Maine A.T. Club & Dave Field

This is the first of a series of episodes on the thirty A.T. maintaining clubs. The Maine Appalachian Trail Club is responsible for 267 miles of the Trail in Maine. We talk to Janice Clain, the current President of the Club. We also feature Dave Field, who has volunteered with the Club for 70 years. They discuss the founding of the Club, some of its important leaders over its history and some unique aspects of the Trail in its northenmost state.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

We are beginning a series on the Appalachian Trail maintaining clubs. There are 30 clubs currently that maintain portions of the Appalachian Trail. And the first club that we're going to talk to, just mostly by happenstance, is the Maine Appalachian Trail Club. I have two guests with me today. Janice Klain is the president of the Maine Appalachian Trail Club. And Dave Field is a he's held many offices within the Maine Club. And he's a very long-term volunteer and I would say a legend of both the main club and of the AT itself. Dave was inducted into the Appalachian Trail Hall of Fame in 2013. We're going to get into Dave's involvement with the Maine Club as we move forward. So let me start by, and I'll direct this first question to uh Dave first, and then Janice, you can chime in. Tell me about how the main clubs was started.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

The main club was started by Myron Avery, plain and simple. And most of the leaders were in Washington, D.C., Byron and Gene Stevenson and others. It's interesting, the official incorporation of the club was June 18th, 1935, in Washington, D.C. Um, it was re-incorporated in 1939 as a main corporation, but the original was a DC corporation. I've got an interesting letter from Walter Green, who was the first president, to uh Harleen James, who was the secretary of ATC, that's dated um May 16, 1935. And Green says, in keeping with the formalities of the Trail Conference Constitution, I wish to notify you of the organization of the Maine Appalachian Trail Club, which formally assumes charge of the maintenance of the trail in Maine. So that wasn't the official incorporation, but at least in May of 1935, it was it was considered uh something was a done deal. And I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Well, many of our uh listeners will know who Myron Avery is, but briefly describe who Myron Avery was.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Myron Avery was a maritime lawyer from Lübeck, Maine. Uh worked in Washington, DC. Uh well, in in the 30s and through the war years. Um it's interesting. I I had another letter that I dug out uh which um said basically uh Myron Avery wrote to a friend that said that this is in 1927, and he said he decided to help Penton Mackay out with his Appalachian Trail. Um that was the first evidence that I have of his becoming interested in the project. I believe did did he also found the Potomac Appalachian Trail Club? He certainly was one of the leaders of the founders.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

I believe he did, yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

The the Maine Club, uh, I think Maine and Georgia are the only two that exist only uh to take care of the Appalachian Trail. We're not a hiking club or a canoeing club or a outing club or anything like that. It's the only reason we exist. Um and Avery uh he never set foot in Maine with regard to the trail. He was born in Maine, of course. He never set foot until 1933. Through 1932, he was writing lots and lots of letters, getting all the information he could about where the trail might go. He was disturbed that there was some inclination of the conference to end it on Mount Washington. He wanted it to go to Catarin for sure, and so he was getting all the information that he could. Walter Green, in the meanwhile, a Broadway actor and main guide, was roaming all through Maine in 1932, and he was looking for a route and corresponded with with Avery. Then in 1933, of course, the famous expedition with Avery and and and the others from the summit of Catarin, and they blazed the first part of the trail from Catain all the way down to well in a series of trips all the way to Bigelow, so halfway across Maine. Um and that really was the beginning of it. And Avery early on realized that um they needed to form an organization. And he found a few folks in Maine, uh, such as Helon Taylor, who was later the superintendent of Baxter Park, but at the time he was recruited by Avery, he was a game warden. And they created the Maine Appalachian Trail Club. Um and I uh Janice had asked me at our annual meeting to participate with a group that talked about uh trail maintenance records, and I put together uh some bar background information. In 1941, there were 16 formal assignments of trail. That is documents that said this is your section to take care of, and that stayed virtually the same through the 1950s and then went up to 25 by 1960. Uh and in 1980, assignments were doubled. The club wanted to increase participation and reduce the sections, so we doubled to 50 and then 77 by 1990, and by 2000 we had 96 maintenance assignments and had by that time added corridor monitoring assignments and so forth. But um I strayed from your question about who Avery was, uh, but he was the dominant figure in the creation of the Appalachian Trail in Maine. Uh not only figuring out the route but recruiting the civilian conservation corps that built most of the original trail between 1935 and 1940, and of course, constantly seeking uh any kind of financial aid that he could.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

I have done a few presentations uh around the hundredth anniversary of the Appalachian Trail, and I characterize uh Beton Mackay as the dreamer, and I characterize Myron Avery as the doer. Does that does that seem like a fair characterization?

