Hello and welcome to the swim brief. I am Chris DeSantis, and today I am bringing you a guest from many thousands of miles away, Tobion Hornberg. I'm Danishizing your name. I'm not even saying it the right way. I'm saying it, I'm saying it the Danish way. I think I think you have um you have a nickname for English speakers who struggle with Scandinavian names, don't you?
SPEAKER_00I can can't come up with that now. Uh but maybe you uh you know it.
SPEAKER_02Tova?
SPEAKER_00Tova or something?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um Thunderbear, you know, if we do a literal uh uh translation. But uh uh Torbjun is the uh head of sport for Poseidon uh swim club, which is in Lund, Sweden. Um and you also do work with the Swedish Center for Aquatic Research, and that's gonna be relevant to the podcast that we're gonna record today because listeners of this podcast know uh I'm going to be attending the World Aquatic Development Conference in Lund. That's an event that's uh put on by the Swedish Center for Aquatic Research as I understand it. And um so I want to talk to you a little bit about how all this stuff came into existence, the conference, the Center for Aquatic Research, um, introduced you to my audience. So why don't we why don't we start at the beginning? I'm gonna ask you to give us a little bit of your background, how you came to um do what you do today for for a job. And then I'm I I have a funny story about how you and I met, which you may or may not remember. Um, but I want to tell the audience that. So so give us give us the short version of your career in the sport of swimming and how you arrived where you are now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, all right. Um thanks for having me, Chris. It's it's a great honor. Um well uh my my coaching career started in a very, very small club in it, it's called Pium Simpsonsko. That's where I swam. It's uh uh it's a small village, 1800 people, and um uh there was no I had a 76-year-old female coach, great lady, but she has had no understanding of technique. Uh but we worked very, very hard. Um and was it was this somebody with like a physical education background who essentially like yeah, pretty pretty much physical education or a sport teacher more you could probably say like um in US uh a high school coach that more or less just got thrown into swimming and just started coaching. Yeah, uh sometimes that works out super great, uh, and sometimes it's uh okay. Uh this was an okay experience. Um we had some great swimmers. Don't misunderstand me. We had some really good swimmers, but it was based on workload. We did mornings, afternoons, and we did uh about six to eight thousand meters morning and afternoon, all freestyle. I've never swam butterfly in my whole life, not 50 meters. Well I I only competed in freestyle and backstroke. That was my two strokes. That was the only thing I I did uh as a competitor. Wow. Uh couldn't swim breaststroke, probably. Uh if if anybody told me to do it now, I would probably have an uneven uh breaststroke cake.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_00But but that got me uh I I stopped swimming because it it was can it it turned boring. I mean when you're 14, 15, 16, then then just swimming meters, that's that was not too much fun. And I started coaching instead. Uh quite early, probably at 14 years old. Uh I started coaching baby swimming and at um youth swimming uh up to my own age, pretty much. Um but I understood that that that wouldn't take me anywhere. I mean, I was in Bianum and I couldn't it really the I loved swimming and I loved coaching, but I didn't know anything about it. Uh so I actually I bought a ticket to the US uh to Los Angeles, and I uh turned up on deck with uh Cindy Gallagher and Brad Burnham at UCLA and said that I was there.
SPEAKER_02I'm here. So so so so a Swedish guy from a village of 1800 people, that's your entire exposure to the sport of swimming, and you just figure I'll just cross the Atlantic Ocean, the entire United States, and go to Southern California and show up at UCLA and be like, hey, I'm here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. But they actually turned me down in three letters before. Um because I wrote uh and I have seen that letter now, uh, 40 years later or 30 years later, and that was not a good letter. Yeah, you you were not asking very politely in the first uh I I I asked politely, but I but I it was still um uh it it was more like well, we can uh you can go to school here. So you get sent school books from all the places that you want to go to. But I was pretty set on that. I was gonna coach at UCLA. So that's where I showed up. And um yeah, it I was there for about an hour before they said, Well, you can't do this. You you you have everything. You can't just show up and have a job. There's rules that uh and there was NC2A rules, and you couldn't be coaching, so so that was so basically um uh I was sent home. Brad Brad Burnham is a great friend of me and uh now. But he was I was sent home by a package of with a book, and um and that was pretty much it. See you. Uh but inside those books, there was something that I knew Brad wanted, so I basically showed up the day after again and said, Well, Brad, I have something that I'm sure uh you want, but then you have to let me take the clock, paste clock in and out every day as long as I want. And I said, Okay, if if I really, really want it, uh then uh then uh I'm gonna let you take and he asked Cindy too, so and um it was his paycheck signed.
