Access to Democracy
Since 1999, Access to Democracy has been a staple of Minnesota television. The program has featured more than 2,000 half-hour interviews with politicians, legislators, judges, academics, athletes, public figures, and everyday residents. Guests often share their expertise and debate with the host.
Access to Democracy
"Minnesota: Still an Exceptional State" - Dane Smith, Journalist and Author
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Host Steve Francisco talks with author and journalist Dane Smith about how, despite claims, Minnesota is not a failing state and the data to prove it.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Access to Democracy. I'm your host, Steve Francisco. Thank you to our sponsors of our program, Recalibra Health, the 45th Parallel Distillery, the Sheridan and Dulas Law Firm, and Truestone Financial. Joining us today is an old friend of ours, our friend Dane Smith, journalist and author, and provocative thinker about all things political and social. Dane Smith, welcome back to Access to Democracy.
SPEAKER_01Good to see you again, Steve. It's always a pleasure to talk to such a knowledgeable interviewer. Thank you for that.
SPEAKER_02I should tell our viewers, you may look familiar to some of them because you were on the program a couple of times last year talking about articles you had written for Min Post, the online newspaper, that were looking back at the issue of reappraising Minnesota, following off from an article long time ago in Time magazine, The Good Life in Minnesota. And basically your series was examining is it still the good life in Minnesota? I think that'd be a fair summary.
SPEAKER_01Yes. What say you? Well, um emphatic yes, this is still one of the best places in America in which to live and to work, especially if you're a working class person. Um if you're not uh an elite, uh if you're not in the 1%, your taxes might be a little higher. Uh or if you're in the one, if you're on 1%, you might be uh taxed a little higher. But in general, the quality of life in this state uh exceeds that of most other states. And it depends on the category, but uh the the evidence is just overwhelming that this is a good place. And and uh more than that, I argue that it's because of progressive public policy over many years that has equalized um opportunity and provided economic security to our people.
SPEAKER_02Let's delve into this in a little more detail. And again, you're you're contending this is not just your opinion that Minnesota is a good state. You actually have some empirical data that backs up this assertion when you compare Minnesota compared to other states on key quality of life indicators, education, access to health care, access to affordable housing.
SPEAKER_01Say more. Yeah. Well, after the reappraising Minnesota series, which was 10 parts, um, I followed that up uh because uh as we're entering a hyper political period here at the midterms, you're you're seeing uh uh just uh too many voices suggesting that Minnesota is in steep decline or that it's a failed state. And this is coming from what I call the MAGA verse, um uh conservatives, Donald Trump, uh this whole pretext of Minnesota as a bad place uh was the reason for the immigration surge or the ice surge and all those uh atrocities that were committed on our state. But it's that the drumbeat of criticism of Minnesota is just um based on falsehood, utter falsehood.
SPEAKER_02You've gone so far as to call it the defamation of Minnesota.
SPEAKER_01Right, and that and that inspired this latest series, it's running in Men Post called The Defamation of Minnesota. Two episodes have run, a third is coming, uh, and maybe more, uh, because I'm I'm on fire with this message. Minnesota is um is the country is facing some serious problems, and a lot of the the uh despair that people feel has has to do with national problems. But Minnesota is actually, despite all this, uh as high or higher than it's ever been on most rankings of anything that counts, socioeconomic condition, economic vitality. Uh the funny thing, I just saw uh a ranking today that says Minnesota is the best place in America for a summer road trip.
SPEAKER_02So uh even at sky-high gas prices.
SPEAKER_01So uh one thing I did was actually compile a lengthy list of rankings. Um my uh uh my article and the latest article in Men Post that summarizes this is like 4,000 words long. Um but here's uh the some of the rankings.
SPEAKER_02And and the headline give us an idea.
SPEAKER_01The headline was Minnesota slash way above average hellhole. We're often, you know, uh uh we're often disparaged as a as a hellhole. Well, the president of the disparages, yeah. Here's just one. We're the only state to rank above average on all eight key indicators of economic and social well-being. The only one of 50 states. We're the most financially literate state, number one. We're number two in a ranking of best state to raise a family. Number two, on the per capita net contributor to the federal government. In other words, we're doing so well that we contribute way more to the federal government than we get back in human service and social security programs.
