My DV story with Nikki Schmidt- Gabby Petitos Mom

In this episode, Tiffany Kline shares her personal journey as a domestic violence survivor, highlighting the importance of Domestic Violence Awareness Month. She discusses her experiences with abuse, the signs to look for, and the impact of the cycle of violence with Nikki Schmidt, Gabby Petitos Mom. Tiffany emphasizes the need for support systems, the role of law enforcement, and the significance of sharing stories to empower others. She offers advice for those in abusive situations and stresses the importance of healing and finding strength to move forward.

• Tiffany Kline is a domestic violence survivor who shares her story.
• Domestic Violence Awareness Month is crucial for raising awareness.
• Recognizing the signs of abuse is essential for prevention.
• The cycle of abuse can be difficult to break without support.
• Law enforcement often lacks the resources to help victims effectively.
• Healing from abuse is a journey that requires support and self-reflection.
• Sharing stories can empower others and create a ripple effect of awareness.
• It's important to have a safety plan when leaving an abusive relationship.
• Being a good bystander can help someone in need.
• Compassion and understanding are key in supporting victims of abuse.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of True Crime with Tiff Klein. Today is episode number three. And because October is domestic violent awareness month, I thought we would segue into that month. But I wanted to let you guys hear the interview that I did back in March with Gabby Bettito's mom, the amazing Nikki Schmidt. I adore her. I've gotten to know her over the past year and a half, and um as well as Jo Jim and Tara, but more so Nikki. I talked to her almost every day. She's a sweetheart, she's funny, and I I just admire her, her strength and perseverance and getting up every day. And I know it's hard. So again, back in March, I had the pleasure of being interviewed by Nikki Schmidt, Gabby Petito's mom, and she let me have a safe space. It was the first time in 17 years that I really told my story. Um I didn't really tell many people, maybe a few, but never in detail. And um, I had two abusive relationships. One was physically, mental, emotional, verbal, financial, and the next one was narcissistic. And narcissistic one was that was worse. It was worse and it was harder to recover from, but I made it to the other side a year later. Here I am. And I've done a lot of soul searching and a lot of time alone. I didn't go out and replace the void with somebody else. So I went through therapy, I did the work, I focused, I figured out what's what matters most to me because I didn't want to repeat the same mistakes and stay in a toxic cycle. So it's very important for me to find my ground and fall in love with myself again and my life and get my goals and ambitions back. And I I think I had a pretty damn good year with my support system that I had. I had a, you know, my career of almost seven years with radio marketing, and my friends really stepped up and I really found out who they were. Um and I just I couldn't have made it without them. I would have. It just would have taken me a lot longer. I'm a very resilient person, but this one, this past relationship really fucked with me and um it fucked with me for six years, and I'm on the other side and I'm thankful for it, and I'm happy now. And um, you know, when you get trash out of your life, things shine and you find treasure and um but it didn't hold me back and I'm I'm very resilient and I also persevere and I am very invested in the Gabby Petito case. In 2021, Gabby was found on September 19th, and I fell to my kitchen floor and cried because I realized in that moment it could have been me. I too was a social media influencer. My ex wanted to travel in a van and I wouldn't co-sign and I got strangled for it, and my shit was thrown all over the lawn, and um I left my family overnight to be with him back in 2009, and I moved to another state, and um, there's a lot of similarities. And when I when I saw that they found her, I just went, oh shit. Like that it was coming next for me. It really was, and I'm I'm I'm just so proud of myself, and we're allowed to be proud of ourselves. It doesn't make us a narcissist or egotistical, but I've come a long way and I've like I said, I've done the work and now I recognize toxicity and red flags, and I'm not gonna subject myself to that ever again. I don't I don't care. I'd rather be alone the rest of my life than than be miserable again. So I wanted to bring this episode to light because back in March, Gabby's mom gave me a safe space to tell my story. And I when you hear me, I'm probably all over the place, but it's the first time I was ever speaking about being abused, and it was the first time that people like my family and my friends were gonna hear it. A few friends knew like the details, which I didn't really go into in this. I might do a part two later um and really give you the full details of what it entailed. This was just a basic transition of telling you how I got to where I am, but I just wanted I do want to make a point to say if you are in immediate danger, please call 911. Um, you can visit the National Domestic Violence Hotline. Um go to the hotline.org. You could chat, you could text, you can call 1-800-799-Safe. Um, you can also go to the Gabby Potito Foundation, and they have a whole section under Find Help for Safety Planning, how to support victims, the National Domestic Violence Hotline, National Center for Victims of Crime, Brain, which is the National Sexual Assault Hotline, Domestic Shelters.org, International Resources. Um, I volunteer with the Gabby Potito Foundation. I had the pleasure of sponsoring and volunteering at their second annual golf tournament in Long Island in June. It was a blast. Um, and then I I got to spend some time with my friends, Gabby's parents in um Denver a few weeks ago at Crime Con. And we sat around the fire pit, had some drinks, relaxed under the stars. It was beautiful. I had a great weekend. And I will get to see them again hopefully soon. If not, I'll see them at the next fundraiser. I don't live far from Long Island on like three and a half hours. So if they do events there, they know if I'm free, I'll go. But um, as a domestic violence survivor, I'm really passionate now. And it's my job. It's my job to talk and use my voice and help other people and and maybe try to save a voice. And if I reach one person with my podcast and it saves one person, then that I did my job. Um, it's a ripple effect, it's a chain reaction, and it's just very important that we talk. And I'm not I'm not gonna feel ashamed. It doesn't make me a bag of emotional shit. I'm not broken, I am not toxic, I'm not neurotic, I'm not crazy, I'm not uncapable of loving. If anything, I'm more empathetic and I'm more loving towards others. And my abuse stories don't define who I am today. They're a part of my life, they're a part of where I am at today and how I got here, and it made me a stronger person. And a lot of people would have crumbled and fucking broke broken down if they went through the shit I went through for a combined 17 years. You know, there was a little bit of a space in between, but I got up every day and I still went to work. I got up every day and I gave it my all. And I had my hard times. I did, I had my days. I still do once in a while, but I have a lot better happy days now than I used to, single than I when when I was with somebody. So I just want to let you know if you're a victim, if you're a survivor, there is hope. There is a rainbow on the other side. You have to want it for yourself. Nobody can make you leave an abusive relationship except for you. And the most dangerous time you leave, well, the most dangerous time in a domestic violence relationship is when you try to leave. And you go back seven to ten times on average, and nobody can understand it. And people are gonna say, Well, why did why did you stay? Oh, you must like being abused. Why don't you just leave? Let's change the narrative. Instead of victim shaming, how about you find the abusers and say, Why are you a piece of shit? Why are you a scumbag? Don't put the shame on the victim. Stop asking them why they don't leave. Go to the abuser and say, Why are you a fucking piece of shit? You're a scum. Change the narrative and start calling these assholes out. I do. I don't care. People know it. And I my my guard is up now. Like your first impression is probably gonna be your only impression with me moving forward. I I don't have time and energy to be given out multiple passes and and um forgiveness and sticking around to hope hope that they change. No, no, not doing it. I'd rather be alone. So I just wanted to give a little bit of insight to this. So again, if I'm all over the place in this interview, please don't mind me. It was my first time speaking again. This was March 2025. Um, I probably will do an episode number two tonight, maybe to go into the actual details of my life and my abuse. But I hope you enjoy and learn something, and I hope you use your voice too to help others and share this podcast episode again. October's National Domestic Violence Awareness Month. And episode four is going to be about the Britney Phillips case. She was murdered in 2004 in Tulsa, Oklahoma. So I've had the pleasure of meeting her mom Maggie through the internet. And we were at Crime Con together, but unfortunately, we just didn't cross paths. So I'm I'm hoping to meet her in person in in Vegas at the next Cremcon in 2026. Um so that'll be next week. I will start talking about cases. Um, I'm just not gonna do it all the time because I feel like there's more to crime than just missing people and domestic violence. So I'm gonna I'm gonna sprinkle little things here and there, but the the gist of it is true crime. I had started a business years ago called Klein's Corner, and people call me Tiff Klein, like Ricky Bobby. I don't know why, so that's why I just stuck with that because I had already branded myself that way. But I want to thank you all for listening and I'm going to lead in again. This was March 2025, being interviewed by Gabby Petito's mom, Nikki Schmidt. All right, I'm Tiffany. I'm a domestic violence survivor. I left my first domestic violence relationship in 2018, and I currently have surviving another one I left in October 2024. Different types of abuse. So it's important that people know both of them. Who I was before the abuse, I was Tiffany, but I was 19, turning 20. I wanted to be a lot of things. I wanted to be a mortician, I wanted to be a teacher, I wanted to be a radio DJ. I had all these aspirations of um things I just wanted to do, and I couldn't settle on one thing, but I knew I always wanted to help people my whole life. My mom was a Girl Scout leader, and you know, my mom always had a soft spot for helping kids and those that are, you know, in need. And my mom was also a domestic violence survivor 15 years. She left when I was nine. So I got a great stepfather, bonus dad, and um he's he made my life so much better. And I'm thankful every day for him. Um his name's Ralph. He's been watching the documentaries and educating himself. But I remember growing up being like, I'll never let that happen to me. That won't happen to me. You know, like I just that mentality of that can't happen. I won't let it. It does. Um, and I don't know if it was repeating things that were familiar or if it was just I landed in that type of situation. So I was very outgoing, chip on my shoulder. You know, it was a takeover of the world, nothing would get in my way. Ambitious. Went to college in Kentucky for a little bit and then met my ex on Facebook. I mean, it was an app kind of like Tinder back in 2009. It was called Are You Interested? And you would literally swipe. That's it, was just it literally was Tinder on Facebook. Nobody really remembers it. Um, and I saw he was from where my grandfather was born and raised in Dunmore, Pennsylvania. So he was he was living somewhere around there. Um and I was like, oh, that's a small world. So I swiped yes, not really thinking. And then we were got to talking and chatting. And about two months later, I drove from Ohio to Pennsylvania with my friend and met him and met his parents for three, three or four days. I went back out to Ohio. He came out two weeks later and I moved back with him in May. So I met him online in March, met him in person in in April, and then moved to Pennsylvania with him in May. So it was very quick. Um, I did see him as a ticket out of a small town. I I lived in a very rural area in Ohio. Like the nearest mall was like an hour and a half away. I liked him for who he was at the time. And he was showing me the world that I wanted so badly, and I knew I wasn't gonna get it where I was living. So I was a little naive thinking someone can promise you the world and deliver a nightmare. So I got in a fight with my mom and left. Kind of, you know, I woke up one morning and was like, oh, I'm moving to Pennsylvania today and packed what I could, got in his car and I left. I gave my parents no time to process it. I didn't process it. And I wish looking back, I would have stopped and thought, wow, this is gonna change your entire life from this point on. But when you're 19, 20 years old, you don't you see an opportunity and you take it.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Um yeah, you're invincible.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yes. And I knowing that my mom had went through stuff and watched what she overcame, you think I would have knew the signs, but I didn't because she had removed me out of that when I was eight. So I really didn't see things in an abusive way that she would have. She met him, she didn't have anything against them when she met him. She didn't see any red signs at the time. But as time went on, she started seeing my biological father traits come out of them. And she would try to warn me, and I'd be like, whatever. Like, you don't know you're talking about, whatever. Like, I always give people the benefit of the doubt because that's what I always do, and I've learned from that. Um so it was very naive, very young, very immature, which is hopeful. You know, I wanted to I wanted a relationship. I was my second or third year in college, and I just wanted to change my entire life. I was I've I've always been independent. Like you asked me like who I was before. I was always an independent person, and I was always doing things on a spike to prove people wrong. So a part of me leaving was, you know, throwing my fingers up and being like, I'm gonna do what I want to do. No one's gonna stop me. And I wish not that like my mom was very strict because of her upbringing, and she did the best she could to keep me from getting pregnant, getting in a drug. She did a great job. And I always complained how strict she was. And sometimes I'm like, I wish you were a little less strict, but then other times I'm like, I wish she would have been more protective because she, you know, I was, and I know it's watched the Gabby stuff. I was an adult. She couldn't really stop me from going. And she didn't like the fact that I did, but she had no choice and I left. Um, my grandma and my dad kind of supported it, but they're they were like, you know, we're you always have a home to come home to. And my mom always said that. It was not like, oh, if you leave, you can't come back. My parents begged me to come back and I just wouldn't. So it wasn't until about I got there in May. It wasn't until about fall of that year. So October, maybe November of 2018 was when the abuse started. And when I started seeing the signs. So that's only May, June, July, that's only five or six months in. He completely hit it. You know, he was fun, outgoing, arming, you know, everybody liked him Life of the Party, Schmoozer. I saw a side that nobody else saw. So that had started that fall, and I remember the first, like, there was no sign leading up to it. It wasn't like, oh, there's something not right here. It just happened um out of nowhere. And I was watching a movie, and I remember all of a sudden I had a mirror thrown at me. I don't remember if it was on me or at me, but the glass was everywhere. I don't remember why. And it doesn't really matter why, but I don't know what started it. I don't know if he was pissed, if he was just if I said something. But I again I've blocked so much out that I don't, I don't remember. So again, I was 20, I had no friends here, no support system, no job, no car, no friends. I was by myself 100%. So he was my only source of, you know, socialization. I did work, but I would take the bus downtown. I just had no nobody. And his parents knew what was going on and they just looked the other way too, because it was easier for them because they dealt with him as a kid and how he was. He was actually in a um boy's home for a while because he was just so out of control. So they knew how he was, but they just looked the other way because they didn't want to deal with it. So that was really eye-opening of they see it, they hear it, they just look the other way.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

