ACTIVISM, But at What COST? (Episode 1 | Segment 2:)

Sister 2 Sister Podcast | Episode 1 (Segment 2): Funding, Power & the Future of Women led Movements

What happens when the people closest to the problem are the furthest from the resources?

In this second segment of Episode 1 of the Sister 2 Sister Podcast, hosts Valerie Loloju and Godano Yussuf continue their conversation with women's rights leader Domtila Chesang, turning the spotlight on one of the biggest challenges facing movements today: funding, partnerships, and power.

Together, they unpack the realities of navigating donor expectations, the imbalance between grassroots organizations and larger institutions, and why sustainable, trust-based partnerships are essential for lasting social change. The conversation challenges traditional funding models while exploring what it truly means to invest in women-led movements—not just through projects, but through long-term support, trust, and shared leadership.

This is an honest conversation about who gets funded, who gets left behind, and what must change if we are serious about advancing the rights of women and girls across Africa.

Sister 2 Sister Podcast is a flagship storytelling and advocacy platform of the Sister to Sister Initiative by African Women's Rights Advocates (AWRA), amplifying the voices, experiences, and leadership of women and girls across the continent.

✨ For Us, By Us.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

So many girls I have taken to school. I have over 300 girls that I'm we are supporting at the moment. That I don't I didn't I didn't I didn't use uh uh donors uh funding to take them to school. Funders need to know that um uh ending FGM for grassroots organizations and activists is not a project. Programs have failed because of how they were designed without the community in mind. You come to the community, you implement, you never consulted. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 0:49

So we've really we've really spoken about uh what the journey of activism looks like, what it looks like to work in the community, what it looks like to dip into our pockets, into our physical and emotional labor. Um but the picture is bigger, yes. We do have the elephants in the in the room, and this is always so funny to me because I can't tell you guys how many times people have told me, Val, why don't you just start an organization and then write a proposal? It's not that easy and then get funding and all of that. But the truth of the matter is there's two sides to this work. There's the work that happens in the community, and then there's the work that happens at the global level. Often than not, uh where the financial resources come from. The space has evolved, we are seeing even more resources, human resources, and all of that. But what do you think uh global donors misunderstand about grassroots work and how change comes to be?

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Yeah, so I'm glad we are we've transitioned from the the actual work on the ground to now what um happens at a global level where decisions are made and discussions, conversations around communities are had without the communities, sadly. So what donors misunderstand, what donors misunderstand um um often is that um what they see as change or as impact is the same. Uh is the same as what the community experiences on the ground. And that is the problem. That's where we are missing the point. Because when a funder uh commits to invest in ending FGM or a donor, uh, and then they have their sort of like um uh style of you know what they want to see or what they want to achieve. Uh but the community who are sort of like the people that are being targeted are not involved, are not consulted many times. So somebody just wakes up and says, I want to put money into FGM, like a government entity, for example, I want to put money into ending FGM, and then this money is going to waste Pocoat County. And then the people of West Pocote, well, they're doing FGM, but have they been consulted? You know, sometimes I talk about a baseline survey cannot give you like uh a roadmap on ending FGM. Uh so this the funder will be expecting, they have been, they have, they have laid down all the practical uh you know expectations or the or the systems or whatever you want to call it on how to collect or how to harvest impact and and and information, but that is not what the community wants or how they want it. Because a funder has timelines, a funder has a budget, a funder has a style that he wants this because they dictate. It's their mind they dictate what they want to see or what they want to achieve at the end of this all. But who are you working with? So if you if I want to work with you today as well, and I have I have the funding, I have an agenda, I am an activist, then I am having you as the beneficiary. But I am not considering why am I even uh like selecting you as the beneficiary? And are you feeling the same way? Uh, we do we have shared, you know, uh uh uh goals on this is the impact we want to achieve. Well, we might want to end FGM together, but what do you want to see at the end of your project as a funder? You want to see uh impact report that says 20 girls were rescued from FGM. You want to see an impact report that says that uh 5,000 people were trained, but does that translate to change for the community? It doesn't. Critical question.

