Ep. 8 - Jenna Leigh Green

This week on We’re Still Here, Babe, Natanya Ross sits down with the incredibly talented and genuinely kind Jenna Leigh Green. Best known for playing Libby on Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Jenna has also built an impressive career in the theatre, including playing Nessarose in Wicked and understudying Elphaba. In this episode, there are plenty of 90s memories, theatre stories, career highs and realities, and, of course, a few fun connections along the way — including Jenna’s longtime friendship with Natanya’s boyfriend, Nate. Warm, funny, and refreshingly honest, Jenna gives us a glimpse into the woman behind the roles and the realities of building a life in this industry. 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today's guest is the incredibly talented Jenna Lee Green, an actress and singer whose career has spanned television, Broadway, and some of the most iconic musical theater productions of the last two decades. You guys heard that for those in the back, decades. From Wicked and Bear to years and years of live performances on stage. She's someone who has continually reinvented herself as an artist while staying deeply, deeply connected to who she is at her core. So today, everybody, please help me welcome to We're Still Here, babe, Jenna Lee Green. Hi. Hi. We are still here. We're still fucking here, man. Look at us. We're still here. We're doing it. It's awkward to some people, but you know. Some might not even know. I did it. I was one of the interviews we did yesterday, one of our guests said, um, when I hear like just the title of your podcast, I often wonder if people even know some of us are still alive. I was like, yeah, it's like a great point. I've I've looked on Google many times and seen that I was dead.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

So, you know, I mean, I have never heard that I'm dead, but I cannot tell you the amount of messages I get from people being like, are you still acting? That's that's the big one. That's yes. Well, that no, what were you gonna say? No, just it's just a funny, a funny sort of thing because it's weird because it comes from people who search you out. So meaning, you know, in some way, shape, or form you feel like they are a fan of yours, yeah, yet not enough to realize that just because you're not currently, you know, series regular on a television show, you are still like you still have had a career that has been, you know, ebbs and flows, but still going all this time. It's just not necessarily as high profile.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

A hundred percent. Yeah, I relate to that a lot. And you know, my story is I actually took a good chunk of time off because I had to find myself through the process of recovery and stuff, you know. So um it's you know, when I when I see people like you and just all of these um people that I looked up to so much in the night that have been continuously working, nobody stopped working, everybody's been doing something, but because, like you said, it's not this big mainstream maybe like vibe to it, people just think we're lost in the ether somewhere. We're not. Here we are. So I wanted to create a little platform just honestly for some of my friends to come on and just tell us like little bits more about who they are as humans for all of the incredible fans that have been just riding so hard for us for decades and decades now to like, you know, look, I think if someone saw, oh my god, Jenna's gonna be on We're Still Here, babe, this week, uh, she's definitely gonna ask about Sabrina and this and that. And yeah, I mean, I have to ask a little bit about that, but to be perfectly honest, it's the least interested thing I am in about you, Sabrina, or anything else. I want to know who Jenna is as a person. I want to know, um, God, especially as like a Broadway actor, uh, musical theater, I uh all of that, the mental health struggles and challenges that come along with being that high level of a performer, it's a different thing. I've I I texted you it's been a Jenna Green morning in this household. I've just been jamming to show tunes, not my usual vibe in the morning when I'm making matcha, but I just loved it. And and but here's what's so different about your quality of voice. I'm sure you've heard it before, maybe not, but you know, as a as a theater performer, you have to be an actor and a singer at the same time. That's fucking hard to do. You are not just singing your words, you're acting, your vocal tone. It's crazy. I don't know how it's done, truly. I did two pro I did two performances on Broadway and quite a few off Broadway, but I was like seven, you know, so I was awesome. But so I was watching your videos all morning, all week, like last few days, really, and just the ability you have to um portray a story and a character through singing is wild to me. Like I I think I I could do it with like words, but fuck, and you're singing that. So I want to hear a little bit about that because a lot of the stuff that I researched too, I noticed a trend in a lot of your interviews where you always said, I always knew I would be led back to theater. In almost every single interview I've read, and I've really lots in the last few days. And almost every one, you yeah, there was like a little line, something in there that said, like, yeah, I always knew I'd end up back in theater, which really tells me you have a performer's heart. So I want to hear more about that and the mental health struggles that may or may not have come along with.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Yeah. Um, you know, listen, I I do consider myself um very fortunate. You know, I grew up in LA. I grew up in the in the suburbs of LA, I should say. Okay. Um but uh I do think that it was an easier transition from kid, teenage, young teenage girl who loved musical theater into actually um getting to be an actor as a job for a living. Because I lived in a place that it was already so so easily accessible, you know, if you had the talent, if you had the desire, if you had the drive, if you had the tools, if you had all these things, which you know, I think the lifers and the people who like truly are successful in this industry do have.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Um I also was lucky enough geographically to to have those resources readily available. Right. I, if I'm being honest, I was a as a performer for the people who are true like performers, I know what you're gonna say, boomer. Like I was never in Annie. I was never in the sound of music. Like I wasn't when I was when I was that young, I had no clue. I was not a seven-year-old performer, a 10-year-old performer. I was probably about, I would say I was probably about 12. Really? And the first performance I ever did was at church. And that's when you heard that you had the voice, basically. My I think honestly, I swear. It sounds hilarious. I feel like I've blocked out so much of my childhood, not because of trauma, just because everybody says that's weird. My memory doesn't. Um, I'm a twin. I have a twin sister. Oh, go into like, oh, do you remember, you know, when we were seven and we did it? I'm like, nope. I I have like these these generalized generalized am I speaking English? I generalized uh memories of of my childhood, but like specific instances, I really don't my brain like blackouts, little almost. Yeah, it's really weird. And you know, so I I've had so many friends be like, you know, oh, you're probably dealing with trauma, and I'm like, no, I actually had a really great childhood. I, you know, I was a child of divorce, but it was so natural to me. My my parents divorced when my sister and I were two years old, they both very quickly remarried. Um we have we have an amazing sister that that came uh came to be a little bit later, and and um I I really don't feel like I had these traumatic childhood experiences that would cause me to like not, but I just didn't. I don't remember when I first started, but I think it was slow. I would like, you know, I I loved singing, I loved, I always loved music, but you know, the church I was raised in, um, my mom loved my mom loved theater in high school, and you know, the performing bug is definitely in our family.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

I was gonna say, did I read that it's a huge performing family?

SPEAKER_02 7:57

It is, but like not necessarily professionally, it's just an artistically inclined family. My my grandfather, my my mother's father, wanted to be a professional actor, and he really did try to pursue it to until the day he died, he was a card-carrying member of the Screen Actors Guild. Wow. I believe his claim to fame was a show called Trapper John MD, which I think he just did one episode of. I don't really know the show, but I know the name.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

I didn't do one episode of it, so you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

And he was the most handsome. Oh my god. His name was Wally Shannon. His name was Walter Shannon Ruddick. But Wally Shannon was his stage name, and uh he was in acting class. I I think Leonard Nimoy was either the the teacher or was in it, and Cher was in his acting class. Stop! I'm I shit you not. This is a real story that he told. Cher came running into class one day and said, You guys, you guys, my boyfriend and I made an album, and everyone in class said, Cher, you're an actress, you're not a singer. Oh my god. So it was just like, so my mom, in turn, and my uncle, one of my uncles, they were very into theater growing up and stuff like that. But you know, my grandfather had five children, very young. They were married at I think 18 and 19 years old and immediately had children. So I think that at a certain point he realized I have children, I have to provide for the family. So he he stopped pursuing pretty young, he stopped pursuing acting, but he paid his dues and he kept his card and was an absolute proud member of the Screen Actors Guild his entire life. So it definitely was and then my father uh was in a band in college called the Academics, and they were actually on American Bandstand, Connecticut version. Like I think there were different regions of American bandstand, but he was like Connecticut aired uh of American Bandstand with his band, The Academics. They had a record. So yes, it's like it's and again, didn't pursue it. This was a you know college fun thing that he did with friends. He had a great singing voice, he loved to sing. So it definitely was in there, but it wasn't like this child diving in and being like, I want to sing, I want to dance. But our church was very music heavy, and my mom was best friends with the choir director, and they wanted to do this like, you know, Christmas pageant production, whatever. And so, you know, my mom was gonna be the director, and her best friend Carol was the music director, and all the kids, you know, we all came in and sang a little something to audition, and I ended up getting the lead. And and Carol said to my mom, you know, Jenny, Jenny's got a really good voice. She can my mom said, She does. I don't know, she sings around the house all the time. But I was about 12.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

And I did that, and then very shortly after that, someone sent my mom an article that was in the local Simi Valley newspaper saying that there was this um camp, summer camp for for um kid teens who were interested in theater. And my mom asked my sister and I if we were interested, and we said yes, and that was the end.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

I was just gonna ask your sister, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

My sister, yeah, and my sister did um this, she loved theater in high school and stuff like that too. Again, didn't pursue.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

But um uh for me, it was just like I was hooked. I had blinders on, I wanted to do everything and anything, even if it was like working stage crew. Wow, and that's how you know I just wanted to be involved, I wanted to like eat it all up and absorb every ounce of it, and I loved it. And then my grandfather um uh paid for me to have singing lessons, which was really, really we did not have any extra money. We had nothing to to pay for those types of things. But my grandfather um saw something in me and paid for me to have voice lessons, and I was just hooked, and then in high school, I was doing you know, all the stuff in high school, the summer programs, also the local community theaters, because in Southern California. That was CME, that's in CME, but it it's also close to each other. Southern California has a ton of great Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

