Are You Helping Your Partner or Managing Your Anxiety?

Have you ever tried to help your partner through something hard, only to end up in a fight instead? 

In this episode, Raychel and Kevin walk through something that happened to them that same morning - a rough night, a funk, and the instinct to fix it that almost turned into the very fight they were trying to avoid. They get into what happens when a partner people pleases instead of leaning into their authenticity, and what this behavior pattern is actually about. 

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Transcript

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Welcome to This Love in Action, where Kevin and I talk about all of the real things that exist behind a really healthy and sound marriage, all of the difficult moments, all of the incredibly amazing moments, and we do it all on camera so that way hopefully you can navigate some of those real moments in your own lives. So one of the marriage hacks that I feel like we've developed over time has been our walks together. Mm, yeah. Um, Kevin and I take a daily wa- multiple times per day, we walk the dog. Mm-hmm. And we just talk about stuff, and oftentimes, like, we have a gratitude practice that we'll do with each other, and we also use it as an opportunity to, like... Level set, talk about real things. It's, it's sort of a go-to for all things. When things are feeling, like, tip-top and things are great, it's, like, such an energizing, fun, what's next? How is everything feeling? Everything feels amazing. You know, we get to celebrate- Mm those experiences, and then when things feel off, one of us can nudge it along. You know, things don't feel great. Mm. You know, like, what's going on? Where did it come from? Mm-hmm. And s- it's hard to think about where our relationship would be without these walks. They've been super foundational for s- so many years now. From when we... Uh, even the very, very beginning. We used to walk around- I remember at- Redwood City at some point, um, I had read some sort of article about how, like, when you walk with people, um, like something about having a shared common goal and being able to move your body as you're, as you're, um, talking things aloud helps to set you up to be on, on the ride together. Mm. Um, and just, like, you know, working with the energy of a conversation, so if it gets pretty tense, you're not just, like, sitting in place hoping that you don't end up, like, so overstimulated and frazzled. Um, and for us, it's just been- Yeah, just an, a foundational part of, of our relationship together. And so during today's walk, I was telling Kevin that I had woken up this morning after having kind of a difficult night's sleep, and, um, and one, one of the chapters I'm in right now is on really recognizing how loud the negative self-talk can be when I don't feel like every little thing is in alignment with my values. And, um, you know, I'll wake up at, like, 3:00 in the morning, and my, my mind will just keep going. And I also wanna, uh, acknowledge that severe rumination can be a part of ADHD symptoms- Hmm which, uh, I, I do have, a little neurospicies. Um, but yeah, I just... You know, and, and being at the point of, of my growth journey that I'm, I'm at, it's no longer a situation where I don't see it. It's like, it's almost like the volume has been turned up because I'm now at the point where my ego is losing the war between my ego and, and my soul, my higher purpose. Yeah And, um, and I've, I, I can now embrace those parts of me that, that, um, hold on- Mm-hmm to the familiar, and yet they just get so unbelievably loud. So that was keeping me up last night, was just, like, navigating, um, a, a challenging conversation and just thinking through how I was gonna do it. And then I woke up this morning in kind of this, like, funk, and I... I- you know, it's like, because the voice gets pretty loud, um, n- like, when I'm really in that funk like I was this morning, which doesn't happen all the time. Like, I think this morning was kind of a, a rare moment, combined with, like, the stress of a travel, like, a trip I'm about to go on, couple hours. Like, there's just, there's a lot of, a lot of pieces that have- Mm-hmm stacked. Um, but- Yeah, just like waking up this morning kind of in a funk, and like knowing that I'm in a funk. And, um, and so, you know, I was kind of in that zone, and you had come downstairs, uh, after one of your meetings, and we were kind of chatting and exchanging pleasantries, I would say. But, you know, we're, we're usually pretty sweet with each other. Mm-hmm. Um, I feel like our morning interactions in particular, like they're usually pretty excited if we haven't seen each other before we both start our day. And I was clearly just in my own head. Mm-hmm. And I know you could feel it, too. And I was not about to, like, just, uh, self-betray by, like, not feeling what I was feeling. Like, I knew I needed to just, like, go through it. And in hindsight, I, I could have just told you that, but I wasn't quite there yet. And, um, and so anyway, so, you know, you came downstairs. There wasn't really much addressed, and then you went back upstairs to your meeting. Mm-hmm. Well, you shared some of what you went through over the night. Mm. And you brought me along for, like, some of the thoughts that you were ruminating on and how it was challenging. So I had some context on- Mm what you were feeling, what you went through the night before, how you didn't get a lot of sleep, and how that- Yeah you know, it played into what you were feeling. