Finding Your Voice
Real conversations between two generations and the people who've been there before. Hosted by executive coach Brad Solomon and 17-year-old college student Isla Murphy, Finding Your Voice explores confidence, communication, leadership, relationships and life through the eyes of both a teenager and an adult. Alongside our conversations, we'll be joined by experienced leaders, coaches, entrepreneurs, educators and inspiring guests who'll share the lessons they've learnt through their own journeys, both the successes and the mistakes.
Our aim is simple.
To explore how we can help young people develop the confidence, self-awareness, communication skills and leadership mindset much earlier in life. These are the conversations that shape who we become, yet many don't happen often enough in schools, colleges or universities. Whether you're a young person finding your direction, a parent, a teacher, a leader or someone who simply enjoys honest conversations, this podcast is for you.
No scripts. No lectures. Just real conversations about finding your voice. Where experience meets potential.
Finding Your Voice
Authentically unpassionate
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Finding Your Voice – Episode 4
Leadership Through the Eyes of a 17-Year-Old
What does leadership actually look like to someone who is just about to enter adulthood?
In this episode, Brad sits down with Isla to explore leadership from a perspective we rarely hear. Rather than discussing leadership theories or corporate models, the conversation focuses on what genuinely earns the respect of a young person.
Together they explore why explaining why matters, the importance of two-way respect, and why confidence without substance quickly falls apart. They discuss teachers, sports coaches, workplace experiences, social media influencers and even university open days, uncovering what makes people worth following and what turns young people away from those in positions of authority.
The discussion also explores whether popularity is the same as leadership, how compassion and credibility influence trust, and why innovation will become one of the defining strengths of the next generation of leaders.
As the episode draws to a close, Isla reflects on the kind of leader she hopes to become and the qualities she believes will matter most as she begins her own leadership journey.
Whether you're a leader, teacher, parent, coach or simply interested in understanding how the next generation sees the world, this episode offers a refreshing reminder that leadership is earned through behaviour, not titles.
In this episode we discuss:
• Why young people need to understand the reason behind decisions.
• The difference between authority and leadership.
• Why respect should always work both ways.
• Confidence, charisma and credibility.
• Popularity versus genuine influence.
• Leadership in schools, colleges and first jobs.
• Social media influencers and whether they really lead anyone.
• Innovation as the superpower of the next generation.
• The importance of compassion in leadership.
• What makes someone truly worth following.
Leadership isn't about having authority.
It's about giving people a reason to follow.
Alright, uh, we're back in the room. Island Murphy, welcome to the Find Your Voice podcast. This is our fourth episode.
SPEAKER_02Sounds right.
SPEAKER_03Sounds right. Um, so today I want to talk to you about um leadership and what it looks like through the eyes of a 17-year-old. Um, are you driving yet?
SPEAKER_02Not yet.
SPEAKER_03Not yet.
SPEAKER_02I'm 16.
SPEAKER_03Oh, you're 16?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for another week.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Oh, it's so it is, it's one more week, right? It's a 28. We're almost there.
SPEAKER_02Almost there.
SPEAKER_03Almost there. Have you got a lesson lined up?
SPEAKER_02For when I get back from Bali.
SPEAKER_03Ah, but well, we're kind of teasing people who are listening now with the fact that you're going to Bali, but we're gonna hold that for an episode later on in the summer. Um, so what does leadership look like when the Lens is a teenager? And I've got a couple of questions here, and I'm curious about when you hear the word leader, what does it conjure up for you? What does it mean to you?
SPEAKER_02As in who are leaders?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and and just when you think of leaders and when you think of that word a leader, what does it what does it kind of translate for you as?
SPEAKER_02Probably teachers and then like sports coaches.
SPEAKER_03Okay, and you've obviously had both, and when you were younger, you would have had sports coaches in gymnastics and things like that. So I'm wondering who were the leaders that stood out, and and I wonder why they stood out. Because we were talking before, and you were saying that actually not all teachers are leaders, yeah. So I wonder what the difference is.
