SPEAKER_00 0:01

For generations, North Georgians have turned to WDUN for local news, local voices, and trusted conversations. Now join Reverend Dr. Terry Walton and teacher's reflections on faith, family, and the moments that shape our lives. Inspired by years of ministry and the writings of Monday memo, each week offers wisdom, encouragement, and practical lessons for everyday living. This is Sunday morning with Reverend Dr. Terry Walton of North Georgia's News Talk, WDUN.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Welcome, friends, uh, to another Sunday morning. I'm Terry Walton, and it's such an honor that you would give time of this first day of the week on this Sunday to spend it with some thoughts and some considerations of conversation for you. You may be relaxing at home. You may be getting ready for your time at worship today, wherever you are. Welcome. It's so glad that you're with us. Today is a very special day. I have with me a dear friend of mine, uh U.S. District Court Judge, Federal Judge Rick Story. And I wanted to invite Rick here for a week so that we could talk about the issues of faith and justice. We hear a lot about those words flying around here and there in various conversations. And I thought it would be good to kind of uh hear from Rick his perspective as he sits on the bench and uh addresses a variety of concerns uh of the bar. And uh Rick, it's good to have you with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Thanks, Terry. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Share a little bit about, first of all, who you are, your family, your life, so that folks can get on board with uh who you are and why you do what you do.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Okay. I uh I'm a small town boy. I grew up in Harlem, Georgia. Most folks don't know where that is. I'd normally just say I'm from Harlem, and they look at me puzzled and say, You don't talk like you're from Harlem. And I say, Well, everybody else I know from Harlem talks the same way I do. But it's a small town west of Augusta, uh, where I grew up. My dad ran a service station. I worked, pumped gas, wash cars. And so that's sort of the way I grew up. And uh I think that has a large part to do with what's important to me, uh how I deal with people. When you grow up in a small town, you learn uh that everyone takes care of everyone else. And uh so then I uh had the opportunity to go off to college all the way across the state, which was a big jump for me, to Leagrange College, a little Methodist college over in West Georgia at LaGrange, where I was lucky enough to meet my wife, Nancy, who is a PK, a preacher's kid. And uh we married, have three wonderful children, three great grandkids, but uh found our way. I went to law school at the University of Georgia and coming out of there got a job here in Gainesville, practiced law for a couple of years, and then uh one day I got a call from a lot of folks who remember Judge Dick Kenyon, who was just to me the epitome of what a judge should be. He just represented it all. He called me one day and said he wanted to appoint me as a juvenile court judge. I had been doing some work in the juvenile court and uh I gave a really dumb answer. I said, Well, Judge Kenyon, I'm not sure I want to be a judge. I can't believe I said that. But I did. And uh and i in his wisdom he said, Well, you just need to talk to John Gerardo, who's presently a judge, and and I talked to John, he said you should give this a try. I did, so glad I did, I found out that's where I should be. And from there I became a superior court judge here in Gainesville for twelve years and then was lucky enough to be appointed to the federal bench in 1998, been there ever since.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Wow. Well, thank you for that work. Yeah. Because it is important work. I know also you are a member of Gainesville First United Methodist Church and a Christian. I'd be interested to hear how you find faith affecting your work as a judge.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

You know your faith affects you even when you don't realize it's affecting you. If it's a part of who you are, it's there. I think the place where I can put my finger on it and I think it impacts me the most is in the criminal law area. Of course, we hear criminal cases, we hear civil cases, and criminal cases are when someone's violated the law. And if they're found guilty, they're ultimately standing before you at some point and you have to pronounce a sentence. And and I think it's in those moments that uh I realize the humanity of the person standing in front of me, that it's it's really uh sobering to think you want to judge that this person did something terrible, uh that they've hurt someone or whatever, but realizing that in your faith, this is a person made in the image of God. Yeah. And so for me, somewhere in there is a kernel uh that is a part of that. And when I look at that person, I try to always realize that that is the case. Uh and I have work to do, I have a job to do, I have responsibility to the public. Sure. But there's also, I think, uh my faith calls on me to have a part in terms of how I treat that person, how I deal with them, the respect I show them as a person. Uh, and I think that's probably the place in my work where my faith dictates more what I do than in any other.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Well, thank you for that. Uh, because I think sometimes, like a lot of things in life, we have an image of what a judge is. Uh I know I run across people who have an image of what a preacher is. Right. And uh a lot of times we uh we don't mean to, but we really don't have a clue. Right. You know, we really don't have a clue until we walked in somebody's moccasins. Sure. We don't have a clue. Um have you had a situation that kind of brings this question up where mercy changed a life more than punishment when you're dealing with this human part and the law?

