Hello and welcome to the swim brief. My name is Chris DeSantis, and I got him, guys. I've been talking a little bit about this on the podcast. I got Dave Rollins on the podcast. Welcome to the podcast, head coach of Florida Gulf Coast Swimming and Diving. How are you?
SPEAKER_00I'm doing well. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean you were you were you were uh you were having a little bit of time to yourself, so we we we took us a little bit longer to get this together, but I I also like I was so excited to bring you on here. I think for one reason above all, but I think there's going to be other interesting things for us to discuss. But you know, I think we have a climate right now around college swimming where um there's a lot of uncertainty for sure. And in in the space of that uncertainty, people are projecting all sorts of like worst case outcomes. And one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on was because in the midst of that, it was like a beam of light for me to see that you were coaching a program that was like, hey, something unexpectedly good could happen, right? Not just it's not just gonna be like uncertainty and and potential bad news, but into this uncertainty, uh something good could happen. So I want to get to that. But when we when we start one of these podcasts, we always do a little bit of a biographical piece on if somebody hasn't been on before. Um and I wanted to sort of control that a little bit because I was thinking about you. I actually, in the process of researching for this podcast, I realized we're both mass holes. Like you're from Brockton, Mass? Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes, born born and raised in New England. Um, don't sound it one bit. Um my mom made a deal with my dad that uh we had to move outside of uh Massachusetts the moment one of us started developing an accent, and the moment my sister started saying like have it, and it was she was like, We're out. So, you know, we didn't really go very far. Went up to uh Burlington, uh Vermont. So uh that's about as far as as we got before we moved out to uh out to Arizona, but yeah, born in Brockton.
SPEAKER_01So born in Brockton, Vermont, and this is one of the things like you you then you say Arizona. Like I was looking up your I mean, just your coaching bio, you've been in Ohio. Um so you really like have you coached up in the Pacific Northwest? Because then we could say you've touched like all four corners and the center of the United States.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, no Pacific Northwest. Um beautiful area, nothing against it. Um it just it worked out with my family. We moved out to Arizona when I was going into high school and uh state, you know, swam club, high school, college, uh got into coaching all pretty much right out of college. And um, you know, my wife's family is all from uh Cincinnati. My father-in-law coaches at St. Xavier High School. I worked with the Marlins for a couple years. Uh it's you know, my my theory with uh girls from the Midwest is they might leave, but they're gonna bring somebody back with them. And that's that held true. Um I think that the theory still holds true, but uh yeah, we were we were out in Arizona for a good amount of time. Uh then we were in Ohio for six, seven years, you know, both coaching club and college at Ohio State as well, and then you know, down here about to finish finishing up my ninth season and thankfully starting my tenth season next year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So you're uniquely qualified. I that this is where I was headed with all of this, to like sort of comment on a wide breadth of swimming in the United States. So, you know, I think there's obviously there's differences between all of those places. But what do you think, like what do you think is something that regardless of what part of the United States you're in, is just sort of the same when it comes to the sport of swimming.
SPEAKER_00Uh it's hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Tell me more.
SPEAKER_00I mean, like, you gotta put in the work to get the results that you want, right? Like, no matter what level you're you're competing, um, you know, whether you're at a mid-major like we are, trying to win a conference championship and qualify people to NCAAs, or you're trying to win a national championship or be a top five, top ten, top 15 team, whatever it is, it's not it's not easy to do. And you know, every level has its challenges and and every athlete is is got to be dedicated to um you know, one helping themselves get better, but ultimately trying to help their team as much as they can. So that's the same no matter where no matter where you go. Like the sport is not it's not easy. It takes a long time. It's uh it's a it's like a delayed gratification almost, right? Like you got to put weeks and months of work into something to maybe see a hundred hundredth of a second improvement if you're if you're lucky. And even that can be great, you know, because people can go for years where they don't see that improvement, and then all of a sudden, you know, they they draw a little bit of extra time, and you know, it took three, four years for that to happen, but you know, thankfully it actually happened. But yeah, it's it's hard, it's hard no matter where you are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it I think it actually speaks to first off, it just speaks to the kind of person that we get in the sport. I mean, that's one of the reasons why I love working in swimming, because what you just said, you end up with very hard-nosed, tough people, um, really amazing, like amazingly capable people uh within the sport just because of how demanding it is. And um, I don't know if your wife was a swimmer. My wife was not a swimmer. And she wasn't.