SPEAKER_02I think since I've started sick form, my teachers they don't leave the classroom in the same way because we're all sort of there just to get the notes, do the work, get the homework, and leave just to pass our exams. Um, so there's not much that they need to lead or guide us on, um, whereas in primary school or even secondary school it's different because they had to control and manage their classroom. So I think that made them leaders rather than my sixth-wom teachers.
SPEAKER_03So because they have to control the environment, they have to lead.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And is that because at college it's different because you're not kids?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Basically, yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's still a sense of authority, but it's just there's a lot more of a sense if you don't want to be here, you don't have to.
SPEAKER_03Right. Okay, so actually you're you're treated more as adults. And I that's actually the second question, which is I wonder what the difference is in how young people and adults see leadership. So at work, a leader runs a team, runs a business, runs a company, and when you lead, you have a vision, um, you have a set of values, you operate from those values, and you make decisions for people, for your team, for your company, or for yourself. But actually, in in recent years, there's been a move to think that actually we all lead ourselves, right? We lead our own careers, we lead our own education. You're looking at universities now, so you're having to do that, right? You look up where you want to go, you look up the courses. Do I wonder how someone who sits on that cusp of 16 to 17 years old? What do you think makes for a really good leader?
SPEAKER_02I think explaining why is definitely a big thing. If it's like you have to do this, that's like okay, brilliant. Why do you get to tell me that? But if it's like you have to do this because doing this will improve your grade, this looks good to examiners, this looks good to universities, that's way more helpful because it just gives a good reason as to why I would do it so that I know that it's not just busy work.
SPEAKER_03I love that, and the reason I love it is there was a very famous um TED talk 15 years ago now by a guy called Simon Sinek, and he taught and he wrote a whole book on it, and it's called Start with the Why and the whole premise of leadership. We can hear the dog panting, which is probably coming out on the mic as well, right? So there's a dog sitting under the desk at the moment, one of our dogs is sitting under the desk, and he's just panting away because it's very hot today. But Simon Sinek wrote this book and did this incredible TED talk about if you don't give the reason why, people won't follow you. And you're basically saying, actually, it doesn't matter whether you work or whether you're a student without the why, you don't know what you're doing. I really like that idea. Um, if you were to look at yourself, has there ever been a moment where you've had to lead friends, a group at college, a project, something where you've had the responsibility, where you had to see yourself as a leader?
SPEAKER_02There's definitely been times at work where before we got an employee to do a new employee to do like the ice cream trike, my boss had to go and do it.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02And so when the person who was more senior than me, her shift ended for about an hour. I then had to get the new hires to do what we needed to do to keep it running. Right. So that was definitely interesting.
SPEAKER_03And what's your patience like with new people?
SPEAKER_02Well, one of them was my best friend, so I didn't have to be particularly patient. I was like, oh, you come and do this. The other one, um I was more gentle with her, but it's not like you know, working in a cafe, it's not rocket science. She kind of knew what she was doing enough to just keep it going for about an hour.
SPEAKER_03But did you feel a responsibility for them?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03And what does that how does that feel? Or does it weigh heavy or is it something easy for you? You just if someone gives you responsibility, you're just yeah, whatever.
SPEAKER_02It was more comedic than anything. So I'd only been there a few months, and I don't think that the owner had realized that the person who's more senior than me, her shift was gonna end before he got back. So I don't think he thought about the fact I was there with two people who had worked less than three months, which is what I had worked.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02Um, and it was just funny to me. I was like, they better not do anything. So I don't know how to deal with that if they do.
SPEAKER_03But it sounds as though actually you just stepped in to leading them. Yeah, you kind of took the responsibility of being the one with the most seniority. Is it the most seniority because you've been there longer than that?
SPEAKER_02It's like their first week.
SPEAKER_03Right. It's like you couldn't just let them drown, basically, is what you're saying. But but I quite like the idea of the fact that your boss left. Maybe they did know and they just trusted you because you show the right qualities.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's a possibility. You say with a wry smile. What do you think? What do you think are the qualities of a leader that you would want to follow? Like, what would you need to see from someone? Apart from the why and giving responsibility, what would you want to see in someone?