No, we actually filmed um we filmed very close to CME. We filmed at Castella Kai. Oh, okay. Yeah, so I and I I love that area, it's amazing. Thousand Oaks, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Uh Camarillo, uh, like all of all of those areas. They have some really great theaters. So I was doing anything I could, and then I was doing a production of Into the Woods playing Little Red, and there was a manager in the audience, and she came up and talked to me afterwards, and my I think one of my parents happened to be there that night and said, you know, I think she really has something. Are you guys interested in like pursuing this professionally? And that's when I started at these.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

And I read Sabrina came like almost right after, like pretty soon, right? Or also, like, just for the audience, I'm also an actor, everybody. I'm not an idiot. I'm talking like I everything you read online is true. And Jenna, I read that. Okay, I guys, I know because there's a lot of false narrative about me online and stuff. So I don't mean to just assume everything I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

And in person, it's not as if I Google myself all the time, but definitely is some weird stuff out there that actually is not true.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Same. I'm part of like a uh a Christian camp family, something. I'm like, you guys, my name's Natanya Ross. Okay, it doesn't get more Jewish than that. It's a very Jewish name. I I'm whatever. So there's obviously a lot of false um info online. And also I want to just say too, um, and it's it's kind of why I asked the first question. I think that there's an assumption that everybody from the 90s, like the act we all knew each other and we were all friends, and I know everything about you and so on and so forth. So just for the listeners, obviously, most of you guys know my boyfriend is Nate. Nate and Jenna have been best friends since they were god, just precious young teenagers, just beautiful babies on television in front of all of our eyes to admire and all of that growing up in the 90s. But you and I just recently met. I'd say what, like a year ago-ish?

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Yeah, maybe not even.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

And I But we knew of each other. I've known of Nate since you and Nate started dating and they've been like back and forth in person. I don't think until the Christmas time last year.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

I agree. Well, I I told Nate when we first started dating. Also, I didn't know Nate back then either. I think everyone just assumes we all knew each other, but I'm a couple of years younger than Nate. Uh-huh. And uh, so I was like, you know, inevitably in a different social circle. So like I remember some of me and my friends, and like we were all kind of, we were all famous young kids too, just a bit younger, and we were like, oh, is like googly-eyed over all you guys. And um, but I think the assumption is that we've all been best friends since the 90s. And you know, Jenna, I I met through Nate because of Sabrina the Teenage Witch, which we'll talk about as well. Um, but I think, and and it's interesting, um, Ryder Strong, we had him yesterday, and I asked this question to everyone. He's like, that's such a crazy question because it must have been on boy, but I have no fuck I can't remember specifically like meeting, you know. Um I've just known of you. I've just always known of you. And Ditto kind of saying, like, I very much knew who you were in the 90s. Um, you were like the the very you were the cool girl off screen too. All of us, like, yeah, we were all like, oh my gosh, I don't really read so you were that, but you were, I want to make it very clear that you're very nice. You were at no point ever a bitch to me or like mean. In fact, Nate probably was like a little bitchier even to me. And I think it's just because he was trying so hard to be like a good man, you know? And and he was such a good man in the 90s. I was underage. Let's just call it what it was. And most of my hookups, boyfriend, whatever, like most guys in the 90s didn't really care if you were under the age of 18. They didn't understand how important it might it might be to a young woman's life and trajectory of her life throughout her relationships to respect that she's underage and maybe more appropriate for her to be dating somebody of her own age. And you know, and Nate was that guy. He uh stayed very far away from me. And she was like, Yeah, I saw you, but you were fucking 14 years old, and I was 19. Well, what do you what'd you think was gonna happen? Yeah. You know, and I was like, I don't know, same thing with all my other boyfriends. So um, so yeah, I mean, you were always so you guys all, but like I do remember, I remember you a lot from the parties in the 90s, and you were always really kind, um, but cool, very cool.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

I think I think it was a weird, it was a very weird thing for me playing a character like Libby because I mean she was so much fun, but she was very, very different from who I was. Right. Um, which is is part of the the awesomeness of getting it's part of the fun, is that I got to play this girl who like said and did things that were like so mean and so you know, and and um and then we were done for the day and we would like be like, where do you guys want to go for dinner? You know, right but people who who didn't know me always expected me to be that girl, always expected that I was just a really bitchy girl that I was like you know, I I can't tell all the comments about like well she had you know she's she kind of has resting bitch face, so she probably is and uh you know, like and that I have such dark hair and you know, pale skin, dark hair. So it's kind of this look about me that people just still to this day, kind of people still assume I'm just kind of like a mean girl and I'm you know You're so far from the difference. Now is that I don't care as much as I did back then about needing to prove them wrong. Like if you know me, you know me. And that's like you get my deal, you know who I am. I don't care as much about what other people think. We all we're always lifelong gonna struggle with that, whether you admit it or not. We we do struggle with perception and you know what people think of us, but I uh I really have learned to let go of a lot of the anxiety that comes along with that that I did carry with me when I was younger because it was my first real exposure to any sort of popularity or notoriety. I don't I would not have considered myself to be like one of the popular girls in my middle school and high school. And I just floated in the middle, you know what I mean? I did these things, and you know, as I started acting professionally, I think that started to become a weird dynamic with with other kids in school. But you know, I got this message once through social media, I can't remember which platform, but it was someone, it was a guy that I think was maybe a year or two older than me in in high school, but he'd reached out and he said, you know, you won't remember me, but we went to high school together, and you know, I've been watching your career, and I he's like, it's really cool to be like, I knew her when he's like, but like he's like, I always knew. He's like, you know, when you sang at a pep rally or you know, you were in this whatever it may be. He's like, he's like, we just everybody just knew, you know? And it was just like, you know, 30 years later to get this message from this person. It was very sweet.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

Very yeah, it's gosh, stuff like that means it means so much. I mean, listen, uh, that's kind of leads me into my next question, which is what I want to talk about. So, how how old were you, if you don't mind me asking, when you started on Sabrina? Like 20? So through puberty, but still in this very tender age as a woman where we're like, you know, I don't know about you, but me, I'm like examining every little piece of everything on me, and I'm so insecure about so much, but also so confident about so much, and like I'm pretty sure of who I am, but also I have no fucking clue who I am, and all of that stuff at 20, 19, 20, and then to do it all on television on what was about to become one of the biggest shows of the entire decade.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

To so just talk me through that a little bit if you can, if you know, going back to what you had said before that Sabrina had come pretty quickly after I started, you know, yeah professionally it did. It didn't come immediately. Um, I I feel like I've shared this story with you before, but it's a funny story for for people who don't know.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Um, you know, I my first I the first thing I think I I think I did a couple commercials and then I did a couple TV movies. Do you remember back in the day, NBC? MOW MOW The Movie of the Week. So I was kind of the queen of doing a bunch of those in like real secondary roles. I did this big, this big one that that literally is cult classic to this day. Wait, what's in it? Well, it had it had two names. I can't remember why they changed the name, but I think when when we shot it, it was called A Friend to Die For. But then the Death of a Cheerleader.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

No, yeah, Death of the Cheerleader. And it was Spelling Mark and Tory Spelling. Of course, it was the most iconic movie of the week uh in of the 90s decade. It was a shocking movie of the week. I know exactly what you're talking about. How did I how did I how did this not compute as I'm studying what?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

So that was actually my first professional mean girl role because she these girls were mean. We were so they all had names. So it was, you know, Tori, Tori Spelling was like the leader of this group. And then there were three of us, and they specifically cast I don't remember, they specifically cast us based on our looks. So my character's name was Meredith Ladd, but she was called in the script in everything, she was called Raven.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Oh, I mean, as one would be called, of course.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

So they it was like they very much wanted. A blonde and a brunette. Wow. I feel like there might have been a redhead, but I'm not sure. But that they we were very, it was like very, very specific in the casting what they wanted for us to be, and we were just not nice girls.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Wow. So it was you, Tory spelling, and oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

This movie was was me. Uh I mean, literally, I was a secondary character in this. Let's be real here. It was a supporting wall.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Secondary girl for my whole career.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Tori Spelling, Kelly Martin. Um Marley Shelton was in it. That's right. Catherine Morris.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

And she kills Tori Spelling, Kelly Martin. Yeah, because of the Valerie Harper Play's mom.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

This is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

So so I did that, and then I did another. Uh I did I did a couple of these MOWs and then I did one episode of Save by the Bell, the New Class. Not Save by the Bell, not Save by the Bell, the college years, but Save by the Bell, the New Class. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

I had tested for.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Okay, as a series for a series regular. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

I tested for a series regular on that, and I didn't get it. And then they ended up bringing me in just for one episode. But I booked my big break. I booked the lead, the the title character in a Nickelodeon TV show. And I was so I was like the the happiest person that had ever existed. I didn't even understand what was happening because again, it I was so new. Yeah. And I, you know, I this was I I swear, I think this was my first plane ride because it was shot at Universal in Florida.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Oh, okay. Thank God. Oh my god, don't say Alex Mac. I immediately knew we were off the table. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Oh God, I thought I'd told you this story. No, no. So so I I flew. I also I used to book things in like threes. So it was a crazy story. I I booked this show and then I booked a commercial for Butterfinger. And we worked it out. So I shot all day on on set in LA for this Butterfinger commercial and then got on a red-eye flight to Florida. This is I'm a teenager. Amazing. Okay. Got on a red-eye flight to Florida to start work the next day because they had wanted me out there earlier, but I couldn't because I had this other job. So and I was so excited, and we shot this pilot, and then I came to New York with a couple of the cast members, and we did like some press for it and like all this amazing stuff. And I was so excited. I was the series lead of a new television show, and then I got the phone call.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

