We're Still Here, Babe
We’re Still Here, Babe, hosted by actress Natanya Ross, is a celebrity interview podcast that goes beyond the highlight reel. Featuring familiar faces from the ‘90s and beyond, each episode explores life after fame through honest conversations about mental health, recovery, resilience, addiction, trauma, personal growth, and the moments that happen when the cameras stop rolling. From iconic actors to unforgettable television and film stars, We’re Still Here, Babe offers a behind-the-curtain look at the human stories that remind us we’re all a lot more alike than we think. Because quitting was never an option.
We're Still Here, Babe
Ep. 1- Virginia Madsen
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Academy Award-nominated actress Virginia Madsen joins Natanya Ross for an honest conversation about Hollywood, life after fame, resilience, mental health, family, and the experiences that shape us both on and off screen.
Your place is so cool, man. Thank you. So excellent. Just your you know, your artistic touches and your creativity. It's just everywhere. So you just kind of sink. You just sort of, you know, sink. Hi, baby. Hi. You just sort of sink down and just like want to meditate or something.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love that. That's that's kind of what we were going for a little bit. Just a little bit of a pink paradise for my friends to come in. So, okay, so today's guest is somebody I'm genuinely so honored to have here. Not because she's an absolute icon, but because she's also been part of my real life for years now. I've known you for about a dec.
SPEAKER_03No, maybe 15, 20 years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It has really been that long. I think it has.
SPEAKER_01I don't think we're old enough. Yeah. Um, and through my best friend, who's also your namesake, Virginia. And over that time, you have become somebody I deeply love and admire as both an artist and a human being to the world. She, friends, is the legendary Academy Award-nominated actress from Sideways, as well as breathtaking performances in my favorite Candyman, Dune, my other favorite, The Haunting in Connecticut. And so many more. I mean, God, we'd be here all day. I think IMDB said 123 films you've been in.
SPEAKER_03Is that all?
SPEAKER_01That's it. Well, you know, some pick up the pace, babe.
SPEAKER_03You know, there's uh sometimes I mean, most of what I do are small independent films because for me that's that's where the writing is.
SPEAKER_01Well, in that last one you see.
SPEAKER_03So there's a lot more time in the year. Yeah, so I have, and I um I've tried to, you know, slow that down a little bit because now I I just feel like I I'm like don't have that kind of crazy energy that I can just throw anywhere. Yeah, you know, I I've learned to be not that I couldn't, but I don't want to, you know, I want to save the energy for more, you know, things that that I don't know have more to do with my personal life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh yeah. And I I for me, I think that's getting older also. Yes, my personal life becomes more and more sacred to me as every year goes, you know, and everything else matters less and less. And I think that just comes with age. I think it goes without saying. I'm just, you know, for our audience who's listening. Um so I really can't think of a more perfect person to be here. This is our very first in-person episode. It is. It is, and for our very first guest in studio for We're Still Here, Babe, Virginia fucking Madsen.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to We're Still Here, Babe.
SPEAKER_03Wow, thank you so much for having me. Oh my god. I'm surprised it seems like the whole thing would be on camera. And I think it's just so cool that you have it like in your home and in such an um informal and you know, it's a sensuous environment.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03In in so many ways. And also you had really, really good cheese and meat platters. Um always appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01That's all that they that's that has nothing to do with meat. But yeah, this, you know, um, and I'm sure you can relate to this too. I mean, your home is like next level.
SPEAKER_03I've I think as women, we kind of we just keep shouldering the burden.
SPEAKER_01100%.
SPEAKER_03And you have to lighten the load, you know, to to allow yourself to move through the next stage of life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I agree. I I actually was talking about this the other day about why, as women, do we protect bad men, you know? And like I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I haven't I haven't done that. I I just no, I I don't have enough time for that. Umbody got time for that. Yeah, you know, I but you know what? I think that there's a lot of personal reasons why we do the things we do when we fall in love with someone that we're not compatible with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And we and and we believe in that love, even if it is, you know, given to the wrong person. Um and so, yeah, people can have lots of advice of who you should be with and what kind of person you should be with, especially when they love you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, but someone uh, you know, you have to come to that decision on your own. And 100%. And but part of believing uh in him is this was now when I was much, much younger, and my my girlfriend and I realized that what we were doing is we and I'm I mean really young, like in our in our 20s, but is we were falling in love with their potential. Like I know what he could really be, and I'm gonna help him do that, and you know, there's they have to do that for themselves, and yes, we can be supportive, but in a way, you're not letting them do it. You're you're what you imagine some guy should be. Like, what if he doesn't want to be that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a good point.
SPEAKER_03And and I think when we enable and we um try and like do everything, and you can label that whatever you want to label it, but you're actually not giving them a chance to grow.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03By by trying to do everything, you're not giving them enough credit for what that potential is.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03So, you know, it's it's kind of like, are you in love with someone who's really not the person? No, totally.
SPEAKER_01And you know, I actually feel really grateful that I went through that divorce in my 40s because I think had I been in my 30s, I wouldn't have been so confident to advocate for myself immediately, you know? Yeah. I had spent so many years doing all of this deep self-work, you know, just this like gut-wrenching. I got I had to get through all the layers of shit that was going on with me to figure out why I have a semi-open recovery story, and I had to figure out why I was putting all this, you know, stuff in my body to not have to think here at all. And um, you know, I had to do a lot of work in that same regard around men because I had to figure out why I had had this um pattern in my lifetime. I did too.