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And then, yeah, so a couple hours pass, and, uh, we come downstairs, and, like, at this point, I have, you know, done my inner work. I've had discussions with my inner child. I've done a little bit of meditating. I went to the gym. I ran a couple errands. You know, I had a, a, a coaching call with one of my clients, and so I was just feeling in a pretty different state. And so yeah, so you and I went for a walk, and we had a conversation about how we handled the morning. Mm-hmm. And I, I shared a little bit more about what I had been going through. Rewinding back to the part in the morning where you were sharing some of what was going on. I felt myself start to get a little bit, like, nervous, 'cause I could see that you were in a funk, and I wasn't sure what that was gonna mean. And I could feel this pull of, like, wanting to sit down and talk about it with you and, like, wanting to help. But I could also feel, like, my anxiety was fluttering in that sense. And I had a super busy day, so I ultimately was like, "Hey, I've gotta run to a meeting," and you were like, "Okay." And then I went up, and then it was like four or five hours later before we really got to actually see each other for any meaningful moment. Um, and then so we go on this walk, and one of the things that I think was interesting was, yes, definitely recognizing you had... You, you felt in a much different place, and it was cool to see, you know, the different things that you had done throughout the day that were good for you. And it was a great reminder of how my anxiety so many times in our relationship has been like, "Oh, you're feeling some type of way." It's not about you and me Like, there wasn't an issue between you and me, but it would turn into an issue between you and me- Mm because I would try and, like, help, and you could just feel my, like, needy, nervous energy sort of trying to latch on or be there, and then I'm looking for a little bit of validation. And I know you would just, like, feel this repulsion of just, "I can't deal with it." And then we would start arguing and fighting, and we never actually got to work through what you were going through. Mm-hmm. And so it was interesting to have a little buffer of, like, "Hey, I've got meetings coming up." I went and did my thing, was working, and then we came back, you feeling in a much different place. And such a great reminder that, like, sometimes the best thing is just to spend a little time by ourselves doing our own thing, rather than trying to jump in and help or support or try and fix what's going on for your partner or for you. One of the things that you're, that you're talking about here is, like, so I'm feeling something, and I have big feelings or, like, you can feel that the energy's off. Mm-hmm. And then you come in, and then you have feelings about my feelings. And the desire to help, I mean, like, it's so interesting because when we really look at it, like, because we have that people-pleasing tendency, like, People pleasing is actually less about them and more about our needs to stay safe. Like, if you can tame my emotions, then you feel better. Mm-hmm. And that would... Like, I would read that in a heartbeat, like, you know, especially when I would be feeling something really hard, and you would come in, and, and I would feel your energy kinda, like, size me up and figure out how you needed to be in order to try to help me and make me feel better so you could feel better. And, and it just, like, it just read as inauthentic. Mm-hmm. And it read as though you had used my grief, pain, whatever it was, as, like, an excuse to get validation And again, that's, it was never your intention. Mm-hmm. And I also, I, I have done this in our relationship as well. But, um, I feel like the, the main difference that, and, like, the, our biggest point of evolution as a couple, I think just overall, has been this clear prioritization of our own needs, and really seeing our external reality. And even, like, you know, when you come downstairs and you see me, and then you start to get a little frazzled, it's less about, like, how do I help her, and more about, like, what do I need to feel safe personally. Mm-hmm. And, and I feel like every situation kind of gives us that opportunity to tune back into ourselves and be like, "Okay, what, what is it that this situation is telling me about my needs?" Like, we, we may call them triggers, but really it's like, what is this life activation? What is this thing that's happening in my situation telling me about a part of me that's looking for something? Yes. I feel like triggers can be an invitation. Mm-hmm. Where for this experience in particular, it's like in between one of my meetings, I sat for a little bit, and I recognized that I had a underlying belief, and it comes from just, like, growing up, of, like, if other people were feeling