You got replaced.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

That I was being replaced. So I definitely got hit with the rejection side of this business really fast. Really, really quick. Now listen. The show was The Mystery Files of Shelby Woop.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

The original title of the show was The Mystery Files of Shelby Wink.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

There was, you know, I could take to heart that it wasn't just like they don't like her. They decided to go a whole different direction with what they wanted for the show. And the show was so great. I I absolutely and there were Adam Bush who did the pilot with me. You know, he was he was there the whole time. And and you know, it was such a wonderful, wonderful show. Just they did something completely different. That I I there was no way for me to be a part of that world.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

But I was absolutely devastated. Like I had planned my whole life based on the fact that I was gonna start work on this show, and and then the show was gone. Yeah. Um, and then I was like, okay, I don't know, I don't know what to do now, but I I I just started this, so I have to like keep going and keep finding something else and something else. So then I got an audition for the television uh uh version of Clueless.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

And Ellie Canner was casting and I was auditioning for Ty. Huh? Oh, you were auditioning for Ty? Wow, okay. Auditioning for Ty and had, you know, this is back in the day, you remember this. It wasn't like it is now. Like I I swear to God, I went on like I I think I must have auditioned seven times. It's not like you're making tape and you're throwing it into the nether and they're like, oh hey, you booked that thing you taped for you a month ago. What? Yeah, what did I tap for? No, it was like twice a week. I was going back, driving back into the city, my mom usually driving me back into the city. Always like Culver City or something. Always. Oh yeah. So I was back and back and back and back for Ty, tested, didn't get it. So sad. That part actually ended up. I don't think they, I think they ended up not making that role a series regular. I think she ended up just being but again, so sad because it was like the almost and wonderful, wonderful, wonderful Ellie Canner a little a couple months later, remembered me and brought me in for Sabrina. And so that's how it's like, and if I had if I had done Shelby, if I had done Shelby Wink, I would not have been available to do Sabrina.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

So I I do think that we wouldn't have had our Libby.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Wow. I do think about that universe. You know, even though sometimes I'm like, oh yeah, the universe does know better sometimes. It does.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you a really quick story too. This one's just as much of a heartbreaker, but it's got like an extra good little twist in the stomach. So I was it was right before our last season of Alex Mac. We did double episodes per se. So we really did like eight seasons, but we just crammed them all in so much, you know. And we stopped at four seasons. Um, just in case anybody doesn't know, it wasn't because we got canceled, Larissa decided to go to college. So, you know, I mean you can't do the show without Larissa. So, you know, so we're we're not doing the show anymore. So, but anyway, so it's right before the fourth season, pilot season, all the things I'm auditioning. I book a huge pilot, like huge, huge ABC pilot. So um, I go and I shoot the pilot, and it was gonna take me off of the last season of Alex Mac. But it was starring Tim Curry. And it was just kind of like at that time, my team was like, you know, this is the last season of yes, your show that you were helped blah blah but all the things, but this could be the chance to get you on another one for the next five years. So um I shot the pilot. It was not conflicting with any Alex Mack shooting schedules. Um, and then there's that week, you know, the week when everyone's waiting to see if their pilot got picked up, right? And I'm in high school at this time at Excelsior High, which was this like weird little actor school in the 90s in Hollywood, like literally on Hollywood Boulevard. Um, and I went there like with my best friend Marla Sokolov, who I'm sure you know, you know, and so all the things. So everybody's getting calls. Like all the kids in the school, there's like 30 of us, they're all like one by one getting called.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Getting calls if they're pilots or other people.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Like, like so and so, you know, Shane West comes to the principal's office and it's like, hey, it's going. And Shane comes back and he's like, Woo! And everyone's like, Great, you know, so like one by one I'm watching it go. And I'm like, fuck, this is not good, you know. And how weird, also at 16 years old, to just know the industry that well, to know like something's not something's not right, something's 50 here. So I finally get the call to get up to go to the principal's office, which is where you would take two phone calls from your agents and managers. It's crazy, I know. And um, and it was um, it was my publicist. She was like, Congratulations, we just saw um it got picked up, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. I was like, wait, when my agent was Wendy Green over at Abrams, and Beverly Strong was my, I'm like, I haven't heard from Bev or Wendy, what? And then the principal called me over and he was like, Hey, your mom's here to pick you up. You can go, it's okay. I'm like, huh? What are you talking about? Like we still have two more hours of school. They're like, it's okay, it's okay, sweetie. We'll see you tomorrow. You can go home early. And I was like, oh man. So I got in the car and I was 15 years old. And yeah, she's like, I'm so sorry. But um, yeah, they just called and you got replaced. And I instantly said, get me back on the last season of Alex Mac. It was like my first thought. I'm like, has anybody called Tommy yet? That was our creator. And um, my mom was like, uh, we just found out. I was like, get on the phone with the man who controls Alex Mac. Give me that gun. And they were like, Thank God. Yes, please, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then they and then I had to like finally sign contracts. It's the only season I ever had to sign contracts on Alex Mack. But here's the crazy part about this whole story. So, one, if I hadn't gotten replaced off that show, I would have never finished out, you know, my 90s legacy, really. But I ended up getting replaced by Marla. Yeah. You guys were already friends at this point. Best friends. Like beyond, we had done two movies together already.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Had she not even told you that she'd been auditioning for it? I mean, I'm sure it was an awkward thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Like, how her mother called my mother to tell us that she got it. We laugh about it now, but you know, but and then we had to go to high school together for the next two years. We got over it within like weeks, you know. It's like, what can you do? This is what the industry is, it's not her fault, it's not my fault. And it sorry, this thing's driving me nuts. And it ended up being the best thing that could have ever happened. Looking back, I would have been devastated to not be on the final season. But um, that yeah, that was really, really, really tough. So I'm I understand that.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Well, and listen, the stories that we all have. Um, to this day, a girl that I have been such, such, such good friends with um is an actress named Nicole Bilderbach, who everybody knows. I mean, Whitney and bring it on, and she was in heavy weight, and she was I mean, she was in everything.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

So Nikki and I met auditioning against each other for Libby Chessler and Sabrina the Teenage Witch. No way. We um met, you know, again, referring to what I was talking about before, you know, this is back today when you were two or three times a week, you're going back and I must have auditioned for Sabrina eight times because I my initial audition was for Jenny, the best friend. And when I was in the office for the first time with Ellie and I read the sides, um Ellie Canner said, you know, you know I love you, Jenna. Like, I want to find something for you. I she's like, We're gonna call you back. She said, But we have this other role, and I'm actually not reading anyone for it yet, but I think you might be great for it. And so she went into the other room and she pulled out some sides, which the character's name originally was Lisa, not Libby. See, these are the memories I have so vividly. Okay. The character's name was Lisa, and she brought me these sides and she said, Would you mind? Like, she's like, Take as much time as you want. Obviously, I'm, you know, I've got a waiting room full of people. She's like, whenever you're ready, will you come back and read these? And I was like, I I was so young and eager. Like, I just wanted a job. What you tell me what to do, tell me to jump, I'll say how hi. So I was like, sure, okay. So I went out and I looked in and I just knew I really liked it. So then I came back in, I don't know, 15 minutes later and read Lisa, who would become Libby. And Ellie was like, uh-huh. And she's like, okay, she's like, we're gonna bring you back. She's like, I want them to see you do both roles, but wow. So I came back and my first or second callback, I still was reading both roles the best friend and the nemesis. Wow. And they switched it to just Libby, it had been changed to Libby by this point. And um, probably midway through the audition process, I started because you start to see the same girls. Yeah, started to see Nicole, and you know, girls were friendly back then. Like it wasn't the same as audition rooms once we got into the you know, mid the aughts and the no. Things started to change, but we were all just kids, and everybody was I found everyone was friends, yeah. And um, she and I kept seeing each other and we would laugh, be like, hey, back again. That was me and Marla. That was like back when back when it was, you know, you would go to studio, then you know, you would go to execs, then you would go to studio, then you would go to network, and it was like a two two-day process. We just really bonded, and I remember it like we kept seeing it get cut, especially that last day. It was like a six-hour day. And we kept watching it get narrowed down and narrowed down and narrowed because you'd go back, you'd come back an hour later, and like one of the girls would- Oh, I know and then at the very end, it was just Nikki and I, and we walked with each other out. They released us both at the same time, and we both left, and we were walking to the parking lot at ABC, I guess. And we both gave each other a really big hug and said, I adore you. I will be so happy for you if you get this part. And we meant it, and then we moved in next door to each other. Partly next door to each other, so we could go out on our little balconies and like have moving coffee and be like, Hi. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

