Episode 3 – What Teenagers Can Teach Us About Leadership

Are the best leadership lessons actually coming from the classroom?

In this episode of Finding Your Voice, Brad and Isla turn the tables on traditional leadership thinking by exploring what adults—and particularly leaders—can learn from teenagers about motivation, engagement and communication.

Drawing on Isla's experiences as a student, they explore what separates an average teacher from one who genuinely inspires young people to learn. The conversation uncovers striking parallels between the classroom and the workplace, revealing that whether you're leading students or managing teams, the fundamentals are remarkably similar.

Together they discuss what really engages people, why trust and psychological safety matter more than authority, and how the best teachers create environments where young people feel confident enough to ask questions, make mistakes and grow. They also explore why feedback often misses the mark, the importance of delivering difficult messages with empathy and honesty, and how curiosity, encouragement and meaningful relationships unlock motivation far more effectively than pressure or control.

Throughout the episode, Brad reflects on how these same principles underpin exceptional leadership in organisations. From creating cultures where people feel valued to understanding what truly motivates individuals, the discussion highlights that the skills which inspire teenagers are often the very same skills that build high-performing teams.

Whether you're a parent, teacher, coach or leader, this episode is a powerful reminder that leadership isn't about having all the answers—it's about creating the conditions where people genuinely want to learn, contribute and thrive.

Because sometimes, the greatest lessons in leadership come from listening to the people we think we're here to teach.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:50

I don't know if we were back for episode three. And we can laugh because we might be recording all of these at the same time. But no one's gonna know except us.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Um, so for some, we're just back a week later. Um, and our topic today is taking that student's perspective of what makes a good teacher, and why I like this one a lot is in my world that translates as what makes a good leader from a team member's point of view, because your teachers are your leaders, right? They're directing and driving and guiding you, hopefully inspiring you. So kick us off. Give me a starter for 10. What makes a good teacher from a student's perspective?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Um, especially at SICFOM, just recognizing that they can't teach the same way secondary school teachers did. There's so much content, and it's all applied through well, the way I the subjects I take is all just applied through essays. They can't give out worksheets and stuff. So I think just recognizing the age of the students and what's going to be in the exam and applying that to the lessons, not necessarily teaching for the exam, because that can just get really boring, but teaching what we need to know for the exam and then relative information that we can add to the exam, but it's not necessarily on the syllabus that might just make it more interesting.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

And how do we do that? How do we gain the credibility as a teacher to the student that makes you want to trust that I can help you this year?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Knowing the answer to questions is a big one. You'd be surprised. Some of my teachers do just read off the slides, and you're trying to ask them questions, and they're looking it up, they're reading off the slides, and it's like, well, I could do that. If you send me the slides, I can read the slides, I can look it up. That doesn't help me.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah. That speaks so loudly to me from a leadership point of view as well. Because I think some leaders feel they need to have all the answers for their people. But actually, what we really want to do is we want to coach and enable our people to make more informed decisions, and I think you described in your opening that actually what makes a good teacher from a student's point of view is being a subject matter expert, but not necessarily just giving the answers, but giving the insight into how to come up with those answers. So can a teacher recover from that? I mean, clearly you've got a couple of teachers in mind. Um, we won't name them just in case they sue us. Um, but uh do they ever recover?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

I mean, if you just read off the slides, it's helpful to know exactly where on the syllabus you are. Because if you're just because that's not it's very easy to not take it in if you're just being talked at about it in the most boring way. So if you talk about exactly how to apply it to the exam, then it just makes it really simple. I mean, it's boring, but it's straightforward and it's simple.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Okay. So how do I bring things to life for students if I'm a teacher? Because I'm wondering as a leader, how do I bring my vision to life for my people? And I think this is the translated version for a teacher and a student. What can I do to bring my subject to life that gets you totally hooked and engaged with me?

SPEAKER_01 4:37

I mean, talking about things that are actually relevant, so talking about new news stories, nothing outdated, nothing over like 15 years old, because sometimes they are interested.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Um and so don't go back beyond my lifetime, basically, is what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Unless you're doing literature, then yeah, right, right, right, right. Um, and just like opening it up as a discussion. Like if it's an essay subject, there's not going to be one set answer. No. So instead of looking at it in one way and then just looking at criticisms, look at it in multiple different ways. Let the students pick what they think about it, because then it's just going to be so much easier to debate it in an essay.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

And I'm I'm guessing that the teacher plays a dual role in the classroom, but also when marking. So, what do you need from the marking side? So, how how do you get inspired? So, I hear you get inspired by someone who doesn't read off slides, and I think that's true for leadership as well. We don't inspire people by reading from the playbook. Um conversely don't get inspired when they're just reading from their notes and they have to look things up. They clearly haven't really thought about their topic. But teaching also takes place outside the classroom, it takes place in your essays, it takes place in your marks, your markings, the notes you get for it. So, like when you think of your own teachers, how are they inspiring you in your topics outside of the lectures?