SPEAKER_03I went through a long period of that, and I chose to be single, and I chose to be celibate for a really long period of time. Actually, it went on way longer than I wanted it to be. Um but but I I was sort of like, well, what's my part in this? Like what am I doing with these, you know, these partners that do not suit me, that we don't match. And you know, but but you know, you like me, you know, we're generous and were loving and supportive, and and sometimes that in my case was misplaced. And and I, you know, and young and lack, lack of experience, and all I knew was that, oh, I just love that man. And and um, and and so I had to really, really spend a lot of really what turned out to be years sort of unearthing what was going on within myself. And like, am I really valuing myself? And what it what is it that I'm trying to build this house with the little fence and the little suburbia and and and the way that women are supposed to be as wife, in quotes. And you know, it was a really outdated, it was some 1950s television version. Yeah, and my mother wasn't like that, a woman that I so greatly admire. And and the women in my life, my big sister was not like that, you know, the really subservient and you know, dinner on the table when you get home. I don't know where I got that, but that's what I fiercely defended and thought that I could change some guy into that guy who comes home and sets his briefcase down and oh my goodness, poor guy. Like I really, what was I thinking? Oh, and we'd have we'd have babies as well, and I'd have my career as well, right? Of course. And I had this really neat, tidy version, and it was very hard for me to look at that because I did want that, I wanted partnership, I wanted to raise children, and it that is the part of my life that was not in order, you know, that part of my personal life. So taking time to really look at the hard things, and and that's something that I learned to continue doing over the years, right? And so that when, you know, when you recognize your shortcomings or your um character defects um becoming the default, right? You know, where you just it's like a reflex where you behave badly. Um and why do those come up and what is that really, really about? Yeah. Um and so that helped me to be a lot more clear. Um, and so the the relationship that I have now is free of a lot of past baggage, behavior, things that, you know, and and he is the same. So we didn't have to walk in the door and and set all that baggage down. Because believe me, I had like a luggage cart behind me. I had the whole Louis Vuitton, like I was lugging it all in, you know, and like setting up shop. But I, you know, cleared that away.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Not that I don't run into those issues again and again because it's part of who I am, yeah. But I now know where it's coming from, and I recognize when it begins, when I start to stumble. It's amazing, you know. Um so basically, I'm perfect now.
SPEAKER_01Give me the clip, give me the clip notes for you.
SPEAKER_03You know, someone's gonna have to play this for me in about, you know, 15 years and I'll laugh at myself at the top.
SPEAKER_01I'll play it for you in 15 years. Um, I ask everybody this just because this is such a personal podcast, obviously, and I've I'm so lucky that I get to bring on people that are so personal to me. I know that's definitely not the norm. So I like to ask everybody when was the first time you remember us meeting?
SPEAKER_03Oh.
SPEAKER_01And it might not even be when we actually met, but just kind of when like well, I heard about you from my niece, yes, Virginia. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03My namesake, so now I'm V.
SPEAKER_01But that's fine.
SPEAKER_03Um, so she can she gets to take the name now. And um, and so I heard about you a lot. I mean, a lot. And you were really in the forefront of her life. And it was, you know, things like my soulmate and my best friend, and and and I, and so I was like, Well, how come I don't get them here? Well, why can't I share in that? And um, and so I just just so many really like you were so supportive. You were a really important, like a like a pillar in her life. And it felt good knowing that you were there. Yeah. So you lived up to that when I when I finally met you. I f I sort of felt like I knew you in a way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so it was really easy.
SPEAKER_01And uh so many important like moments of my life. I feel like coincidentally, I just end up somehow at your house, like once a year or something. I just end up there doing a photo shoot or like something after some major event, and there's just something about driving out, you know, and that skinny ass little thing you gotta park your car in. But it's just the comfort I feel when I just see your house, you know. I'm so glad. I've spent I yeah, it's um talk about a bit of a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03I like to have people over. You do, you know. I like to, I've always liked to entertain people.
SPEAKER_00You have good parties.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because I think, you know, people relax.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_03When they're there, and Nick is always cooking, and yes, and and I've sort of I was always the one doing the cooking, so I've sort of lost my touch, and he's really taken he's so good.
SPEAKER_00So good, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I think when there's cooking and there's food and there's music and candles, and your places like that, you know. It people relax and I want them to feel like they can sit anywhere, and you know, they could sleep over if they wanted.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're so much.
SPEAKER_03And I'm careful, I'm I mean, I'm I'm careful of who we invite over. I am protective of that space because it's it's my sanctuary. It's you know, it's it, it's you know, Nick and I call it our tree house. And so there's it's a tree house.
SPEAKER_01We call ours our tree house. You do?
SPEAKER_03Well, you see, there's there's only there's not that much room to, you know, you gotta know the password to get in. And it's private, yeah, but our doors are open and so that people can feel like they're family when they come over.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're like that too. That's something that's really important to us. And you know, we have a back guest room built out for family that comes to stay with. Yeah, all of that's so important. It's creating a home where people feel like they can be themselves.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's beautiful, and dogs are allowed, and yeah, just everything. You know, and there's all these different places where people can hang out if we have a bigger group. Um, there's all different conversation areas inside. Yeah, little nooks inside and outside. And so even more of a reason to to keep it private. And you know, because it there's no arguing allowed there, there's there's no strife, there should be no yelling unless it's for joy, you know, and and you know, some yeah, there should be um a real sense of serenity in the house, and and I think it it it is there. Um, and so we, you know, people can bring their friends, but it's just like don't bring anyone who's gonna disrupt the vibe, man. Totally, you know?
SPEAKER_01No disrupting the vibe, man. Um, all right. You have had this beautiful career, like breathtaking, really. But I'm curious who you were before everybody else had their version of who you are in their head. Like who was Virginia Madsen before you were Virginia Madsen, you know?