SPEAKER_02So you blackmailed Brad Burnham with his paycheck to in order to get uh a role uh on uh the I didn't get a role.
SPEAKER_00I I I I actually I did get to take the pace clock in and out, and that but I stayed for for quite a time and then um moved up uh when when Brad was um moving from UCLA uh up to coach at um in Colorado in Fort Collins. Uh I actually moved with him to coach uh in Fort Collins uh for a while and then I went back to Sweden and called back to Villanova University, and that's when I started coaching for real. So that's that was my start in the in the big big uh league. When you get to Villanova, that's uh that was a Division I school, so but I had the man's team there, uh helped out at Barch at that time.
SPEAKER_02So so you elbowed your way in to college swimming in the United States as a as a Swedish guy from uh from a village of 1800 people. Um how do you get so how long were you in the US and then and then how do you get back to to to Lund? Or I guess back not back to Lund, but uh to Lund.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I I didn't that was not a straight line. I I went back, went to uh Swedish um national sports school, um was there for a couple years, then moved to Norway, uh was the union national coach in Norway, then I moved to Denmark, uh south of Denmark, really uh uh by the border of Germany, uh coached there for a couple of years, and then that's when I really started to figure out I need to go back to the someplace where they have a university, because that's what I wanted. I want I wanted to be able to have the connection with the students or teachers or professors at a university. Uh and that's when I moved to Lund. And that that was the main purpose to to go to Lund. That that was the university. The swim team wasn't doing very well at the time, but um the with great great uh that was a great opportunity, right? That there's quite a big city, hundred thousand, uh, hundred and twenty thousand people, um in the heart, like in the south where I grew up in Sweden. So that that's pretty much how I wanted up here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and I guess this leads into some of the stuff with the Swedish Center for Aquatic Research, because I'm hearing in that answer, like you wanted to be in a your university environment. You wanted to be in an academic environment. W why was that important to you?
SPEAKER_00I think I think the my I could develop things with people, right? I can't be my by myself to have I I I had tons of ideas uh when it comes to came to things that I done in the US uh at the college level, and I always had some smart professor or something that I could share the idea with, and and then they could come back with it, and and we could play with the idea, and then uh and uh that was uh that was what I was missing when I was uh coaching in Denmark or or uh even Norway. That that um connection.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that collaborative yes, that collaborative environment, right? I mean it's it's yeah. I I think I was telling you about it before we even recorded the podcast. One of the things, you know, I find myself, I like to get really into what I'm doing, but if I but if I don't spend time around other people, I feel like my ideas just kind of stagnate, right? Because because I don't have anybody to collaborate with. And um, it sounds like that's sort of what you were seeking.