SPEAKER_02Probably two-way respect and just knowing what they're doing, being clear with their instruction.
SPEAKER_03And two-way respect means what in in the workplace for you?
SPEAKER_02Um, that when you ask an employee to do something, like you say it in a knife or you say it like, oh, sorry to have to ask you, but can you do the washing up, unblock the thing? It's like, yeah, I can.
SPEAKER_03But you know, if such I choose not to, but I can.
SPEAKER_02If someone's like do the washing up, it's like, oh, brilliant. Like you could do it, nothing's stopping you.
SPEAKER_03So there is an element, isn't there? I think, especially in work where you're paid by the hour where you want to think that your boss is prepared to roll their sleeves up and do the job. Yeah, they don't have to because they're paying you, but but they would do it if they need to.
SPEAKER_02It's like you shouldn't make someone do a job that you wouldn't do.
SPEAKER_03Right. And I think the only time that that gets really different in the corporate workplace is when you reach a certain point when, as a leader, you're actually paid a lot more than other people to not do that stuff. Yeah, because you're actually meant to be doing other bits, but actually, most people get confused with that either, and actually, you have a lot of leaders in the workplace who are still doing their day job because they just don't want to let go of it.
SPEAKER_02It's not that you have to do it, it's that you can't be so against doing it. Like if it's more convenient for everyone for you to do it, and it's a one-off. I think stepping in just shows that you're not, you know, paying someone a lot less to just do dirty work.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I hear you. So two-way respect, great, being credible so you can actually do it. I think that's important. I can't be asking you to do stuff that I don't know how to do. Uh, where does things like psychological safety come in? Do you need to kind of trust your boss or is that less important? Like, do you have to like them, trust them? Like, where does that fit in?
SPEAKER_02Well, sometimes it's like if you get told to do something and you're like, that that sounds like it wouldn't it's not a good idea, and it's just like, well, not my cafe.
SPEAKER_03So okay, so this kind of resigned feeling of you're being told what to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And you get paid at the end of the day, right? So you just take the money and keep quiet. And maybe that's where the two-way respect comes in when basically what you're saying is when I think they're talking BS, I just shut up. Yeah, yeah. That that I think still happens in the court in the corporate world.
SPEAKER_02Laugh about it with my co-workers, do whatever I'm being asked, and then go home when I'm done.
SPEAKER_03And then you go home, yeah, and then moan about it to your mates. Um I'm thinking now of the difference between school and college, and one of the questions I had was at school, who are the leaders that people really respect? And it kind of goes to this last question. But I wonder when you think back to school, even in your own peer group, like what was it that made it made those people different where others did think of them as leaders? Maybe they were sports captains, maybe they were really clever, or they led different groups at school. Like, what was it that you can notice about the way they acted that makes you think of them?
SPEAKER_02They're students being leaders. Um I can't really think of any student who I would say was a leader. I think my school had a weird dynamic because we'd all gone to the same school for 12 years by the time we left. So it was everyone had been switched around, everyone had been friends with everyone. So I'm not sure that there was anyone who would fit into the category of a leader amongst the students by the time we were in year 11.
SPEAKER_03Right. And is that because of the familiarity? Because you all just know each other. Yeah, you're smiling. What are you thinking?
SPEAKER_02I think we all just knew each other, but it's like the awkward stage where you know someone really, really well, or you used to know someone really, really well, and you're not necessarily friends anymore, but it's like you still know the person, and it was just like that with the entire year group, and it was yeah, it was a really, really weird place to be.
SPEAKER_03So, would it be strange to you because you you could be in a team with someone, you could be friends with them in the workplace. Let's say six months' time you were still working at the cafe, right? So going into the Christmas holidays, and you know you're gonna be there for two weeks in at the Christmas time. And your boss could say to you, Do you know what? I'm gonna be away for three days. I want you to, I'm gonna give you the keys to the cafe, I want you to run it. And suddenly that your best friend's still there. There's someone else who's been there for five months, and now suddenly you're doing rotors, you've got to ask people to clean stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That can be quite challenging, right? Stepping into leadership when you do know people. So what you're saying is at school everybody's equal. But in the workplace, there's that line from Animal Farm, we're all equal, but some are more equal than others, right? And so I wonder what your view on stepping into leadership when you do know people.