SPEAKER_02The so-called donor state don't pay more in taxes to the federal government than we take back.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Right. We're number two top medical technology state. We're number two in the states most supportive of people in poverty. And not only are we number two in the most states and most supportive of people in poverty, guess what? We're number three in the lowest poverty rate. We have the third lowest poverty rate. So this argument that all our human services spending is being eaten up by fraud uh is just baloney. Actually, that money helps us achieve the ranking of the third least impoverished state. Um, middle class affordability, not just poor, we're not just a good state for poor people. Middle class affordability for metro areas were ranked number two. Um we uh we're number three in Fortune 500 companies per capita. Um best state to have a baby, number three. Number three, best state for women, number three, best retirement cities. A lot of people don't realize everybody thinks Florida is a better place to retire. If you're wealthy, maybe so. But for for the vast uh number of us in the middle class and and and moderate incomes, Minnesota is actually better because the health care is better. And the access to health care is is a crucial thing for retirement.
SPEAKER_02Um and the quality of life. I mean, let's face it, if you're sick and you don't feel well and you can't see a doctor.
SPEAKER_01Just a few more. Right. Number six, patent uh we're number six in the creation of patents. This is a key indicator of innovation and vitality of uh the creative uh part of our economy. Um we're uh CNBC ranks as top state for business. This refutes a canard and just a uh uh uh a theme that the business lobby has been pounding for decades, that Minnesota's bad for business. It really is not. Um there's a uh uh a group that did a survey of which states are the happiest just based on what people say about whether they're happy. We're number 11. Um the greenest states, with the most, which means uh there's a ranking on environmental quality and climate action efforts. Uh number 11 on uh metropolitan area per capita income. Um I'm just going through the ones where we're top in the top 15. State medium household income, we're at 12th. Uh number 13 on uh healthiest U.S. cities that includes uh Minneapolis and St. Paul. And there's uh dozens more of these. I mean, the evidence is just irrefutable that this is a good place.
SPEAKER_02So I want to go back to a few things you mentioned. An issue that has been all over the news, and I want to hear your rebuttal to this argument. Um, a picture has been painted that Minnesota has been the victim of billions and billions of dollars worth of fraud, particularly in the Medicaid program. Now, to be sure, it's beyond argument, there have been some fraudulent activities here. We had the Feeding Our Future scandal, a person was convicted in that.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Not a Somali person, a white woman who was sentenced to 40 years in prison, as I recall, 41 years. But there have been people in our Somali community who have been implicated in this too. But what do you say to people when they tell you, well, you have this fraud and it's rampant, and they throw out figures that seem kind of hard to believe. I've heard one figure as high as $90 billion. How can that possibly square with what you just said about Minnesotans pay more in taxes than they get back?
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, the issue with that with that uh whole notion that Minnesota is uniquely fraud prone is the lack of context. The uh General Accounting Office, which used to be called General Accounting Office, Government Accountability. Government Accountability Office, uh recently estimated that through the pandemic area over the last five years, all government federal government programs lost about $400 billion a year to fraud. Now, the the outside estimate of how much Minnesota lost might be a billion. This that is a reasonable amount. That leaves about $489 billion in the other states. And if you divide that by the population, it appears that Minnesota has done much better than the United States on overall fraud from government programs. This context is missing completely from the media. And I would like to talk about this more, but it's going to be the subject of my next installment in debunking the defamation of Minnesota, and we can dig deeper in the world. We will look for it there. But I I really intend to deflate the fraud frenzy bubble.
SPEAKER_02And I I want to talk specifically, if we could, about the Medicaid fraud. Now, again, there have been some cases, and something that the critics uh consistently forget is that the Attorney General of the State of Minnesota, Keith Ellison, has actually prosecuted over 60 cases of fraud. So this idea that the state is not prosecuting fraud cases here, that's simply not true. And they're working in cooperation with the U.S. Attorney's Office on these too, aren't they?
SPEAKER_01Another quick fact um uh recent uh survey, uh study by the federal government under Trump has uh shown that Minnesota's um overpayment rate on Medicare and Medicaid is far lower than the national average. We're at about 2 percent, they're at 6 percent. You never see this. I mean, you might see it once in a story, but you don't see it.
SPEAKER_02But the administration has retaliated against Minnesota in a very vindictive way that is actually hurting people with adults with and children with disabilities, people who need these Medicaid services, and when they cut off the money and the state can't meet these needs, the real victims of this become the people who rely on those services. Can't we do both? Can't we root out fraud and at the same time make sure people get access to the services they need?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. We are literally what what this administration is doing is literally throwing the babies out with the bathwater.