At this point, did you feel so all of a sudden these crazy things are happening? Did you feel like, oh shit, I'm stuck? Were you recognizing it, or were you kind of like confused? Um trying to get your frame of mind.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

I it's hard to pick up, but 15 years later, because you know, obviously if a lot's happened, um I remember sitting there being like, oh my god, like what the hell just happened? Like it was like zero to 16 a second and not knowing what to do. Should I call home? Should I just go home? What's gonna like what happened? I don't, I'm scared. Really, that's I mean, that's I that's all I do remember. And I did call my dad. Um, and I I was crying. And I remember telling him that Rainy threw something. I'm gonna cut his name out, that he threw something. And then um I heard my mom in the background yelling, like, I told you he was gonna do this, blah, blah, blah. And you know, like a mother knows best. Then after a few hours later, I called them and reassured them that it was okay. And that, you know, not that, you know, he threw the mirror. It wasn't at me. The glass just was around me. I made I made up this lie that he was just mad and threw something. He didn't actually hit me with it. Um, he did. Um, and that's all I remember about that first incident. But then I do remember the remorse the next day of making me breakfast, getting me flowers. I'm sorry, I won't do it again. I'm a piece of shit, blah, blah, blah. And that was the start of the first time I ever got in a cycle like that. So I thought he was being sincere because no one's ever treated me that way. So I was like, oh, he realizes what he did wrong. You know, it won't happen anymore. And it kept happening. And it happened for nine years. The stories I have, and I'm not afraid to go into detail, but it it's just how I survived that. And close to the end, I almost did not. So either he wouldn't have survived or I wouldn't have. And that's all I'm gonna say. It was, it was, it got, and I I wasn't even living with him at that point. It was still that bad. But the the years just I don't know how I'm here working, having a career, having fun, like getting the try I I don't know how I've survived it, but I always knew I was resilient. And I hate to say that, yes, your mom is always right. If I listened to her because she had lived it, I would have probably made different choices, but I also wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't make those choices. I don't regret anything. I mean, I if I could do it all over again, maybe I would have done it in a different way. Maybe I would have slowed down and got to know somebody before I just moved to a different state, you know, but I was impulsive. So there's just things that I can't do now, but I I could explain to other people.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

And it's still not your fault.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

