We're Still Here, Babe
We’re Still Here, Babe, hosted by actress Natanya Ross, is a celebrity interview podcast that goes beyond the highlight reel. Featuring familiar faces from the ‘90s and beyond, each episode explores life after fame through honest conversations about mental health, recovery, resilience, addiction, trauma, personal growth, and the moments that happen when the cameras stop rolling. From iconic actors to unforgettable television and film stars, We’re Still Here, Babe offers a behind-the-curtain look at the human stories that remind us we’re all a lot more alike than we think. Because quitting was never an option.
We're Still Here, Babe
Ep. 6 - Eric Stretch
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This week on We’re Still Here, Babe, Natanya Ross welcomes Eric Stretch from the iconic ’90s group No Authority. Eric takes us behind the music, the memories, and his journey from ’90s performer to successful choreographer today. But this one is personal. Eric and Natanya have known each other since childhood and were once boyfriend and girlfriend. Years later, they’ve remained close friends who still share plenty of love, laughter, and fond memories. It’s a fun, nostalgic conversation about the ’90s, growing up, and the people who stay part of your story long after the chapter changes.
All right, you guys, my next guest has been one of the most important people in my life for decades. Back in the 90s, Eric Stretch was one of the stars of the charting boy band No Authority, the group signed to Michael Jackson's MJJ music label that toured with major acts like Britney Spears, Destiny's Child, 98 Degrees, and Pink. Since then, he has built an incredibly successful, I can't talk, Perimenopause, sorry, career as a choreographer and dancer. With credits spanning Broadway television film and live productions. But long before all of that, to me, he was my boyfriend. And as he likes to remind me, and I like to remind him, I was his last girlfriend. Somehow, all these years later, we've remained the closest of friends, and I'm so grateful we've reached a place in our lives and in the world where we can have the honest conversations we really couldn't have back then. So please welcome one of the most special people in my life, my dear friend Eric Stretch.
SPEAKER_01You guys, hello, and thank you. That's like the best entrance ever.
SPEAKER_05Oh my goodness! And I can't believe I'm like nervous.
SPEAKER_01Like my heart is like going fast. I'm like either I'm a little nervous now, too. I'm feeling so grateful, or a little nervous. And also my heart flutters still every time I see you.
SPEAKER_05Really? That's like the highest compliment from a game. Look, Eric, and I still flirt with each other a little bit. Don't tell our respective others.
SPEAKER_01I don't think I think it's pretty obvious.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's pretty obvious. How are you?
SPEAKER_01Um I'm do I'm so grateful to tell you that I'm doing really great.
SPEAKER_05I'm so happy to do that.
SPEAKER_01I'm so grateful to be able to see you.
SPEAKER_05I'm so happy to hear that.
SPEAKER_01How are you?
SPEAKER_05You know, I I am hanging in there. I'm sorry I'm looking down. Devin, will you sorry, we're gonna pause real quick. Devin, can you cut this? Push the buttons hard, please. Period. Please leave package outside. Apartment A.
SPEAKER_01Why did you cut that?
SPEAKER_05Not that hard.
SPEAKER_01That's hilarious.
SPEAKER_05Maybe we won't. We'll see. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna take us back because I mean, listen, I gotta give the people a little bit of what they want. And they want a little bit of the no authority. Okay? They want a little bit of the cannot get your number, baby. Dun dun dun dun dun.
SPEAKER_00It follows me.
SPEAKER_05Can you give them the next line?
SPEAKER_01Oh, hit well if I can hit you with the seven digits. I don't know about you, but I've been east and I've been west and I've been all around the world. All around the world, but never seen a girl like you.
SPEAKER_05I've seen some what? Oh, some blondes?
SPEAKER_01And brunette now, and some really hot redheads.
SPEAKER_05Okay, you guys, I'm I'm literally telling you, I told everybody that would listen to me in the 90s beyond, and still to this day that that line was written about me.
SPEAKER_00It was completely okay, great.
SPEAKER_05Because we were together at that time when that were song was so of course I was like, he wrote a song about me. Meanwhile, you had like nothing to do, probably well, maybe you did. I don't know. Did you write any of those songs?
SPEAKER_01Um uh no, I did not. But um Tommy, sorry, so there was me, Tommy, Ricky, and Danny, right? Um but before that, there was uh Josh.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_01Josh left the group after the first album, and then Tommy joined us, and that's when we had our biggest hit. Can I get your number?
SPEAKER_05Which is crazy. And just real quick, just to back up really, really quick, Josh. So the first, you know, who we're who he was just talking about, was actually one of my closest friends growing up, and that's how I met Ricky, which was long before you, before I met you. But I must have met you through Ricky.
SPEAKER_01Well, that just goes to show how teeny tiny the entire industry was, especially at that age and at that time.
SPEAKER_05Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01Um, but going back to did I have any creative control? Well, no, the answer is no. But when so I our first album was Rodney Jerkins produced our entire first album. And the one thing that I was so grateful about what our band did is we found pretty awesome talent that were just starting their careers. And because they were so talented that their careers took off so much and so high that by the time it was time to do our second album, we couldn't afford them.
SPEAKER_04Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01So, um, so when and then our first album came out before all the craze and everything. It was um it came out around '96, '96.
SPEAKER_05What was that one called? I've I can vividly remember the album cover. I just can't remember the name. Was it just no authority?
SPEAKER_01It was called Keep On.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01And um now I'm like, hmm, that's bad.
SPEAKER_04But uh the ING.
SPEAKER_01We were we were more RB. Um, we were I was 16 when we first started recording this album. Uh, and then it released when I was 17, and then we were pretty much touring all through my junior, junior high, high school. Sorry, yeah, no, not junior high, junior year, senior year of high school. So we had to finish everything on the road. Um, but anyways, so they saw that like that boy bands were doing really, really well overseas. So we were doing well in the states. We're actually doing pretty well, but then they're like, oh, let's ship these people all the way over to Europe, and then they didn't know how to treat a boy band, so they treat us like rock bands. We were like performing in bars, we're all under 18 performing in bars. It's insane. We had like this tiny little camper van that we traveled everywhere and having a frickin' blast in Europe. That's amazing. Did we have chaperones? Was my were my parents there?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we all of our parents were there, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Then and then um, so when we went to Europe, that's when Instinct and Backstreet came to uh the states, and then they blew up, but we had some success. We like we did really, really well.
SPEAKER_05And um you were you guys were out before them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, our album came out before we were compared to handsome before we were compared to anybody else.
SPEAKER_05Interest really interesting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then in Europe, people they did not think that uh the song and the album before they saw pictures of us did not think that we were four white boys.
SPEAKER_04Oh okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so take that out of it. And then um, so then when we came back to the States, Incinc and Backstreet were huge, and we got signed to uh Madonna's record label.
SPEAKER_05I remember that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so they wanted to change our sound that was more radio friendly at the time, and it was very, very, very poppy. And I was like, Oh, I feel like the pop thing is changing. I mean, I did actually have like some sort of insight behind it, and then when I got the demo of can I get your number, baby?
SPEAKER_05Can I get your number?
SPEAKER_01Hit me with the seven digits. That's the that's the time you're in. I was like, this is I hated it. Really? I think I threw it out of my my No way. I didn't like the song. And I don't think any of us were like, ah, it's kind of cheesy. I don't get it. And this was the demo, demo, demo. So it was like stripped down. And so we we went in, we recorded it, and then um they they mastered it and then they mixed it and came back and we listened to it in the studio and we're like, uh oh, it's an earworm, you're never gonna forget it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's gonna be our we're talking about it 30 years later.
SPEAKER_01And we're talking about it 30 years later.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So um, yeah, but then once we started recording our second album, understanding what was going on, I never really thought I was a very good writer. Um, and so I never wanted to create the world, but Tommy and Ricky really did, and they did actually uh write a song together on the album called Thinkin'.
SPEAKER_05So that's the third album.
SPEAKER_01No, second album.
SPEAKER_05Second album. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01We only did two albums. We only did two albums.