SPEAKER_01 7:05

I called him the dreamer and the driver.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Yeah, same pretty much the same thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

And I have this great letter from Avery to Mackay in December of 1935, which is a pretty rough letter. You know, long letter, which Avery's tended to be, and he basically told Mackay it was time for him to get off his butt and do something.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

I have heard that Myron Avery ha was a bit of a prickly personality. Uh you didn't know him personally, right? You're your team.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

No, uh I joined three years after he died.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Okay. Do you have any uh uh uh recounts of uh uh of of of uh his personality you that you can recall hearing from people?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

A little bit, because I knew Gene Stevenson very well. And of course, she kind of worshipped Myron, so she wouldn't say anything bad about him, but she certainly uh told me that he was determined. He he was the driver, he was the one who got things done. Um I and and uh um Elon Taylor uh thought really well of him, but there's plenty of evidence mostly in you know, of course I transcribed all of his correspondence, you know, twelve thousand documents, most of which were were his around the creation of the trail in Maine. And uh there's some fairly harsh language incorporated into some of them. Of course, he had a pitched battle with Percival Baxter. Avery thought the only way to protect Qatar was to make it a national park. Baxter was a strong states' rights person, and of course went on to buy it himself. So yeah, he was he was a prickly personality.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Uh and I'll I'll mention for uh folks who haven't been to our museum, we have a very prominent display on that uh trip, the famous trip that that that uh Avery led to scout out the trail. And they had a folding canoe called a full boat, and we have that uh full boat on the wall of the AT Museum along with a display of of that famous trip. So that's something for folks who haven't been to the museum or who haven't been to the museum lately to uh look forward to. Um so uh we've talked about Myron Avery and we talked about Walter Green, another fascinating uh person who just recently got uh inducted into the Hall of Fame. Uh, can you please talk uh and perhaps Janice uh might might like to chime in on uh some of the more important historical leaders of the MATC?

SPEAKER_00 9:58

So you've already mentioned that that we're very proud that several of our club members have been inducted into the Hall of Fame, including um Lester Kenway, um who is kind of uh uh a successor to Avery, in that he developed a lot of the methods for laying out, for constructing, for siting trail. Um Steve Clark, who still in his late 80s uh oftentimes attends our annual meetings and still still writes articles for uh our newsletter. And one of our latest pieces he wrote about himself and his and his then wife uh bumping into Grandma Gatewood on the trail. Um we have a couple of others that that have not been inducted into the Hall of Fame, but that and and I don't have as much background or as as long a history as Dave, but people like like Bob Cummings, he has been inducted into the the Hall of Fame mainly for his work in in um beginning the the struggle to um to preserve the Bigelow range um and keep it from being coming becoming just another ski resort. And then um a man named John Neff, who for many years maintained the very last section of the trail uh in Baxter Park. And a lot of the information that I historical information that I have about the history of Baxter Park was from a book that John Neff wrote. Um we have several people who are are still very highly involved with the club. Um, we like to think that it's what keeps all of us young is being part of this club. When you when you look at someone like Dave, who I'm not gonna say exactly how old, but he's he's got a lot of gray hair, and he's still out chasing corridor monuments uh and and training people. Uh so it those connections and that outdoor activity keep us all keep us all going. And and we have quite a community. Um and as you one of you said, um we focus on maintaining the trail, not uh marketing the trail. We may market our club to try to get more people involved in it to be maintainers, but we're not we're not marketing the the the trail itself as as I feel some of the others some of the other clubs are. I'd mentioned So I don't know if that should you go go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

That's a that's a good list, Janice. I've mentioned a couple of others. Um uh Donald Corzempa, who took over as president after Roy Fairfield, who succeeded Myron Avery. And um Corzempa's whole focus was lean-two's. The CCCs had built shelters in western Maine, west of the Kennebec River, but Corzempa completed the chain uh all the way north of there. And he was succeeded in that project by Carl Newhall, who was also a tremendous lean-to builder and authored the little booklet on how to build a log lean-to that I'm sure you have in the museum and that post clubs have a copy of. Um John Morgan, who was also president, just died last week, week or so age of 96. Uh and early in the year, uh we had a dictatorsilli died uh two weeks after his hundredth birthday. And he was writing a book entitled My First 100 Years. Uh and he was I I guess this trail work keeps you going.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