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Well, in marking, I personally definitely need a grade so that because then if it's below what I want, I can use that as motivation to get some work done.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

But notes are definitely important because if I don't know what I've missed in my essay, then I'm just gonna be re-revising stuff that I already know, which just isn't gonna help.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Okay. And so it's it's funny because you were saying before about how your mum likes to debate with you, yeah, say on philosophy. Maybe you should start debating with her. You might get some really cool arguments to put into your edge.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

It just depends how hard I'm cramming. So if I'm just trying to get the basic information in, right, right, right, then it's like mum, back off. Yeah. But if we're months out from the exam and I'm trying to learn something new, then the debating's helpful.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Right, okay. That that that makes sense. Oh, well, you've got a year to go before exams, right? Maybe you have like a weekly debate on uh philosophy stuff that starts to inform.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

Um, where do teachers get it wrong outside of the classroom or even inside the classroom? Yeah, because I imagine, especially with college, college is like that bridge, isn't it, between school and uni. You're not kids, we don't need to treat you like school, we're not asking you to wear a uniform. You're one step away from uni where you're pretty much free to even if you don't want to attend the lectures, no one's gonna call you out.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Um so what are teachers doing to kind of draw you into your subject, to make you love it, to make you want it, to make you want to study more? What are they doing? And I'm wondering in your answer, maybe I can find some things that leaders maybe need to do more of.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Well, definitely at college, it's so much more informal than it was at secondary school. Um we don't wear a uniform, we also call them by their first names.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Oh wow, okay. Um Richie and Gloria, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

And we can teams chat, like it doesn't have to be an email, you don't have to go and find them, you can just teams chat them a quick message.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Stuff like that just to make it more informal because it just seems easier. It doesn't seem like you're trying to impress your teacher. It's like they know that you need the information, you know you need the information, so you're just gonna get it as efficiently as possible.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

So how do you how do they create boundaries with that inform?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

I guess the students just don't care that much about their personal lives. We don't it's not at the forefront of our minds.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Right. But they probably care about yours, right? To make sure that you're mentally okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Our subject teachers, not so much. Our tutors, yeah. But we don't see our subject teachers that much. It's only five hours a week, possibly less if we have multiple tutors for one subject.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

So how does where does well-being fit into all of this? How does how do these teachers think they have a responsibility for your well-being, right? How if they're detached, do they even know if anyone's struggling or maybe mentally not so well? Because that's a thing, right? Yeah. I mean yesterday I saw a stat that said one in eight children in the UK are suffering from formal disability and stress disorder.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Yeah, we have two hours a week of like a tutor type session. It's split into two. So we have personal professional development, which is like looking at universities and just typical like PSHE stuff, drugs, alcohol, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Where to get it.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

And then academic mentoring, which is where basically we just go into this classroom and they track our attendance, our homework, causes for concern, seeing if there's been any changes.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

And if there has, then we get like a one-to-one session.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

And how honest are students in those sessions? Because you have to have trust, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

You need to trust those people to tell them that stuff. Because this is where I make the link with leaders. I could do all of that stuff as a leader, but if my team don't trust me, if they don't feel safe, they're not going to tell me. So I'm wondering how do they create this psychological safety, which I think is super important, especially for young people. How do you feel psychologically safe with them?

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Honestly, some of our tutors and some of the leaders of the SIC form are just so nice. And they're actually surprisingly young, a lot of them as well, which kind of helps because it doesn't necessarily feel like you're talking to an adult if they're any 25, 30. It's it's such a level thing. It's such it's such a level thing. There's not this massive gap between the students and the tutors.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

That it just it feels easy, I guess, if you need something.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Do they feel more like friends or is there still enough of a respect level?

SPEAKER_01 11:22

There's definitely a respect level, but I mean a lot of our teachers don't take themselves too seriously, and they're happy to joke with our students.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

So right. As someone who spent a year at teacher training college back in 1991, 92, um, I found it one of the most challenging things of teaching platformers when I was only 22 myself.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Because some of them I just really liked, I would have been friends with in a different world.