No, no, I I never knew it. He didn't I never thought that it was. I never once said, like, I deserve this or I did something wrong. It was just I don't know how to get out. I think it just happens so much that it just chips away at you. And you just you're so afraid to tell somebody because you don't want to, you don't want to leave because you you want to fix them. You don't want to leave them alone because they need love and they need you to make their life better. So you don't, you feel like you're abandoning them. And that's the trauma bond. And I think that's a big reason why I never left, is because I felt so bad for him. But I was like, well, someone has to take care of this person, someone has to love them and show them that they're they're worth something. And then in in that cycle, it destroyed me and I lost my worth and my self-respect. No matter what I did, it wasn't enough. You know, he would just wake up with you could just tell on the color of his eyes that day what kind of day it was gonna be. They would literally change and I would just know what I was in for. So it was a very long, long night, long decade.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Is there a pivotal moment that you were like like the libel moment where you're like, I need to get out of here. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna make it out of out of life.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Yeah. Um, I will say there was many times where I was dragged across the house by my hair. I've had my clothes cut, I've had been chased by a knife, I've had my windshield smashed, my tires smashed. I told you all of this. Just so much. Black eyes, dislocated shoulders. And you think all of that would have said, get out, because you're probably not gonna make it. But the more it went on, it just got to a point where I was so tired of fighting it. And I had nothing. I had nothing for myself. And I'm like, why even bother? Why, where am I gonna go? I can't go home. I if my parents know this, they're literally going this guy's not gonna have like he's I don't want to know what I can and cannot say. If I tell my parents this is not gonna be a good outcome for him, like that's and I was afraid of what he was gonna do in return if someone knew what he did to me. Um, you know, he he was he grew up like that, but his parents swear that there was no abuse in the home. He was just the type of person he was. And every time he did it, it was a remorse story the next day. It was, I'm sorry, you know, and you just you start to feel bad because they're your only person you have in their life that so you just want to make sure they're okay. The moment that I thought to get out that that was it, there was a point in 2000, I'm gonna say 16 or 2017. There was a point I was sitting at home and I literally just packed my car in the middle of the night. And I was either gonna drive to a mental hospital or I was gonna drive to my mom's in Ohio. I went home. And then he manipulated me again to come come back to PA a month later. Um, and he drove out. So I don't, I think my car got rear-ended or something. So he came out and got me and brought me back. And I didn't talk to my mom for a long time for that. I think my mom knew what was going on, even I mean, she's been through it, but what could she do? I was an adult. So it wasn't, you're not going anywhere. She tried, and I was a young adult and it had a mouth on me, and it just I didn't listen, and I wish I did. But in the moment, you don't you don't think of that. I was ashamed to be back where I was living because I thought I failed, and then it was a shame to go back because I thought I failed in a relationship, so I just felt like I had no nothing. I don't even know how to explain it. But there was a time I thought, I'm either gonna take my own life or he's gonna take mine, and it had to make a decision, and I just went to my mom's. But again, I ended up back, and we know that it takes seven, eight, ten times before I actually leave. There was a lot of times I would pack my car and drive halfway across the state of Pennsylvania and then turn around and go back. Times I've gone out to Ohio for a few months and then I went back. And it was, you know, I wish I would have stayed home the first time. Um, because I wouldn't have ended up where I'm at today, but then again, I wouldn't be where I'm at today. So there's a I try to find the good of what I've learned from it. You know, I've like I've said, going back to the details, I've the things that have happened to me. Like I've had my keys, like he would, he would sit in my car and interrogate me for like 12 hours. And until he felt satisfied, I wasn't getting out of that car. I would lose jobs, I would go to work with no sleep. He almost ruined my graduation, he ruined every holiday. He just everything was just so bad and ruined birthdays. Nothing could be good. Always had to be about him and how he felt. And because he had nothing for him himself, he had to make everybody else that was achieving something. He had to play it down. Like when I started my own business client's corner, he just constantly he tried taking over because he saw it was starting to pick up. So he wanted control of that so he could have the credit. And restaurants wouldn't hire me because they knew he was vegan and he would go on their page after I would take photos and then like leave rotten reviews, calling them all these names. Like I couldn't have my own identity because he had to he had to be it. So when I left him, my business boomed and like it was like a like ha ha, I did it. I didn't need you. And like, look what I'm doing. And I didn't do it for him, I did it for me because that was my baby. And then now that I do the client's corner and I'm trying to do the um domestic awareness and stuff here at Northeast PA, it's almost like that same like I'm gonna do something. I'm gonna make a change, I'm gonna make it better. I've done it before, I can do it again. But now this time I don't have anybody. In my ear telling me I can't do it. I have myself telling me that I can. And I know I will. It's just a matter of the time. But I think with all of this, I saw my friend Jim, I couldn't do this or talk to you or talk to my friends who go through it if I didn't live through it. I don't feel like it's something that you could help somebody else with unless you know about it, you're educated about it, or you've lived through it. If you don't know anything about it, you can you just can't fathom the things.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

You know, do you have any um incidents where you called law enforcement? And how was your experiences with law enforcement?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

And I've called a few times by myself, right after once I called, you smashed my phone. They came and they couldn't do anything because we both both of our names were on the lease. And they usually they're like, we can't evict him, but you can leave. He just hit me. I have clearly have a black eye. Well, you can press charges. Let me do that because I'm fear for my life right now. Can you please remove him from this house? No, he's he's on the on the lease. So I don't know if that's a national thing or a Pennsylvania thing, but at the time they couldn't make him leave his own residence. But I had the free will to leave, yeah. Cause it's just, again, it's the ignorance of let me just leave, it's that easy. Um, and I didn't want to deal with going through court impression charges and then him getting out of jail, and then God, what's he gonna do now? Because now he's gonna be really angry. So it was just they them coming, doing their job, doing their paperwork, giving me a f pamphlet of saying, here's a resource center. Good luck. Really, I mean, that's all it was. And that happened every time I called, and he was very charming, laughing with the cops. They would try, they would almost, it's not that I don't think they didn't believe me, because clearly they would see me sweating from just adrenaline and I'd be soaked, you know, or red marks or bruises. It was more of just we really don't want to get involved and we don't know how to get involved and really don't know what to do except tell you to go to a woman's shelter. It's like because they weren't educated and they weren't experienced. So I I don't want to blame them, but as a law enforcement person, they should have taken it upon themselves to want to do more if they're if they really want to help people, you know. So I felt like they were just doing their job and clocked in and clocked out. That's all. And then, you know, sometimes my neighbors would call because they'd hear me screaming and crying and things breaking and same thing. They'd come out and it'd be, you know, a different cop this time, same story, same pamphlet, you know, good luck. And it just seemed to be the same. And then it got to a point like, why bother with them? Because they can't, they can only do so much. And every time I'm told that I can leave, well, you can go. Yeah, I I don't have anywhere to go or many money, or I'll just leave. Where do you want me to go? You know, but he could he could stay. There was no like, you gotta leave, and again, cut his name out. You gotta leave and go to your parents or go somewhere because like I had nobody here, and I would tell them that. It was just like a like my voice was never heard. I I don't know how else to uh explain that. It's frustrating. And I I get it now that I'm out of it and I'm older and I'm you know, I've educated myself more. I understand why they do what they do like that, but it's it's just frustrating because had they had arrested him or made him leave, maybe I would have had a night to think clearly or and just go home without him even being around and I could have just left, but he was there and I couldn't get away if he was there.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Um on that note, looking back, was there someone or is there something that someone in your life, or even if the police had responded that they could have said to you or done at the time to convince you that you needed to to get out of there?