SPEAKER_00She grew up around swimming, both of her parents were swim coaches.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's right. Yeah, her father-in-law was at St. Nex. So, I mean, that that's some pretty um serious high school swimming, right? Um, but I I think that, you know, like I was trading notes with my wife, and I've told this story before on the podcast. Like, she was like, Oh yeah, I was pretty serious about field hockey, and I was on a club team. And it took me until like a year ago for me to be like, how much did you guys practice? And she was like, Ah, a couple times a week. And I was thinking, like, in my mind, I'd always said, Oh, we were doing the same thing. We were not doing the same thing.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01I mean, swimming is not you're not, you're not, we don't like uh for the most part, you know, in in in collegiate swimming, we don't think you're serious in high school if you're training a couple days a week. I don't, I don't know anybody who thinks that that is a serious level of commitment. But it speaks to the fact that in swimming we just go, oh yeah, but that's what you do. Like, yeah, you gotta you gotta wake up, you gotta do a double, you gotta lift weights, you gotta, you know, come back and train again. And that's just what it takes to be good at this sport. And I think if we don't get a perspective from outside the sport, sometimes we just take that for granted, like, oh, that's just normal, right? There's people do that. No, it's actually like really exceptional, um, the people in the sport of swimming, the way that they dedicate themselves to what they're doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think every you could say every sport is is challenging, like if you're trying to compete at the highest of levels, right? But I mean, we're the only sport that is in a unnatural environment. People aren't born to swim. Like, we are born on land to be land creatures. Some of us are just not land creatures and we're just drawn drawn to the water. But uh, I mean, there's there's a reason why we have to practice as much as we do. Like, we can't just you know go to the gym. And I'm saying basketball is super challenging. I can't make a free throw to save my life, but you can pick up a ball, you can go to a court, and you can shoot, you know, shoot some baskets, right? But you're not doing that through jello, you're not you know, doing it with uh not being able to breathe. Like it's it's such a just a unique environment to try and be great in. It's hard. It's very it's very hard.
SPEAKER_01So let's zero in a bit on uh Florida Gulf Coast, because as you said, like you're going into your 10th year, and wow, I mean, as somebody who's uh I think I went uh when I was coaching at Georgia Tech, we went on a training camp there. Um, but that becomes farther and farther in the past. That was maybe 13 years ago, you know. So in my mind, I'm like, oh, Dave just got there. But no, right? I mean, you probably catch yourself doing that sometimes, but now it's like really you've been there for for quite a while. If you could transport back, you know, nine plus years into the past, what attracted you in initially? What made you think, like, gosh, I'd really I want to go all in to try to be the head coach of Florida Gulf Coast?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's interesting. I was at I was at Ohio State, I was the associate head coach for the men's team. Um, things were rolling pretty well. We had you know, NCAA all-Americans, we had guys that were were swimming very fast. Um, but I knew like in my heart that being a head coach was something that I I wanted to do. Um, you know, nine years ago, I'm still kind of a bit of an idiot and didn't fully realize what I was getting myself into. But um, you know, there's no better way to learn than to actually do it, right? You can't get the experience unless you get the experience. So um my wife and I, we had no family in the area. Um we, I mean, Columbus is two hours away from from her family in Cincinnati, and my family was in Arizona, and so we'd always kind of been around family, and we had the conversation of like if this is something we're gonna do, we need to we need to do it on our own. We need to figure out how we're gonna exist as a as a family. Uh my daughter was uh super fresh. Um, I mean, she was see, she's 12 now, so she was nine, three, three years old. We moved here. My son was just born. Um, so he was a little baby. Um, so we were a very new family, and you know, trying to uh figure out what we want to be as a family, we needed to do it on our own. And so Florida's super far away. Um there was an assistant coach at the time, uh Amanda, who was here, um who we worked together for a year uh at Ohio State. She's from Cincinnati. Um, and she reached out to me saying, Hey, we have uh uh we have an opening. Uh Neil had just left to go to Florida State, and um she's like, Hey, I think you should interview for the job. And I was like, Where? What what where is this what are you talking about? So kind of anybody, right? The first time you know you're trying to to introduce yourself, you know, they're they're talking about the university, where it's located, and you know, you start Googling and you see all these beautiful pictures, and you know, you're you're attracted to the palm trees, and you know, you see the videos, the dorms on the water, and all of this beautiful stuff, right? So you know, my wife and I look at each other and we're like, all right, this could be this could be a good place to to go, you know, look it up. Um fortunate enough to get uh in interview. Um when I came down to uh campus in interview in person. Um I think it was the the combination of the campus itself was still still very young, right? It was only founded in 1997, so it's only 25, six, seven, eight years old at this point. Um we're still we're still growing, we're still developing, um, which is awesome. It's great to be a part of you know something that's that's young and and growing. Uh but then the department itself is so it's very it's very inclusive, right? It's not a massive athletic department. Like Ohio State's amazing. They have the best of the best of of everything. It's it's absolutely incredible. And we we loved our time there. Um but just for for me and my personality and and who I am as a person, being part of something that's a little more family focused is is what what we needed. And coming down here, and I just I knew on the first day when uh my family finally moved to town, like I had to move ahead of time. This is classic coaching. Sure. Move ahead of time. Sure. My family has to finish, they end up coming later, whatever. Um, we go to a soccer game, and I'm wheeling my son in his stroller, and you know, my daughter, she's walking with my wife, and the athletic director comes up and he says, Hey Dave, you know, good to see you. Caroline, nice to meet you. Alice, welcome. Elliot, good to see you. I mean, my son's nine months old, he's not gonna say anything, but he knew everybody's name. He knew you know exactly you know what to say, and it was just like we we matter. Like this is a place where we we fit in and we feel we feel at home. So, and then you know, fast forward 10 years, we're still we're still there.