SPEAKER_00That was. And and I I was up in Colorado living with we were four coaches in a swe in a house, right? So we shared a house where we we constantly had ideas, and uh, this was with Brad Burnham and Mark Clouth, uh, which was a fantastic environment to to to learn from. Um so that's what I wanted. And then I uh with with Brad, I met uh Milton Nelms. Um and those ideas started to find Bill Boomer. Uh those ideas started to find their way into my coaching. Uh, and that's what I really wanted. Uh that was in 1996, so that's like 28 years ago. I met MILT.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna get to Milt in the course of this podcast because it's so interesting listening to your story. It makes me feel, you know, you just meet people and you think you realize like these people are are just my people. We've been on an intercept path, you know, like we've been headed towards each other. I mean, um Brad Burnham, uh, who probably doesn't get mentioned very often on this podcast, but when I was a high school senior, I desperately, more than anything else, wanted to go to Bowdoin College and swim for Brad Burnham. And that was a long time before you and I met. So it seemed that would have been maybe our collision point, but I I didn't get in. So things were a bit delayed. I want to tell the story um because now you've arrived in Lund, and I want to say um how how I ended up meeting you there. Um, people that listen to this podcast know that I coached in Denmark for several years. Um, and one of the one of the features that I think is quite distinct um for like the American audience is uh of a Danish swim club is uh they go on a lot of training camps. They do a lot of training camps. And we're talking like when I came to uh Gentofta, um we took two 10-day training camps a year. And um uh Gentofta is also basically based in the richest area of Copenhagen. So these these were luxurious training camps. You know, we were going to um five-star resorts on the beach in Turkey, um, you know, and like eating in these big banquet halls. And uh I was I was somewhat dissatisfied um with that for a training camp environment. I thought it wasn't really it wasn't really, it was like a vacation, but it wasn't really helping um in the way that I thought like that expenditure of resources. And so I started looking for something else to do. And I saw, you know, that an hour's drive essentially from where we were, there was this Swedish center for aquatic research. And um, I think I I reached out to you and you gave me some information about like all the things that would be possible. You have this uh incredible underwater um filming setup, which I I I imagine has only improved since I was last there in 2015. Um and so then I came back to my team and I said, I have great news, everybody. Instead of going to this five-star resort in Turkey, we're going to Sweden. And I still remember the kids on my team, you know, uh, it felt like it rained probably every day that October, and we walked from, because you have this one had a wonderful hotel that was walking distance from the pool, and uh, and we walked, you know, in the rain from the hotel to the pool, and you know, like some of these kids on the team looking at me thinking, like, what has Coach gone mad? You know, why did he decide to do it? And I thought, this is incredible. Like, I I loved it. I loved coming up. Um, I think part of it too was it was nice to just, you know, not not jump on a plane, not do all this extravagant stuff, to just go somewhere, get some cool information, get some data on what was going on with the swimmers, and um have a have an experience that I think, you know, was right in our backyard, but you can't get very many places. Um and I guess I want to use that as a segue to let you talk a little bit about the the Swedish Center for Aquatic Research. The swim brief podcast is brought to you by Chris DeSantis Coaching. Being a coach is isolated. You know that saying that it's lonely at the top? Well, for many coaches, that's reality. Being a coach means everyone has an opinion on what you're doing. It takes work to filter out the noise and make the best decisions. You need to be able to think through plans, ideas, and problems proactively. At Chris DeSantis Coaching, I fill that gap for coaches. I'll help you turn every rocky moment into a slingshot and provide the support you need to be at your best. You deserve to have someone in your corner, and everyone on your team will benefit. If you want an expert to have your back in your coaching career, go to Chris Dcoach.com right now and fill out a contact form. You'll get an hour of my time at no cost to you. You don't have to go it alone any longer. Back to the podcast. So uh how did how did that whole setup come into existence?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so this is probably back in 2010. Uh well, we started working on the cam the camera system. Is is basically Alex Nikitin, who's gonna speak at the conference, um he invented um a race analyzer app that you used with a calculator. Um so so it's it's this is in 1998, probably. 1990, yeah. Uh where we start where I got all gung-ho on this one. So I took that to Sweden and uh started working with Alex uh a lot on that. Um eventually I took over the the app and made an app for the phone instead of instead of having it in a calculator, I made an app for for um for the phone. It didn't work super well. I would say the calculator was just just as fine, but it it was a little easier to use, uh maybe. And um but it that one turned into a camera system at the end. That that was the idea because because we we uh the technique evolved, and uh uh I had some great people around me at the university, yeah, and I had a camera tech guy uh that was into basically uh surveillance cameras. Um that I asked him, could we do this? And he said, Yeah, well, yes, and he had no idea how the work and the time that we would put in to do that. But but um uh so and together with MILT, MILT was also one of the MILT is a Milton Nell Milton Nelson is in Australia, and and um he's also like me super interested in in uh trying to convince not only sports scientists because that that was the main thing with Swedish Center for Aquatic Research, is that we um we want to influence the academic world to take a little bit higher um uh interest in in uh aquatic development.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00Because right now it's sports scientists, and then there is all the other scientists. A sports scientist should pretty much know everything about the body, but there is heart surgeons, there is uh I mean there is people that know tons more. There's astronauts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, there is people that know so much about the body, and and as a sports scientist, you know this part, or like like you just know the whole body into your silo and not get exposed to everything else, right?