SPEAKER_06 4:34

Yeah. And I definitely agree with you because it's one thing to have, it's one thing to read about the violence of female genital mutilation. It's another thing to actually be in the community and listen to them, not actually agree with you that it's violence against women. And I know that changes the whole conversation from how we look at it as outsiders and the people who are inside. Because we often say, if you asked the community right now, could you name top three problems? FGM wouldn't even be one of them.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

Ask me. I did a study. Yes, I am from West Pocot. I am from the Pocot community, I speak the language, I understand and the cultures. Yeah, but I I at some point I did um I took my hat off, my activism hat off, and I put my researcher hat on, working in partnership with the King's College and the Five Foundation. I went back to my own community where I had been working for about seven years to just sit and listen. Yeah I was shocked, I was surprised. And this is me from that community. So still miss uh acknowledging that I missed out on some areas, but now imagine somebody who is not even from that community. How much more have they missed out in their plans, in their strategies, in their projects? So going back to my community and actually documenting the stories, like the real-time stories by the community, lived experiences, by the people, none of them say it was violence. I have the reports out online, yeah, exploring the persistence of FGM uh by Dom Tila. So none of them said FGM was violence. So it's they will never say that. So for you to sit and say FGM is violence, it is okay. And that is the right thing to say. I'm not disputing that. We have to call it what it is. It is violence against women and girls, it's a form of gender-based violence. But we also have to understand what the community calls it. Yeah. So we can be able to speak their language.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

And and it's so it's so it's so nice that you you've said that you personally, because again, you have the experience of working on ground, you have the experience of being in this community, of knowing the patterns and what the community does, but also coming back and sitting as a researcher and saying, okay, the work that I have been doing has yes moved, but also there is this different way that this conversation looks like. It's so interesting just to hear that, right? Yeah but something else. Anytime I go to a meeting, especially inception meetings when a donor is funding and you're going to an inception meeting, there is always this segment for sustainability. You're always told uh how is how how this project is going to be sustained over time once financing reduces? We have seen that this year and a bit of last year how financing has reduced. But you hear that, like, how will you be sustainable? But then that is all that you're taught, but you're not taught how to be sustainable. So for you, and having done this work for 10 years, how does sustainable activism look like for Dom Taylor?

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Um I have I have had that conversation with myself because I I want to point out that being a grassroots or a frontline activist is sustainable. It's sustainability on itself on itself. Yes. Because you are based there. Yes, with or without funding, I was doing this work. Yeah, you know, people I will still host people in my house and I will feed them using my resources. That was sustainability. Yeah, yeah. There was no funding. There were so many times where we didn't have funding. There was like a gap here in months where there was no funding. So I I want that conversation to be had that grassroots organizations are in itself like sustainability.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Already sustainable.

SPEAKER_03 8:22

They are already sustainable because they live there. Yeah. You know, they'll be hosting girls in their houses. They'll be taking girls to school. I have so many girls I have taken to school. I have over 300 girls that I'm we are supporting at the moment. That I don't I didn't I didn't I didn't use uh uh donors uh funding to take them to school. All I had to go to do was just go to the school, speak to the principal, and then come back and resource mobilized from maybe my friends. You know? So sustainability is I don't know, I don't understand. It's still part of what donors are not getting. Yeah, because people sit in a room and uh they have they might have good intentions. Yes. I don't say, and I can never say that people have bad intentions. People have good intentions, but they are just they're just not getting it right because they are not involved in the people that are that they're going to implement their programs with or on, you know, in this community. So the best way to do for donors, I will advise that right now, which is not 20 years ago. We are living at a time where we have women like ourselves who have, you know, done research, women who have done advocacy, women who have done activism, women who have like evidence, real-time evidence that uh can be used, that can be we can partner with you know to uh design programs, yeah, you know, to implement programs instead of still using the approach that was used uh 20 years ago and expecting you know new results, it will not happen.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yeah, and that's the what you've said is very true that um sustainability is not for grassroots organization, it's the the resource is yourself and the community you've created in making sure that this triple effect is there. So I totally agree that for grassroots advocates, especially women grassroot advocates, the sustainability is already there. We just need the a little bit of the tweaking and the add-on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:12