SPEAKER_00 25:22

No. Every coworker I had, you know, I I it you get good at lying, you get good at really good at lying, and you you watch people and you see what they believe and what they don't believe, and you use that. Uh my coworkers would joke. I would come in like with a bruise on my arm and they'd be like, Oh, what would what did he do? Hit you like joking? I'd be like, No, like Bob, I would make up an excuse, but down deep inside, like, no, he really did. But they knew him who for who the show that he put on. So they were laughing because I didn't think he would actually do that. And I was too afraid to say, no, he actually did. So I don't know if people caught on and they didn't want to get involved, or they really just didn't put two and two together because I was really good at making up lies. And, you know, I did lose a lot of jobs because I couldn't function, or he would start a fight before work. I still made it through college working full time and made it through with honors. Don't I don't know how, but it was one of those things where I was like, he's not gonna take this away from me. But nobody at school, so you know, the little friends that I did have, nobody nobody said anything. Nobody and that back then, 2009 to 2016, but we had social media, but it's not like today. Like I didn't have all these Facebook groups and support groups and people on TikTok and YouTube, and I didn't know, like I knew people went through this, but I didn't know if they went through the same thing I did. So when I saw Gabby's story, I was like going down the list, and I'm like, holy shit, there's a lot of similarities here. And I'm like, if I had something like Gabby's story back then, I think I would have left the first time. But because it wasn't talked about, it wasn't broadcasted, it wasn't in your face all the time. People were so afraid that you're you're afraid. So, well, if people aren't talking about it, like I can't bring this up because it's back that old era of brush it under the rug from that generation where you don't talk about your dirty laundry, you know, outside of the home. And that's how it was, even in 2009. And a lot of people are like, well, it wasn't that long ago, but social media has evolved a lot since then. I just hit it and no, not one person asked me, even my family, not once. Are you okay? Are you in danger? Are you because I don't think they they knew me enough to know that I don't take shit from people and I don't lie. So I don't think that it was ever a red flag for them to think she's not okay until the end when my mom found out what he did. Then she knew he hit me once and it was at the end when I actually left him. But I don't think I never like this is the first I'm talking about all of this. She doesn't know what he's done to me, except that like I confronted him on cheating on me before like the last time before I moved out, and he punched me right in the face. And I lied to my friend and I said that I got in a car accident and I had to go get x-rays on my nose. My nose was so bad. And my mom knew because his mom told her um I was having gallbladder surgery, and my mom flew in for that because it was like an emergency surgery. And somehow they talked and wasn't coming to the hospital. And my mom got the information that he punched me in the face like the two weeks prior. I don't know how that conversation went, but I know she knew then, but she doesn't know anything else. My dad kind of knows a little bit, my brothers are a little bit. They look, they know more than my mom, but just try to stick up for myself. And then as soon as I left him and I was starting to see other people, then it was a problem, you know. Because if I can't have you, nobody can, which leads to me into the next. He did a lot, um, a lot of things, and I'm in therapy. I have a great therapist, trauma therapist. He's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Can I ask before you get we talk about your journey with your, you know, healing on the upside here? If you could tell people the red flags that you notice now looking back, you didn't notice them at the time, obviously. But when you look back, those very beginning red flags, maybe it was like even the first couple of times you met, is there things that you would have been like, This is this is too good to be true? Or, you know, he's he's schmoozing me because yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Yeah. Actually, I was talking to my dad Ralph about this the other night. He just finished the documentary on Netflix. And I said, I broke down certain parts. I said, Does this sound familiar? And he's like, Yeah. I'm like, Does that sound familiar? Yeah. He goes, I'm sorry, like I didn't see it before. And I'm like, Well, you do now. Like the the first thing was meeting me immediately, me being manipulated and talked into enough to not even process that he was asking me to move and leave my entire support system, my college, my dream, my goals, my friends, my family, and move 700 miles away from everybody. He never offered to move out to where I was. You know, he got me where he wanted me, constantly talking bad about my mother. You know, my mom was a good mom and constantly just putting her down, trying to get it in my head to make me think less of her because she was my support system. So over time, he made me think, see that the bad he made up things about her. He used this, like he used facts, but he did it in a way where he made it bad. So he almost brainwashed me into thinking all these things about my mom are bad. And then he started it on my brothers, and then he would start it on my stepdad. And that's where I draw the line because my stepdad stepped up and became the man and the dad that I needed. And I'm very defensive over him. Like I am rabid. So it was just very um quick, just fast, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

And I didn't even have time to process it. Like it was just come move in with me. I'm going to give you everything you want in this world. And you're 19, 20, thinking, yes, this is what I want.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

And yeah. And he was 21. And he was just, like I said, a ticket out of a small town. And I saw the world opening up when I met him. And I was like, exactly, I was like, yes, let's do this, without seeing looking at the consequences of what could happen because you're young. And then as time went on, you know, even the first few months, it was this insta instability, on yeah, instability of him couldn't, he was always having a bigger dream. It wasn't a stable job. It wasn't a goal of, you know, a long, a long goal. It was every other day he wanted to do this. And then he was changing his mind. He wanted to do this. And then he wanted to go live here. Go, and I every day it was something automatic, like all over the place. Yeah. And I'm a very structural person, and that was giving me a lot of anxiety because I'm like, I don't know what we're doing. Like, where are we gonna live? Like, and I can't say like that. I wasn't like homeless or anything. We always had our bills paid. I like that's the only thing I can give him credit for. But like, you never knew what his next adventure and plan was gonna be. And then he was one of those people who would just do it overnight, and he had nothing to lose. He had nothing to, you know, he had no kids, he had no, like he always worked for himself most of the time. So he could just pick up and go and do whatever he wanted. Um, and that was a constant battle, the entire relationship up until the last day. Like, just I wanted to work for a company, he wanted to work for himself, he wanted to live in a van. I didn't want to, he wanted me to co-sign a van for him. I didn't. He wanted to travel, live off the grid. And I came home and all my shit was on the lawn. Just, and then when I left, I went back a few times to get my mail, and he had hacked my Facebook and saw that I was seeing this other guy who was my most recent relationship, and then I slept with him and he strangled me and I saw black and I was on the ground. So it was okay for you to cheat on me all the time. I move out and actually try to go on with my life, and you strangle me. And that was the moment when I was done. Like I was like, this he's going to, this man's going to kill me. Like, legit. I was on the floor, and his dad was in the room right next to me, didn't even come in, heard, heard everything, did not even try to come in and say, you know, he he had to have heard me screaming, crying, and ran and and his son screaming, and then silence. Like, wouldn't that like trigger something to like what do you know that there's people in this world that do not intervene or don't care? Well, I I think he was afraid of him too, because he they've gone at it a few times and I I think and that I just left. I walked out again. I wasn't even really living there. But the the the person that I had just left, I was protecting and I got strangled for it because he was gonna go after him. And I was trying to put a wall like I was trying to protect this other person because this person's out of his mind and I'm almost getting killed, trying to protect this one. So that started a whole trauma bond with that one, and it it is just it's it's a lot. It's a lot to uh carry, but I do. But there there are many signs that I think the biggest one though was everything happening so fast and not thinking things through because now I'm one of those people I think everything through for a long time. I don't I don't I'm not as impulsive as I used to be or sporadic, spontaneous, because now I know there's consequences. Back then I just didn't I didn't think that could happen to me. And then I didn't think nobody does. So that was I think that that if that's the biggest thing I would people to look for is things that are not just unusual things. Just if you're a family member, is this typical? Like, is this a typical action this person would usually take? You know, are these the type of words type of are they usually like this? Like, look at the actions of the person that's going through this because their body language and lack of words are gonna give you more of an answer, I think, than you know, in hindsight. I can't blame my parents, they didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

I say the same thing, but look at the person that you know and love if their behavior changes, yes, if behavior is is going on. Like I'm sure that those mom gut feelings were there at times, but I always went with what Gabby was telling me. She wasn't with me physically, she was far away, like she was in Florida. I yeah, it's difficult, especially as a parent. So I'm sure your parents have this horrible feeling like, why couldn't I, why couldn't I save her from this? But again, you don't know what you don't know, and we're not educated.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

And it's it's yeah, and and I think being living 700 miles away was a hell of a lot easier hiding it from them than it was if I lived the next town over, or you know, down the street, even an hour away, because they couldn't actually see me. You know, they could only hear my voice or they could get a text. They couldn't see anything. So I could go two, three weeks with a black eye, they don't know. But my mom was born and raised in Jersey, and if she knew someone would have a baseball bet, that's obvious. Um, she would not have, she wouldn't have, she would, there's no way that if she knew what was going on, that she would have let to continue. She would have, she would have been up here in a heartbeat and she'd probably be in jail. Like I know that without her ever telling me that. Um, because she has told me in my past, like growing up, like if a guy ever hurts you, you know. Um, so I don't think she would ever blame herself because she knows I'm very stubborn and hardheaded and and I don't blame her, even though, like again, that's why different types of abuse she went through it, but she didn't see the signs with me. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