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it says something, it says something, right? Because you I I would imagine, um, especially given how successful you've been over that period of time, there there is a potential for um other opportunities. So there also has to be things that are that are keeping you there. And I guess this sort of leads into my next question. I've already got half an answer. Maybe you can go even further. But I, you know, I was I was gonna ask you like what makes Florida Gulf Coast unique? And I'm already hearing, I mean, I didn't know that um that the school was so young, and I can imagine that within the athletic department, right? Like when you when you work at a place that has existed for a long time, I mean, like I coached at Georgia Tech and they'd had a swim team since 19, a men's team since 1919 or something. Certain stuff just gets into the culture, right? And it's very hard to extract. And you'll just be like, hey, this thing's kind of dumb. Why are we doing this? And people go, that's just the way it is here, man. This is how we do it. Right. And in a new place, you have that opportunity to kind of level set and start from scratch and go, like, okay, if we were gonna build this from the ground up, how would we do it? Right. And of course, things will evolve over time, but you know, maybe along those lines or in other ways, like how how is Florida Gulf Coast unique?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's it's in a beautiful part of the country, right? Like it's uh it's kind of this untapped little corner. I mean, it's kind of getting tapped a little bit more as everything is in in Florida, everything's starting to grow.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But um we're just we're fortunate that things are moving in a very positive direction. So the university is moving in a very positive direction, our athletic department is moving in a very positive direction, especially in you know the the times that we're we're about to to get into and things that things that have been happening. Um but I think something that sets it apart is that you can you can do anything that you truly want to do and achieve without the outside pressures of those things, if that makes sense. So like you go to like Georgia Tech or Ohio State where the expectation is win a national championship, make the Olympic team, whatever it might be, right? That is that is your expectation. Whereas, you know, here you can do those things. You know, we've had our basketball team's been to the Sweet 16, we've sent athletes to the Olympics. Um, you know, we've had athletes at NCAAs, we've been we've had NCAAL Americans, people you know, finaling at world championships, all of these incredible accomplishments, but it's because they're given the freedom of also being who they are as people. They're not uh just mindless athletes that comes off wrong. Like I wouldn't No, but I hear you.
SPEAKER_01You don't feel like you're like a cog in the machine, right? I mean, that's sort of what you're speaking to. That sometimes things can get so big, it's not intentional, it's not as if anyone just goes like, uh, we're all here, just like, you know, working our little widget and trying to make this machine work. But like the scale of things can make it hard sometimes to not feel like that.
SPEAKER_00Right. And you know, we also have to think of where where we live. Like it's we live in paradise. I mean, we have a beach on campus, we're 20 minutes from the actual coast, like where the where the gulf is. Um, if we don't allow people to be people and enjoy these these moments, like it's they're not gonna be their their best version of themselves when we when we need them to to work hard and do the things that they need to do. So we have that flexibility, we have um you know, we have all the you know the resources that we can we can ask for. Uh we just got a brand new weight room a couple years ago. It's it's phenomenal. Um, we have a beautiful outdoor 50-meter pool. Like not everybody has this. I mean, it's it's surrounded by trees, like it's green every it's green every time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, been there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's uh it is it just it's just different. It's a different college feel. Um the best way to describe it is like, you know, recruits don't usually ask, you know, tell me about you know what does campus feel like, but it's like think about where we live. We're surrounded by golf communities and gated communities, and that is where we our campus is like a little resort. And you drive in and you see all the beautiful palm trees and all the beautiful buildings, and that's kind of what it's modeled after.
SPEAKER_01So let me get to the point um of you know the big thing that I wanted to bring you on to discuss, which is the news. So I was I was you know looking out there, and the news splashed uh on Swim Swam, Florida Gulf Coast is going to fund more scholarships. You know, previously you would say you were fully funded. That that term is gonna start to date us, I think, as uh as coaches when we start saying fully funded at 14 because that that fully doesn't exist anymore, right? You as you say, um people can have much more freedom to do what they want. So I guess I want to ask this. So you're going from 14 to 18 scholarships. When did the conversation start? Like, when did when did the conversation start with your athletic director? Like, hey, what if we pushed in harder on the sport of swimming?
SPEAKER_00Well, we actually had 11 before this.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I didn't even realize that.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we had 11.