SPEAKER_03Well, it depends on what movie they've seen, you know, because I I've played so many different kinds of characters. I think all of them have a kind of a fearsome nature, even if they're they're broken. Right. Um, I think that I have a personal strength that comes through my performances, and I've often chosen things that are um strange and weird movies because I, you know, thought it was a unique experience. And um, I never sort of ever put my eggs in one basket in my career. You know, I I I did take a lot of chances on, oh, this guy's gonna make this really bizarre movie, and yeah, why not, you know, and then you see it and you're like, oh god, well, you know, and because the only thing you can really depend on is making the movie, your your experience on the set. Because once my job is done, I I don't know what they're gonna do to the movie, I don't know what they're gonna do to my performance, I don't know what they're gonna end up with. And so I learned really, really early on that when a film did not, even it really hard when a film was really, really good, and it opens small and it disappears.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03You know, that was really disappointing for for me. And so I learned really early on that you can't depend on the outcome. Um and that even very, very young, my personal life was most important. Maybe I didn't hustle as much as I could have. I didn't, I wasn't competitive in that way to, you know, sort of climb to the top because I didn't think there was a top in this, you know, you're never, I don't care how high up you are, you're never, you're never there, you know, because then the next movie determines and says, you know, it's just all so mixed up, and my focus needed to be on my family, my personal space, my life, and then work.
SPEAKER_01Totally.
SPEAKER_03I don't know how I knew that, but I think I just maybe it's my Midwestern background or being really fortunate enough to be very close to my family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I always, when I am speaking to younger actors, and I, you know, I always tell them to to it helps you to stay grounded, stay very close to your family. It may not be the family you're born to, but your given family, your chosen family. Yeah. Keep those as the pillars on either side of your castle.
SPEAKER_01Totally.
SPEAKER_03And um not to your detriment, but keep that as a source of strength.
SPEAKER_01Someone told me once that our friends are the universe's apologies for our families.
unknownOh my god.
SPEAKER_01Not you, Sherry.
SPEAKER_00That's really good. That's good, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I'm a, you know, I listen, I'm a kid who comes from a single mom who, you know, sadly was robbing me blind, and I would have had no way to know at six months old, at 10 years old, at 15 years old, even at 20, you know. And um, so I have really tried to look for family almost in every social circle I've been in since I'm a child. If I really have to look back, and you know, and your niece is one of the one of the first friends of mine, really, where I was like, wow, we really can pick our own family in this lifetime. You know, and and sh and also somebody who showed me that people really will stay. They really will, regardless if they share blood with you or not.
SPEAKER_03That's really important at the same time.
SPEAKER_01Well, she must have learned that from you, guy. I mean, yeah, we wouldn't let her go.
SPEAKER_03That's true.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, but you know, she you. I mean, I was kind of raised by wolves. So sometimes I wonder, like, where did I kind of get all of the um the uh gump sh- I don't know, you know, but she she had such incredible women around her. Um, and she was able to pass that on to someone like me who didn't come from that kind of structure, and I've always been looking to like find that and fill that in the world.
SPEAKER_03It is really important to be in the company of women. And that is something that was it was always a surprise to me that there was women that I would meet that didn't like other women, women that where there was a uh a cattiness that was not playful, yeah, there was a competitive negativity in their nature, and I thought, oh, what a waste of time and what a loss for them because they're alone, they're isolated. And in in my upbringing and in my adult life, the company of women is it's a really strong bond. It's a really important place to exchange ideas and love. And and and boy, they'll tell you when you're going the wrong way.
SPEAKER_01A hundred percent.
SPEAKER_03And and I have really good men friends too, and and uh others in between. Um because I think in in your chosen family, there sometimes there are people you're gonna have to let go of. You know, there are as you as you age through life, um, there are gonna be people that life takes them in a in a bad U-turn.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And there's nothing you can do about that. And you can be as supportive as you can, but then it's that old adage of, you know, the grain the sand in in the tight fist. It's not you you have to let them go and make their own mistakes.
SPEAKER_01And sometimes when people That's really hard. It's so hard that's hard. Sometimes when people People show you who they are, you really have to believe them. And it's tough. You know? Oh yeah. It's tough. So you've had these kind of waves in your career, right? What did you think?
SPEAKER_03Oh, I certainly have.
SPEAKER_01I certainly have. What did you learn in the in-between moments? You know, even in like um, you know, when things were quieter. And I I even thinking back to just those those months where there's no work, you know, we don't know where when the next work is coming, things are quite.
SPEAKER_03The waiting. The waiting is there was a really significant time in my life where I was uh, you know, my son was just about to start elementary school, and I had really gone through this transformational period. Um physically, I was really torn up and really just kind of a basket case, and I didn't understand about postpartum. I didn't, I was very isolated, and I didn't know any other women who had kids. And um, and as I began to get my own self together, I realized that, you know, I have, I guess I call it God, but I believe that there is something that is much greater and much more powerful. I was raised with this idea of a higher power God. Okay. So for, you know, that's just my term, but I started really getting in contact with that strength of the universe. And it's like, wow, how presumptuous of you. You speak to the universe. Well, yes, I do. Yeah. And as my life sort of came together, my physical being started to really get strong, and I I became athletic. I mean, and I I was a dancer when I was just starting out, and you know, as part of being an actor, you learn movement and dance, and I was pretty good. And I started to come back to physical strength, and there was no work, and so it was you know, it was over two years of no work, and I realized that my career had become like a runaway train in the wrong direction, and so was I. And the only way that I could stop it, to change it, was to just run it off the rails and make my own path. And so I started, I I became the art teacher at my son's elementary school.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, for third grade, for second and third grade. I was the art teacher, I was the art mom. And he was at a public school, so there was no funding for that. And my and one of the other moms, we just kind of scraped together, we're creative women, and it became the most creatively fulfilling thing that I have ever done was to teach these kids about art. How old? Third grade. Wow, yeah, third, second and third grade, you know, so seven, eight. And it was just so full of joy. Yeah. So that when I did go back to work, and I was so afraid, I mean, my house uh went into foreclosure at one point, yeah, it was it was bad. And um I did not have good judgment when it came to money, but it ran out, nevertheless. And so after I was grounded and had this incredible experience with, you know, teaching, um I I got sideways. And boy, was that worth the wait, you know? Because, you know, the other thing about actors is like you must prepare to be called upon. Because if you believe in yourself and you put the work in on yourself, you will be called upon. And you can't just suddenly get your shit together in a week, you know, you gotta be together and and it will draw in that positive energy, it builds momentum. So when I, you know, go to audition, because I was also going to acting school, I mean, I was also co you know, coaching and going to classes and doing scene study, and I started all over and rebuilt. And so, you know, by the time I met Alexander Payne, I was ready and I was chill. I don't know how I get, but all those things, you know, so that I was ready to go through that and also ready to then receive success.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's amazing.