So we've talked about the the formation of the Maine Club and some of the important leaders. Let's talk a little bit about your section of the uh Appalachian Trail. First, how many miles are in Maine? And then, if you would please describe uh you the terrain uh that makes up your section.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

We have 287. I always get mixed up whether it's 87 or 287 miles. I get kind of um irked when I listen to people from other parts of the trail uh talking about their sections. And you know, the people in Georgia have no, and and this will come back eventually to the questions that you asked. The people in Georgia have no issue whatsoever in recruiting volunteers because they draw from uh the Atlanta metro area, um Virginia, they've got all the the maintainers they want. And and yes, the Potomac Appalachian Trail Club does more than just the AT, but they're drawing from uh Washington, D.C., Charlotte, many of the major cities. Most of our trail is at least an hour, oftentimes two hours drive for anybody to maintain, and and it does not go through major towns. When I hear people talking about in Pennsylvania, um the threat is housing development and AI centers that are close to the trail, and we're worried about about paper companies, and um probably more worried about moose and deer and and bear hunters trespassing on our territory than we are about people coming from towns. I do a lot of my work in the hundred-mile wilderness, which has become iconic. It's been it has been kind of marketed, not not much, not by us, but by others because it is so so remote. And and I happened to sit last Saturday for about four hours with our ridge runner at the um on the banks of the west branch of the Pleasant River, talking to people who were going back and forth. Uh, some of them day hikers, some of them northbounders, some of them southbounders. And what they're looking for is the remoteness. It also leads to some of our challenges for our maintainers just to get to their section trail section. Um, luckily for myself, I can drive to my section, although some of it is over uh old logging roads. But some of our maintainers have to find a trailhead and then still hike for a few miles to even begin to do their work. Um, our trail crew is out right now on um a section called Holly uh along Holly Brook, uh just north of the Kennebec River. And I got an email or I had correspondence um earlier in the spring with another one of our trail members who had seen that the trail crew was going to go into Hollybrook and his section is the next section. So he had to walk probably two miles through what the trail crew is going to work on just to get to his section to start to do his own maintaining work. And yet, when I look at how many times that particular individual, and this is this is Louis Char Chartier, um, he gets out to his section, uh he's by by the end of May, he'd already been there, I think, three times. So and that's pretty typical of a lot of our maintainers.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Dave, what would you add to uh a description of of the AT in Maine?

SPEAKER_01 18:55

It's a distinctly northern forest. Um we have some very mountainous terrain, although not really compared to the southern Appalachians, but we have you know a lot of 4,000 footers. Um and being where we are, um there are many of those 4,000 footers that are uh alpine zones, which is certainly a uh an unusual feature. Saddleback mountain, a three-mile continuous alpine zone, which is incredible, and was a major feature in the battle with the saddleback ski area to protect that and get it in the corridor. So we have a lot of conisperous forests, the spruce fir forest, which is typical of Maine, less of the hardwood, the beech, birch, maple, although there are some of that. And then in northern Maine, uh you've got relatively flat country, but incredible number of lakes and ponds, huge lakes and streams, and streams, huge lakes and ponds. Uh, so a lot of water. And in the mountainous areas in western Maine, you're looking out over gigantic lakes. Um, so that's a distinct part of it. We do have uh one relocation I laid out is right down along the west branch of the Piscataquis River, and that's unusual in that it doesn't follow the high ground, but it follows a beautiful river, uh, very remote with lots of waterfalls and gorges, and uh so it's it provides that variety. And uh, you know, our wildlife um you don't worry about bear. We have lots and lots of bears, so you don't worry about bears because they're very, very shy, and uh they will not it it's the mice and the squirrels are more a danger, and moose. Uh and the moose, you know, at certain times of year can be I I've been the only wild animal in the woods I was ever really frightened of actually was a a a mother bear with two cubs, and she chased me, and uh so that was that was bad. But the moose are most likely to give you a fright. So we have beautiful forests, beautiful views, wonderful wildlife, uh the whole length of the trail. As Janice mentioned, the trail goes through only two uh well, actually, only one incorporated town. I don't think Caracon can incorporate it anymore. Monsenan is it. Um the trail isn't really through the trail doesn't go through the village of Monson.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Exactly through the town town, yeah. And the same with Rangely.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