That's the thing. I'm so glad you said that. Like for me as well, in the 90s, like in the social circles of young Hollywood, I was never bullied. I was always only ever accepted and loved. It felt like in what I supposed would be like a typically normal childhood scenario, I didn't seem to fit in. I seemed to be too misunderstood by the other kids who didn't really understand all, you know, that was that was going on with me. So for me, getting on TV at such a young age was such an incredible outlet, you know, and also finally provided me a space where I was able to kind of create a social situation for myself that felt a little bit more like a normal sense of family than what I was dealing with at home. So I wonder for you, um, you know, because I know you went on to do such long-running things as well, you know, just in a little bit of a different format. So you've had the opportunity in your career to create quite a few different families, which is so cool. And they're all like still going strong, you know, for the for the most part. And um I I want to talk about Bear.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Because um, again, read so many different articles and interviews that you did about it, and um seemingly like uh aside from Libby, of course, you know, what an iconic, perfect little piece of pop culture history, but this show seems to have really changed who you are and your aspect or your um just the the way you you thought about art a little bit from from what I was getting out of the interviews.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Unless I'm funny, I would now now you've made me so curious to like kind of try and dig up interviews. I'm gonna send them all to you and and and I'm I'm very curious if if my feelings on are the same. A lot of these things are the same now, looking back as they were in the moment. I don't know. Um, well, you know, like you mentioned earlier, um me commenting a lot about I always knew I'd be drawn back to theater. I I would never have considered myself an academic. Like I did, I did okay in high school, but I was so laser focused. I knew what I wanted to do. So when when you think about like, oh, where is everybody gonna go to college? Right, I never really knew, but I I I knew that like, oh, I'm like, well, I I gotta go to like a theater school. I gotta go to a, you know, and so my brain was very fixated on like, well, you go to like one of the big, you know, schools for musical theater, and then you go to New York because I love theater. Um, and my life just literally took a different path when I I like to say that I kind of fell into television. Because it wasn't like my game plan, like I want to be, yeah, I want to be a movie star or a TV actor. Yeah. But my path was going to be, you know, New York and Broadway. Um, which is funny because now at the place I'm at in my life, I always joke that I'm like kind of a fake Broadway person. I'm like, because my career has has truly been much more, you know, television film than it has been theater. But I, you know, the the team behind Sabrina was really supportive of me because they knew right away, like, you know, we're we're halfway through filming the first season of Sabrina, and I think that they knew that I really missed theater so much. They're like so supportive of that. And so I um, you know, a lot of actors in their hiatus from the TV show that they're on, they're like, oh, can I get a movie in? Can I get, you know, da-da-da-da, or I just want to like do nothing. I would do in in the in between seasons of Sabrina, I would do a big show. So we wrapped the first season of Sabrina, and before we were, I think before we were done filming the first season, I had already um been signed to play Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz at Music Theater Southern California. And everybody from Sabrina came. Are you serious? Yeah, did they date everybody came? I think I'll I mean I can't remember specifically, but I know that there was a whole group of people from Sabrina, including like writers and producers and stuff like that. So nice. And then in between uh second season and third season, I did a production of West Side Story, which listen, we're living in a completely different time. Now I could not I would not Maria and West Side Story. But in 1999, sure, yes, so I was West Side Story in between. So like that's for me, that was my I don't want to say release, but it was like it felt like coming home. Like this is this was the world that I had kind of walked away from. I didn't go to college, like the things that I thought I was gonna do that I didn't end up doing, not sadly, just because my life moved in a different direction, I then got to go back and do. So I always kind of kept my you know toe dipped in the in the shallow end and just kind of you know navigating that world. But when Sabrina ended for me, and I will be honest and say that it did end surprisingly, I didn't know I wasn't gonna continue on and do more seasons. I only did the first three seasons of Sabrina, so I didn't continue on, and that was not my choice. And you know, listen, things change and a lot of a lot of characters kind of came and went from the show, okay, but I was so in this mode of like this is my life and this is what we're doing, and the show is still so popular, it just didn't curse.

SPEAKER_00 41:41

Okay, you know, Libby's move not gonna be part of the next one.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

I mean, there wasn't really a lot. I mean, honestly, like I I do think that that maybe things now are handled a little bit differently, a little bit more comfort and grace. At the time, it just wasn't. I just kind of I think that I think I the the story behind it doesn't really matter, but I was kind of told from an outside source. That's usually how it happened back then, yeah. And then I was like, what are you talking about? And so I then immediately reached out to my my agents and was like, I don't know what's going on, but I think I might and and within an hour I got the phone call saying they are releasing you from your contract, they're gonna, you know, whatever. Go a different direction. I I found myself in this place where and and pilot season had passed, mind you. So I couldn't even audition. I was like, I hadn't auditioned for anything. So I was like, oh, I don't have a job, and pilot season's over. And you know, the we all know that that it is true that that I I can I can hold so much love and respect and grace for getting to play such an iconic world. Yeah but when you do something that is so recognized and recognizable, you do find yourself in a place where that's how people see you. So I did struggle. I floundered for a while because I was just like, I don't people are like, well, oh, she's with me. Oh, she's you know. So it was like I was very much like, I don't know what my, you know, people like, what are you gonna do next? I'm like, I don't know. I'm gonna like try and see if anybody wants to call me in for an audition for something. And I had a couple of very close, near misses right after Sabrina ended. I ended. I tested for uh Lauren Ambrose and I tested against each other uh Six Feet Under.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Okay, lovely.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Again, I can hold no animosity for the jobs I do get because they're so brilliant, but I I did test for Six Feet Under, and I tested and was actually I do believe that there was a news program that announced that I had won the role and they were wrong of um young Judy Garland and Me and My Shadows. But I had been auditioning over and over for that and Had actually been on hold for like a month, and it was one of those stories where they were like, We have one, we got this one tape from this young lady in New York, and just hold please. And it was Tammy Blanchard, and she won an Emmy for that role. So, again, like it's it's the what ifs and the almost and the maybes, but like you can't be upset because they were brilliant. They were brilliant, you know, but you're like, oh wow, that was almost me, but it wasn't what this business is about. So I was in this place where I wasn't doing spring anymore. I'd had these two like near misses, and I used to like listen, once a theater nerd, always a theater nerd. When we were young in growing up in Los Angeles and on TV shows, like so many kids were like go at sneaking into the clubs and doing this. And trust me, we did a little bit of that, but we did it in such a vanilla way, honestly. We were not we were not partiers. Oh, we were we'd go to the gay bars on Sunset Club. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

I love that. I should have been taken out with you. I might have turned out more normal.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

That's what I was doing, and I got a call out of the blue one day from someone saying, We got your name from so-and-so. They saw you at karaoke at I don't even remember what the name of the place was, but I knew the guy that hosted a karaoke and I used to go and do karaoke. Um, but it was like a live karaoke, it was like a performance thing.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

It was a series, it wasn't like the Oaks. It wasn't like the back room. It was like dimples. Did you say dimples? I did say dimples. I worked there. Shut up. And nobody ever knows what it is. I'm like, it's the very first karaoke bar ever in America. What are you talking about? You don't remember Sal, the owner, dimples, is like, hello. No one ever but you do, okay. Well, yeah, I worked there for it. It was a very weird year of my life. I bartended. So anyway, you were doing okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

So I got a phone call basically from someone saying, We got your name from so-and-so at the karaoke performance who said that they know you from karaoke karaoke, blah blah. They were doing a reading of this teen angst rock musical. And would I be interested? Mind you, they weren't offering it to me. They wanted me to come and like sing for them because this was this crazy, like entirely sung through pop opera type show. And so I did. I went and met with um uh the composer, a beautiful soul who's no longer with us, named Damon Interpotolo, and um Deborah Lurie, who was the music supervisor of it at the time. And um I sang, I don't know, they just took me. I I feel like somewhere there was like memory from cats. I don't know why. I think they were testing notes, but they were just trying to find songs that I knew. And um, so I ended up, and this was like honestly, this I think I started in like lit this was so on top of Sabrina because it was like 1999-2000. And I started these readings of the show with them, and then we ended up having uh what was meant to be a six-week-long production at the uh Hudson Theater in stage on Santa Monica Boulevard of Bear. It ran for nine months, and we were in the in the front stage and reefer madness was in the backstage. Wow. And um, and that took me on a journey. And then for four, three and a half years, I want to say after that, I would come back and forth. We would do presentations in New York, and it kept being like they were like, it's gonna go to La Jolla Playhouse, it's gonna go off Broadway, it's gonna go here, it's gonna go there, and just it was like it kept almost happening and not happening and almost happening again and not happening. And then in January of 2004, I moved to New York to star in Bear off Broadway. And I literally packed up my entire life. I knew like three people in New York. I'd been here only once before. You could care less. That's not true. I think I would come out and and um I'm totally lying. I did I did start coming out for like auditions.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

Um to New York, you mean?