SPEAKER_02Dane, hold that thought. We are going to be back in just a moment after this quick word from our sponsors.
SPEAKER_00Access to democracy is made possible thanks to the following organizations Recaliber Health, a new nationwide telehealth platform designed to provide safe and effective health and wellness products at affordable prices, all administered under the direct supervision of expert physicians, nurse practitioners, and physician assistants. Visit RecaliberHealth.com for more information. By Sheridan and Dulos PA, a family and criminal defense law firm that has been serving clients in Dakota County and throughout Minnesota for over 40 years, ranked a Tier 1 best law firm by U.S. News and World Report every year since 2009. Sheridan and Dulos are here to help you in your most difficult life circumstances. Learn more at ssdpa.com. Established in 2007 and based in New Richmond, Wisconsin, 45th Parallel Distillery was among the first 50 micro distilleries in the United States. All aspects of production occur at their facility. If you're interested in learning more about the 45th Parallel Distillery, please check their website and plan a visit to tour their facility and taste their spirits. That's 45th Parallel Distillery.com. And by Truestone Financial, with locations in Minnesota and Wisconsin, it's proudly served as members since 1939. Truestone engages, educates, and supports its members to ensure they have the tools to empower their financial well-being. True Stone Financial, your neighborhood credit union. You can learn more at Truestone.org.
SPEAKER_02And I'm back with our guest today, Dane Smith, journalist and author. We are talking about Minnesota, the quality of life here, the uh rankings where Minnesota comes out in the top rankings across the board on a number of key indicators of quality of life. Dane, uh, we were discussing this.
SPEAKER_01Um so I felt like a lonely voice on this for a while. Um I uh you know, the there was this sort of cornucopia of Minnesota sucks documentaries and propaganda coming at us, mostly from MAGA, but also from some other sources. I think uh pessimism and decline actually sells better than optimism um and uh and and context on problems. Um I so I wrote an op-ed for the Star Tribune that uh was labeled a counterpoint to two other op-eds that had run. And uh the the the uh headline for my counterpoint was it's not really a myth. Minnesota's an exceptional state. And if I could, I'd just like to uh read some summary paragraphs from it. Um I I say that portrayals of our province as a declining or failed state come mostly from the hard right, but also from other directions. And then I actually label some of the articles that I've been seeing lately. Um but then I point out that Minnesota ranked fourth highest among the 50 estates, and then I go through some of the rankings that we just described, and then I I try to make this important point. These rankings are not some myth, they're not fluky outliers, they're not, they're not uh cherry-picking of statistics. They are typical of a half century of exceptionalism for a left-of-center North Star state on most measures of general prosperity and living conditions. This is born this has been borne out ever since that Time magazine article in 1973 that we referenced to begin with. But this is really the most important point. That statistics show that ours is a relatively better place for people in the vast middle income ranks and for those on the lower end of the inequality and affordability crisis, which is really hurting this whole country. Um in other words, for most of us, Minnesota is a better place. It may not be as lucrative for the uh one percenters and the people and the very richest people among us who are seeking to avoid or reduce their tax obligations, but it actually is good for them too in the long run, because they have customers who can buy their stuff, and they have workers who can do their work. Who are educated and trained. And here's the larger, larger international truth on most measures of overall well-being, blue states and nations with healthy democracies, progressive taxation, civil liberties, and economic security for everybody do better than illiberal oligarchies. And I would argue that we have in place right now an attempt by an illiberal oligarchy to rule this nation indefinitely.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's no doubt we've certainly seen all the academic evidence points to a growing disparity in income in this country, growing disparities in wealth. And you saw the so-called big, beautiful bill, which many of us don't think was big and beautiful at all, quite the contrary, but you saw this huge relocation of wealth from middle-income people and poor people, frankly, to the wealthiest 1%, talking about the billionaire class.
SPEAKER_011% of Americans now have 90% of our wealth. 60% of Americans are one paycheck away from being broke. That can't stand. We can't continue down this road. And Minnesota has taken a different path, and that's why we come in better on quality of life rankings.