SPEAKER_02I think when you know people in the workplace, if you've been there longer than them, I don't think that would be weird. I think it'd be weird if they'd been there longer than me. And I feel bad. Because I'd be like, oh, this should be your responsibility.
SPEAKER_03But if you're better, yeah. What about then?
SPEAKER_02I'd still feel bad.
SPEAKER_03Because your compassion.
SPEAKER_02Because you just think you're like, oh, you've worked here longer than me, you know the boss better than me, and now I'm having to put like I feel like they know how to do their job quite well. Because at the cafe, not a ton of instruction is given because we're all trained and then we know what to do.
SPEAKER_03Right, and it's the same work each day, it's just different customers, right? It's interesting that you say that. So when I was 21, my first job was working in local government, and I used to statement young children with autism. And I joined the team with five other people, and seven months in I was promoted to the team league. There was someone who'd been in the job for seven years, and they were so unhappy about it. So we both went for the job. Now I went for the job because I just wanted more money. Um and when I got it, they were so difficult to manage. Everything I asked them to do was an argument, and it just made life sticky. And I w I wonder if because you'd feel bad, right? Would you still take it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because your money wouldn't go up.
SPEAKER_02Exactly, pretty much. I don't like I can't imagine it being aside from rotors and opening in the morning. I can't imagine the daytime shift being much more difficult. Because like I said, everyone just knows what they're doing.
SPEAKER_03Right, and I suppose there'll be things that happen one-offs where you might need to call someone out. You might need to remind someone to clean a table or clear away, you know, clear something out. But so when I think of school and leadership, and I go back, I I can still remember my time at school. And the people who were like in the football team, they were seen as leaders. Um and today I suppose it's a little bit different because we also have influencers, we have sports, and I wonder what the difference is in your eyes between someone being a leader and someone being really popular, or is it the same?
SPEAKER_02I would think that being popular. I don't think trends spread as widely, so I think that's a big thing. So if someone is wearing a certain trend, it might spread between just their friends who look up to them, but it wouldn't spread year what year wide, like across the year group. So I think them being a leader is much less of a thing because they're just not leading that many people into a trend as it would have in the past.
SPEAKER_03Did you ever have like head boy or head girl at your school? No, because some schools do that, don't they? Where actually kids then vote. Yeah. I suppose that's one of the first stages where people get to realize whether or not they can lead. Because you're then like a bridge between teachers and pupils.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Would you ever go for something like that?
SPEAKER_02That helped my meaning out preparation.
SPEAKER_03Well, and so so this is really important because I think that's why in all walks of life people look for leadership because it helps the next stage.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03If I get into a job and working at your cafe, and in two years of working there, I can move to managing that cafe. My next job that I go for when I leave the cafe is as a manager. So I'm immediately earning twice as much as I would have done when I first started.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So, but I wonder if that means that some people try to go for leadership because they want power. They want power and money. So I'm curious when you look out at your boss, when you think about some of the pubs you've worked in and bosses you had there. Have you ever seen anybody misuse power when they've been a leader? Or maybe you've heard stories from your mum and dad about their bosses.
SPEAKER_02And I'd say no, all of my bosses have been quite nice. I mean, the one at the pub was strange, but nice.
SPEAKER_03That's such a story for another time.
SPEAKER_02When you say strange, I just I don't know what like he does because the pub is only busy one night a week.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02He lives by himself at the pub, and I just don't know what he does. He's never shut ever. Ever.
SPEAKER_03Just so we're clear for anyone who is listening, living by yourself is not a problem. Although I now suddenly realize that people are wondering what I might do, and I live on my own.