off or moody or something like that, even if it had nothing to do with me, um- sooner or later, that energy would be directed at me. Mm. And, like, the anger, and it would turn into frustration and anger at me, and so then I would become the problem. So it was this sort of bracing feeling of like, "Ooh, hold on. I feel like you're feeling some type of way." Mm. If I can tiptoe this perfectly, whatever you're feeling won't get pointed at me. Yeah. Yeah. And that way, if I manage you and you feel better, I have now dodged what could be a catastrophe. And so I went and sat with that and had my own moment with that where it was like, "Oh," and I was feeling significantly better. Mm-hmm. And then even on the walk, you brought up something that was a little challenging, too, and I had a lot of capacity to be able to hear you 'cause I'm not still dealing with that same worry or wound, 'cause I worked through some of it. So you brought something up. We had a little conversation, and it was like, "Oh, great. Okay." And it just became a much better experience because of that. And you also went off and did all of the things that you needed to do for yourself. One person can absolutely make an impact on a dynamic- Mm but it takes two people to sustain it. Yeah. Yeah, completely agree. Completely agree. You know, uh, what you said in terms of, like, that pattern that you were afraid to play out in our relationship, I, I hear that. I see that, and also, I, I have, I have the, a similar wound. Um, but I think the wound that got activated in this, in this play out of, of our pattern was that my feelings never felt like, like th- never felt like there was enough space for my feelings. Like, you know, everyone in my nuclear household had really big feelings, and where I learned my place was, was in being agreeable or being so perfect or, like, similar to you, managing other people's, like, um, hi, you know, providing co- like, comic relief- Mm-hmm or entertaining or distracting or whatever. And, um, and it just never really felt like there was space for me to have my feelings, and I am a big feeler. Like, and over the years, I've come to see that as one of my strengths, like my intuition, like how I can feel into a room. But when you're young and you have big feelings and there's no room for them, it's like, you know, I, like, if I'm crying about something or if I'm feeling worried about something and having a parent be like, "Well, I'm sad, too," or k- kind of competing in some sort of way with my emotions- It was just hard to know what to do with that, because if me confessing my sadness is leading to a parent feeling their sadness in a bigger way, then in my child brain, that means, well, like, then stop feeling so big. Start moving toward the things that actually help people to feel better, that help you to be more accepted. And so I went down this, like, super long path of, like, overachievement and just trying to give a win to other people just so that way they would feel proud of me. And again, it like, it all came from that, that deeper wound of just feeling like who I was and what I was going through that like was too, too big for the container I was in. Um, and so I feel like it's been such a big reclamation of our self-love to like sit back and honor what we really need. For you to decide to go to your meetings, of course, like, but you left a couple minutes before your meetings intentionally. I did. And n- the, you know, that's- Mm-hmm that's okay. I think in, in the future, like an ideal way for us both to deal with it would be like for me, you know, if I see you come downstairs and just to let you know, "Hey, I'm moving through something, but I, it's not the time for us to talk about it." Or like, "I'm moving through something and I need more time to process it through." Mm-hmm. And then ideally for me, it would be great if you were just like, "Hey, I know we haven't addressed this. I wanna make sure I show up in the best way I can when we do. I, um, I need to tend to myself first." Mm-hmm. Yeah. 'Cause I feel like that, like that conversation, like, I mean, it's like we're taking what, what is already so good and we're like kicking it up a notch. 'Cause- Yeah. But I see how those little tweaks too, 'cause it's like, uh, I left the conversation was this morning. You shared some of the things. It got a little awkward- Mm in the room. I found myself like pacing back and forth in the kitchen- to like try and find something to do, henchman turning wrench. Yeah. Uh, and then I was like, "I have a meeting coming up in like 20 minutes." Yeah. "I'm gonna go prepare for that meeting." You didn't say 20 minutes. You were like, "I have a meeting coming up. I have to go." I know. I deliberately didn't tell you that part. Yeah. That's okay. I mean, like again. Um, but I came out to you and I was like, "Hey, I'm gonna go prepare for my meeting," and then I left. So there was like a micro communication, but it's very different to what you're pointing out where, um, I know you've shared this so much of like the delivery matters. Mm-hmm. Where it's like if you can just say- Mm "Hey, this hasn't been addressed. We'll get to it. I'm gonna do my thing," it lets you know, like, I'm aware of the situation. Mm-hmm. There's a reason I'm going over and doing this. It's ultimately so I can show up better, giving you some space, but it's not in a way of just like, let me just- Right slide out of the room. And for me, like, you know, es- especially with the wound I just highlighted, it's like it helps me to feel received in my big feeling, not like you are squished out of the room necessarily. Um- Oh, yeah, I can see that you know, like, "Hey, I, I wanna acknowledge that this is here, and this is still you, and, and th- it's okay for you to be this, but I, I need, I have some things I need to do." Mm-hmm. "So that way I can like hold all of what you're working with." Mm. 