You know, people that manipulate are so good at it. And you know, you said you you're tough, you were tough. You were you're obviously very smart. I mean, it doesn't matter how wonderful of a person you are, how smart you are, if you're rich, if you're poor, it doesn't matter where you're from. Is this can happen to anyone? So I always try to reiterate that. It doesn't matter if you could have a doctorate, it somebody can be that good at manipulation.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Oh, yeah, absolutely. That I wrote that last night in my notes. It's like it doesn't matter your you know income, your your career, your gender, your age, your zip code, abuse happens everywhere, everywhere in the world. It might happen differently, everybody has a different story, but there's a pattern, there's a pattern to it if people pay attention. And those abusers are a lot alike. So if people start paying attention, that's why when again, Gabby's story, when I saw it, I I was in the kitchen. I remember I was cooking and I remember the first time I saw her flyer, and then I remember everything like things that were coming after. And when they found her, I fell to my floor in my kitchen and I cried. And my friend is like, Why are you so upset? And I was like, Because that could have been me. That that like it's the the van, I told you the van, the van life. I was a social media influencer. There were so many things, Nikki, that just and I was like, holy shit. Like I I left, but that could have because he wanted to drag me across the country and live in a van. And I'm like, you know, it to see that that and I don't know how to explain it for people to understand, and they don't have to, but her story made me realize like, you need to talk, you need to tell people this because the more people that know, even if it's one person, because that person's in a sort of chain reaction, and that person's gonna tell somebody, and that person's gonna tell somebody. And anytime you turn your head or you don't want to get involved, you you're you're helping their abuser, you're not helping that person. So her story just really just so similar that it made me feel safe to just start talking. I was, I can't be quiet about this anymore. Like, because when I saw the ripple effect, I was like, holy shit, like there's a lot of people in this world. And I wasn't alone. I just didn't have the resources or the the safety net. I had nobody to talk to. And I think that's the biggest, you know, you guys give a huge platform and the the network, you know, Justin Crime and all these other reporters and media and the bethoons and all these people you talk to, like they're giving everybody a safe space. And that is what I wish I had more than anything else, just a space to talk to somebody.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

I'm starting to see that that narrative change a little bit where more people are coming out telling their stories, more people are listening, and more people are wanting to learn. I just give that all that credit to Gabby. You know, like she's her light is just shining on on everyone and and wanting them to be safe. And she, you know, we're not gonna, we're not gonna stop what we're doing. Some people think that um, you know, survivor stories aren't meaningful. I I've heard a lot of creators and a lot of the media, they don't want to talk about these things. They want to talk about the sensational, you know, the end, what happened to the person because now they're no longer here. Let's talk about that story. They don't want to talk about the manipulation and the red flags and the abuse that goes on for years in some cases. And um let's let's change all that narrative and remind people that these homicides are preventable through these stories being shared so that people can understand it better. That's the problem, is people just don't understand it. And we need to make sure that people do understand it because you you can be a good bystander. We got to train bystanders. Everybody has a has a mission to help other humans on this earth. You know, if you're you don't think you're important enough, you can be like just knowing how to connect somebody to a service to get them help that they need is is a superpower. Yeah, so we want to arm everybody with these tools.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

So that's why I have like some allies right now, like my friend Jim. He's a survivor of narcissistic abuse from a female. You know, he's a male survivor, and and he's he and I have helped each other through this. And he uh this ties into it. Uh he and I didn't talk for two years because my ex was his best friend, and he had to cut my best friend out of his life because of the narcissistic abuse. And then me and Jim couldn't be friends because the ex common factor. And I chose the common factor over Jim because again, trauma bond. Jim didn't understand it until he went through it. And when we reconnected two months ago, I came to his house and it was like we picked up right where we left off. And he gave me a big hug and he cried and he's like, I'm sorry, because he did not, he always just he was like, Why don't you just leave? Why are you why are you putting up with this? And now he gets it. And it's like he felt bad, you know, and but he also felt good that we connected and we we needed each other. But he's helping people are gonna hate my Facebook. I know people are getting notifications like crazy, but that's just that's how I brained myself to get where I'm at. So I'm like, if you don't like it, delete me. Like, I'm not gonna not put something out there that's important because people don't like a notification. So Yeah, your niche is everybody. I I'm a huge advocate for kids with loss and trauma. So I'm like, I need to come up with a name, and I'm not there yet. So it's a temporary placeholder.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

But um What did that guy say the other on your Facebook post? I really liked it. Something corner.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Oh, that was a gem. Turning the corner. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

I really I really like that.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Yeah, we're we're probably gonna go with that one. I wanted to see other suggestions, but I was last night, I was actually texting you last night. I was texting him, and I'm thinking, you know, I'm probably gonna go with that because I like keeping my name in it because again, I I have built trust and credibility with clients corner, with clients and the the community and nonprofits and restaurants, and then turning it into bringing them all over to my radio sales clients. So I want my name to be a part of it, but I don't want it to be about me. That makes sense. Like I want it to be like a branch of what I've been through and what I've done, but now like it's taking a turn from marketing to helping the community. So we're probably gonna go with that. I just didn't want to tell him yet.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

No, it's fabulous. It's fabulous. I I saw that and I was gonna comment because I had a couple of ideas in my head, and I'm like, my ideas are not that good. I this is the one.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Yeah, no, he's he's really good. He's a good, good guy. Uh, he's in the other room, so I'm sure he can hear me. But um, yeah, we're probably gonna go with that. Uh, but he he's the one that I said might come out with me to New York if he doesn't have a um, he does Reiki and um psychic stuff too. I do Reiki. I told him I'm trying to get away. I see the evil eye behind you. I see the evil eye hanging behind you. Yeah, um, I told him to go get one of those and he did. So remember, I was telling you I had all those dreams of evil eye with my friend Phyllis. So yeah, he went out and got one. But that's my goal here. And then um, real quick, just to transition into the healing. I mean, I really I have to talk about my previous relationship real quick because I just want people to know the signs of that. That was the one when I met him, it was like this electrifying walk through my soul. Like, I want that puppy in the window, and I'm not gonna stop until I get him. And I really didn't have to work for it. You know, it was just a mutual interest. And we hung out for a few times and then it just unraveled and um he kept me crumbing. He never would put an official label. And this is more your most recent relationship? Okay. This is the one I have a PFA on. So again, I'm gonna put that into perspective. Somebody who didn't put their hands on me got a PFA before somebody who put their hands on me did. So that's the extent of mental and emotional abuse that somebody can do to you. Loved this man. I wanted to spend the rest of my life. I didn't love the first one. Like I was naive. I didn't love him like I loved this one. This one was stars in my eyes, the world slowed down when he was just, he was my everything, my best friend. Had at that time I had, you know, I was starting my life over when I met him. So he was he met me in that transition where I was at rock bottom and he helped me find me again. He was a light in a dark room, and that light was flickering for a long time. It was trying to burn and it just finally just burned out. He served his purpose. A lot of good came from knowing him. I don't regret ever meeting him or being with him. I regret staying long, free will, after already being in an abusive relationship. I should have known it wasn't right. But it was, like I said, it was a whole different dynamic. And it was, I knew it was abuse, but it I kept making excuses that it wasn't. Um, because then the narcissism and the manipulation was way different than the type of narcissism and manipulation the first one did. Because they they said there's eight different kinds of narcissism, and this one's a was a term. Trickster. This one was all the girls want to date him, all the guys want to be him. He's got the smooth. He's the, you know, he can sing, he can play the guitar, he's intelligent, has a master's degree, like had everything, right? And I'm just like, I don't, I can just, I can have somebody better than what I was with, you know. So I was enamored. I really is what it was. I'm like, I want him. So he saw me in my very dark place. And I thought, if this guy's sticking around when I'm broken and at rock bottom and he sees something in me, like he's worth pursuing. Little did I know, that's his shtick. Is that if that's what you want to call it? He finds vulnerable women who are broken and prays on them. And I don't mean pray as in he's going to hurt them physically. He just knows how to the song, like I said, Liar from Henry Rollins I sent you. He knows how to just psychologically just get you wrapped around them where you will literally submit and do anything. I don't know how they do it. I don't, I I think it's the purest of evil. I think it's the purest. I don't even know how to put it in words, Nikki.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

It's just I almost feel like they can like almost hypnotize people. No, like, you know what I mean? Like they're so good at what they do that they're they're controlling you and your mind.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