SPEAKER_02And you just be working in your little area, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That I what I think like sports scientists mostly I I'm not gonna, but but uh heart rate is super important, lung capacity is super important, but there is so much more, uh and that's what to get that science in so that the sports science will know about it, then you know like the specialists need to take an interest in the aquatic research. So that's what we um uh that basically that's that's how it started, yeah, because we were curious, and that's why we started uh the Swedish Center for Aquatic Research. We invited 20 coaches um to Sweden uh at in 2012 to have the first World Aquatic Development Conference, and that was basically to sit the reason we had that conference was basically to pay for the air flight, like for the flight to get them there. So we could sit together at the table and discuss.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So so that was how the conference started, and that's basically how it is now, too. Right? But the the the the reason to get them to Sweden is To have them meet each other, talk to each other. Now we have uh we have people from 25 different countries coming this year, and all of those people will sit down and talk to all the other like basically you will have four days of access to uh Walter Bolajani uh because he's gonna be there. Like you can go up and you can talk to him and you can share your ideas with somebody like Walter, and and you can talk about it. That's how I think that that that interest will spread, right? And and the the knowledge will be spread.
SPEAKER_02And so I as I understand then the the Swedish Center for Aquatic Research and the World Um Aquatic Development Conference, you know, the the the center obviously you have this um underwater video setup. Um it's also sort of a a rallying organizing uh piece for some sports science. It's also supposed to be located next to a major university in Sweden so that experts outside of the sports science field are right there, right, to be able to interact. Is there uh is that encompassing all that it is, or are we missing anything?
SPEAKER_00No, I think that's I mean, we have teams coming, of course. I mean, we have teams coming in uh for training camps. For training camps uh to come to Lund, and that that has also been refined. Uh, we have people coming from all over the world to be filmed. Um nowadays you can also be filmed in Norway and France and and some other places with the same system, but it's uh it's uh mainly to get people uh if they come to Lund, that's that is to be filmed, and then and then they have a weak training camp at the same time. Yeah, um and it's also a chance for us to have tons of swimmers to look at, like to to see what what are they doing in other countries. I mean, that's uh super interesting to me to see what a stroke looked like and how the development of stroke has looked over the years now. Because you can you can see in all when a coach comes in, you can see how that coach is coaching technique. And that's that's something I that that's something we should talk a lot about at the conference because I think that's it's good that you can see that there is okay. I I can say that is that coach. I can see the style of the swimmers. That's the coach, that's the coaching methodology he's doing. And what I wanted to be is that the swimmers can keep a little bit of their own personality in the swimming without a coach just uh fiddling too much about it, right? Uh I think I think we mess up the personality in the stroke a little bit too much sometimes. And and that's what we see. That's what we see at the Space Center for Aquic Research.