SPEAKER_02You have compared uh Minnesota's rankings in this and made a tie between the state's Scandinavian heritage and the politics of those countries in Scandinavia, specifically Denmark, Norway, Sweden, even Finland. Right. And say a little bit more about that. Why do you think that connection has been such a strong influence in Minnesota politics for so long? And do you actually think that could be eroding as Minnesota could possibly become more like the rest of the country?
SPEAKER_01Well, I hope it doesn't become more like the rest of the country. But yes, that Scandinavian influence was huge in the development of this state's political culture. Um the Scandinavians were uh largely responsible for the growth of the Farmer Labor Party, the most successful left-wing party in America in history. That later merged with the Democrats, later merged with the Democrats, but their name is still in the party's label. Um they pushed for more equality. That was the bottom line. They wanted more equality. They challenged corporations, they taxed, they imposed an income tax, they invested in education, they invested in human services, and that has been a Minnesota tradition.
SPEAKER_02Labor laws to protect workers, both federal and state level.
SPEAKER_01Right. Uh minimum minimum wage laws. Uh you name it. Minnesota has led the way on uh equality policy in this country. And uh and it shows in the rankings.
SPEAKER_02To be clear, you are not contending that we have no problems here. Heck no. I want to ask you specifically because there's enough people counting on that. Right. Yeah. I don't want to necessarily be associated with uh being a critique critic of that, but I do want to point out it's not all rosy for everybody in Minnesota that there are still disparities in this state related to whether people of color, home ownership rates for people of color, Native Americans living in Minnesota, job opportunities, access to affordable housing, health care. Yep. Say something about what's your perspective about that issue where we're not measuring up the way most of the middle class might be.
SPEAKER_01The gaps are quite uh large for uh black uh Minnesotans and for Indigenous uh Minnesotans. Why does that why is that not so large for Latinos, not so large for uh Asian or Asian population, which is actually two-thirds of our people of color. Yeah. But um uh many black Americans, uh black Minnesotans um came from Chicago and Detroit. They were some of the poorest folks. They came from states that had a longer uh history of uh black residency and a stronger middle class. So we actually got some of the poorest black immigrants to begin with. Also, of course, the African uh immigration, uh including people who came here with nothing. So that immediately will set up a gap. And in fact, this uh racial gap, racial disparity uh and economic uh outcome gap is similar for all of the states in the upper Midwest where the white population was actually outperforming the white population in West Virginia and the South and other places. So the the the gap it can be ex uh I'm not I'm not trying to rationalize it. I've I have been at the forefront and when I was uh head of a think tank at growth and justice on diversity, equity, and inclusion, doing everything we possibly can to reduce those gaps. That clearly is a problem. But MAGA denies it's a problem. I mean, you're not gonna fix it if you deny it's a problem. They are they are going full tilt against diversity, equity, and inclusion and everything that we have tried to do in this state to close that gap. Um, and we have to do more, not less.
SPEAKER_02Some say one your article in the Star Tribune uh uh in May, I want to quote from you here and have you expand, expound upon this, if you will. Some say information and charts and graphs don't work anymore in the age of emotional identity politics. I disagree. Minnesotans who value our democracy and our egalitarian. Traditions must challenge the failed state falsehoods in every way we can with facts and national context. So you see this as a very calculated effort to disparage Minnesota and what we've achieved here with the aim of changing our politics and changing the types of decisions that policymakers make at the state and local level here. Right.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's obvious. This assault is all about trying to flip Minnesota red. And, you know, uh we have been our elections here have been close in recent uh decades. Roughly, I mean, Republicans haven't elected anybody to statewide office or the presidency for more than 20 years. Um, and it's partly because their policies Minnesotans uh can see are not going to be good for these rankings. Um, but uh it's the margin has stayed at about five to six percentage points on these races. Most uh races in Minnesota end up being 52 to 47 percent. Um and I think it will hold true in uh November, but there's a lot of uh turmoil uh nationally, a lot of this fraud thing is complicating things. Um who knows? You you know, I I I would guess that Minnesota will hold true, but it may not, it may not uh uh one or more mega candidates may win.
SPEAKER_02Could it be a closer election? That is it possible that Democrats um outperform their performance in 2024 nationally, but we could have a closer election with some races here in Minnesota. Do you think that's going to happen?