SPEAKER_01You're going from 11 to 18?
SPEAKER_00Yes, we had 11 in-state scholarships. That was our that was our budget. And we've been fortunate to work with the university to uh receive some assistance in terms of like out-of-state uh tuition waivers and something that we can uh we can benefit from as well. Uh but yeah, our budget went went from 11 scholarships to to 18, which is which is phenomenal. And I I cannot take any of the credit because our athletic director, when he came in, he's been here for I think just about a year now. Um he came in, guns blazing, we are going all in on the changing environment in collegiate athletics. And so every program was tasked with asking, you know, if you were to receive an increase in scholarships, what what would be the dream? What would work for you? What would and and how and how explain right? So um, you know, give us your your best case scenario, second case, third case scenario. And so for me, I was like, I mean, I would love to get 30, but is that realistic? No, absolutely not. That's that's not something that's that's gonna happen. But our conference, you have 18 scoring people, NCAAs are gonna have 18 scoring people. And so I was like, best case situation, we we have 18, because then you can eventually, maybe if this is the way that you go, but we can still split them up however we however we want. And you know, you'd have 18 18 athletes, you know. Second case is you know, this number, third case would be this number. I was I was just hopeful that we could get to 14 and be uh considered fully funded in the old time. Fully funded, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh very I mean when I heard the number, uh, I was I was Florida, I was sitting with my uh sports supervisor, um, and she told me the news, and I was uh like I was speechless. I didn't I didn't know what to say. I couldn't I couldn't believe this was a reality. Because I mean at a school of our size, we're a smaller school, we have to we fundraise for a lot of things, and you know, fundraising for more scholarships or travel budget or nutrition, whatever it is, we that's just kind of the norm, and that's fine, come to make it make it work, and we can do a lot of uh you know cool things with uh with a little bit a little bit less, but sometimes you get tired of saying we're gonna do more with with less. So we got the we got the news, and I'm sorry, when did you find out?
SPEAKER_01Like we so this has been recently announced, but like how long before the rest of us found out did did you know?
SPEAKER_00He made the announcement. We have a big fundraiser every year called Night of the Nest. It's like a big auction night. Um, you know, there's hundreds of people that that come. Um he made the announcement that every team was gonna receive at least a 40% increase. I guess on average of 40%.
unknownI don't know.
SPEAKER_00I was at I was at USO, but I didn't hear the actual announcement, so I don't want to I don't want to miss that. Um it's either an average of 40 or at least 40 uh percent increase in their scholarship budget. And the so that was in December. He made the announcement. We knew a little bit before then, but obviously it wasn't. Uh it wasn't going to be public information until they decided what what they were going to announce, um, which is totally fine. And then, you know, we had to figure out what we were gonna do with it. And it's all it obviously it's all kind of based on we can't go over fourteen if the settlement doesn't uh go through, right? Like if we're we're allowed to uh go, I mean, we're gonna have the budget dollars, but we can't go over 14 scholarships. So it allows us to be a little more flexible if cost of attendance is involved. We can do some new things that we haven't been able to do before.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I mean, I just I guess that that leads me to a natural question, which is philosophically, right? Like there is some of this that's still uncertain, and I would guess you probably in any case would want to avoid just like blasting up to that scholarship level right away. I mean, it's tempting, right? It's just like, you know, like there's there's a huge transfer market right now. Like you could be the biggest um buyer, you know, in a buyer's market, right? If we want to term it like that for swimming talent. Um, but on the other hand, you do have this uncertainty on the other end, and maybe it is maybe that can work strategically too, right? To just to be a little bit more gradual about how soon you get there. So you don't just like spend it all to spend it all in terms of scholarship money, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and there's there's a lot of things to consider, right? Like it's um, you know, teams if everything goes through, then teams are limited to how many athletes they can have on the roster, you know, with uh you know how many we already have, what does it look like in terms of uh bringing people in? You know, we're it's we're we just don't really know everything yet, but you know, trying to figure out what's what to do and how to move move forward with it is it's a very you know, it's a blessed problem to have. And yeah, you know, we're just I'm gonna be thankful for forever just to get to this part. I mean, it's been it's been a kind of a crazy few few weeks and months.
SPEAKER_01I imagine. I mean, so you said your athletic director yeah, came in guns blazing. What do you think, like philosophically, why do you think he has that attitude? Because again, I I preface this whole podcast by saying there's a lot of people who are looking at this uncertainty right now and going, uh, maybe we should edge back a little bit, maybe we should be a little bit more conservative, you know, maybe uh I don't know what's gonna happen. Like there's there's a lot of like that sort of hedging. So why do you think, I mean, or or why how is he explained this strategy of like, no, actually, in in this period of uncertainty, we're gonna be a little bit aggressive.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, we have things that work in our benefit. So we don't have a football program, um, which a lot of the new resources, uh, so to speak, are are geared towards football, men's, women's basketball, and some of some of the other sports. I don't know all the the breakdown every single thing.