SPEAKER_02You know what I think about? Um sometimes I think about we're we're we're veering into Milt Nelm's territory now. We're we're we're we're going right for it. I mean, I think about Milt as somebody who I admire so much when it comes um to the the form, the movement of uh swimming. And then I think of my favorite author, who's um a guy called uh Nassim Talib. And Talib has this quote, you know, about a lot of successful businessmen essentially are taking credit for teaching birds to fly, which you know, you don't need to teach birds how to fly. And I think sometimes very successful coaches um we are a little bit like claiming that we've taught birds to fly. The swimmers sort of figure something out and we don't even really understand what it is. Uh one of the examples that I bring up all the time when I'm out speaking is, you know, over the course of my career, what has been the most dramatic development in the sport of swimming? It's underwater kicking. A coach did not come up with underwater kicking. No, swimmers did.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Coaches would have like kept on doing it. The flip turn was invented by a swimmer. So the the great technical breakthroughs that come in the sport of swimming come from the athletes. And then the coaches later can take credit for teaching all the rest of the birds to fly. Do you know what I mean? But but the athletes uh, you know, in and I don't mean to take anything away from coaches, coaches have an important role to play as well, but I think we should recognize that um really inside of the athletes and some of that expression that you're talking about, that's where the innovation comes in the sport.
SPEAKER_00Um hundred percent. And that we can go all the way back to the there was a great backstroker in US um 1970s. You know John Neighbor. Yes. So in Europe, we looked at videos of John Neighbor when he was swimming. And that's why all Europeans had to take their pinky fingers first into the water, because on the video, it looks like he takes the p pinky finger first because you don't take note of his rotation. So if you look at what he really does is he actually rotate the pinky finger into the water, but the hand is not rotating, the hand is not rotating, yeah. But all European coaches, probably around the world too, they took that pinky finger, and and I tell you, I hear about that still. That I mean, there is coaches out there that is coaching with the that pink finger is the most important thing in backstroke. And that was from your neighbor.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. They should have just sticked stick to watching Roland uh Mathis. He he had a good uh he had a good form of well. Let's let's talk about the conference for a little bit. Um, because I even want to just give people basic information. Um, because it's still possible to to, as far as I know, to sign up and come, right?
SPEAKER_00For sure. We really want you guys to come. That's uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02So so it's uh January 9th to 12th. As as uh we've said many times on this podcast, it's in Lund, Sweden. I'm now trying to say it the Swedish way instead of Danish Lund. Um and you can get there very easily. Uh, in case you're wondering where the heck that is, you buy and you're from another country, you fly to Copenhagen, you you literally you go downstairs at the airport, and a train takes you to Lund in 20 minutes, 30 minutes?
SPEAKER_0030, 35 minutes, yeah. And then you're in the center of Lund, and then you're in the center.
SPEAKER_02Um and what like who comes to the clinic?
SPEAKER_00So the coaches that come here, it's so it's from learn to swim, it's up to competitive swimming, and it's coaches from all skill levels. Um of course there is a lot of expert coaches, uh, but there's also a lot of coaches that are quite new. Uh you don't have to be uh super coach to be at this conference. That's that's what I mean. All levels and and all questions are accepted because that's that's what that's what the conference is about. One thing that you I suggest is that you're curious. That that's curious coaches, that's pretty much the ones that comps. Um it's a conference where you meet people quite easily. Uh and it's not as big as the largest one. We have about 350 people, but that those are on three tracks now. We included diving this year. Uh so there is about 30, 40 uh diving coaches uh coming, uh, which is quite big for a diving conference. But uh but for uh for uh for a competitive um swimming conference, that's not that big what it is. Um but the coaches and the speakers that come are also the ones that are known for some type of innovative ideas. That's what we're looking for. We're looking for coaches who we hear. We might not have seen them, but we have seen other coaches, guys. You should take a look at this guy because he's super interesting. And that's basically that's how you get in contact with uh uh Jim Powelsic. He's a NASA astronaut and uh and a fantastic, uh fantastic um person. He's a professor in physiology, kinesiologi, uh how do you say kinesiology?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, kinesiology and medicine. Okay. And an astronaut. Don't forget an astronaut.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So I mean people like that are interesting, right? They uh and um and uh Walter Bolgin Bolognani, he is the only he has been coaching the junior national team in Italy for 15 years. Like he's only the juniors, but what happened to the Italian national team is that almost all those unions have gone on to done some fantastic work at the senior level, and that is interesting because we're gonna hear about what do they do with the junior in Italy, and we have not hit heard that, not even in Europe. We don't know what that what is the story about all those great Italians that comes up. It's almost like Florida swimming, right? When they were at their absolute peak, what do they do, right? Yeah, and that's that's how Italy has been, right?