SPEAKER_02 11:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Um so I wonder about that, you know, the the psychological safety bit to me is quite important. Has there been, when you think back to school as well, have there been teachers now that you recognize that you didn't create that psychological safety and you didn't feel safe to share that?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

So most of the time, most of your experience has been that it's actually been quite safe to share.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

And so my follow-up question to that is was it safer to sometimes share with teachers than it was even with parents?

SPEAKER_02 12:32

No.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

No.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

I think you know, obviously they both created the possibility that you would be um, you know, that it would turn into like a big thing and it could go on for ages or stuff like that, but it's all kind of on the same level, really.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

So actually, when we think about what makes a good teacher for a student, it isn't that dissimilar to what makes a good leader for a team member. It's the knowledge, it's the ability to inspire, it's the ability to connect with them, to create the safe space for people to want to share and talk, and to be able to give them feedback.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

What happens if the feedback's really tough and uh like stings a little bit? What is it like then for you and your friends and peer group to kind of take critical feedback?

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Um I mean it's just kind of rubbish, but it's sort of going back to the same thing again. It's like you'd complain and then you just have to find a way around it. Like there's not much else you could do.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Okay, I'll take that and I'll say, all right, let's take that to the bank. But then I look at adults today in their 30s and 40s, and they can't give critical feedback to people, they worry about upsetting people and telling them that they're not doing it right and they're gonna go home and they're not gonna like them, and human beings don't wanna, you know, say no and make people feel bad. So, what's your view about this kind of you know, the the giving of feedback when when it's a tough message? Like praising people, that's easy. Yeah, what about when you got to give a really crappy message to somebody? Like, how do you feel about clearly you're good at receiving it because it's like all right, stings a little bit, but I've got to do it.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

What about when you've got to give the message? Actually, you're not doing this right. I don't like the way you're doing that. Like, how does that work for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:30

When I have to give the message or I don't really get to give the message to anyone because I'm not a leader or not a teacher. It's not there's no one that I really could criticize necessarily that I would want to.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

But of course, with your friends, they might not always do everything right. You might need to sometimes tell them when they annoyed you or upset you.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Just have a go at them. It gets a bit awkward for like five, ten minutes, and then we move on.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

And then you move on. Because I think that's where I think the gap is. I think it would be really cool if we could start teaching young people how to give those messages. Because I hear you, until you're in a position where you've got to, you don't.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

But then when you find yourself in a position to, you're already in your 30s and you've got like three decades worth of never having given it.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Imagine how easy it would be to give it if you actually practiced giving it when you when you were younger and got past the awkward bit of how someone feels.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

What's it like then at college? Maybe this is the the the last question. What's it like when from a student's perspective, you want the teacher also to respect your questions, your work, the way you operate? How do you how do you earn respect as a student?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Well, it's the two-way streak thing again, you know, it's like if you never show up to their class, if you don't do their homework, then they're just not gonna respect if you hand this in and you say, Can you mark this for me quickly before the exam? You can't expect them to do that if you if you don't have it in your homework when they ask them. Like it is it's not necessarily always the student's top choice to be in the school, and it is the teacher's choice, and they have the responsibility to do the work for their salary and for your benefit. You have slightly less responsibility as a student, but you know, your grade does fall on you ultimately.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Right. So actually, if I interpret what you're saying, you've actually got to respect yourself in order for them to respect you. Yeah, you can't just swing by two days before the exam take and check this is on the right track. Yeah, you actually have to turn up and show up to be there. Yeah. What's your message to teachers then to try and get it more right than wrong? And let's use that as our final bit in this episode.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

To teachers, I would make it more discussive because some of my lessons are two hours, and it's like I can't be talked out for two hours. That's that's really, really long.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I get that it's lecture style, which I do appreciate, but especially when it's essay topics, there's always going to be two sides of an argument. Yeah. So if you turn it into a discussion, then it just becomes so much more interesting.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, I like that, and that totally speaks to me because you know I spend time doing workshops and I might lecture for 15 minutes, but then it's 45 minutes of discussion and practice, and then it's 10 minutes of lecture, but then it's an hour of practice and play. And I think you you hit on something really important, which is it's it needs to be experiential. If you just talk to me for two hours, it's not going to go in.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

You still do have to get the information across though, because some of my friends have teachers that they don't like because they feel like they're not getting the information they need for the exam, which means that the student then has so much more work to do.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

So the teacher's just telling their stories, but not yeah, yeah. Right, that must be infuriating.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, it's like you have so much more work to do by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yeah, that's a lot of stress. Sort it out, teachers. I think that's what we're saying.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yeah, find the middle ground.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

I like the um the balance of how that sounds. Um Murphy, I think we're done on episode three.