SPEAKER_05But can I get your number is on the second album? Yes. That's the one with the four pictures of you guys on the front. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I know I had it like cut, I like cut out only yours through the rest of the way, framed it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I probably did, honestly. Or you could do that.
SPEAKER_04Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_01But that and then and then but the the band well the song did really well, and you know, uh going back to what I was saying, the butt, we really we picked out really amazing talent, um, that were young talent, and that was kind of our joke. Our joke was like, all right, if you work with no authority, whether that's working with us creatively or um doing shows with us, your career will boost to start up.
SPEAKER_04And yeah, uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01My my fame, my uh, my party trick, if you will, is that uh Beyonce opened up for us twice.
SPEAKER_05I do remember that. I remember that.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes I say Beyonce opened up for me, but I should probably same. I mean twice.
SPEAKER_05So when did you guys know that it was like you know, one second album came around and you guys had kind of configured, reconfigured, I should say, the band and all of that. When did you guys know that this was big? Like, okay, now this is big. Because like when you and I were dating, you guys were opening up for Britney Spears and in sync, or or I don't even know if you were opening up for them. I think you were just part of a whole lineup, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we're doing like a bunch of radio tours and things.
SPEAKER_05That's what it was.
SPEAKER_01Radio shows and everything. So you do all these radio shows, but to go back to your question, um, I that's a really difficult. Actually, I don't think it's difficult at all. I think it's really important to talk about. So I went into this. Um, I went into an audition for no authority. I was 12 years old. Uh um, and so, and then there was callbacks, and so we were we were put together, but at the final callback, Ricky, Danny, and there's another couple guys that were in the group before, we all knew each other from the industry. So we already had we already had a friendship, and so then the producers were like, Well, that's the band, right? So, yes, we were put together, but we had known each other before, right?
SPEAKER_05And you guys have been, yeah, you guys had been together from like the jump.
SPEAKER_01So 12 1992.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I get it, I get it.
SPEAKER_01And so then when ever since I was a preteen, and I think that a lot of people can relate to this that are um that relate to this podcast, I was told that I was going to be a megastar. I was told that do this album, and you're not gonna be able to walk into a mall, you're not gonna be able to do this, all of this. How and and so even my mom, who was clueless about anything, uh, a southern woman that was like thrown into this industry with this kid that's like, I want to dance and I want to enter time. We're like, we believed them, you know. And so I was like, Oh, this is gonna be what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life, you know, and as like a and then like 13, like 13 and 14, that's when we really we didn't rehearse all the time, we hear like once a week, but that's when we really started working on our sound, doing demo tapes, and then so about three years we were doing that, being told all of these amazing things. Wow, so we finally got signed at the and like so we were working on our sound, and we won we got signed one place and that didn't happen. So when we finally got signed to Michael Jackson, when Michael Jackson's our album fell into his lap, or our demo fell into his lap, and he signed us, we were kind of like, Well, it's about time, right? Yeah, the the ego, well, it like just right. I yeah, the information that these adults are giving these young, young kids.
SPEAKER_05It's just dangerous, it's dangerous, it's dangerous, and so um, so we so we did our first album, and that was really I love being in the recording studio. I thought that was super fun, and um I used to come, I I was there for a lot of that album of that recording studio.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, that was the second album.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, the second album. What what studio where was that? That was in the valley somewhere, right?
SPEAKER_01I yeah, it was or was it Sunset Sound?
SPEAKER_05No, it was like called Street Streamworks or something, yes, and it was like in Burbank or North Hollywood or something like that. There was a basketball court out back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, not to be confused, not to be confused. Never mind, I can't say that. Okay, you actually can say whatever the fuck you want on this show, but you there's there's there's an adult house that catered to the event called something very similar to that.
SPEAKER_05Okay, not that one. That would have been fun too.
SPEAKER_01But not that one, that one's in Chicago, and if you know, you know.
SPEAKER_05If you know, you know, but this was a recording studio, and yes, I actually recording studio hadn't the had the honor uh of being there to watch them record this this brilliant album.
SPEAKER_01But yes, but I think I I think it's as tail as all this time. We were um releasing the record, we were going all over the country to promote the record, and we I because we all shared a room together, right? So um, and Ricky and I were sharing a room, we'd all like rotate, but Ricky and I were sharing a room this time, and we had the radio on and our song came on. And like that was wow, that was wild. And then we did a show, and I want to say we were in Virginia or close to DC, we're on the East Coast somewhere, and then we did a show that night, and people knew the words to our song, you know, and it might have been like a smaller venue, but I was like, oh crap, and I told myself this is not normal, do not take this for granted. Right, so as much as I would complain about some things that were not fair, the you know, in this industry, especially in the 90s, especially with kids underage or kids like trying to have their own voice, I always was like, do not do not take advantage of this and also take this all in. And of course, we started getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and we started doing bigger and bigger shows and opening up for these artists and living this really creative lifestyle, amazing lifestyle, red carpets, the whole nine. And I just was like, This is I don't know, I always just was like just enjoy this why it lasts. Just remember this, and I and uh yeah, that always stuck with me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't know why I thought that way. I don't know where my brain um, you know, clocked it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Because I thought it was never gonna end.
SPEAKER_01Never gonna end. Well, I mean, I I knew I was always gonna be doing something in this field. I just but then so then when we got dropped, I was like, what the what the fuck? I was gonna be this gajillionaire. I still couldn't go to malls. No, they were right about that. I still couldn't walk into malls. Um, and so like I don't know, did that I feel like that was a really long-winded way of answering your question?
SPEAKER_05No, I think that's exactly what everybody wanted to hear because the lore of the 90s boy band is so I mean, it's it's I would rank it as fascinating as the lore of the junky child star, you know, it's like the fascination with the phenomena of both is pretty wild, you know. So to have been in one of the more sucks, in my opinion, more successful boy bands of the 90s, um, you know, that, and I mean, should we just get into it? Are we about to get into it? Let's do it. I mean, if anyone, if any two people can do it, it's us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about, but let's do it.
SPEAKER_05That's what she said. You're like, not to you, I didn't bitch. Um, okay. So it's whatever 1990, mm, whatever like height of no authority is, right? I I I assume we're probably dating at that time-ish. Yeah. And do you know that you're gay at this time?
SPEAKER_01Uh 100%. Yeah. I knew I knew I was gay.
SPEAKER_05I knew I think I knew you were gay. No, I mean, I did everything I could to like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I knew there was something different about me at the age of 10.
SPEAKER_05Really? 10 years old?
SPEAKER_0110 years old, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Okay. And did you just keep that in to yourself?
SPEAKER_01I yeah, I I I knew I had that. I was like, I have to keep this in to myself. Yeah. And uh yeah, and I think I found a uh a mechanism of dealing with it through being outrageous and and hilarious and funny and crazy. So, but no, I knew I knew when I was 10 years old, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Right. And that's actually interesting thinking back on it now. Yeah, outrageous, hilarious, which could be like, no, he's not flamboyant, he's just like really funny, he's very, you know, boisterous. Or and then back in the 90s, the big thing was like he's just a dancer, you know. That's because people had just were so ignorant and had no idea what to say.
SPEAKER_01Um, so yeah, it was I I feel like I want to talk, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Well, say what go please.
SPEAKER_01So when I when when I was 10 years old and I just felt I felt like I had, you know, it was more about like a uh a love. I feel like you know, it was the when when you are when I I'll speak for myself because everybody's journey is different, is like like it was about falling in love with somebody of the same sex. That's what it really was. Like, you know, I I can love anybody but like falling in love. That to me was like and it was like this crazy different feeling.
SPEAKER_05And you knew it at 10.
SPEAKER_01When it was, I always thought that like I just had like these people that I really wanted to spend time with because I thought they were really good friends, but really when I look back at it, I had crushes on it.
SPEAKER_05Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Um but I was not ashamed of it when I was a kid. I was not ashamed. I thought it was cool.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01I thought it was a fun secret that I was gonna have to have, but I thought it was my secret and it was a fun secret.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01So I kind of had this really different relationship with it. Um, and then and then I was then I found out how to to manage it and deal with it. I was also in a in the arts, so you know it was that I was surrounded, but that doesn't matter. People are like, oh, why can't this person just come out because they're surrounded by other gay people? But it's not like that.