SPEAKER_02 6:06

You know, it's interesting because one of the sad parts of my job is I don't see many of my success stories. Uh if a person appears before me and I exercise mercy, I do something different than perhaps what others were urging me to do to give someone a second chance or a third chance or whatever. If they succeed, I never see them again. If they fail, they are brought back before me. And so uh I I often say to people when they're before me, what you and I both want is for us to never see each other again. I mean, that's that's our success. And so uh I think I've I hope I've had more success stories than I know about. I'll share one with you real quickly. Sure, yeah. My wife uh was having lunch with a friend who convinced her to park in a lot here downtown that had a sign that clearly said, if you park here, we're going to tow your car and bring cash, because you have to have cash to get it back. And her friend convinced her they don't do this at lunch. And so she parked there. They had lunch and she came back. Of course, her car was gone. And she called the the place and said, Uh, I think you probably have my car. And it described it. He said, Yes, we do. What's your name? And she said, Nancy Story. And and she hates it when this happens, but when she said that, there was silence on the other end of the phone, and then the question, the ultimate question, do you know Judge Story? And Nancy's never sure how to answer that question. She always wants to say, Well, it depends. But she didn't. She said, I do. He is my husband. And this person said, Do you have a way to get here? And she said, I do. I can get her. He said, Are you sure? She said, Yes. He said, Well, just come on, this is where the car is. And she said, Well, how much money do I? I don't carry cash. How much money do I need? He said, You don't need any money. She said, I do. The sign says I have to have money. And he said, Ma'am, let me tell you something. About four years ago, I was standing in a courtroom in front of your husband, and he looked at me and he said, I don't know why, but for some reason I think you're worth taking a chance on. I I'm not going to send you to prison. I want you to turn your life around and do something with it. Make something to yourself. I believe you can do that. I honestly do not remember that occasion. Gotcha. But he said that to Nancy, and he said, he said, Ever since then, I have not touched an illegal substance. I have lived my life well. I am now the part owner of this business, and I have prayed to God every day to give me a chance to repay him for what he did. And he said, This is my chance. Nancy, in her ultimate wisdom, said, And you have repaid him. But if I don't bring you this money, he is going to be very upset that we did not pay you for your drawing my car. I have to know how much do I owe you? And so she did, and she paid him. But but that's one of those rare instances that, you know, and she said, she said, trust me, when I tell him this, he will have been repaid tenfold for anything he ever did for you. And it's true. I mean, it's I'm telling the story now, and this probably happened ten years ago. But I mean it just that those little things say, okay, maybe I got it right once, at least.

unknown 9:08

You know.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Boy, that's uh that's a beautiful story. You know, I'm reminded of the scripture in Micah. I wrote it down so I could quote it correctly because I've said it backwards, forwards, and upside down. What is good and what the Lord requires from you to do justice, embrace faithful love and walk humbly with your God. You know, even when you're in the process of having to deal with difficulty in a person's life, Rick, there seems to be something about from you, this sense of being humble and understanding that uh you're human, I'm human, you're a child of God, I'm a child of God. Now we've got to work our way through this.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Um Terry, it's interesting you chose that script. I have that scripture framed. Really? I have two offices, one in Atlanta, one in Gainesville. That is framed and sits on my desk in Atlanta and Gainesville.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Wow.

unknown 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

That scripture from Lyka sits there. Yeah. It's a constant reminder. And so every day I go there trying to get that right.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Well, you know, let's let's talk about this a little bit, because I think um at least uh I hear from people wrestle with this a little bit. What's the difference if there is a difference, and I think there is, what's the difference between biblical justice and legal justice? How does that come forth from you?

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Yeah, I think I think technically speaking, legal justice is following the rules. It's assuring that people follow the law and comply with the law, and a part of it that now starts to bleed over into, I think, biblical justice is that all people stand the same before the court. Uh there is no favor placed based on your station in life, uh based on your race, your gender, your your income. All people are s to stand equal and in the same place before the court. Uh and it is the idea is there that there are rules that we comply with. I I think the d probably the biggest difference, and let me say I think this is bleeding over into the the justice system. I'll tell you why in a minute. But I think biblical justice has a a proactive part of it where there's a a need to reach out to and pull up those who are suffering or those who ha do not have the benefits and so forth. I think that's a that's a part of bringing justice to the world, is that those who haven't received are given the chance and are brought along. So I think there's that. And and I will say to you that in the justice system, and Hall County Superior Court has a wonderful set of uh courts that are there, alternative courts that for mental health court, uh, drug court, to help people that are in trouble with the law because they have other issues and help them deal with those issues. I mean that's kind of biblical justice. I mean, it's reaching and pulling someone up, not just holding them to the laws, but you still hold them accountable. That you still have to follow the rules and follow the law, but it's an opportunity to come out of that uh a more whole person.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah, I remember Charlie Wynne and his uh drug court. Uh it's probably called something fancier than drug court.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

