Don't Climb the Leadership Ladder, Burn It

For years, leaders have been told to climb the ladder, seek the next position, and pursue greater influence. But what if the goal isn't climbing the ladder at all? In this episode, Kevin challenges the traditional leadership mindset and explores a different path: servant leadership. 

Colossians 3:23
1 Timothy 6:6
Philippians 2:3

Series: Lessons in Leadership
Speaker: Kevin Moore
Episode: 3 of 4, Don't Climb the Leadership Ladder, Burn It
Episode Transcript: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2627823/19571441-don-t-climb-the-leadership-ladder-burn-it/transcript

Kevin Moore is the regional director at the North Central Region of the Missionary Church and the senior pastor at Noble County Community Church. 

Let's Talk: Life, Leadership & Making Disciples is a weekly Christian leadership development podcast for pastors, church staff, elders, ministry leaders, volunteers, church planters and disciple makers. Every week we provide valuable insights to train, inform and inspire healthy leaders who will go on to build healthy churches.
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The Missionary Church, North Central Region, in obedience to Jesus Christ her Lord, is committed to being holy people of God in the world and to building His church by worldwide evangelism, discipleship, and multiplication of growing churches, all to the glory of God. As a family of churches that is biblically grounded, we exist to inspire, challenge, and resource one another in that task. Find out more at https://mcncr.org/ 

Elevate Church Leadership Conference.
November 2, 2026
Nappanee Missionary Church in Nappanee, Indiana
Learn more and sign up at https://mcncr.org/events/2026-elevate-conference 