No, I I I really like that. I've I've never I wrote on my newsletter about sustainability. Oh, yes, you did. Yes, uh sustainability being a scum, right? And now that you've added this as a point, I don't know, guys. I'm about to do the condition of my newsletter and add that grassroots uh activists on their own. You know, just the same way we look at government and we say that you know, all the in the sustainability conversation, government comes up, we see that government is a is a sustainability plan because they are always there. Then why don't we look at activists the same?

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Activists even even grassroots organizations. Yes. I know and I've seen and have witnessed even today, there's so many grassroots organizations that are just keeping their work going with the living with the USID, living living and the big organizations who keep asking about the sustainability.

SPEAKER_06 11:05

What about what down the the drain immediately when funding was cut? Yeah, because that's a very good thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

At the end of the day, um, what you've said is true. Like, for example, Dom Tila is in this community West Pocot, right? You already know the head teacher of a school, you already know someone who's already in the community, and you can always tell them, I have two girls who are in the risk of this, can they come and stay in school for this long? And you're always because of the social capital of you being Dom Tila and you being a person who's already helping the community, people are always open to doing these favors for you, and that's the sustainability itself. So that should be an untapped market in the conversation of sustainability for grassroots organizations. How do we harness that power of already the relationship? And it's something also that you've said before. Um the community we are building, the friendships, the relationships that are around us is a form of sustainability. It's a resource, it's a sustainability model.

SPEAKER_06 12:07

I think this is very important. This is a very important conversation. And I know the people that are going to be listening to this are millions of grassroots and organizations and women activists who have had to answer that question on sustainability over and over again. And I think even when they listen to this, it will be now um ringing in their minds, like, wow, um, I've never really looked at it like that. And um, now that we're talking about sustainability and and funders and donors and what this whole um landscape looks like, we are moving towards the conversation of shared power, right? Because grassroots women and grassroots organizations and frontline activists are saying, you know what, we've realized the kind of influence that we have when it comes to change and impact, right? So, um what would you say meaningful partnership looks like? And partnership that has shared power, what would that look like in an ideal world?