But no, it's called drug court. I mean they probably do have, but everyone calls it drug court. Yeah, that's right. And it's a and it's a wonderful thing, and courts uh all over are doing that in all candor. The federal courts are a little behind, the state courts do a better job of that. And part of the reason is that in federal court we tend to get more serious offenders that are a little farther down the criminal road than perhaps uh you get in superior court sometimes. At your early stages, you can do an intervention perhaps and make a change. Sometimes we're dealing with folks that have are at different levels in the process and it calls for a different response. But but even we have now developed uh one of my colleagues, Judge Grimberg, has developed a re-entry court so that people coming out of prison uh have a chance to work through their issues to help assure they don't get revoked and sent back. And so even even in our instance, we're ri recognizing there's a need to do that.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

You know, that brings up a question. Uh I don't know that you and I have ever talked about this, but I think it kind of comes from some of this. What is it that breaks your heart the most as a federal judge?

SPEAKER_02 13:32

I I'm gonna tell you the first answer that popped in my mind. I can probably sit here and think of better ones, but and I may get emotional, but it w it breaks my heart to have a defendant come before me and there be no person in the courtroom that is sentencing. And I say to my friends, when even Mama's given up on you, is there anybody left to care? And and for me, uh it's uh uh it breaks my heart that that person uh on his day of judgment here on this earth is standing alone. I mean you have counsel with you and certainly we have great lawyers that represent, but to not have a loved one who's there in that moment with you uh breaks my heart. And and I say that because I have seen the difference having mom in the courtroom can make. Another I'll try to do this quick. I I had a young man who was before me with a couple of other young men that was on superior court for murder. They killed a man in a convenience store and for no good reason. I just they went in, robbed it, killed him, left him on the floor. And throughout the proceedings, every time he appeared before me, he was so stoic and he showed no emotion, no remorse, nothing. And he was always alone every time he came. The final appearance was for his sentencing, and he came and he stood before me, and my staff said, His mother's here. And she sat on the front row. And as we talked, he kept looking at her, and finally, he's standing before me and doesn't ask permission or anything else. He literally breaks down and sobs and runs to his mother and crawls in her lap, wraps his arm around her and sobs. There's not a dry in the courtroom. The deputy looks at me because you're not supposed to have it. He looks at me and I just shake him off and say, No, leave me alone. This needs to happen. And just that moment verified for me the impact that and it uh doesn't have to be mother, I just sure use it. But that that person who's there in that moment, uh, it breaks my heart when someone stands there alone. Uh and so when you ask that question, and that's not one you told me you were gonna ask. I know. You just asked. And I just boom, I just gave you the answer. That's that's that's a little scary. We've be careful here.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

You know, I I have it you have to be careful with generalizations, but I've often said we're all a result of our histories. And I and I know that's gotta be at times where you sit that you see folks who have had a rough history, if and that's got to be tough. Uh I know just in ministry I see enough of that and have seen enough of that where you just it really speaks to this part in me where Jesus says, Don't be judging folks, because you, you know, we only, and that's a different kind of judgment we're talking about, Rick, but we only know a part of somebody's story. You know, God sees the whole picture, and that's uh real reassuring to me that ultimately God's the ultimate judge. Yes. Not to minimize what you all do at all, but uh because folks uh out there, I would just say to our audience, you know, uh you may think you've got somebody figured out, you may even think you got yourself figured out. But I will say we're all a result of our histories, and we don't know what folks have been through that been through. That doesn't justify anything. It just helps us understand that we are human and we are loved, and some of us have had precious histories, and some of us have had uh tormented histories, for lack of a better term.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

I can't tell you how many times I've said to my staff coming off the bench, having just sent at someone, have said to them, Who expected this person to be anywhere other than where he stood today before me with the charges that he had? I mean, he was eleven years old and his dad started showing how to shoot up meth. Yeah. I mean he was uh th these these circumstances and you sit there and you you think how how could he have been anywhere other than here? What miracle would it have taken for him to have gone a different route? I mean it's just uh and it it you know it makes you it makes you when you're driving home from court and you turn down your street to say that little prayer, thank God for where I'm going tonight. And so you look at the where people have been that you've spent the day with who didn't have a chance to have a chance to do that. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

That's right. Um what th that sort of begs the question, what role do you see forgiveness? What role does forgiveness have in the administration of justice in your mind?