SPEAKER_03And then I kind of fell apart again, like years later.
SPEAKER_01Like, like any any good does.
SPEAKER_03Like you said, it comes in waves. Yeah. And each time the wave, each time you get sucked under again, you know, you can't struggle your way out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You have to, you have to relax and float, and then find your way back to shore.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I love that. Um, I anyone that knows me knows I'm like very into astrology, I'm very into the planets, I know everything that's going on with them at any given time. And I really truly believe that whatever we believe in is what believes back in us. And I'm oh that's good. Yeah you know, I mean I I do call it God, but also I refer to it as universe so much because it freaks people out, and that's fine, you know. But it's anything bigger than us that helps us for just a second understand we're not like the biggest thing in the world, and it squashes ego just long enough to like come back down to earth, you know? Yeah, and um, so while we're on the subject of sideways, first of all, I'm curious when you went into that role, that film really, did you guys know? No, no.
SPEAKER_03Well, I didn't. I mean, I knew I knew that this was gonna be a good film.
SPEAKER_01You knew it was special.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I knew that it was special, I knew that it was really good. I didn't go into it knowing that it was a comedy, because I I seriously, I read it, you know, very so I had a very serious point of view, and I was looking at it more like about Schmidt, which was his and his other films where there was comedy in those films, but like it was really intense. And and I thought, wow, this is this this script is about alcoholism, and you know, these guys are just making it terrible, they're just leaving wreckage in their wake, and and you know, it was this, and then and then I I you know filmed a little, and then I went back home, and then I came back up to the location, and I saw Paul and Thomas doing the scene where he's chasing Miles down the hill after he's dumped the spit bucket all over himself. Yeah, and and I and they it just their body language and the how funny they were, uh and I saw the dynamic between the two of them and realized, oh, that's the movie I'm in. Wow. Oh, okay, all right. You know, I didn't have to do the the comedy, which I didn't know much about, um, but I got that there was it was more three-dimensional, it was more, it was so much more than I realized, because by that time the relationship had really bloomed. Uh you know, all of the crew was, you know, really knew each other, and there was this really relaxed, easy atmosphere on the set. So there was no pressure on me.
SPEAKER_01So it's so interesting you were used the word easy because obviously I just watched sideways um again recently. Um and holy fuck, are you just staggering? And I mean, it's first of all, when you come on screen, sometimes I like question if I'm straight or not.
SPEAKER_03Well, thank you.
SPEAKER_01No, seriously, you're just so stuck. There's just man, you were you were born to be a movie star for sure. You know, you have such an impact, it like grabs a hold, you know. And you know, sorry to to all the sideways fans, it's an incredible, just beautiful movie. It's not even my favorite movie of yours, but it's such a significant one that people probably want to see.
SPEAKER_03It's just a it's just a film, uh, like everything about it. It's a perfect film in in all the departments. And and it it really has that's why it had such a wide audience. I think they were all surprised when we got a very young audience that started, you know, catching on to the film. But the atmosphere on that set was really, really conducive to um everyone's creativity. In front of the camera, behind the camera. There was this really relaxed, easygoing. I mean, we would rap early some days. They had a really long sh uh shooting schedules, certainly more money than any film I'd worked on, um, especially the tiny ones that I'd been making. And and and but this is, you know, Alexander is really a leader. He really has um, you know, he seems like he's quiet and relaxed, and but everything is planned. Everything is like all I had to worry about was my job.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_03All I had to do was just show up. And when the writing is that beautiful, you you really don't have to, you know, add anything. You just have to get out of the way of the script. And don't don't try and add to it, just just say it. Say the lines, it's like poetry, it'll sing on its own.
SPEAKER_01I feel like I'm getting a masterclass.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was yeah, but when but when the writing is not good, right.
SPEAKER_01But it's God, it's so hard.
SPEAKER_03Gotta find some way to get through that.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, it's not a good thing. And there's no yelling.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I just don't understand when there's yelling on the set and and people are upset when they have to be in character, and it's like, oh, please, just this is right. We are not like doing brain surgery here, okay? Just we're we're making a movie, you guys. This should not be this serious.
SPEAKER_01It's so funny. I say that to a lot of my actor friends too, like when we do appearances, I'm like, you guys, none of this is that serious. Everyone has to relax. We've got to come back down the ground here.