SPEAKER_01That's a possibility. I think that is a possibility, um, partly because of this assault, to which the media, and I was uh reporter for 30 years, I know enough about mass hysteria or or uh you know uh how the media can turn into sort of a uh what what's the term for uh uh when all the reporters are saying the same thing and not thinking through and and adding context. Um I I think the media occasionally has come around with some stories. They the Star Tribune did uh oh one thing I wanted to point out is I felt vindicated when just in the last week uh a report came out from a group called uh uh uh State of the Nation Project, Tulane University, input from conservatives and liberals, a really high-quality report. They fed all this data in, uh picked their criteria. Guess who came out number one best state to live in? Minnesota. I just felt from Tulane U university based in Louisiana, New Orleans. And Louisiana ranked 50th. Wow. But uh again, uh, you know, it was uh I felt vindicated, um, but it's hard to break through the the sort of narrative that has been established here of Minnesota as the as in decline. The most important thing about that project report, though, was they pointed out that the whole country is declining on really important measures uh of how the working and middle class are doing.
SPEAKER_02Let me ask you about one in particular because our time is starting to run down. Some people have noticed the vacancy rate of office space in downtown Minneapolis and said, well, this is the indicator of the city is failing after Operation Surge and George Floyd. But what did you actually find when you looked at vacancy rates in other major American cities?
SPEAKER_01It's as easy as rank the big cities by vacancy rate, and you feed it into the into your keyboard, and boom. Uh sure enough, Austin, Cincinnati, red state cities have a similar vacancy rate. And it would be so easy for a reporter to check, you know, and insert it. But then it might not end up on the front page. I I've often said that if you put enough context into every news story, nothing would be on the front page.
SPEAKER_02Well, and there's something else when we talk about office vacancies in downtown. Let's face it, at the time you and I were growing up here in Minnesota, or I grew up here, you grew up elsewhere, Texas and Alaska, I believe. But when I was growing up here in the 60s, a big attraction was to go downtown to the department stores, to go to Dayton's, to go to Donaldson's, to go to Powers. But something fundamental shifted in how American consumers react or how they buy. They don't go down to department stores anymore for a variety of reasons. Not the least being which you can order it on your computer, have it delivered to your doorstep, and if you don't like it, you can return it just as easily. So aren't these factors that contribute to the vacancy rate? Absolutely it's not an indicator that, as the president has suggested, that Minneapolis or Minnesota are a hellhole.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah, the digital age has upended uh the United States, and Minnesota is part of the United States, and it's and uh there's just no question that it's created chaos and disruption. But the most important thing it's done is is concentrate wealth and and privilege in too few hands and political power too, and we have to take it back.
SPEAKER_02I want to ask you a political question. Um, the extraordinary events from December through this winter in Minneapolis with uh, actually throughout the state of Minnesota with Operation Surge, ICE Operation Surge, I think it's fair to say that this was a traumatic event for this community. We saw two American citizens um shot and killed on the streets of our city. But Minneapolis reacted in a way that has actually captured global attention, national attention, but also global attention, and led to the city, I believe, being nominated for uh a Nobel Peace Prize. Right. The people of Minneapolis. Say something. What you are you surprised by that, by the amount of attention that Minneapolis attracted because of Operation Surge and how the citizens reacted, how people reacted?
SPEAKER_01I wasn't surprised. Actually, it fit with my theory about what makes Minnesota great. It's people standing up for their rights. And their neighbors. The Bob Marley song.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Stand up for your rights. And that is a Minnesota tradition. We uh we uh don't put up with uh unfairness and inequality. And it it I was again, I felt vindicated. Um, but it wasn't about me, it's about it's about our people. They stood up and they uh, you know, there's a there's a moral compass in this state. I I kind of like uh our motto, the North Star State, because it always has had that implication of of a of a reckoning, a moral reckoning.
SPEAKER_02We're a true North. A true numbers points to true north.
SPEAKER_01And we uh the other thing about a North Star, it was always a beacon for people of color who were seeking freedom.
SPEAKER_02Dane Smith, author and journalist, uh continue writing. Uh we're gonna be reading your articles for some time to come in Min Post and uh your occasional articles in the Star Tribune. Thank you for being our guest today on Access to Democracy. Thank you, Steve.
SPEAKER_00This program was recorded at Egan High School. The views and opinions expressed on this program are solely those of the producers andor the persons appearing on the program, and do not reflect the views and opinions of ETV or those of District 196 schools.