but I do know from shaving my own head what that means. Um that's interesting, isn't it? Because maybe what you're describing is as I'm a Gen Xer, which means I was born in the you know, either late 60s or early 70s. And I think as we get older and leave the workplace, I think you'll find most Gen Xers still like to wear probably suits for work or smart clothes, and they get dressed to go to work. I think the millennials is where the shift started to happen. So the generation before you, you're Gen Z. So as a Gen Z, you already grow up in a world where freedom of expression is encouraged. Yeah, and so that actually makes me feel like the next question is is maybe less important because maybe it it doesn't feel like a pressure to you. Do you feel like a pressure to know who you're meant to be becoming? Is that a pressure? No, no, it's not. You know how lucky you are. We were forced to know what we were gonna be from like literally your age, 16, 17. You had to make decisions that were this is what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, I mean, obviously your GCSEs lead into what A levels you could do, A levels lead into uni, but there's ways around it.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

I love how relaxed you are about the fact that you're not gonna subscribe to this pressure dome that gets put on people. Now, I think culturally there are still some challenges there because maybe in the West we're better at that. I think in some cultures, particularly in Asia, there's more of a presence around what you need to do. And actually, depending on which gender you're born into also creates a different kind of pressure, right? Especially in places like China. If you're female in China and you're not even encouraged, you know, to really go and thrive. So I'm wondering then, if you're living in a world where your entire social world and the college world are people who majority self-express, have this confidence. How do you tell the difference between confidence and someone faking it?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Well, someone faking it still has chosen to express themselves differently. That's a big thing. Because it's like with dress sense, especially on social media, it's not necessarily that everyone wears basic clothes. Because some people don't, some people have their own style, and then that would be more niche, which makes it more interesting. So even if they don't have the most amount of followers, they sort of become an icon to a certain group of people who will then follow their style. So then they have their particular style, and their friends take inspiration from their style. So if someone wasn't confident but still chose to wear that style, they might be faking it, but they had some confidence to express themselves.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Yeah, there's a there's a theory that says that you can actually fake it till you become it.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Um, so uh there was a show years ago called Faking It Till You Make It. It goes on from that, and but what it talks about is that actually even the way we sit and hold ourselves can increase testosterone and lower cortisol in our system.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Because confidence is driven through those hormones, right? So for those of us with too much cortisol in our system, we're the ones who come across a bit nervous, a bit shy, not very confident. Um, you were talking in the last episode about the EPQ presentations. Yeah, presenting is the number one fear for people globally. You know, it beats spiders and dying into second and third place.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Um, so how do you bring that confidence into a presentation at 16? Like, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Yeah, a lot of people were very nervous about it, but I think recently schools have caught on to the fact that people are nervous of presenting, that it's something that needs to be done. So when I was in year seven, we had to present just for the sake of it. In year seven, in year seven, you could do it on anything, but you had to make presentations, stand up in front of the form and just present. Oh my god about nothing.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Yeah. And then spoken language, which is part of GCSE, you had to present again anything, but just in front of your teacher. Like it's becoming part of the curriculum that you need to be able to present and speak.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

So you just get used to that standing up.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Do you feel nervous when you have to present?

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Not particularly.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

No.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

No, but there's also it's like it's something that has to be done, and it's your work. Like you go through writing it knowing that you're gonna have to present it.

SPEAKER_03 19:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

And so it's like you know it's coming. You've just got to do it. It's not very long, it's like 10 minutes. We only presented it in front of our teacher.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Ten minutes will feel like a lifetime. I'm someone who presents for a living, and 10 minutes, you know, a lot of work can go into a 10-minute presentation. Yeah. And so what, do you do you practice it out loud beforehand, or do you just practice it kind of under your breath?

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Uh actually just winged it from. I wrote some flashcards, but I don't really have time to look at them. So I was the first presentation that my tutor did.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Always better to go first.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

Yeah, it was like 11am on a Monday morning, and I had a two-hour class right up until my presentation. No way.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

So you literally had flashcards and stood up and spoke.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

I didn't use my flashcards. Because you get marked for talking like organically, not reading off your slides. So I was like, do you know what? I'm just gonna wing it. I know I had to write and edit all 6,000 words of it, I'll just have to talk.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Right. And I think to me, that's the definition of confidence when you know your subject.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

So I guess what we're saying actually is that if you know yourself, if you can be authentic, you can be confident. And maybe it's the people who don't quite know themselves yet, yeah. They could might have to fake it in in order to become it. Yeah, I I like that. Um so confidence doesn't have to be loud, it has to be social, it has to be about connecting. Um do we as adults misread that confidence? Do we get it wrong when we're looking at you? Do we think you're not confident? Do we think you're too confident? Do we give feedback when we're we think you're overconfident? Like, how how do adults get the confidence piece wrong?