The the trail is roll off the trail, Rangely and over, those are all side trips for um hikers.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Dave mentioned the the wildlife and um when the the ridge runner that I'm I'm uh supervising, his this is his second year with us, but he was in Georgia in the from February until April. And down there, they have they focus so much of their education on bears. And as Dave said, we don't have to do that. The only time I've ever seen that that we've had to caution hikers was about partridge and nesting partridge along the side of the trail. They've scared me a few times. Another thing that has changed over the past maybe 10 years, 15 years, in some places we are now having to schedule our maintenance and our trail crew around nesting peregrine falcons. And that we've never had to do before. Perhaps I shouldn't say that because my memory doesn't go back that far. But I know a couple of years ago we had to to alter our alter our trail crew schedule because we wanted to do some work on West Peak of Whitecat, and they were peregrine falcons nesting. So we had to be really cautious about that.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

As we talk to other trail clubs, uh we uh will talk about some of the challenges they have. And and uh you are correct, Janice, that uh some of the more uh some some of the trail clubs in more urban areas, such as where I live, uh uh are are concerned with things like graffiti and parties and and uh overuse and that sort of thing. But but we'll leave that for for when we uh talk to those clubs.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

We have some of that too. We have some of that too, but not to the extent that you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Okay. Um let's talk a little more about the the main club. How many members are there currently in the main club approximately?

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Um between 700 and 800, but a lot of those are are kind of donating and not actively maintaining. We have a lot of members um who you know when they finish their their through hike or their section hike, um, will join the club be and and donate. Um actively, I think it's uh active maintainers. I think we're around 200 or so, Dave. Are you uh about that?

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Yeah. And yeah, how do you uh Dave, you cut you alluded to this a little bit, but but how do you uh organize how you maintenance the how how you maintain your uh your uh section? Uh do you have individual maintainers for a few miles, or how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Uh we use the term overseer, which is confusing because many clubs use that for maintainers. Um we divide the trail into oversight sections. Um Myron Avery was the overseer of the trail in Maine. Period. All of it. Um, and then later on, we divided it into three sections eastern, central, and western Maine. Um, and then more recently we've divided it into five sections. Um, so you've got the Balpate district, the Bigelow district, the Kennebec District, the White Cap District, and the Catatin District. And there are club officers who are responsible for uh maintaining contact with the individual maintainers. Okay, uh for 10 years I was the overseer of the trail in Western Maine, and at that time it was 110 miles of trail. I also maintained seven and a half miles uh within that. Um but the main maintenance assignments, and we don't make assignments that long anymore. Um, three miles is about the max, but there are individual sections of trail for which each individual is responsible. And when I was president of the club, I worked up a one-page um it it's it's like a contract, although it's certainly not that that legally formal, but it's a one-page statement of um making an assignment to an and we use the same thing now for corridor monitoring and for campsite maintenance. We have a separate group of campsite maintainers, and that one-page statement basically says, you know, this is your section, this is physically what it is, this is what we expect you to do, this is how we expect you to report, and um that's the way it is. And uh, if you don't do your job, we'll fire you. But we give them actually an appeal right to the executive committee if they don't think they were fairly uh let go. We haven't had I don't think we've had a single um hostile firing in my tenure. But that's how it's organized. As I say, you've got the the trail maintainers, the corridor monitors, of which there were 72, and the campsite maintainers.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Dave, I want to talk a bit about your involvement with the main club. Uh I understand that you started maintaining a section when you were 17. Is that accurate? Tell me uh uh uh if that's true, and also uh uh generally about your involvement with the main club. Fifteen.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Okay. I I have worked on the trail every year for 70 years. My formal assignment lasted 59 years. At which point, uh AFib taking a blood thinner and running a chainsaw working alone, my wife felt was unwise, and so I gave up that section. Uh it's been 10 years since I've done active heavy chainsaw work on the trail. Uh since then it's been corridom monitoring uh work. So it's you know, not using tools. But it was uh June of 1955. My brother dug out some topo maps. My older brother, he's three years older than I am, dug out some topo maps, found this trail on the Bigelow range, and we got a bunch of our friends, and we said we ought to hike this trail. So we left Stratton Village uh early one June morning on the way to do the six miles over to Horns Pond. It took us two days. This was the year after Hurricane Carroll had flattened the Bigelow range. I mean, there wasn't a tree standing. The last mile that we hiked, there wasn't a tree standing. Uh we got to Horns Pond, we found a register, which actually had been this is 1955, so it was Myron Avery had left. And we wrote up who we were and and what we were up to, and and then we went home and got tools and came back and and did a lot of work on the Bigelow range and and Roy Fairfield got wind of this and said, Wait, we did not know the main Appalachian Trail uh club existed. We did not know the Appalachian Trail Conference existed. Uh but we were contacted because of what we wrote in the register at Horns Pond. And uh it was actually the fall of nineteen fifty-six uh Roy Fairfield made the assignment to my brother and me. Um and I kept it up six you know, fifty-nine years.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