SPEAKER_01Sure. You haven't had to think about it fully.
SPEAKER_00So um, and you know, the other piece of it is is the the the phrasing, the ability to revenue share, right? Like that's the other the other piece of the puzzle. Um if you don't have revenue to share, there's nothing you have to worry about, right? You're not fundraising to give out money to people. We're we'll we will get there one day, and I think we're working towards towards that. Um but you know, I think his his vision is how are we going to position FGCU to be the most competitive on a national stage? And what is it that you guys need to make that happen? Um that's that's what we are honestly being asked to do is figure out what are the things you need, and just to be asked, what are the things you need, how can we help you? What is it? It might not happen, but they're asking. And it's in the back of their minds, these are some things we can try and eventually uh work towards. So, you know, I think that um, like I said, the things that make FGC unique are exactly probably reason why he is going up you know all in as much as as much as he can. Because you can accomplish, like you said, you can accomplish anything that that you want here. You just need to have the people that believe in you and the the resources to make it happen.
SPEAKER_01And I mean, I know it's still early times too, but I'm just thinking out loud here, as you look to the future of this. I mean, have you sat down? I'm not gonna ask you to to name some specific goals, but have you sat down and gone like, okay, like what would we consider like good good results at a national level given this? As is that something you've done in that in that three-month period?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's um I think you kind of have to, right? Because then you have to base your recruiting around what your your goals are. Um, you know, so for us, I mean, we were hundredths of a second away from sending an athlete to NCAAs again, right? This is the fastest year of collegiate swimming of all time. And you know, we had we had a young lady who was a freshman who was three tenths under the the cut time and the hunter back last year, but missed the meat by three tenths because of just how much how much how much faster the meat's been. But you know, we look at it, it's like how are we going to want, how are we going to consistently send athletes to NCAAs? What does that look like? What is what do we need to do to make that happen? Uh, what types of athletes do we need to be uh looking into? And and I'm always a believer in the personality first, that if you have good people, good people attract other good people, and there's a lot of really good people that are really fast, and you just have to have that that base of great human beings to attract great fast human beings. Not to say, I mean, I love every single one of our athletes. They're they're phenomenal uh human beings, they're they're on the same page. Like, when do you talk about how are we gonna send a relay to NCAAs? What does that look like? And I'm sitting here talking to a couple of the you know the ladies on the team, and they're like, well, you know, if I can get my relay started just a little bit quicker, or you know, if I hit this just a little bit better, if we can work on this, like they're they want to see it happen as well. Like it's something that's that's special, that doesn't happen all the time at a place like like we have. So we want to start changing that around a little bit to make it be something that happens more frequently. So you know, starting to do that. Can I ask you?
SPEAKER_01Can I ask you a question about that? So it I think this is really important. So I actually want to get you to explain it a little bit more when you talk about like your recruiting sort of based on personality. I think this is such like when I talk to people, I'm like, this is so underrated, you know, you don't just want to find the fastest kids that are willing to come to your school, you know, it it really matters. So how do you how do you try to suss that out in the recruiting process? Like how do you how how because you know you never can get a full picture of somebody, right? You're always getting these snapshots and you're always gonna have to like venture a guess. But given the limitations of the recruiting process, how do you try to figure out like, oh, this person's gonna come in and be just they're just gonna have great character on my team?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's not easy, it's not an exact science by any stretch and imagination. No, every every coach, if they're not admitting that they get it wrong, then like I don't know what they're telling you because we're we swing in a mist sometimes and it and it happens. Um, but well, and and anybody on a recruiting call can sound fantastic for 15 minutes, right? Everyone can be the most amazing you know human possible for a phone call. It's well, getting into campus is part of it, getting them to know the team. Um, but swimming is such a like it's a small enough community, but big enough where you know, if there's people that we're talking to, I mean the team knows who who are kind of a recruiting, who are bringing in on visits and those types of things, that they know people that know people. And so they go out of their way. We don't, I don't ask them like, hey, you have you might have a friend that goes here, ask this question, ask this question, and you know, you can't do that. But you know, I might have someone that comes to me and says, Hey, you know, I have a friend that swims with with Sally, and you know, I don't think that she's gonna be a good fit for for what we got going on. And I'll say, Okay, how come? And then she'll explain you know her reasons, and I'll be like, Okay, that's great. Then we'll respectfully move on from Sally. And that's you know, it's it's when it's driven by by them and they're invested into it a little bit more, it makes it I want to say it's easier, it's definitely not easy by any stretch of the imagination, but they they want to be around a group of women that they want to be around as well, right? They want to enjoy coming to practice every single day, they want to enjoy who they're hanging out with outside of the outside of the pool every single day. And you know, selfishly, I'm gonna enjoy coming to work every single day. Like this is my this is my job. It's a it's a crazy job, but you know, it's a job. And it's uh it's it's weird when my I have uh you know, I might be out. This is this is a total tangent. This is the type of thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, please, I love tangents. Go.