SPEAKER_05It's not like that. And that's the next thing I was gonna say is like in the in the 90s, in a huge boy band, you know, you don't you're not you don't have the luxury of just being like, hi, you know, I love who I want to love. Like it's not like that. There's labels. There's I mean, there's like um what do what did they used to call them? The clauses, the like um, like you have to behave clause. I I can't think of the it'll come to me, perimenopausal.
SPEAKER_00Um almost like a donut don't tell.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like uh no, like for example, Nickelodeon, you had to sign contracts separate from your contracts that said you would behave in public and represent the company and the network, you know, appropriately.
SPEAKER_01I have so much, so much to talk about that.
SPEAKER_05Right. So I'm wondering, you know, I don't know, like, I don't even know what your guys' like music industry is so different in so many ways, and it's very similar, but to the acting industry, I don't know if they tell you ahead of time, like, hey, this is what we would never want out there, this is what we do want out there. And then also, I mean, what was that like for you at a time when now you're like hanging on the poster of so many girls' walls? And and I'm sure boys, but you know, primarily girls, like the 90s boy band phenomenon was primarily geared towards young girls.
SPEAKER_011000%. And I don't think there was ever there was never a clause, or there's never a contract that we had to sign that's saying you can't do this, you can't do that. But again, once it once it once again, we were kids, we were young, and so the way that they would manipulate what we were allowed to do and not to do, like, you know, we could never remember like our manager. I don't even know if I want to say her name. But always, like whenever you're around, they're like, you can't be around because we had to give off this persona that we were like these guys that you know, and and they could potentially be our girlfriends. Right. Really, so and that was my job. So like I wanted to do my job, and I wanted to do my job good. And just about performing, sorry, I want to do my job well, um, but just performing on stage and pelvic thrusting. And getting the IC in the bridge. That was only one part of the job. The other part of the job is this persona and is this um, you know, like we did hours and hours and hours and hours of signings, you know, before shows, after shows, just to get some fans to call in the radio station. Um, so so with that being said, when I actually I was on tour, we were on tour with Nickelodeon. Nickelodeon all that tour.
SPEAKER_05Shout out. And um, we were Nickelodeon all that tour. I didn't that's the one I was able to go to because it was because I was working and finally I because that one was in LA, from what I remember. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We did that for two years. There was two, there's two seasons of it, and it was during the summer, obviously.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I was I came to well, I I remember I I came to the like for I came to the first one, and then I remember Jenna and her friend got to go to the one in Virginia or something, and I was like so pissed because you and I were.
SPEAKER_01We still talk to that girl too, by the way, via social media.
SPEAKER_05Well, we all yes, yes, of course. Um, but I'm so pissed. I'm like, we're broken up, and I still love him. I was like, tell him I said hi.
SPEAKER_01We we broke up be we were already broken up.
SPEAKER_05So we broke up.
SPEAKER_01Sorry about that.
SPEAKER_05That's you know, you had to do what you had to do. We broke up. I okay, so I had our I had broken up with Ben Gould, who was like my first patron, my first love, all the things. And then there was like a six-month separation period, and that's when I met you guys. And it was actually like ironically, Ricky started hitting me up, and I thought he was like hitting me up like romantically or something, because he was like kind of moving like that. And I was like, Oh, that's that's interesting. I mean, I've known Ricky since I'm 11 years old at auditions and all the things, and um, and he was like, Yeah, come can't come hang out with us. I was like, Okay, sure. I was like, Can I bring my friends? Can I bring something for safety? Like, am I okay? So I like met up with you guys somewhere. I don't even know how it all happened.
SPEAKER_01Maybe I remember meeting you. I remember meeting you for the very first time is at Oakwood apartments.
SPEAKER_05Well, yeah, okay, then there it is. It must have been at Oakwood.
SPEAKER_01Oakwood.
SPEAKER_05And um, and then we took over Oakwood. I mean, I had already been taking over, but then you and I, as a power couple, took over Oakwood right after that. Yeah, that must have been at Oakwood. Um, and then we we dated for yeah, so that was after Ben. So we dated for like a year almost. Yeah, we did for and many of my friends during that year told me we love Eric, we're obsessed with Eric. Eric is gay, Natanya. And I said, he is no, he is not. And even if he is, I do not care. Like, I just loved you so much, and I think obviously a piece of me knew that too. You know, no 17-year-old boy stops you every time you get to a certain point. So there's but you know, listen, you have a mom, I have a perfume, perfume, mom. Listen, anyone drunk can make out, right? Like, like that's just a thing that anyone can do that. But, you know, if you're not necessarily into women in that way, it's gonna be a little harder to go further. And, you know, it's at 17, all I was used to was men falling on, you know, wanting to have sleep with me or whatever. So with you and I, you know, but we had so much fun. Like we were best friends. We spoke a secret language so much, though, you know, and we still can't. So we we still can't. So what was that like for you at that time? You're a huge boy band star. You have millions of girls around the world screaming for you and writing, writing the fan mail with the posters and the god and the teen beat shit bop magazine they used to make us do back then. It was like incessant. And for the women, it wasn't even like super bad, it was like non-stop for the men. Um, I mean, I we're sitting on like 300 teen beat magazines that Nate's on the cover of, you know what I mean? Like, we're just like, what the fuck do we do with these things? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01My mom kept all those.
SPEAKER_05That's why I have a whole I love that actually. And so then, and you're dating a girl who's I mean, I was pretty popular, I would say. So, like, I guess, you know, like breaking up with Natanya at that time might have been, I don't know, you know, and I'm also a public figure, and we've we we went on a couple red carpets together. I don't think our relationship was this big, like publicized thing, but I think, you know, if you were in the 90s and you were catching up with like what was going on, I'm sure a couple people knew about us, you know. What I love is I think people found out later in our adult life, yeah, which is so special. But what was that, what was that like, all while knowing you probably had to break up with me any second.
SPEAKER_01I think you're talking about me actually coming out.
SPEAKER_05And so did I skip like super ahead?
SPEAKER_01Well, you have a lot to do with that. So I I had I had a I had an agreement with myself of how to handle it on my on my own and keep it a keep keep it a secret. And then I created these these situations with these people, especially with you, let's say, that I love so much.
SPEAKER_05I you're yeah, I have you're gonna destroy me right now, aren't you? No, but like why did I wear mascara? I'm a dumbass. Okay, go on. Ding ding ding. Ding ding ding. Okay, sorry guys, we took a little, we had to have a little editing thing there and take a room change.
SPEAKER_01I had to move rooms.
SPEAKER_05That's okay. Okay, so what we were saying was you were saying, and I said you're about to make me cry.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so basically, you know, coming to terms with actually coming out. So when I when I was 10, knew I was gay, um, I but I found I could keep it a secret, and then I couldn't keep it a secret any longer. And the hardest thing for me was not the career, it was not the band. It was not, it wasn't these things. It was what I felt like I had done and what I had lied to to you and to other people that I that I held so near and dear to my heart. I didn't want to break their heart. I felt like I it was better for me to suffer and to be unhappy than to break somebody else's heart. Yeah, you know, and you're the top of that list. Um, so because I loved you so much, and I still love you so much. I know I I couldn't have a romantic relationship with you. And so I feel like and on and this is where I should apologize, and a lot of gay men should apologize to some what they've done to their last girlfriends, is because we thought maybe we can figure it out. We thought maybe we can manipulate like the the people that because they're the reason why we love each other so much is because of our souls and our spirits and like our personalities and and and and how we are together as friends. We still annoy the people around us.
SPEAKER_05Still and honestly, if you had said to me then, like, do you want to maybe do a lavender? we'd be married by now and like poor Rob and Nate, you know, but like they wouldn't know us because I would have been like, Fuck, yeah, let's do it. And you just do whatever you want. I don't care.