The Timothy Project (Youth Leadership Conference)
November 14, 2026
St. Mark Missionary Church in Mishawaka, Indiana
Learn more and sign up at https://mcncr.org/events/the-timothy-project 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to Let's Talk, a podcast about life, leadership, and making disciples. Let's Talk is brought to you by the North Central Region of the Missionary Church, where we want to empower everyday people to love like Jesus and live like missionaries. To find out more about our events and ministries, go to mcncr.org.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Well, hey, Kevin Moore here. Thanks so much for joining us for Let's Talk. I'm the regional director here at the North Central Region, as well as your host of this podcast. And once again, I'm so honored that you are joining us, whether for the first time or if you're a regular, we hope that you will subscribe to this podcast and share it with a friend. Listen, don't be a stingy leader. Share this content. Share this stuff because it's going to help you and others, you and the people you lead, you and the people you know live better, lead better, and make more disciples. Hey, before we get into our content for the day, which I'm very excited about, by the way, today I want to talk with you about something really cool that's happening around the region. We at the region, we obviously want to make disciples and raise up leaders. And one of the ways that we do that is through church planting. And in September of last year, uh our church plant from Ignite Community Church started meeting in Albion on Sundays every single week. They'd been doing house groups before that, and they were planted out of Noble County Community Church. But in September of last year, they started meeting weekly. And since then, God has done some amazing things through them, through their leadership, and through their people. Since September, they have baptized 20 people. That's listen, 20 people have been baptized since September of 2025. God is doing some great things in Albion, and He wants to shine a bright light through Albion and through that team. And so let's continue to pray for Ignite Community Church. Let's also continue to pray for Pastor Gran Roberts and his entire team. And let's pray not only for Albion, but let's pray for the other cities, the other towns, the other villages, the other hamlets, if you will, these small areas of northern Indiana and southern Michigan. Let's pray that God would raise up leaders that are called by God to plant healthy churches that make disciples, that make disciples. So, Pastor Grant and the Ignite team, we are praying for you. Thank you for stepping out in faith. Thank you for partnering with us. Thank you for letting God use you. And we know that He is just getting started. Hey, if you would like to find out more about church planting, if you are a potential church planter, you've got this urge, this nudge inside of you to plant a church, we we would like to have a conversation with you. If you are a church that wants to parent a church, the church that I pastor, Noble County Community Church, we we parented and our parenting Ignite Community Church, and we're looking at what does it look like to now do it do another plant. If you're like us and and you have a desire to parent a church, to be a church that plants churches, we would like to help you. There's an organization called CMTC. It's through our missionary church. We at the at the North Central Region, we are a part of this organization, and we would like to have you lean in, find out more about CMTC, find out more about the church planting training boot camp, find out more about the parenting training boot camp, and see how you can begin to take your next step. So here's what I want you to do: go to MCUSA.org forward slash CMTC. MCUSA.org forward slash CMTC. And you can find out more about the church planting boot camp as well as the parenting boot camp. Listen, when it comes to planting, when it comes to everything, you shouldn't do it alone. You can't do it alone. But when it comes to church planting, whether you're parenting a church or you are actually the one planting the church, you need partners. I know from experience on this. That's an all of the podcast, but you need partners. And the missionary church, specifically CMTC through the missionary church, is a great partner for you. And we would love to come alongside of you. So, hey, without further ado, let's introduce our topic. Today we're talking about don't climb the leadership ladder. Burn it. Don't climb the leadership ladder. Burn it. What do I mean by that? Well, grab a notebook, grab a pencil, and let's find out. Well, as usual, it's always an honor to speak with you here on the Let's Talk Podcast. Today I'm excited about our topic because I'm going to give you probably an unusual title, maybe a title you never heard of before. And here's what it is don't climb the leadership ladder. Burn it. I'm going to say it again. Don't climb the leadership ladder. Burn it. If there is such a thing as a leadership ladder, we should not strive to climb the thing. We should just go ahead and burn it down. So let me tell you a story. I spent eight years of ministry of my life serving as a volunteer youth pastor. Small rural northern Indiana churches. Loved it. I was a draftsman. I worked at a local home builder to provide for my family. But for years, I had the dream of becoming a full-time youth pastor. Man, I started thinking to myself, man, a day. If I was full-time, if I was full-time, I could take my teenagers to youth camp. I could take them to retreats. I could actually go to conferences. Man, I'd get to hang out with other full-time youth pastors and learn from them and ask them questions. Man, I whenever I get to be full-time, my whole schedule is going to change. I'm going to go to a whole new level. I was so excited about having the opportunity to be a full-time youth pastor, getting to take my kids to camps, getting to take my kids to retreats, hanging out with other youth pastors that are farther down the road from me so I can learn from them. I was so excited. And in the year 2000, our home church was able to bring us on staff. We've been serving there as volunteers at this particular church for four years. And we're serving and we're serving. And finally, the church was financially able to bring us into a full-time staff position. And I was so thankful. I was so thankful to the pastor. I was so thankful to the church board for taking that leap of faith, for bringing us on. The church was around 150 people at the time and a community of about 4,000. So they so to hire, to hire a full-time youth guy at a church that size and a community that size, it was a big step. It was a step of faith. It truly was. But they took the chance. They took the chance, and I was finally a full-time youth pastor. Man, I was stoked. Good night, I was stoked. Well, that summer, that summer I had the chance to take my small group of teenagers to our denominational summer camp. Oh, I was looking forward to it. I was looking forward to hanging with my youth and seeing God move in their life. But I got to be honest, one of the things I was really looking forward to was sitting down and asking some veteran youth guys some questions because I was hungry. Man, I was hungry to grow. I was hungry to learn. And I knew these guys, they've been there, they've done that. I just need to sit down and talk to them a little bit, ask them some questions. So I literally arrived at camp with a notebook that had a list of youth pastors' names written in it that I wanted to learn from in the next five days. I was the new guy. I was from a small church and small town, only had a small group of kids coming, but boy, I was ready to learn. I'll never forget. I'll never forget coming up to one of the big-time veteran youth pastors at the camp. And he, I remember he was walking down the road and getting ready to cross the bridge and go on to his next meetings. But we're in between sessions, and so I ran up behind him and I said, Hey, hey, hey, my name is my name's Kevin Moore. And I was wondering if I could if I could set a time this week to maybe take five, 10, 15 minutes of your schedule to just ask him some questions about youth ministry. You've got a group of 200, and man, I'd really like to learn from you. Well, the youth pastor looked at me, quite honestly, with this uninterested look on his face, and he replied, Well, walk with me and ask me your questions while we're walking. So I felt like this little kid, but this was the only chance I had I would get. So I asked him a few questions while we walked down the road. He he never stopped, he never looked at me, he never gave me a sincere