SPEAKER_00If you already got in on a coaching meeting, then this is exactly how these things go. Um like the thing, the craziest part of our job is I'm I'm recruiting 16-year-olds, and I'm 40 years old. I'm a 40-year-old man that has to look at you know somebody's social media profile to make sure one, there's nothing that's you know inappropriate that sort of stands out, uh, you know, two, kind of figure out who they are a little bit more as a person. But like I remember we can be be out at uh uh you know hanging out with some friends or something, and I get an email you know from uh a prospect, and uh you know, the first thing you do is you know look them up. And I have a buddy who's like, what are you doing?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00It's my job. Like it's just part of part of my job. It's like it's weird.
SPEAKER_01It is weird. Now that you say it like that, I'm like, I'm getting uncomfortable, but it's it's it is part of it, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So so to go back to it, um, it's not an exact science, but like when the team is invested in the the development of of the program, it it makes it makes a really big difference. And they're when they're able to be honest, like if they're I want them to be honest with me. Like if we bring somebody on campus and they don't think they're gonna be a good fit, I want to know. Like I don't want to, you know, take it, you know, two, three, four steps down the road and be like, all right, hey, you know, Susan's coming and you know she's super excited, and then I have a side conversation. Oh, well, really, she did, and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? Like, I'd rather know right away so we can make the best decisions possible.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. I think that brings me to sort of the last area I want to talk about, which is, I mean, I don't, I don't really know you. I guess we sort of like know who each other are, um, but we are friends or you know, following each other on social media. And so, you know, I wanted to ask you about this, and it's strange to me because it feels like an oddly personal question, but I'm gonna ask you about stuff that I know you've posted about on social media. So I'm like, it's not, it's it's not personal, Chris. Like he's already shared. Yeah, he's already he's already shared, but I mean, um you're you say you're 40, I'm 41. I mean, part of the reason I'm doing what I'm doing is for my own physical and mental health. So perhaps I'm seeking out validation uh from you, but you know, I I get the sense that you've especially within the last year or so, like you've really been on a uh journey in this job, um, to put it lightly, uh, in terms of taking care of your own physical and mental health. And I wonder if you talk about that a little bit um in terms of like what what is your approach to managing your own physical and mental health? Because I think you know it's a it's a concern for athletes as well. Um it's it's something that I find myself talking a lot about, the sort of changing environment for athletes. And I think one of the most underrated things is for us as coaches, um, is just to lead by example and to show people like, hey, I'm taking my health seriously as well. Um, so that that's my prompt. Um, you share whatever you want to share in that department.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's it it's uh sort, I mean, sort of ironic that you bring this up now because I've just started a more serious like fitness routine again. Okay. Um, because I went through and I was I was training for a triathlon and I was like, I gotta do something, I gotta stay motivated, you know, whatever it was. But like my downfall is like if it's over, I'm done. Like I'm just I'm shutting it all down, and that's not that is not healthy at all. Um so you know, getting back, getting back into it, and part of it is, you know, yes, kind of leading by example, but it's more like I need to be healthy for my family, I need to be here for a long time. I mean, my youngest is is five now, and you know, I want to see her have grandkids. So what is it that I need to do in order to live a longer, healthier, happier uh life in the long run? And um I mean I had I had a health scare a few years ago, and that kind of kicked some things into overdrive and kicked some bad habits uh out the door. And I have the type of I'm blessed having the type of personality that if I decide I'm not going to do something, it's I just don't do it. And it's uh it it can be a challenge at times, but like cutting out certain things, you know, too much caffeine is obviously terrible for your heart. And if you're having energy drinks all the time, and like it's just it's just bad for you.
SPEAKER_01Um so that that sorry, I was gonna say, is that an example that's like something you changed? Like you were like a you know, kind of caffeine junkie coach and you've you've reformed, or what are some stuff you changed?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I didn't start drinking coffee until I started coaching and realizing that uh it's hard for me to wake up if I'm not jumping into a cold pool. And so being on the pool deck, it's while easier just being on the pool deck, you know, not being mentally alert enough to be physically and mentally present to be my best self for for the athletes. I needed to do something, and so you know, just like with anything, you start taking, you know, whether it's coffee or or whatever, your body builds up a tolerance, and then eventually need a little bit more, and you need a little bit more, and then to get you know to the levels that that you need to, and it was just leading to some unhealthy habits. And um I used to be a super animated person on the sidelines, sidelines, on the pool deck. Um when events were going on, jumping up and down, running back and forth, like, and my body just couldn't handle it anymore. And there was just there was too many stimulants going through my body, and it was like, listen, man, you gotta you gotta cut it out. Like so I had to take you know, take a pause and take a look at at the way I was I was going through things, and it was not a healthy, you know, healthy lifestyle, and you know, I'm fortunate to still be here and and be able to make those changes. But um, I mean that was that was part of it. I still drink coffee, but it's not as much by any stretch of the imagination. Um I'm definitely a little more I've always been a laid-back human being, but I'm definitely more laid back when it comes to uh you know my my actions on the pool deck. Um still very you know cheering and supportive of of what they got going on, but you know, knowing that like I got 30 to 40 more years of this.