SPEAKER_01You know, that's how tight we get. I used you to see if I can't make this life work with this person who with you, who is like the most fun life you can ever possibly imagine to want with a partner, basically best friends, you know, then like I can't, and then that was like, and then I was dealing with that, and I do think I broke up with you because of of that deep down inside, but it was right.
SPEAKER_05It was but it was a different reason. Do you remember the reason? No, I do. Am I okay? Am I not over this? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But sidebar, there's this an account on TikTok, and it the way they start their thing, everything is like, I'm Samantha, and I married a gay man, and we had a child. And I'm like, you bitch, how did you pull that off? And they had a child the natural way. And I was like, Oh, you lucky.
SPEAKER_01How did you do that?
SPEAKER_05He did, I don't know. It's just, and he's not, and he identifies as a gay man, so you know, he literally, as we're talking about, he just married, he said, that was my best friend. It was my best fucking friend, and that, you know, to me, I guess was more worth it than, you know, but that's not what I would have wanted for you. That, you know, I want you to be happy and be you and be with the person that you're meant to be with, which wasn't me. And and I hate that you say you feel like you used me. I mean, in so many ways, I take it as a huge compliment, you know, like biggest, like one of the biggest boy band stars in the world, like I'm his beard. Hello. Yeah, I've been trying to tell you guys Queen of the Nine Queen of the Gay since the 90s. I mean, I was not lying. But I thank you for saying that though, because yes, I was very in love with you.
SPEAKER_01It was it wasn't about it wasn't a sexual thing. It was it was I wanted to fall like it was falling in love. Like it wasn't just so like so I can understand how someone can get aroused and create a child without the emotional connection. That's not what I wanted. I wanted the love. The love. That's and I think once I figured out that like, oh, I I was searching for this love, um, and then we broke up and I don't remember how and then I'll tell you in your day. And then we went back on tour with another closeted guy in a in a band that was on tour with and and um kissed me, and I was like, that to me, kissing is way more intimate than having sex.
SPEAKER_05Always, yes, always, yeah. I could actually forgive sex and cheating probably more than kissing, to be honest.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So when um when I was like, um I can't do this, nobody knows. Um that's when I was like, I can't do this anymore. So dealing with you know, that and also another huge reason that was really difficult for me to come out so late when everybody knew, and then of course, but I didn't want to change the dynamic of my boy band either. Like when you're in a boy band uh or any band, if you're in a music group, you're you share bathrooms, you share beds, you share everything together, right? And so I was so scared that because we were so close and we had our own sort of uh like men, male, masculine, not masculine, um like brother, you had a brotherhood.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and in the 90s, if you say you're gay, your dumbass friends are like, Are you gonna try and fuck me? And you're like, Yeah, I didn't want that to change.
SPEAKER_01I didn't want it any more.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you're like, you're not cute enough. I know I'm kidding, they're all gorgeous, but people were so stupid, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I didn't want to change that dynamic. I didn't care about the record label, I didn't care about what the fans think, I didn't care about those kind of things. I cared cared about breaking people's hearts because I was going through something that I was going through and also changing the dynamic of of my group because the group meant so much to me. Because at that point, we were together for nine years. Right. Because we went on for another year and a half after that. We were in the and we were in the band together for 10 years from the ages of 12 to 22. Like those years, those informative years are crazy. Now we weren't together once once our album hit, I saw them more than I saw myself in the mirror. You know? So yeah. And then of course, when I did come out, everyone was like, Yeah, duh. Yeah, you know, like, of course, we're you know, we're just waiting for you. And I thought that was so that there's a quote that I don't remember I heard it from, but sometimes the hardest thing you could possibly do ends up being the best thing for you.
SPEAKER_05Always, yeah. You know, so god, it's so true. I remember you called me from the road to tell me. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah, you called me from the road. It was probably about six months after we had broken up. And I don't remember if we had talked a little bit like here and there. Obviously, I needed a couple months for the dust to settle. As I was I told you the other day, I was driving on like the 405 screaming, do you believe in love after love after love after love?
SPEAKER_01The fact that you were trying to get over me with the share song.
SPEAKER_04Come on. I mean, I know. I should have known.
SPEAKER_05I should have known what was I gonna put on the R TLC no scrubs? Like, come on.
SPEAKER_01By the way, came on my playlist today at the gym.
SPEAKER_05Of course it did. Yeah. Oh, of course, because the gym was our song. That was for the audience listening. Sorry, yes, we should explain a couple things. We have a few inside jokes you'll hear, I'm sure, along the way. And one of our songs was um the Joan Baez, if God was one of us and booty slap and booty slap. Okay, now granted, Eric came up with that while we were dating.
SPEAKER_00How God was one of us and booty slap and booty slap.
SPEAKER_05Like, how I didn't know. I mean, I did, you know, it's okay. I loved him so much. And then our other song was TLC no scrubs.
SPEAKER_00So on the passenger side.
SPEAKER_05Of my best friend's ride. And you Eric would like roll through through uh Oakwood with like whatever cool car, the the truck, the truck to like pick me up. I had a pickup truck. Pickup truck, you guys. What was I thinking, you guys? He had a pickup truck, and Natanya Ross is his girlfriend. Like he was trying. He was trying.
SPEAKER_01So I did everything. I tried.
SPEAKER_05Ah so listen, okay, so we break up whatever, you know. Listen, a 17, 18-year-old girl's heart breaks in a million pieces, but you know, you recover faster at that age, I suppose. And then unfortunately, I met somebody who um, you know, led me down a path where your life, even after no authority, was about to become very, very different than what my life was gonna look like for the next however long, you know, and it's been God, it's been such an interesting thing, like talking to a couple of my like my bet people that are still my best friends from from that age, like 15, 16, like you said, formidable age to now. Oh my god. And you know, um, so we'll get there in a second, but so I want to hear, so so after how does no authority just like disban? Is that how you say it?
SPEAKER_01Uh sure. Um we basically Wait, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_05I'm so sorry. Please go back. So when you were on tour and you were like, I need to come out, but you didn't want to, we've skipped over that whole thing. I'm an idiot, and you didn't want to break the hearts of the people that you loved and that loved you and all of the things. I think I know the story, but you came to you came out to somebody that was like outside your friends and family first. Am I right?
SPEAKER_01Or no? Not really. Um I yeah, the first heart.
SPEAKER_05Or was it your best friend?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was one of my best friends, but a friend that I grew up with.
SPEAKER_05Um I know.
SPEAKER_01Her name's Micah.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I do not know her.
SPEAKER_01Do I think you might you guys have met before? You guys were both in auditions together when you guys were 10 years old.
SPEAKER_05I'm like a Perry Mummer.
SPEAKER_01Which who I was with yesterday, actually.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god. Just all the the small world is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I knew I was gonna do it.
SPEAKER_05Wait a second, I did meet her at the the the California Dreams reunion at Hotel Ziggy. She was there to see Jenny Kwan, correct? That's her. And she came running up to me. She said, Are you Newtonian? Are you Newtonian? I was like, and you know, I thought it was a fan. I was like, I was like, let me get my mirror out. I know you want to take a picture. She was like, oh no, no. She's like, I'm it was not that dramatic, but she was like, I'm friends with Eric Stretch. I was like, shut up. So, and then we took a picture and sent it to you.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Michael, Michael was at all those parties.
SPEAKER_05She was wow, that's crazy. I don't remember.
SPEAKER_01I I uh I kind of felt like, yeah, so no, I because we were we did a bunch of sake bombs uh at Tokyo Delves, um, as you do. Shout out to Tokyo Delves, who probably got close because people's IDs right, right, right, right. And it was sort of like a drunken thing that just sort of came out, and then um with Micah, yeah, felt like that was wow, so freeing. And then um, and of course, you know my family and you know my sisters. Um I don't remember the order. I just remember she was the first on this that I actually said the words to, and then it started then I it like the more and more people that I didn't tell was because I knew that they were gonna be fine. It was the people that I was scared to tell that I could tell right away. Right? So my so like my best best friend Amber, who you still know Amber, Amber is still in life, we still talk almost every other day. I she was one of the last ones to know. She was she was one of the last ones to know because I was like, I wasn't worried about you, right? I was worried about I was worried about my parents and my brother who feels like he reads me and and should be how to throw a football, which I still can't, right?