SPEAKER_02And uh and good who else? I mean, uh, we're gonna get to Milt here. We're gonna bring him in as that camera at the end, but who else? There's gonna be a couple other highlights.
SPEAKER_00Portugal's national uh team coach is coming, Aberto de Pinto da Silva. He's the only coach, he has eight swimmers under 22 second long course meters, uh freestylers, right?
SPEAKER_02Wow. Eight eight in in a country of two of 10 million people or so, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I mean that's uh nobody has eight swimmers under 22 seconds except him, right? The the next has two, I think, right? So that's uh what what does he do? He he his planning is special, right? How he planned the season is is really interesting, and how what he does as far as land land work uh with his swimmers. Um we have uh Dean Barker, uh a Canadian living in Sweden. Um he is known for um uh the mythology of coaching um movement, right? So how do we co coach movement and what type of coach are we? So that's a whole but he and he's a professor in in um in physical education. So he he's not a coach, but he has some great ideas about and and that's the swim brief podcast is brought to you by Chris DeSantis Coaching.
SPEAKER_02Are you tired of not competing at your best? I've worked with countless athletes who felt that their mind was limiting them on race day. As a pioneer in the field of positive psychology, I have a unique approach. Instead of fixing what's wrong, I help athletes build an entirely new framework from the ground up, and I do it in as little as 12 weeks. I teach them how to make their active mind something that helps them. The work that I do stays with athletes long after we finish. Those that work with me get permanent results that go beyond their sports career. They not only bust through their current plateau, but learn what to do when the next one comes. If you know an athlete that could benefit from a complete rebuild of their approach, fill out a contact form at Chrisdcoach.com. Let's find out what they're truly capable of. Back to the podcast.
SPEAKER_00So you get that part too, right? It's not only coaches that come and speak, it's also from science, and that's what we want. We want to share the absolute latest in move this year, it will be about movement. A lot of the things that uh we're gonna talk about is movement. How do we teach movement? Why is movement, and um how do we how do we see movement? Yeah, I mean, there that's people talk about horse whispers, right? And and that's uh that's just people that can see movement in a really, really good way. They also can interconnect with the uh with the swimmer or horse, for that matter, in a really good way. Uh, but they can see the movement, they can they can uh anticipate what's next. And that's so that's what we're gonna talk about a lot at the conference.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, I I I I just want to echo that point about sort of anticipating and and seeing movement. I'm reminded of a story. Um, I read this in the New York Times, so a major U.S. newspaper decided uh to do an article on uh an amazing swim coach we have in the U.S., uh Jim Steen, who coached at Kenyon College and you know, I think won either 30 or close to 30 straight Division III national titles. Um and it was just like an aside that a normal person reading an article about him might miss, but the reporters, you know, talking about like interviewing Steen poolside while practice is about to go on, and like there's an assistant coach standing next to him, he's watching the athletes do relay starts, and there's there's an athlete standing on the block, and in the middle of giving an interview answer, he just turns to his assistant, he says, He's gonna fall start. And then sure enough, the swimmer, you know, jumps early off the block, and the reporter's kind of left stunned. Like, how did he know that was about to happen? But he's he could see, you know, he could anticipate just the way that the athlete was moving before the the event even happened, that all of a sudden, you know, that was that was what was likely to follow next. And I think, you know, that intuition, um I was having another conversation with a with a coach about this recently. Uh, I think as as a coach, you go through, at least I'm hoping you go through this process. I'm hoping to come out on the other side of it. But, you know, when you start coaching, and I think I hear a little bit of this in your story too, like if I look back to when when did I have the most confidence in my knowledge as a coach? I think I was about 25 years old. I thought that I was the smartest coach in the entire world. I knew everything and I had it all figured out. And ever since then, my confidence, you know, like my knowledge has gone up and my confidence has gone down. But I think that you come out the other side of it. Uh you start to. I can start to feel to be able to trust my intuition, but it's actually like I really can trust my intuition instead of it just being this kind of ignorant confidence that I had when I was 25. I'm starting to, as I get a little bit older, you know, notice those patterns in things and see like what's the next step. And um I think I've good that's that's a good way of seguing into um Milt Nelms because among his many other wonderful qualities, I I think he's somebody who has honed his intuition about so many things. Um and it's very interesting because you know you're talking about all this academic stuff. Uh Milt is not a traditional academic figure, right? He's not he's not a PhD that has uh spent uh his life publishing papers, and yet in many ways he is a very academic person. He's a very curious person. He's been uh somebody that is endlessly sort of crying, trying to iterate and discover um new stuff, share knowledge, uh, go around all that stuff. So uh talk a little bit more specifically about um Milt, some of his involvement and uh and everything else.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so me and Milt started working way back, like I like I said, 27 years ago since we met in in Colorado Springs um uh at a conference with Bill Boomer. So Bill Boomer is not to forget when it when it comes to Milton Nelms, uh you have to talk about Bill Boomer first. Uh Division III coach, uh that was just fantastic.