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Yeah, but I'd never lived here or anything before. And so I moved out here um about a week. Intimidating. Yeah. I and I went through the audition process with them because they kind of had me sing with some of the guys, and it was a very strange situation and like overwhelming. But we we made this family, and again, the show very unceremoniously died because we closed our off-Broadway run purposefully to move it to a bigger stage and to revamp the show a little bit, and then our lead investors had a parting ways with their producing partners and did no longer had the money, and it was this weird thing. They like they kind of when I say paid, it was like paid almost nothing, but kind of paid the lead, the the lead actors to like kind of hold on, and we waited and we waited and we waited. Wow. And the show never reopened. Never, and here I'd move my whole life to New York. So you got to do it for how long then? Just a couple of months. Wow, almost. Just a few months, three or four months. But this show has this crazy weird cult following that I had no idea about until again work begets work, relationships bring other relationships, and things that are that have buzz, that have, you know, some some fire behind them get people to come. So a lot of people did come and see Bear, and the casting office, as well as the composer of Wicked had come to see Bear. And so then I ended up with an audition for Wicked very shortly thereafter. And once we were officially released and knew that the show was not gonna reopen, and then I wanna say in June or July of that following year, I or that same year, I was cast in the first national tour of Wicked, but we had like five months before we started rehearsals. So then I just had the summer of fun in there.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

That's incredible. I actually I watched your the 20-year, I believe it was reunion for Bear at um what's that jazz? It's Marvel. Thank you. I love that place. Um Wow. Also, what struck me too was the difference in um how my how do I say this correctly? Just um maybe just because I'm a performer as well. I d I don't know, but I I instantly within like the first three seconds of your perfor like just I could I watched you lock in. I heard that first note come out. I I like heard a different inflection even on like certain words that you chose to to really um put a a spotlight on, which is a weird thing to say, like put a spotlight on a word, but I think if you're if you come from musical theater, you will understand that. And just the the you you were so good both ages, but the you could so see all of the beautiful training and performances and like just heartbreak and success and joy and failure and all of the things that you have been put through in the last 20 years because or it from that time to the reunion time, because it it just showed in your perfor. I noticed it within four seconds. I was like, ooh, this is a different performer. Listen, it's both so incredible, like you know, it's wild.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

I I mean, and also what whatever was available to you to watch from the original production was like pre pre media.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

And then like you get to see you however many years later that actually ended up being. Um, and just the the I don't know, maybe because I'm an entertainer also, but I just I know how hard it is to stay that good your whole life. That's that's what I'm trying to say. And yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

I think also there it has to be something to to there's something to be said for, you know, Ivy, which was the character that I played in Bear. Um, which is also my niece's name. My sister was only 13 years old when I was doing Bear. She swears that she doesn't really remember.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

But you never know.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

I think she made it thought once. She was a little young for the show, if I'm being honest. It could get a little crazy. Um, but um I created her. Do you know what I mean? So it's like there's a difference between stepping into a show that is already existing.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Like wicked.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

Yes, and and creating your own version of a character, but it's not, you know, but but um I created Ivy. I sat I sat down at the piano with with the composer and the and the writer and and reworked things and so and songs were changed, and songs were cut and songs were added, and keys were were changed to fit you, to fit me. So, and also doing the show in Los Angeles and New York, I was there for every every incarnation and every version of it. And so I think that there is something that that allows you, you know. I think that that that, you know, thank you so much for the compliment. But like there is no way that I even, you know, Ivy sings about being, you know, 17 years old, like even at my ripe old age now, like if you asked me to tomorrow I could lock into Ivy because I I I literally create and I'm proud of it. I create this girl. I create in so many productions, and I've seen so many videos of so many fantastic young actors um doing the role. But it's like that is something that I hold so close to my heart because I I did, I created her.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

I was gonna say that earlier when you were describing some of the process, it like you put your blood, sweat, and tears into the, you know, you helped create that entire production. That's one of the very special things about like a I guess what we would call like a startup, you know, just for easier terms, is that um, yeah, when you're there to help um create something from inception, it's a different experience, you know, and especially when so much of it revolves around your character. And um, you know, I wanted to ask you also, because um, you know, when I thought up this podcast, it wasn't, listen, d uh so many of my friends are so iconic for so many different reasons, you know, but I think a lot of that what does not get talked about, especially from the 90s, because it's this like perfectly protected era of pop culture that we all hold on to so dearly because we have to. Because we open our phones and our screens and we're seeing the most gruesome shit every day, you know, and now like the world has never been more divisive politically, all just all of the things, you know. I you we had a funny conversation the other day, but I remember I told you, like, yeah, I've somehow made it to the polls, you know, voting-wise as a Democrat or whatever, since even when I was homeless, you know, and and stuff like that. So, you know, listen, in the world today, there's so much pressure mental health-wise. There's just, I don't believe a single person if they tell me I don't get depressed, I I don't have bad, I'm fine. I'll full fucking shit. There's no way. Then tell me what pill you're on, because I want it. So as a theater performer, as a a sitcom performer, what whatever iteration Jenna was in in her career, even now currently, espe well, especially with that theater schedule, that like eight to ten show a week schedule is insane. I mean, that's a lot of people. Thank you. There it is. I mean, it's so fucking much. How do you do that? Not even physically, yeah. Sure, you work out, eat good, blah, blah, blah. But like, I'm talking about mentally. Like, how how have you stayed sane mentally throughout your career up until now? Because it's the the dichotomy between the the two worlds you've lived inside of one world, not everybody gets that experience, right? You've gotten the experience of the like lights, camera action, and the big TV sitcom, and then also the like gristle and like grit in all of the things of of um Broadway, off-Broadway, theater, pla like local playhouse, all of that stuff. What does Jenna do to keep this like okay?

SPEAKER_02 57:04

Um, you know, that that is a great question. And the answer is that um it has evolved. I think I don't really remember back in the day. I think that I just did like when you're young, you don't have fear. When you're young, like the all of the the insecure the the insecurities and the and the because bi, I struggle with severe. When I say severe, I mean sometimes somewhat uh incapacitating stage fright. Really? Yes. And I didn't have it when I was younger. It is something that kind of manifested as I got older. I think there's a couple of of things that might have um uh factored in contributed to it and factored in. Um, but uh yes, it is. I mean, actually, I'm I'm I'm at the point where I'm actually kind of looking into possible like um hip hypnotherapy. Really? Yeah, because there's so many things that you do to try and like control it and manifest it, and you can take a beta blocker and and you know, whatever, but it's all it's all just covering it up. And I would actually really like to just get to the root of it and and try and see, and I've heard great things about possibly like like honestly being hypnotized out of my stage right because it is bad, like to the point where I'll shake, and I can cover it up more when it's just like acting, but when you're singing, you can't really cover that up. You can hear it in your voice, and your voice shakes, and it's it's just like so. I do, I actually really struggle with that, and it's something that has been very much on the forefront of of me, like because that is a mental thing. A hundred percent. That being said, um, when I was younger, we just did it. It was of course, we just didn't think about I wasn't thinking about like I'm being judged and are they gonna like this? And like you did, you did, but you didn't think about it in the way that you do as you get older.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

No, there's no way. I mean, I'm I'm even thinking back to to you know, live sitcom television. That's how I started my career. I have an interesting story too. I flew out here, I went up against Brittany Murphy, and I ended up getting it, and they were, you know, her and her mom pet, they were just so amazing, and we became so close with them so quickly. It was like you and Nikki, right? Where they actually invited us to stay with them for the first couple weeks, we moved out here just because we knew nobody. And, you know, so there was some really special people back in the 90s. Like it wasn't just mean girl, it's just the world's so different today. I feel as an actor's community, people were much more uh in wanting of helping you. I don't know. Maybe I'm I don't know. Maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm crazy about that, but but you know, the mental the mental health piece of it all, you know, um, yeah, I've I well one, that's crazy to know about stage right because like almost your biggest gift from God, whatever you want to call it, sometimes manifests into your biggest fear. That's deep if you really think about it. There's, you know, I'm sure there's something there, and I understand that too. I the older I get, the more um mental health stuff pops up and develops, and all of a sudden I started to to feel like nervous to do big public speaking, you know, all of that kind of stuff too. And and I do remember when I first started dating Nate, I snuck a crystal with him because he was on his way to 90s con. So we started dating like three or four days. That's how I can remember the anniversary. Uh three or four days before 90s con, like two, yeah, two years ago. So I snuck a crystal. It was it was strawberry quartz. And I remember he told me after like day one, he was like, I I gave Jenna the crystal because she was feeling nervous and she like held onto it really tight. And when she gave it back to me, it was like hot. I'm like, oh yeah, it took her energy. I don't even remember this. Yeah. I was like, yeah, it absorbed, of course it was hot. Duh. That's why I gave it absorbed her energy. Yeah, but I but I'm um, you know, when I'm thinking stage right, I can only imagine at stuff like that too.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:16

You is that something you are going through that people might not be aware of that you're like pretty So the stage right issue, yes, that is that is something that I do try and cover up. And it but it it you know it's it's not a good thing if you're you know a singer or a stage because you know it's but it happens. So here's the thing, you know, I know that the overall one of the overall um things that you want to achieve with this podcast is delving into mental health in relation to this business. Um yeah, itch, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:51

I think you know, just like yes, the certain things, but you've mentioned that to me numerous times, just like yeah, and I think in re in relation to this business, only because I know for a fact there's gonna be someone who listens to this episode who's admired you their whole life, who's looked up to you as you know, in whatever fashion, as the singer, as the actress, as just the humanitarian that you are, an activist and all the different things that you do. Um someone is gonna get helped by this episode by hearing you be so open and honest about just the fact that Jenna Lee Green has state right? What the hell? Like we, you know, and so that's gonna make somebody feel like they can do something in their life. I just know it, you know. So I think when I was thinking about like how the fuck do I incorporate the acting and the mental health and all this stuff and like make it feel, you know, brand like it's branded to me, I thought, you know, we have an opportunity here because we have so many incredible friends and people in our lives that are pretty well known, you know, and there's just no way that we haven't all gone through something at any given time. So I thought, hey, maybe if Jenna talks a little bit openly about her fears that she's had in her life and all of the the no's and the yeses and all of the things that we're gonna end up helping someone because we're all normal people too, just because we're actors, just because she's had this incredible career, you guys just heard it. Like a lot of it has come with stage fright. That's that's a tough beast.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:18