And I I believe that you uh you you were president of the Maine AT Club for a while and uh I was overseer in Western Maine for ten years, I was president for ten years.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

I have served on the executive committee of the club since 1967. Uh when I stepped down as president, I created the job of Corridor Monitor Coordinator, which we call overseer of of uh lands. Now it's manager of land. We've we've gotten rid of the overseer word. All the overseers became managers. Um but I've I've been on the executive committee of the club since 1967.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

And you have a pretty extensive history with Appalachian Trail Conservancy, formerly AT Conference.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

I was elected in 1979 and was on the board for 26 years, including 10 years as secretary and and six years as chairman of the board. I chaired the committee that wrote the new constitution that went into effect in in uh what 2004-2005. Um because the ATC Executive Committee members were chosen from officers and also one representative of each of the three regions. I was chosen from the so I was on the executive committee for 26 years, too. A lot of trips to Harvest Ferry.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Um so uh, I mean, uh I I try not to throw around the term uh living legend too uh freely, but you're you're truly a living legend on uh on on the AT. Another thing I wanted to talk about was Baxter State Park. Can can can uh Janice, could you please start uh and describe Baxter State Park and how what it is and how it differs from most state parks that that uh our listeners might experience?

SPEAKER_00 32:03

And thank you for bringing that question up because a lot of our through hikers have been through many state parks, but they they don't realize that while Baxter State Park carries that title, it's not your run-of-the-mill park that is that is uh managed by the state. So Governor Percival Baxter, as Dave said earlier, uh made it his mission to preserve uh Catatan because it is such an iconic land feature, um, very recognizable, at least to all of us who who live in Maine. Um and and it was under threat from paper companies and developers, uh paper companies used and and power companies, paper companies used to log up as far as at least as far as um Basin Pond uh close to Chimney Pond and perhaps even further up, and I'm not positive on that, but Governor Baxter made it his mission to acquire uh the mountain and then to acquire the the land around it. And some of his means were um rather devious at times. Um he was a he was a businessman, his father had been a businessman in Portland, and and Percival learned some of the the tactics, I think. So there, I don't remember exactly how many parcels there were. I have seen a patchwork quilt um that the Friends of Baxter has created that shows each of the the parcels. Um and and some of those have been added even as much as 20 years ago. He then set up deeds of trust and a a governing board um and that is separate from the state, although it has some state officials. And then I believe it was in the early 60s. Uh I can remember going to Baxter Park as a child, and there weren't as many rules as there there are today, or at least I didn't think there were, but Governor Baxter uh created the park authority, and he deeded the park over to the people of the state of Maine. And there is a plaque at the beginning of the the hunt trail, a great huge rock, uh, with the quote from Governor Baxter that um Qatarden will forever be uh will belong to the people of the state of Maine. Um it has it has a superintendent, it has some other internal officials, but it is governed by an by a Baxter Park Authority. Dave, three people.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Um it's the Attorney General and the head of the Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife. Uh the chief forester, who at the time backed to set this up, was the head of a forestry department that no longer exists. Um, but that's basically it.

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Right. And and they meet on a regular basis, consider any of the issues that are going on. Uh one of our district managers is on their board, um, Herb Fithian. Um, but but it is totally separate from the state of Maine in its government at least. And the stipulations that are in the the contract uh for the park were set by by Governor Baxter. So it's not it's not uh that that somebody is making up rules as they go. Uh it will be forever wild. Uh there's a limited number of trails, there's a limited number of roads, there's a limited number of campsites.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

What was really important was he established a large endowment.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

So the park receives no tax money. It runs entirely off income from you know people buying campsites and so forth, and the endowment.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

And there aren't the improvements that that one would normally find in a state park, correct? Uh no no electricity and and things like that, correct? Uh elaborate on that, please.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

So it is forever wild. Um the campsites, the campsites are are rudimentary. Um there are some campgrounds that have buildings. Uh there are some lean twos, there are some tent sites. Um one of my favorite places in the park is an area around Russell Pond. It's a seven-mile walk to get there. Um and uh you can always find moose in the pond, but there no, there's no electricity. Uh the the park officials maintain contact with um by radio. Um snowmobiles by by public are not allowed. Uh they do use some snowmobiles in the winter time for some maintenance and um in in case of rescue, I believe. Uh and again, Dave, you probably have more information, more accurate information than I do on that.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