SPEAKER_01Like you gotta pace yourself. You gotta pace yourself.
SPEAKER_00No, I was not a distance swimmer, so you know, pacing was was not something that was built into me. Um I mean the other side of it, like it's I mean, I I don't need to be you know getting preachy or anything like that, but like I had I had to cut alcohol out of my life too, because that was uh something that was very challenging uh for me because like just like I said, I can I can cut something out and never think about it again and never do it again. Uh but I'm also super like my my body's super addictive to something, right? Like as soon as I I I was having issues and it was just constantly coming in and in and in and just needed to needed to cut that out uh as well. It's been fantastic, right?
SPEAKER_01It's really interesting. No, I mean I just like I I say that because I I've had periods in my life where I just like I look back on it and I was like, it's not that I thought I was an alcoholic, I was just like, wow, I was that was too much. Um especially in drinking and like you know, or in caffeine, and you you sort of like keep doubling down on a strategy sometimes for coping with whatever and well past the point where it's helping you, and then when you change it, you realize like how much just like dealing with you know whatever would have been a better strategy, right? Um and I I can hear it in your voice, and I I share some of the same gratitude. Like I I feel very grateful to have kind of made some mistakes and then have had the chance to to go a different direction. Um and I and I gather it's probably something you end up thinking up about a lot because you're coaching college kids, so they're they're they're gonna make some mistakes as well, right? And yeah, and they need to be able to come back from those too.
SPEAKER_00It's so it's such an interesting, like it's different, right? Like, I mean, I was in college 20 years ago, and like I never I never drank coffee. I mean, energy drinks weren't really a thing, like pre-worker.
SPEAKER_01I like I honestly I I'm so grateful that like caffeine and alcohol were not something that was mixed when I was in college. I think I would have gotten into like way more trouble. You know, I would have had way more time in the trouble zone between one and four in the morning where nothing good happens for anybody, right?
SPEAKER_00And you know, we're I don't know. I don't I don't put it onto the team. I let I mean I let them be, you know, I let them be human beings. I just remind them to make make good choices, you know, look out for each other, take care of each other, and you know, good things will take care of themselves. But I think that was it, I think that's an Eddie Reese quote. I don't want to take credit for that. That's a decent saying. I'm pretty sure Eddie said that. Um but you know, they they have to be able to make mistakes too. That's how we grow. Like we can't create an environment where they they can't fail, and there's no growth in that. So, you know, people make mistakes and things and things happen, but um, you know, they they learn quickly, just like just like we do. Sometimes men are a little slower in learning these things than than women are, which is to work with women all the time.
SPEAKER_01But um Your wife is gonna listen to this podcast, so you have to say that. My life, my wife won't listen to my my podcast, so she doesn't need to know that I'm a little bit slower to figure things out.
SPEAKER_00My wife will say it. It's fine. I love my wife to death. She's she is as honest as they come.
SPEAKER_01So yeah. She knows. She knows. She knows. Mine, mine too. Uh and and on that topic, here's sort of where I want to finish things is like you, as you've referenced, like, this is a crazy job, right? There's there's some parts of it that there's just no way around. Like you're you're gonna have to be on the road doing meets, you're gonna have to have a lot of early mornings, you're gonna have some weird hours during the day. What's your approach to kind of harmonizing? I'm I'm borrowing this term. I had Greg Meehan on the podcast in the fall, and I I really like the way he said it. He said, Don't don't strive for balance, strive for harmony. There is no balance, right? Because there's no balance. And if you and if you start saying, like, oh, I gotta get everything in balance, it's just a losing proposition. You just feel really bad. So what are what are some strategies for harmonizing, right? To to to get to a point where you feel like, okay, I'm I'm a good husband, I'm a good coach, I'm a good dad. Please tell me. Please tell me so I can find out how to do it.