SPEAKER_04Right, and also Amber, I have a girlfriend. She might want to, she needs to know. She's gotta move on.
SPEAKER_01Uh but oh my god, my sisters still and my mom.
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh. I will say this. Your sister, both your sisters, your maybe even your mom, I can't remember, but definitely both your sisters called me like every day after we broke up for months and months, and then also called me after you had, you know, come out just to check on me. And I was like, I knew. I really did know, and it's okay, you know. I'm just so happy for him. So um I, you know, you and I have such a success story. I had um we interviewed Danielle Fischl uh two weeks ago, I can't remember now, and you know, she told us a little bit of her story with Lance, and I was like, Yeah, I mean, I I I can relate. I I had a similar experience. I mean, maybe not on the same scale, but um I dated, you know, a boy in a boy band named No Authority, and she was like, What's his name? I said, Eric Stretch. She said, Oh my god, no. She said, Yeah, I knew him when we were like babies, and I was in love with him. I had the biggest crush on him, and I like, you know, I didn't, I don't maybe she doesn't remember. I don't know. Danielle, you're gonna have to text me and tell me. But I guess Eric remembers that you guys dated. Danielle.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because Danielle would come over. My uh um her mom would bring my mom. Oh, sorry, yeah, her mom would bring her uh her over to my house.
SPEAKER_05Okay, don't get it twisted. They were like three, four years old people.
SPEAKER_01So 10?
SPEAKER_05Oh, great.
SPEAKER_04That's a little harder to swallow, but whatever.
SPEAKER_01I think my mom was so my mom was so interested to talk to her mom because we both had agents, they were both and we're in like the middle of nowhere in Orange County, right? Uh and um but we we were at the same elementary school together, and we both had crushes on each other, and we would go swimming and we'd go underwater and like oh my god, that's actually that's T.
SPEAKER_05That's T.
SPEAKER_01So T. I I remember deny all you want. I remember. So you're you're two broke up with her, and then I broke up with her on a on a note in school.
SPEAKER_05That's see, now that's what I heard about. Was it was she remembers it more. We maybe just gave her some PTSD. I'm so sorry, babe. She remembers it more as a note of like, do you like me or not? Check yes, check no, I think is what she told us. But regardless, I don't remember she did fine. She she went on to do fine, she was okay.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I'm so proud of her. I'm so proud of her, and I'm so proud of what she did with Dancing with the Stars, what she's doing on Idol, and her all of it. Her Instagram.
SPEAKER_05And I'm really proud of what. Her and Lance did too because, you know, they made it very important to tell their story very early on, you know, when they could have waited till things were bigger, or whatever what have you. And I took notice of that right away. And it obviously that means a lot to me because of our story and everything. And uh the shock I felt when Danielle also said she had a uh entanglement with you. I was like, oh wow, okay. I'm like one night. Hi, Lance. Hi, how are you? Are you sure? No, um, but I also have now dubbed Eric and I the teamu version of Danielle Fitchell and Lance Bass, and we'll take it. We love it.
SPEAKER_01With honor.
SPEAKER_05With honor. We are that. We are that. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I see Lance all the time, and he's lovely in the TV.
SPEAKER_05Well, can you let him know the new joke then, please? That would be great. And I'll let Danielle know. I'm actually seeing her tonight. That's so funny. Yeah, we're going to the um Chloe night. We're going to the Boy Meets World um live finale uh season finale ending for the podcast. Yeah. So that'll be good. Um, okay, walk us through. So now you've told your your people, and now you're free. You can be free. You're not, are you still in no authority at this time?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the the band was like, all right, moving on. Next.
SPEAKER_05Okay, great. So how how much so this went on a you went on a year and a half longer?
SPEAKER_01About that, I think. Okay.
SPEAKER_05Did you come out publicly? I don't rem that I don't remember. No.
SPEAKER_01No, I never did. Um I I probably, I don't know. It was it was still the 90s. It was still pretty taboo. Like it really was, yeah. I I just thought that the gonna be these secrets that I was gonna have now that everybody knows my secret, and not the world has to know my secret.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01But these people, I was yeah, yeah. Um yeah, so how did the band end? Um, I think what happened was is that like we our record label dropped us. Um we were they spent a lot of money on us, we did not recoup it.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01So business, it's called show business.
SPEAKER_04Business, baby.
SPEAKER_01Um, they dropped us, but there are other record labels uh that were interested in um in signing us back. And uh I think Ricky wanted to go on his own, uh, and Annie was done.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_01Done with the industry. He was like, like he wanted to go into something else, and he was just you know done. And it was Tommy and I. And I was like, I just don't see this happening between just the two of us. I feel like if if we're not in this as a group, then I don't think I should be in it, you know. Like we did do a couple of performances without Danny because he quit before everybody else.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Um I do remember that actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, so but like it was bummed because Danny was probably one of the most popular um because he was so good looking. But he didn't sing a lot on the album, so we we could take over without Danny being there. The fans were furious, but hopefully we could do it.
SPEAKER_05Wow, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Ricky wanted to go on his own, and so I was like, I'm out. And I like I was like, I guess this is over. I remember leaving this uh we were we did a show with Aaron Carter, and it was like this really well, don't get me started on that whole thing.
SPEAKER_02It's tragic.
SPEAKER_01So um we yeah, I remember like we got on our tour bus and we were in like Santa Barbara or something. We weren't far from home and we're like, I think that was our last show together, and we took, and I don't even think we took the bus home. I think we all got into like our friends' cars or something, and just I remember just like away. It was just like really bizarre, and I remember being a lot of dust because it was like a fair or something.
SPEAKER_03Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Um very dramatic. Um it wasn't dramatic, it was just kind of like I guess this is it. And then I I was like going back to what I was saying, I was like, what the fuck am I gonna do now?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was told my entire year, I ended this ended at 22. All my friends that were not in the industry were just graduated college. I was like, I barely finished high school, was I gonna go back to school? I was a terrible student. Um, and I was just like, Well, I was told this was gonna happen. And then and then like I just I just I would I didn't go through depression. I'm not a person that gets depressed or anything like that, but I just went to be like who's gonna also who's gonna tell me what to do? I was told what to do my entire life. Like, wake up at this time, go into hair and makeup, you're doing this interview, and then the only thing that we really had control over ourselves was our performances on the stage. That's where we can really be our told what to do my entire life. Um and so now I'm like, well, they're like, what do you want? And I was like, I don't want to do an album. That was not something I that wasn't your thing. No I would know, but I wouldn't have the confidence. I didn't have the confidence to do it on my own. I actually got offers from certain certain record labels, and I was like, I just I don't know. I feel like it'd be a fraud. I was I was love I even to this day, I still love being a part of an ensemble.
SPEAKER_05Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Um, and then like a couple months went by, and an agent of mine that I had when I was 12 years old, I was like, um, what do I do? And she's like, Well, you're a great singer, you're a great dancer, you should go in for this show on Broadway. Um, it's called Aida. It's Elton John and Tim Rice. And I was like, A Vita? I didn't know I no idea. I love theater, but I never I didn't know anything about it.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Um I went I went into my uh his name is Eric Vitro. Shout out to Eric Vitro. He's he he going back, we could afford him when he was just really, he was already pretty established by the time we started working with him, but now he is literally the voice teacher to the stars. Uh he's like he didn't know. Is he really all the the wicked uh girls and he's okay okay?
SPEAKER_03Everything don't forget to talk about that, please.
SPEAKER_01And so uh, you know, I called him and I was like, hey, I got a uh call because I know that he worked with a lot of theater people, and he's like, You can't afford me. It's like oh I was like, Eric, I don't know what to do, please help me. And he was like, I got you. He also knew I was a little queer kid. I guess I think that he like an out had a special place in his heart for me. So he came in. I think he charged me like a hundred dollars with he lift normal, like a thousand. That was back then.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's yeah, it's crazy now.