SPEAKER_03Do not have to bleed in order to emote on camera. Yeah. You know, save that, you know, people, you know, oh god, I used to do that too, like off-camera, like concentrating, and oh, and really getting into character. And it was like, and and there was like a really amazing person that said, you know, save it for the camera. Because all that energy you're putting out, like walking around in character and being in character, you know, you're ex you're expending all of that energy that you need to put down the barrel. You know what I mean? You need to put that into the camera for the audience. And holding it in and then letting it go when they call action is something you have to learn how to do. But that's, I think, a better life for everyone.
SPEAKER_01Um, Maya has one of the rare qualities in the film where she feels emotionally mature without becoming cynical. Um, and to your what you were saying, just about how easy it felt on the set, that was how it felt like the very first frame of you in Sideways. It just felt so easy. There was something about your performance that felt so effortless and easy to me. As an actor, also, when I watch performances, it's one of the first things I can I think kind of just like instinctually pick up on is if something feels easy for me or not as a performance.
SPEAKER_03And um, but we don't often find characters that are close to us.
SPEAKER_01No, definitely not. It's a it's that she's a rare, rare character. So my question is was there a moment during filming where you realized Maya could have easily become like a fantasy woman archetype as opposed to what you did to consciously keep her human and grounded instead?
SPEAKER_03Well, I think that was really the director's job. I mean, okay, I think it was, you know, I will bring whatever I bring of Virginia slash Maya to that role. And it was just exactly what he I had exactly what he wanted. And so, yes, maybe they could have uh would physically done something to where I would look like.
SPEAKER_01No, I think my question was because you looked so beautiful, like what were, you know, were you conscious of that at all, I guess, during shooting and stuff, that you didn't want your role to be defined in that way, that that there was more of a humanness.
SPEAKER_03Well, I didn't have to wear makeup, which meant to sleep. Excuse me? I yeah, I I got to sleep I got to sleep longer in the morning. He he hates makeup. He does not want he wants people to look happy.
SPEAKER_01Like themselves, sure.
SPEAKER_03And yes, I was very healthy at that time, so I looked really good. But um, but I did tell him that when they go on the date, I said, you've got to let me have a little powder, you gotta let me have mascara. Because if a lady goes on a date, she's going to do something. That's right. You know, even Maya.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_03And and he, you know, and he had to like think about it for a minute. And it was like, well, okay. So I got to where you got your mascara?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay, good.
SPEAKER_03But um, but it really is because he just wanted people to be who they were. He he didn't want anything to stand between the the person and the camera. And um, and so it was very hard for the makeup woman because the makeup artist was like, can I just he just he just has you know the just one thing and he was like, no. No, wow. Um so she was there with lots of products for us afterwards, you know what I mean? So that we slept well and oh my god. And you know, so then it and then because of that, it was my job to sleep well. It was my job to really take care of take care of yourself, um, so that um I was healthy.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03Um and which you have to do anyway, because you you and and that becomes even more important as I get older, because you know, when I was much younger, if I didn't sleep all night and I felt, you know, you you can rally. Sure. And and but now like in my 60s, I I don't rally, man. Right. You know, like maybe more rallying. Yeah, I mean, if there's an emergency, okay, well, you know, I can, but but you know, if I gotta get up at because listen, if you have to get up at four o'clock in the morning for call, yeah, your call time. Your call time, there are things that one must do.
SPEAKER_00It's like a big bowl of ice.
SPEAKER_03Yes, like I don't roll out of bed and just go to to set because another part of my responsibility, I think, as an actor, is that when I go to set, I'm awake.
SPEAKER_02I'm ready.
SPEAKER_03You know, I'm uh I I can cheer up, you know, I can cheer on the crowd, and I can um if I walked in and like did my rehearsal, like, you know, like this, give me some coffee.
SPEAKER_00You know, I mean I've never heard that before.
SPEAKER_03But if I, you know, if I get there and I've got my lines, I'm like ready to go, yeah, the people around me will get up too. And you lead by example because I expect them, I expect all those people to be carrying that equipment.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03I don't want anyone dragging ass in the morning because I had to get up.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_03So like it's a team. Come on, let's get get it together. And so I take that really seriously, and and it and it helps. And so we have to do a lot besides our you know, taking care of our skin. You know, we have to take care of the body, mind, and spirit to be ready for work.
SPEAKER_01Right. Why do you think conversations like this, just honest ones about fame, the, you know, uh maybe the the what's the word I'm thinking of? The miss um misunderstanding, I suppose, of of fame and what it can look like. Um the the absolute misunderstanding that actors don't seem to have any issues with mental health, or you know, oh there is a perception of financial fear, or there's all of these things. And so why do you think right now it's important for for women, humans really, to to be willing and open to have conversations about mental health?
SPEAKER_03Oh, because it's long overdue. Um I I am glad that it's being talked about more. Um, there is a perception that what we do, I think that because people think like anybody can be on camera now.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03And there's a perception that we all must be very wealthy. Um it's like, well, uh, if you were unemployed for most of the year, and then you make a nice windfall, you you get a job, but you're always hustling.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There's you're always hustling, and that side of it really wears on your your spirit, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, the the the hustling and the all the things that you have to contend with when you're not on the job.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03And and and and as I was, you know, like really feeling age for the first time and really physically, you know, just feeling sick, you know, just not recovering from COVID, had long COVID. I remember, and and brain fog, and like it, it was like I I just felt like I was just thrown against the wall and I was just laying there in a heap. And I was like, how did I get there? And I felt so isolated, and so what do I do? And so, like that time before, I knew that this was another time where there had to be change, you know, that that I'm not okay, man. And I'm not okay in a lot of ways, and I knew it, I knew it. But then what do you do? So, okay, I did the same thing again. You know, you pick yourself up and you take one step at a time, and you begin to get well, and with that comes physically well, you know, physical strength started to come back, yeah, and I had a lot of support around me though, because I hadn't pushed people away.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03So I had, you know, I I had my family, I you were there, and my husband was there, you know, and we both like changed things in a in a big major way.