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Um yeah, I was just thinking as you were speaking, I was reflecting on something. Sorry, I I I took a break for a moment. Uh and I was just thinking how people need funders need to know that um ending FGM for grassroots organizations and activists is not a project. It's not a project that you sit down and design. Yeah. I told you my story. Did I sit down to design? Did I sit down to organize now? It's a process. Yeah. You know, it's it's a process. So it's not a project where you have to ask about sustainability. I'm taking you back to sustainability. You have to ask because it is there, it is in the pipeline. You know, it's not drifting away, it's not like uh uh falling, you know, or on the side. So uh but partnership uh for me, meaningful partnership is just having that acknowledgement that you have the funny, the funding, you have the money, you are the funder, for example. But you cannot implement you, you cannot use your money to to benefit you yourself. Yeah, because already the fact that you have a community in mind, that is your partner. So recognizing that community as a partner is the first stage. Yeah, because you you can have today, you can have okay, what's the best example? You can have um even a teacher, you have the knowledge, but you need the subjects. Yes, you need the students. Yeah, so even as a founder, you have the funding, but you need the ground, you need a community, you need a target, you need a you need like beneficiaries. So, but I think for me, I'm I'm really trying to say that we need to move away from beneficiaries, my women, my girls, my this, blah, blah, blah. You know, let's look at people as people, yeah, because their agenda is yours. Well, they their problem is theirs, but their gender is yours. So if you if you look at it from that point and say, okay, I cannot uh go to a certain community and and act as if I know it all. You know nothing about people's cultures and people's lifestyle and people's you know uh way of life, you must come from the point of I I I'm just an expert as a researcher, for example. But you are an expert with 10 years of experience working in your community, yeah, you are an expert. So being able to acknowledge that expertise and not looking at expertise only as somebody who went to school.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Exactly. And even um just to add on before you before you lose your thought, um also that uh power dynamic of thinking that grassroots advocates are lesser than an expert or a researcher who's coming as a funder. I'm an expert in my community. That is my that is what I bring to the table. That is not telling me as a as a grassroots level we are giving you money. No, you you're bringing the money, but me, I'm bringing my experience, I'm bringing my community, I am bringing my talents. Relationships. Yes, and I'm bringing my my vast experience in this conversation and in this community that you want to invest in. And this is my my what I bring to the table. So as much as your money is very valuable in this table, as a grassroots advice advocate, also, my time and my experience is also equally as valuable as that money. Because without that money, there is no conversation at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Without that expertise, yeah, without this expertise, yeah, because you see, many projects have failed. And this is also where I laugh. Yeah, not a bad, not in a bad, not in a malicious way. But malicious. Normalies. But I love because many projects have failed, big projects, big time, they have failed. Yeah, but uh big organizations, many times they are given a second chance. They're given second chances to reconvene, to rewrite, to redesign. Yeah, but make a mistake as a fast-ruged activist. One single mistake. Yes, we told you they are incompetent, they don't have the capacity. Yes, they do not have they don't have what it takes to hold this money. Yeah, you know, that is what happens because from the word go, you never really believe in this person as an equal partner. Yeah, you saw them like you put it, yeah, less. Yeah, and and I think we've been saying this over and over again. That's why I mentioned that people need to look at activists when they need to look, watch this uh podcast. This is the women who are sharing when yeah we went to school. These are women who have who have papers, yeah, these are people with you know, like uh uh degrees, you know, people who can who can hold conversation, people who can debate, people can speak on behalf of their communities. Not because I think people need to, someone need to go and rub that the perception notion that uh a grassroots activist is just some very poor woman sitting under a tree and they don't know what is right for them. And the programs have failed. Projects have failed not because of grassroots activists, programs have failed because of how they were designed without the community in mind. You come to the community, you implement, you never consulted. Yeah, they will fail. And part of why we are still here today is because we got it wrong from the beginning. Yeah, because and and programs have also quote unquote succeeded, but according to the funder. Yes, you're touching someone, not according to the community, yeah, because you find a funder has like perfect close, they are close out uh forums, you know, uh uh numbers launching this report, then numbers beautiful. I was a success, I've been to forums, my guys. I've been to meetings where I just sit and like this is for you. Well, you have yes, you believe. You've achieved you've achieved it, but you've done it for you. The community remains the same. Yeah, the money has gotten it. Funders need to think about um like uh when we are talking about impact. I I I wrote uh I wrote something actually before sometimes. Um who defines what impact looks like looks like mic drop.

SPEAKER_06 19:15

What do they say? Are you not genzy enough? No, but but that that was such a strong finish and in its own way a call to action for donors and funders who genuinely and intentionally would want to steer the wheel in a different way when it comes to um meaningful partnerships with grassroots organizations and frontline activists when it comes to steering the wheel differently, when it comes to how they look at shared power. And I'm really hoping that this is able to start a conversation either in our comment sections or in your own specific spaces because the conversation has begun even before we've spoken about it, but this is a very great way to uh restart the conversation again. And I'm really hoping that this moves uh the block from where we are right now, such that the next time we're having this conversation, we can hear someone say, you know, the last time I listened to the S2S podcast, I was able to challenge one of the donors or two of the donors that are currently uh funding us.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