'Cause like, you, you know what I mean? Like- Absolutely. I totally see that, yeah. And, and I mean, also, like- I feel like to not come down and need to solve it, need to solve whatever problem it is that I'm working on, it's, as much as sometimes it's hard to not go at the problem as it's in real time, I feel like there is, there's work that we need to do on our own sometimes before we can come back together. There, there's just breath I need to take outside of this relationship. Like, what I'm starting to learn as I get older is getting outside and doing something outside of the containers of this household is so good for me to just jazz up the energy and the energetic space that I'm carrying. Mm-hmm. You know? And going to the gym and moving my body and being intentional with that, and just seeing how I talk to myself while I'm at the gym, and letting myself step into a different mental state without feeling like I have to be forced to get there 'Cause that's just, it's just the worst to be feeling something and then have somebody come in and, like, be so uncomfortable with their own emotions that they can't hold space for yours, and that's Just feels icky. Yeah. Yeah, and you're like, "God, I just wanna..." Like, it's, it wasn't even about you. Yeah. And somehow you've made it about you. And it's such a well-meaning thing to do, like so, like, we, you know, it's still a habit that I check myself on sometimes. Yeah. And it- This happened this morning. Yeah. I mean, it l- Like, I was speaking for me personally. It was like, yeah, it's still going on sometimes. Like, it happened this morning. It's so hard. It's so... 'Cause it's like you see someone in pain. Mm-hmm. And so much of our societal programming is like, "Oh, I could take your pain away," and it's like, how about no? What if we just embrace the idea that pain is information, and that there is new information that's flooding through your body that maybe you haven't figured out how to sit with? And what if I just sit with you instead? Mm-hmm. And what if I ask some questions and I stay curious and I hold you, or I ask you how I can show up for you? And we, we don't make it about solving anything. We just make it about, like, how do I, how do I share my nervous system to make this the safest possible place- Yeah as you're going through something uncomfortable? Yeah, be present with whatever's there. Mm-hmm. And I think the presence is what helps actually ultimately dissolve something. But again, it's not the point to dissolve it. It's just to see it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Whatever it is. Well, if you don't allow yourself to feel it, you'll never actually pass through. And I think that that's where a lot of people get stuck, is that they have this big emotion that they're afraid to feel or this big feeling or this big thought or belief that they're afraid to actually articulate and let out. And in pulling the thread, you start to get more clarity on what's going on for you, and it may take you deeper into the emotion you're trying to avoid. Mm-hmm. But in going deeper, you have a chance to actually, like, really explore it, stay curious with it, be compassionate with it. And then in, in a couple of minutes, the intensity will lift. But you'll never get to that feeling if you always shy away from it. Mm-hmm. It just becomes this, like, massive boulder that you're trying to hide in your pocket, acting like it doesn't weigh you down. Yeah. And I think it's, um, it's also an interesting exercise, too, 'cause there's, there's an element of if you don't even know what your problem is- Mm what you're going through, you just know it doesn't feel good, and then your partner's doing something that irritates you, it's a lot of expectation to put on your partner. So much expectation, whereas, like, if you were just to take that moment and sit with yourself and figure out you can actually move through this thing on your own- You can figure out what it is. You can sit with yourself and come out the other side and then share that journey with your partner. That's beautiful, and your partner can do the same thing. Mm-hmm. Um, but I feel like from my end too, there was a lot of not knowing what I was feeling, feeling angst, and then wanting you to help me solve it, but without communicating to you that that's what I wanted or giving you any sort of insight that that's what I was looking for. So it was just this angst, and then I would get frustrated with you not showing up in a way that I had in my head that never shared with you, and it was a losing battle from the start