SPEAKER_01You did.
SPEAKER_03Because the thing is, I had a I had a trainer back during that last time when I got, when I said I got athletic, and he was 78 years old. Yeah, and he was kind of like Popeye. He looked like, you know, his arms were always out like this, and he was like, No pain, no gain. He was really all like the old-timey sayings. But he said one thing where he said, you can't stay the same.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And he would always do this. And I'd be like, Yeah, I thought it was like a cool peace sign, you know. And he said, No, this is you you can't stay here. You're either gonna go up or you're gonna go straight down. You can't stay the same, so choose. And and I was like, Joe, you know, his name was Joe, and he was like, Yeah, can't stay the same, Virginia. Come on, get up. And and he talked to me a lot about nutrition, and so I started remembering old Joe and started listening to people who were really helping me, and I started to reconnect with the universe, reconnect with prayer and meditation, and you know, a whole you know, group of family that, you know, helped me to be grounded again and start picking up these pieces and discarding what I didn't really need. Right. What was not serving me anymore, behavior that was not serving me anymore. And just it started to work. That momentum again. And everything started rolling, and and I have not stopped.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And it was it's always hard to do that when you want to make a really big change in your life. And Because the other thing is being older, it really sh it really showed. And I don't mean the beauty aspect. I mean, yes, that was starting. I mean, really, it really, you could see it on my face, you know, like people knew that I was not well. And and and a lot of people that you don't know very well are not really kind about that, you know. And what a world we live in. They're really kind when you look great for your age. They're really kind when you have you're being successful, and and you know, but they're not so much, I don't know why we're like that as to strangers. Um more condemning, I, I, I find. But anyway, that besides, I'm not worried about them. But when I started to, it it really was apparent that my life was sort of grinding to not to a halt, but it was just digging down further and further. Um, and I have enough awareness of myself to know that it could not go on. You know, that I had to make some really, really serious changes, little by little by little. And because I'll put a lot of pressure on myself, you know, that but I know that there's no quick fix. There's no like, I'm not gonna go to a spin class and feel like a new human being. I know that there's a lot that goes into it, and it doesn't happen in a week. And this happens like over days and weeks and months and years, but I'm glad it happened because I was riding high, you know, and then I wasn't. Um it was all really fun until it wasn't, you know. And so that's you know, and I could feel myself getting better. I knew that I was because I think my mom told me this that you know when you're when you're on the wrong path, it's really obvious, you know. Yeah, they it's really hard. Like you're running over bumps and you're rot knocking into things like you're on the wrong road, girl.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you feel it, yes.
SPEAKER_03Like look for another, look for an alternate route. My mom said, if all doors are closed, open the window, you know, or bust down the bust down that wall, go that way. Yeah, and and you know, and yeah, so that's what I'm doing. That's not what I did. Yeah, that's that's what I did, but that's what I'm doing. I love that. You know, and you know about that, and yeah, you know, and because I I'm lucky that I don't have toxic people in my life. That was, I think, when I was much, much younger.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03It was easier to have toxic people around.
SPEAKER_01Sure, yeah. You have just even thinking of some of the just immediate people you have in your life around you, just incredible.
SPEAKER_03You can choose uh it you can make better choices when you get older just from having so much experience.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03That I'm like, nah, I think that one, no, I don't hang out with that person. Yeah, no, I know where that's going.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, for sure. Um, what has been the most challenging role for you, would you say, in your acting career? And how did that experience shape you or even reshape you, really, as an artist?
SPEAKER_03Um, oh god, I gotta readjust for that one. Oh god.
SPEAKER_01Um take a five-minute break if you want.
SPEAKER_03I did this movie, wonderful film. Nicola Peltz directed this film called Lola. And she was wonderful. I was loved that she was, you know, a woman director. She wrote this, she believed in this, she got the financing, and she was really good. I hope that she would direct me in something else, but I I'm an abusive parent. And I'm abusive to her, and I'm abusive to she's my daughter in the film. And I have a uh uh like a a 10-year-old, and he was a wonderful little actor. He just like went with it. But you know, I had to be abusive to him and at one point physically, and and we really worked it out like he thought he was gonna, yeah, like he was a stunt man, you know. Like I showed him how to, you know, because I have to strangle him, I have to push him around. So we showed him exactly how he was gonna he was gonna be the one that did the throwing, and I would just, you know, yeah pretend. But this young boy was a really, really fine actor. He was like one of those prodigy kids, and you know, he's looking up at me with crying, I'm sorry, mommy, and he was just and I completely, you know, I don't think I should have done that role because that's not in me. And it really, it really shook me up. It was very, very hard, and I had to look at her and like call her trash, and and I did a great job in this role. I was it was a really good performance. Um we're watching tonight. It's you're really it's really good because the movie is also about um uh about uh someone who crashes and burns and and recovers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um but it affected you so deeply. Yeah. How long for after that?
SPEAKER_03I I just didn't go back to work for about six or seven months. I was really, really messed up from doing that role. And I've you know, I prided myself on the fact that I don't take my work home with me. You know, I leave it on the set, I know how to do that. And I was really, really shaken and and physically, mentally, and also I wasn't really well, I wasn't really strong physically anyway. And it really tore me up um to find that ugliness in myself. And I was like, you know, I'm not gonna play the abusive person anymore. Well, I'm not gonna play that kind of role. You know, I like playing a villain, I like being the bad guy. Yeah, but not that no, not with a child.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03I he was safe and everything. Of course, and but it that was that took too much out of me, and and I because I experienced it like too deeply, and yeah, it it was really hurtful, and and you know, the actor was fine, you know, and she was fine, but I was like, Can I just hug you at the end of the day? And I was like, you know, Nick had to come and pick me up because I couldn't drive. I mean, oh my god, how dramatic. But but I was very dramatic about it, I admit.