This is just to echo to a lot of the grassroots organizations that you are allowed that autonomy and that power to question your donor. Sometimes the imbalance in power it really shows. But for us to pick up that imbalance, we really need to ask those questions of you're not telling me what to do. We are collectively deciding what we are doing. Yes, you've come with your your quote-unquote ROI, what you need from this project, but I can tell you that how you want to go will not feed my community or will not move my community forward, and it's what we always need. We we need as grassroots organizations, and I hope even for us as we sit here, that that's the conversation that we bring to our donors on the table on how to bring this discussion.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Yeah, honesty.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah, but just telling them by the way, yeah, you want us to give people bread, but maybe bread is not what the community needs. Maybe this is what the community needs from this, because there is always that imbalance in the world.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

And that requires that you do it collectively. Yeah, the only way we can win uh this together is by working together.

SPEAKER_06 21:48

Yes, because if one person decides to pick the funding and the rest of us say no, no, they don't still just go with that one person, yes, and also a call to to frontline activists. And grassroots organization to truly believe that they are enough. Yeah. The way they are, as you said.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

You go gaps of months. And I think they're enough. But at the same time, something very critical that I like where I sit right now and what I what I preach today is that to remind grassroots activists that they matter. Like you don't have to disappear for your community to be saved, or to forget to be protected. So I really, really I'm speaking very boldly about that, that please we need you before the work. And you can never win if you do this alone. Or don't doubt yourself. Because one of the things that I don't know whether I said, but I need to say is that every single day you'll go back to your house, you're feeling you've done so much, you are exhausted. You know, you are drained. But at the end of the day, again, you still feel like there's so much that needs to be done. So there's a need for us to really unpack that and to even define that. We need more time and more uh avenues and more uh ways of how do we describe that feeling, yeah, whereby you are you have done so much, but you still feel like a lot still needs to be to be done. That kills activists, yeah, because it it it it gives you like a short-lived sense of uh satisfaction, but the next minute it's reminding you. Yeah, so you're you're you're constantly in the in the in the high on the move, yeah, trying to follow that. So there's no moment for you to just sit and and appreciate, to just sit and and and and and and and uh and up and and celebrate your uh your your your milestones. There's no moment for for you to do that. That's why when I read um a Faith Mongi, Dr. Faith Mongi's Power Um LinkedIn post the other day where she was reminding leaders. And for me, every time somebody talks about it, I'm I'm thinking about grassroots activists, yeah, because they are leaders, and I I saw what she wrote and I felt it so deep, and I've it's it really made so much sense. Yeah. Because every time when you have that uh one minute just to sit and chill and just like breathe, you you're feeling like you want you have to you need to be doing something. You need to be doing something. So for us activists uh working at the grassroots, you are almost conditioned to see trust as a waste of time.

SPEAKER_06 24:50

Yeah, rest is important, and um you've touched on well-being, and one of the things that you've reminded activists is that they also need to take care of themselves and part themselves on the back, recognize that the work that they are doing is truly making a difference, and yes, you cannot save the whole world in a day, that we still need you. So um could you give us just one other tip, especially to the frontline activists, another way to take care of themselves without necessarily being overwhelmed with the guilt of I'm not doing enough? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

First of all, I think I will say that for you to offer yourself, for you to be that person, you know, to choose to be that person that will stand up in your community to say something. It doesn't really matter how many people had it. You are already doing something. Yeah, you are changing your community because it takes one person, just one bold person, to call out an injustice. Just calling out an injustice is something.