SPEAKER_01 20:59

I think the confidence piece isn't too bad.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

I don't really think I've had anyone misjudge my confidence. I do get a lot of people thinking I'm older than I am. Right. I don't think that's because I look old, I think that's because I'm confident, especially at work.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

So they assume your late teens.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

A lot of the time people ask me if I'm in the unique.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Amazing when you want to get into a bar and grab a drink.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

But that doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

That doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

I don't think I look old. That's what I think it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

So you need to talk to people first.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

I went with my friend to pick up her paychecks on Friday and she works in a pub and I walked in first and I got the dirtiest look. That's all she walked in.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Because you're way too young to be in it.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Yeah, so basically I learned uh needs to talk to people in order for them to think she's older.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Because when I was working at the pub, someone asked me, he said, What's your like career plan? I was like, I Don't know, and he said if you tried university, and I was like, No, because I was 16.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

He was like completely shocked, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think that you have a very reflective, mature outlook in the way you see things, and I think that helps with how you come across as confidence, even the way you speak here. You know, we've not scripted any of this, we're just literally jamming from each other with questions, and you don't need time to really think. You have that confidence to back yourself. I wonder if you could package it up and give advice to people who adults, even that don't have that confidence. Because I know many adults who don't have the confidence you're describing, you have, right? Or that I see in you, by the way. What advice would you give them? Like, what would you say to them to help them find that inner strength that gives them what we've been describing as confidence?

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Well, probably just that people's days are so busy, they're not going to be thinking about what you've done time and time again. Like when I'm working, sometimes I see hundreds of people a day. I talk to so, so many people, I couldn't even tell you who five of them were, even if they talked to me. So it just doesn't matter as much as you think it's going to. Or like with outfit repeating, I've run out of new outfits to wear. I'm like, right, what am I gonna wear now? But then I think I don't even know what my friends wore yesterday. Like, no one's gonna notice if I wore this and I wore it a few days ago.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

I don't remember what they wore yesterday, no one's paying that much attention to you.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

No, because ultimately people are more interested in themselves than they are in you.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

So how does someone stand out then? How how do we stand out? What makes the difference?

SPEAKER_01 23:55

I think people remember funny, good, wanted experiences more than they remember like little embarrassing stuff that you might do.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

So if you're a good time, if you're funny, if I'm laughing, I'm gonna remember it. And if you like, you know, trip over or stumble on your words, I'm probably not gonna remember it because that doesn't mean much to me.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Unless it's really funny.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

Yeah, unless it's really funny.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

So if it's really stupid, I might yeah, I might remember it. But other but I I I I I enjoy the thought of actually if we're able to create a meaningful, fun experience, we're more likely to remember that as confident and presenting in a confident way, then we're gonna worry about where you may have done something that maybe not your own confidence.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Yeah. What would be your top three tips then to people? Obviously, don't worry about your outfit. Not something I ever worry about, quite frankly. You would have seen enough of me to know. I pretty much wear shorts all the time.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Don't worry about your outfit. Um, people don't think about you as much as you think that they would. Yeah. And it will all be forgotten, even if you do something really hilariously bad.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

It's so true. It's so true. Today's gossip is tomorrow's new, you know, in it's in the bin, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

It's literally in the bin. In fact, I think I I remember falling out with a friend of mine like 25 years ago, and I remember saying to her, like we were in the middle of an argument. I I don't remember what we were arguing about, but we were arguing. Um, we were in a pub, probably a little bit worse for wear in the pub. But we were arguing, and then suddenly I just started laughing, and they were like, they couldn't stop laughing either. We were in the middle of an argument, we're now both laughing. And I remember saying to them, you know, in a week's time, we will not remember what we were discussing here. And we got up and played pool, and that was it. Yeah, that was the end of the argument. We didn't resolve it, we didn't. I don't know what we were debating. I still can't remember now. It was probably even more than 25 years ago, it was probably nearly 30 years ago, but we just laughed. And I wonder whether that's partly what you're talking about there with meaningful and fun experience. If we're able to laugh at ourselves a bit more, not take ourselves quite so seriously, yeah. Maybe that confidence comes in because we don't worry about what everyone else is thinking.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah. I don't know. I think we may have exhausted the confidence a bit. Should we pause it there? Yeah. Okay, we'll see everybody next week.