And you don't know it because they're fun, they're charming, they're goofy, you know, they got that swag. The I remember the one thing that stuck with me and it to this day, and no offense to Dane Cook if everybody likes Dane Cook, but something that this person said to me, it just stuck with me. And it really didn't hit until a few years later when he goes, Find I meet women and I move them on to where they need to be. I'm like, good luck, Chuck. And I never processed it and went, What the fuck? Like basically, I'm gonna find you when you're broken. I'm gonna build yourself esteem up. And when I don't need you or want you anymore, I'm gonna throw you away like a broken toy and good luck, hope for the best. And that's exactly what he did. Found me in a bad spot, got me like helped me. I met a lot of people, I met a lot of businesses again. I there's good that came from him. I got all the best friends I have in the world now are because I met him. My career's because I met him. I changed my life. I didn't even apply to my job. I found an apartment here. I didn't apply for all this. Like I felt like when I met him, everything in my life was like, what's the word? It starts with an S. Was it serendipitous? Everything lined up the way it was supposed to be at this the right time where I didn't have to put any. It was like I manifested it all. That okay, yeah, we talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

Yeah, I manifesties, yeah, all happened at one time in one year.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

2018 to 2019 was like the best year. I had the guy, I had the job, I had the car, I had the front, I had everything that I built myself up. And then it started after the first years when he started his bullshit of he would just disappear. He would ghost me for weeks. And then I would literally, I had to show up one time where I knew he was at, and I had to be that girl to confront him in public that he's not gonna treat me that way. I put my foot down. Well, you know, I really don't want a relationship a year later, and you're just gonna ghost me like it's that is when I should have stopped. I should have cut it off. Nope, I made an excuse. So he would deactivate his social media for a month because he would recharge, he would disappear and only talk to certain people, but I found out really he was sleeping with other people. And if he deactivated his social media, people couldn't look for him and find him online and find his real life. So he was living a literally a double life. I didn't see him for a month. He came back in, acted like nothing happened. And this would this was going on for six years. He eventually stopped the disappearing act like three years in, but he would do other stuff, like constantly cut me down on my weight, like joking, or you know, use my mental health against me and call me neurotic or oh, here we go again. Oh, you must you're going through the cycle again. Here we go, you know, three weeks, it's time. Like, because he would do stuff and then I would be reactive abuse. And then when I reacted, I was crazy. I was neurotic, I was a mental health project, I was obsessive, and you know, I I told you you didn't want a relationship from the start. You know, it's your own fault. Just it was always me. No, he'd like, don't go blaming me, Sunshine. Like I told you where I stood from the beginning. But then why are you still here five years later? Be a man and walk away. Be a man and stop. No, you're 43 years old and you're playing games like you're you're a frat boy. So he's emotionally stunted, obviously. But again, he was another one where I knew I could see right through the veil and I knew who he was and he hated it from the beginning. And that's why this one doesn't talk to him anymore because he couldn't see right through him and he didn't like that about us because everybody else could be charmed and tricked, and we saw right through his bullshit and we called him out on it, and he didn't like it. So he could never really pull one up over on us. And I said, I may not find out today, but I'm gonna find out. And I always found out. And when I threw the proof in his face, he would literally still gaslight me and say, Believe whatever you want. I have the text message from this girl, like like a conversation you guys had, and I'm supposed to believe whatever I want. It was just a whole six years of, I mean, he did more, you know, the never knowing what we were when talking, like we're dating and then we're friends, and then we're buddies, and then we're friends, and then we're dating, and then we're not. Like it was always on his terms for six years. So it got to a point where people were asking me, Are you guys together again? I don't know. I don't know. Are you guys together? Go ask him. I'm I'm sick of trying to explain it, you know. And then it got to a point where people just assumed we were, but we weren't. And like it was so embarrassing when I'd have girls message me and be like, I just found out about you, but uh, he was at my house last night. Oh, okay, cool. And then when I confronted him, I was the problem. He hit on my friends and then they were the problem when they told me they were shit starters. You know, it was always everybody else. So the psychological damage that he did and the emotional of the hot and the hot and the colds, the ups and the downs, I was addicted to the, you know, the coming and going with him because it was like an abandonment. He started my abandonment issues because I never knew when he was gonna leave, but he always came back. Or was he gonna disappear this week for three weeks? Oh, you know what? I'll just suffer through it. He'll come back. And it got to a point where it was just he called my friend fat in a bar, my best friend. Um, I've told you about, and called me all these names and he was annihilated and a few people almost beat him up. And then after that, I was just, I can't. I said, that's my best friend. Like there's a there's a I draw a line, you know what I mean? Like, I should do that with myself, but I'm so so caring about other people that the look in her face was enough for me to be like, no, never again. So I started living my life and seeing guys here and there, just you know, random dates. And every time he knew who they were, he would approach them in public. Now he's not a confrontational guy, so he was starting to show his own colors. He took the mask off. People saw how he treated me in public, screaming, verbally abusing me, my friends, and then he was just acting out of character. And like he literally was going, I mean, posting things online. He never posted anything about his personal life, and he would start, he started slamming me online, using my first and full name. I work in the media, like I don't I don't mean that. So I just stayed quiet and I went to the cops and reported it for slander. And he actually physically assaulted somebody I know because I was singing karaoke and they were sitting at my table and he walked in and just hid them. And that's just out of character. Like I've never seen him that way. So I'm like, for someone who didn't want me fully, now is a problem with me moving on, but it was okay for you to sleep around. You know, I'm like it was just why did I stay in that when I already dealt with that? And I'm helping my friend with that right now because it's like you go back to what's familiar, right? You go back to what you're nervous, you know how to navigate it. It's familiar. You don't healthy is unknown. Like you're not used to that in a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

What's crazy about your story is you went from one form of abuse, which looked very different, into another relationship. Because do you feel like because you found this person when you were at your low, that that was why it was more easy for you to fall into this rather than yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

I didn't give myself time to process and grieve and heal and fund myself. I just went right to the next one. And I I became very codependent on him because that was the second time I started my life where I had no friends, no support system. And I used him and I just like dug my claws into him of, oh, he's my lifesaver. He saved my life. Like, if it wasn't for him, I probably would not be here today. And like I gave him, I put him so far up on a pedestal that I just idolized him and I saw just the golden rays of heaven on him. Like, I don't know. Everyone used to say, like, what do you see in him? And I'm like, I I can't explain to you what it is about him that makes me like this. He just drove me in a good way at the time. He drove me crazy. Now he drives me crazy in different ways. But um, he had this aura aura around him that just made me addicted. And I wanted to make him proud. I don't know what I was doing, but it it's just weird to think that I did it twice.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

It's important to explain that because people think, well, if you go through it once, you there's no way you're gonna let that happen again.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

But that's I said that when I left and went through it for another six years, and no, he never laid his hand on me. I'm thankful for that. But who's to say he never would, you know, or just the the trauma alone of what he did mentally and verbally, just and I never realized how bad it was. And I've been out since September, I'd say. And now looking back, I'm like, holy shit. Seeing things from hindsight, it's like I I saw him in court and I just wanted to puke. I was like, what the hell was I think? I don't it's just so weird that you're just with your lens now.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

You're you're like, wow, that was me. You probably don't even feel like you, right? Like you're detached a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

Yeah, yeah. It was very odd standing next to him because I did just didn't feel like we ever had a connection. It was a very emotional day. Because it was it was just weird. Like he just felt like a stranger to me. But that was the there was just something about him, but he knows how to psychologically get in your head, and it's scary. It let somebody do that and see the how many people he's done it to, and how many in court took him?

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Was that powerful for you? Did like give you like your power back in a way?