SPEAKER_05 25:58

Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

So I feel like we have sort of like set um set ourselves up for like really difficult uh tasks so that when you don't achieve them, you see yourself as a failure. And the other thing is that we also want to compare ourselves with maybe like big NGOs, they have built schools, yeah, they have done this, they have big cars, they have done this, they have done that. So I think for me, uh self-care first of all starts by acknowledging that you you are you are you're brave, you know, you are doing something for your community, and not everybody is doing it. Because why why why don't we have like 20 people in your village doing that while how comes it's just you? That is already something. So just appreciating that however small it is, that is something. Yeah, you have done something. And I think one thing that Madam uh the CEO and TFGM board has continued to remind us and me personally, is that don't beat yourself too much. Please pat yourself on the back. Yeah, which we don't do. Yeah, we don't do because we always feel like we have to prove a point, we have to show the funders, we have to keep going, we have to really throw ourselves in there. However, hard it uh uh it is, we have to keep doing, you know, doing this. But what I want to remind people and activists especially is that you don't have to do, you don't have to kill yourself. Yeah, please don't kill yourself. I almost did that. And I thank God because I found people that at that moment where I was going down and people reminded me, they didn't just remind me, but they reminded me, but they also gave me an opportunity. Yeah, they gave me a second chance, is what I'll say. So that's why I'm very I am very committed to not just preaching, but also supporting, showing people the way that okay, this is how you this is what you're not supposed to do. Yeah, but this is what you can do.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Oh and you you you've really um mentioned you've had the highest of highs and the lows of lows. And uh sometimes we forget, we really don't know how low those lows are, guys.

SPEAKER_03 28:09

Those lows sometimes are really I feel like I haven't even expressed it the way I am written to dwell there because I think for me it's because I I I chose this this is personal, I chose to dwell on the positive. Yeah, and if if anybody asks me today why am I still even here, it is because when I look, I have so many girls in the university today. Yeah, that I'm I sit down and I'm like, oh, you are there yourself, so don't you help me? Like just the fact that there's a girl in the university that was never cut, that will never be cut, that will never cut her daughters, that will be educated, that will speak up for herself.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yeah, the advancement in the community is something to um be amazed about, right? Literally just answering our question on what is your hope, what continues to give you hope after 10 years that really just answers it.

SPEAKER_06 29:02

Yeah, you're saying all those girls, every single girl that has gone to school, has gotten an education, did not go through the cut, will not cut their daughters, means that for every single generation of these women, FGM is going to be a very distant conversation. And the other thing is we with this kind of ripple effect, it means that at least a good number of these girls are gonna go back and become activists themselves because of the story and everything that happened to them. In one way or another, yeah. There's a number of domtillas out there that are you've sprouted them, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Yes, so there is you've left footprints at every point in this conversation. But also just to bring you back a bit to something that you've talked about is there is a lot of shared pain around the lows and even the highs, because sometimes the the route to which you got to the high had a lot of thorns that have scarred you. How do you think how is healing looking like for you? And especially in terms of the people who have uplifted you during those low times?

SPEAKER_03 30:14

I was very ready for um uh healing is a process, and healing needs to happen like uh uh on an ongoing basis. Uh, it's not like a one-time thing, but I will say for healing to happen, we must hold each other each other's hand. We must uh you know hold space for the other person. We must give each other grace. And that's why this initiative is so important, very, very important and very dear to my heart, because uh you cannot expect uh some an external uh person or force to come and uh hold your hand and you can even hold your sister's hand, you know, for a start. So for me, I feel like healing healing comes from the word from the word, like you say, shared pain. If we share the same pain, if we share the same challenges, then surely we should be able to share that healing. You know, by coming together and sharing our stories and just sitting uh down and you know, holding each other's hand and reminding each other that this work matters, but you also matter. Yeah, yeah. That's true.

SPEAKER_06 31:25

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's a big part of the sister to sister movement, which is the bigger eye to the sister to sister podcast. We do have a number of activities under the movement, and I know one of the at its at the core of sister to sister movement is women with similar experiences and similar journeys and shared pain coming together and patting each other on the back and healing together and holding space um for each other, and I think that's that's very, very um important.