SPEAKER_02 18:18

You know, I think it has more f uh to do for victims than for perpetrators. You know, I think uh uh one of the first steps to a victim recovering from a crime is being able to get past it and uh all that that has heaped on them to get on with their lives. Uh you know, I sometimes say it indicates is that I hope that we are all able to close a chapter in the book today and start a new one tomorrow. That this we we've resolved this issue and now we can move on. And I think for a victim to perhaps be able to do that uh is a good thing. I mean one of the th things I care most about as a judge is that someone comes before me and feels they've been heard. And so I try to listen for what they need to say to be heard. I had a case where a a woman's child had been killed in a terrible automobile accident and there was a s a suit over the wrongful death for money damages, and the the parties came in and said, Judge, we need to settle this case. There's a legitimate offer, but the mom won't settle. And I said, What's the problem? He said, She just has never been heard what has happened to her and losing her child. And I said to the defense lawyers and the defense, I said, Could you handle it if we just bring her in to chambers and let her have her say? And they talked about it, they said, Yes, sir, we'll we'll give it a try. And we came in, we brought her in, and it was it was so difficult. She just poured her heart out. What what a loss she had lost her child and she could never have him back, and it was just I mean, it was gut-wrenching to watch this. And when she was finished, she turned to me and she said, Okay, I'm done. Wow. They settled a case right then. But she had to have her moment. And so the court uh serves various functions, and and that's one is to give people that moment. We have a organized society where people can go to a place and have those cathartic experiences, have that response to an injury without going out and getting the eye for the eye. So yeah, it's it's it's a function that the courts serve.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

You know, I it it's it reminds me uh how important it is in everyday life for people to feel like they've been seen and have been heard. It might make a huge difference in our society today, just out there in everyday living, if we would be sensitive to that.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

I've said it too many times, I guess because I have to hear it so much, and that is uh, you know, God's giving me two ears and one mouth. I ought to listen as twice as much as I talk, and that's tough for this preacher. But but you know, we uh thank you for sharing that story because that just reminds us uh, you know, maybe we can stop some things from getting to federal court if we would just start listening to one another and speaking uh less than we listen. Um let me ask you this question, Rick. Any concerns you see out there as a as a judge, you've been doing this a while, uh anything you'd want to say to the audience as we draw a conclusion to our conversation that you'd want to say that would be important for folks to hear about justice in our world, the federal court, et cetera?

SPEAKER_02 21:43

There is. And it is something that I serve on a committee for the courts that is focusing on this, and it is to learn about the courts and the role of the courts. People have this idea that the courts can fix anything, they can that we're all powerful and all we have very limited power. We are judges of limited jurisdiction. We can't fix the ills of the world, and we have to operate within the confines of the rules and the law. You know, I don't get to do what I want to do. I tell my law clerks when we issue an order, there are two parts. One, follow the law, and the second is this innate sense of justice within you that you hope you appeal to. The first one we can't compromise on. We must follow the law. We hope we hit the second one, and our law is designed to get fair, just results. And so 99 times out of a hundred you do, but there's that one case where you just don't feel good about it. But it's what the law requires, and you have to say to the parties, there's not a remedy for you here at law. And I think people we're trying to do more civics education. We're working with folks, and I've been a part of a thing where we're getting law students to go to high schools and teach kids civics law and the role of the courts so that they understand wonderful the whole the whole government, every branch that has a role that is to function if it's the government's gonna function.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

So well um being informed is what I'm hearing, and understanding uh so and as I like to say, uh don't uh shun responsibility somewhere else. Think about the difference you can make, whether you're a federal judge or not. Uh be reminded that we do have influence. Leadership is influence, and if you're a parent, you're an influencer. If you're a friend, you're an influencer. Uh Rick Story, thank you. Uh our federal judge has been with us today to talk about faith and justice. Thank you for your faith. Uh thank you for what you do for our society, for our community. Thank you for your heart. Uh, and thank you for being willing to let me ask you at least one question I didn't tell you I was going to ask you.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

It's been it's been fun, Terry. I've enjoyed being with you. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Thank you. And thank you, friends, for being with us this morning on Sunday morning. It's always good to see you bright and shiny on the first day of the week, and I thank you for taking the time. Hope you'll join me next week, Sunday morning, a time when we can have conversation. If you want to know more about it, you can check into the book Monday Memo. Go to MondayMemo.org and you'll find a way there to order the book or hear more about the possibilities. Thank you, my friends. God bless you. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

You've been listening to Sunday morning with Reverend Dr. Terry Walton. Each week, Terry shares reflections on faith, family, and lessons that help guide us through everyday life. Today's conversation was inspired by Monday Memo, a collection of reflections on faith, life, and family, featuring more than five years of weekly writings and encouragement. Find Monday Memo at Amazon.com or visit Mondaymemo.org. Join us again next week for another edition of Sunday morning with Reverend Dr. Terry Walton on North Georgia's news talk.