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Uh Jim was with me, and um again, Jim has his own story with him. I'm standing in front of the judge, and I had I was in a room full of people. Now I never knew that court hearings like that were in a room full of people. That was the first time I've ever done that. And I thought it was just gonna go in with the judge, me, him, and Mel, there's every like bench was full of people. And I'm like, this is sad that this many people are in here for a PFA. That was an eye-opener. But when I got in front of the judge, he was next to me and he like he's always got confidence and he kind of like cowered that day. And I just, to me, I told my boss, it was like another sales call. I walk up, I give my story, I give my pitch. If you buy it, cool. If not, like I I'm giving you the truth. That's my job to tell you. And if you believe me, all right, sold. If not, like I'm not gonna stand here and try to persuade somebody to believe me that I was abused. I didn't even get that far because he asked for a continuance. So the second time I go up, I'm staying in front of her. He's sitting next to me, and I don't make eye contact, but I strut my shit right up there with my boots, like I'm going in to make the biggest sale of my life. And I stood there with my head held high, and I did not for once just let him have that satisfaction because I it's not that I was afraid of him for my life. I don't want to say that he made me feel I was in danger that, but the fact that I saw him out of character and him hit somebody else, and I've never seen that with him. He's the most calm person you'd ever meet in your life made me wonder what is he capable of. And I had to teach this kid a lesson because it was like, you're going to keep bothering me and you're going to keep manipulating me. And obviously, I'm going to keep allowing it. I have to draw a boundary for myself and I've I have to go to the law to do it. Because I know right now he's so manipulative and controlling Nikki. He's probably the only thing that he's pissed about is that he can't manipulate me right now. Because if he does and makes contact, he goes to jail. He has no control. And it's not that, again, I don't think he would have, you know, taken my life at all. But God knows if he's out of character, I don't know what he would have done. From the little that I've seen from October to January, was not the person I knew for six years. And that was scary. I was like, because he he was he's very cares what people think. He has a reputation, he's got uphold. So for him to act like that in public was scary to me.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

I was like, well, just with coercive control. Yes. There's been a lot of studies done. And um, women who have been taken by homicide, that was actually the first physical thing. Coercive control doesn't mean they're not going to harm you. That you the fact that you said that's important because you're like, oh, maybe he wouldn't have. He could have. He obviously had a switch and you saw it flipped.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

And that was when I when I did the when I did the PFA, like when I first went, I felt guilty. And then at the end, I was like, no, because he could have came to my house, he could have flipped the switch when he got drunk and hit me. Like he could have strangled me. I'm not saying he would have, but I didn't think the other one was gonna do it either. And he did. And I didn't want to take chances this time. It was kind of taking a um precaution for myself and setting a boundary for myself and for him that you're not going to hurt me anymore. You cross this line, you're gonna have a consequence because the kid never had consequences his whole life. But I wanted to feel safe emotionally. I couldn't physically feel safe if I'm emotionally and mentally not like the anxiety and the stress and not eating and it's affecting my work. Like just because he wasn't hitting me doesn't mean I wasn't getting abused or I felt traumatized by him because he did a lot of damage to me. So him out of my life by the saying that the cops, I mean, the judge did a grant emergency PFA. I mean, he he thought he had the proof in front of him because he slandered me, he sent me text messages, harassed my friends. I mean, I gave them a good document of proof. It wasn't like me walking in there and just telling my story. I had stuff to back it up, but I think that took his power away. But I warned him though. I said, You ever push me to this point, don't push me to that point, you're gonna regret it. And he did. I don't know if he thought it was a game, but I had to I had to do it. So I had to do it for myself. So I had that, I had to stand up because I I couldn't keep living like that. And I would have, if I didn't do what I did, I he'd probably be back in my life, just manipulating me and I'd be miserable. But again, I I didn't know what he was gonna do. I mean, he hit somebody that he's known for 20 years just because they were hanging out with me. What is he gonna do to me if he's you know, so he was out of character and I wasn't playing games, I wasn't trusting it, and I I just needed a safe space. And if it's a year, just to leave me alone so I can have some mental peace and emotional peace to get my physical good because Lord knows I've been sick for seven months, and that all ties together, you know, the mental and the emotional goes hand in hand with your physical, and I can't I can't feel physically safe if I'm trapped up here, you know what I mean? Like it's I don't can't explain it. Can't explain it.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

I knew that something happened soon, like recently, but like I didn't realize how recent it was. So I'm like talking about your healing, you're really just starting your healing journey.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

You're not there yet. No, I'm starting my friend, um my best friend Julie, and she's okay if I use her name, is me in a younger form, 29, but she acts like she's 50. You know, she's an old soul. Um, and she's a clinical director and she's dealt with a lot of loss and trauma. And she has said things to me that just clicked and it took a little bit. And everything that girl has told me, I've applied and I had dinner with her tonight, and I was like, I'm different, aren't I? And she's like, Yeah, like she's seen a she's seen the growth. I've started this, I separ started separating myself from him in July, and then October was like shut the door. But it was probably the past year since last December 2023 was I really started pulling away and I knew I wanted to end it. I just wasn't there yet. But yeah, I am healing. I feel a lot better than I did actually and emotionally, mentally and physically. You know, I'm always sick, but that's my immune system. Uh, it's a journey because you're stuck in your head a lot, but I have a support system now, so I'm not alone. I have stories like Abby's and stories from other people, and just to see how other people have risen up inspires me. You know, I'm not gonna lay in bed all day and cry over what happened. I can't change it. But if I can turn around, like I know sometimes when I'm sick, I'll do something, like I'll start a GoFundMe for another kid whose disabilities or sick. Just I try to put the good vibe back out there to help somebody else. So I don't it just makes me feel better to help other people. So that's how I hear love language is like giving, giving and doing acts of service, all that stuff. Quality time. Yeah, I love I love helping people, it makes me feel better. I could feel like the worst, just sick. And if I'm helping somebody, it makes me feel ten times better. I just want to help everybody, and I can't help everybody, but I want to, so it's hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

Why is it important to you to share this story now?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

I think because I'm older and wiser um and experienced, and now that there's so much more education on it, I feel like my story is important because it is, it happened. And I think other people hearing somebody who's been through it and still came out the other side and is still living and breathing and still having fun and it's not defining me. I think it's a just to be a voice for somebody else. I just want to like I said, there's um eight million people, eight billion people in the world. If one person hears me, that's enough because that saves one life. And then they're gonna maybe feel inspired to do the same thing. But because I'm now now I'm completely out of abuse that I dealt with for 17 years, I think that's why I want to tell it now because I'm healing, I'm with therapy, I'm starting to see things in a different light, a different perspective. And while I'm doing things with my therapist or my friends and getting myself good, it helps me self-reflect, um, helps me find my own toxic patterns. Everybody has their own. And I don't want to carry all of this pain and hate and bitterness and anger into another relationship. I want to get it out. And my therapist is big on me just talking and rambling and texting, just get it out. And I think the more you talk about it, the more you learn as well. Like I hear myself sometimes, and I'm like, wow, you you have grown a lot. You've learned a lot. Like, don't, you're not gonna make the same mistake again. You might make a different mistake, but it's just important. Like you're gonna learn, hopefully, you'll learn from your mistakes. And I'm not saying I'm the blame for the abuse, but some of my actions, free will, you know, I'm a I was a really bad toxic texter for with certain somebody that I would just black out and just text novels and novels and novels, and I don't do that anymore. Somebody triggers me instead of arguing, I just put my phone aside and I don't give them that energy. So telling my story is helping me learn how to better control my narrative, but also help people without coming off like an asshole and be bitter and I don't know. Like I just feel like somebody needs to hear it. And I wish I had that. It's all just wish I did.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

Do you have any messages for someone who might be going through something right now? Maybe, maybe a young 19, 20-year-old girl who is in a relationship that feels a little bit too much. Any advice for anyone or s or a family like a mother or father that wants to help somebody that's going through something? Any advice for anybody out there?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

If you see something, say something. You never know who is hoping that you ask because they're just holding it inside and they just want a safe space. So even if you're wrong, you might offend somebody or insult somebody, but it's better than keeping somebody in a situation that could take their life. Don't pass any judgment. If you haven't lived it, I don't think you have the right to ever judge or make an opinion on what someone's going through. Even the little remark I know drives everybody crazy that's been abusive. Why didn't they just leave? Why did you stay so long? And I put up a meme I saw the other day you shared that said, you know, instead of asking her why did she leave, ask how did he hit her? Why did he hit her? You know, like stop blaming the victim and starting to be able to do it. Don't be part of the problem. Call the cops if you say, see or say something. You might not be right, but it's better than doing nothing, being something bad later. Um, and then offer the resources that you know you have. Even if it's saying, you know, I know in Pennsylvania, I don't know if they do this in Florida. That there's a thing going around from the um Pennsylvania department saying if you don't if you can't call in a dangerous situation, you can text 911. So that's a PA thing. I don't know if that's national or but I've been seeing that going around. So like you can now text law enforcement if you're in emergency.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