SPEAKER_01It's um but worth it. He showed me what to do in an audition room, like give me a crash course, he showed me what song to sing, and so and I and uh I went in and I I danced first and I knew I could uh dance for one of these people.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That we know and then in LA there's dancers can't sing for the most part. It's very segregated, which I would love to get into that too, because that's kind of my my mission statement now.
SPEAKER_05Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01They're 40 and um so I went and and I and I booked it. I booked it, and so then I was like, I guess Broadway is my journey, and so I knew nothing. Knew nothing. I walked into the first rehearsal and everyone was like this this douchebag. Because I was I was wearing a hat all like sideways, and I was like still boy band training. That's all I that's all I knew.
SPEAKER_05Was this in New York?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that well, this is the national tour first, okay, okay. Yeah, so and I love being on tour, and I knew how to be on tour. Yeah, anyways, it took me it took me a couple months to understand what it was, and I had to take my ego had to take a huge hit because I was an I was an ensemble member in a Broadway show, and so when I went to the stage door, they nobody was there for me. Nobody was there for me, and that was like oh gut wrenched, and then I found out that I have a 401k, and I was like, Well, I was like, fame, future, uh so, but that was a hard thing for me to to to to figure out for my own ego. Yeah, but again, I fell in love with being an um an ensemble person, creating anything together with everybody. I fell in love with the community, I could be my authentic homosexual self, right?
SPEAKER_04Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Fell in love with the man for the first time. Uh, and so it was like I just freed me and allowed me to be all these things, and then I was wrapped up in that bubble for such a long time, and then I moved to New York. Broadway was really good to me. I got to do Wicked. I was one of the first replacements on the Broadway cast. So I got to work with everybody, fell in love, did another, it wasn't a ri originated another Broadway show, and then um, yeah, so that's now I'm I'm all things.
SPEAKER_05So going and you did Wicked in LA also. Did Wicked in LA because I saw I came and saw you a few times, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That was fun. Wicked was a big show.
SPEAKER_05That was like Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_01It feels good to be important, it feels good- Yeah, and like there's when you do like, and sometimes I don't like it's fine to not always have attention or feel important or doing something that you're proud of. It's fine to not do that. But when you when it happens, it happened to me the other day, I was like, oh damn it. It feels good to be wanted, and it feels good to have some attention, and it feels good to notice.
SPEAKER_05It does, I've it does. I've gotten quite a I mean, so many hundreds and hundreds of messages and DMs just saying how much each episode has meant, and it's been such different feedback episode to episode, you know. Our first one that came out was Virginia Madsen, and you know, she has a different bit of a demographic and and just a very, very like old school Hollywood fan base, you know. I mean, she's an a c Oscar nominated uh actress, so that that's a different level, some different level shit.
SPEAKER_01That like, oh just Oscar nominated, no.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah. Oh, I thought you were about to literally pick up an Oscar, and I would not have been shocked. You do have one?
SPEAKER_01I'm not allowed to touch it.
SPEAKER_05In the closet? Is Rob okay? You should have it hanging from the fucking ceiling. I'm calling him later.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it's there, it's like it's it's like locked.
SPEAKER_05It's like, oh, it's like in a vault.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like locked away.
SPEAKER_05And and it's he won it?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01You think we won any of these awards? Yes. Did Rob won?
SPEAKER_05Oh, of course, Rob won a bunch of them, and you and whoever.
SPEAKER_01Rob won some Emmys for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yes, for RuPaul, correct?
SPEAKER_01RuPaul Drag Race, um, um, also for So You Think You Can Dance because he worked on that show and also uh Project Runway.
SPEAKER_03That's right, that's right.
SPEAKER_01But he has a sports Emmy. A sports Emmy. Y'all, if you know this guy, he is he doesn't stop dancing, and he yeah, he worked for Nickelodeon, and Nickelodeon aired uh an animated one of the NFL wild card games uh through with SpongeBob, and it was huge, and he won a sports email.
SPEAKER_05That's so amazing. Yeah, he's he's really incredible. Okay, talk to me about when you said I want to get into that because I I want to clear up that misconception. I'm not sure what you were gonna get into, but get into it when we were talking about like dancers being singers, or or yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think I I think um, you know, when it comes to being somebody who was who was brought up in the 90s in a very, very uh limelike kind of area, being told what to do and all these kind of things, right? Getting into a professional world and having success that still stays with you. The education that you get is will stay with you forever. The education I got was so unconventional and didn't make any sense, right? It did to me because it was mine.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01So wanting to so the the thing about show business, business of show, uh, is about the relationships that you create with people and having longevity, having the longevity. So going from boy band 90s pop star breaking Natanya Harris's heart.
SPEAKER_04Breaking Natanya Ross's heart.
SPEAKER_01Um telling her I was a homosexual on a Nokia cell phone somewhere in Kansas.
SPEAKER_05Flip-flown at that, baby. The very real quick, the very first brick phone I ever got, I got in trouble over and over and over because it was always 714. You know your number. I like went over all the minutes and I would never she's like, Don't come up to up to 9 p.m. And I'm like, I would come up at 9 a.m. I'm like, hi, babe, I love you.
SPEAKER_01Oh god, I remember I remember I got the phone that it was like it was like I didn't have to wait till nine, I could wait till eight. But nobody else had the feature, so nobody would pick up the phone between eight and nine, so it didn't matter.
SPEAKER_05That was so funny. I remember waiting for you to call me at Jenna's house once. It was like Valentine's Day. It was eight o'clock at night. We still, we had just met, like a week prior. And I'm like, there's no way this guy's gonna call me on Valentine's Day, like a week after you we meet. Jenna's like, watch, he's gonna call. And Jenna's everyone was like waiting, and you called like the last second, like 8 p.m. I looked, I'm like, oh my god, it's the 714, it's the 714. Because it didn't say Eric stretch, it only said your phone number, yeah. And then I was like, hello.
SPEAKER_00And I was trying to I was like, yeah, so you're like, hi.
SPEAKER_05Okay, okay. So you guys, I'm sorry, I know. We go on so many tangents, we're ridiculous together. It people probably just can't even keep up. But or they have kept up and have really enjoyed this so much, because I know we have. But tell me what you were gonna tell me about the whatever's going on in the dance industry. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I think no matter what you do, if you do something successful, you will always end up wanting to share that um information with people. So, you know, like so I uh you know, I went if I went uh really into the musical theater Broadway world, New York. It was fantastic. But I was somebody who didn't know anything, and so I had to learn on the job. I was really good at learning on the job. I still want to learn on a job, I still want to be a sponge. And then um when your career starts like going somewhere, you're like, hmm, you know, like I was I was I was I'm a I'm a really good singer and I'm a really good dancer, but like I I always thought I was okay. Well, I was actually a pretty good actor, but I just couldn't remember words. I just like I could not retain words. So I was like, okay, well, what's my next step? You know, and like knowing what my education was. So like so then when it came to a place where I wanted to be like, well, you know, like everyone has this taboo and negative thing about people who teach uh and become these educators. And I'm like, that's bullshit. I was like, because I have all of this stuff, it doesn't matter how successful you are, you have an opportunity to share that success and share things for younger artists.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01So then I started getting into that world. Um, because I didn't know what I was like, I didn't have any, I don't know what to sh how to share. Once I found what my vice was and how I found out what I wanted to do as an educator, um also I don't still don't love being called an educator because I'm not. I I do it because I can I have a lot to say, but that's not my thing.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01It was when I and then I I moved back to LA and LA is for some reason has this taboo negative thing about musical theater. It's like it's it's almost like the butt of a joke, you know. Oh, that's musical theater, it's musical theater. Motherfuckers, it is the hardest form of entertainment that you can. So, and also it's not going anywhere, and also there are so many shows. So, like, don't I don't care if you have an issue with musical theater or not, or you fancy yourself a dancer and not a singer, or you fancy yourself a singer but not a dancer. Do you want to work?