And there's other things, and and listen, you have to, it is also our job to recognize, learn how to navigate, and take steps that we can take to push through these things and stuff like that. And and you know, you were talking earlier about, you know, um people saying, you know, I I've I've never been through a depressive episode or I, you know, da-da-da. You're lying. You are I've always considered myself to be a pretty upbeat person. I've never really, I would not, I would not deign to to say that I have struggled with depression and this and that, but I have gone through periods where I didn't really know what the hell I was doing and felt lost and felt and you know that happened to me um around 2011. I was in Los Angeles and I had finished Wicked and I was struggling to get auditions. I was doing any, you know, artistic outlet I could find, and it was great, but I just didn't know what I wanted and where I was going. And I found myself more, I was like staying at home all the time. I was sleeping more, I was, and I I recognized these signs and things that I had never really gone through. And I did a lot of soul searching, and it was a really it's like it was a hard decision, but it was also the the easiest decision and best decision. But I packed up my entire life and without a job moved back to New York. Wow. And I've been here ever since. That's so ballsy. I couldn't figure out how to huh?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

I said that's so ballsy. I was like scared to leave Sherman Oaks, let alone move back to New York.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

I I I just couldn't figure out how to make myself happy. I couldn't figure out how to, and I just thought, I loved New York when I lived there. I've never lived there without a job or a secret job that that hadn't been announced yet, and so I was just playing and having fun. Um, and I was older than when I'd lived here the first time. And I kind of got I came to New York and I got a sublet for a few weeks, and I thought I'm gonna, I'm gonna just figure out if I need to go back. And I and I honestly I swear I knew within a couple weeks, I just breathed easier here. Wow, and I felt like you know, Ellen. LA is amazing and I miss LA all the time. I certainly don't live in New York for the weather. I miss Los Angeles weather. But LA can be hard. Like it's it can be hard to like keep your connections and keep your friendships. You know, it's like planning a coffee date with a friend in Los Angeles has to happen like with three weeks' notice. You know, why?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

It's so silly.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

But yes, it is silly, but it's like you gotta get in your car and you gotta go somewhere. And then it's like if you want to go have dinner, you know, I know you don't drink, but like if you're gonna have dinner with friends, then you're like, okay, well, I can't drive, I gotta Uber. And it's like in New York, my lifestyle, like I could have a friend, you know, text me at like 9 p.m. and be like, I'm in your neighborhood, want to get a drink? I'm like, sure, leave it now. Yeah, it doesn't happen. And so it's just like the community that I found in New York, and also the fact that like I could have I could have days in a row where I don't see a soul. But I get I walk out my front door, I live right on Central Park, I put in my earbuds, I put on a podcast, and I walk. And I can walk any. And it's just like these things don't happen in Los Angeles. So I think for my mental health, I made the decision to move back to New York because I feel like if you take work out of the equation, I exist better as a human being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Wow. You know what? You might be the first person I've ever, and I've worked in mental health for two decades. You might be the first person I've ever heard talk about picking a geographic because they knew it was better for their mental health. Usually we talk about using a geographic as some sort of an escape, right? Like an escape from whatever your issues or problems are in LA and thinking moving to New York is gonna fix everything, but it's not because there goes Jenna as well, right? So it wasn't Jenna that was the problem. And sometimes it it is environmental and shit. LA is a tough town. It's tough. It's tough trying to survive here your entire life. Like you said, it it can be tough maintaining the friendships. Um, you know, there's uh especially in this industry, as we know, there's a lot of ego. Um, you know, you'll get your heart broken by your friends as much as you will by a casting director or a, you know, boyfriend or a whoever, and it's it can be really tough. And I love it, it's so interesting. You like you have said so much stuff that I was literally just about to ask, but I was just about to ask as we kind of wrap up here a little bit. Um, you know, at for me in my 40s, entertaining means everything to me. Like I understand to my core that I was born to be a storyteller and an entertainer, and whatever way that's gonna roll out for me, whether it's just this or it's this and something else, whatever it's gonna be is gonna be perfect because the universe, I don't believe, makes many mistakes and stuff like that, you know? But um, you know, as women that are getting a not old, but getting older in this industry, um, I think I was around 40 years old when I we talked about this earlier when I when I started to stop caring as much, like when I started to stop giving so much of a fuck, right? About like all of the things and and a lot of that came with just having been in LA my whole life, that like I it was inevitable that I was gonna be fucked over by these people and this person. So I I think about that often, and Nate and I talk about that often as well of like should we just leave LA? Is LA cooked? Are we should we just go and like you know, um, because I mean wow, what a beautiful you know here's the thing though, like for better or for worse, the business has changed.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:56

The business has changed a lot. Um that is an option now. It doesn't really matter where you are because nothing is in person. And that is creating an entirely new mental health crisis for so many actors, myself included. Because, you know, we used to, and it's not like we need to be coddled. I don't need I don't need to audition for something and to have people be like, you're amazing, right? Absolutely in the mix for this. That's not what I'm talking about. No, but the we I we grew up in a world where you went in and auditioned live in person eight times for a part, and now we're just making these tapes and sending them out into the universe and never hearing a word. And I I'll be honest, I'm angry about it because I like to say the before times before the pandemic because that's really when the business changed. It was like the pandemic happened and then the strikes happened. Um shockingly, I actually worked a lot during the pandemic. Of course you didn't. Um I've really struggled since the strikes. Yeah. And um, you know, before we were living in a self-tape world, you would go in person to an audition. And you always knew if you you always knew if you were kind of in the mix for something because you had a you either had a callback or you didn't. Sometimes you had great relationships, you know, you'd you'd earned the respect in the relationship with certain offices that you were kind of brought straight into the producer sessions, but you either went straight to producer session or you had an audition you're to callback. So you knew right away, okay, I'm one of, you know, four to eight girls that are up for this part. And then you throw it away when you were done with that callback because you you knew that you were either gonna hear or you're not, but you knew that you'd done a great job and you were you were in the mix. Now we hear these tapes and we hear nothing, and that doesn't mean you're not in the mix. I had this crazy scenario happen um a while back for a a top-a-show guest star on a on a show. And I found out so randomly, I actually had a friend who was one of the writers on the show, didn't even realize this because it was a New York show, but the writer's room was in LA, so I didn't know she was working on it. And I get a message from her being like, I'm watching your tape right now. You're amazing, everyone loves you. I'm like, what? I haven't heard a word, and she's like, No, she's like, it's actually between you and one other person for this role, so you know, just fingers crossed, we love you though. Wow, and I didn't end up getting the job, which is besides the point. The point is no one from that casting office so much as emailed my reps to be like, hey, just letting you know, you know, there was no pin, there was no avail, there was nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:01

Not even a like, hey, she's so good that it's between her and one other, or uh, she was so good, but we just went the other direction because that's great as an actor to know not a word.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:11

I the only reason I knew that that my tape had even been watched by anyone. I mean, I I'm not I don't live in the camp that a lot of people I think are in right now, this gung-ho, like they're not even watching our tapes. I do think they're watching our tapes. Right. All of it. They then they need to stop giving us, you know, three scenes when they're gonna watch half a scene, and if they know you're not right, they move on. Like, give us one scene if you, you know, whatever. If you want more, you can ask for more. But the whole day of like, oh no, you know, like we'll give them notes and have them retape. I've never in in in six years since the pandemic happened, I have never once been asked to retape with notes, and I don't know anyone who has. And I know a lot of actors. Yeah, I don't know what that is, but I know that like myself and so many of my friends have reached out to our reps and been like, what is going on? Why don't we ever hear anything? And our reps are just as frustrated because they're like, we reach out to these offices and we're like, hey, and they're like, we're too busy, we don't we don't have time, we don't have time. But like I'm confused by that scenario because again, in the before times, not only did they have to set up sessions in person, but then they had to make their decisions on who they wanted to call back, then they had to get an entire creative team together to be physically in a room, then send out those appointments for the callbacks, then hold that session, then cast someone. But they don't have enough time to do a copy and post email being like, hey, just letting you know Natanya's one of our selects for episode 506 of blah blah blah. Yeah, just reconfirming her availability. That's it. Yeah, so easy. Is it the form email? You just replace the name in the in the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:50

And and also it's like a sign of respect for the actor that I mean, also in this day and age, it potentially costs you money to audition. Oh, yeah. If you don't, you know, I mean, I I'm very lucky I have Nate, you know, and and we have such a great setup for light, not everybody has that.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:09

No people to to to taping studios, or like you want to talk about like even musical theater auditions or or th regular theater. Oh, I don't know. Yeah, Broadly Regional, a lot of this stuff is still on tape for the first round. You have to hire, you gotta hire uh, you gotta like a lot of times you gotta hire someone to teach you the song. People are renting studio spaces because no you no one wants to be singing in our tiny New York apartments, full voice for like an hour. Right. Our porn.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:38

Yeah, I didn't even think about that. That's so wild. You and and I so I stopped acting for probably like almost close to 20 years. I just started about five, six years ago. Um, and when I started, I started because I agreed to do my best friend had written a short film. It was getting some attention. He asked me to star in it. I was like, oh, I just it just I it was not something I was really, really gonna do ever again, seriously. I said yes. Something sparked in me. It also happened to be like right around the same time I started to go through a divorce, and thank God. Um, and but at you know, I signed with the manager and all of the things. So when I came back into the industry, I was like, wait, what? You guys do what now? You self-tape?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:25