I have heard something about texting. I had to look into that more, but um, I don't know if it's state by state or but yeah, no, that'd be that's a great a resource.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

And I would I didn't know that back then because my phone would get smashed if I tried. So, you know, um think the message be more compassionate, extend, just extend your hand and your heart. Don't downplay someone else's story because yours wasn't as bad or it doesn't sound that bad, or somebody has it worse, you know. Don't don't ever downplay somebody else's trauma. That's not that's not your place. Be a voice for those who can't be, be a voice for those who want to be. I was always that kid in school who, if a kid was afraid to ask a question, I would do it for them. Like I'm always a voice, I've always been a voice. And you have to save yourself, you know, not that it's easy, not that you always have the opportunity because you don't. You don't always have the means, but if you can, you got to find every ounce of strength and love and power you have. And even if it's scary to make that first step, going forward, not knowing is better than staying where you're at, being scared, miserable, you know, having your life at stake. I I think that's the biggest. Yeah, I know and it's scary, but it can't be as scary as what you're dealing with. That that's how I got through it. And then again, but we've we said earlier, abuse happens everywhere to everyone. You don't get a get out of jail free card for your skin color or income level or the kind of career you have. It doesn't work like that. More voices are better than one. So the more people talk, the more ears hear, and the more people see, the more eyes see it. Um, and it's just a chain reaction. I just want to say one last thing. Offer resources, offer knowledge you have, offer a hand and be a friend. And in Gabby's words, just be a nicer person. That's it. Just be a nicer person. You don't have to say anything, just be a nicer person. The golden rule my mom taught me is just do to others what you want to you and just be nice. That's it. I think there was something I wanted to say about how I left the first one safely. I was already making a plan without him knowing. I was stashing all the money I had aside. I actually opened a different bank account and had my boss who was paying me under the table, when his wife would deposit the. Checks from the other employees, direct deposit. They were putting it right in my account, and it was an account that I nobody knew about. So that helped. Um, and I just acted like it didn't exist and I just let it um pile up. I was secretly looking for roommates on Craigslist back when Craigslist was a thing, even in 2018. Um, and I had met a woman who was looking to make in a little bit of extra income. Her kids moved out and she was alone and I think she was in her 40s, 50s, and she just wanted a companion. And it was about 45 minutes to where I lived. And it's actually right by the college I went to, that Tara's cousin's mom is a professor at in a small world, but um, or a teacher. And I hadn't stayed in contact. I went and looked at it once during work and um kept her contact. And I said, I'm not ready yet. If this, you know, I'll be in touch. Hopefully, this room will still be available. And the day that I wouldn't co-sign for him to get that van and he threw my shit all over the lawn. I picked up what I could that I could fit in my car. I left my cats, which I eventually got back. But I just packed what I could as fast as I could and left and I never went back. I showed up at her house and I lived with her for six or seven months. So I mean, I have to give her a lot of credit. She took in a stray that she didn't know, but she was a safe haven too. And he didn't know where she was. It was far enough away out in the middle of nowhere. He had no idea where I was. There was a chance he could still bump into me if I went down to Scranton, but um there was a good way for me to hide out and I was working for myself, so I really didn't have to be out in public. So I had that plan before I even left. I mean, and I was kind of crashing on my friend's couches here and there too, slowly moving stuff out of the house without him realizing it. And I was keeping a lot of it at her house. And then when I was ready to move to this other woman's house, that's I took it all with me. So he because he wasn't home because he was out with whoever he was for days on end. He wasn't realizing the things that I was doing. And I knew his routine. So I would slowly, even if it was two things, I would throw in my car, take it, two, three more things, an outfit here or there. You can't do it all at once because obviously it's noticeable. But have a plan, save money if you can. If not, the resources, just use Facebook as a network. I mean, it really can save Facebook can save a life. I mean, the domestic violence, the victim centers, the women's centers, no, the food pantries, there are, you know, the police, the social workers, dress for success. There's so many organizations that even YMCAs can help. Like there's so many people. And a lot of them are confidential, you know, therapists you talk to. And I know it's scary, but like find one person, one person that can just let you talk. Everything else, you just have to be as smart as you can be with what means you have. It's hard because everybody's in a different situation. So, like the way I got out might not be the same for somebody else. So I don't want to say like do it my way because it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

But it's important to mention the safety plan and and because it is the most dangerous time to leave. So having a plan in place and somebody or someone, hopefully multiple people, or an advocate or somebody that you're working with that can that knows your situation and knows about your plan. You were very, it sounds like you had a lot of support, which is wonderful. You had your your bosses and you had this woman who you could move in. Like, but you did you did all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:21

You asked for help. I did. But I didn't at the time realize that they were. Looking back, yes. And I don't think they realized that they were. Because they didn't really know the extent of what I was going through either. I just said, can you put this in account? But I I don't think they were blind to it, but I don't know that they were in tune with it. Um, but I did have support at the time though, I just didn't call them that. Um, but now they're like saving grace, you know what I mean? Like they were my angels in the time I needed them because I had people. And I is it's gotta be scary for people who have nobody, no job, no coworkers, no friends, no family. I mean, I know there's people like that that have nobody. I can't imagine the fear and the anxiety and the loneliness that they feel. I mean, they have they really have to do it alone. And that's a whole nother level I haven't experienced, and I hope nobody does, but there's still, if you have access to 911, shelter, food pantries, a Facebook group, just something to open the door, you know, keep fake numbers in your phone, fake names. I mean, you gotta you gotta start being kind of be smart about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

And smart. Now, I mean, back then it probably wasn't as prominent, but now people are tracking people very easily. So there's always that fear if your phone is being tracked, your vehicle's being tracked, because it they all have satellite in them now. So, like, there's another whole another whole additional worry for survivors. It's the planning is essential. And someone is essential.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

My first ex put a tracker on this past ex's car. I forgot to mention that. He never knew until three or four years in when my other ex called me and said, Oh, by the way, I put a tracker on his car a few years ago. If you if you shimmy under, it feels like a hockey puck. And I went out one morning, I found it on his car. I never told him. That's what I was dealing with. And there was probably one on my car, and he never told me because I had traded my car in and got another one. Guarantee you there was one on my car. That's scary. Like, yeah, that's that's a whole other level of yeah. Um, but yeah, having the plan was I did it the way I knew how. What I the knowledge and the means that I had is what I used. Sometimes I don't take this the wrong way, I hate saying this, but sometimes you learn things from narcissists and abusers and manipulators, and you can use it in your back pocket to your advantage to be one step ahead of them. You have to sometimes play their own game and make them think that they they have the power and make them think that you're just submitting to everything and in the background, just play just No, that makes lots of sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:49

That's a great, um, that's a great tool to use because you're basically just pretending, but you're using their own tactics against them.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

Yeah, but I mean, obviously don't let them know that you're doing it. But and I don't mean to do it, don't do it to just anybody, but sometimes beating them at their own game, which I did with this last one, I knew because he was a psychological abuser, I had to get in his head to flip the game and take my power back. It wasn't about slandering him or I knew where I just knew how to do it because I was like, okay, you gotta think like them. If they're manipulative enough and charming enough and smooth enough to get things by, you've got to. And it's not that you want to learn, you just pick it up. And I don't like saying that, but I've probably used it once or twice in this past to get away from this last one because I was like, all right, I watched you. Now I'm now like I think there's a meme that goes around. I love it says, You made me study narcissism, now enjoy my educated ass. That's what it is. That you taught me, you taught me what this is, and now I'm like now I know about it. Giving someone a taste of their own medicine. And I don't want to, but yeah, it's just but you have to for your own safe.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:54

It's literally for your own safety. It's not you're not trying to hurt somebody.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:57

Um educate yourself, be less judgmental, and just be a nicer person. I I think I just want to thank people who do watch you guys and support you. And I want to thank you guys. You know, I I tell you this all the time that the work that you guys are doing is just changing the world. I I I have no words for the things that you you have done. And it's just admirable. And I I want to make an impact like you guys. And I think the more that people that you inspire, the more people are going to. And I think it's just gonna be a chain reaction that and it needs to happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:29

Thank you.