SPEAKER_03 32:03

It is yeah, recommendable because it's also I think I feel like almost in spiritual, it is actually almost spiritual because it's for us by us, yeah. Yeah, and this is a dream come through. Yeah, like we have been making a lot of noise, we have been trying to call out for help, we have been, you know, like uh struggling, and uh and and by the way, I didn't mention the butt but so many people look um gave up. Yeah, so many people that I began this work with, they gave up. Yeah, they went on, and that's good for them. I'm happy, very happy for them. I wish I had that opportunity, but I didn't. Uh but um but then we came back now to this circle to say we have to do something, we we have to do something for us. That's how we came up with for us, by us, yeah, for bo. Yeah, and we're doing it.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah, yeah. I feel like we've had such uh important conversation on the healing and uh the shared pain and sisterhood that we have, right? Uh, my question to you would be if it was 10 years ago, what advice would you have wanted to receive? Because, as for me, guys, I did not receive any advice because I didn't even know I was getting thrusted into activism, right? So, what advice would you give? And I'm just shamelessly also asking for myself to just get this advice.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Um, don't go into it. Okay, get the body. I'm just warning you, I am warning you, but I am saying this is um so 10 years ago, um it's things are different, like 10 years later, 10 years later. So, but what I will tell uh activists, young younger activists, is that please find the purpose, find the purpose why you you want to do this or why you are doing this. Because that is going to be your your weapon. I don't know, like that is going to be your shield. Yeah, that is going to be the only thing that you're going to hold on to when everything else is breaking apart. So find your purpose. Do not be deceived or do not be coerced to get into activism because you are seeing that Dontila is going to Australia. She just came back from New York the other day. No, don't do that. Don't do don't do this because of that. If you want to venture into this work because of that misguided uh impression, please don't do it because you will you will suffer. Yeah, and you will hurt so badly than the person who actually uh is doing this work because of passion, yeah, because of uh personal reason. We have survivors in the space. You know, they're doing this because somebody did this to them, so they're doing this so that they can make sure girls from the same, including their own daughters. So that is the first thing I'll say. Find your purpose, make sure that you are it is the truest reason why you're doing this work. Number two, do this uh knowing that you cannot win alone. Yeah, please let's not compete. Yeah, sisterhood is is more stronger when we join hands, when we join forces, when we collectively call out violence against women and girls. Yeah. Because uh by so doing, by coming together, by reaching out to Godan or talking to Valerie, you know, reading her newsletters, you're learning something, you're connecting. And you know, when you're connected, you can you can move mountains. When you are working together, when you are united, actually, you can move mountains. Yeah, so do not work in isolation. Please don't work in isolation. And please pause when you have to post. There's a time I had to take a break for earlier, 2019. 28, 2019. Yeah. So if you feel like you need to take a break, take that break. But um topmost advice is that don't sit uh with your problems, reach out. Yeah, we now have sisters, yeah. You know, we have the sisterhood that is for all of us. Reach out, talk to someone. You know, call me. I would rather you receive a call from a sister at the middle of the night, you know, saying, I am breaking, I need your help, I need you I need your hug. So let's give each other hugs, as many hugs as we can. You know, so that's what I would say for anybody doing this work, and uh, and then finally um try to also connect with the work that is being done by other people. Connect with that work because that way you are able to learn from their experiences and their mistakes, and you're able to uh uh like uh avoid making the same mistakes because if you don't re if you don't connect, if you don't uh consult, then you are going to fall in the same hole as the other person. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 36:58

That's true. Yeah, um, thank you so much, Tom, for making time and joining us. I know that this particular episode is a great start to the S2S podcast. It really has centered sisterhood, frontline activists, what shared power uh looks like. In another way, we have really provided a tool for a lot of other frontline women activists who have been stuck in one way or another, either stuck on how to um maintain donor relations or stuck on am I really going down the right path? And uh, we really do not take that for granted. And thank you so much to everyone who is tuned in. We're really hoping to see your engagement in the comment section, in the shares, in the testimonials. Please do remember to comment, subscribe, and share our channel.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Thank you. Thank you guys. So lovely to have you very much. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Yeah.