I have friends who don't know any other world. They're obviously they're much younger. That's crazy. They don't know another world other than self-tapes. They're like, I don't get the you know, going in and auditioning and having callbacks.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

They did, they weren't doing this until the excitement of the energy too, even just the like like with the knowing when you walk out of there and you know you're like, I just poked that role, you know, or whatever that feel oh, all of those it was so special back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:52

Or the opportunity to be face to face with someone um and and get an adjustment because I'm saying that like I'm not asking to be coddled and to be patted on the back and to be told you're wonderful, you're that's not what I'm asking for. But like, yes, I get it. You get these sides, but there's you know, you get you get sides, generally you're not getting the script. You don't really know, you you have no idea what came before you have no idea what came after. All these ticks and tricks and tools that we use as actors to help us create characters. We just have to create something out of thin air because we don't know the story. So we do our best, but that's not to say that that idea that you had and and and what comes to you aligns with what the writer was thinking when they wrote the part or what the director is thinking when they signed on to direct that episode. So you could be great, but just not exactly what they were thinking. But if you're not given the opportunity to make an adjustment because we're actors and we're actually good at it, most of us. Right, right. And then you're getting passed on because they have no idea if you can take direction and you just didn't give them exactly what they were thinking. But I'm like, I can't tell you, I I legitimately can think of I probably on one hand I can count the amount of times that I went physically in person to an audition and read and was not given an adjustment. Sometimes they're giving you an adjustment for real because they want to, you know, kind of adjust what you're doing. Yeah. I think more often than not, casting was smart and they gave you an adjustment that was just something they made up just to see and to make sure that you could take direction.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:42

Right. Right. Yeah, that's an yeah. That's that's not happening anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:46

So you know, and I do think that it's created this world now where like we're all second-guessing ourselves, we're obsessing over our self-tapes and watching them over and over. And like, which one do I send? I don't know. Is this one better?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:00

Oh, I couldn't even, Jenna. I so I've had one exactly one audition since well, I am now um actually I'm a free agent now. But I had exactly one audition in the, you know, and um so one self-tape, Nate, God bless him, he helped me all of the things, but I was like, I'm awful. I'm like not even good anymore, you know. But but like you're saying, that's probably not true. But like I I was given 24 hours, you know. Uh it was like basically given to me 24 hours prior. Like you said, it's three random scenes of like it's in the middle of the page where you're like, huh? With the big and and you have two minutes, and like you said, they're only watching 20, 30 seconds to sell yourself. But in person, when you can walk in the room, someone can feel your energy, someone can feel your confidence, someone can feel, oh, Jenna's in her pocket. Jenna's in the pocket right now. We can, it's like palpable over the thing. It's like they're not.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:05

Like sometimes it's not your, it's not your best day. And that's not true. You know, but I'm I'm just saying that I currently, as an actor, still out there every day, you know, you know, claw, you know, I love, I love when people are like, how do you choose your product? Projects. I'm like You're like when they offer them to me. Oh, you're so sweet. You think I choose? Like I pick my projects. No, I am I am just I am just chugging along like the best of them. I have had interesting successes in my career, but I've had great long periods of time where I feel like I can't get arrested. So it's just you're either in it for the long haul or you're not. But what I am speaking about speaking on right now is just, I I just I think this the the system the for actors right now is broken because we're just not getting a fair shot at anything because of these, you know, and again, also not for nothing, but it's also making us kind of freak out about doing things in person because we're so out of practice. And a couple of times actually, there's a couple of great offices who have started to offer the option of doing a zoom or a self-tape. Oh, that's cool. As much as I would rather, you know, do a self-tape because I can overanalyze myself 50 ways from nowhere and I can pick the one I like the best. I've been choosing the zooms because I'm trying to force myself to remember what it's like to have. You're trying to force yourself to be an actor? I'm trying to force myself to like not be in this bubble in my little apartment, just with my my lights and my iPhone talking into the into nothingness. So it's like at least with a Zoom, you're you are, and it was it's been lovely. Like, I'm actually having conversations with casting directors, and I'm getting the ability to be directed. And again, like okay, but and as nerve-wracking as it is, and you can't micromanage it because you're not in control. What you do in that moment is what you do in that moment, right? It's like we have lost the practice of performing and for people and with people. What a great idea. So I'm hoping that things can change and we can get back to at least at least if it's not. I I I I really do think it's not gonna change. I think we are gonna be self-taped forever. But I would like to see a change in the industry where there is a bit more, I don't want to say respect, but it is respect, like a bit more respect for the for the actors and the work. Like we people don't understand. Like, to in order to prepare an audition, it takes hours, if not days. And we also have lives. A lot of us have side gigs and other hustles and we have to pay bills too. Yeah, yeah. So we're not sleeping. We're like, we're like our sleep time is when we're trying to learn this stuff and prepare this stuff and memorize, even though they say you don't have to memorize. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Um, it's it's episodic television. They need you, they need to know that you could be ready tomorrow. So yes, you do. Yeah, um, but I just think that more courtesy could be shown towards us. And again, if if you submit a tape and they're not into it and it's not going any further, great. It's not going any further. But if you submit a tape and they're like, this I like, this I am sending as one of my selects to the writer, to the director, to the producers, right? Let us know. Just let us know. Literally, if I got that email being like, hey, just letting you know you're a select for you know, blah blah, right, you could be like, great, I'm doing something right. Boom, give me the next one. Right. Won't obsess over it, like, oh god, I haven't heard anything yet. Oh, well, yeah, no, they probably decided. What a great point. I to me, it seems so simple. So I don't understand why it's not happening. I really don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:00

Let me I'm not looking to get into the other side of things and not looking to get into fasting, but I'm just saying it seems simple. And I know there's some who will say you do that. I have not really experienced it.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:14

Right. It's interesting as an adult coming back into, you know, um, you have never left the industry. You've this is your entire life, you know. You could have been quieter, but I've never you know, I've had a a little chunk off, obviously. So imagine coming back. I'm looking around, I'm like, hello? Uh is everybody okay? What's happening here? You know? We're still here. Anyway, we're still here. And then one morning I woke up and I was like, wow, okay. So I'm like basically in a position again where I have to like beg somebody to let me prove to you that I have talent. Please let me show you that I am an actor or whatever it is. And then I thought, wait a second, no, I don't. No, I don't. If everybody else can go out there and make up all their own stuff that they want to do, you know, uh, whether it's even some of these really, really, really incredibly creative um content creators, you know, like the one thing I do like about today's day and age is that we all have permission now to create. The other side of that coin is that it has allowed for some really, really unsavory characters to get platformed in a way that I don't know necessarily is really conducive for the world we're already living in. And then it's kind of like, well, then then there's still Jenna and Natanya hustling and grinding the old school way because we're not TikTok people. We're not, you know, I'm trying because of the, you know, with a it's such a different thing with a podcast. It's I got a posting schedule. It's crazy, you know, and I'm trying to figure all this out at 45 years old. It's crazy. I'm like teaching people how to make matcha. Like, I don't know what the fuck. I'm almost 45. I'm not that exciting anymore. Um, but this is for all of our theater kids, like our theater babies at heart out there listening, because this is this episode is for them, truly, you know, this is gonna be a very special episode for them. What it's hard to even ask this question in this day and age, but in this day and age, if there were like a couple little things of advice you could give to a younger kid that has a theater heart, you know, um, and really just wants to get on that stage, what would be a couple things you would suggest to them?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:46

Um truly training is first and foremost, because for theater, listen, and I'm not I'm not trying to diss television and films, but we we've all watched a lot of TV and film with some real pretty people who were who were not the greatest. I wouldn't say that they were the best actors, but right for for the camera, the camera just loves them and and they're watchable, they're utterly watchable. Right. And it was just like, I see it, I get it. They're not a good actor, but I get it. I you cannot get away with that in theater. I like to say that like the ensemble of a Broadway musical are the most talented human beings you could ever meet. I am not talented enough to be in the ensemble of a Broadway show. Literally flat out. Well, it's like a role, or I'm not, because I'm not a good enough musician, like as far as like music theory and like knowing the ins and outs of harmonies and this, like I I was born, I was born with a gift, a musical gift for sure. But because again, I didn't go to college, so I wasn't like in those music theory classes.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:00

It's not a musical brain necessary.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:02

In the mandatory dance classes. I don't think I have two left feet, but I am not hoofing it in a Broadway show. Like nobody wants to see me dancing in a Broadway show. So it's like with me, I kind of had the luxury of I'm either like that that lead or featured role or I'm nothing. And I look at these ensembles of these Broadway shows and it's like, oh my God, that their voices are in. I have a unique voice and I know that about myself. I I I'm not trying to like be self-deferred. No, it's there, yeah. But like my voice compared to a lot of the other, you know, females in New York City is not at the level. But there is something I think very unique about my voice. And if if what I have is what you want, then you're not gonna find it somewhere else. But as far as like melting to the stratosphere and being so clear with like my like I'm pitchy sometimes, like all of these things I know about myself, and it's just you know, and I try and and you know, but like lessons are expensive, man. Like voice lessons out of control. Like I wish I was in them regularly. I'm not, but like when you're young and you have those outlets, you have like dance classes available to you, singing lessons available to you, acting classes available to you. Acting classes when I was younger were like that. Was I mean, I was in Ernie Lively's acting class for years. I grew up in that class.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:29