There's been a lot of battles over snowmobile access to the road. Um, but the the park is has held out against it. ATVs are strictly prohibited.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Right. They do allow bicycles.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Uh and they are the ones who set the rules, uh, the calendar, for example. Uh Southbounders cannot start on their southbound journey until the Baxter Park officials open the trails on Katain. And and that depends entirely on the climate, on the weather, on what the conditions are on the trail, because the intent is to protect those trails. The same thing in come October. We will have northbounders who will be trying to make sure that they get to summit Catahdan. It used to be October 15th. I think they are they have been a little bit more flexible on that, but um after after the trails on Catatin are closed, you need to go to winter rules, which means equipment and uh designates the the size of the group that you have with you and and needing special permits. Um I was in Baxter Park about two weeks ago when the when the um the ridgerunners did their training and and the Baxter Park people explained to the to the Ridge Runners what all their rules are, where everything is. Um and we we try, we've been trying very hard, and especially in the last 10 years, to make sure that that we and that by we I mean MATC and ATC educate our hikers to respect the regulations for Baxter Park. Uh they have set aside a campsite for hikers, uh for long-distance hikers. You have to have done, you have to have hiked at least from Monson to be able to stay there. Um there are, I think they said there are 12 places at the birches. The the the wardens work, uh the the rangers work with the hikers to make sure that they have a good experience when they do hike, but there's a lot of preparation and a lot of paperwork that goes back and forth to make sure that things are done properly and that we maintain good relations with the park.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Uh thanks. Uh it's it's worth pointing out that there have been some sort of controversies between people finishing their through hikes and the uh rangers because uh mostly because of celebrations on top of Casodin. And it's I think it's worth pointing out right, and the group size. And I think it's worth pointing out that the Rangers are that these are not rules that the Rangers have made up, these are restrictions in the deed of trust that they are enforcing, that they must enforce. Uh because uh uh Baxter is a unique place, and and there are there are limits as to how large the groups can be. And uh the emphasis is, as you said, on Baxter being forever wild and not having uh a lot of improvements, a lot of the traditional things that one might find in a normal state park. Um is there is there anything else that uh that you'd like to talk about concerning the uh the state of Maine, uh uh the beautiful section that you folks maintain or and the uh the Maine Appalachian Trail Club?

SPEAKER_00 42:11

When I listened to the to the text of um what I said last November, we have a lot of people who come to Maine to work for us and who end up staying. Um our vice president uh came as a ridge runner about 10 or 12 years ago and fell in love with the state and is still here. Uh as I sat talking with our with my ridge runner uh last Saturday, he said he has fallen in love with the state of Maine and is kind of given up. He's he's been acting accepted for a program at Harvard for starting next January, but he's now re-evaluating and thinking that he if there was a way to come back to Maine and live, um, he would do that. Several people on our trail crew have have decided to live in Maine. Uh we are different. Um, we are much more remote, we're much more relaxed, um not as not as many services perhaps um as in in other more metropolitan areas, but the the quality of life is uh something that many of us value.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Two items that should be added to the story, I think. Um I was president from 1977 to 1987, and the the central part of my tenure was relocating more than half of the Appalachian Trail in Maine. Um and his crews had laid out trail on many, many miles of old logging roads. Um, they had to do it to get things done in time. Um, we relocated more than half, and it was all through unbroken forests. So it was a completely different uh job. After the relocations wrapped up, which really went into the 1990s, um the thing that became really apparent was that use was increasing, the wear and tear on the footpath was significant. Lester Kenway uh gets credit. We we had SCA crews for a few years, and then Leicester put together what we call the force crew, the the footpath recovery crew, which is now just the main trail crew. And one of the major achievements of last year was completion of a trail crew center in Scowhegan. So we now have a building, a headquarters where the crew can can uh gather and hang out and get their tools take showers and and do their laundry, yeah. In between field trips. So this is a huge change. We had been renting places on old farms. Uh, for several years, we had a rental place that was accessible only by raft. You had to row out to it. So having this new trail center uh is wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Great. Well, I want to thank both of you, uh Janice and and Dave, for uh spending some time with us. And we've we've really had a great opportunity to learn about about the state of Maine, uh the Appalachian Trail in Maine, and uh and the wonderful work that you do at the Maine Appalachian Trail Club. Thanks so much. Thank you.