SPEAKER_02Uh we talked about a coach that that started as a basically a with a phys ed background that just got into swimming. When you say sometimes it goes amazingly, I think you're talking about Bill Boomer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, there's there is those stories, there is there is both ways, but uh that was an amazing story. He he came in from I think he was a soccer coach uh from the start, and he got in thrown in at um at competitive swimming. But at Milt uh started to hang out with Bill, I think, in 1993. Um Milt's background was also coaching, but he was also super curious. I mean, that was as you said, uh Book Worm. That's uh right. He he read uh a lot of academic stuff, but he never he never went that path. He he um he coached um at Phillips 66.
SPEAKER_02In Oklahoma, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in Oklahoma, and he also had um a connection in Norway with Phillips in in Norway, so he came over and spoke at their um at their swimming club in Stavanger. But we met in '97, and and we we uh started talking uh right away and about pretty much in the same direction. Uh where we wanted I already knew a little bit of his work and Bill's work from Brad Burnham. Brad who had met many times and was the one so his he was his was my ticket to to uh Milt. Um and there is so many swimmers uh that has should thank Milt.
SPEAKER_02Uh uh for some of them know it and some of them don't.
SPEAKER_00Some of them know it, some of them don't. Uh that that's basically how it is. And and he hasn't he has not made any books or anything like that. He did some videos with uh with Bill, but that's it. There is no published work from him. And and I really I uh tried to get him to write something for for uh 15, 20 years now, and I hope that that one is that there is a something coming out of it soon.
SPEAKER_02Um and if you leave this podcast and you Google Milt Nelson and you try to find something, you will find almost nothing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like it's like as if he doesn't exist on the internet, more or less.
SPEAKER_00But yes, he has done work with at least 20, 30 Olympic, uh US Olympic swimmers, and as many uh from foreign countries, right? So it's not not just US. He has worked with uh an enormous amount of athletes that are that just benefit from from him pulling out the the talent. Basically, he's uh I would say he's uh coach that brings out talent. Uh some swimmers uh they they are super fast uh but just from the engine, right? From heart and lungs. And when they get the addition of MELT's work, uh just to find their uh Like balance and their uh that they can relax, their breathing, their way of feeling the water that takes them to the next level, and that makes them an Olympic athlete. Um and he also works with a lot of coaches, right? So he goes around talking, he was in US just now and did a tour. Um going around to see all these coaches, and then fantastic opportunity if you have a chance uh to meet him or get him to a club. That's that's uh opportunity that you shouldn't miss.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I always treasure. I mean, I met him uh later. Um I actually think I probably met him thanks to you. I had gotten uh laid off from my job at Gentofta, and I was helping a little bit with uh Farum uh swim club, and I he was lit, you know, he literally was stood on the deck, he was wearing a speedo, he's wearing a brief and his hat that he's uh very well known for, and he was just watching the swim meet. And, you know, one of my co-coaches sort of looked at me and elbowed me in the ribs, and he said, I think that's Milton Elms. And I said, Well, it's now or never. I I've been wanting to talk to this guy, you know, this mysterious guy forever. Um, I got to go up and introduce myself. Um, and so I went up and uh talked to him. It turns out he he did know about me because I've been writing and doing some other things like this uh about swimming for a long time. And we started talking. And uh it's still the story I always tell here in my household too is that um, you know, from that point forward, he would he would just call me at at random. And um my wife said, like, it's hard to tell that you were on the phone because you didn't say anything. Milt would just start talking, and I would think, I want to listen to every inch of this, and I'm never going to cut him off. I'm gonna listen as long as he's willing to talk. Um, and we'd have these, you know, like two-hour phone conversations where where I'd say something for maybe a couple minutes, and then the other 118 minutes, I was just listening and trying to process everything that was coming out of his mouth. Um, and I'm still trying to process some of it all the years later.