SPEAKER_02With like with no friends, and your job runs for about four or five hours a week.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's I mean, that is that is quite strange. Um, when you think about leaders that you've had, whether it was in sport, whether it was coaches, whether it was teachers, whether it was people at school who you saw as leaders, friends who maybe lead the group, who do you think's influenced your way of thinking on leadership? Has anyone actually had an influence where you've seen them do something and you thought, well, do you know what? I quite like the way they handled that. That's a really cool way of responding. Because the reason why I asked that question is there was a guy in my primary school who I looked up to because it was sports day. I I must have been eight or nine. So he would have been eleven. So he was two two, three years above me. And we had a sports day and we were doing the high jump and I'm short, so I wasn't doing the high jump. I used to run, do the running races, but he was quite tall. And every single person who did the high jump ran and kind of skipped over. The rope, and when this guy, Rafi, his name was, when he came along, he did this really weird run, and then he did the frisbee flop over it, you know, where they go backwards over it. And I thought that's so cool. I tried it for hours after sports, so I just kept running towards the bar and trying to throw myself over. I like I got over it when it was like a meter high. But um, and I think what made me think of him when I asked you that question is I wonder if the people we think of as leaders are actually people who do things really differently. So, do you have any friends, whether it's how they dress, how they speak, the way they are with people, adults, friends, parents, their siblings, but just something that when you look at it, you admire that quality. And now that we're talking around leadership, it's like, do you know what that's a quality I think really works with people?
SPEAKER_02One of my friends could talk her way in or out of anything, and I don't even know how she does that. Like, I think it I maybe it's confidence, but I wouldn't say that I'm not confident, but she really could just talking, she could get anything she wanted or get out of anything, and across the board, so with her girlfriends, with boys, with teachers, adults, parents, she just literally, um that's how she wants that's how she got ahead of year, right? Quite sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, with anything, and she's persuasive or she's uh she manipulates, like if you have to analyze it?
SPEAKER_02I don't even think so. I think something that she does must just make her charismatic enough, right?
SPEAKER_03So do you think charisma plays a part?
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah. So if you can't give a good interview, then it's you know, how are you gonna become a leader or get a good job? Or if you can't talk to people in a way which makes them believe in you, then you can't really be a leader.
SPEAKER_03And where does where does charisma stop having an effect and substance become more important?
SPEAKER_02Once you've done something wrong a good couple of times, and the other person's thinking, how are you talking yourself out of the way?
SPEAKER_03Okay, so so basically you is as long as you don't mess up, you've got to have some substance.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So actually, there's already three qualities, right? So you need confidence, you need charisma, and you need substance. And maybe that goes back to this idea of when you were saying before people need to be quite credible in order for you to want to follow them. Have you ever had to follow anybody you've not thought any of those things about?
SPEAKER_02My boss at the pub. But again, that there's not much instruction given if the job is simple enough.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. But you know, I think most, I mean, unless you're a you know an electrical engineer or a NASA scientist, I think most jobs are pretty straightforward to start with, right? I mean, we we all go in at the level we're meant we're meant to be. Um I I wanna, as we kind of reach the tipping point and start to head out of this episode, I'm wondering about social media and for your generation, are influencers leaders? Is is that the way we look at the world now, that actually the people who we follow are the leaders of today in your world?
SPEAKER_02I think it is a really weird thing when something that an influencer does once becomes a trend. Yeah, but a lot of people can look at it objectively and be like, why is this a trend and just not follow it?
SPEAKER_03I think TikTok dancing, for example.
SPEAKER_02I think that's a certain category of people who fall into influencer trends, and then for the rest of the world, it's just it's something that's going on online, they don't become a leader.
SPEAKER_03Right. Is there more pressure, do you think, for young people to have a public voice?
SPEAKER_02I wouldn't say so. I don't think having a public social media is a big deal. Not everyone does. Um, if they do, it's just friends and people who you went to school with. Um I mean, going viral is definitely not a big thing amongst people my age. It's not something most people strive to do. And I know a couple people who have, but it's like it's not looked, people don't look at it with admiration. It's like fringe.