Yeah, all of them John Homa, Andrew McGuaran, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:34

I remember Blake Lively, six years old, running around the studio, like she lived there because her mom and dad would just bring her. Yes, he was the best. I love that kid. Um, the whole family. But um I actually used to date Eric. However, that is hilarious. Um, but I just would say that like for and we're talking specifically for theater, for musical theater here. It's the training is everything. And I'm not talking about theater school, I'm just talking about actual training. Like, like don't quit dance class at 13 years old like I did, because you wanted to like do nothing on the weekends. Don't get those voice lessons, really train and figure out what your voice does well and work on the things that it doesn't do well. Um, you know, I'm not talking about, I don't have a specific acting technique. I'm not like method or Stanislavsky or Meisner or anything. I don't have a sp, but I do have tools and tricks, because a lot of it is about tricks. Um, and and things that I, you know, spent my youth kind of figuring out were things that were specific to me and and ways that I could figure out how to create a character. So those things are really, really important. And also, and this is not gonna be a popular opinion, if you don't love it more than anything in the entire world and couldn't imagine yourself doing anything else, don't do it. It's not for you because it is so hard. Yeah, I love it and I understand that it's such a difficult, difficult profession, and I'm an absolute mad woman. Like I'm crazy, crazy for continuing. But if you don't love it that much, find something else because it will break your heart. This business will break your heart, but then it will give you everything you ever wanted and make you feel so wonderful and introduce people to your life that you can't imagine not knowing. So you have to take the good with the bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:49

All right, all right, I'm gonna ask you one last question, and this is the question I always ask everybody. Um, because then we've had such different, interesting answers. So when you hear we're still here, babe, I put my flair, but we're still here. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 1:32:12

Honestly, I don't know your your scheduled guest list, but if I could imagine in my mind who I think your guest list probably is, knowing you and knowing the genre you come from and knowing whatever, I think that you have probably collected a lot of oddballs and misfits who had these great successes, who have chugged along through out the last twenty, thirty years, and who are still doing the thing, and people might not realize that, but you know, if we're bringing it back to some some classic Broadway here, as uh Elaine Stritch sang, good times and bad times, I've seen them all, but my dear, I'm still here. Um, you know, it's like that was not right. There's Jenna's clip for episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:25

No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:26

I'm kidding, I'm on them. Um, but I'm just saying that like I I I feel like you're having heart-to-hearts with those of us who are lifers in this business who may have stepped away for a moment and then have come back, or may have been, you know, collecting a really solid resume that that I'm really proud of throughout the years. And it may not, I may not be a megastar, but I actually don't know that I ever wanted to be. Right, right. You know, I love my life. I have a great life, I have wonderful human beings in my life, and I don't know that I would like my life if I couldn't live the life that I want.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:11

And you're a wonderful human being, and you're so treasured by your friends, and everybody gets so excited when you're coming around and all of the things too. And that doesn't come from being, you know, a a shitty, selfish asshole person. That comes from being somebody who has learned how to navigate being successful and not having to lead with it, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:33

Yeah, because I think that I do think that there is a level of success that makes it impossible for you to live a normal life. Correct, yeah. And it makes it impossible for you to well, it doesn't make it impossible, but it makes it very difficult for you to maintain the relationships and friendships that are the most important thing to you. And I I just don't know that that I don't think that was ever my goal to be at that level, but to continue to remain in this business and to be someone that people respect, to be someone who is on lists when people say we need someone we can rely on, we need them to be on set tomorrow, who could we call? I know I've been on some of those lists. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:21

I mean, you're a huge inspiration for any human in this world, truly, that that um one, if you haven't learned that Jenna has an incredible amount of work ethic in this interview we've had, then you haven't heard what we've been talking about. And um wow, have you really carved um a space for women in musical theater, Broadway, television, all of the things to be given the permission to, like you said, put their bones into a project, you know, put their entirety into a project and help create these uh incredibly iconic characters. And if all we ever got was Lily, um um Libby and whatever. I mean, who whoever else would mean the most to you, fuck. That would have been enough of a contribution to the world of art, but man, there was so much more. There's so much. And but really there's so much more to you as a human. You know, I watched so much of what you do online, unfortunately, because there's you know, you're three hours ahead of us and you're not always here with us that we can hang out with, but I watch what you do, I watch the way you carry yourself, I watch the things that you are um interested in, and I watch the things that you endorse. You're very um careful about your platform, and I love that about you. I've noticed that from like jump from when we first met and became friends. Um, I love the friendship you and Nate still have after all of these years. So um before we end, why don't you tell us a couple things that you have coming up, where we can find you? I'll let you talk.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:09

Um, well, I don't know when actually this will air. So um it you'll be fine. You'll be fine. Who knows? Who knows uh if if um if it will be in the past tense, but we do actually have a 30th uh anniversary live reunion show for Srina, which we have been working so hard on. Uh you guys literally have no idea uh the shit we have planned. Um it's not just gonna be us coming up on stage and sitting there and answering questions and reminiscing. This is not this is a full-blown show. Um it is uh June 12th in Chicago at the Vic Theater. Um you can find tickets online. All of us have have links in our bio, right? All of us have links in our in our Instagram and social media bios where you can get tickets. It is gonna be such an incredible night.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:58

Um Are we allowed to say who all is gonna be, or are you allowed to say who all is? Yeah, it's already been announced.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:04

It's gonna be, you know, Melissa, Melissa Joan Hart, obviously. Caroline Ray and Beth Broderick will also be with us. Nate, Richard, and myself. Who's that? Who's that? Nate? Some guy you might know. Um, as well as Soleil Moon Fry, Alisa Donovan, and David Lasher. So we've got a great array of the Sabrina cast spanning from day one till the final episode of Season Single.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:27

And also uh kind of a 90s royalty lineup there because you have Sabrina, but there are so many other projects attached to all of those names you just mentioned. I do want to give a special shout out to David Lasher. He's the EP and showrunner of this podcast actually. Yes. So we love David and David. You know, it also and I I'll we'll end with this. In this industry, like, fuck, we've gotten to a point where if we can't like rely on our friends to remind us who we are and that we can do it, because if I just rely on this, there's times, days that this is not good to me. You know, I've said so many times publicly to the trolls or whatever online, like, if you guys really think you're saying something to me that hurts my feelings more than anything I've said to myself, you're not. You're not. You can't. There's nothing anyone could say to me meaner than what I've said to myself. And that's my trauma and all my work I've had to work through in the last two decades of therapy and 12-step and rehabs and all of the different things to get to the point where, you know, I'm at today. Um, but what I do want to say is I think that um, you know, just in regards to David and just thinking about your friendship with Nate as well, because there have been so many times where Nate's instant like uh reflect is like, I'm just gonna call Jenna, right? And I'm like, I love that for you guys though, because one, I understand how special it is to have your family, your 90s TV family still. Um, you know, but also we are at a point in the world where if we cannot depend on our friends, we are fucked. So when our friends come to us for advice or with these ideas, like I woke up and decided, hey, I want to make a podcast so my friends can come on and tell the world a little bit more about who they really are, you know? And to have a friend like David that's like, oh my God, yeah, no, that's yes. What do we do? What do I what do I do? And and we need we need more friends like that. And and like you, I mean, hey, Jenna, will you come on? Yes, just instant, you know. I mean, God, that stuff is so important that we all in our own ways have found these beautiful relationships within each other. Um, whether we knew each other in the 90s, we've known each other since the 90s, it doesn't matter. It's a camaraderie that we all have. That it's like it's a life that like I you understand. Like, I we don't even have to speak it in full words. You're just like, no, yeah, I I I get it. And that's that's so special. So, Jenna, thank you so much for coming on the show, just letting the world hear a little bit more about how special you are. And um, you know, I I I've I've always said I think the hardest art form by far are Broadway performers and then stand-up comics and then actors. You know, I mean singers are, I mean, I know it's all hard, but the the musical theater they're brought, I mean, you're so impressive, you're so talented, you're so wonderful, you've been such an incredible friend um in so many ways. So just thank you and they thanks for thanks for still sticking around. We're still here, babe. We're still here. We're still here, babe, is proudly sponsored by Moon Glade Recovery Community. You guys know how loud I am about mental health. It is one of the most important things that we have to take care of, and I will forever advocate for it. Moon Glade Recovery Community is a clinician-owned and operated, highly structured, luxury mental health primary and substance abuse primary outpatient treatment community. We say community, you guys, because honestly, the opposite of loneliness is connection. And connection is so important in the process of treatment. Moon Glade is an art and nature influenced program, providing heavy clinical and trauma-focused mental health programming, and that's the good stuff, you guys. Getting into that trauma, releasing it. It's located in Gora Hills, California. Moon Glade is nestled in the hills close to Malibu, Calabasas, and Thousand Oaks. It's gorgeous. But most importantly, if you or anybody you know is looking for information about mental health or substance abuse treatment, intensive group therapy, andor individual therapy, please contact Moon Glade Recovery Community. Their phone number is 213-398-9379. And the rest of their information is on our website. We're still here, babe, is also proudly sponsored by Intramidocell and Lathanized NAD Plus. It's an oral form of NAD that underwent a double blind randomized controlled study, proving that it gets to your cells by 53% in five days. 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