SPEAKER_05Do you would have an issue with that though? I that's crazy.
SPEAKER_01So I when came back to LA, you know, and I was so like all these people are the most fierce, most amazing dancers. But the second they hear about musical theater, they they're like, Well, I don't sing, or like, uh, I want to just be a contemporary dancer and live in a fierce lunge and you know dance my feelings. Like, oh, cool, that stuff is a great art form. There's no money in it, right? Right, there is money, but it's not like it's about the longevity, right? So if you like, and I I just feel like I my mission statement is now where I'm at, is I want to make musical theater cool in Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_04Like, I love that.
SPEAKER_01Why is it not like the coolest? Like, Wicked was really like was really popular when I we were here now. Yeah, yeah. Hamilton becomes his hot ticket, but why are we not having amazing because there's so much amazing talent here?
SPEAKER_05There's so much amazing talent. I'm gonna give a huge shout out right now to Jack's Theatricals. It's this incredible theater, musical theater company owned by um these two gay men and their partners. And one of my other gay bestie, Brian, he just like got so brave and auditioned. And he he has a similar story. He did Broadway off Broadway, all this stuff and just musical theater over and over and over in New York when he was younger, but he was a young gay man battling a drug addiction. And that's a whole other world there. You know, chemsex is um a very real epidemic we're looking at, which um can be anybody, but it's it's it's usually, you know, gay men with chemicals, you know, usually methamphetamine in the community that um so and now Brian has c been just the most incredible advocate for he works in a treatment facility called Breathe Life and Breathe Life Healing Centers, and and he's really known for like being an educator on chemsex and and really, really he's has made such an incredible impact in the queer community. Um but he's also an actor, and he was the director of Wrath Mercy, which is that movie I starred in a few years ago, and he um went to this this theater that I should be that I think should be way more blown up. I think everybody I mean they just created a brand new their own musical. It's I I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say. Um, yeah, you're right. Like bring musical theater back to Los Angeles. I want to audition for something, should I? I will.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it just feels so segregated out here.
SPEAKER_05You know, you're either the It's these little tiny theaters and like these actors that are that are just true artists. They're doing it for the love of it, but like, yeah, let's make it a little bit more mainstream and and accessible.
SPEAKER_01Now that I've been choreographing these shows, now I'm behind the desk and I'm holding these auditions, right? Now so now I'm I'm officially uh a a choreographer and that's what I do. And I just so proud I don't I don't just do musical theater, but I do live. So anything that makes sense because of my upbringing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so don't don't get a twist I said, I'll take that sag after like moving.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, absolutely. But are you dancing yourself still in production?
SPEAKER_01No, you're I will, I will if somebody somebody needs me, I will. I I I always say I'm retired from auditioning.
SPEAKER_05Um but yeah, so there's been a bitch you have no idea. I did one self tape and one self tape only, and I said, I think I'll make a podcast where I talk to my friends instead.
SPEAKER_01So, but yes, that's another um something I wanted to discuss. But going back, so now being behind the desk, now that I'm in this place, uh, when I have worked on network television shows, I have been able to be a uh part of the choreography team uh with these huge reality competition shows now. Um, like I I won't hire a dancer that does not have one musical theater credit. You will not. No, I won't. I won't. Well, I mean, if I have to, I have to. If they don't have to I the first thing I look for is if you have because it is it is a um it's all about teamwork, it's all about community, and um and uh and and it's it's you're gonna put your ego aside. We all have egos, they're gonna be well, they're gonna be there, but they're not as as narcissistic to me. Yeah, yeah. It's a sense of community, it's a sense. Of you know, together. Yeah, but absolutely going back to what I was saying earlier. One of the reasons why I wanted to leave New York City and why I wanted to stop auditioning uh for these Broadway shows is because I came from the same world where you leave your personal life at home and then you have your professional life at professional. So once the lines started being blurred by via social media, right, I my brain could not compute. Not that I had anything to hide, not that like my lifestyle was anything offensive or anything. No, but it was just like so. Once it became uh more about the social media aspect of these performers, one thing if you're a massive celebrity, your name's above the title, you're the one that's you know, that's that's that's different because you're always going to be in the in the media somehow. But when it came to being a part of an ensemble or part of the team, they would gravitate and also they'd be like, Well, you need to get more followers, and I'm like, What? I I just understood what Facebook was. Right, yeah, the follower thing. I just was like, I don't that doesn't I don't understand that. Which I I get it now, obviously, because it's a part of our culture, it's a part of our life. But I was like, I don't want to do that.
SPEAKER_03Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And now, like even going into the choreography world world and going it's like everybody goes and checks your socials first. Yeah, that's the first thing that's so it's like so you do want it to be authentic and you want to see this person and how they are, but then also you it's it's uh it's a double-edged sword, it's a smoking glass. It's smoking mirrors, it's like I know it's crazy.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I I've really tried to go on a on social media just you, I mean, you see myself. I'm just me. One day I'm in a good mood, so I'll do like a get ready with me or an unboxing or whatever. And the next mood I want to, you know, day, I'm in a really depressive state. And I share about that as well because there's somebody else out in the world that's feeling the same way that day, you know, and if they maybe they hear me, maybe it helps a little bit. But because I just don't really follow a pattern because I'm 44 and I don't want to, but I have to publicize this podcast to get it out there so everybody can hear your amazing stories. I'm I'm forced to do to just push content, push content, and I'm always gonna do it my own way. Like, you my own things I want to show you guys, and and I'm always real about it. And I'll tell you some of the feedback I've heard from people I know. Wow, pretty disgusting, I gotta say. Truly. Like, like everything from she looks ridiculous on social media right now, like, why is she trying to act like a 20-year-old baddie? Um, she looks insane.
SPEAKER_01Like a 21-year-old baddie.
SPEAKER_05Well, I mean sorry. I'm so sorry. I don't know. I can still. No, I'm just kidding. I'm actually not even doing that. I'm like, yeah, right, exactly. You know, and then and then the real haters, like the real the ones that really want to, these are the the worst, the block, block, block instantly. Um, this isn't like people I know, this is something totally different. But then you have fans go on and they'll just say like pretty wretched things, like junkie, like you're not even sober, like just the dumbest shit, you know, and you're like, okay, cool, yeah, you're right, whatever. I don't care. Think what you want. Like, who cares? You hit a certain age and we just can't care anymore.
SPEAKER_01And I so I'm so um somebody asked me something like, or like, oh, you only care what people think about you, or something like that. And I was like, Yeah, I do want to know what people think about me. I don't care what it is. Right. I don't give a fuck what it is.
SPEAKER_05But you want to know because you want to know if you should excuse them out of your life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I do. So I do want to know what people think about me. I just don't care.
SPEAKER_05Yes, I don't care. I only care for one reason because I want to know who I shouldn't be talking to anymore. That's it. And it's very interesting as you get older and older and older, God or the universe, whatever you believe in, will just just rem start removing those people in the oddest or easiest ways. And just one day you'll either be like, Oh, I haven't had to deal with toxicity from that person in a long time. That's or it'll be a very obvious, like, this person needs to be taken out of my life, you know. But I've been more and more appreciative of that the older I get, that's for sure. Absolutely, and I'm so fucking glad you're still here with me. Yeah, you stuck with me. We're still here, we're still here, babe. Okay, this is gonna lead me into my last question for you. You ready? Do you want to change your mind? And uh, I'll pack I'll pack it back, you know. Kidding, Rob. I I'm you guys, uh all of our audience, I'm so obsessed with his partner. I love Rob so much. He is best, he is always dancing, he is always joyful.
SPEAKER_02My social media, my social media too.
SPEAKER_05It's Rob. Yeah. I was gonna say, you met somebody with as much joy in their heart as you have. That's what I noticed about you guys is that yeah, you're both always just dancing through life and singing through life and laughing through life.
SPEAKER_01Did you even know you made a wicked reference? You just made a yeah, dancing through life. That's a song.