SPEAKER_00That's fantastic. I had one of those experiences in in Stavanger when we just met. This is probably in '98, then '99, where I took I knew he wasn't Stavanger, so and he called me and they said, Well, I'm in Stavanger. Could you come up? And I jumped on the plane and uh got Stavanger. Then we drove around for probably six, seven hours in the car. Yes, in Stavanger. We had to fill up, we had to fill up the car because we spent so many, so much gas. And and it took me seven hours to realize that he didn't find his hotel. So that but it was one of the greatest conversations I ever had. But it's at five o'clock in the morning, I realized, hmm, he has no idea where his hotel is. So that's why we're still driving.
SPEAKER_02Amazing. Well, I'm so looking forward to this. And even listening to you talk about who's going to be there, it's gonna be a ripe recruiting ground for this podcast. I'm gonna be uh I'm gonna be pressing people, signing them up for slots, I think, out of the comments.
SPEAKER_00I really hope so. We will uh of course uh do something extra for you as far as uh wow. That was unplanned, by the way. I didn't know about that. But um, but um I will say there is a lot of fantastic for for the diving conference. Uh we I mean we have Greg Luganis.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right? So there is so there is a lot of speakers on Learn to Swim. We have from Australia, uh Ruth Smith. I mean, there is a lot of people, and Milt is coming, of course. Milt now Milton Nelms will be there. Um so don't miss the opportunity. I'm I'm super thankful for for being on here, but but I I think you guys will be um super excited if you're here, but you can also be there they're digital. I mean we have a digital opportunity, but I encourage you guys to try to come to Sweden. It's it's it's a fantastic event. I think so.
SPEAKER_02Come hang out with me. I'll uh you know, as a bonus, as a bonus to listeners of this podcast, if you're a listener of this podcast and you come, okay, I will take you on a little tour of Copenhagen after the after the clinic, if you want. Because I'm hanging around for another couple days, and I have been coming to Denmark my entire life since I was born, and I will never get tired of showing people around. Um because I'm so proud of uh I'm so proud of that part of my heritage, and I find it just fantastic. I can't come there enough. Um so if people want to sign up for it, they go, what is it, W A D C dot S E? Yes, yes, yeah, and I'll I'll I'll include some links um with this podcast as well.
SPEAKER_00Um, the full program is not published, so all speakers are set, and um I'm so looking forward to hearing you speak, Chris. That that will be uh super interesting. Uh really looking forward to that one.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, I'm practicing hard as I told you before we started recording. I want to nail this one. I want to do a good job um when I come up there. So I'm very excited as well. Thank you for your time. Thanks for being willing to discuss all this uh with me. We'll put this up just before uh the holiday here in the US. And uh I'm really looking forward to seeing you in in January in Lund.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that would be fantastic. Thanks.
SPEAKER_02Thank you everybody for listening. If you want to contact me, swimbriefpodcast at gmail.com, you could go to christycoach.com and fill out a contact form. Or if you really must, you can go on Instagram at Christy underscore coach and write me there. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you guys again next week.