SPEAKER_03Really?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I'm totally misguided because I would have assumed that young people would really love the idea of going viral and suddenly there's thousands and thousands of people who are watching their reels and stuff.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I don't know anyone that's gone that viral, but there are certain ways you can put yourself online where not a lot of people see it, but you still make a lot of money. Like with TikTok live streaming.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, but it's just cringe because you're like, it's so stupid, there's no substance in it, there's nothing interesting, no one can be a fan of yours because you're not doing anything, you're just sitting there asking people to like your live stream and getting paid from it. So it's it's humiliating.
SPEAKER_03So basically, you're you're selling your soul, yeah, pretty much. So, what's the difference then between the confidence that you talked about earlier and actually just being authentically who you are? Like, is there a difference? There must be.
SPEAKER_02I think you just have to know. I think you might be able to know if someone's taking their confidence if you don't think that there's substance behind it. But as soon as there's substance behind it, surely that is just being who you are.
SPEAKER_03And but who is the judge of substance? Yeah, see, that's where I get stuck. Yeah, because like my level of substance could be really different from yours. So we could be sat there looking at somebody talking, and you'll be like, Oh my god, he's amazing. And I'm like, Really? Yeah, and look what happened this week. So we won't mention the university, but you went to explore university. Um what turned you off that university?
SPEAKER_02The tutor's lack of interest and lack of knowledge of the subject.
SPEAKER_03So a lack of passion, a lack of why, and a lack of substance made you actually sack the whole thing off and go for lunch.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So actually, we see it that actually implicit in your judgment is whether or not you would have been prepared to follow that particular leader who is prescribed by their university as the face of your program, your course, and you want to do journalism. So it's like you know, you would want I I want to see somebody, you know, with a an SLR camera on their shoulder who's out there taking pictures and seeing things and is a photojournalist and can really inspire me to want to come and do the course. And actually, all the things we've talked about today, that person didn't have.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So that authenticity and confidence, maybe they were lacking that as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, the authenticity possibly was there, there was just no confidence or passion, there's authentically unpassionate.
SPEAKER_03Authentically unpassionate. Maybe that's what we should call this episode. How to be authentically unpassionate. Um, I want you to do something that I train leaders on all the time, and we call it envisioning. And I always say to people that when leaders say to me, um, they want to be a great leader, I always ask them to think about if today was their last day and they'd been in the job for 10 years, what would they want people to say about them on their last day? Like what would we miss? What did you do that would make them really proud? And it's it's called envisioning, it's when you you look forward from a point in time and try and imagine what you would want the world to look like from your point of view. What kind of leader do you think you would become over the years? Like, what are gonna be the qualities that you lean on that are gonna make people say, Yeah, you know that Ila? She leads because she's this, this, and this. What do you reckon if you look forward? And I know it's imaginary because you're not there yet, but actually in three years' time you could be sat here having a conversation, you're saying to me, Oh, and I led this group and I did this group, oh, and I'm joining that group. And and so I'm curious what you think the qualities inside you that you would bring up to the surface.
SPEAKER_02Probably compassion. If I know that I'm getting someone to do a job that's boring or annoying, it's like it's not like do this job, it's like, would you mind you know, doing this job? I know it's not great, but I need you to do it. Um, compassion, confidence, just making sure everyone knows what they're doing, understands the instruction, and then just knowledge so that I'm giving good advice, good instructions. Yeah, not busy work.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I like the idea of the compassion. I think that's it's kind of it's kind of lovely actually, because I think a lot of leaders lose their compassion because they're so caught up in trying to get the the job done. Um I've got a question here that says uh, if you could give one piece of leadership advice to adults to make us better leaders, what would it be?
SPEAKER_02Probably just the why.
SPEAKER_03The why, yeah. It's so important. I think a lot of people, I mean, I know that kids and parents argue about this, right? Because parents will just say, I told you, you know, I told you to do it, so just do it. But if you actually got the why each time, so does that mean if your mum and dad gave you the why each time, you would do everything? I'm trying to hang you here.