SPEAKER_05Whatever. Dancing through life. Anyways, oh when she goes the ta-ta-ta-ta. Was that with the book? Yeah, okay, got it. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Dancing through life, singing through life, laughing through life, loving through life. You really, you know, get I see the way you get to experience life together um in love and travel the country and then also come home and get to choreograph all the time. No, that's what I meant. The world. Why did I say the country? Who gives it like you're like, you're like, I'm not going to Iowa. We love Iowa. But yeah, no, you're in you're in Paris and Italy and Spain, just all these crazy places, and and it's just a perfect, it's a perfect, it's a perfect like outcome for you, truly.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_05You know, to have met a partner with as much joy in their heart as you have, and uh and and values and sees your worth in the way that we all deserve to be loved. We all deserve. It took me a little bit longer. I had to get married first, real quick. That was weird. Oh, by the way, Eric was at my wedding. Uh you all, yes, you should have objected. What were you doing?
SPEAKER_01Um texting. I was so happy to be there. I couldn't make I couldn't believe I made the list. It was so great.
SPEAKER_05What? You couldn't believe you made the list? What are you nuts? You know what's funny, you don't need to necessarily say what happened. I think it's pretty gonna be pretty obvious. If my friends are very upset and heartbroken for me over a blind side, we can just leave the rest to your imagination. But you know, um that I'll tell you, like when you go through something like that to see, you know, your when your people that you've known your whole life go through pain like that for you, that's when you know you have family, you know? And I knew that with you. And um that was a crazy situation, but listen, we we're okay. We're fine. You know, like while you were making out with me drunk at 17, you were probably watching my boyfriend on TV, being like, now he's hot. So we're fine. We ended up fine after the divorce. We did just fine. But here's my last question that I ask everybody. That's about as petty as I've gotten so far in this podcast, I will say. But um, there might be more to come. Who knows? Um, I like to keep everybody on their toes. So, when you hear the phrase, we're still here, babe, what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. Oh, it means so much. It's like it's the perfect line for you. Um well, I think about you. I think about your journey, and that like how many times that you probably could not have been here. You like I I I think of you, if I'm being completely honest. Um I think of you and your journey, and the um you're you're you're you're fucking here, babe, and you're alive. And you're alive, and I'm so grateful to have that. So I have you in my life, and then also I think about us.
SPEAKER_03Us.
SPEAKER_01We're still still here. We're still making each other laugh. We're still have our inside jokes. We, y'all, we talked on the phone for over two hours the other day. Two hours. Just one of those perfect moments where we both had the time to really just reconnect and share.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then we didn't even talk about any of the stuff that we talked about on this podcast.
SPEAKER_05No, no, we didn't. And you know what, Eric, you're and of course you are, you're the first person to get it with the we're still here, babe, because so much of why I created the title was because I knew everybody I was gonna bring on the show for the most part. Obviously, there's people I don't know as well, but it was also gonna be a weird, like an hour story too. You know, like me and Marla, we're still here, like the for our friends, we're still here, you know. Um so thank you for saying that. That that really, really means so much. Um, I I actually do have one last question because I just this is a I just think it's something important for the audience to hear. Did and I've not I don't know if I've ever asked you this. Did you know, um, because I tried so hard to protect it from certain people, and you would have been at the very top of that list with people like Marla, Jenna, you know. Um, did you know like what did you know how bad it was what was going on with me? Like, did did you know I was on heroin? Like what what did you think? Or what did pee what where did anyone think I was?
SPEAKER_01Or what I was I disappeared, I wouldn't have let anyone found me, but you know, that's um I I think the answer is nobody would understand how deep down you were. Okay. But I do but I I I knew that it was that deep. I didn't know it was that deep. You know, I didn't know that you're that far along. I mean, you don't remember this. You called me when I was in New York asking for money. And I was like, that's and I and I said no. I I said no, I don't do that. I care about you too much. I don't do that to to people I care about. Uh and uh and I was like, that's and I remember shouldn't be like that's absurd because we we partied.
unknownI know.
SPEAKER_01I you guys I partied. Yeah, we partied, but we were kids, like Yeah, and and you know, like I probably partied a little too much longer than I should have. But right, but it never I never crossed the line into addiction.
SPEAKER_03Correct.
SPEAKER_01And and so I that time I was like, oh, this is an addict. This is an addict, and um so I I don't I didn't know about all the you know the really really really crazy crazy things um that that you've shared with me, and I'd probably share you'd probably share with those people.
SPEAKER_05I I mean, no.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05Never mind. Just some of the like really, really close friends. But yeah, no, I mean it's a public story that I lived on Skid Row, and it's a public story that I mean it was interesting. Right before this podcast came out, I was like, look, it you know, it's gonna garner attention, uh not because of me, because of the people that are coming on, you know, and I might as well just fucking get it all out there now. And it started with why I decided to do this podcast on July 8th, and it's because I decided to change my sobriety time during COVID because of kidney surgeries and all of that. And that's why I, yes, that's why I made that decision to do that. And then just kind of organically, I started getting asked to be on all these podcasts where I mean, if I'm being honest, they were going for the good stuff, you know? They wanted the good stuff. And um, this guy, Dave Manheim, who I love and I'm obsessed with, and he has a podcast called Dopey, and it's like one of the top recovery podcasts. And I had been warned, like, look, he's a great guy, but he'll get it all out of you. And I was like, Me? No, no fucking way. I've held on to some stories for like 25 years. So he came to my house actually to film the podcast because he was in town for an event, and yeah, he got it all. He got um, and I can say it because it's out, you know. But you know, he got my Brad Renfro story, and um, I know everybody had heard about that too, and that was in, you know, just the worst time of my life, truly. And um, you know, so that came out, and then a couple other podcasts came out about like my last audition where it was all over, which was eight miles, and then like, you know, just stuff like that, like, you know, child from child star to skid row. You know how they like to do the, you know, I'll I'll never do that once on this podcast. P.S. Like, I'll never put a block that says, like, you know, last girlfriend heartbroken over boy band member being like, why are we doing that?
SPEAKER_01Why not?
SPEAKER_05Because I because you guys are my friends.
SPEAKER_00I mean I would be I would be okay with that one.
SPEAKER_05I know you would be. Like, well, I'll f I'll do something funny, you know, like last girlfriend, or you know, but nothing salacious.
SPEAKER_00Don't you have that picture? Isn't there like a picture of us that yes, the Titanic of it all?
SPEAKER_05I have I have so many you don't know what happened. Like, watch an episode. Why don't you watch an episode and you'll see how there's clips all through? So there's gonna be a lot of pictures, my friend. Don't you worry. I gotta look through my box and if you send please anything you have, send me.
SPEAKER_01We have to say pictures though, because you'd get I know because I would make you a coffee.
SPEAKER_05All right, babe. Well, I love you so so much. Tell us where we can find you. Anything coming up, projects, anything that we can put out there in the universe for you.
SPEAKER_01Um, as of right now, uh I just came off of choreographing um this huge uh Broadway show called Matilda in Connecticut. So it's closing this weekend. So if you're in Connecticut, you gotta go check and see that. Uh in New Canaan, Connecticut. It's amazing. Very, very proud of it. It is not a kid's show, it is a huge, huge juggernaut of a show.
SPEAKER_00Uh huh.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna be choreographing something rotten uh in Nashville, Tennessee next season. Uh but if you're in Los Angeles and you used to dance or you used to sing or you used to do musical theater and you're a little bit older, come take my class. Like a little bit older, like my RH. No, but I have two classes. I have a beginner class that's like people that just want to move their bodies.
SPEAKER_05Um, that's you, Natanya. That's the class you go to.
SPEAKER_01We're on heels, like, you know, really going forward.
SPEAKER_05I'll stay. I'll I'll stay away. Yeah, I'll stay away from that one. Amazing. And then on on socials, socials I'm at I'm at Stretchy Man. I tried Stretchyman, my favorite the best social media handle of all time. And we can't tell you why. Don't say it. Don't do it.
SPEAKER_00What?
SPEAKER_05Eric Stretchman, don't do it. Let's end there. We're gonna end there. I love you so fucking much.
SPEAKER_00I love you so fucking much.