answer. I'll be honest, I felt like I wasn't worth his time. I was a little guy from a little town. He was the big guy who was helping literally run the camp. He was farther, way farther up the ladder than I was, and quite honestly, he was too busy to give me any of his time. Well, over the next five days, I tried to meet with other youth pastors on my list, and all of them except for one gave me the same type of response. Walk with me while we talk. Sure. I got I got two minutes, man. What you got? One of them just outreplied, Well, maybe later I I can't do it right now, brother. And just kind of walked away. All these leaders were at larger churches than I was. All these leaders had much higher positions than I had in the denomination. All the leaders were too busy for the little guy from the little town with only a few kids in the group. Now next year, our student ministry exploded in growth. We we we grew um from a few students to more more than 200 in in just a year. And that that next summer, when we went to camp, we were not only one of the largest groups at camp, we were one of the largest ministries in the state. And I gotta be honest, I was blown away when I arrived. Because those same guys, those same guys who would not give me the time of day the previous summer, were now coming up and asking me, hey, where are you sitting for lunch, brother? Hey, where are you sitting for lunch, Kevin? Hey, why don't you come sit with us? Hey, Kevin, if you got a few minutes, I was wondering if you could talk to me about what you're doing down there in Ligonier. I'd I'd love to hear about it. I hey Kevin, I got a ministry ID. I wanted to run by you. I was shocked. I was floored. And I wanted to ask him, hey, bro, you you didn't have time for me when I was the little guy on the totem pole. You didn't have time for me last year. Why do you have time for me now? Now, of course, quite honestly, I didn't do that, but man, I felt like it. See, for for me, if if if there's one thing, if there's one thing I despise in leadership, it's the ladder. The ladder. One rung, two rung, three rungs, go as high as you can. And here's my advice for you. Don't climb the leadership ladder. Burn it. Burn the thing. Through the years, I I guess in some ways I've been at the quote unquote bottom of the proverbial ladder. And I guess in some ways I've climbed the proverbial steps of the ladder. But here are a few things that I've learned first. Here's some things I've learned firsthand about that leadership ladder. Number one, the view at the top is not what you think it would be. The view at the top is not what you think it's going to be. When you climb the ladder and you get that promotion, you accept that job, you get the bigger place or the dream corporation or the dream ministry that everyone would die to have, you quickly see that the view is a lot different than what you thought it was going to be. You still have to go home every night, you still have to pay the bills, you still have to do meetings, deal with people, raise your kids. Life is not all that different a few rungs up the ladder. I'm gonna say that again. Life is not all that different a few rungs up the ladder. The view is not what you think it's going to be. That's number one. The second thing I've learned is, man, some someone's always got a taller ladder. Even if you climb all the way to the top of the ladder, if you climb to the ladder and become full-time out of church, someone else has a bigger church. If you climb the ladder and get to the position that works, someone else has a better paying position. If you climb the ladder and you know this really great um leader personally, you know what? Someone else has a bigger name, a larger ministry, a more recognized leader that they know. Someone else always has a top, a taller ladder. So here's the truth. The view is never what you think it's going to be at the top of the ladder, and someone else always has a taller, taller ladder. Because of that, grab a match and just burn the ladder. Don't worry about it. Here's three passages that I literally want you to memorize that will help you put your heart into what God has placed into your hands and stop caring about what rung of the ladder you're standing on. Colossians 3 23 says, Whatever you do, work heartily for the Lord, not as men. Listen, whether you are full-time, part-time, a volunteer, do what God has placed in front of you with all your heart. Do it specifically for God. Do it specifically for his attention. Don't focus on who's watching. You do what you do and you focus on doing what you're supposed to do. Let God take care of the rest. First Timothy 6 6 says, But godliness with contentment is great gain. What if what if you were simply content with doing what he has currently given you to do? What what if instead of trying to do more, why not just strive to do what you do better? Just do it better. Here's a third here's a third passage, Philippians 2, 3. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let me let me ask you today, why are you leading? Why are you serving? Why do you want that position? Why do you want to lead? What are your motives? Is your motive to gain the attention of others? If you're a ministry, is your motive to get if you're in the ministry, is your motive to get on the speaking circuit? If you're in business, is your motive to stay where you are until a bigger position comes available? What what what's your motive for what you're doing? See, there is such there is unbelievable joy that comes from just putting your head down and putting your heart into the things that God always placed into your hands. Don't worry about climbing the ladder. Do what He gives you to do the best you possibly can. When it comes time for a promotion, whatever that might look like, God will take care of it. This is something I tell my kids all the time. Put your heart into what God has placed into your hands, and you never have to worry where your feet are. Just put your heart into what God has placed into your hands, and you'll never worry about where your feet are. God will take care of that. So, as we always do, here's some questions for you at the end. Where are you chasing a rung more than faithfulness? Is there a title, a platform, a crowd, a certain amount of pay, recognition? Where are you chasing a rung instead of just being faithful? When you get overlooked or when you've been overlooked, do you get discouraged, resentful? Or or do you do you stay steady? And and what does your reaction reveal about motives? Here's another question. What would change right now if you worked heartily for the Lord? Even when no one else notices, even when you you don't tweet about it, yeah, I know it's called X now, but you don't X about it, you don't social Instagram about it, you don't Facebook, you just you just did it. What would change if you just put your head down and worked heartily for the Lord? What would happen? And here's the last two. These these are big ones. Where are you comparing your ladder to someone else's? Where are you comparing your ladder to someone else's? And then lastly, what would burning the ladder look like for you this week? What would it look like for you to burn the ladder? For me, it looks like this. I'm gonna put my heart into what God has placed into my hands, and I'm not gonna worry about where my feet are. God takes care of that. Listen, it's an honor to speak with you on this podcast. I can't wait to speak with you next time. Thanks so much for listening to Let's Talk. We hope you enjoyed this content on Don't Climb the Leadership Ladder, burn it. Don't climb the leadership ladder, burn it. Just do what God has called you to do. If people watch, they watch. If they don't, they don't. If you get promoted, you get promoted. If you don't, you don't. God takes care of all of that. Just put your heart into what God's placed in your hands. And you know what? You'll never have to worry about where your feet are. Hey, here at the North Central Region, we want to help you live better, lead better, and make more disciples. If you haven't, if you haven't checked out our Elevate conference with Carrie Newhoff, make sure that you go to our website. If you haven't checked out the Timothy Project for youth leaders, adult leaders, as well as teenage leaders, go to our website, mcncr.org, check the events button, and you can find out more about those conferences and things that we have that are going to help you live, lead, and make disciples. Hope this helps. Can't wait to speak with you next time.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Thanks for joining us for Let's Talk. If you have any questions, topics you want us to discuss, or a story you want to share, email us at info at mcncr.org.