SPEAKER_00Um because I definitely think there are times where we don't think those things.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00There are definite times where I try not to miss things. I I do my absolute best. Like I go with my son every Monday, we go to Cup Scouts. That is, that's our that's our thing. Um my daughters are in musical theater. Um they have you know, their performances that are coming up. We go to the we go to all their concerts. I can't always be there for the car rides. I can't always be, I can't do all like I'm picking my girls up from school today, but um I'm I can't always be the one doing my wife. Is uh she's an absolute saint in all of the things that she uh she does that allows me to do do what I do. So I I don't know. I mean, I just I do my best to be present wherever I am. So like I can't control uh what the team's doing at eight o'clock at night on a Tuesday, but I can control being there for my kids. I can be uh you know, I can be around, you know. If my wife and I need to have a conversation about our budget for the month or whatever it might be. Like I need to be present in that moment as best as I possibly can. And it's it's not perfect. You know, I get You know, we have cell phones that go off all the time. Um but you know, trying to just be wherever you are, just being in that moment as best you possibly can to be yourself or those that are around you, I think is a is a way of of getting that harmony, right? And you're never gonna like as yeah, Greg nailed it, you're never gonna have balance. You can't be a hundred percent in more than one thing. And if you're a hundred percent one way, you're gonna be missing out on so many other things. Um I don't know. That's a great question. I'm constantly working on it. It's a constant work in progress.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, I I think one of the things I try to tell myself, and and I think it goes along with the the harmony, not balance, is sometimes it can feel like, as you say, you're sitting there, you're going over budget with your wife, and you know, you make it so black or white for yourself, you say, like, well, I'm not working on you know making Florida Gulf Coast University the best swim team in the country right now. I'm I'm talking budget. No, no, no. Being a good partner, I I start to I've started to correct myself, like being a good partner also makes me a better coach. Yeah, being a good father also makes me a better coach. Being a good coach enhances those other parts of my life. There it's not always black or white, right? When you're doing one thing or another. Yes, everything needs needs some time. There's it's not that you could not that like you know my kids will go, well, daddy was such a great dad because he was a coach and he was never around. Like they won't they won't be smiling, uh saying that. They they for sure want me to literally just be there, be present, as you say, in what I'm doing. But um, sometimes I have to remind myself that pursuing something professionally, fulfilling um that part of my life also enhances the other parts of my life that I really value.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I also think you gotta find the time, you gotta find the pockets of time where you can maximize different things that might not seem like the most ideal time to be doing something.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, it may this might if any of the athletes listen to this or watch this, they this might not come as a surprise, but I might be writing practice at nine o'clock, nine thirty at night when I should be kind of winding down and going to bed. But that's you know, I got home from you know, Cub Scouts at 8 30, and we gotta get to bed, we gotta make sure we got meals made. So, like, oh, this is daddy time. All right, well, first, Caroline, do you need anything? Is there anything we need to be we be need to be doing? And then it's well, I gotta focus on what I need to do, you know, to be ready for for the next day. And then there's always something that comes up in the you gotta be water, you gotta be able to flow, you gotta be able to work your way through it, you gotta be fluid with what you're doing.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's been amazing to talk to you. I w I want to make sure I finish this on time because you are going to pick the kids up from school. Um and I appreciate that. Um, it's been great having you on. It's a wonderful conversation. I think people get a lot out of uh listening to this. Um, you got anything like social media-wise, you want to shout out to people, directions you want to point people.
SPEAKER_00You can find me, right? Like I'm I'm not emailing. I can I'm out there. Um, I mean, social media-wise, and you can follow, you know, follow our Instagram, you know, the Teams page, mine if you want to see pictures of me and my family and Disney and other stuff. Like that's that's what we do. Um the team's up to some really cool things. Uh I talk about, you know, we've been blessed with with the scholarship stuff. We have a big fundraiser coming up, so I don't know if plug-in our give day is is this is the right time, but like it's coming up in two days.
SPEAKER_01And um you could send this to your alumni, you know, maybe they want to hear more from you.
SPEAKER_00Um they're great. I I've and everyone I've had an opportunity to interact with. Um, like I know I might not have I might not have coached them, but you know, everyone I've had a chance to interact with from the years before before I was here have been have been phenomenal. I mean, this is I don't know, I'm on a tangent again. This is just a great place, and I'm just truly blessed to be here and and thankful for for allowing me to chat for a little while.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I'm thankful to everybody for listening. I'm thankful to you, Dave. Um, if you guys want to get in contact with me, swimbriefpodcast at gmail.com. Or you can go to my website, my brand new redesigned website. So cool. You can see great new photos of me, read a new about page, new services page, see all the stuff that uh I'm up to. That's Chrisdcoach.com. I got an awesome, you know, uh I got that uh domain, Chris Dcoach.com. And then uh also you can reach out to me on Instagram, Chris D underscore coach. Um and we put up a podcast like this every week. Uh interviews with coaches, and uh we're trying to be the number one podcast. Uh I'm trying to be the number one podcast for swim coaches, a very niche audience. Um, I think we're well on our way to being there with podcasts like this. So thank you everybody for listening, and I'll be back again with you in a week.
SPEAKER_00Appreciate it. Thank you.