SPEAKER_02I thought the why was important.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so actually, there's a there's there's a little caveat to the why, right? You've got to believe in the why, because otherwise, you know, when your mum and dad listen to this, they'll be like, Okay, I just give Ila the why, and she's just saying she'll do it. But actually, what you're really saying is you've got to start with the why, but I've got to believe in the why. So, what makes you not believe in a why?
SPEAKER_02It's like if the why was the outcome for the reason I'm doing something, if I just don't think the outcome is important, yeah, or if I can get around the well, I like the idea of a workaround.
SPEAKER_03I think everything has a workaround, but I also quite like, and I'm saying it with a smile because it makes me chuckle a little bit, that there's this kind of subjectivity to whether or not you think it's important. I quite like that kind of eyelas rule. So basically, everything comes in, it gets processed, and then you're like, hmm. Like, like I've got my own internal rating system, and if I think it's important, I'll do it. And if I don't, well, thank you for sharing your why. I'm not I'm not gonna be doing that. Not today, anyway. Um when you maybe last question, Ayla, for this. Um when you when you look at your generation, what gives you hope about your generation becoming great leaders of the future? What do you think they've got? What are the skills your generation have that's gonna help turn businesses in the next 25 years into big successes?
SPEAKER_02I think innovation is probably actually a big one. Um just being able to think of new concepts, new ideas, and doing things differently to how they've been done.
SPEAKER_03Right. And do you think there's enough time given at college or school to being innovative?
SPEAKER_02See, it's difficult because I wouldn't want to do work that's not relevant to my exam just because it's innovative, especially you know, between year 10 and the end of school, because you're so close to your exams. So I wouldn't want schools to bring in innovative lessons if it was irrelevant, but if the exam board made it more inventive innovative, that's different.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so okay, so if you can be creative, innovative on a project that's linked to an outcome for your course, then that you would encourage. Yeah, right. But if it's just being innovative for the sake of being innovative, that just seems like a waste of time. Right. Yeah, because there's just too much energy gotta go towards exams. Yeah, yeah. When when last question, I'll say it with a smile. Um rubbish leaders teachers, even friends. Have you had any rubbish leaders apart from the guy at the pub? We're not gonna mention the name of the pub.
SPEAKER_02There was a sports coach at gymnastics, right? And it was quite impressive his ability to make like 17, 18-year-olds just start crying on the spot.
SPEAKER_03Wow, yeah, harsh, so harsh. Gosh, I couldn't have been very motivational.
SPEAKER_02No, because he taught the highest level as well, so it's like, dude, I want to get to the highest level because then he was my coach.
SPEAKER_03Right. So you were watching from afar, yeah.
SPEAKER_02From the next level down, thinking don't put me in his class, really, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think you land on something, what a great last point, and I think it's so valuable for people to think as leaders, the ripple effect of your behavior. Because actually, people are watching leaders all the time, and and this is for people in my world of the corporate world as leaders, we're observed when we walk into a room, when we're working with people, people look at leaders and observe them, and you just define the perfect example of why leaders get a bad reputation. Partly because they're idiots in the way they behave, but secondly because people don't want to follow them because they actually create an environment that isn't safe. I love that. Do you think of yourself as a leader? I know I said uh I'd do the last question, but I've kind of brought the last one in again. It's like the last, last, last question.
SPEAKER_02No, I don't think of myself as a leader.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. What would need to change for you to do that?
SPEAKER_02A situation where I would have authority over both.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well that's gonna change when you're in Bali. You will have authority over helping others. And just as a tease for the next episode, in a couple of sentences, what are you gonna be doing in Bali? Because that's gonna be the focus of our next uh podcast.
SPEAKER_02So volunteering, teaching young children, and backpacking as well.
SPEAKER_03Well, I think both require leadership. One, because you need to be organized, have a vision, know what you're gonna do. Uh, and that's just the backpacking. And uh, when it comes to teaching kids, especially teaching kids around English, I think uh the lessons learned from that. I think that's gonna be my starting point.