SPEAKER_01But you're also like an artist through and through. You really are, so I can understand how and I'm a I'm similar in nature um to where it's you know, and in the work that I do in real life, even, you know, to to where I've had to have some of those moments, not even as an actor, but as a human, where I'm like, what are you fucking doing? You're gonna die, like stop it, you know? And you're just like, oh, I don't feel good about that at all. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um I I that's not an area that I want to explore creatively.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, that's just not something that that was really that was that was the hardest thing that I ever had to do.
SPEAKER_01I would have never imagined that answer. So I'm everything after that, it it was just like your true villain roles, your Virginia villain.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, see, those are fun, those are those aren't fun when you get to be the bad guy.
SPEAKER_01What was your favorite villain role, would you say?
SPEAKER_03Oh, I loved playing this woman named Hookstratten in um Designated Survivor, and they didn't continue my role, but I was the um, he was the liberal democrat, you know, suddenly found himself president of the United States, and I was I was more qualified for the job, and I was the Republican, and we were going to, you know, we were aiming to go to a place where he and I would debate. And now that was a different time. People are really contentious, much more so now. Yeah, but it was I really had a lot to say. It was a way for an audience like to hear debate, which we don't hear debate anymore now. People are just yelling at each other. And I loved how clever she was, and they were putting her more in a position of villain. I don't say she was villain because she was a Republican. No, I know, I know she was gonna be quite conniving. Yes, I was going in that direction of really gonna be undermining him, and and he for Sutherland was like, you know, sort of, you know, playing Mr. Good Guy and like doing all the right things for the world. And I was going, really? I just I really wanted to continue because I just knew that I could just needle him, you know, and not him, but his character. Totally. And I that would have been really fun to to continue with that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, okay, so as we wrap up, just a couple more questions. I'm interested to know, are there types of roles or stories that you feel are still underrepresented?
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, friendships. Ooh. I I I I feel that this is for not just for women, but you know, I don't see real friendship depictions of friendship like a relationship movie. And and, you know, with women, I don't know what, but it seems to me that, you know, they they sit around with, they each have a tub of ice cream, you know, and they're they're they're you know, they're hanging out together and they're eating their ice cream and and then they get really tearful. And then at the end of the, but no matter how deep it gets, at the end of the scene, they go, every scene is they go, I know, I know, and I love you too. It's always, I mean, it turns, you know, I I I don't I mean maybe that's not it though, yeah. No, I I don't see like, and I really don't see that with with men. I don't see the friendships with men on screen. Like, do you remember that movie Master and Commander? And that that is Paul Bentney and Russell Crowe. And that movie, it's yes, big epic ships and the storms and all that stuff, but this is a I think that's the last time I saw a really strong friendship between the two men who are in these leadership positions. And I I know there are other examples, but um I I think I chose that one because it's like in a big action thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, some movies there's not room for, you know, to a lot of stuff like that. But but I feel like having more women writers um would help, more women directors would help. Um, because I I've just it it's hard to find in-depth relationships in scripts. Um, because you don't need a volume to tell a story.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03A lot can be said with very little time.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_03And I and I'm just not seeing that um written enough. And it it's so much a part of my life that you know, like this kind of conversation with you and I, the kind of connection that we have and how we listen to one another, I I just don't I don't find that on screen most of the time.
SPEAKER_01And you know, and then just the real life female friendship stories of like even, you know, how Virginia had to come, you know, move in with me basically for a while when I was going through my stuff, and just you know, those stories of what the lengths women really do go to for each other, those are such important stories.
SPEAKER_03And stories we can grow with one another when one's down, the other helps. And and I think that our kind our relationships evolve and we you know hold each other up. Sometimes we we we as much as we have joy, we can go through sorrow, but we hear each other. Yeah, we have open dialogue and communication that is not just about painting our nails, although I forgot to do that. Maybe we'll do that afterwards. I did not just say that.
SPEAKER_00And you and they are so far from those kinds of women, you know. Most women are far from that, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but they're represented so dumb.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and and very superficial.
SPEAKER_01Right. Um some of the conversations we've had, I mean, so far from superficial, truly, you know, and some of my favorite moments in life, just these deep conversations you can have with your girlfriends that aren't just about painting your nails and all of the things, but about like what's really going on in here so we can get some of it out and not have to hold it all ourselves, you know. And I always say, like, for as many men that have broken my heart in my lifetime, truly, there's always been a woman there to pick up the pieces.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, and that's I mean, how I feel like blessed with that.
SPEAKER_00Me too, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Knowing that, you know, my my big sister is there. She may be miles away, she's here with me today. She's here, but you know, we have a bond that can cross that distance, and we can rely on each other in the worst of times, and but also someone to say, hey, you you shouldn't do that anymore. You're not treating yourself right.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And truth. You know, we can speak the truth to one another, and um, and it's yeah, it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_01A sister is a best friend in a way that is very different to explain unless you understand it. I have a sister also, as you know, and um I I'm adopted, so I just found her less than 10 years. Oh my, we're coming up on 10 years now. Um, but yeah, the connection with a sister is such a different thing that I had never experienced until you know I found mine. And um, you know, we're going through a really sad thing in our family right now, but I, you know, it's I the pain is so palpable, I can feel it in another state, just like you were saying when, you know, you you share that type of a connection with somebody. Yeah. And then also I have found so many incredible sisters through my friends. Yeah, the chosen family. The chosen family, the chosen sisters and all of that.
SPEAKER_03And we we have too, you know, the what what my family has gone through. And and my sister is the only one that knows what it's like to lose my brother. Oh wow, I never thought about that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01She's the only other person in the world that knows what it's like to lose her. Wow.
SPEAKER_03And and it's and it's there, you know, the closeness of siblings does not always exist in families. Right. That in when that's a contentious relationship, it's that's really, really hard. Yeah. Um, I think we're you're you're I'm so glad that you guys somehow life you found each other. I know. It's meant to it's kizmet. And it and it it's working. Yeah. I mean, that's really something.
SPEAKER_01It's wild.
SPEAKER_03It's fairly unusual, isn't it? Don't you think?
SPEAKER_01It's very unusual to you hear so many stories about, like, oh, I met my family and they were so weird, and I don't really want anything to do with it.
SPEAKER_03I don't know what the background is or and did you find that you like have it it and what's the age difference? She's older or younger than she's younger.
SPEAKER_01She's 30.
SPEAKER_03Do you have any traits that are twins?
SPEAKER_00We're twins. I didn't know that. No, I mean we're not like actually twins, but we're twins. Like you left out the well, I wish I was 32. You have the twins. Yes, one twins.
SPEAKER_01It's wild. Oh, that's so interesting. The first time she came out that when I met her, we had Virginia was with me, of course. Um, and her and Evan were just, you know, blown away. Like, this is we're looking at like a mini Natanya, which is so crazy. And again, you know, growing up single child, you know, from a single parent household, mom robs you blind. Just I have such a typical child star story.
SPEAKER_03Huge different and yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean just by the time I'm 18, everything's gone. But finding a family at 35 years old in life is really wild to learn how to be someone's sister at 35 and someone's granddaughter and someone's cousin and someone's maybe if it had happened earlier, you would have missed that. Oh, well, if it had happened earlier, I would have been drunk. Oh I would have really missed it. Yeah. You know? And they certainly wouldn't have wanted me around in the way that they want me around. You know? Yeah. They I would have been the like, oh, she was weird. That's who I would have been.
SPEAKER_03I I think when we're down that road, um, it's really hard for anyone to share anything with us. You know, when when my life was so clouded, there's such a confusion that, you know, why is everything going wrong?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03Um it's like it's not anybody else's fault. It's not even yours. Like, just be nice to yourself. Like look within, uh ask for help. And and it's it makes you ready to heal. You look within, ask for help, makes you ready to heal and find the people that will help you get there. And and then you found her like at this period in your life, that's your your life right now is so rich and so full, and you have so much now that you can give.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03That that I see you giving, but you would not have been able to to show that before.
SPEAKER_01And if I didn't really truly believe in the universe's timing, I most certainly have never questioned it since especially my sister Simone.
SPEAKER_03So that's you know what, that's a good point too, is that things arrive when they're supposed to.
SPEAKER_01Rah at the second they're supposed to. Yeah, not a second early or late. And you know, um thank God. Thank God for that because it's been really the only way I've been able, or the universe, I suppose, has been able to protect me from myself in so many egregious ways. And I'm sure you can relate to that as well, you know.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's it's you know, it's hard to look at what we do to ourselves. It's hard to realize that, because then I'm just blaming myself, like, oh, look what you've made of yourself, look what you, you know. And instead of just looking at everything that I had done wrong, I was looking at, well, how did I get there? How did I get so sick? Right, you know, and when I realized that, I was already on the road to getting better, right? You know, to getting stronger.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03And so, yeah, it was, and then the things that have come to into my life to watch. Yeah, it's it's in it's really incredible that how transformational that can be. And it it's it's I'm really, really grateful to I'm that and I'm allowing myself to receive it, you know. Yeah. But it's like a thing that I do like every day. You know, it is that one day at a time thing that you, you know, you wake with when you wake, you face the day with intention, you know, whether it's meditation, writing, you know, um in in whatever your way of healing, you know, the the groups that I am a part of that hold me up and keep me on a spiritual course, that's been really transformational. Wow, you know.
SPEAKER_01All right, last question. Okay.
SPEAKER_03I could talk to you for days. Dinner. But we did, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We'll do that, Bob. When you hear the phrase, we're still here, babe, what does that mean to you? What does that make you think of?
SPEAKER_03Well, I liked that you called it that because it's kind of this is one of the gifts that comes with age is that you're like, wow, I'm still here. I'm still fucking here. And and I but I like that it's we're still here, we're still here. You know, we're still here, man. Still doing it. Like I'm still and and how my life has changed in the last couple of years to know that you continue, I continue to evolve, continue to change, continue to nothing stops when you turn 60, you know, and it life keeps on. If you're lucky, you get to be old. So how are you? What kind of old lady am I gonna be?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And uh so you gotta start now. And and so it's just it's kind of part of what I thought we're still here, babe. It's like right on.
SPEAKER_02I love that.
SPEAKER_03That's what I that's what I felt when I used to make right on.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I can see you in like just saying that right now at like in your 30s, 40s at like the canyon store or something, just like right on, man. Yeah, coming back up. Yeah, we're still here, babe. We're still here, babe. We're still here, babe. Thank you so much for doing this.
SPEAKER_03And thank you for asking me. Yeah, I just think it's it's wonderfully, it's wonderful to just reflect on how awesome we are. Well, you have such a now let's have some ice cream and paint our toenails.
SPEAKER_01Let's do it! Let's go. You have such an incredible story as a human, you know, not just even as an artist, just as a human being. And um, yeah, I glow.
SPEAKER_03I'm really glad that I didn't miss your story in my life. Thank you for being my friend.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for being my friend going.